How I Would Fix Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver are my favourite entries in the entire series. But are they perfect? Not by a longshot. And so, in this video, I take an in-depth look at the Johto remakes and outline how I would improve them.
...Honestly, I just wanted to talk about a game that I love. Is that so wrong?
Thanks for watching!
00:00:00 - Intro
00:11:25 - Part I - The Pokédex
00:45:27 - Part II - The Level Curve
00:58:16 - Part III - The Boss Fights
01:41:36 - Part IV - The Postgame 
Игры
The reason why your rival has a sneasel is because he stole it from that guy in Cianwood city who gives you the shuckle. He tells you that somebody broke into his house and stole his RARE Pokemon, and in the Rival fight that comes and in the very next rival fight, your rival suddenly has- you guessed it: a Sneasel.
Wow I have never heard that before! That is actually some really cool attention to detail!
I honestly just thought he had been on mount silver cause his name is silver
Wait, I thought everyone knew that! I put it together pretty easily as a kid playing Crystal, at least. I guess maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit
@@ZenModeYT
Also, because it NEVER hints at this at all, the original """""""intended""""""" order for the Kanto Gym Leaders is as follows, according to the PRIMA Guide that I *_totally_* read legally:
Lieutenant Surge
Sabrina, (who is totally stronger than E4 Will)
Misty
Erika
Janine
🅱️rock
Doctor Blaine
And Blue Oak, who couldn't even stay Champion for four hours before I assblasted him with a Venomoth.
Actually, it was just another shuckle@@ZenModeYT
I really wish they hadn't taken away Crystal's early Phanpy, Teddiursa, and Growlithe
For sure! My heart breaks for poor Phanpy every time. At least I finally got to use him in SV
Funnily enough, I used all 3 of them on my first Crystal playthrough alongside a Meganium, Fearow, and Politoed.
Can’t you get Phanpy right next to the first route
@@thevioletbee5879 Only in Crystal and in the morning.
Also Sneasel
For boss fights, surge is one of the few that actually does have a theme. Many of his pokemon have double team, highlighting the value of a move that never misses. It also plays into his character of a military leader, choosing reliability over power
Ah fair point! Could have given a better example, but I think the point still stands. But yeah, just because the theme isn’t revolving around the TM the gym leader gives, doesn’t mean there’s no theme at all. Thanks for pointing this out!
Man I hate fighting Surge in HGSS. Evasion spam is straight-up unfair.
Mind reader? Miracle eye? Gravity? Pokemon with never miss moves? Maybe you should just get better and not complain when the game throws warranted challenge at you. Or just don't play@@shiruotakuno28
@@shiruotakuno28i always loved it. Its like "ok you beaten lance, welcome to kanto Jhoto boy/girl." And then proceeds to stomp you.
If you have read the pokemon manga and has seen Surge as a member of team rocket, being a absolute chad you know what I mean.
I think it's acceptable for Lance to still team up with you at the Rocket hideout, just as the leader of the Elite Four instead of as the champion (which would still be a fun callback to the Kanto games) and he could still lecture Silver as well. Instead of just having Karen do it, Lance doing it could be, without changing his dialogue, an opportunity for the player to realize upon meeting Karen "oh, this is why he lectured Silver, it's because the person he lost to, the person he recognizes as the strongest, taught him this lesson". That might be a little much for a ten year old to re-parse on a casual playthrough, but it could add some subtlety without making too many derived changes aside from swapping Karen as the champion. Lance could even call himself the leader of the Elite Four, which might trick a player into thinking he's the champ, only to realize "wait, there's someone *stronger* than him?" at the end.
This is a great idea, i wish they had put some ref to the difference between Lance and Karen into the game
That's where I thought this video was actually going
Alternatively i think Lance can remain the champion if the story is written so that he basically went through a similar journey to Silver, going from the cocky trainer that relied on pure power back in Gen 1 to a more compassionate and wise one after he got humbled by Blue and Red, and shares his story with him.
Changing his lineup of Pokemon and moveset to reflect this of course, and honestly Tyranitar would also fit his motif of "technically not dragons but reptilian mons".
Personally, I like this change more than making Karen the champion
Don't get me wrong, I love Karen and Dark is my favorite type, but she doesn't have the aura or mystique around her that justifies her being a League champion, especially over someone like Lance
I see Karen more as a relative to Agatha who started out as a Ghost type trainer who eventually switched to Dark as her type of preference (kinda like how Jasmine was a Rock type Gym Leader before Steel was discovered), and her ideology about "strong Pokemon, weak Pokemon" can trace its origins back to her interactions with Agatha when she was a child
No need to give Karen Tyranitar as her ace, just have her team be a mix of Dark and Ghost types to reflect her upbringing as well as her current ideology as a Trainer
I agree with you, and even changing Lance's pokemon movesets could reflect that, maybe in his help against Team Rocket his Dragonite would have volatile moves like Hyper Beam, Fire Blast, Outrage and maybe Thunder?
And when you fight him as the champion the same Dragonite would still have Outrage but with a Lum Berry and having more appropiate moves like Wing Attack/Fly and Earthquake
32:15 For Clair, if you haven't cleared the Rocket Tower event, the guy next to the door will explain that Clair is training in the Dragon's Den. I would just add some "and" conditions to also include having Pryce, Chuck, and Jasmine's badges.
Zen mode...? You have gone too far. You don't know how much I love how far this has gone.
I kinda needed this time off today, so thanks a lot
Thank you so much for the very kind words ❤
Surge and Watson giving the same TM always felt lazy too me imo
11:53 I realised on my most recent playthough of soulsilver that Girafarig is not only viable, it kinda kicks this games ass a little. I'm now a massive girafarig fan
We love girafarig around here! I’m a sucker for mons that get the normal dual typing slapped on them (Sawsbuck, Helioptile, etc.). It makes them a bit more interesting!
@@ZenModeYT Normal as a dual type is sooooooooo interesting. It allows for any Pokémon to get a taste of that Normal TM pool & who hates STAB Return??? It can even give a ghost immunity which is huge for a Pokémon like Girafarig, who only trades it for a neutrality against the much less threatening Fighting type.
I was so disappointed when I was playing Crystal that I couldn’t get a Marpe or a Girafarig. So now I’m playing Gold too.
Girafarig is literally the freest of free answers into a gym leader I've ever seen. Literally just paralyze it before the battle and Morty can't do jack other than Curse you while you have super effective STAB on all his team.
Try breeding a smoochum for your next play through, jynx is insane into the late game
Making Karen the champion is an absolutely brilliant move. If there's any one thing I desperately want a romhack for, it's that.
I was a little skeptical of this after reading the comment before the video, but yeah it really makes sense.
And while the Dragonite hyperbeam scene for the rocket base is iconic, Tyranitar could definitely go hard as well.
having lance as a champion could also make sense if you think about it when he only focused on the strength of his pokemon in gen 1 he was stuck as a elite 4 member but in the 3 years after he lost to a 10 year old he could have realised the importance of the bond with the pokemon and that is how he became able to reach the spot of champion instead of a elite 4 member just because we didn't see his growth as a person or trainer doesn't mean he didn't grow in those 3 years
@@thomdrengen I read your comment and now the only thing I can think of is that if Blue/Gary/Rival beats Lance to become champion gen 1 and Lance gets demoted to elite 4, then who was the mystery elite 4 person who got kicked out to make room for Lance after he lost?
25:00 most jrpgs have this "you can now reach seen but out of reach chests now that you're in endgame" like you now have a flying mount etc. I don't think this is necessarily bad. If you put rock climbing mid game then there still needs to be something else to backtrack for imo
I think over Karen over Lance as the champion is a really interesting idea. But I don't think that Lance is, at least by the time of the Johto games, just some guy who prioritizes strength over all else. He passed the test in the dragon's den himself, proving that he cares for his pokemon just the same as the player did. If anything his dialogue in FRLG implies that while just prioritized power in the past, he later learned to form a bond with his pokemon and together they reached the level of champion. This is additionally compelling to me bc it sort of serves as a mirror to Silver's story, implying that Lance saw his younger self in Silver and wanted to push him in the right direction.
This is perfect, I've been slowly plucking away with a friend on making a HGSS rom hack of making it better over all while still making it feel like a Nintendo game and not a difficulty hack where every trainer is a hard wall, while we are only on documentation part this video will be a big inspiration, aswell as a very entertaining watch. Love your stuff man
Thanks so much for the support! ❤
That sounds like a great project. Is there anywhere I could get updated on it ?
Honestly a version where there are no hms and pokemon like meganium are buffed would be good enough for me
@@crylemite I second this!
@@Dipodomys7 I third this. I´d love a romhack that followed that description
“I am a slut for pixel art.” Is one of the greatest lines I’ve heard.
It's accurate for us DS/GBA Pokémon fans.
And cringe af. 3d animation is so underrated. It's weird everyone wanted it for so long
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 Bait
@@smergthedargon8974 Just because it's an opinion you've never heard before doesn't mean it's bait.
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69you should probably dash into traffic little mister cuckster McGhee 🤭
Nearly 2 hour long Zen Mode video on HGSS? Perfect way to start off the weekend!
You said that you wouldn’t be making this hypothetical game into a romhack (which is totally fair), but I have to say: if you were to make one, it would be amazing! This has to be my favorite take on the Johto region. Thanks for another amazing video!
Also Lance actually shouldn’t have a Kingdra because the difference between him and Cleaur is that Clair is a Sea Dragon tamer while Lance is a Sky Dragon tamer, which is why he doesn’t have Dragonairs anymore.
Did you get that from SmithPlays?
Gyarados
Why not an Ampharos?
@@joshuarodriguez7500 Who?
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 that’s actually a great idea
I've mentioned it before, but I'm really happy for this channel existing, to give perspective on the actual Pokemon games and how to make them more fun, as a casual fan myself who likes to dream up similar changes. And while I'm personally not a fan of the Johto games, I do actually appreciate some of the points you brought across (the vibrant overworld colours especially, I'd never really noticed). And just being chill and personable about liking these games in general, unlike other Johto fans I've seen.
And of course, I definitely agree with all of these gameplay changes, between the Pokemon distribution, the level curve fixes and the more competent boss fights. Also, getting to go to Blackthorn right out the gate was a bit of a shock, but I'm a huge advocate for better team flexibility earlier on, so I approve.
But my favourite part of this video was the decision to make Karen the champion, that was such a surprise and I loved it. I'd never even considered that Lance was out-of-character in Johto, but I definitely agree that Karen fits better with the story that the games were trying to tell.
Thanks so much for the support! Glad you enjoyed 😊
With all the Johto-bashing that modern Pokemon fans seem to do, I was worried this was going to be another video like this. Far from it. You *get* the Johto region and what makes it so incredible in a way that I think modern Pokemon fans do not and maybe cannot understand. A peaceful, beautiful sandbox bursting with content that values all Pokemon from the mighty Lugia and Red Gyarados to humble Farfetch'd and Slowpoke for what they bring to the Pokemon world.
Beautifully said. This is why the Johto games (original and remakes) remain my favorites. No idea where it suddenly became so popular to hate on these once beloved games.
I feel like Pokémon fans have the tendency to over exaggerate their opinions when discussing the series as whole to where nuanced conversation is nonexistent.
For me, I think hgss are good games but I do feel like there are better entries.
This is exactly why Johto is my favorite region. No high-stakes end of the world nonsense. Just a humble cozy region just going about its day.
@ As someone who started with Gen 2, I can definitely say I have certain biases towards it, especially since Crystal is what got me started into software engineering and game development, at age 10. However, there are also some things that are objectively missing from later Pokemon games, which, if that's the kind of stuff you were looking for from an RPG game, you'd especially notice is missing now, and would sour the experience.
The biggest example I can give now is how linear and empty the level design of the games have gotten over time, especially since the games went 3D. If you put the remakes and reimaginings aside (ORAS, Let's Go, BDSP), since their level design is going to match the original games, you can absolutely notice how bland the level design has gotten each generation since Gen 5. I still think BW2 are really good games, and are probably right behind HGSS in terms of being considered "the best" games, but it's undeniable that the start of the overbearing linearity and handholding got its freshest start in Gen 5, with BW1. To begin with, progression pre-League is literally a straight line on the map. It might be a jagged straight line but, the right half of the circle of Unova is closed until the post game, so there's virtually no deviation from just forward progression starting with this game. All the HMs are optional starting with this game, so, you'll never once be tasked with solving a Strength-based boulder puzzle, or be asked to pay attention to your surroundings for which rocks you can use Rock Smash on, or anything like that. There are still some small ice puzzles left, or Chargestone Cave, but otherwise, everything that would require an HM or environment manipulation is optional. The fact that any of it still exists, however, is more than can be said than later games, because once it went 3D, is when the level design got even worse than this. Now, there's no more HMs at all, and nothing really replacing them either, so all these sort of environment interactions and minor puzzle solving are now gone. No reason to return to an area once you've been through the first time anymore, because there are no new nooks and crannies to reach that you couldn't earlier in the game.
To me, that sort of exploration and deeper level design missing is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART of the Pokemon experience for me, and is virtually impossible to just strip away and expect a good game anymore. They started focusing more on the stories since Gen 5, but sacrificed actually exploring a world in the process because of it, and that just makes the games incredibly boring for me. Pokemon's stories have always been, and probably always will be just okay at best, so if the story isn't going to be that engaging, the actual gameplay MUST pick up the slack. Well if the gameplay is just going to be a hallway simulator the rest of the time, and with the majority of battles being so easy, you can literally just mash A through the whole game and be overleveled, what's the point in playing? It is for this reason, that I think the older Pokemon games are still the best actual RPG experiences in the series.
@@megamasher3I think it came from people using johto to bash on the newer games which in turn give people who like the newer games a bad perception on johto
My goodness, this was a trip to watch ! I approve of the Rock Climb so, so much. I'll never understand how this HM move was locked so far away into the post-game for no reason whatsoever. The level curve has been a glaring weakness for the Johto games, and when I delved into trying to improve the original games myself (that never came to pass as the softwares I used were outdated and actually stopped functionning altogether), I tried to make the levels progressively higher and higher throughout the game, to the point where Lance's best Dragonite (I mean, Pokémon) would be at level 60 instead of 50. As for the path branching out, I feel like being able to fight Pryce much earlier could catch players off guard a bit too quickly, given the level cap he has. At the same time though, that makes him the first example of a fight that was intended to be fought much later in your adventure.
All the flaws you've pointed out in HGSS are some of the reasons I much prefer the original Gold/Silver games despite the remakes being very good improvements. To this day, I am still miffed at the fact we can't access the Sevii Islands since Fire Red & Leaf Green. Admittedly, I do think it might be more trouble than it's worth to include them and it wouldn't make sense to include them in HGSS, but I really loved the detour in Fire Red, so much that I'm wishing for its return ! But that's my teenage self speaking its mind though.
Regarding Lance, I do think that while he could still be as cocky as his Fire Red self, three years between it and HGSS would make him humble enough to still be able to teach Silver a lesson about friendship. He's from the Dragon's Den clan, and seeing how they give you a Dratini with Extremespeed if your answers to their questions veer towards friendship, I don't see a problem with Lance helping you out in Mahogany. I am not disapproving of Karen helping out against Team Rocket (in fact I think the idea of an ally using Dark-type Pokémons against an Evil organization to be quite funny), but I think Lance still has a place there. Like, both him and Karen could team up with you to take down Team Rocket, and to accommodate for them both, the enemy's team levels would be upped higher.
One suggestion I would have made regarding Lance's Elite Four battle though is to give either his Dragonair the move "Extremespeed" as a subtle hint that yes, he did pass the friendship test. Narratively, his Dragonite could be the same as the one we've known from back in Fire Red, but along the way, he could have gone through the Dragon's Den test to prove his maturity, and he succeeded with the presence of his Extremespeed Dragonair being in his Elite Four team. Would that suggestion make him a character similar to Blue, in the sense that both are arrogant persons but with a heart of gold hidden somewhere ? Probably. But I do think it's worth exploring a bit.
Overall though, I love all these ideas, especially the Pokémon availability expansion !
Ooh I do like that extreme speed suggestion a lot. If they kept him as champion, that would have been a great touch!!
Giving the Dragonair extreme speed is a genius move lore wise and I fully agree on the Sevii isles, I am spending a lot of time on those in my fire red version and they will forever be part of my pokemon journey.
If thye could be added to the game, I want them to have a few extra things tho. Because there is admittedly not a lot to do on them with all the content the ds games already have.
It could be that every island has a pokemon contest or an alternate athlon mini game, nothing too big but still there for the real ones you know.
I just don't know what to do for Navel Rock, maybe a Manaphy and Jirachi event? Assuming you can get all other legendaries and mythicals with either a Johto and a Sinnoh game.
Some thoughts:
- your new encounter tables for both items and pokemon are rock solid. Love the approach of everyone is available, but at varying capacity based on how impactful they are to a team.
- I think that your solutions to level curve are about as good as they could be for a vanilla-esque Johto region
- Falkner, Morty, Jasmine, Pryce, and especially Chuck are great updates to team comps. That Heracross set rocks, Chuck and Falkner gain a lot of character, some great changes.
- The whitney changes are just fine and the bugsy change honestly would be a little over tuned. I think that Bugsy would be the new Whitney with that squad lol.
- I agree that Claire doesn’t need much, she’s probably the best characterized and tuned leader not named Whitney from the base games
- I think the E4 has mostly positive changes, maybe a tad difficult for the vanilla feel- we would love it but I think that the majority of fans would actually find them to be too much
- I LOVE the idea of Karen being the champion. I never loved double dragon trainers as two of the top trainers, and Karen might be one of the most memorable non-champion E4 members of all time. Karen is a great foil to Silver, can’t believe I’ve never heard this take before, it’s awesome.
- My only gripe with what you purposed for the Karen change is that her iconic opening dialogue has gotta stay as the opener, it’s already perfect champion talk.
- Seriously Lance sucks and the visual of him getting swept by a Tyranitar rocks
- Respect for just like throwing your hands up at the post game, it’s a mess, and needs probably twice the love you just gave Johto. The silver changes are cute and it’s a great skill check before Red.
- someone please RomHack a ZenModeSilver or something I wanna play this now
Overall, great video!!!!! I love that these series clearly come from a deep appreciation of the games and their design philosophies. It’s cool that rather than walk back most decisions your approach is to compound upon them with pre-established themes. Would absolutely love to see this series continue :-)
lance is a beast and part of what makes this gens champ fight memorable for a lot of people :^) esp as kids
So I actually did most of the voiceover before actually playing, so you don’t hear most of my thoughts after actually testing it out. Bugsy was definitely a bit too tough, I’d probably unevolve Ledian into Ledyba.
I was also worried about Karen not being challenging enough but she actually swept me with Nasty Plot Houndoom lol.
As for the post-game, yeah, I just felt this video was long enough and it’d be a bit exhausting to tackle it in-depth.
Appreciate the in-depth reply and the kind words! ❤
If someone reaches out to Smith Plays Pokemon they could do it. They remade crystal with a romhack and are remaking yellow right now, ask them to collaborate and do this next. Personally I think this channel has better ideas and concepts, they could benefit from your input
@@ZenModeYT 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
@@ZenModeYT why would you wanna nerf bugsy?
I've never thought of Karen as the Champion before. But i will say that is pure genuis!
Like i cannot unsee it now. It makes so much sense! Hats off to you sir. This will be forever part of my own head cannon as well lol.
Johto victory road being empty, i know it was because of lack of space in the original game, but i used to interpret it as "no one has reached this far, you are here alone.." and i thought that was cool.
Anyways this is an excellent video Zen!!
As a HGSS gameplay hater and sprite based following pokemon, HGSS tileset and Johto vibes lover, this is one of the best videos I've seen on this app
I will say in defense of Lance, that I get the impression that his new attitude probably came about as a result of his battles with Red and Blue. It was never really stated outright in any of the games, but I feel like it makes a lot of sense. He watches two young and talented trainers overcome him in quick succession (which I'm sure even on its own has got to be a pretty humbling experience), and then the battle between the two of them is ultimately settled because Red understands these things and Blue does not, as Professor Oak says. I think in a lot of ways that experience is the clear defining difference between him and Clair, and proof that he's grown since RBY.
Something about Gen 3 Surge i noticed while watching this is that with his love for Double Team spam he functions as an advertisement for the Shockwave TM he gives you for defeating him.
I will say to be fair to Lance, his team is mainly pokemon that you would have to raise with patience vs just being raw power. Magikarp and dratini are difficult pokemon to really raise into the powerhouses they become. Plus its also a few years after he has lost to both Blue and Red, so its an easy narrative thoughline to say that he was humbled by defeat and went back to the Dragon's Den and really learned from the elders there to create better bonds with his team allowing them to ascend to champion. This creates a contrast with Claire who is like pre development Lance and also why the elders tell her to reflect on her loss, hoping she will grow like her cousin did. It also gives a better reason why Lance giving Silver that critique is in character, Silver is making the same mistakes he once did and he is trying to use his experience to guide him to the right path quickly. Since these are sequels to Kanto, a humbler and more crafty Lance works as a bit of character growth. Just because Lance as a trainer decides to rock up with 3 Dragonites doesn't make his comments about loving his pokemon hypocritical (again he had to train 3 pseudo legends to Dragonite status which clearly shows a commitment to them if nothing else.)
Ayy just the comment I'm looking for. His view of Lance stood out as weird to me due his hyperfixation of Lance's characterization in Red Blue. Sure we don't see the transition like we do with Silver but it's not hard to believe that Lance changed in the 2 years between Gen 1 and 2. Like you said Lance lost to Red and Blue back to back which is point that was brought up in Pokemon masters. In Pokemon masters Lance is consistantly characterized as a mentor who remind other not to focus solely on strength. He states that after beated by Blue then seeing Blue beaten by Red, title of the strongest isn't important to him anymore instead he now focuses on growth
I guess I wish we got more hints at his growth. Someone left a genius comment saying that his ace dragonite should show extreme speed, referencing the dratini you can get if you pass the dragons den test. This would imply that Lance has also passed and does indeed raise his pokemon with love and care!
Totally agree with this assessment. That section of the video regarding Lance is the one part i didn’t agree with. Otherwise, the other changes he proposed were quite good.
You know, I was hesitant going into this video because a lot of people repeat the same criticisms ad nauseum, but you seem to actually _understand_ the flaws you're talking about.
Like how the level curve in itself isn't a problem, but rather the tools to player of given it _meet_ the level curve. Or the criticism of the gym leaders not using exclusively Johto mons, while in reality it should only matter if they have a strong team.
Kinda like how BDSP making the gyms and League tougher isn’t inherently a bad thing. But they don’t provide some tools for players to meet that, since you can’t EV train as easily and there are some items you just can’t get before then. Your main edge will be the Power of Friendship (quite the anime trope)
25:38 It also gives you a few Pokémon from other regions via special headbutt trees, but it's not explained anywhere.
Clamurai is such a great nickname for a Kabuto
Actually, since you mentioned the idea of Red being "you in a past game", what would've been neat is if you connected your Johto game to the most recent Kanto game, Red's team gets replaced by your actual team from Kanto in a secret base style custom battle. With an option to fight GF's made team.
You just gave me the funny image of Masuda waiting at the peak of Mt. Silver instead of Red lol
Hello, been silently watching your videos, and while I don't agree with a small few of these takes, i'm so glad that you didn't shoehorn Mewtwo into Red's team. That bit of fanon was what irks me a little due to it feeling like a cheap way to increase his team's difficulty, and i've just never liked the idea of adding a legendary Pokemon on his team of gift Pokemon.
One disagreement I had was the idea that while the Ice Path should be accessible, I think it'd be a better idea to block the player from reaching Blackthorn within the cave itself instead of leaving it accessible- the explanation possibly being that the lower portions of the cave collapsed, so they're clearing the tunnel out so that people can, well, pass through. In exchange, the encounters accessible from the Blackthorn side of Route 45 could have their levels increased to help with some teambuilding and level-grinding.
Regardless, the video was quite lovely and I really like Karen as champion.
I am so so so happy you've chosen to create a new series! You are a very talented video creator, and your scripts are great. Can't wait to see what video ideas you have in the future, keep pushing yourself. Thank you for the monolith of a video :)
Wow thank you! The kind words help a ton :)
@@ZenModeYT just finished your video, and thank you for the upload. Very respectful, with many well thought out and meaningful changes. But the best part is, you never slap on a big cure-all, such as adding in the fairy type or all the pokemon introduced in later games. Your changes are always nuanced, and that makes your videos really special.
Glad to see someone else thinking like this. People always want to fix the pokemon, but sometime it's the region that needs help. Would love to pick your brain on Hoenn and Sinnoh sometime.
This would make for a great romhack, honestly. I especially love the idea of Kanto leaders using fully evolved Pokemon from Sinnoh that didn't really get all the love they deserved in Diamond and Pearl especially
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who wished the Odd Egg was in HGSS.
Also, I'm happy to say my pokewalker is very much still in use!
Nice lol I lost mine like 10 years ago haha
I found mine before I moved but lost it again 🥲although it was basically useless since I reset the save file on the DS since then. Apparently you have to reset both at the same time?? I was also a kid at the time so maybe there is a way to reset the pokewalker and I just didnt know
Just looked it up, apparently there is a way to reset just didnt figure it out as a kid 😅 i guess if I ever find it I can reset it. I think my egg togepi was the pokemon I transferred since it was always so weak when I used it as a kid and thought it sucked lol
@jay.rsingh2530 there's a way you can reset it. I can't remember how off-hand, but you can do some sort of button sequence to reset it. Mine has had a bit of a battering, including going through the washing machine accidently at one point 😅 miraculously, after drying out in a bag of rice for a day, 7 years after that unfortunate incident it's still going strong!
@@Ospyro3em wow that’s insane 😂 I’ll look for mine and my abandoned togepi 🙈
FIXING A WHOLE GAME??? Oh we are SEATED for this feature film!
😂 thank you haha
My man didnt cook on this video, he fucking baked a chefs kiss type cake of a video
damn this is making me want to create pokemon zen crystal with these changes
just want to say the most overlooked whitney strat that i’ve yet to see anyone use is to get heracross using headbutt trees, learn brick break by level up at 19 and buy swords dance from the voltorb flip. set up on clefairy and sweep. great video though. im excited to see more.
Can’t wait to watch this, HGSS is kind of like XY to me where they were so close to perfection but some glaring flaws they have hold it back a little. Even so it’s probably one of the more cozy feeling Pokémon games with its graphics and Music, makes me think I’m always too harsh on it.
I feel the same about Gen 7 specifically. Literally if you could just press start to skip cutscenes I’d probably consider it my favourite game!
@@ZenModeYTIt's the same with Gen. 4 for me. Like I wanted to say it's an perfect Pokemon game because of the changes of mechanics and few other things that has become staple to the series like the Physical/Special split for example. But there are some glaring flaws that keeps it from being an perfect Pokemon game. Like the slowness, the limits of Pokemons, overbundents of HM'S, etc. I appreciated the things it has going for. But there rooms to be improved on.
I know this isn't supposed to be a rom hack. But I would love to play through this version you've made after not playing all these years. All changes sounds wonderful, and would still be a great nostalgic walkthrough
You are my hero. I rarely ever agree with other channels opinions on "fixing" the games, but I can't help be amazed at how perfect your solutions always seem to be.
There is a huge amount of happiness I got just from seeing the thumbnail and duration of this video. I can't begin to explain how much the things you said about HGSS in the introduction resonate with me. HeartGold and SoulSilver are both my favorite pokémon games and the ones I think are the best in the whole franchise (Which is not the same thing). To see someone appreciate the sheer amount of charm these games have as much as I do made me very happy. I've only just started the video, but I'm happy these games get the attention they deserve.
EDIT: I am currently working on making a rom hack out of these suggestions. More news soon.
EDIT2: Changes so far
_Fixed exclusive Pokémon and impossible evolutions. I know these were not a part of the video but that's because this video was about making an actual game where trade evolutions would be possible. There's no point in keeping trade evolutions on a rom hack where you cannot trade. Some exclusive pokémon from both versions were included for the same reason.
_Fixed HM locations and badge requirements according to the video.
_Goldenrod's Lottery Prizes were changed from Balls to Evolution Stones according to the video. The rest of the prizes remain the same.
Will update in the future. I should probably change this to someplace more visible, but I don't know where. It would be easier if Zen Mode had a discord, but it's whatever.
I find it strange that a highly technical item like a dubious disc is found at the bottom of Mt. Mortar.
Think it might be a bit more interesting or poetic as to having the upgrade obtainable initially in Goldenrod Radio Tower as a symbol of the tower's technology, and the Dubious disc also found in Goldenrod's Radio Tower later during the Rocket takeover to show its corruption.
This would mean that the item found at Mt. Mortar should be replaced with something else, maybe a razor fang/claw, but just some food for thought
True that would be so good for the dubious disk! I guess I didn’t give it much thought since the problem was already solved for me once we had rock climb access. But great suggestion!
I wish we could bypass trade evolution by ridiculously high level or other conditions.
I never realized that Karen being champion made so much sense
My man is moving on the entire games! You love to see it, can't wait to watch this one!
i got so happy when you mentioned the lucky egg farming, the first time i farmed for it, was on a finished playthrough of SS, and since then i been trading it between my other gen 4 games to always have the extra exp when starting a new game
Karen as the champion is intriguing, and I like your reasoning. I think, regarding Lance's arrogance, time has passed in-universe since R/B so it's not out of the question that he may have mellowed. He has been humbled by at least 2 challengers (Red and Blue), three if you include Karen. It's not unreasonable that being bested by three challengers who clearly use Pokémon they've bonded with might have caused some introspection, leading to the somewhat more sagely advice he gives in Johto. He's trying to teach Silver from his own mistakes, as he perhaps sees a part of his former self in him.
btw great video as always, I love the rational approach taken when redesigning parts of the game whilst keeping the core aspects intact.
Random and minor nitpick but the reason for that spot in Cherrygrove City having Rock Climb isn't the nugget but rather that it has a special Headbutt tree that you can encounter Taillow at. There are several Headbutt trees in the game that have special encounters for Gen 3/4 Pokémon with the ones in Johto being gated behind Rock Climb.
The funny thing is, I always went and fought the Elite 4 the second time. It wasn't until I started watching Nuzlockes that I learned you could skip them and go straight to Red.
Why would you skip 5 strong trainers with 5-6 pokemon? Skip them and you end up doing like 5 more hours of grinding.
Fixing Johto has become kind of an art in recent years, with there not being many objective, universal change everyone agrees upon (like sure, Whitney might make good use of a new team member. but should she have Teddiursa, Furret, Aipom or Jigglypuff?) and everyone who gives it a shot does so with their own arguments, philosophy and personal imprint. So, as an enjoyer of your previous content, this was a really nice treat! Props for the thing with the champ, an unexpected and pleasant surprise. Can't wait for whatever you come up with next!
This is exactly the video I’ve been looking for forever. I love the open and in-depth discussion about this game, one of my favorites of all time. Thanks for making this amazing video!
Thanks for this amazing comment :)
Great video! I understand it's a lot of work, so I don't blame you for not making a romhack for all these changes, but watching this video really made me want to play one, hope somebody takes these ideas for a project!
honestly i think my favorite part about hgss is that your pokemon gets to follow you around and you can turn around and talk to it! i know they did eventually reintroduce this in the lets go games and scarlet and violet, but it doesnt feel the same as these games, not to mention i really do miss being able to see one of my mons walking happily alongside me in other games, like black and white or platinum. it also just overall helps the game feel more immersive. i do agree that the level curve is insane though, how do you jump from a level 60 level cap with blue to a level 88 level cap with red??
"I love these games with all my Heart and Soul" AYYYEEEE I see what u did there.
So just finished this. And it’s absolutely awesome. Great job. And your ending speech was just so great.
I am excited to see what you have cooking up next.
Until then have a great day:)
Thanks so much! Your kind words really help! ❤
@@ZenModeYT no problem at all. I honestly think we all need a little more positivity in our lives.
Besides it’s the least I can do for you providing such quality content for free.
After years of theorizing about my own game concepts, I actually turned my fantheorying (I use spreadsheets instead of videos) into a full romhack of Crystal that I think you might really like called Pokemon: Cubic Crystal! We share a similar ethos about wanting to keep the feel of Johto, adding more team diversity options early, and incorporating Karen more into the story; for me, she replaces Eusine and has a little arc where she gets so wrapped up in hunting a legendary beast that she forgets what made her love Pokemon in the first place, and relearns through you. I even have Lance give you Strength in Rocket Hideout, strangely enough (although using that to gatekeep Ice Path early on is so flippin cool). The big change is that rather than lean into the Johto dex being weak, I sought to pretty much buff everything to an equal-ish level of strength, improving movepools and stats and typings and such to really lean into the idea of "all of these mons are strong, so pick your favorites!"
I know you say you're uninterested in making a romhack, and it's especially difficult to do so post-Gen 3, but as someone else whose hobby is creating game concepts, it's super super rewarding to actually make one! I'd give it a try, especially in early gens, given your knack for improving movesets.
(Also, the rival stole Sneasel from the dude in Cianwood who gives you Shuckle. He tells you that his Pokemon was stolen, and the only new mon in the rival's team that fits the bill is Sneasel. But I guess that means that Cianwood guy was spelunking in Mt. Silver!)
MAN THOUGH. YOu're not WRONG about the fact that Karen should be the true Champion of Johto - you said the words, and I knew them in my heart to be ABSOLUTELY true. You have such an excellent eye for narratives, and it always fills me with joy, because it feels like you offer your thoughts on a game based on the heart of the story it wants to tell. It's got a sparkle to it.
I share the same sentiment about Pokémon Games now in my old age of 28. I appreciate them more now that I’m older, and definitely have more fun replaying the same games I enjoyed as a kid
"But we don't have access to the Fly HM yet, so most fliers are relying on mediocre moves like Wing Attack" Wing Attack does more damage in the same time and unlike Fly will not miss unless there's accuracy/evasion shenanigans
Man that was definitely legends johto in the making!! FANTASTIC VIDEO
I loved this video so much!
Making Karen the champion is actually so genius, I can’t believe I’ve never heard anyone suggest that before!
And your point about the weaker regional dex has actually inspired me to replay soulsilver with a team of weaker Pokemon, I’ve used Meganium for the first time recently and actually loved it to the point it may now be my favourite Johto starter, so I’d love to use it again along side Pokemon like Ledian and girafarig who I’ve always liked design wise but never used either due to weak stats or in girafarigs case being a part normal type single stage mon
Keep up the great work, loving your content and would love to see more videos like this one!
Meganium is my favourite Pokemon. It's not always easy to use, but can be an incredibly useful Pokemon.
Honestly, these changes are fantastic. I know you said this wasn’t a thing you’d plan to create as a real romhack, but it honestly sounds fantastic as one. I really hope you or someone else can implement changes like this so we can all play a sincerely perfect johto experience
I loved all the changes you did, i liked how you tried to avoid losing the pokemon essence unlike some romhacks that only do "the more, the merrier" kind of thing
I agree that Lance shouldn't be the champion, but I think there should be some character development for him. After losing to blue, then red, and finally Karen and being relegated to 2nd strongest should have him rethinking his outlook on life and pokemon battling. He's arrogant yes, but not an idiot imo. He's honorable and very skilled at battling (supposedly) so it would be interesting to see him go through something like that or at least have it reflected in his dialogue. Great video!!!
This will probably be buried at this point: but a small boon of early ice cave is actually getting to take advantage of the Totodile line's physical stat. Yes, HGSS have the physical/special split; but without egg moves their only physical Water moves are Aqua Tail at an absurd level 54, and Waterfall, which is in the Ice Cave.
Normally that means you get physical stab after most of the game and right before the dragon gym where it's useless, but now you get to actually use your physical water type as a physical water type!
True I made Gyarados even more busted than he already was lol
@@ZenModeYT Also true, but tbf it gets Aqua Tail at level 35 in those games and the Lake of Rage Gyarados is caught already level 30, so it's not that much earlier water stab
Omg a new video ❤ I just finished watching all your videos after somebody recommended your parts video
I really enjoy your content, and this video was no exception. I find it interesting that a lot (though not all) of your ideas are actually present in Drayano's Sacred Gold and Storm Silver Rom Hacks. The increased difficulty definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea, and they makes a lot more than just the Johto+Kanto Dex available, which itself isn't an issue with the type of hack they were making. It's very close to my ideal version of Johto, due to the smoother level curve and increased availability and viability of virtually every Pokemon, and the increase in difficulty to match that. Almost everything that made Johto special is preserved, which I greatly appreciate.
Why do people never consider that villains could have a crobat because they ykno...stole it....
Yeah I guess that’s true, since we’ve never seen him beforehand with a golbat. Good point!
@@ZenModeYT I liked the video though I watched it all. Johto is good but the gameplay part really sucks and I wish the games would get remade (again) to have that part fixed
I can't agree with Karen being the Champion. She is a virtual nobody in the plot. The only reason she is remembered is because of her quote when you defeat her. Otherwise, she is completely forgettable as a character. Even using Dark types can't save her. Plus her pre-battle dialogue is pretty damned cocky. It doesn't work.
Lance's character is shown not only during the Rocket Hideout, but also during the champion battle as well. He acknowledges how you care for your Pokemon and makes it known that it is how you have claimed victory. So what if he is using 3 Dragonites? If anything, Lance's team is a perfect way to tie up the themes of HGSS. He has a very powerful team of Pokemon at his disposal and the player will more often than not have much weaker Pokemon at their side. Using these Pokemon to take on some of the most powerful encapsulates the bonds you forge with your Pokemon throughout the game. Using the power of friendship to overcome otherwise insurmountable odds. Plus no matter how you swin
One of your arguments against Lance being Champion is because of his attitude in FRLG. 3 years have passed since then and he has shown to have humbled since then. At no point in HGSS (or GSC) is Lance being a cocky son of a bitch. He doesn't even talk about his strength, mostly talking about yours. If you pay attention to his dialogue, he is a genuinely caring person. GSC and HGSS gave Lance the character development he lacked in RBY and FRLG since he was just a one-off character. The lack of character development Lance had in Gen 1 is not fair to compare to his Gen 2 character (which he actually has).
In addition, every Pokemon game you meet up with the Champion during the plot in some way or another. Whether it's the Rivals you encounter in Gens 1, 7, and 9; or meeting up with them like Cynthia or Alder. The Champions are intertwined with the plots just as much as the Rivals are. Karen has absolutely zero plot relevance in GSC and HGSS. You also can't exactly swap her or Lance either since Karen doesn't give the same aura of presence that Lance does. She is VERY bland in terms of design. She is just an older Beauty class trainer. Every Champion you face has some sort of presence that is given whether it be their design or their presence in the plot.
Karen has been blown up to be this character who seems to be this kind and understanding person when in reality, she was just as cocky as Lance (if not more than him) back in Gen 1. Lance is just the better overall choice for Champion because the 3 year gap allowed him to grow. Plus this was in the era where Pokemon was seen as just a fad that would pass. So this is why you have so many returning characters in GSC and HGSS. Having an "established" character being used as Champion worked better than some nobody we have no attachment to.
Sorry for the word vomit, but just wanted to get my thoughts out. Towards the end I was more or less mashing thoughts together as much as possible since I was also rather tired. Great video otherwise!
Oh shoot new Zen Mode video lets gooo
Another incredible video, this time on my favorite games in the series. You did a damn good job by going into details & giving strong explanations. Some tweaks here and there that I would do a little differently, but top-notch work as always. I love that you deviated from the videos that you normally make, you went a little Alola on us by trying something different and it didn't disappoint!
The Lance hate is nuts lol.
i love how you go out of your way to catch your pokemon in the regular pokeball, i always feel so weird for being so specific about things like that (or like an even gender ratio among my team, really fitting meaningful nicknames, etc) but i see there are fellow kindred spirits out there after all
every vid you put out has been gold, love this addition!
honestly as fun as all your videos are i think this is my favorite to date. got a little misty eyed there at the end
This is the first of your videos that I'm watching. Changing the Campion from Lance to Karen is nothing short of genius. Why hadn't anyone else thought of it before? I look forward to marathoning your future videos on how you would fix other Pokemon games.
dude, besides everything in the video, i had chills during a lot of moments of you speaking, like the Karen explanation, or the Red fight, great video, it made me feel like a child again, you're great!
nice vid man, excited to see you tackle more games! personally ive always thought it was thematically appropriate for surge to give you the no-miss shock wave as his tm since he's notorious for having double team on all his mons
incredibly thoughtful work! it's clear you care a lot about these games and i love so many of the choices you came up with, great vid!
This was such a well thought out video! I love rethinking Pokemon games I love so I'm glad you've done the same. I'd love to see something like this in a sequel to the Johto games or a future game, especially with Karen being champion; it just feels right!
The DS era was the peak of Pokémon in my opinion. Platinum, HGSS, BW 1 _and_ 2. Absolutely unsurpassed before and since
I love these games and the tweaks you made in this video. Towards the end of last year I finished my first replay of Pokemon Black, I think the game has aged really well so I’d love to hear your thoughts on it.
HGSS is hard for me to replay, I’ve done it a couple times but haven’t finished it a second time. The most off putting thing is that the leveling system makes having a full team of Pokemon to level up a chore; I genuinely feel if it had the balancing of Black and White it’d be easier to replay on original hardware.
Amazing work as always. Seriously, you have the best Poketube channel I’ve ever seen. I love your work, and I’m glad you take the time you need to produce fantastic videos like this.
Also, I’d love to play a romhack that implements these changes! It would be super cool, I hope someone makes it someday.
Really good video man!! I would defiantly love to see this become a series
It will! But this took me so long that I can probably only do one of these per year haha. Still, I loved making it, and glad you enjoyed it :)
Awesome video I would love to see you do a Heargold and Soulsilver romhack with all of these changes in this video!
Your comment on both gen 4 games level curve is precisely why I despise replaying them. Sinnoh in particular is very slow in many aspects, and Jhoto just... Asks for like 20 levels out of nowhere, and you have to farm pokemon on level 20 a thousand times to get to level 40, while the gym has level 50s
I like your videos and loved this one. A lot of cool ideas and concepts. Changing the champion surprised me in a good way, I love that idea. I'm waiting to see the next part fixing another game.
Seeing you, my favorite poketuber make an amazing 2 hour video on my favorite, most nostalgic video game of all time is the best way my friday night can end. I've watched every one of your videos. In fact, i can still remember seeing the chikorita video recommended to me out of nowhere when it was your only video. Keep making content, I haven't watched a video i didn't love yet.
Wow thank you haha I’m not planning on stopping! (Although I do take breaks when life gets in the way :/ )
Lovely discussion please keep up the amazing content. I love the introspection on your part as well so relatable.
Another great and creative video! Your idea to redistribute the HMs and improve self-determined exploration is fire! It's something that I think all Pokémon games would greatly benefit from. Your redistribution of late game monsters is also quite clever. I love anything that further takes advantage of the day and night cycle or special areas like Ilex Forest and Ice Cave. Gyms 5, 6, and 7 have had their teams beautifully remade. You really understand the subtly and power of design and intention.
You hit the nail in the head with the "favourite Pokemon game is the one that you are most likely to get immersed in" as that is exactly the case with me and Black and White.
They are easily my most played Pokemon games, multiple playthroughs with a wide variety of teams and I'm always so invested, whether its in my team or the characters, the plotline and especially the soundtrack. Sure, the sequels are fantastic games and the 'definitive' Gen 5 games and, if you forgive my bias, the definitive games of the entire franchise but i prefer the Original Black and White because I get more immersed and invested while playing them (B2W2 are still my #2 favourites though and I definitely still get immersed in playing them too)
Right, now that's been said, I've got a 2 hour video to finish watching!
Love this video Zen. So much careful thought into this.
I'm sick today so this video came out at the perfect time for when I need a nice, long, cozy video
Aw thanks :) and hope you feel better soon!
Your genuine passion for these games AND what they stand for is what really sets you apart from other Pokémon content creators. Can’t wait for the next video :))
In the games, Silver directly states that the reason no trainers are in Victory Road is because he beat them all. How would the dialogue change then?
Oh interesting! I always took that line as him saying that everyone in the Johto region was spineless, not victory road specifically. Almost as if he’s canonizing the low level curve/low difficulty.
@@ZenModeYT Yeah, went and rechecked and it maybe could also be seen that way, but I saw it more as that he saw exactly how many trainers there were, and how bad they were at it, as if he said from experience. Maybe could be tweaked to act in that way, but at least the way I interpreted it was that he got there before you. Either one works, though.
Like it makes sense, but mechanically, I think the game suffers either way. Victory road is always a fun challenge, but in HGSS, Johto kinda goes out with a whimper…
@@ZenModeYT Oh absolutely. I’m not suggesting to keep it empty, I think it’s much better this way. Just for potentially the dialogue itself to get some of a change to account for it
The days of the week to evolutivon stones is a cool idea. You could also use the japanese name for the days of the week. It would fit better with the stones and be more realistic.
They use the kanji for Sun, Moon, Fire, Water, Wood, Gold and Earth. Sun stone, moon stone, fire stone, water stone, leaf stone, thunder stone... dusk stone 😅
GREAT VIDEO!!!! Wow, I didn't think I would agree with all your points but based on the outlines - I think you chieved exactly what you set out to do.
Perfect - How I would fix ... video!
An hour and a half of setup to get to the real lede of this video: verbally eviscerating Lance.
I really appreciate when someone looks at the flaws of a game and doesn't jump to extreme ends, so many people have noted HGSS as terrible games because of their issues, it's something I've seen more in recent game criticism where people go to extremes rather than include nuance, like yeah HGSS aren't perfect but they also do so much right, it's nice to see someone talk about these games with that nuance.
Other than that random thought, this is such a good video! I share a lot of these ideas but there were also loads that I never thought of before that make so much sense (such as Karen as the champion), I love the detail you put into these videos