From a Christian Upbringing to Sex Work (Aella)
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- The Michael Shermer Show # 445
Aella is a writer, data analyst, and sex worker who has written extensively about the psychology and economics of online sex work, conducting extensive surveys and research in order to understand the ecosystem of sex workers.
She grew up in Idaho as the oldest of three daughters of conservative parents who were part of a community of fundamentalist Christians, where she was homeschooled.
She eventually became one of the highest-earning creators on OnlyFans, making over $100,000 in some months.
Shermer and Aella discuss: Aella’s conservative Christian upbringing • sex work and feminism • why women are choosier and more risk averse • what men and women regret about sex • BDSM, fetishes, and sexual violence • the women who sell sex and the men who buy sex • agency and volition in sex work • pornography: good or bad? • decriminalizing sex work.
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She should do a PhD on this topic. Has the data and passion for it.
Not really she doesn't understand the psychology or biology behind it.
I’m sure she has done some phds before
Women who look upon men as success objects should never object to being viewed as sex objects.
I applaud Michael for having this guest. I agree with some of what she said, but certainly not all. I think the internet has brought out stuff like prostitution that were more common in the past than we admit.
Wasn't expecting this one but glad to see it! She's such a unique person
Hookers are unique?
Thank you michel for interviewing her she’s such a wonderful and courageous lady.
Well that was one of the most interesting, informative and honest conversations I've heard in a long time. Thanks to both of you for that.
Prostitution by its very nature is a sad business.
I don't think that's necessarily true. I think that it is, at least in large part, our attitude to it that makes it a sad business.
Spending all day every day in a warehouse is sad. All day everyday taking burger orders is sad. All day every day in a depressing office passing the paper work a long is sad. All day driving a truck. I could go on and on.
This has a vibe that sex is one activity among any other. Is it? Is sex just like driving a car, or preferring red shoes, or taking a walk? I think it's more complicated. What about sex being a bonding ritual, or even an evolutionary bonding activity that creates familial protection?
Troubling: A man's responsibility is to quell a woman's self conscious anxiety by usurping a bit of control?
When a woman is in love, and doesn't feel judged, she naturally throws herself into lovemaking.
Does anyone think that overthinking can ruin good sex? She is definitely distancing sex from emotion. I wonder why she has completely turned sex into a Kinsey report. She is separating the emotional aspects of sex from performance.
People are different and relate to sex in different ways. Even though we might cluster around different attitudes and needs, we all have different preferences and hangups
What is important is to be honest to one self and pay attention.
Exactly the sex that can get sexual access easily says that it should be legalized or become the norm but doesn't realize what that brings on the male side. If it was one-sided I would understand but these women forget the male side. The one that pays for them. Women don't pay for sex work in general. She ignores the fact that men who are attracted to women like this are too weak to allow their wives or girlfriends to have intercourse with other men. If not then she has to accept being alone. And what woman wants that.
@@Thedeepseanomad Wrong men's psychology to sex is similar and female sexual psychology is similar. Or men wouldn't not have the same parts or women wouldn't have the same parts.
I don't think it's about anatomy. I think it's a whole person issue.
really enjoyable conversation
After the show Dr. Shermer be like "let me see you in my room for a moment please"
I wish she writes a book on this. Interesting interview.
A very refreshing invigorating conversation 🐝
Not really, she is trying to justify sex work. Its ok for her but no man wants to have their wife all over the internet.
@@Garett.1214 "...Its ok for her but no man wants to have their wife all over the internet...." Interesting generalization. But probably not true.
@@mmitleidt7969do you?
A simplistic outlook is problematic in many ways, and many of her views are over-simplistic. An example I will pick up on is the way we currently school children. We don't know what they will be doing for the rest of their life and we want them to be prepared as much as possible so we give them a whole range of subjects to learn. What the testing is meant to produce is how they are retaining information and general interest so we can adapt the teaching, but this part has been overlooked and in large, disregarded.
Some children either don't have the interest or the ability to learn what's been taught. We should do something different for them - but cost and standards don't allow so they have to conform. They end up hating school and dropping out. Even that is simplistic, but you get my drift.
The detail is important.
Also if I'm having anxiety and I ask you not to do something in the moment cuz I'm feeling self-conscious and you linger or say like, "yeah yeah i will" it drives me crazy and I get frustrated and even more preoccupied with my shit and out of the sexy mood
I'm entertained by Aella's perspectives, but not necessarily convinced. She clearly doesn't do much reading and has an oversimplified view of evolutionary psychology. I can't say whether or not she's "smart," but as with all things, there's an opportunity cost. Her time, effort, youth, and personal values spent doing her "career" is maybe time, effort, youth, and personal values not spent on reading, learning, and engaging with science, perspectives, and rationality.
I really do appreciate the overly simplified pop explanations for sex and porn but find it extremely lacking. I have the same conclusion that 99.9% of youtubers leave me with, the exceptions being Michael Shermer and my favorite authors/speakers, which is to read more books instead of trying to get advice and "information" online.
Currently I'm reading Jim Davies, Bryan Caplan, Richard Nisbett, Dan Gardner, Tyler Cowen, and re-reading books by Jared Diamond, Steven Pinker, Paul Ehrlich, Charles Wheelan, Edward Wilson, Deborah Tannen, and David Buss. I just don't understand how we live in a world of such privilege, access to information, wealth, and comfort, yet 99.99% of people spend their time watching sports, playing videogames, checking instagram/tiktok/whatever, or otherwise wasting time when there are such great authors and books available so easily...
I really find US women's culture disgusting. It's hard to describe without referencing the Madonna-Whore dichotomy, paternity uncertainty, opportunity costs, cultural anthropological perspectives like structural functionalism and latent functions of men's obsession with virginity/purity/youth, commitment strategies from Robert Frank's Passions within Reason, game theory, etc. etc. etc., but it's just almost astronomically insane how disgusting modern women dress, act, and behave. With as much trepidation as I can hopefully get across, I really hope that Islam, Mormonism, or some extremely conservative culture wins out and things reverse as much as humanly possible.
Reading Steven Pinker, playing video games and screwing hookers are not mutually exclusive buddy
Great to see these two talk. I first heard Aella talk when Destiny was talking with her. I liked that talk even more, and I think Shermer would have been interested in discussing that stuff too (misleading probabilities/intuition and other tricks of the brain)
Speaking of which, I wonder if Destiny will ever be on Shermer's show, which I'd like to see too. _I think_ Destiny has said that he doesn't like echo chamber discussions, but I'm sure there would be things that the two could adversarialy discuss, even if they don't necessarily disagree with each other much.
Just a thought: At 52:15 I don't think her anecdotal data there is necessarily very good (in regards to her idea that men who cheat are often unhappy in their marriage). It seems likely that the men she's talking to, who are honing in on the negatives of their relationship (telling her about the things they're unhappy about their wife not doing, for instance), or telling the callgirl negative comparisons with their wife, could simply be just them attempting to make relevant conversation and/or rationalizing to her their cheating behavior (an attempt to justify seeing a prostitute so that they don't come across as bad) rather than being an actual indicator that they're generally unhappy in their marriage. If I had a particularly good dinner at a friends house, for example, whereas I normally have my wife cook my meals, I may make comment of how I wish I ate this good at home, or complain that my wife never cooks this dish, etc. That, though, would just be me making conversation relevant to what we're currently doing.
I'm against it because I feel like the men paying for sex hurt a lot of people in their lives. I lived in Southeast Asia and my heart was ripped out and stomped on by my partner because of all of the very available sex workers. We were/are best friends. We had a good sex life. We are still together even after the two years of hell and lying I went through. :/ I feel like people are against it because it can even make a good man hurt people badly so the cultural implications suck. I feel most women are not against it because they can't imagine doing it they are against it because sex workers are essentially homewreckers that add insult to injury by also taking money and everything good while never having to deal with the bad parts of the man.
I love aella!!
TL;DR just because factory work can be traumatic and be taken advantage of, this doesn't make all factory work evil and traumatic.
Aella seemed like she was on something? I would have what she has.
Sounds like there is something to much speed on her way of talking....
@@claudiaschneider5744 could be speed
I know who her dad is. He has very little traction. The guy isn't sticky at all.
It's crazy what can happen in a few years. I haven't followed anything she's been doing and had no idea about any of this stuff, but I'll admit that I remember having a fleeting, fanciful thought about what it might be like if I had to deal with her dad on Christmases and Thanksgivings.
Interesting video.
Nice girl, smart too, I like her !😊
Yeah right. not really smart.
@@Garett.1214 Yeah, right, very smart ! ;)
@@putonghualandolin8110 Tell me how she is smart? She promotes a profession that is easy for women. She isn't trying to cure cancer.
@@Garett.1214 Bullshit ! First of all, it's not easy, second - she doesn't promote anything, she just tells about her experience and shares her opinion...You have to listen more carefully !
@@putonghualandolin8110 Who is it easier to get sex women or men? As a man you should know this.
Well cheating is not the norm here. And still being mostly a Christian nation, most women have been ingrained that this is not ok & have intense feelings around it whether or not they admit, Christian or not. She was kind of carefree with that thought. Knowingly having relations with married/partnered men, I feel carry’s it’s own baggage, can’t sugar coat it. But that is just my view. I had a very similar life experience to hers. I don’t regret it either. But, there are causes you make that have unforeseen ripple effects for yourself & others, particularly in this work. Especially when you’re dealing with hearts.
You women sell the possibility of sex for a man online and that can constitute coercion too. In some cases, if he is lonely and stupid, thinks he is a relationship. Sounds like women finesse men too.
I am somewhat conflicted with regards to the advent of websites like only fans. In one sense they both empower and protect the safety of sex workers, who have traditionally often been both exploited and victimized by both the customers and society. In another sense this new facility allows for the development and exploitation of para-social relationships. I'm not suggesting every only fans model exploits their customer base but the opportunity is there. I have no idea what the statistics might have to say in relationship to this but anecdotally there is clear evidence that exploitation exists And I cannot help but wonder whether or not only fans is a net positive or negative for society as a whole.
@@ode_to_apathy You could be right but you are making a claim Without evidence something I went to great effort to avoid in my original statement. I'm always extremely suspicious of people who make categorical claims like yours. Normally such people are strongly ideologically driven and have little real care for the actual data.
@@ode_to_apathy Not that I have any hope of changing your mind with logic but as it turns out only fans grew massively in popularity during the lockdown when many brothels were forced to close. During that time many sex workers discovered they could earn far more on line where it was possible for them to have hundreds or even thousands of clients. No one in their right mind would go back to working the street and accept such a massive pay cut. Such a person is both demonstrably safer and wealthier than they were prior to the lockdown.
Exactly they pretend to be interested in the guys giving them money and wonder why they get attached or want something more. If want to talk about psychology it not only affects women but greatly affects men think falsely that there can be something more. But of course, these women will say its men's fault for falling for a woman online that doesn't care about you.
Someone familiar with her work, i can tell she needs to be more productive😂😂
I don't understand why american elevates people like this.. 🤷🏻♂️
if you saw aella walking down the street not knowing what she likes to do, would you guess it? me neither.
You would smell it
theism atheism islam christianity gnostic agnostic etcetera , all dangerous tribalism , favouritism leads to conflicts . Only LOVE is relevant . Words from Jiddu K.
Pretty adorable to watch a Scientist parse out the meaning behind being "railed in a sun dress".
A little clickbaitey with the giant red "SEX" 🤣
Really really appreciate love respect all that was in this episode the conversation the vibe the respect and can not thank you both enough for this conversation this was the first episode of the Michael Shermer Show I've ever watched I seen the title of the episode and immediately picked it and I cannot give you enough appreciation I feel like conversations like this when people are coming from a human perspective and just being raw and real it's beautiful 💯🫂🤟🏻
She likes that easy money
Making money like this is just flat out sleazy and sloppy. Dignity and self-respect should be a priority in everyone's life. There are more honorable ways to make a living. Homeless men don't resort to doing this so the evidence is there that even poor men do not use this route in life to make their living.
"...Dignity and self-respect should be a priority in everyone's life. ..." And who decides which work is dignified and which is not? Apparently the young lady had first tried factory work and was very dissatisfied.
@@mmitleidt7969 Actually evidence an reason shed light on what dignified and self-respecting jobs are. Money and "satisfaction" is not a good criteria for determining that. Most people don't stick to factory jobs. They move up in life to other jobs after working in factories, but most never end up selling their bodies for that. I am sure you can make lots of quick money as a drug lord too, but that is also not dignified or self-respecting.
Pathetic
I have to agree with the previous commenter. You are assuming that she has no dignity or self-respect because you are judging her by your own standards. What is dignified and what demonstrates self-respect is not objective. I think we just have to look at current US politics to see that different people can have different ideas about those standards. If you decide what you do, when you do it and with whom you do it, what exactly is the problem? Your standards are based very much in the constructed morality of religion which, ironically, they like to claim is objective.
@@wunnell Its not arbitrary and there are consequences to those selfish practices. Not even religion plays a role per se. You said "If you decide what you do, when you do it and with whom you do it, what exactly is the problem?" This is such sloppy logic that of course gangsters, drug lords, predatory pornography, and all sort of vices are somehow allowable. Even adult-minor relationships are justified with your logic. Of course the law disagrees with your statement too which is why people get penalized and punished for such behaviors in the first place.
Jewish jewish jewish
from idaho?
@@tuckerbugeater the show
Nazi alert ⬆️
@@internetmoney221, so what? You say that as though we should assume something as a result. What is it that you think we should think?
Religion is poison . Theism and atheism and christianity and islam and gnostic and agnostic are not the truth . The truth is the unity in impartiality principle . Maturity .
Love Michael , love also Deepak Chopra . RUclips Deepak Chopra on humanity's insanity and the power of joy .
Deepak Chopra is a conman, making spiritual claims about science he doesn't understand and fooling people who understand it even less into thinking he's saying something deep and meaningful.
@@wunnell Sure Deepak Chopra says good helpfull words , about yoga . 90 % of what he says is good . Vasudev Sadhguru is also like Deepak .
@@alainmaitre2069 Sadhguru is simply a con man - nothing else.
@@claudiaschneider5744 . What is your evidence ? Con man ? Prejudice ?