PRS OWNS the TONEWOOD DEBATE (PAUL vs THE INTERNET)
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2024
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Paul Reed Smith live at Chicago Music Exchange - PAUL VS THE INTERNET - In his own words, the legendary PAUL REED SMITH discusses the guitar tonewood debate (which in my opinion was never a debate). Paul talks about trusting your EXPERIENCE, the role of EXPERTS, and much more in guitar building today.
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Wow, the quality of his arguments for solid-body tonewood never get any better do they ?
Did he really characterize the anti-tonewood argument like this ?: Guitars made of balsa wood, rubber nut, rubber bridge, strings are dead, covered in vaseline - and the only thing that will make any difference is the pickup.
No one has ever argued that ... ever.
And then of course there's "violins". Geez.
You do wonder whether the people sitting there are thinking "I know he makes great guitars. But shouldn't he have much better arguments for tonewood if it's really important ?"
Smith is really hard for me to listen to, not sure why maybe its his seemingly opinionated megalomaniac disposition, that out of the way, now, why would you spend that much time explaining tone wood to 35 people, l would have liked him to put to bed a light weight guitar comparison to heavy weight instrument, maybe add grain density and why older instruments develop a character/personality, maybe even the REAL tone reasoning difference between bolt on to through neck construction. Yes a nice guitar is a nice guitar but compared to what?
Its only important for acoustic instruments, not for anything thats amplified with electrics
I’m a PRS fan but check out the video from RUclipsr Jim Lill about testing each component in an electric guitar (“Tested: Whre Does the Tone Come From in an Electric Guitar”). His results are jaw dropping. I didn’t want to believe just like I don’t like how tune amps are dying. I still love my custom 24.
I find it funny that hollowbody electrics are made out of plywood. No matter what the price
The problem is the examples he uses are so exaggerated and ridiculous that it makes his argument less realistic. Tonewoods do not change the sound of an electric guitar in any significant way. It does matter though as far as weight and feel and look. He needs to admit those facts and then it’d end the debate and still justify why using a tonewood has a purpose
He keeps comparing electric guitars to acoustic instruments. Violins are a favourite example of his. And yet electric violins are often made out of carbon fibre and often don't even have bodies, just outlines so that players can play them in the traditional way. The only wood they have is either the whole neck and fingerboard, or just the fingerboard because of player feel. Paul is a good luthier and a successful businessman, but still believing crappy myths.
Paul makes great guitars and has an eye for detail, but that doesn't make him immune to unsubstantiated beliefs. Outside of maintaining the stability of the hardware, allowing it to let the string move uninhibited, there's zero correlation between the species of wood and the tone in an electric guitar. The vibration of a metal string in a magnetic field induces a small charge, which is filtered into the EQ of the pickup, through the controls (with varying degrees of tolerances and values), before going to the amp. There does not exist one study that shows wood having an objective EQ curve that can be applied to electric guitars across the board. That's because only metal (and high frequency signals) can induce a signal through a pickup. It's basic electrical engineering and physics. It's the same laws that explain why you can't use nylon strings on an electric. Even an unpotted pickup is just the sound of the materials inside the pickup rattling around (which is roughly how normal microphones work). It can all be easily explained with science. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Objective, measurable evidence; not anecdotes appealing to authority, like what Paul is doing.
IDC what ANYONE says about tone wood making a difference in the sound of an electric guitar. It does not. Acoustic SURE electric not a bit.
If you don't care about what anyone says I guess there is no debate, this is the problem. Thanks for watching
I think tones woods do matter but more with acoustics. Notice how he keeps talking acoustic instruments in his examples. Does it matter on electrics? Yes. To the same degree as acoustics? No.
And you could argue that the tonewood on an electric is far less important than the choice of pots or pickups (and probably the nut and bridge). Tonewood on electics, especially solidbodies, accounts for a negligible (or even non-existent) difference in ultimate sound. Paul just based his business around convincing people that it matters a lot.
I agree with you. Everything on a guitar contributes a percentage to the sound. To me it all comes down to what inspires you to play above it all.
Playing acoustics influenced my electric guitar playing more than almost any single factor. It all matters.
@@PlayandTradeGuitars”I played acoustic and the town wood from the acoustic guitar carried over to my electrics by making a chain link from the cork to my nose so I can sniff while shredding”
He's drinking to much of his own Coolaid.
*too
How about that cardboard guitar Billy Gibbons have? That sounds good.
Life long guitarist opinion. Sales pitch. Practice make perfect. Gear makes "BROKE". Be a musician. PRACTICE!!!!!
It is very much about the guitarist, correct - but a breathtaking instrument always helps - they're out there, and Paul is a true craftsman
Man who sells expensive wood says that expensive wood is very important.
Man who could get bigger market share, sell more guitars if he could make guitars with cheaper wood says the quality would suffer and so he can't cut the costs.
@@walterppk1989 you’ve not heard of SE then?
Yep its a huge selling point for prs, its also a load of bullcrap.
@@walterppk1989wrong. Lmfao.
Better wood is good, it's just not "tone" wood.
15 minutes in and no live demonstration to prove how his tonewoods are better. He is in a shop full of guitars and amps. It could easily be done to prove his point. It’s all marketing BS
Wood makes some difference, true...but it's also overblown how MUCH difference it makes, esp. when someone is running heavy distortion and lots of FX. I would bet you the price of a PRS that, blindfolded, not one person in that room (incl. Mr. Smith) could tell which guitar was, say, a Harley Benton and a PRS, given the same appointments (humbuckers, fixed or floating bridge, etc.). They might sound a bit DIFFERENT, but you could not say "oh, that one has the more high-end tonewood". PRS are real pretty and nicely made, but this rant is basically "justify the $$".
Agree!! I own 2 PRS Custom's (USA Core 22&24) but I own a lot of other guitars - even had 2 PRS SE Customs...most recently a 24:08 and they were nice looking nice sounding guitars. They weren't as good as my USA Core ones - but in a band mix they'd sound close enough that nobody could care or tell...and I bet if I had have swapped the Core pups out with the SE that the SE's would sound slightly better. What I do find with the Core ones (mine are always bought used as that's the way to make a very expensive guitar affordable ...like half new price) is that they look and feel way better than the cheaper SE imports. Obvously you can see the higher grade one piece body and necks..and real abalone inlays vs white plastic etc. As much as a fan of Core line PRS guitars I am - I still think their new prices are a rip off...hence why i'd never even consider paying for one new. That all said I have several Fenders and Gibsons etc and my PRS's are my fave 2 guitars in my collection....but its nothing to do with "tonewoods" more feel and aesthetic etc
@@1madaxemanBrother if you put the new tuning pegs on the increase in butteryness in the vowel sound will make al the difference
Hilarious how CME turned the Les Paul wall into the PRS wall for his visit lol.
Why wouldn't you if you're hosting the CEO and founder of the company coming to speak. It shows respect and you are featuring the very reason your having him come to speak His product and examples of his companies work.
@@vedder10 I don’t disagree just still found it funny as that wall has been dubbed The Les Paul wall & not by me. I’m not a huge fan of PRS so I can’t even tell you where they normally reside but I think they’re usually on the back wall by the couch & across from the sound booths.
Lost me at the violin analogy.....SMH.
One only needs to knock on a few different pieces of wood to realize that they all sound different. Is it a dramatic difference ?.. No... In a solid body guitar, the weight of the wood is just as important as the resonance...
When you do frequency response graphs, tonewood for *solid body electrics* makes very little to no difference in the output, vs the amplifer (last part of the sound chain), and pickups. That's objective reality, not a belief based by price prompting (more $$=better) and false equivalence between a hollow violin body and a slab of swamp ash.
You make electric guitar sound so magical and fun. Common! You're forgetting how many factors go into the vibration of the string before it ever gets to the amplifier
The first thing I’m trying to understand here is was this ALL about the question at hand? Was this a momentary aside or simple response to a question in a much large field of topics and free-wheeling thoughts, that became a much longer-winded lecture? Is this what these people came here to see or here?
I assume he’s seen the “does ‘tonewood’ matter” debate and how polarizing it is. Whether anyone buys that idea or not, people DO continue to buy PRS guitars regardless of whether they believe or don’t believe. Also people who believe every word resoundingly may also be people that may not be able to buy his guitars (or at least the ones they REALLY want).
Ok, so he shared his thoughts. Great. I appreciate that he did. I appreciate his passion for his guitars and his perspectives. There are some great PRS guitars out there, and I’m glad those options exist for us as a players… provided we can afford them.
I wondered the same thing. The way he reacts to the tonewoods question leads me to believe this wasn't even his elephant-in-the-room (Silver Sky?) topic.
Right now the weirdest thing for me is owning a hard tail for the first time in like 4 years… it’s so strange to hear a guitar that doesn’t have a tremolo, resonates so different.
Absolutely true. Thanks for watching
Jim Lill took wood out of the equation, just strings and a pickup. Jack White took almost all the wood out. Still sounded like a guitar.
Whether it does affect tone or not is so irrelevant to the end use it is pointless to be having this argument over and over and over again. The degree just the wood alters the sound the pickups deliver to whatever it is sent to will never be discerned live or in a mix.
Time better spent would be to practice playing.
And he replaced the wood with two massive tables built out of wood and metal.
Snake oil sales pitch hasn’t changed in 100’s of years
Ohhh yes it has now it reaches the whole world in milliseconds, l wonder if he could kill his own business with more air time 🤡
You're the third unoriginal person to use "Snake Oil"
@@PlayandTradeGuitars We'll stop using the phrase when some science behind the claims can be tested and confirmed, which they have not.
Paul is strawmanning the argument. No one said it was the pickup and the pedal. No one plays a guitar full of water or with rubber nuts either. With everything being the same, people don’t believe the species of the wood makes much a difference.
Part 2?
Looks like they took down the Les Pauls down for one day 😮
Wanted guitars that are in tune & stay in tune. That's not Gibson.
If wood made no difference, all guitars of the same model would sound within a few percentages of each other, and that is not the case! Anyone who has unpacked many guitars of the same model, knows that. But to each his own. If you can't hear the difference, then you have saved yourself many thousands of dollars. I have had 4 models of the same guitar, all setup by me (a professional) and they don't sound the same. imho
The same model played just having been unpacked that certainly might be true.
Now do a professional setup on each and you’ll notice they all sound nearly the same.
That couple of 64ths difference in the pickup height mattered. That intonation mattered. That string height mattered. That fret level and neck Bow affected the playability. Even the tolerance and impedance of the electronics installed in it mattered.
The exact tree and wood they were made of, however, almost not measurable.
@whothehedoyouthinkiam7662 the only way you could possibly believe what you appear to believe is if you think that the only things that matter in a solid-body guitar are the pickups and the wood.
Almost everyone can hear the common differences between same-model guitars in my experience. So it's got nothing to do with hearing. They just don't all conclude that "it must be the wood" as you seem to (or the pickups).
@@genespliced I was talking about playing them after setup. Not as soon as they were unpacked. I do agree that all those things matter. That is why I am so precise in my setups.
@@What11235 ok. That wasn’t clear in your post. I’ve done quite literally 1000’s of setups as well. And in guitars of the same year and model, once they are properly setup, the difference is negligible.
What I have found, however, is that when there is a guitar unicorn in the “group of sames” that for whatever reason stands out above the rest in sound, in almost every case it can be traced to the slight differences in the electronics. Those few ohms difference throughout the circuit can really add mojo.
Try going through the ones you find that you like versus the ones you don’t with a meter and scope and identify what values you like or don’t about the circuits. Check the individual components, the dc resistances and the overall impedance. You’ll probably, like I did, discover over time that what really you like for each guitar of a given model that you examine is actually in the differences in electronics.
In saying this, I’m specifically talking about the same year guitar of the same model.
Different years of the same model, and especially so in used ones, can vary .. and sometimes quite dramatically.
That difference can be traced to environment exposures of the individual instruments. The varying humidity, travel, temperatures, and the literal blood, sweat and tears on it…
Even to the not-so-careful or experienced techs that once cleaned a fret with steel wool and then tried to get the shavings off the pickup with another magnet and messed with the polarities of the pole pieces.
And for those who don’t know - if you also lean your guitar on a combo amp or speaker cabinet, changes will quite immediately occur from exposure to the magnetic fields surrounding speakers and electronics, in your pickup magnets and pole pieces that will affect the tone!
If you love your guitar… Don’t do that! Really! Don’t do that!
@@genespliced I've been leaning my guitars on cabs for years, and never noticed a change in tone.
Only acoustics guitars are affected at a meaningful level by type of tonewood. Solid body electric guitars can be made out of just about any wood and sound fine. I know an engineer "amature" guitar builder who made a strat out of plywood and if he didnt tell me it was made of plywood I would never know. It's the craftsmanship and build quality that counts. Build it right and it will sound good. this is all Magic tonewood BS. Paul likes to sell exotic wood guitars and so people with a lot of disposable income buy them so they can show it off to their friends.
Kramer was famous for their plywood guitars back in the 80s
I completely disagree with your first statement. Maybe they'd sound fine, but great or "magic" is another story. It all works together. How proud will you be of your plywood guitar?? This is an art and a craft as much as anything. If you don't want to spend a lot, buy an SE - they're incredible
Ok. I owned a PRS Custom 24 from 1999 to 2022. GREAT guitar. Sold to help one of my daughters. It had a poly finish. Have not played any new ones with Nitro that sound better! Great yeah but not like mine. Except one; my friends 1997. His is better. My point; Paul changed tuners in 1998 to 14:1 small housing Schaller tuners to save weight and improve tone. The older one has large 12:1 backed tuners so more weight less sustain! Actually no difference. Paul is like Leo Fender, chasing something when he did not need to. Improving just to change without improving. Paul’s V 12 finishes. Did not wear well. Now plastic tuner buttons? Hmm they ARE less costly on their end right? Look Paul knows a lot, he is right about stuff but to what extent? Sustain is important but NOT eveything! Put a tele pickup in a Les Paul. It will NOT sound like a Tele. Paul is marketing and I will say he believes in his point but is still in business to make money. Some of his points are overhyped. I love his stuff! Still I replaced my PRS last year with a Faded ‘50’s Gibson Les Paul Std. ATE my PRS! The TONE!! Band loved it! Local pros said it was better than my PRS was. Point is ignore hype; how does a guitar sound to YOU! That and how it feels!
For electric guitars the pickups, pedals, amps, and cabinets make a difference, wood only makes a difference for acoustic/classical/spanish guitars, NOT for electric guitars. (Cant blame paul pretty expensive woods are a huge selling point for his company.... But he is full of crap though 😂👍.
Guy is nauseating.. Gibson matched mahogany with maple cap long before he even knew what a guitar was.
True, but they did that because they also believed the woods mattered. They even used the paint and binding before they offered bursts to hide the maple cap from prying eyes at Fender (even though you could have just removed the pickups and look for yourself.)
They may be great guitars,,but they are still waaayyy overpriced... why make something that 80% of people can never afford to buy ?
Check out SE line - they're awesome
They are fantastic instruments made by skilled people who have both good pay and good working conditions; quality was never cheap!
Are they actually? Gibson and Fender make guitars costing as much or more than a US PRS. So why aren't you saying they are overpriced of they cost even more? Why aren't you asking why does Gibson or Fender make guitars 80% of people could never afford?
Apparently there is a market for these guitars. People buy 10-20k HD motorcycles fairly often. Heck the average dirtbike these days will cost 10-12k. If music is your hobby 4k for a guitar really ain't that much compared to other hobbies. Idk sure they cost a bit, but PRS has the S2 line and the SE line too... really getting tired of the dentist and lawyers guitar crap because honestly, by that logic, so is Gibson and Fender.
BTW I own an American CE. Just got an excellent condition Core Custom 24 used, I have a few SE line guitars too. I'm no lawyer or doctor. I'm a simple American cnc machinist that is nowhere close to rich. Heck I'm barely if even middle of the middle class.
You want something you work hard and make it happen.
Same for other industries like cars. They are plenty Asian companies that can bring you joy
I used to think tonewood was a myth, but then I got an epiphone les paul and it is just so resonant and sustains forever when played acoustically when compared to my strat. Maybe the wood matter, or at least the neck construction
The latter. Bolt-on neck guitars vibrate/resonate differently than guitars with glued necks. Also Strats have flat neck angles while SGs and LPs have a sharper neck angle, which also changes how strings vibrate (seemingly adding tension). But again, we're just talking playing the guitars acoustically, a Strat or a Tele doesn't sound so twangy acoustically as they do electrified for example.
@manofthepeople2165 why would you assume that the acoustic sound is due to the solid body wood ? If your Epiphone LP sustains "forever", that is only possible if vibrations remain in the strings. You can't cheat the Conservation of Energy Law. If the strings excite the body to vibrate at a particular frequency then the strings are no longer vibrating at that frequency. So sustain must be reduced at that frequency. A truly "resonant" solid-body guitar is one where the vibrations remain almost totally in the strings. That's what you are hearing - acoustic sound waves from the strings.
@@SG710Yep...bass players know, go with a fender for that bolt-on neck if you want that fast attack/fast decay...go with a rickenbacker if you want ringing sustain
@@vw9659 because the string vibration makes the bridge vibrate which transfers the vibration to the body. When I play, I can feel the guitar vibrating against my body.
@manofthepeople2165 have you ever measured bridge admittance or actual guitar body vibration or actual string vibrations ? The rigid guitar bridges on solid-body guitars do not transfer very much string vibration energy to the body. They mostly reflect it back up the string, to be seen by the pickups. That has been shown in all direct measurements of real solid body guitars (Les Pauls, strats, teles, etc). Some lose a little more than others - to vibrate various structures in the guitar. But none lose much (compared for example to acoustic guitars, which must transfer that energy to the thin, easily vibrated body and air cavity in order to be heard).
The high sensitivity of our skin mechanoreceptors (the skin organs that allow us to feel vibrations) leads some players like you to greatly over-estimate actual measured guitar body vibrations (often influenced by the false thinking behind the commonly heard "transfer of vibrations to the body" as a desirable aspect of a good solid-body guitar; instead of the physics nonsense that it is).
If the body vibrated as much as you think it does, sustain would be very poor - the exact opposite of a "resonant" guitar. See the Conservation of Energy Law. If your Epiphone is really a very resonant guitar, that's because almost all vibrations are remaining in the strings, to be seen by the pickups. If instead the body is vibrating more than other guitars, that can only be because the strings are vibrating less - so not what most people would think of as TRULY "resonant".
But the acoustic sound from that guitar you hear is mostly the acoustic sound waves direct from the strings. And if that sound is more resonant than that of other guitars, then the guitar is indeed more resonant (regardless of your misjudgments of the real extent of its body vibrations).
Waaa, waaa, waa-waa, waa, WAAAAA! Show us your data.
If tone wood doesnt matter then you need a plastic or metal guitar. Those will sound great to your ear and be cheaper to buy. I will stick to my preferences of good tone woods.
One word...Steinberger.
people actually made guitars out of anything you can think about, and they sound pretty much the same. acoustically - sure, there is a difference. plugged in? you couldn't tell a difference if you listened to a recording of the guitar
Ever heard of Danelectro?
Says the man who ripped off the most famous guitar in the world, the Stratocaster.
No Stratocasters are flat as a pancake. PRS mostly have a real carved maple top. John Mayer asked him to make him a guitar, he ðid. Paul is a luthier. Who is Fender's luthier?
It's the same with religions, if you believe their gods exist, they exist, if you don't believe, they don't exist. I am an agnostic, I don't care.
I like how, in these comments, they prove Paul right. The whole point of this was to remind that audience that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. Of course he's trying to sell you something, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing. You can love/hate him, and love/hate his guitars, but the central point is that you should listen to your own yourself, not take what random forums say as gospel.
And everyone in the comments prove the point. Tbh I find his videos funny as hell. He does provoke, offer good advice and have fun with the audience.
If wood doesn't matter, then why does a maple cap on a Les Paul make the guitar sound different than a solid mahogany Les Paul? Why do Swamp Ash Strats sound different than Alder ones? Ta[p and ld piece of dried out timber and it resonates a great deal more than a green piece of new timber. Trying to convince ignorant people is a waste of time. Go buy a piece of shit plastic guitar. Make music on it if it makes you happy then so be it but claiming a niece quality timber in guitars don't make a difference is just plain incorrect. I'm guessing they're the same people that say amp modellers have replaced a real tube amplifier becaue thgey sound just as good.
You're making the assumption that the maple cap is the thing that "makes the guitar sound different'. Could just as easily be string type; pickup type, one les Paul is chambered the other is not. Same for the alder, minus the chambering.
You're making sense and the anti-tonewood police don't like that!
Agreed 👍
I don't even acknowledge the loser haters anymore. Sad that they're now everywhere.....