Which BR Gets the MOST DOWN-TIERS?
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Which BR gets the most downtiers? Which BR gets the most uptiers? And which BR has the most equal mix of them? Many War Thunder players ask these questions, but there hasn't been any concrete data until now. I looked at the data of almost 300 battles -- across 6,812 different players -- to find the answers, and I hope you enjoy!
📈 ==[INFO BEFORE LOOKING AT THE CHARTS]==
1. While a full BR higher in-game is considered an "up-tier", just 0.3 BR higher is considered an "up-tier" in these charts. This is because we are working with averages, NOT individual tanks. It may look like a small difference, but even 0.3 BR upward, means you are facing mostly stronger players.
2. The results for 1.0 are skewed to have more up-tiers and slight up-tiers than any other BR, simply because you can't go down. The same is true for 11.7, but reversed, since you can't go up.
3. Yes, I could have looked at the SP. However, it is NOT as accurate as my method. This is meant to be an analysis, not a quick glance. I wanted to provide the MOST detail that I could, for the most accurate and indisputable results.
4. This video took an exhausting 2 months to create, on top of getting the data and inputting it. I don't make much off of these videos, so if you enjoyed it and want to support my creations, consider pitching in on Patreon for cool perks and rewards, too :)
📊 Charts: [ we.tl/t-GFrpmkcB47 ]
🌟 Discord Server: / discord
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🎵 Music by Jippy (in order):
- 'nothing'
- 'In the Lab'
- 'Set It Off'
- 'Quint'
(Check him out here: / jippy_dude )
🎥 Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:22 - Background
1:09 - How the Charts Work
3:19 - 1. Most Equal Matches?
3:49 - 2. Most Up-Tiers?
4:09 - 3. Most Down-Tiers?
4:25 - 4. Most Premium Vehicles?
4:37 - Chart in the Description
4:47 - PART 2 = 100 LIKES 
Игры
Imagine a world without downtiers or uptiers.
With queue waiting times around 3-4 minutes and not 1 seconds.
A world every single one of War Thunder player wants.
But Gajin won't do it, even if you send them a pipebomb.
Sad.
Very sad...
Also RIP janitor Joe. He opened the package that was meant for Gajin HQ, not him.
perfect ending to that comment
i mean idk i’d say 1 minute minute is good, 2 is eh, but i don’t really suffer too hard in uptiers, id rather have a short queue but have smaller chance of a good game than a long queue for a slightly larger chance for a good game
You have 1 second queues?
@@sirpwnsalotiii781 if not waiting on sims, then yes.
@@sirpwnsalotiii781 yea toptier queue can be quick 1 sec is exag but its def fast
10.7 was once great
And 1.0 is the worst. 100% of the time you get a slight uptier(so less 1.0 that it gets filled with 1.3/1.7)
+ It cant be downtiered.
(At the time I didnt watch the video)
Yes 10.7 US was my favorite BR. So many 9.7-10.0 down tiers
10.3-10.7 is pretty good right now with the recent BR changes. 11.0 nearly always plays 12.0 in my experience
@@yourfavoritelawnguy2722 yeah issue is the M1A1 and IPM1 both went to 11.0 so my 10.7 lineup is no more
Yea 10.7 is a Premium hell filled with Turms and Pzbtl and ofc the kvt
Can you try doing one in air as well once you are done with the second part? Curious to see if it is different.
unironically, have been considering doing it !
10.3-10.7 Air has been almost constant downtiers for me lately. I just unlocked the F-5E and am by no means a great AirRB player. I'm currently 5-1 with it, which includes spading it obviously.
@@Wubb333 As an air rb only player i'd be more than interested to see the results
@@Wubb333speak for yourself im Not doing 10.7 sweden again 😭
@@Wubb333 Yeah Fr. 11.0 is literally never downtiered whereas 10.7 is never up tiered. I can't remember ever being in a 10.7 to 11.7 game since 12.0 planes were introduced.
To be fair, due to how BR works and that 1.0 vehicles are at the celling, I think that using them on data is just wrong, as their only option would be uptier. similar is with 11.7, as they are at the celling, so they can only be downtiered. So, due to this, i think that better and clearer result would be cutting down 1.0 and 11.7 from data sheets.
i included both 1.0 and 11.7 because i was still curious as to the average BR of the teams
There a lot you can do against superior tanks, but the most basics are:
1. Shot the barrel
2. Shot the tracks and disengage
3. Shot under the turret, at the turret ring
4. Smoke and disengage
The only thing not to do is:
stand in front of it and shot repeatedly at his turret or frontal armor
Edit:
Shooting the barrel is a no brainer, the bigger the enemy, the bigger its gun, therefore a larger target to aim at. But if you cannot hit the barrel, smoke the guy!
Yes, use smoke shells, they are super effective. Hit the enemy with them, wait for 5 seconds and then rush to flank it. If needed put two smoke shells in it for good measure.
Of course, if every single thing fails, just mark the enemy and run away. The map is huge, just let the team know is a super-heavy in the area and flee. Later you can return with a plane.
With proper aiming there is no tank that you cannot destroy with a small 100kg bomb.
5. Have a versatile line-up with vehicles that don't suffer as much in uptiers (*cough cough* Anything but heavies *cough*)
Or Gaijin can add a toggle option to have a longer queue and not be uptiered, crazy how simple that would be and it still hasn't been done.
Or immediately leave the battle as soon as you see it's an uptier.
Snail: The enemy tank will have unbreakable modules that take the explosive force of a nuke to even slightly dmg and it will only work when the time zone has an 8 in it.
Me with no stabs: so... just get killed?
I think 1.0 should've had some special consideration cause you can't get lower than that so it's gonna be full up tiers
i put a disclaimer about 1.0 in "2." of the description
now this is the community work I want to see !
Amazing work and dedication to the game, I feel like we need more peoples like you guys in this community
i appreciate it!
Amazing work crunching all that data! Would love to see how the higher BRs stack up
thank u man! the patterns that emerge higher up are very interesting!
10.7 was basically premiums only 💀
Its good that you recognize the "Stand-outs", in statistics, those would be called Outliers, a value capable of deviating the actual average. I'll try doing the same and collecting data to add.
This is great. As a dude who doesn't play 6.0 or above I'm giving a like because i found out why I play 3.7 the most lol
3.7 has always been a favorite for me too and now i know why lol
Damn that is a glorious spreadsheet. Also if I may add something, the worst nation-BR combo that I've ever experienced is German 5.3-5.7. To this day, the number still increases, (I've been keeping track ever since about the first 15) and I'm currently at *70* consecutive up tiers.... Wtf lmfao I haven't had a downtier at that German br range in long over half a year.
gaijin mm guarantees at least one full downtier per x matches plays so that seems unlikely
I have never had bloody 70 consecutive downtiers, but sometimes I get several days in a row with full downtier corresponding to 20 battles overall. Still shitty anyway, especially taking into consideration german team
Yeah I've been playing british 5.3 and I haven't gotten downtiered since my 3rd game in the challenger. I probably played 40/50 games with it and the last 20-30 were full uptiers (and I play with a friend that plays in 5.7 so I'm sometimes in 6.7 games)
@@galactiquechannel2517 Yeah, very often I find myself fighting tiger 2 Ps in the a.c.iv and challenger, at least Britain gets the 17 pounder which can deal with most things even in a full uptier
@@andrewduan5123they don't. It's random. Depending on the availability of the vehicles, ull go to a match with higher br or not
Great work my man.. keep on keepin on
that was honestly one of the best, most sophisticated and interesting videos ive ever seen about war thunder. You are worth so much more sir 👏
glad u enjoyed it 💜
Thank you for putting in the work!
That's a very informative video, thank you !
seriously loving the content, just joined the server, been wantching for a minute and didnt even realize it but you stood out so much that i subbed and decided to join your server
thank u man i appreciate it
Great work man!
thank u brother
Thanks for the amazing work
Jeez you put in ALOT of work too Solve this mystery for many people. Thanks dude.
thank u man, i appreciate it
A wubbfully brilliant video as always, you can really tell how much effort you infuse into your videos.
rare war thunder wholesome moment
What a huge, gigantic, absolutely fucking enormous amount of work was done… Dude, you’re so underrated. Keep it up. You’re just awesome
Man you deserves more subs great work!
thank u man i appreciate it
This is pretty interesting indeed! I have my own document with over 1500 documented matches, after one day wondering the same thing. 10.7 gets SO many down-tiers, around 70%, with the majority of these being full down-tiers.
I haven't recorded enough matches after the recent BR changes to see if this still holds true with any statistical certainty. I bet you'd get a whole lot more slight down-tiers now with some vehicles moved up to 11.0.
have u seen the drop off in premiums from 10.7 matches to 11.7? it was jarring at first when i saw it
@@Wubb333 Makes sense, Gaijin doesn't sell any top tier premiums, or so I've heard anyway 😆 They're replaced by squadron vehicles instead...
Cool video! I once had similar idea, but never actually got into doing something like that :p
Also, i would suggest testing stuff on different accounts in terms of Level/Statistics (good K/D and such)/time played, i think that would give a lot of valuable information.
yeah theres a lot of stuff that could have been taken into account, like doing this individually for each nation, but it was already a 2 month project 😓
Very great video man, I’m glad to have helped making it
did u learn anything new?
@@Wubb333 alot of words
Cool vid👍
Quality video. Thank you for the opportunity to assist you!
thank u for assisting!
Glad i could help with the vid😊
I think you got the hundred likes, looking forward to part 2
Nice work
So GOATED. Best content drop yet.
coming from the GOAT himself?!
I wish there was some kind of setting that makes it so you can only get people in your br, for just waiting longer in the que
Could be good to use standard deviation and then use that to look for outliers too. Love the vids! keep it up!
im not very good at math and statistics, but i will learn standard deviation
@@Wubb333 once again, amazing videos dude, it's clear you put a lot of effort into them and I hope you continue to make them. Happy Halloween!
Bro your channel/videos are SOOO underrated! I just saw this vid and you just got a new subscriber, keep up the great work 😄
i appreciate it!
@@Wubb333of course ^^
You got 300+ likes ( i aslo liked ), now do part 2 please. I’m sick of facing the jumpo on my Tiger H1 in distant
Woah, what an effort mate 🍻
cheers mate
We need more gambling videos Wubb
Cant wait for the follow up video where he shows cases the death pit of turms, xm1 and banzer battalions
Want to see the charts?
[ we.tl/t-GFrpmkcB47 ]
Yoooo new vid and a good one to keep it up
thank u man, i hope u learned something from it
@@Wubb333 I did i got a lot of info on it
People make fun of German players saying they don't know how to use heavy tanks. I say we always get Upteired, and even put against vehicles that we never were designed to see or would have seen.
Facts
And tiger I H went from 5.3 to 5.7 and tiger I E from 5.7 to 6.0....
I've seen someone with a theory on reddit stating that the fewer vehicles you have in your lineup, the more you get downtiers.
Having a vehicle several BRs lower than the rest also influences the amount of uptiers (e.g. I use the M16 up to 7.3-8.0 where I get actual SPAAs).
Another thing to consider is the "Premium Black Hole", where you can get uptiered or downtiered to certain BRs where most of premium vehicles are, since it's a mass of players with the same BR (during the sales seasons you will get up or downtiered to certain BRs more often).
idk about the first 2 things, but yeah i think the 2 most prominent black hole BRs are 6.0 in air rb and 10.7 in ground rb
Begins sounds like definition of insanity
This video is very interesting… however, no matter how much anyone can try to find a good BR, things can change overnight plus player’s skills is a major factor aside from many other variations that makes it nearly impossible to have an accurate answer that is worth following. The only BR that always have a true advantage is Top BR where you can only face down tiers or same tier.
Great work, but did you take the BR of the first vehicle spawned, or the highest in the lineup? Because for instance when I play 9.3, I sometimes spawn the Gerard (8.3) first in case of helicopter rush.
My head hurts just seeing the excell spreadsheet :)
You're telling me I don't have to do any of the data gathering myself if I just like... uhuh, no brainer
I hate when I'm playing 6.3 and i see on my team a person with a 1.0 ruining the balance of the match against me.
I hate it even more when I see that at the end of the match somehow he's still alive with 5 kills meanwhile I'm on 2 kills and 3 deaths.
Hmm there's bound to be some discrepancies here with people not bringing their highest rated tank first (players bringing a light tank to cap first or wanting to bring their highest tank later in the match when most people are using lower ranked stuff) You can use the spawn point cost to find out the max br range of the match (you'll find in top tier there's actually some 11.3-12.3 matches even though there's no 12.3 yet but it means you'll see no people where 11.0 is their highest on the lineup). If you have a medium tank/mbt as your highest vehicle on the lineup the point cost for the first spawn will be 150, 130, 110 and 100 for +0.0, +0.3, +0.7 and +1.0 respectively.
I logged my matches across various BR's and nations (I play EVERY tree) for a week using this method a few years ago when I used to play 10+hrs a day and found that on average I was getting a full downtier just less than once every 21 matches and a full uptier in almost 3/5 matches. At the time I was in the top 0.1% of players so since then I've always believed that there is skill based matchmaking in the form of more uptiers the better you are.
in regards to the discrepancies: this was the point of making the "average BR" and "real BR" columns. the "average BR" is just every vehicle, the "real BR" is the average of every vehicle that * isnt * a standout. accomplishes the same goal.
@@Wubb333With that I meant a lot of the time the lower vehicle someone might bring is only 0.3-2.0 lower all of which you wouldn't know immediately are not the players highest vehicle depending on how much of an up tier you're in without checking every respawn for them. (And that is if they ever take their highest vehicle)
For example I'm currently stock grinding the BVM and it's the highest thing on my lineup at 11.7, but because it only gets heat and most people's first vehicles have excellent protection against that round I spawn my T80U (11.3) and UM2 (11.0) first and sometimes if a game goes either really well or really bad I won't even spawn the BVM at any point. However for the point of the statistics both of these vehicles are ones that you would see at the BR and thus not be discounted as discrepancies while they are still falsely bringing the average br of the match down.
right, its only marked as a "standout" in my charts if its 2.0 or more BR lower... in ur example, i would not have marked the 11.0 as a standout, even if i was looking at 11.7.
as a better example of what im trying to say, imagine the match is intended to be 11.7. if u bring an 11.7, i bring a 10.7, someone else brings a 10.3, and finally someone else brings a 9.7. of these 4, the only one thats being counted as a standout is the 9.7.
and if im misunderstanding what ur saying, sorry
@@Wubb333 Yeah that's essentially it. Basically what it means is the represented average br of the matches is a bit lower than the true average. I would estimate that between 25% and 50% of people regularly don't spawn their highest vehicle first, but without a way to check every players full lineup we can't know how big of a difference it's causing.
these are some surprising statistics, mostly since its almost impossible to bring 3.3 tanks with minor nations: if I play 10 games with a swedish 3.3(pvkv iii) more than half will be full uptiers with germany on the allied side. I think a nation's matchups is a greater factor, more even than the br you play in
the snail will plan a assination attempt on you for giving your subscribers such valuable information
My brother in Spreadsheet, why do I not have to pay for this? 😳
Thank you ever so much for your work, and to the people who helped in this! 😄
Instead of how you took screenshots of everyone’s BR you can just load into a normal match and see how much spawn points cost, 150 being a full Down tier and 100 being a full up tier (for medium tanks). And then log in a spreadsheet
that would work, but you lose the detail
I looked at the chart and 4.0, 4.7 ,and 3.7 are the best at going with people down tier or slightly down tier
I have noticed, the IS2'44 gets downtiered 7/10 games. just add a tank that's like 1 br lower.
You have no idea how much us Is-2 1944 players suffer we get into top tier games most of the time
@@Zopiexxbs
@@Zopiexxof course you'd suffer with IS-2 in top tier lmao
@@r1zmy Even worser now since br change
0:05 Shoot with an APHE at the left side (from your POV) of the turret front, the one that is not covered by the gun mask - it only has 100 mm armor.
If IS-2 angles the turret to the left, to cover this weak spot, shoot immediately to the right of the gun barrel - there is no turret armor there, only gun mask covering gun aperture.
P.S.: Thanks for being thorough with your statistics and for accounting for outliers!
@@Postoronniy or shoot the lower plate
I dont understand how this video doesnt get 100k views instantly
bro i wish....
@@Wubb333 Like I think its a thing for everyone to know how not to get uptiered. And I havent found videos like this either so it should skyrocket.
yeah i noticed there was only 1 other thing i could find on this, but it was just 100 battles, so i wanted to take it further lol
Have you aimed for the pupula... it works wonders 99% of the time the 1% is when you're an American tank that loves to spam the space button
omg i was right! im suffring in 5.3-5.7 usa for month's!
Playing with the Tiger H1 and Tiger E is almost painful sometimes. I almost all the time get full up tiers, and only once I was on tier. But the tank is still very good :D
Me getting 35 full uptiers in a row.. not all were full uptiers but there was definitely no ontiers or doentiers.. so 35 slight, normal and full tiers matches in a row
I see data, I enjoy
hopefully u learned something !
Good work, so are you an accountant or are you going to be an Engineer? Good work to bad we didn't get to see the 6.0 and higher BR's like 7.0 and 8.0 but nice to see the math and maybe it can be used against gaijin win and loss for a player's teams. 😉
Gaijin should add that if you are in a uptier you get extra rewards regardless of how many kills you got to make it fair.
Awesome 😎
The premium black holes 8.0+ are brutal and would love to see stats to prove it
Maybe you could have done the median or modal BR cause that could've given you some easier data to process
Its so funny watching a is 2 doing the backwards trick when im in my t34 heavy tank
Not criticizing of course, but i think you could ve made it way easier for you if you used spawn points cost instead of manually checking br of each vehicle you faced.
It works like this: When you get into battle, look at the spawn point cost of your vehicle, it will differentiate depending on br of other players in this battle. Take for example a medium tank, say VK 3002 for a round br of 5.0
If there is a player with 6.0 vehicle in his lineup in this battle, it means the br range of this battle is 6.0-5.0 and so youve got a full uptier, and the cost to spawn in it will be exactly 100 points
If there is a player with 5.7 vehicle, br range 5.7-4.7, youve got in a slight uptier, and the spawn cost would be 110.
If there is a player with 5.3 vehicle, br range 5.3-4.3, slight downtier, spawn cost 130.
And at last, if br range is 5.0-4.0, its a full downtier, and spawn cost would be 150.
Same cost aplies for light tank, it is however different for heavy tank, spaa, and tank destroyers/atgm carries.
For heavy tank spawn point cost goes like this: 100 for full uptier, 120 for slight uptier, 140 for slight downtier and 160 for full downtier
for spaa its a bit harder to tell, because gaijin for some reason decided to give some specific spaa higher cost to spawn(like the flakpanzer 351 for example, i believe they gave it +10 to cost at full down, becides maybe full uptier), so its not always the best idea to use spaa to tell the br, but generally it goes like this: 70 full uptier, 80 slight uptier, 90 slight downtier, 100 full downtier
And tank destroyers/atgm carriers: 90 full uptier, 100 slight uptier, 120 slight downtier, 130 full downtier.
I apologize if my explanation is complicated, but i highly recomend trying to use this method to tell the br range youve got, its nice and easy and gives you a slight advantage, being able to chose the right vehicle for the right br.
I didnt tell about calculating the spawn point cost of second vehicle you spawn in, or how it would or would not affect the spawncost of your third vehicle, but it think if i did tell, it would overcomplicate things, so i will leave it for another day.
Feel free tho to ask any question about this method.
is this a guaranteed thing? if so, it would make it a lot easier and i can still feed it 300 battles lol
(also thanks)
playing a medium tank this is 100% accurate. having the highest br in the game means u need 150 sp, 0.3/0.4 below max costs 130-140, 0.6/0.7 below 120/110 and 1.0 below max br costs 100. always. (i hope the numbers are correct but they should be). a mbt in top tier is currently almost never 150 cuz u always have 12.0 jets in the game but no 12.0 tank
@@Wubb333 As far as im aware, it is indeed a guaranteed thing.
Ure telling me a medium tank in a downtier costs 150 sp? Dat would mean I never got a full downtier, I never had a medium tank cost more than 130 sp
*Wow*
Where are the full uptier vehicles cause I have had plenty of a 1 BR higher enemy tanks against me.
i wouldnt interprete too much into this data. the real life values will bounce around depending on daytime, nation played, events, new vehicles coming into the game, even sales influence the matchmaker a lot.
i recommend to not fokus too much on up/downtier, but search for well balanced vehicle decks, and unlock most of the vehicles there before you play this BR.
A good deck has at least a decent medium tank as golden goose for everything, and if that tank doesnt have a big gun for uptiers, you should add one to the deck. then its nice to have an aa, a scout tank, and a heavy tank. if you can fly, its highly recommended to add some planes as well, i prefere attackers, some like bombers, i usually also have a fighter with cannons or a lot of 50s (can keep air superiority and support ground).
But i admit, 5.3 is a nice BR to play for most nations, almost every nation has a nice 5.3 deck, so many play it.
Even tho i have everything unlocked for germany, i only have fun playing the panzer 2 at 1.7 and panzer 3 n at 3.0
There was a time when Germany's Rank IV got a downtier almost every battle, I remember mowing down entire teams with my Tiger II
i remember playing my 5.7 set up with germany, i loaded the tiger e and out of nowhere i had a few jagdtigers spawn next to me that are at 7.0 or 7.3
They are 6.7
How to tiger vs rverse is1/2
Step 1: if is1, angle, if is2 seek cover tillhe needs to reload.
Step 2: once you can shoot him, aim fotmr turret cheek front or cupola
Step 3: he dies
Pro tipp: just use the panther. Better gun, more reliable armour.
Also don‘t sit there unmoving while you reload and he‘s shooting at you.😊
That rocket bush looks devastating
the ultimate bush wookie
Make another ASAP please :D
on it o7
try doing the study again at top tier during a sale
5.3 bro. Every time I play 5.3 there’s always that 6.7 tiger 2 shredding everyone
i cant remember the last time i saw a tiger 2 at 5.3
it’s the tiger 2 p, which is 6.3, at 5.3 you literally cannot face 6.7
he did the math 99.99% of us were to lazy to do
I dont mind slight uptier, like, my BR is 2.7, tank costs 120SP and enemy can get 3.3 tanks, like T34s or M10s.
I do mind a full 1.0 uptier.
Would be cool to see the results of full uptier percentages on each BR
Last month I've been recording my uptiers to down tiers. Playing br's of 5.7, 6.7 and 7.7/8.0
I conclude with all data I've had about 30 max uptiers to 1 full down tier.
What, the, fuck.
definitely depends on the nation..... minor nations get it the best in terms of fairness
How many hours to finish the spreadsheet? (Bring aletco to Top Tier now)
2 months (ok)
Me watching this at 3:21 am while taking a big break from war thunder
👁️👄👁️: interesting I need this
I once Played 1.0 and saw a freaking me 262
Turns out my friend was messing with me
Idk if I’m just unlucky but I kept track and have managed to get up-tiered 78% of the time out of about 100 battles. This was between 5.3 to 7.3 which yes is known to be a slog but still damn
no wonder 3.7 is so fun
Very nice research! But, thinking of it, maybe 25 battles for each BR is not enough for good representation.
this was painful as it was
"The color codeing is red, orange, yellow, lightgreen and darkgreen"
Sad colorblind noise
sheeeeet
meanwhile Il-28 at 8.0 getting uptiers to 8.7 pretty consistently, when u have no countermeasures to deter all the rockets coming at you
what could be a fun vehicle is absolutely ruined, when u get uptiers every game
IS-2 tip: Cupola shots.
How is it surprising that 1.0 (the only one that can't get any downtiers) is pulled off of average toward uptiers? imo it's why there's so little difference between some 1.0 and 1.7 or 2.0 vehicles
i thought there would be more on-tier matches for 1.0
Cannot pen is-2 with tiger is truly essence of skill issue.
Im only 17 seconds into the video and I thought the only good way to play warthunder is to embrace uptiers, learn from them. I've murdered so many IS-2's with the Tiger its insane. Ima continue watching the video tho 😎
America rank 3 it's so painful because the fact that M18 is 5.7 you'll get up tiered most of the time
america gets it really rough from tiers 2-4...
You need to document data for a whole day for it to be average, different countries play different nations i think.
no wonder why the StuG III G at 3.7 matches is unbeatable
untill i meat a KV-1
this the type of data/evidence you present to a person
then just say "Skill issue" as their intellectual reaction
Yea but the thing is all vehicles are diferent and they could vahe like up tier but bad gun low tier but good gun on penetration and size this makes the game sofisticated it coukd have been nice if we had nations like 1 vs 1 nation and see if one win or not
You should do it in air arcade 💀