This approach that's analytical, realistic and rational represents a wonderful example of the classic academic Western approach to the different disciplines of knowledge. It's the approach I fell in love with and learnd to respect since my early teen years growing up in Egypt. Now, living in Australia as Australian citizen, it saddens me to see this approach in decline among many people in the mainstream. Regardless of the conclusions we reach, they should be based on facts not emotions. Facts don't change. Emotions are labile. Thank you for the great insights.
I am in awe of Lord Sumption’s lucidity and clear-headedness. My personal opinion is that putting yourself on a pedestal and gazing down smugly from your morally superior position at the actions of past generations is deeply suspect and questionable.
Thank you for a brilliant conversation and explaining moral law ; ' law should not be a first degree', law and politics meet to protect the values and rights of individuals especially in democracies. History is a better training for understanding Facts. Law is an application of teachings and legal principles. Thank you very much Lord Jonathan Sumption and Peter Kurti.
Ultimately, we are all slaves in regard to who we serve. We have five senses, a heart to feel and a mind to think. Eyes to see and ears to hear. But what do you see and what do you hear. You have a free will to choose. Do you think that the natural man has the ability to truly understand the moral law. Especially if it was instigated by mankind. Think again for all these attributes are attributes which have been freely given by God. And because of our flaws and our resistance against God, mankind will surely die. Death reigns and the devil is the father of lies, murder, theft, and all that evil presents itself. Darkness rules unless the light of the gospel shines in their hearts. I mean the true gospel. The words of Yahshua Messiah says; it is the Spirit that gives life and the flesh profits nothing. The flesh represents humankind. Unless one is born of the Spirit you cannot see the kingdom of God. And when you know the truth the truth will set you free. For we fight a spiritual battle not against flesh and blood. Against principalities and wickedness in high places. And what is the moral law? HalleluYah.
27:08 Thank you lord Sumption for clarifying the statement that white people were not victims of slavery by adding "...not in Western Societies". I was thinking of course of the Ottomans whose capture of European slaves is well known. Prior to Western civilisation, Europeans did make slaves of each other however (Danes and Saxons for example), so too the Africans. Human history is saturated with slavery and I fail to understand why Europeans are being singled out for something which has always existed and still does.
@@AmgadSamir11 I am also white and do not believe I am responsible. Caucasians who do feel guilty are irrational IMO and need to get over this nonsense.
Well said Dave I am from England enjoy your talks,love Ben Shapiro.We have Douglas Murrayand Matt Goodwin.and Mahyar Tousi. Keep up the good work guys.
I didn't find his arguments as robust as I had expected but still a pleasure to listen to. It's worrying to see people like him becoming fewer and fewer and their voices being silenced. Cancel culture is becoming a salient feature of our time unfortunately.
The only commentator who understood, completely, the Pandemic and how to handle it in a sensible way that the self-styled experts & politicians never did for reasons best known to themselves.
The American Civil War ended slavery in the US. The payment of 20,000,000 million pounds to buy the freedom of slaves in the British Empire and combat the practice as much as they could was the remedy.
I blame the educators, the government, and any other leader that support negative views about history. The American Civil War ended slavery. The payment to slave owners to buy the freedom of their slaves was a remedy. Why is this not constantly pointed out?
While the law might abhor retrospective legislation, in the UK it is not unconstitutional. The citizen has no protection from retrospective legislation in the UK. The UK legislature is something of an outlier among western democracies in recently having enacted several examples of it without any apparent public out cry. The consequence of the retrospective Loan Charges measures in the Finance Act (No. 2) 2017 and the Finance Act 2018 was to make up 20 years of non-taxable loans secured against trust capital, taxable as PAYE income overnight. Suicides resulted from HMRC immediately requesting 20 years of back taxes for something which was not taxable at the time. This was subsequently revised to a 10 year period after an ex- Comptroller of Taxes reported on the situation. Also note that "Ouster Clauses" in UK legislation are also used to exclude judicial review of any legislation.
Sumption. Terrific to listen too. How I miss steady calm communication like his in society in general. Speakers today aren't even listened to, but probed. The audience primed like snipers, use their ears as target finders. No ignorance is lifted, only expended rounds and lots of cancelled people not getting back up. Britain needs to be reminded that she is the weave of millions of great people who strived for better. Rather than cut these endeavours, they should be learned of, and then added to. The 68-84m people of uk currently, can't endear themselves to the country's history if it's taught to them through toxic filters like snapchat and not by schooling or national pride in passing- The story of where "Women and Children First" came about is one that every human, let alone Brit, should know.
This is probably a bit odd to say...but loving kindness is the thing that brings progress..even in argument, respect and humblness shine and anger and resentment divide.
Who cares if objects in museums are given back? We've got Shakespeare, western culture, achievement, brilliance, prowess - all in one exceptional genius.
On the topic of the slave trade weren't black Africans just as complicite in selling their own citizens to trans-atlantic traders, likewise into slavery in the middle east and within the continent of Africa.
Large inaccuracies: many of the US statues were erected long after the civil war, often as late as the 1950s, so history becomes present; general and quite fair reparations were attempted right after the war and then rescinded because white people were upset, again nothing learnt from history, the Germans lost WW2 and were caught red handed. The passage of time point is argument is slippery, a sort of statute of limitations, and for many peoples slavery has not been abolished essentially, it has been modified. Lastly, the cultures whose economies were slave based as opposed to domestic or pow exploitation, in other words a slavery normalized, as you yourself say, are the same that have brought us climate change and a penchant for relentless war. We are not free of this culture at all. The conviction of racial superiority is as strong as ever. Why? It was never confronted by it’s adherents. It just morphed. Equating the abhorrence of a slave past with anti Semitism points in an interesting direction: religions love to hate. Perhaps had Christianity forgone it’s inherent bigotries it would have been less useful justifying the trans atlantic slavers. History, to be useful, should not just be about truth, but accepting and confronting it. Text books in Florida and Texas will soon be pure fantasy. How the white man deals with truth will be “truly” fascinating. Other wise great talk, marred for me, by a couple of howlers.
Lord Sumption speaks so much sense, particularly regarding his view of the "statue smashers". My thoughts entirely. The "light and shade" in people brings to mind the great good that Jimmy Savile also did for so many people at the Stoke Mandeville hospital, which those who benefitted from the millions of pounds he raised for the hospital cannot deny, unlike those who viewed him as "all dark", yet felt the complete opposite at the time of his death.
Savile's 'benificence' was a ploy, to gain public trust, in order for him to carry out his dark deeds. He was highly intelligent but used that intelligence to manipulate and abuse vulnerable individuals. He was overwhelmingly dark.
Time doesn't go backwards as we all know. Most of the stronger states did terrible things in the past which cannot be undone ,BUT , instead of wasting energy pulling down statues, perhaps they should add a plaque denouncing this past thinking and teach children how it shouldn't have been and now how to do it with respect to others. The third world as it's called nowadays is also very disrespectful. We should be helping more than we do instead of expecting them to deal with our waste products etc. There is no planet B.
As a woman, I take the Patriarchy to Court for Reparations, for the centuries of mistreatment and abuse of girls and women worldwide. Where can I apply?
I have been asked, is there anything I regret in my life and I would change? I answer, definitively, no. The reason? I am pretty satisfied with where I am now in life. I learned a lot from my mistakes and my sins, so to speak, and thus I am who I am to a large extent from the mistakes I have made and what I learned from making them. Had I not made them, I might not be the person I am. It is a sad state of affairs when some people cannot understand this way of looking t the world and the experiences of the people who preceded us. We are what we are today because of what was learned from the past. We are not responsible for what happened, but we are responsible for the problems of the present if we choose not to learn from the past or, even more reprehensible, to use it as a weapon to attack those in the present for sins they did not commit. I hate the concept of "original sin". It is an evil concept, which we should have learned from the past.
27:55: “[statue wrecking] creates a sense of hereditary victimhood which keeps alive grievances that have no current relevance to society”-this dismissal of historical grievance as irrelevant to today’s society is telling in several important ways. It miscasts the enormous contemporary significance the topic has, as evidenced by its popularity beyond academia; in this sense relevance is not something that can plausibly be disregarded, especially in the context of discussion of this very subject. More particularly, asserting the relevance or otherwise of undisputed history is at worst dangerously censorious and moralising, and at best self-contradictory.
The people who want to change history only demonstrate that they have primitive thinking. Feeling that one can change the unchangeable by willing it to be so reveal that they suffer from grandiose narcissism, an almost intractable personality disorder. I resent that disordered people are given so much influence on our society.
Should the Church apologise? They continue holding on to vast but illegitimately gained assets in the former colonies. They continue to attack weaker indigenous people, trading their sheeple for political power. The church in ex-colonies operate very similar to how political Islam does in Britain. Is there a benefit to acknowledging the past? Yes, it makes sure you are not apologetic and accommodating of the wrong group. Britain today is incapable of saving its children from "grooming gangs", which is mostly a very specific emboldened criminal group.
The timeline we are talking about is not 2000 years old, but closer to the times of the NAZIs. Unlike the NAZIs, the colonialist did get aways with a soft power transfer to collaborators in their colonies or in some cases a continuing hold of their colonies. The NAZIs did not get their racist ideas out of thin air, these were the norm in Europe of the time. Britain has a short window of opportunity to make a whole hearted, genuine soft reparations. When the tables turn and the former colonies start digging up the past it can quickly turn very ugly for Britain, it would only take one former colony to start making noise. Imagine Germany trying to whitewash its history or hush up facts, it may not be take much time before it turns very ugly.
You do realise that the British Empire started to disperse after the war and gave the colonies their own country democratically? And secondly, what do you mean that the timeline is closer to the times of the Nazis?....what are you suggesting there?
The question is also, how many right-wing-oriented people who say "protect history, save statues" are not protesting against the Ukrainian government destroying statues from the communist period?
This approach that's analytical, realistic and rational represents a wonderful example of the classic academic Western approach to the different disciplines of knowledge. It's the approach I fell in love with and learnd to respect since my early teen years growing up in Egypt. Now, living in Australia as Australian citizen, it saddens me to see this approach in decline among many people in the mainstream. Regardless of the conclusions we reach, they should be based on facts not emotions. Facts don't change. Emotions are labile. Thank you for the great insights.
I am in awe of Lord Sumption’s lucidity and clear-headedness. My personal opinion is that putting yourself on a pedestal and gazing down smugly from your morally superior position at the actions of past generations is deeply suspect and questionable.
And an indication that the person is a narcissist.
'I am in awe of Lord Sumption’s lucidity and clear-headedness' (below). Hear hear!
Lord Sumption is a Sensei from a better time of the U.K.
Thank you for a brilliant conversation and explaining moral law ; ' law should not be a first degree', law and politics meet to protect the values and rights of individuals especially in democracies. History is a better training for understanding Facts. Law is an application of teachings and legal principles. Thank you very much Lord Jonathan Sumption and Peter Kurti.
Ultimately, we are all slaves in regard to who we serve. We have five senses, a heart to feel and a mind to think. Eyes to see and ears to hear. But what do you see and what do you hear. You have a free will to choose. Do you think that the natural man has the ability to truly understand the moral law. Especially if it was instigated by mankind. Think again for all these attributes are attributes which have been freely given by God. And because of our flaws and our resistance against God, mankind will surely die. Death reigns and the devil is the father of lies, murder, theft, and all that evil presents itself. Darkness rules unless the light of the gospel shines in their hearts. I mean the true gospel. The words of Yahshua Messiah says; it is the Spirit that gives life and the flesh profits nothing. The flesh represents humankind. Unless one is born of the Spirit you cannot see the kingdom of God. And when you know the truth the truth will set you free. For we fight a spiritual battle not against flesh and blood. Against principalities and wickedness in high places. And what is the moral law? HalleluYah.
27:08 Thank you lord Sumption for clarifying the statement that white people were not victims of slavery by adding "...not in Western Societies". I was thinking of course of the Ottomans whose capture of European slaves is well known. Prior to Western civilisation, Europeans did make slaves of each other however (Danes and Saxons for example), so too the Africans. Human history is saturated with slavery and I fail to understand why Europeans are being singled out for something which has always existed and still does.
Because they feel unexplained guilty about it, while it's very clear they weren't the only race to engage in it as you pointed out.
@@AmgadSamir11 I am also white and do not believe I am responsible. Caucasians who do feel guilty are irrational IMO and need to get over this nonsense.
@@AmgadSamir11 Slavery had nothing to do with race per-se for centuries. It was racialized in the new world.
@@DanHowardMtl The arabic word used for an african is slave.
Well said Dave I am from England enjoy your talks,love Ben Shapiro.We have Douglas Murrayand Matt Goodwin.and Mahyar Tousi. Keep up the good work guys.
Excellent! Going to need to listen to this again. Very informative and thought provoking.
Enlightening, educational, down to earth and humble, thank you for this great interview…🙏🏻☺️
Good for you Lord Sumption. I will take any blowback for standing up and supporting the truth. What I
I didn't find his arguments as robust as I had expected but still a pleasure to listen to. It's worrying to see people like him becoming fewer and fewer and their voices being silenced. Cancel culture is becoming a salient feature of our time unfortunately.
The only commentator who understood, completely, the Pandemic and how to handle it in a sensible way that the self-styled experts & politicians never did for reasons best known to themselves.
There is no further apologies or compensation required.
Weii Stated !
Brilliant Lord Sumption!
The American Civil War ended slavery in the US. The payment of 20,000,000 million pounds to buy the freedom of slaves in the British Empire and combat the practice as much as they could was the remedy.
I blame the educators, the government, and any other leader that support negative views about history. The American Civil War ended slavery. The payment to slave owners to buy the freedom of their slaves was a remedy. Why is this not constantly pointed out?
While the law might abhor retrospective legislation, in the UK it is not unconstitutional. The citizen has no protection from retrospective legislation in the UK. The UK legislature is something of an outlier among western democracies in recently having enacted several examples of it without any apparent public out cry. The consequence of the retrospective Loan Charges measures in the Finance Act (No. 2) 2017 and the Finance Act 2018 was to make up 20 years of non-taxable loans secured against trust capital, taxable as PAYE income overnight. Suicides resulted from HMRC immediately requesting 20 years of back taxes for something which was not taxable at the time. This was subsequently revised to a 10 year period after an ex- Comptroller of Taxes reported on the situation. Also note that "Ouster Clauses" in UK legislation are also used to exclude judicial review of any legislation.
Sumption. Terrific to listen too. How I miss steady calm communication like his in society in general.
Speakers today aren't even listened to, but probed. The audience primed like snipers, use their ears as target finders. No ignorance is lifted, only expended rounds and lots of cancelled people not getting back up.
Britain needs to be reminded that she is the weave of millions of great people who strived for better. Rather than cut these endeavours, they should be learned of, and then added to. The 68-84m people of uk currently, can't endear themselves to the country's history if it's taught to them through toxic filters like snapchat and not by schooling or national pride in passing-
The story of where "Women and Children First" came about is one that every human, let alone Brit, should know.
Thank you
This is probably a bit odd to say...but loving kindness is the thing that brings progress..even in argument, respect and humblness shine and anger and resentment divide.
Who cares if objects in museums are given back? We've got Shakespeare, western culture, achievement, brilliance, prowess - all in one exceptional genius.
On the topic of the slave trade weren't black Africans just as complicite in selling their own citizens to trans-atlantic traders, likewise into slavery in the middle east and within the continent of Africa.
Large inaccuracies: many of the US statues were erected long after the civil war, often as late as the 1950s, so history becomes present; general and quite fair reparations were attempted right after the war and then rescinded because white people were upset, again nothing learnt from history, the Germans lost WW2 and were caught red handed. The passage of time point is argument is slippery, a sort of statute of limitations, and for many peoples slavery has not been abolished essentially, it has been modified. Lastly, the cultures whose economies were slave based as opposed to domestic or pow exploitation, in other words a slavery normalized, as you yourself say, are the same that have brought us climate change and a penchant for relentless war. We are not free of this culture at all. The conviction of racial superiority is as strong as ever. Why? It was never confronted by it’s adherents. It just morphed. Equating the abhorrence of a slave past with anti Semitism points in an interesting direction: religions love to hate. Perhaps had Christianity forgone it’s inherent bigotries it would have been less useful justifying the trans atlantic slavers. History, to be useful, should not just be about truth, but accepting and confronting it. Text books in Florida and Texas will soon be pure fantasy. How the white man deals with truth will be “truly” fascinating. Other wise great talk, marred for me, by a couple of howlers.
Lord Sumption speaks so much sense, particularly regarding his view of the "statue smashers". My thoughts entirely. The "light and shade" in people brings to mind the great good that Jimmy Savile also did for so many people at the Stoke Mandeville hospital, which those who benefitted from the millions of pounds he raised for the hospital cannot deny, unlike those who viewed him as "all dark", yet felt the complete opposite at the time of his death.
Savile's 'benificence' was a ploy, to gain public trust, in order for him to carry out his dark deeds. He was highly intelligent but used that intelligence to manipulate and abuse vulnerable individuals. He was overwhelmingly dark.
Time doesn't go backwards as we all know. Most of the stronger states did terrible things in the past which cannot be undone ,BUT , instead of wasting energy pulling down statues, perhaps they should add a plaque denouncing this past thinking and teach children how it shouldn't have been and now how to do it with respect to others. The third world as it's called nowadays is also very disrespectful. We should be helping more than we do instead of expecting them to deal with our waste products etc. There is no planet B.
As a woman, I take the Patriarchy to Court for Reparations, for the centuries of mistreatment and abuse of girls and women worldwide. Where can I apply?
I have been asked, is there anything I regret in my life and I would change? I answer, definitively, no. The reason? I am pretty satisfied with where I am now in life. I learned a lot from my mistakes and my sins, so to speak, and thus I am who I am to a large extent from the mistakes I have made and what I learned from making them. Had I not made them, I might not be the person I am. It is a sad state of affairs when some people cannot understand this way of looking t the world and the experiences of the people who preceded us. We are what we are today because of what was learned from the past. We are not responsible for what happened, but we are responsible for the problems of the present if we choose not to learn from the past or, even more reprehensible, to use it as a weapon to attack those in the present for sins they did not commit. I hate the concept of "original sin". It is an evil concept, which we should have learned from the past.
Facts and reason. Refreshingly non-Marxist.
@PrestonSartorius Both.
27:55: “[statue wrecking] creates a sense of hereditary victimhood which keeps alive grievances that have no current relevance to society”-this dismissal of historical grievance as irrelevant to today’s society is telling in several important ways. It miscasts the enormous contemporary significance the topic has, as evidenced by its popularity beyond academia; in this sense relevance is not something that can plausibly be disregarded, especially in the context of discussion of this very subject. More particularly, asserting the relevance or otherwise of undisputed history is at worst dangerously censorious and moralising, and at best self-contradictory.
What does your garbled comment mean?
@@dawnemile4974 I think it means he did not understand.
The people who want to change history only demonstrate that they have primitive thinking. Feeling that one can change the unchangeable by willing it to be so reveal that they suffer from grandiose narcissism, an almost intractable personality disorder. I resent that disordered people are given so much influence on our society.
Well Stated !
Should the Church apologise?
They continue holding on to vast but illegitimately gained assets in the former colonies.
They continue to attack weaker indigenous people, trading their sheeple for political power.
The church in ex-colonies operate very similar to how political Islam does in Britain.
Is there a benefit to acknowledging the past?
Yes, it makes sure you are not apologetic and accommodating of the wrong group.
Britain today is incapable of saving its children from "grooming gangs", which is mostly a very specific emboldened criminal group.
taxation is slavery johnathan. Countenance that on a min wage.
This intro tune also used by a mtg youtube channel, feels odd
I have erased history Winston, all it takes is a small act of will which you're not willing to take.
Ok then, that crack pipe is doing you good
The timeline we are talking about is not 2000 years old, but closer to the times of the NAZIs.
Unlike the NAZIs, the colonialist did get aways with a soft power transfer to collaborators in their colonies or in some cases a continuing hold of their colonies.
The NAZIs did not get their racist ideas out of thin air, these were the norm in Europe of the time.
Britain has a short window of opportunity to make a whole hearted, genuine soft reparations.
When the tables turn and the former colonies start digging up the past it can quickly turn very ugly for Britain, it would only take one former colony to start making noise.
Imagine Germany trying to whitewash its history or hush up facts, it may not be take much time before it turns very ugly.
You do realise that the British Empire started to disperse after the war and gave the colonies their own country democratically?
And secondly, what do you mean that the timeline is closer to the times of the Nazis?....what are you suggesting there?
The question is also, how many right-wing-oriented people who say "protect history, save statues" are not protesting against the Ukrainian government destroying statues from the communist period?
There is a war in Ukraine.A communist government set out to destroy Ukraine, including civilians. That's where our protests should be.
Don’t you think your remark is rather facile?
@@ianrobinson6788 Not sure what you mean here
@@vladanlausevic1733
/ˈfasʌɪl,ˈfasɪl/
adjective: facile
1.
ignoring the true complexities of an issue; superficial.
"facile generalizations"
Similar:
simplistic
superficial
oversimple
oversimplified
schematic
Good point. I don't remember anyone in the west complaing when Sadam Hussein's statue was torn down by the Iraqis.
Statues help us understand the past!
The truth will be known. Truth belongs to God 🙏. GOD will reward the deceiver and liar.
Oh yeah? When?
Brain as shiny as a scalpel.
in a way though animals have moral values , eg a dog parenting its puppies
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