Spirit shroud is a trap in D&D 5e!
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My Pleasure Kobold!
I know is not idial, but i really like my wizard upcasting spiritual shroud and Scorching Ray, i understand the virtual problems being mele, even if being able to cast shield and absorb elements, give me a big resileance. But some times i jsut want to see big numbers against a big bad evil guy. Some times is what all of us need, really big numbers.
I'd say it's a build that capitalizes on multiple attacks, say with polearm master and shiilealeh works for a nice 4d8 consistently perturn
Thanks i forgot were i first seen spirit shroud since i'll need it for a homebrew shark monster that regenerates so have no clue on preventing its regen and i'm a melee character.
I still personally like spirit shroud, but yes I understand it's situational. In my game, I have two players that are using it extraordinarily well together. I have an eldritch knight who uses spirit shroud and has 3 attacks, and I have a cleric who casts Holy Weapon on the Eldritch Knight. And my stupid DM-self gave had already given the EK a crystal longsword. The cleric casts word of radiance for 3d6 damage on the target(s) and then casts Holy weapon on our fighter, the fighter runs up to the big strong guy and keeps him pinned there with Spirit Shroud while hitting him for a total of 5d8 + 5 damage per hit, then action surges for another flurry of attacks for a total of 30d8+30 turn 1. It's great damage turn 1 and then the cleric gets their leveled spell they can cast turn 2 and on.
And that's not even counting the other team members who are still freed up to help each other!
My multiclassed cleric/monk in a recent campaign used Spirit Shroud relatively frequently, since he usually made three or four attacks per turn. The spell's damage was still only decent but better than for a paladin! The reason I kept it, though, was because that campaign's party also had a frontline cleric who was very fond of Spirit Guardians. Because they're different effects, the movement penalties from Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud stack - and, as it turns out, halving speed and then reducing it by another 10 feet absolutely _annihilates_ enemy mobility. Was wonderful fun to lock down opponents, especially since both characters were dwarves; we got to see the shoe of being slower than everyone else very much on the other foot!
Gotta love your DM for allowing Spirit Shroud for your cleric (or at least I don't think they get it, raw), that sounds like a proper blessing for a monk!
@@kukinisVO No, it is a cleric spell RAW! Just rarely gets used by them, considering that Spirit Guardians is just better in almost every situation.
@@Existential_Tempest Cool! Never noticed, huh, what a curious addition to clerics... but I'm glad someone found a good use of it ;)
If only you could cast this spell on another creature, imagine being able to cast it on a Barbarian and letting them loose on some enimies giving them some magical damage and the enemies aren't able to run away as easily, if only...
This gives me an idea for a sorcerer getting a meta magic ability based on changing the targeting system of spells
@@generalkindle3308Doesn't work. Only metamagic that changes tartets requires spell to have something other than range self... That would be twinned spell.
@@nathanskinner423 Sounds like they were talking about a potential homebrew idea
@@nathanskinner423 I didn't said that already exist one option. I was giving a idea for a NEW metamagic.
@@adriel8498 I like the idea, there's probably a reason why it doesn't exist tho. This also seems like a very mechanical change, I usually only like homebrew for flavor purposes.
My DM runs RoT and had us fight against a dragon and a cleric. My spirit shroud stopped him from reviving the dragon 2 times. It was worth it. In another fight I didn't use spirit shroud and the enemies who were a cleric, wizard, and a dragon paladin kept reviving each other. worst mistake of my life, basically led to a wipe. (The DM rolled death saves for important baddies. By reviving, I mean heal to get up.)
What is RoT?
@@soMeRandoM670 RIse of Tiamat
Doesn't Revivify bring them back at 1? I'd assume someone is your party can do 1 damage before it comes back around to their turn.
Was there nobody around that could hit the downed creature twice?
RoT does encourage the DM to homebrew some mean encounters at a given point.
spirit shroud + scorching ray is one of my favorite combos, with high level spell slots the bust damage can get pretty nasty
Especially if your DM lets you play with spell points instead of spell slots!
I'm a fan of Spirit Shroud + Eldritch Blast. It's a better Hex if you don't mind getting into melee range, and if you've gone the sorlock route, getting 4/6/8 beams adds up quickly.
Yeah, I was looking at Spirit Shroud as a viable way to run a Celestial Warlock. Gotta buff defenses for being so close to battle but could be fun
You can repelling blast the enemy away then retreat
@@lucaslepesteur7846
Yeah, the last beam with Repelling Blast and Lance of Lethargy is pretty good - you can usually just back up at that point and you're safe.
I was thinking about doing exactly this.
Hell. Go hexblade. Give the sword prof a fat L. And just use the armor prof and spam eldritch blast in melee range with the gunner feat. Tadah, a instant (11+1d10+2d8)x4. For a whopping 102 dmg every turn. If you wanna be more noxious, just take 2 lvl's hexblade. And everything else lore bard. Now you can get (11+1d10+4d8)x4 for 138 avg dmg per turn. For a 8th lvl slot. Add spiritual weapon and at round 3 you add an additional (11+7d8) putting the new total on 180 avg. Sustained for the next 7 rounds
I think that -10ft movement is situationally useful, since it helps you keep enemies away from team members at least for a little bit.
I imagine stacking move speed reduction with other sources has some value. Unless I’m missing some rule of them not stacking.
You could stack it with Ray of Frost for another -10ft of movement. Can be really good for locking down enemies and acting as a pseudotank
I'd say this spell is best used by Bladesinger Wizards. They get it earlier than paladins, can maximize the damage via Extra Attack and, when combine with Booming Blade, can make for a very good lockdown combo.
Also, the ability to choose between 3 damage types makes it really flexible and still effective against monsters that might have resistance or immunity to radiant damage.
Is it worse than Spirit Guardians? Sure, but not every spell in the game has to be the best at what they do. Some can just cover a certain niche.
I thought of it, too, but the problem is, they are wizards, with so many powerful options that this one kinda pales... they are the best users of the spell (well, maybe not, maybe melee-locks are better because more 5th level slots), but that doesn't mean the spell is the best for them
@@limaTheNoob not every character has to be optimised AF with the best spells available. Sometimes you can just have fun with a spell you like, even if it's not the best choice
@@Guille2033 Right, you can also cast Witch Bolt if you find that more fun. Those are different things. I hate summons myself, I cannot bring myself to enjoy them so I never use them, but that doesn't change the fact that they are simply better...
@@limaTheNoob yeah and I agree, there are spells that are objectively better than others when it comes to deal damage, control the battlefield, etc
But DnD is a game about fun, not just pumping the biggest dmg numbers (and hey, if that's your way of having fun that's ok too)
@@Guille2033 True, that's true. I just find it frustrating that you gotta chose between fun and optimal so often in DnD. Options are so unbalanced it hurts :(
It's a separate source of stackable speed reduction, can be combined with slasher for 20ft move speed reduction and ways of knocking targets prone i.e. Shield master, shove, trip, stormy water (oath of the open sea) to lock down dangerous enemies. Really think that should be it's main selling point for a frontline class, looking at it from mainly a damage perspective undersells it's utility, and if you know you're going up against enemies that have healing capabilities( maybe your enemies are smart enough to have diverse team compositions) you can just prep it when you need it.
And the one advantage it has over spirit guardians is that the speed reduction isn't just essentially difficult terrain( halved speed whilst in spirit guardians)in a 15ft aura, spirit shroud is a flat reduction that persists out of its own range, meaning that should a creature teleport out that -10ft persists until your next turn, so legendary actions such a dragons wing attack that use a creatures innate movement are weakened for a whole round rather than just a 15ft rad circle portion of the map. It's a spell that is best with compounding flat reductions.
^ This. Both fathomless warlock and blood hunter (if your group allows that) also have movement reductions, which can make this lock down enemies with 30ft or less movement as early as level five warlock. And at that point if one of your friends knocks them down, they're prone forever.
Spirit Shroud with Warlock with Eldritch Blast + Level 6 Bladesinger Multiclass is pretty neat though.
think in Scorching Ray
It's thematically cool and if that's what matters to you, you should have still totally it, but mathematically you're sacrificing a 3rd level spell slot instead of a 1st to do an average of 1 more damage per hit, and trading disadvantage on checks for speed reduction.
You don't need to use a bonus action if your target dies at least, but the overall difference in resource cost is massive for what amounts to 5 more damage if you're a 17th level character or higher casting it with 6 levels of Bladesinger, and even lower damage if you're of a lower level or miss even one of the hits.
Those 3rd Level Spell slots are just a little too useful to use them on a slightly stronger version of Hex.
It is cool though. More clicky clacky rolls, but you get the same amount of dice with hex, just one dice size smaller and for a much lower opportunity cost!
It's also really awkward to use Bladesinger with Eldritch Blast, since it's a ranged attack roll and not a saving throw, meaning you need to not be within 5 feet of any enemy when casting it or be subject to disadvantage. (I'm aware that you can just use a Hand Crossbow as a Bladesinger, but that kind of defeats the fantasy of the subclass.)
This gets even more awkward when Spirit Shroud requires you to be within 10 feet of the target, meaning you have a really narrow ring around an enemy where you can benefit from Shroud and also not have disadvantage on Eldritch Blast.
So on the first turn you're attacking something, you can run towards it, stop 10 feet away, Eldritch Blast, run in and swing your melee weapon for the full damage
But then on subsequent turns you need to try to get more than 5 feet away, but no more than 10 to do it again, meaning you'll take opportunity attacks.
Or you can use a hand crossbow and stand exactly 10 feet away and shoot, but that only lasts until an enemy steps 5 feet towards you and you're in the same pickle as if you were using a melee weapon, except now you also have disadvantage on the weapon attack.
@@philipmrkeberg7985 The Bladesinger mc would use CBE and then all of those problems go away, just stand and shoot at any range. but I think spirit shroud is still kind of trash even then, just cast slow or hypnotic pattern or sleet storm or whatever you want
@@Peberro Most good 3rd level warlock spells are save-or-suck iirc, and save-or-suck doesn't work at all on higher levels. There's also the fact that the spell can be upcast, so it's very useful for single class melee warlocks.
Magic missile gets pretty good if you are one of the classes that gets both
I used Spirit Shroud with my Hexblade. At level 5 it was way better option than Eldritch Smite and Hex.
1d8 is for every melee hit, not just to one enemy and not just once. As melee character the movement lowering was also a good plus.
And Blink + Spirit Shroud is a pretty fun "Nightcrawler" combo :D
It's not just melee hits. They just have to be within 10 feet of you. That's workable for ranged attacks
@@Kirk9019 It's true, but I build my character mainly to melee.
For example I didn't have the "agonizing blast" invocation, because I wanted to focus on melee. And with this "Nightcrawler" combo I had also really good survivability.
Later on higher level I picked the agonizing blast, and I more frequently used the Darkness-Advantage combo, both in melee and ranged.
And I took some level in sorcerer mainly because of the spellslots (to cast Shield, Hex or other lowlevel spell from pactslot is a waste of spellslot). The coffeelock feature is a really good bonus.
Hexblade Warlock with a magical weapon might get good use out of it, always casting at max level, having limited spellslots and so on
Indeed, its like an unlimited use Divine smite - spend the spell slot only once for quite a heap of extra damage die if you cast with a high level slot and it will last the whole combat in nearly all cases... So you won't be nearly as tapped out at the end of round 1...
Edit to remove my mistakenly believing it was not concentration.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 Spirit shroud IS a concentration spell
11th level Hexblade with Polearm Master here: 6d8 extra damage every turn is pretty baller.
@@MrBlancify yep, 14th level and it’s still V good. Basically my go to spell
@@tensazangetsu8189 Ah so it is, didn't notice that in the vid or recall it, so it is less powerful than I suggested. But still effectively smite for every attack at the cost of a single spell slot over multiples - that is pretty big.
What you have missed is how busted this spell is with how many attacks that scorching ray can dish out. Ive melted single targets with a divine soul sorcerer. Add quicken spell and Eldrich Blast or Action Surge.
Sure... if the target is within 10 feet.
I've seen a Light Cleric favor upcasting both Spirit Shroud and Scorching Ray, and I've been a Celestial Warlock pairing it with Eldritch Blast.
Can be very satisfying. I even took the Gunner feat in case the melee party members weren't able to block for me while shotgun Blasting, and Sickening Radiance for AoE alternative with all the tactical Blast Invocations.
The Light Cleric I played with did a 2 level dip in Stars Druid just to have access to one more thematic attack as a bonus action turn 2 (or turn 1 if getting to set up before initiative). Had other tricks to mix in, Light one Quicken Spell per day from the feat and a Ring of Invisibility to gain advantage on the Scorching Ray attacks (the ruling was, since you have to target all the attacks at the same time when casting the spell, and it's a single instance of spellcasting, they all take place before the invisibility drops, which is certainly Rules as Written). 18d6 and 36d8 before factoring in misses and crits is a terrifying sight to behold, and that campaign is still ongoing at level 21 party, so I've seen it more than a few times.
Paladin can use that 3rd level spell slot for 5d8 damage as a burst on a vampire (or other undead). While less overall on a long combat, killing something *now* as opposed to later is really, really useful.
5d8 for an average of 22 radiant damage is nice, but consider this:
Against a “boss” enemy or even a “mini” boss, 22 damage will not be enough to one-shot it, especially if it can heal (and despite what KoboldPack Tactics says, as a former-eternal DM I tell you there are endless ways enemies can and _will_ heal where the setting fits)
Against a group of smaller enemies being supported by a boss or mini-boss(es), Spirit Shroud gives you just enough DPS that, when stacked with other abilities, is enough to one or two shot the minions and ground away at the end boss (who won’t be able to heal). It’s a lot more simple to digest than this guy makes it sound.
TLDR: Spirit Shroud is a specialist tool; there are a lot of situations where this works really well, but a lot of others where you’re best bet is a different spell.
Also just use spirit shroud then smite with a second level slot, 4d8 plus 1d8 from spirit shroud. Exact same damage but over a longer period of time
And I think vampires can't regen HP if they take radiant damage. So it's most likely better to nova with smite against vampires.
@@casfontana7090 Yeah, but you had to use a second level spell slot, which at worst could be another smite.
This spell saved my party from a dragon with a insane regeneration
The homebrew monsters from my dm were very strong...
Just grab Chill Touch if you plan to stop regeneration. Far cheaper than a 3rd level spell
Spirit shroud is a GREAT spell...for dungeon masters to slap on their monsters to scare the crap out of their players
True. Players rely of healing a lot more than NPCs. Denying that tactic makes for an oh crap moment.
good video PT! I've played two different PCs that use the spirit shroud spell: The first was a Sorlock that combined it with Eldritch Blast. This wasn't the worst thing in the world, but it def was not optimized. My second was a Bladesinger, I was the damage in the party so slapping this on def helped win encounters.
"Spirit Shroud is rather circumstantial and you don't need to rely on it"
Fully agree! I picked up the spell with my bladesinger wizard, but only used it when monsters were healing.
It does have its niche when upcast at higher levels.
1 Level HexBlade 2 Levels Fighter and 17 levels Wizard.
First cast Hex Blade's curse, then cast spirit Shroud at 9th level.
Get within 10 feet, Cast Scorching Ray at 8th level and then Action Surge it again at 7th level for a total of 17 attacks.
If one of your party members can give you advantage on this then play as an elf for Elven Accuracy.
In total you will deal (if all attacks hit and you get no crits) 34d6+68d8+102 or 527 average damage. If you have a Simulacrum at hand make that 1054 damage on average with an additional 25 with each crit.
Throw in Metamagic adept and you can fire off this Kamehameha in 15 different flavors.
You lost me at "Cast Spirit Shroud at 9th level"
A pact of the blade warlock in general can make pretty damn good use of it, especially because smart enemies can’t decide to just avoid an AOE.
Ya I don't get all these people talking about lvl ,17+ characters casting 9th lvl up cast spells. They are complete white room opti.
So many 7th, 8th, 9th lvl spells that do more than just damage. And people act like they'll hit every single attack for these kinds of spells.
So you're using a 7th level, 8th level and 9th level spell slot, two turns, your concentration, and getting within 10ft as a wizard, just to do 364 damage (since you forgot to factor in hit chance (for reference, the odds of you hitting all 17 of your attacks is about 0.07%))? That's not a very good tradeoff.
The UA for spirit shroud is insane because it would work multiple times and deal in the range of 7d8 damage. So, a blade singer could do insane damage with a spirit shroud.
The best use of this is definitely combo with scorching ray/eldritch blast
My favorite sub class is divine soul sorcerer and I take this spell as the dpr when combined with scorching ray is almost unparalleled
4:35 I'd say that also an eldritch knight with polearm master could potentially benefit from this spell, they get it at 15th level essentially but whatever, it is still a viable option since it is in the wizard's spell list.
Yup. Big damage since you can pile it on every single attack you make each turn.
Spirit Shroud is a spell created for busting the melee of casters like bladesingers or hexblades, but for other clases there are better options
Especially on Bladesingers, when your DM doesn't allow Shadow Blade to work with Booming Blade like they used to. I`ve never played a Hexblade, but I assume it would work the same way for them, though with one less attack?
While Spirit Shroud is always about 1d8 damage behind what you would have gotten with Shadow Blade, being able to work with Booming Blade makes all the difference. Both the slow, and preventing healing are both situationally useful as well, and come baked into the spell, so I don't have to worry about things like casting Ray of Frost to slow an enemy that wants to run, etc...
So I have this on a Sorlock Hexblade/shadow sorcerer and let me tell you: it’s gas with a quickened booming blade + 2 attacks! Even just having PAM with my scythe (glaive) makes it go hard af.
@@jemm113 And me being happy with my 9° Level warlock with an axe and a stick
@@vigardefuegoscuro5950 Now you know what to do, right?
@@vigardefuegoscuro5950Yeah, my last campaign was with a PAM Hexblade and Spirit Shroud was her go-to spell. Every round felt like I was just going, "Okay, 2d10, a d4, and 6d8, plus 15 base weapon damage...*clackclackclack."
The way I like to use this spell is kinda jank but I love it
Scribe Wizards have this feature where they can take any element of a spell in their spellbook and use that element for the spell they're casting instead
(It has to be the same level as the spell your casting and it has to be IN your spellbook meaning it MUST be a wizard spell. And it's kindof annoying since you have to make the scroll and copy the scroll into spellbook (gold, materials and arcana checks)
So you can cast fireball using cold, necrotic or radiant damage instead of fire. Forever
Edit: OK so I'm just learning NOW after playing 5e for years that wizards get to add 2 spells in their spellbook for free every level up??
Scribe Wizards are fun.
I cast SUNBALL
divine soul pairing scorching ray with 5th level spirit shroud to hit for 6d6+6d8 knowing full well that you can upcast scorching ray for another 2d6+2d8 per ray.
I play a sorcadin who does when shit hits the fan. Hit twice with my reach weapon, quicken scorching ray.
My order of the scribes wizard picked this spell up in my current campaign. It is very useful to cast a better spell with radiant damage in a undead heavy campaign 😂 (just me and the druid have a reliable access to radiant damage in the whole party)
Colby in shambles after the kobold dances on one of his go-to spells. xD
Oh boy, Kobold finally made the Shadowblade video!
This spell has the effect of having people tunnel vision it and ignore the other good spell options available to their classes. Its OBVIOUS that a wizard/cleric/full caster has much better stuff to concentrate on but for Paladins specifically, shroud takes attention away from their good options.
Shroud is essentially a 1st level spell (Hex) with two cantrip riders: Chill touch (No Regen) and Ray of Frost (-10ft).
Its crazy how people are picking shroud for the damage capabilities when there is options as: Bless, super good at 1st level, but its not even close with the upcast to 3rd. Crusader's mantle adds damage to everyone who is nearby. Including the Paladin! The flurry of Blows monk, action surging fighter, Pam/cbe user trying their best to have fun, dual weapon wielders, they'll all benefit from it.
With a very specific build at lvl 20 you can do a ton of damage with spirit shroud.
A level 17 sorcerer 2 fighter and 1 hexblade warlock you can combine a high level spirit shroud with a high level scorching ray for extreme damage. If you cast ss at lvl 7, and sr at lvl 9 you get a total of 20d6 + 30d8 + 60 in two rounds if everything hits, using the first round to set up with ss and the next one to hex curse and sr. This can be combined with hold monster from another ally spellcaster to double the dice and give advantage on every hit if you are 5 feet away from the enemy, and you have the gunner or crossbow expert feat, and you can action surge for another one with 90% of the damage. You can transmute the damage type on both castings of sr, avoiding any resistance or immunity to fire.
Given the best case scenario with hold monster this does 459,5 damage with the ninth level sr against a 15 ac enemy! Not to mention this is with no magic items and you can benefit from elven accuracy for better reliability against higher ac monsters. You will also be able to a second scorching ray on the same turn with action surge if the boss somehow survived the first one.
Should you make a character based on only this? No. Can you do this with a character that uses other spells most of the time, but can also do this? Yes
To be fair you can do most of this build at lower levels. At level 16 you can get an almost as powerful one, and you can mix and match the spell usage as seen fit
A few things. 15 AC is very low for a 20th level character to be fighting (and most of the time, you’re not going to be at 20th level) and it’s a very big waste to burn all of your highest level spell slots on spirit shroud and scorching ray when hell, at that level you already have forcecage and wish.
It kind of shows how bad the spell is when a max level character needs to burn 3 of their highest level spell slots, 2 turns, and 3 levels in multiclassing , in order to kill a single enemy at close range.
If we want to talk about white room optimizing, Swift quiver can make any nonmagical ammunition without a cost limit, meaning you can make adamantine arrows with purple worm poison to deal 2d8+14d6 damage on a single attack, with 4 attacks per round. Or maybe you could use that build where you play as an assassin Gloomstalker Paladin fighter in order to crit smite 8-9 times on turn 1. Or you could cast reverse gravity on a target to push them through a prismatic wall
Spirit Shroud doesn't requires INT to be effective which makes the best spell for an Eldritch Knight. At lvl 13th, EK gains access to lvl3 spells and can deal 3 attacks per turn.
So, using a simple longsword EK is able to deal 3d8+15 + 3d8 on a regular turn. Add that to action surge or GWM you have an absolute beast
Preventing healing isn't just more damage, it's action economy. Downed enemies that can't be healed don't inflict damage or take actions, and you can focus fire elsewhere.
Downed enemies are usually dead, unless your DM gives every enemy death saves which they are not supposed to do.
@@renatocorvaro6924 by the rules, while the default is that enemies are dead upon hitting 0HP, the rules specifically carve out that DMs may have any NPC instead start making death saves just as PCs would
okay but a combination between the slasher feat and spirit shroud reduces the speed of enemies that you hit and are within 10 feet of you by 20, if we consider an average speed of 30 that leaves them with only 10, combine with the feature of shield master to knock them prone and is almost like locking them in place.
@MoonsilverTV spirit guardians is only available to Clerics
@MoonsilverTV ok
@@Guille2033 and oath of crown paladins
@@agilemind6241 Getting up from prone costs half your movement so Moonsilvers build actually stops any creature with 40ft speed, while still massively reducing the speed of faster targets. A creature with 120ft movement would have 40ft of movement left after standing up.
Tried this spell on my hexblade. Was not impressed. Ditched it for Fly at 6th level.
If your 3rd level spell slots are still one of your best resources, you want more bang for your buck, and if you've reached a high enough level where you have them to spare, you have better things to do with your one leveled spell/turn.
Just finished a campaign playing a paladin. I relied heavily on divine favor (+1d4 on every attack for a 1st level spell slot). Changing the d4 to a d8 at the cost of a spell slot that is 2 whole levels higher, really doesn't sound worth it, unless it has some sort of powerful controlling ability along side the damage (like stun/fear/blindness).
Honestly, its a worse spell than bless, and that's 2 levels lower.
Changing the d4 for yourself to d4s for everyone with Crusaders Mantle.
Unless, of course, you're the only member in your party who has access to Spirit Shroud, no one has Spirit Guardians, and the stopping regen health thing is huge in a battle against the BBEG who's supposed to be regaining 20 hp each turn, and your sorcerer friend didn't take Chill Touch and insists on upcasting Lightning Bolt.
That could never possibly happen - oh wait
To be fair, hear what you're saying on Bless, especially since it's affecting multiple targets, but Spirit Shroud is better for Paladins than Divine Favor and Crusader's Mantle (unless you're surrounded by conjured animals). I know I know, SG is great, but don't think this is really a fair comparison.
It's useful to put in your spellbook for an Order of Scribes wizard, so you have the option to do radiant damage fireballs.
I am making an Aarokocra Warlock, specifically so I can fly above enemies but stay 10 ft away so I can Spirit Shroud plus Eldritch blast, since you only have to be within 10 ft for the spell to provide you the damage
Great kickstarter
I did a wizard build around spirit shroud using scorching ray I did super damage with it melting more then one creature a turn.
Honestly from my own experience I think spirit shroud works best depending on the build you’re going for. I just finished up a level 20 divine soul (14)/ vengeance paladin (6), where I didn’t take control spells since most of my party were casters took them.
Making 3 attacks with quicken spell booming blade or 4 attacks with haste with an upcasted spirit shroud (since I didn’t use my high slots for smite) was amazing
I feel like he missed the best part of Magic Stone, it's easily the best Druid attacking cantrip from 1-3. Then you can swap it for Thorn Whip at 4 using the Tasha feature (just confirm ahead of time that you'll have access to that) for battlefield control. Good range and average 6.5 damage on hit (assuming +3 mod) is really solid early on and serves as a good range option for melee party members in the early levels.
Divine Soul sorcerers love this spell. Use scorching rays to generate large number of attacks and you can use transmuted spell to change the damage type of either spell so you're never resisted. The block on healing is just a bonus.
bit of a weird situation, but as a celestial warlock, my DM has ruled that it works once per cast of eldritch blast for the radiant soul bonus damage. Which is nice, so while I'm suffering in near melee with eldritch blast, at least ill do +5 damage.
I like the Spirit Shroud because, on top of everything else, it's SUPER thematic and fun for a Conquest Paladin, letting you slow down enemies without frightening them - which is useful on Devils, Demons and Undead, who tend to be immune to fear. And the longer the fight goes on, the more damage it does overall compared to a smite. Plus you also don't get Spirit Guardians and while Armor of Agyths is good, it requires you to get hit a lot. Is it an all the time spell? No, but the Paladin kit is FULL of situational spells, and Spirit Shroud is one that works
Divine soul sorcerer with feat to take Eldredge blast paired with max level spirit shroud is a menace to the world! Crossbow expert needed if your not good with map awareness/movement control.
3 levels warlock for charisma damage is nice
how does it chalk up with a XBE SS hexblade, im playing one with a fighter dip and im gonna take it, it seems pretty worth damage wise aslong as i can maintain the distance and concentration
I use a build of 17 Divine Soul Sorcerer/1 Hexblade Warlock/2 Paladin that uses Spirit Shroud in combination with Booming Blade, Divine Smite and Quicken Spell for a high cost, high NOVA damage type build. It works very well with the synergy between all these spells especially for boss encounters. I do use Spirit Guardians as well but it has in my experience been less reliable for single and two target damage over the combo listed above.
Hey, Kobold!
Give it to the fighter >:3
It's a high level investment but an eldritch knight could take Spirit Shroud, cast as a bonus action, attack three times, action surge for three more, and then restore that spell slot after the fight with a pearl of power.
I'm playing a Celestial Warlock, and I never took Hex, but I did take Spirit Shroud. I've cast it twice so far and I've come to the conclusion that they should have given Celestial Warlocks Spirit Guardians. It's serviceable for boosting damage, and it made an eldritch blast crit seem all the more impressive, but I think there's definitely much better spells for both my concentration and my spell slot than it (even ignoring the fact that I don't have SG).
Spirit shroud is great for a Mountain Dwarf Genie Marid Warlock using pact of the blade. Hexblades don't need spirit shroud but it is great for other builds. Being able to cast blur at level 3 for a tankier option at low levels is fun. However aside from chilled touch, warlocks don't have much to fight against creatures that regain hit points. For cantrips i prioritized Green flame blade (marids give prof cold damage so the fire and ice on a hit seemed cool) and toll the dead to have an up close attack roll and a saving throw on wisdom range roll (better against high AC foes).....so no chilled touch for me. That leaves me with spirit shroud later on and reliance on our twilight cleric earlier on. I'll probably only ever use spirit shroud in an encounter with a room full of 5 or more zombies. Armor of Agathys and Shadow of Moil are better tank options vs the spirit shroud in most all other situations. Casting AA until it runs out and then casting Blur (enemies have disadvantage with attack rolls and at level 4 taking the warcaster feat you have advantage on your const saving throws making you very hard to hit. Hexblades might be a better option for DPS and doing radiant damage on hexblade curse is amazing but with that option limited to hexblades spirit shroud is the next best situational thing for a room full of zombies and the like.
Holy Weapon is far better than an upcast spirit shroud. It lasts an hour, it isn’t limited to close range, and it doesn’t have to be cast on self. So a level 11 cleric could cast holy weapon on the fighter with PAM or CBE and they will have an extra 2d8 damage on all of 4 of their attacks for an hour.
My two-weapon fighting swords bard thinks this is the most smoothbrain thing she has ever heard.
The only use case I’ve seen for spirit shroud is to use an upcasted Jim’s Magic missile or scorching ray to make it OK at best. Playing as the Volo’s version of the kobold for advantage on a scribes wizard to change the damage type of spirit shroud, scorching ray, or Jim’s magic missile to hit vulnerabilities and dodge resistances.
For a Polearm Master Hexblade Warlock, Spirit Shroud is pretty solid and it's really good for single target nova damage (especially when you're tag-teaming with a Bladesinger inside their Darkness for free advantage!). If your party likes to actually play to a warlock's strengths and takes some short rests, it'll always be available for a major boss encounter. It's also better than Hex in that, in addition to dealing a d8 instead of a d6 for damage, you can use it to burn down a minion without having to reapply with a bonus action after you kill it, and the damage scales with slot level rather than the duration. Yeah, it uses your concentration, but 2d10 + 2d8 (6d8 at level 9) your opening round and 2d10 + 1 d4 + 3d8 (9d8 at level 9) every subsequent turn is pretty damn solid damage, especially if you can combo it with other things (and getting 3 attacks per turn functions basically the same as half damage on a save, unless your target has stupid high AC, in which case you should find other means of dealing damage). Getting 3 different choices for damage type is nifty, and the heal stopping basically means it's Chill Touch on top of your melee swings.
You can't really compare it to Spirit Guardians (objectively on of the best spells in the game) since most gish builds that can access Spirit Shroud aren't going to have access to Spirit Guardians (how popular are Crown Paladins? serious question). I know you don't like melee combat, but Spirit Shroud is great for maximizing your damage against a single target as a gish, and should be one of your prepared/known spells, especially if you can attack with a bonus action (like with PAM). You just need to pick the right moment for it.
Scribe Wizards can change the damage type to Slashing and with Slasher Feat, hitting would reduce their speed by 10. Combine with landing a Ray of Frost on the same turn & stay within 10 ft of it.
-30 ft movement. Throw in some Caltrops for an additional -10 for -40 ft. So long as you don't miss, you can lock down a relatively slow enemy, preferrably Martial without a Reach weapon.
Shroud seems pretty good on Warlocks, considering multiple Eldritch Blasts and the extra d8 for upcasting.
Sure there's plenty of control spells and AoE that are a better use of Pact Slots (Hypnotic Pattern, Fear, etc.). But when you need big single-target damage in a pinch, it's a decent option.
I wish you spoke a little more about upcasting! I have a hexblade warlock with pole arm master about to become level 9 and my plan is for big combats to use an upcast spirit shroud for the extra 2d8 per turn, I also have a +2 weapon so I figure it’d be pretty worth it?
You should consider upcasting banishment. Taking 2 big enemies out of a fight is generally better than a few more points of damage.
Or danse macabre, 5d6+10+25 is pretty good.
Spirit shroud will be good if you can cast the spell to an ally in range of touch or 10ft. If the range is increase to 15ft in and maybe increase the range by 5ft if you upcast it for every spell slot higher tan 3rd.
It seems like the spell is pretty okay if upcast to 5th level on a high level paladin. Max smite spell level is 4th so you burn you fifth level slot for 2 D8+1D8 improved divine smite+ 4/5D8 with a 4th level smite+ weapon attack die X 3 + any bonus action attack +7/8D8 X 3 if you unload on your second turn. In total for 2 rounds that is 57 D8 assuming you hit every time and do not crit 4 D10, and 1D4 +30 I think from your mod if you have +5 STR. That is close to 300 damage to one target in 2 rounds.
How about🐊 shroud?
what is your opinion on vampiric touch
Radient dmg for dualwield bladesinger. Omg. Its save own oneshot party life
Haen also wrote an article about it! formofdread.wordpress.com/2021/11/30/shrouded-in-garbage-the-failure-of-spirit-shroud/
Any dual-wielding melee warlock does well with this spell. 20.8 DPR at level 5 and 30.9 DPR at level 10 isn't bad damage, and that's using two short swords. Combined with Cloak of Flies, the slowed movement turns you into a frontline deathtrap. Hexblade is obviously the best choice, but an Undead warlock with Polearm Master is literally Death riding a pale horse.
considering you need a 3rd level slot, that's pretty bad.
A warlock could be casting something like summon fey and eldritch blast, and be doing more damage at a much longer range.
Warlocks automatically cast at highest level so I'm not sure what you mean by bad. It's a viable spell IF (big if) you have the attacks to make it worthwhile.
A strength-based warlock with Polearm Master and Slasher can deal 19.5 points of damage in round 1 and 27.3 DPR thereafter. This doesn't count reaction attacks or slowing down creatures 10 to 20 ft..
At level 5 EB + Summon Fey has a DPR of 18.525. They can do that for an hour vs a minute, so it's not nothing.
Bladesinger and spirit shroud can put out a lot of damage compared to bladesinger and shadowblade, it even enables you to increase your to hit with a +3 weapon in your main hand (spirit shroud) and not shadowblade with a lower chance to hit.
You’re not going to have a +3 weapon for most of the game. On top of that, if you don’t already have a magical weapon Shadowblade not only fixed that but also gives you advantage in darkness (And I think it scales slightly earlier iirc)
I took this spell
It's pretty great
I took it as an Order of Scribes wizard to unlock Radiant damage for my 3d lvl spell slots lmao
It's never prepared
Only good use for spirit shroud fr
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My fighter/wizard begs to differ
Cast this spell Higher level! Build sorlock.
You can do 3d8 plus damage per attack easly.
8d10+11+24d8
Giga damage. Its a Better hex at Later levels when you have spell slots for it.
It might be fun to use as a sorcerer multi-class that can do things like quicken spell eldritch blast. Still probably not actually optimized.
You're thinking of a divine soul sorlock 😎
Evoker Wizards can pull off some nasty shenanigans with the spell being upcast to 5th level and overchanneled. That's bout the best case scenario for the spell
Me: hey i could multiclass my monk with 6 level in bladesinger. Haste and spirit shroud looks so cool!
Kobold: no you don't!
This + Eldritch blast can be absolutely insane if you position correctly, especially after 9th level when the damage is always doubled for warlocks. It may be a bit circumstantial but spirit shroud + illusionists bracers after 9th level feels absolutely unfair
Bladesingers use Spirit Shroud as an alternative to Shadow Blade, if the DM wont let Shadow Blade work with Booming Blade like they used to. Booming Blade is close to the damage that a Fighters extra attack gets as they level, so combining it with an actual extra attack, and something that does damage that scales with spell level, all adds up to some really good melee damage, if you`re a Bladesinger... As @TheDarkArch0n pointed out below, Spirit shroud also works with Magic Missile, adding damage onto every single missile.
right.. positioning correctly by running into melee
I think SG is more DMG focused and spirit shroud more utility focused. So it's kinda hard to compare by using DMG as one of the most important metrics.
the difference in utility is negligible
@@pandanielxd that might be true on a lot of tables and in a lot of situations. But as Kobold said there will be circumstances where spirit shroud will be more useful.
And you can cast both of them. And Kobold didn't mention the huge drawback of SG. It's concentration. It can be interrupted by just plain DMG. Spirit shroud on the other hand will stay up and annoy enemies.
They are very hard to compare imho:
One is concentration. The other isn't.
The one has a locked DMG type. The other let's you choose. (so resistances and immunities are a thing to consider).
The one just slows and deals DMG. The other slows, deals damage and prevents heals.
The one is an action to cast. The other is a bonus action to cast.
It's kinda like comparing apples to pears. Sure they are kinda similar. But if you compare them mostly by their acidity it's not going to get you the whole picture.
Spirit Shroud is generally worse though. They’re still both concentration, and Spirit guardians usually has a good damage type with radiant damage (one of the most reliable damage types in the game), has more range (slightly, but spirit guardians is also AOE), has a far better slow (Based on the wording, a creature that enters will have their speed halved, so if let’s say a goblin moved 15 ft into range of spirit guardians, they wouldn’t have any movement left), can effect multiple targets at once with comparable damage to spirit shroud on a single target, has half damage on a failed save (which as Kobold said is fairly substantial). On top of that, you don’t have to keep attacking with spirit guardians in order to keep dealing damage, and you can instead focus on casting.
Yes, Spirit Shroud can choose a damage type, but that’s not going to come up much. Even it’s healing prevention isn’t going to come up that much, and if it does it wouldn’t usually make up for the direct damage dealt by spirit guardians. The only thing it has on spirit guardians is its ability to be casted as a bonus action, and even then it locks you into making close range attacks
@@ST9876543 Spirit shroud is concentration.
As an 11th level Warlock, I melted a boss with this spell. 1st turn cast it, followed by three beams from Eldritch Blast. Second turn, 5th level scorching ray, six beams doing 2d6 fire and 2d8 radiant on a hit. I think one or two crit for good measure, but the boss was dead before I could finish rolling for all of them.
The spell is basically a jumped up version of Divine Favor for sure. Maybe it’d be better as a 2nd level spell.
What about on a divine soul sorlock double casting eldritch blast with a 5th lvl spirit shroud at character lvl 11 for 3 eldritch blast beams per cast?
Within 10ft? So you are dashing up round 1, then doing all of this on round 2 assuming you don't die (and noone moves within 5ft, cause then you would have disadvantage)?
First off, thank you PT for your great videos. I love all of them so far.
Will say though that honestly I never even looked at the kickers for spirit shroud. While I have not been able to find any "official" rulings on it, (if anyone knows where it is please tell me) but I used it with magic missle (Obviously not in the same round of casting both) since it hits multiple times for quick nova damage since even just using a 1st level magic missle would do 3d4+3d8 per casting. Also if you can find a weapon that does multi hit damage it should also work.
I feel it would depend on the definition of the word attack in the spell. (since its not capitalized I am assuming it does not mean the "Attack" action.)
Again this might just be with the GM I have, but spirit shroud honestly became my go to burst damage for my Scribe Wizard.
Please do video about forbiddance spell. Could it be an easy wipe of dungeon level by level?
The only reason why I took SS with my scribes wizard is to get access to radiant damage in a campaign with lots of undead, i.e. Radiant fireball
I'm curious about your thoughts on spells like thunderous smite
The only smite spell I really like is wrathful. I think wrathful is super good.
@@PackTactics excellent! Thank you!
This seems at it's best against players. If a dead player is healed it removes the death condition, so you could use this to prevent that.
I would love to watch a series where kobold plays Solasta or Baldur's Gate 3 and uses all his tactics and knowledge while controling the whole party
I have considered both of these ideas. I own both games. As for Solasta, on launch I killed the vampire lady and then quit the game from there.
The things I remember from Solasta launch was Pass without trace gave the whole party +20 to stealth rather than +10 so it was more broken than usual and I also remember fog cloud gave everyone disadvantage to attacks no matter what so it comboed super well with spirit guardians and cantrips that forced a save. Also Spirit guardians stacked for some reason. Lastly I screamed when I found out that a wizard subclass gets the druid spell list.
Yeah, Solasta is worse 5e, it even nerfed Martials for no reason. It's probably better now, I heard a lot of things have been fixed but when I played, it got a ton of rules wrong and the boosts were really stupid.
Somewhat off topic, but this is an awesome spell to add to your spell book if you are an order of scribes wizard. Radiant Ball, anyone?
You should do a vid about fireball vs melf's minute meteors
I gotchu
-Fireball’s most of the time going to be better as it’s non concentration and works in a single turn against more enemies. Melfs can do more damage over time and can work better when your allies are by your targets since it has a smaller radius
Generally, unless trying to conserve slots, I would recommend fireball
yeah, this has always been a spell you build for a monk or fighter but that ends up being a fairly high-level build before it comes online. not good on a pure cleric, unless maybe spirit weapon triggers it too or MAYBE war cleric. The only thing i can think of is possibly a frontline fathomless warlock who uses eldritch blast at close range and you are allowed to trigger it with TotD. I dont know if that works RAW so if someone knows, feel free to inform me. but if that all works RAW, at 11th level you could do 8d8 extra damage per round if you hit with all attacks. 3d10+9d8+15 could equal about 89 points of damage. decent and repeatable but thats obviously assuming they all hit, you maintain Concentration, AND survive in the front. yeah, tough spell to use well
although if this all works, and you had the Lance of lethargy invocation, you could absolutely stop any creature with 30 ft of move speed or less as you reduce their speed to 0
Am I wrong in thinking this is a concentration free spell? As such it will last for the full min unless dispelled, it also could be twinned, or your mount will gain it's benefit, so I can think of reasons to use it.
It requires concentration and cannot be twinned since it’s only able to be casted on yourself. Your mount will not gain the benefits either unless you had the find steed Spell, and even then, 1d8 extra damage on a mount is not worth it
First off, thanks for not making the assumption of pre-casting. Too many build discussions assume all spells are already up if they buff for a fight.
However, I want to point out that, by assuming Polearm Master, you're assuming there's no other build consideration for the paladin besides damage. While Sentinel + PAM is a classic paladin combo in 5e, perhaps he's a sword-and-board paladin, instead.
Is the spell worthwhile if you don't have PAM, for whatever reason?
Also, are you assuming _spirit shroud's_ damage is also applying to the later rounds' bonus action PAM attacks in this calculation?
Also Spirit Shroud is concentration
Could be decentish if your facing a horde of vampires and use magic missile or eldritch blast in close range with war caster
It really says a lot about spirit shroud when it’s only decentish in an extremely niche scenario, and even then Spirit guardians would be better
Also, Spirit Shroud unfortunately doesn’t work with magic missile
the point is just stack element on a Attack... a paladin hexblade can use smite hex and spirit shroud maybe elemental weapon and a weapon with elemental damage to do all kind of damage... radiant from smite... force from eldtrich smite hex do necrotic and use spirit shroud to add the cold damage ... and with that you already have 4 damage types done... if you have a flame tongue then are 5 ... that's the point... you don't care about how much damage it deals just that is a other element to add
I had Spirit Shroud on my Hexblade Warlock for a bit but didn't get to cast it until the last few sessions of a campaign
I thought it was pretty good cast at 5th level, but also I would have preferred to cast Synaptic Static if my teammates weren't all mixed up with the enemies
didn't stop our Bard from casting it on me tho >:(
I'd love to see a responce to the new Treantmonk video that says OneD&D warlock is good
I think spirit shroud should be a 2nd level spell with much better upcasting scaling.
It does not require a weapon attack, it's any attack, which includes spell attacks. Spirit Shroud + Scorching Ray is one of the highest damage dealing methods available. I think I got around 600 damage nova without Glyph of Warding or any major cheese.
Why is spirit shroud a 3rd level concentration spell that forces you into melee?
I feel the mileage for this spell really depends on what kind of table you're playing at. Tables that don't to barely do any homebrew monsters I totally agree with this video. But the value might increase with tables that have a lot of regenerating enemies. Or enemies that have "Mythic"-esc burst healing, especially at higher levels where the boss can easily heal over a 100 hp.
But it's probably not worth the pick for those who are non-prep caster and are at lower levels as those situations are often too niche at the more common lower play.
Still a good video on why the spell is can be a bit overrated in general situations.
Mythic creatures don't regain hit points, but rather their hit points are set to that number. Similar to the Half Orc thing that lets you drop to 1 hp instead
@@friendlynhvamp3400 Hence why I said "Mythic"-esc. As in referencing their ability to basically get a second hp-bar when reaching a certain threshold.
A good example was a boss dragon using a Legendary action use an item that casts Heal on themselves.
Also the older Theros Mythic creatures (where the 5e version of the idea was introduced) do regain their hit points. But it's good they changed that in more recent monsters.
Spirit Shroud has another glaring weakness, which is the concentration. If we look at Bless, you can Bless yourself to help with concentration or keep your distance. If you look at Spirit Guardians, the spell makes you play at medium-melee range but you can still use your Action to dodge and reduce the chance for concentration checks from enemy attacks. Spirit Shroud, on the other hand, forces you to be within 10ft of the enemy and to make attacks, which increases your chances of being hit and losing concentration.
Pull concentration from the spell and it might have some niche utility.
Spirit Shroud now will be bonkers on a warlock with thirsting blade and 3 hits per action.