I just hate the yonko and admiral levels... it's such a stupid generalisation. Like no, Big Mom is not beating Akainu, and no, Greenbull is not beating Primebeard.
@@Hpyktxdif u actually read the manga you would know that whitebeard had to sneak akainu while having a rage amp. Akainu got up and punched a hole through his body and took off half his face.
i always figured admirals were somewhere between yonko commander and yonko level, give or take. i feel like if the marines had four yonko level fighters, plus their world-government funded fleet, plus CP0, plus the warlords (or seraphim), they wouldn't have been shitting themselves over big mom and kaido teaming up. hell, i'd say they would have taken over the new world by now edit: i also wanted to mention their performance at marineford. whitebeard had a big fleet, but if the admirals were all yonko level, i really dont think whitebeard's fleet would've performed nearly as well as it did. especially because whitebeard was probably the weakest of the yonko during marineford. his only working haki was armament haki, and he was taking damage from sword strikes and gunshots. his devil fruit was the strongest in the world, yeah, but he was really restricted in how he could use it during marineford because he didn't wanna hit his own allies. even with those restrictions, while severely damaged, he dealt akainu some serious damage. akainu was able to blow half his face off, yeah, but whitebeard was extremely nerfed and damaged by that point. if akainu was as strong as big mom or kaido, he would've packed whitebeard up with no trouble at all
Admirals had to hold back so they don't destroy the island. As an admiral, they have tons of restrictions that don't allow them to go all out especially in government islands.
@@KingKosuu i said they're somewhere between commander and yonko level, which side of the spectrum they lean toward probably depends on the admiral. The only one we've gotten to see have a 1v1 is kizaru, and while his showings against luffy and rayleigh are good, you could argue that luffy's stamina problems hold him back from actually being yonko level (kaido could outlast him a dozen times over despite luffy being as strong and fast as him). We just haven't seen enough of the admirals to clock exactly where they are. Like, you could probably argue that kizaru is the same level as akainu since they're both OG admirals and we haven't seen akainu do anything outside marineford yet (but for some reason people glaze the shit out of him anyway). There's not much evidence to say one way or the other. I personally think they're generally somewhere between commander and yonko level (stronger than commander but weaker than yonko) and ive explained why. Once we get to see more of the admirals, that might change. But for now, i don't see the admirals ALL being yonko level (i think akainu probably is, but again, no proof yet)
@@KingKosuu I don't he means they are close to commanders he's just saying they are the in-between I think which does kinda make sense why would you have 3 yonko level fighters plus the fleet admiral Imo akainu and kuzan are fleet admiral level which is like the equivalent of a yonko. But the 3 admirals are one of the main reasons the governments maintain the current power balance cause they are stronger than commanders with only some 1st commanders coming close. The marines don't realistically need 4 yonko level fighters
@@KingKosuuzoro would neg diff Oldbeard via two things Oldbeard can get hit by fodder meaning Zoro is confirmed to be able to hit him Two getting damaged by hakiless attacks Zoro uses Ashura and Wb is sliced in half so Zoro>any form of Oldbeard There’s no levels
Originally I believe that the emperors were supposed to eclipse the admirals a bit, but at some point I think things shifted(As in Oda's plan for them). I entirely think it's matchup dependent now, with the average emperor being stronger than the average admiral.
Gear 4 was very relative to hybrid kaido on the roof top. Kizaru landed ONE attack on him, forcing him to go gear 5. Keep in mind this was a kizaru who wasn't putting in any where near full effort. After that Kizaru was toying with gear 5 and ignoring him mostly. Luffy only got hits in when kizaru was careless or completely ignoring him. Meanwhile kaido was getting ragdolled consistently by gear 5 luffy
@@KizaruGlazerswe see in the fight Luffy wasn't fighting Kizaru like how he fight Kaido right? He's not relying solely in using conquerors haki. And Kaido is already tire when he was fighting Luffy gear 4th but still folded Luffy a lot of time before that cp0 interrupt the fight Kaido was clearly winning 😂. and in gear 5th Kaido got Hit a lot of time of that attack that one shots Kizaru bro 😂😂😂
Honestly, sengoku in the last days of his prime failing to take out bb and his crew in a jumping while bb got a double damage debuff should be a testament to his power
This. Like how does everyone overlook that, it legit puts Marineford BB > Marineford Sengoku. Unless you believe Sengoku is a fraud bc he couldn't one shot Balloon Luffy
I don’t take that fight seriously at ALL, Garp fought with him and they barely did anything to the Blackbeard pirates while garp by himself destroyed half of them later☠️
@@KingKosuu and people don't take into account that all the admirals where holding back during the marineford war as their strength at full power would literally destroy the marine base, so they where definitely nerfed
7:39 The Roger disrespect is so funny. Do y’all really think Oda would make Gol.D Roger,one of luffys main inspirations a fraud? Saying whitebeard NEVER used his fruit powers against rogers sounds like agenda to me🌚
Facts I don't get this downplay, all of a sudden, WB is stronger cause he has a busted fruit despite the fact haki, which makes Roger fight back. It's even better in Roger cause he only has haki and is pushing back WB.
Thanks to the recent sbs 110, Oda confirmed that it was Kizaru who gave Luffy the food in Egghead, so basically Kizaru was on the ground faking it and speed blitz all the people at Egghead even Saturn, so it's hard to say if Luffy vs Kizaru really was a stalemate,
This debate never made any sense to me. Admirals are relative to yonkos. The narrative shows it, the portrayel shows it, and in egghead, even then feats/statements show it.
It can't be generalized. Admirals are relative to some Yonkos, and above some Yonkos. Right now they're confidently above all the new Yonkos (Luffy, BB, buggy), but against the rest it's pretty mixed and goes from relative to below to above depending on which Yonko.
@@johnmeehan7884 yes. Above Luffy. There was no goofying of Kizaru. We know Kizaru was mentally nerfed during the entire mission due to not wanting to kill Vegapunk (Confirmed when he says his wounds "run deep" despite him not having any physical wounds, clearly referring to mental wounds) (and mental nerfs are repeatedly confirmed to be a real thing that can highly hinder your power in One Piece), yet he still kept up with a G5 Luffy trying to knock him out. Even then, we know G5 couldn't knock him out, because Oda confirmed it was Kizaru who fed Luffy back to life after he gassed out meaning the WSG did minimal damage to him (a WSG that was more powerful than the one that stunned Kaido). Kizaru literally wanted Luffy to win and stop him, yet he still couldn't, cause in the end Kizaru still reaches Vegapunk and kills him. This is backed up by what we see- Kizaru, instead of being knocked out after taking the WSG right to the face, just lays on the ground with his hand on his face as if he just got his heart broken, not as if he just ate an attack that would threaten even the most durable Yonko, which is absolutely insane since he has no reason being as durable as Kaido. Regardless, he took the attack and proceeded to feed Luffy ramen as if nothing happened. Funnily enough, this is also an absolutely ridiculous speed feat. Nobody noticed Kizaru feeding Luffy the food despite there being Sanji, Zoro and Saturn in the area. The Sanji that perception blitzed Queen and is probably top 4 fastest characters we know of got perception blitzed himself to an even greater degree by Kizaru, since Kizaru didn't just feed Luffy but carried him to a safer spot away from the marine soldiers. Saturn, Zoro and Sanji were completely incapable of seeing him do all of this, meaning Kizaru is by FAR the fastest character in the verse if he's trying and it's not close, literal leagues beyond everyone else including Luffy and every other Yonko. So yes, that Luffy is below Kizaru, and the rest of the OG admirals at minimum. Make them fight again, but make Kizaru actually try to win and don't let him feed Luffy, and it's a wash. Luffy will not be able to land something like Bajrang Gun whereas every other move he has will not knock out Kizaru quick enough even if he just sits still and takes all of it. Luffy gases out before he can knock out Kizaru, then Kizaru kills him. Kuzan should scale relative to Kizaru in general fighting ability since they're both OG admirals, and we know he also scales confidently above Garp and possibly equal to Prime Garp (and in some stats he scales above). Akainu obviously should scale above Kizaru in everything except speed. The new admirals vs Luffy is debatable, tho I won't argue for them. Just assuming they lose.
Yeah this debate should’ve been settled in marineford. Yonko>admirals. They ain’t relative, 3v1. Y’all have been taking L’s ever sense too. Greenbull getting Wi-Fi diffed by shanks, and now kizaru getting speed blitz by luffy while fighting the gorosei. 😂 y’all always have a cope ready though.
@@cartermarrero9431 they’re relative though… The weakest admiral (Greenbull) getting affected by the strongest yonko’s (shanks) Haki doesn’t really show anything. Even then, Greenbull left wano because he didn’t want to fight all these yonko crews + his DF counter. In kizaru vs luffy (the first fight since in all the others, kizaru is injured from his first fight with Luffy while Luffy fully healed), it took luffys entire time limit for Luffy to land one attack on kizaru. Kizaru was able to move shortly after taking the attack since he gave food to Luffy too. There is so many statements from databooks or just from the anime that imply relativity between the two and even the narrative does. You can call it cope but it’s just facts.
Ben beckman is the only first commander that you can even be generous with due to him being called shanks' rival, but thats still being very generous twords him
Ben Beckman only has one good statement though. We've never seen him even do anything that impressive. (if you don't count him getting trolled by Kizaru at Marineford.)
@@warlordz5779 Even without that if the strongest of them is getting absolutely trolled by Kizaru, they are not much stronger than twice normal Yonko commander level.
great video, pointed outa lot of things however i do believe it takes around 2 admirals for 1 yonko depends on the admiral and yonko particalarly but on average yes
Maybe fujitora and greenbull, but if we put kizaru and akainu currently against luffy for example, he loses. he already almost lost against kizaru alone
The difference between Yonko and Admiral is the same as the Difference between Zoro and Sanji. Zoro and Yonko got the Aura and Narrrative but Sanji and Admirals got the more characterization.
I be honest, originally I was team Yonko with the feats and statements up to Wano. Then came egghead where Luffy ended up resorting to G5 against Kizaru which completely change my mindset for the OG admirals vs Yonko discussions.
@ I be honest, even with Kizaru’s statement and the idea Luffy started and ended the fight with Acoc, even if we disregarded all of that, the fact it still force Luffy into having to use G5 and both characters can end up being fatigue just said to me that Admirals are clearly approaching or could be stronger.
Shanks solos the current admirals by himself low diff 😂 kaido solos the current admirals low diff. Big mom solos the current admirals mid to high diff. Whitebeard solos the current admirals low diff. Whitebeard, kaido, shanks and big mom absolutely negative diffs akainu, kuzan and kuzaru. Momonoski quite literally reduced Greenbull to a twig. @@shaquillesommerville4060
@@DrakoNotDracothere’s no proof for this. Even if this was true Kizaru was far more nerfed as he did not even have the option to hurt Luffy since he had to multitask attacking Vegapunk.
Luffy did win against kizaru at no point was luffy struggling with kizaru after he ate he only looked weak is because of gear 5 drawbacks and even then luffy was nerfed that whole arc🤨
@@bensylver5113nobody except for rob lucci was decisively defeated in egghead. It was an escape arc, not a fight to the death arc. Luffy escaped therefore he succeeded. The Gorosei failed because they let vegapunk say his piece and everyone escaped. Though due to regeneration I doubt you could actually kill them no matter how overwhelmingly you overpower them. Kizaru begrudgingly did his duty and took an opportunity to give up the fight. Kizaru was hesitant to kill vegapunk, not necessarily to hurt luffy or any of his allies. Luffy fended off Kizaru successfully, even though he fought at the disadvantage of protecting his crew from a guy that was waaaaay faster than him. He also simultaneously fought Saturn, whom was definitely not holding back. How did this end up? Luffy simultaneously pizza diffed Kizaru and Saturn, resulting in Kizaru giving up and crying on the floor and Saturn calling for reinforcements. The Gorosei are more relative to yonko than the average admirals. Only fleet admiral level characters (current akainu, current Kuzan, garp, sengoku) are actually relative to yonkos. Kizaru, fujitora, and greenbull are not getting past luffy or Blackbeard in 1v1 death matches. I’d personally put any Gorosei above Kizaru who is currently the strongest admiral. The younger yonko like luffy and Blackbeard are extreme diffing either way with Warcury. Fleet admiral akainu is probably relative to kaido.
Bro ima need that Roger vs Whitebeard video. Ever since that stupid debate came out, I could never get behind it. It's pretty obvious to me that he used his Fruit against Roger at least once. Like we've literally seen a non environmental damaging Quake attack from him, and this is still contentious.
I think he probably did use his fruit but not quite at its full potential as quake fruit is mostly a dc based fruit so if he used it at it's full power it would endanger his crew and do massive collateral damage
I don’t really agree with big mom being THAT much of an idiot, especially in the law and kid vs big mom fight, she was quite literally just outwitted and slight overwhelmed by law and kids awakenings. It’s really just that law and kid are underrated & big mom is underrated that she suffers so much
She was outwitted because she was stupid. The time she got serious and starting trying to use haki it was too late. Keep in mind law just used his ultimate attack kid was mid using his ultimate attack big mom didn't heal at all and she was actually getting up. The only reason why she lost is because she got thrown off the island and common sense didn't tell her to just make another homie that could fly. She was not overwhelmed by kid and law she was overwhelmed by the terrain not being strong enough to withstand her pressure of getting up and kids pressure pushing her down with damned punk.
Reminders that we NEVER saw her go all out vs Kidd and Law. She never used more than one year of her lifespan to power herself up more and never used ACoC vs both. We also know that when somebody goes all out and lost, they would be exhausted and KO-ed (white pupils)! Which didn't happen to Big Mom as she was thrown off Onigashima and was still able to move and talk.
@@ceerodadon2566 WCI established how bummish she really is, then the shenanigans with Robin on Wano, getting clowned on, Kaido seeing her as pathetic, her super homie getting sliced by a Law without use of his df etc
Admirals = Yonkos If anything only the OG Admirals can contend with Yonkos and vice versa whilst the new Yonkos and new Admirals are all mid aside from BB
I do see Yonkos having some slight edge as they are free, less conflicted and more likely to use CoC due to thr latter. But I agree that the gap is small.
Also I think Jimbei said in Fishman Island that the navy became stronger than ever after Akainu got the fleet admiral position. That would imply that pre-timeskip Akainu/Aokiji/Kizaru trio < Ryokugyu/Fujitora/Kizaru trio
Even is Akainu is stronger, it seems that him and Aokiji is not that far off in power. Especially now, when Aokiji is more active than him while Akainu is busy pushing pencils and ordering people around as a Fleet Admiral.
@ the battleship scene with Garp, Kuzan, and Koby show the marines train everyday. Sakazuki is still training, he’s not in the field, but he’s still training.
@@mstr293do people forget they fought for TEN days… ppl be acting like sakazuki is a whole tier above kuzan. it takes him that long to beat another admiral and ppl will look you dead in your face and try to say “Sakazuki could beat prime whitebeard, shanks, roger” like their haki wouldn’t completely make his magma useless
Another thing about kaido is that I believe he wasn't really going all out, he actually never used his armament haki the entire fight against luffy, and he only used future sight ones when he was drunk just to show luffy he had it
I prefer to debate in ratios when it comes to characters with similar power levels. If you simulated 100 battles between the Younko and Admirals, I'd say the Younko would win 60-40 splits except for Akainu, who would go 50-50 or 60-40 depending on the matchups.
Blackbeard in Marineford fought old Garp and old Sengoku at the same time and made Sengoku covered in bandages after the war, Sengoku who's at least admiral level too bc fleet admiral means that you need to graduate from admiral level. I take it he retired because Marineford was the last year when he could stay strong enough for the position, after the timeskip his hair is all white indicating that age to him
@ThieuAnhDuong-we2zc I'd say that's debatable. Blackbeard VS Sengoku started, and later on we see Garp appear besides Sengoku. It's highly likely he fought him because he was injured quite a bit afterwards too
Nah. Blackbeard is never confirmed to have fought Garp. He did fight Sengoku though and got the upper hand because Sengoku was trying to play defense and protect the headquarters, whereas Blackbeard was trying to destroy it.
The 3 topics the community go over consistently all have answers to them. With the Shanks/Mihawk one being the closest. The Yonkos are stronger than the admirals.
Oh yeah and Benn Beckman is like implied to be this Rival or similar to Shanks thing and the fact they could even hold Kizaru at Gunpoint is a feat enough so if you wanted to talk about that battle it makes sense especially with the possibility that most of the Red Hairs might still be relative or above Luffy and that Kizaru was 2 years weaker.
@@_General_Grievous__ Beckman note this however and he didn't try to attack and no one else was doing anything but Strawhat still escaped. It doesn't mean that if He did shoot it would have done no damage or that Kizaru wouldn't have maybe died. It's possible he's keeping him at Gunpoint because Shanks orders are to maintain the power taking out an Admiral wouldn't do that even if they would be replaced later on that would still be added to the news if one died. So It is fair to bring up becase the only way it wouldn't be Fair is if Kizaru moved right after no putting his hands up or stopping because then it would be obvious Benn was never a threat it would be like Ussop using his Slingshot but the fact that he actually seemed to be fearful and respectful enough to put his hands up shows a narrative point in the portrayal.
Anyone besides shanks in red hair pirates is getting dog walked by luffy if you think otherwise you're just delusional heck even Zoro is probably enough to give Beckman a run for his money
Honestly I think Kuzan, Akainu, prime garp and sengoku were/are yonko level or somewhat above low tier yonkos. I also think some admirals are relatively near that yonko status like kizaru who was going to go to wano and maybe green bull.
@@mstr293 theres also early 2 billion Teach being a Yonko, Luffy being declared an "emperor" at just 1.5 billion. Marine ranks are based on strength, Yonko tite is just based on your territories and influence. If Greenbull was a pirate on some jungle island with a whole ass crew, hed probably be a Yonko too
isn’t the reason Whitebeard didn’t/wouldn’t use his Quake fruit versus Roger because every scuffle they’ve had being a crew battle? Whitebeard can’t afford to go all out with his Quakes without risking damaging the surrounding area, the treasure/spoils they fight for, and his crew mates also on the island. Sure their haki clashes were grandiose and shook the island in the anime, but the Quakes would’ve definitely sunk everyone including WB himself if he went all out. That’s why someone who doesn’t know any better with the fruit will cause way more damage than good. Now put them in an isolated 1v1 scenario where none of his family and terrain is in danger, I think WB would use his fruit versus Roger and overtake him proving he’s the strongest. basically i’m saying WB tied with Roger while nerfed (Roger was sick/nerfed yea sure) but that’s just how I interpret it. WB > Roger but it just couldn’t be shown to us, we get roger bowing to WB pleading for Oden instead which says enough imo.
I think Oda made Blackbeard super satisfying to me. The man fully admits that rather than decrease damage his Darkness Devil Fruit actually makes it worst. BUT the fact he has one of the most useful auxillery abilities in being able to steal devil fruits and build a crew of devil fruit users and is for a non-SH character consistently talked up for just his toughness and unusual body is cool. It makes him feel like a bad guy because unlike Big Mom or Kaido our man Blackbeard is more than willing to let his crew step in if he is struggling making him feel more despicable and cowardly than any other yonko at the same time the man is ambitious, ruthless and paitent showing a mind more meticulous than his outwardly Luffy level dumb persona gives off.
8:41 Then why did he go there in the first place you are contradicting yourself, even without Shanks he was cooked and only decided to run when Shanks came. If Shank didn´t go he would have gotten jumped and he would have lost.
He went there to capture luffy because he knew he was healing, Shanks being there meant he was cooked since having two yonko crews and other people there would cause a lot of trouble. It’s clear that greenbull thought he’d get the drop on everyone if they were healing
I always love it when ppl say Whitebeard snuck up on Akainu. the dying old geezer literally wobbled to him... even npc marines saw him coming. if the great Sakazuki couldnt even dodge that, he's only that level. No wonder he sweated buckets when he saw Shanks at the end of his punch. He's just not him
The yonko and admirals are equal, at certain given points in the series the yonko can have a slight lead and the admirals can have a slight lead. I would say that if we put every yonko against every admiral, the admirals would win.
Isn't stated that Ben Beckman is very close to Shanks in strength? And Zoro isn't many power ups away form yonko level. Saying that no commanders could beat and admiral just isn't true. It's at very least close.
All 3 og admirals beats luffy kizaru had the chance to kill luffy but gave that bum some food so he can try and actually save Vega punk which he still failed……
@@goatboy1827your slow Luffy beats every admiral including akainu . 😂😂😂them boys had problems with the whiteboard pirates 😅😅 who were weak fr . They couldnt even beat old wb . Luffy is much stronger then marineford whiteboard . In fact Luffy is on par with prime whiteboard which none of the admirals arent
And still, Oda hints in SBS, that Borsalino was FINE after taking a ACOC G5 attack, and decided to help Luffy by feeding him when he was out of stamina. He could simply decide to finish Luffy, but choosed to help him instead. Original Admirals > Luffy.
@kfc-employee1380 oda said someone with light speed and kizaru still got put to sleep after the second acoc attack when he got flattened with Saturn . Kizaru is nowhere near Luffy the fact he barely manage to stay up after 1 acoc is still embarrassing for an admiral. Tanking one acoc is expected of them
This is how i rank admirals and yonko. Gb and fuji loosing to all other admirals and yonko (excluding buggy). Bm loosing to other emperors and og admirals. Aokiji and kizaru loosing to akainu and the remaining emperors. Then from here everyone is even that the fight can go either way. From the weakest admiral to strongest admiral/yonko can be a high/extreme dif but other than that every matches is extreme diff.
In defense to the Yonko: In terms of power, Mihawk should be the stand-in for Buggy as the latter is only "Yonko" by title. Despite sustaining lethal injuries, sickbeard still had energy to fight BB and his crew. Akainu was incapacitated for a while after WB's last attack on him. If he didn't fall off the rocks, do you think WB doesn't have the power to finish him off while he's down? Big Mom was NEVER seen going all out, EVER! She's nearing her 70's, the critical age where even stronger people like Garp and WB became weaker or at least lost a lot of stamina. She NEVER used ACoC and Ryou, more than one year of her lifespan vs Law and Kidd AND was only lost because thrown off Onigashima. When enemies go all out and lost, they are either exhausted or get KOed, with the white eyes. This never happened permanently with Big Mom. She was conscious when she fell and had the energy to finish both Law and Kidd if she didn't fall. Luffy only lost due to his time limit in Gear 5. Luffy NEVER SUSTAINED ANY REAL DAMAGE VS KIZARU WHILE KIZARU GOT ONE-SHOT 3X. Even if Kizaru was holding back, so did Luffy! He was never seen using ACoC vs the admiral, in which the admiral can't use either. No Ryou/internal destruction, no sky splits, no attacks that comes close to his Island-busting Bajarang Gun. Without the time limit, Luffy did more damage to Kizaru than Kizaru did to him. Unlike Garp who doesn't want to hurt Luffy during MF, Kizaru doesn't want to hurt Vegapunk! He has no reason to not try to hurt Luffy himself.
Kaido NEVER went all out vs Gear 4 + ACoC Luffy as Luffy was already panting and one hit away from death while Kaido still has enough energy to fight Gear 5 despite wear-and-tear from fighting Luffy multiple times with many breaks and plot-related recoveries and resurrection, stalling and chip damaged from a dozen YC1 characters, and help from Guernica, Luffy would've still lost. Gear 5 is the only enemy Kaido is forced to use the Death Destroyer and Flaming Bagua. Shanks don't need any defense. Blackbeard idk yet but he'll surely be the most powerful in the final war.
He was mentally nerfed, Kizaru isn’t like Akainu, he was focusing most of his attention on killing Vegapunk. If he focused his attention on Luffy, he definitely would’ve did better in my opinion
Logically speaking an admiral agenda does not exist. If they’re truly above yonkos there wouldn’t be a purpose for the warlords or pacifistas/ seraphims. Besides that point their not even conquerers except for maybe akainu. And also the world military draft where the 2 new admirals came from proves this coz how would a person that’s above yonko level just be chilling in some random country till the navy notices them it doesn’t make sense
The US has over 12,000 nukes. They are still going to want more. Of everything; be it funding, troops, aircraft, drones, etc. The US is not wanting more power/resources because there is a bigger threat than themselves but to establish their military might, which can be imposed on the world. Just because a government is trying to increase their power does not mean they are doing it out of necessity.
In terms of going up against high-to-top tier characters, Marco KINDA is light work, and the admirals sort of DID slap him away. Despite being the right hand man of the evidently strongest man in the world, Marco, I'd say personally, is on the weaker spectrum of the right hand men of emperor crews.
Akainu was saved when he was incapacitated from Sickbeard's final attack on him due to him falling with the rocks. Sickbeard also had the energy to fight BB and his crew later. If he didn't fall down, WB would've incapacitated Akainu even more. Kizaru NEVER gave Luffy any real damage that KOed him. Luffy was literally eating his attacks in Gear 5. He only lost due to his time limit as Kizaru kept playing cat-and-mouse with him. Luffy can't even use ACoC (Kizaru can't even use it), can't split the skies and Luffy doesn't need to use any attacks close in power to the Bajarang Gun as White Star Gun is more closer to his attack on Kaido in chapter 1042. Without the time limit and he fought Luffy head-on I doubt Kizaru stands a chance but to flee.
@@mstr293 1. Whitebeard only even landed that when he sneaked akainu. Btw, whitebeard was enraged while akainu still had to hold back. On top of this, saying that akainu was saved because whitebeard just could have kept on attacking him if he didn’t fall in is a pure assumption. Who knows what would have happened in akainu didn’t fall in the ravine? He may have got up in time of whitebeard getting to him just like he did before. You can’t say akainu couldn’t get up or was knocked out since him being knocked out would mean he’d fall into the water in the ravine and die, and him not being able to stand up isn’t provable. This isn’t even the akainu people use to scale too. 2. Saying “Luffy only lost due to time limit” doesn’t make sense. He still lost. Kizaru had several nerfs on him and Luffy in context was going all out, and he pretty much lost. Time limit or not, he lost, it’s that simple.
@@jikey1731.saying akainu had to hold back…it’s a dumb take to be honest especially when the entire time akainu fought whitebeard he kept saying he was gonna end him…
@@jikey1732.luffy didn’t lose to kizaru 💀gear 5s power is what taxed luffy,you sitting there and acting like kizaru knocked luffy tf out when all that happened was luffy sent your boy flying and then he gassed out after that’s it 😂.
Garp vs Kuzan was just a Mike Tyson fight versus Jake Paul in one piece if you’re being honest garp went out there with sacrificial intentions let’s be honest
Big Mom was held back by the story. In Whole Cake she was unstoppable, her entire crew couldn't deal with her, and Luffy and the gang had no chance of victory in a straight fight (even as a team). In Wano, Kaido had to be the primary antagonist, so she was forced to take a back seat and become a secondary antagonist. It's also worth noting that Kid and Law only won by ring out, as she clearly had more fight left in her. Big Mom is definitely the weakest Yonko, but a lot of people underestimate her.
How I see it Admirals are really powerful and if they really wanted to they can destroy islands and cost madness wherever they go but they are hired by the world government so they technically like really powerful security guards in away and they mainly put Yonkos in check so they don’t destroy the world because yonkos are just overwhelmed powerful if they out and a loose
One major issue I have in the yonko vs admiral debate is “ohhhh if the admirals were stronger, why would they need pacifista’s and warlord” the world governments goal is ruling the entire planet. The warlords are meant to counterbalance the fact that things can happen anywhere in the world and an admiral might not be there. The counterpoint of then why did they need them to fight just oldbeard? They’re on the payroll why not tell them to show up, save some of the admirals strength so no one gets injured, and they needed mihawk to keep vista busy for a while.
if a single admiral is on average stronger than a single yonko, why not send off two to take care of the yonko? rinse and repeat and all the yonko are beat. you can easily defend home as you still have the fleet admiral and the other admiral, and if they recognise the threat and band together after the fact, its 3 yonko vs 3 admirals +fleet admiral and the marines have significantly more and there are vice admirals.
@@ansonchan8537 One piece is extremely political, sending off admirals to take out a yonko and their crew isn’t smart. It wastes resources and time, also adding onto the fact that the Yonko have an advantage especially if they were to fight in their territory. It’s like saying, if China has a larger military force and the same grade weapons as the US, why doesn’t China just launch a full attack to take control? There’s still little bits and pieces that could make that kind of strategy completely fall apart. Plus, plot plays a huge part of it
@@cameronstevens2053 first i'd like to address your final point, yes plot plays a part in why things dont happen, but plots tend to make sense, hence, the reason why they dont simply send two admirals off tends to not be that its not fun for the story, but rather they simply cant. Secondly, time and resources. in war most resources are spent moving and keeping solders alive as well as weapons and ammunition. with admirals, this problem is almost nonexistant. Kizaru, who travels at the speed of light, greenbull, who flew into wano, an incridibly difficult to invade island, Fujitora- flying battleship/rock/whatever. time and resources would scarecly be an issue. Third, territorial advantage. whilst yes the emperors have their fleet and whatever buildings they have, would this be enough to stop 2 people stronger than yonko from killing one yonko? lets take oden for an example, he and his retainers managed to severely injure kaido. whilst kaido was weaker than he is today, he still had the territorial advantage and a massive crew and was ready for battle. surely 2 admirals could jump current kaido, ambush him on one of his suicide attempts. the problem is lesser with big mom, the rest of her crew is vastly weaker than her, should a single admiral be stronger than big mom, two would be stronger than her entire country. Your simile is not accurate. its more of if if instead of nukes we still only had battleships and the US was fighting off 4 smaller countries. the US has 4 battleships and a massive amount of weaker ships, whilst each smaller country only has 1 and a swarm of weaker ships. sending off 2 battleships to sink the 1 battleship of each smaller country is feasable and makes them a much easier target for the massive fleet of smaller ships later on.
I think we just need to stop saying “… level” and instead focus on individuals, Akainu beats most Yonko’s but Fujitora loses to most Yonko’s, Primebeard beats most admirals but Bigmom loses to most admirals for example, it’s also been pretty clear from the start that Greenbull and Fujitora are naturally weak for admirals since they were both recruited bc 2 admirals just disappeared with Akainu being promoted and Aokiji leaving the marines, id even go as far to say that I think Akainu or Aokiji (maybe Kizaru but less likely) could beat Fujitora and Greenbull at once
12:48 I’m so sick of people saying the admirals beat them. Akainu got no diff’d by the weakest WB ever and Kuzan wasn’t mentally nerfed he just got slammed until Garp was stabbed
i feel as though big mom is smarter than most people give her credit, at least smarter than kaido and luffy, however she suffers from bouts of irrationality, like hercules but constantly rather than the one time bout of madness
Big mom is majorly nerfed by layers upon layers if mental illness, I dont think she's dumb, it's just that going straight from eating everyone she ever loved to being groomed, to just nonstop inflicting her derranged perception of what it means to have a loving relationship on the world around her with no one with both the power or desire to stop her... thats a pretty unstable concoction to be cooking up when it comes to someones brain chemistry. She can be naive and childish at times but given how ruthless and on point she is at others I think this is a trauma response and not an indication of her actual IQ, hence why she's so inconsistent. Now all the Yonko are messed up in the head in there own special way and need a LOT of therapy... with White Beard being the exeption and just needing a perfectly normal amount of therapy. Big Mom needs more damn therapy than the rest of the Yonko combined.
Dude you're pumping content out!! don't get my wrong I'm happy, but make sure to take some time to rest 😊 Amazing video as always, also a tip, hashtags on youtube don't work, dont put time into it if you have a tight schedule
Akainu vs WB was not close, every other admiral was absolutely styling on him before WB snuck Papazuki. He then proceeds to punch off half his face and put a hole in his stomach, while not even sustaining scars by the vengeful Yonko. Akainu was holding back not to destroy the island (we see what he's capable of doing to an island in PUNK HAZARD) and WB was sick, injured and old. The scrap between theme was mid diff in Akainu's favor and I believe that had they fought off the island and WB wasn't sick it'd be the same. A younger WB might be able to defeat the now Fleet Admiral but it'd be very close no matter who wins.
@kingkosuu Roger claps primebeard everyday. 1)Kaido stated that only Roger made the seas “bow down”; with haki alone at that 2) young Kaido stated that Roger was the only person he did not want to fight and he said this in front of primebeard’s face 3)Roger was the “top pirate” for over a decade(as stated by Sengoku) before getting the one piece and being named pirate king(god valley was 38 years ago - Roger stopped being a pirate/found the one piece 23 years ago = 15 years of Roger’s era/ Roger as the top guy 4) Shiki came and stated that it was whitebeard’s “era” ONLY after Roger was gone 5) the story is literally set up for the people in the “strawhat line” to be the strongest of their eras: joyboy during the void century; Roger during the golden age; shanks during the previous/current era; and Luffy for the “new age” 6) you don’t make a story about a legendary man being so great that the mc wants to chase that legacy but that person was actually second best. That’s like deku chasing endeavor instead of all might or Naruto chasing an uchiha instead of the hokage 7) “Gold Roger was the man that had it all” not all but the strength to beat Whitebeard 8) Luffy sees being pirate king as being the freest man in the world and when he said that Rayleigh was reminded of Roger. And being the freest man as a pirate meant you could go anywhere and do anything and no one could stop you, sooooo……. And just an extra point: Garp compared capturing old Rayleigh to fighting old Whitebeard during the paramount war, which would mean Roger is WAY above Whitebeard; because Whitebeard was still active and had a whole crew and affiliated crews but Rayleigh was retired and by himself.
I will say that there’s a lot more variance when it comes to the Yonkou power levels. Even the weakest Admirals like Greenbull are still capable of putting up a good fight compared to Sakazuki. But the gap between Buggy and Kaido, for example, is much wider than any gap within the admirals
well thats bcos admirals are selected purely based on strength only. They need the strongest in the verse to represent the strongest force in the world. Thats not the case for yonkos. its influence
To keep it simple the Admirals are way closer to “Yonko lvl”(Fan made construct) in terms of strength than “Commander lvl”(Fan made construct). Akainu VS WB & the entire WB pirates with Crocodile & Ivankov in Marineford without being defeated. Fujitora never got touched physically in dressrosa; blocking all attacks in every interaction VS characters. GreenBull VS a weakened King & Queen; faced Yamato & the remnants of the Scabbers(Inu & Neko) then later defeated & captured Weevil. Lastly Kizaru who countered; speed blitz & possibly one shot post wano gear 4 Luffy; then fought & outperformed 1 round of gear 5 while mentally conflicted. Barely injured by the White Star Gun caused he got up after & helped Luffy. And we know Akainu now is definitively stronger than Kizaru. Everything else use to counter this is just plot & misinterpretations of their characters & the situation. RUclips Allfather Silver; he called it(Fun Fact:Did you know that every definitive strongest Admiral(Fleet Admiral candidates at least) has a relationship/dynamic with every def. Strongest/own the era pirate(Not Pirate King or Yonko)? Kong-Xebec; Garp-Roger; SenGoku-WB; Akainu-Luffy; & Aokiji-BB. There’s a reason why Oda has introduced the concept of the world’s strongest; Mihawk & WB before the Yonko. Throughout the series it’s constantly been proven that the term Yonko itself doesn’t translate to Top 4 strongest pirates/characters in the show; Yonko & Pirate King aren’t strength based titles. If you compare that for the Marines; the highest common denominator to increase in rank is tied to your strength. Garp; asked to become an Admiral several times cause of his strength but turned it down; the Gorosei made Aokiji & Akainu fought for Fleet Admiral; & combined that with Nico Robin’s statement; the Admirals are the strongest in the Marines. The way we use “Yonko lvl” in the community really should be Fleet Admiral lvl; since Garp & Roger almost killed each other multiple times while SenGoku was fighting WB; we need to fix this as a community.
He didn't "one-shot" Gear 4 Luffy. One shot would be putting Luffy out in commission like what Kaido or Shanks did. But Luffy still had the energy to go Gear 5. Also, Luffy only lost due to his time limit and never got any real lethal damage from Kizaru. Without the time limit, Luffh was eating his attacks and never needed a barrage of attacks to put him down. All three attacks were one-shots. One of them is the pizza thing with Saturn where he has no reason to "nerf" himself as Vegapunk was already down.
Admirals and Yonko just represent different moralities and ideals. Your faction does not represent your actual power. As of Elbaph Blackbeard is #1 in the verse. If Kuzan would have ran into any other crew except Shanks or Blackbeard he would have no diffed.
Based on the fight, Kizaru has the advantage in speed and stamina while Luffy showed better attack potency and durability. People keep forgetting that Luffy only "lost" due to his time limit in Gear 5 and not from any real damage from Kizaru.
@@mstr293 yea so? He still loses in a 1v1. It’s implied G5 Luffy did minimal damage on Kizaru, he didn’t even have any scratches or bandages leaving Egghead. With stamina we can have a different convo but as of now, Kizaru was trying to help Luffy on Egghead, Kizaru could’ve killed him.
Garp was defo not going all out because if he was he would of attacked the arm of pizaro instead of relying on koby to do it. How do we know this he blitzs past aokiji and everyone and smashed the head. He could of done the exact same thing with pizaros arm instead of his head and they could of all escaped. Not to mention the last panel of garp being impaled on the ground its all the blackbeard pirates that were there surrounding him so he highly likely got jumped
Shanks vs. Mihawk and Zoro vs. Sanji are obvious if you have and look at the right information. The Admirals vs. Yonko is more complex because they vary in strength to a certain degree.
Average Yonko (Kaido, Big Mom) seems beyond average admiral (Issho, Aramaki). *However*, veteran admiral (Kizaru) are probably quite close or even equal, and then you have Marine Prodigy (Sakazuki, Kuzan, Garp, maybe Sengoku) who may very well be between average Yonko and Pirate King. But it's not clear really. I still have typical Yonko beyond typical admiral because then the Warlords/Seraphim make no sense. Marineford probably doesn't factor in much, though, since peak Whitebeard and Roger are still heavily implied to be a level beyond Sakazuki even now with his 5 billion Cross Guild bounty. My guess is that the Marines treated Sickbeard as if he was still Peakbeard, who would've been beyond any of them, including Garp.
akainu is a headadmiral not a admiral. kuzan is no longer a admiral. and even kizaru might quit. but all of them are losing to every yonko while still having admiral status
Kid and law beat Big mom. Its matter of devil fruit ability.Doffy was beaten by Luffy but in whole cake Luffy was struggling with cracker.Same Doffy who restricted diamond Jozu.If we look at 1st commander ,non of them has been beaten by admiral or yonko when they are in full strength.Green bull was lucky he found queen and king in that state.It is sad because King wasn't even bad matchup for greenbull .He could fly ,use fire and his slashes which gave Zoro some trouble even Kaido slash didn't do anything to Zoro. I am not saying 1st commander can't be beaten but beating someone like King and Marco will drain even admiral.
Blitzing snakeman isn’t a feat for Kizaru it’s a feat for Luffy He reacted to faster than light acceleration FROM A LONG DISTANCE WITHOUT FS OR REGULAR OBSERVATION And inflated gears slow Luffy down Sure his combat speed is crazy but his reaction is slower And for the Kaido argument Luffy was using acoc, and we saw how big of an amp acoc was to Luffy(Kaido confirmed you can stack ryuo on acoc by saying Luffy did it in g5 at some point), so even if Kizaru wasn’t holding back Luffy using acoc could still win(he can stack ryuo on top)
Ps I think the old gen people could have beaten their Admiral counterparts “Akainu was holding back” why would he hit Whitebeard who he’s trying to kill any weaker than his strongest? The only stat he held back was dc because they didn’t want to destroy Marineford And old Whitebeard was able to down Akainu for a bit and go on to take MUCH MORE(he had a literal HEART ATTACK prior) without using acoc (obv for plot reasons) so he was the one that was nerfed(crocodile confirmed it too and imagine getting speedblitzed by base SQUARD) And old Garp , though less impressive one shotted Sanjuan wolf with NO HAKI and blitzed Kuzan(who would actually be nerfed because he was stated to be soft) But if Garp hadn’t taken Shiryu’s stab he would give Kuzan a good fight that could go either way
Your takes aren't wrong but there are some outrageous claims made when talking about characters without enough screen time to scale. Like Ben beckmen. He is surely going to be low yonko level unless he is a complete fraud so there is something to be said for him taking on some of these admirals (maybe not the top 2). When I say low yonko I mean characters like prime Zoro in the future, prime Raleigh, Hawkeye, Sengoku, etc
Prime Whitebeard Insane Diffs Prime Sengoku (same result if they’re in their old age) Shanks Low Diffs Akainu Kaidou Low Diffs Kuzan Prime Big Mom Mid Diffs Kizaru (though I would say Kizaru Extreme Diffs Old Big Mom) Blackbeard Extreme Diffs Fujitora Luffy High Diffs Ryokugyu Yonko definitely murk the Admirals
6:45 mihawk fans sure don't respect him, as a shanks fan i say they are relative with shanks taking the edge because of the conqueror feats we seen alone
GrandLineReview said he thinks Big Mom still is in the mental state of her child self and I never thought about that but it explains her lower intelligence
This debate was always interesting to me, since it really only exists "outside" the story. One Piece itself has always been extremely clear about the answer. Yonko are stronger - no questions asked. There is not a single point in the story where an Admiral and a Yonko fight and the admiral comes out even in "ok shape", nor managing to stall the Yonko. They always without a shadow of a doubt lose. Old Whitebeard, despite being mid-heart attacks practically kills the strongest admiral with Two attacks.(This is the guy who then has a 10 day fight with another Admiral.) None of the Admirals have the capacity to kill Kaidou during his capture.(which kinda adds up since we know Kaidou can swim in magma and be just fine for a prolonged time period.) Greenbull actually gets wifi haki diffed and surrenders on the spot. Kizaru gets One shot twice, and is literally a side-character who gets thrown out of a fight he isn't strong enough to be in.(People forget that luffy had to be heavily nerfed by going through the barrier twice, which he himself says nearly killed him for the first round to be even a fight.) Hell, the most damning thing to me isn't even those honestly, but the story treats them weak enough that one of the Admirals.. one basically Dead-Even with Akainu becomes a Henchman for Blackbeard. BB just casually has an admiral working for him, and this isn't going to have any effects on the final arc. Think about that. But yeah it's interesting since the "debate" - as I said only exists outside of the verse. Both actual fights and narrative portrayal have always made it crystal clear that Admiral have absolutely not a snowballs chance in hell with a Solo fight against a Yonko. Even at the intrudction of the concept it took the Warlords, Navy and the World Goverment to just equal the Yonkos as a wide-reaching power.
1. It really depends. Oda constantly makes them relative. Whenever he talks about being 'strongest' he mentions both Admirals and Emperors. Chinjao speech, and Oda's own words about becoming strongest, means having to beat BOTH Admirals and Emperors (When he talked about Bullet character in Stampede Volume) 2. Kizaru vs WB. Borsalino Injured Newgate while Edward couldn't even injure him. Also, basically every Admiral encounter at Marineford was in favor of them against WB. Borsalino left wound, Akainu despite being caught off-guard, overall did more damage to WB than, he recieved. Only Kuzan didn't had a clean hit BUT would've if Jozu wasn't there to stop him. 3. Practically kills? Doubt it. Sakazuki was just out of battlefield for a moment. He was bleeding? So was Kaido after fighting Yamato. What matter is that Akainu literally got up and showed to not feel any damage afterwards, and clashed with all Division Commanders (Minus Jozu) and managed to get through them. Sakazuki's magma by vaporizing steel proves his Magma > Regular one. Aramaki left because he was overwhelmed. He isn't throwing hands with One Emperor to just get to another one. He would be badly Injured (Though I do think that Shanks would win that 1v1), so chasing SPECIFICALLY a exhausted Emperor would be even bigger problem. People close eye on the fact that Aramaki KNEW it was Shanks haki which either means he faced him or felt him with observation through Island. He also said he isn't gonna fight him YET. Kizaru was hinted by Oda to be the one who fed Luffy. He could easily finish down Luffy, but decided to perception blitz everyone and just get him food and go back to acting he is 'wounded'. Meaning that After G5 ACOC attack he was fine. Saying that Luffy was nerfed because he was KICKED by Kizaru through barrier but ignoring that Borsalino was mentally nerfed WHICH by logic nerfs someone's Haki as it is connected to WILL of person, is also another example of closing eye on something. 4. The story also nearly made Borsalino go handle the Big Mom/Kaido situation and Sakazuki his superior didn't even corrected him. Kuzan also is in BB's crew for his own reasons which was the one of main things that made him to join when Teach mentioned that everyone is there for their own things. Teach himself wasn't even confident in facing him. And being under someone isnt really argument. There are examples of groups/organizations in One Piece, where character works under someone and is STRONGER than the leader. Even hierarchy wise in BB's crew, Shiryu despite being weaker was choosed by Oda to be right-hand man. 5. Oda gave Admirals bounty of 3b which is close to Emperors overall. Sure, Law and Kid also have it. But they beated Emperor just like Luffy. Bounty scaling is odd, but I bring that up as more of 'symbolism' here. Admirals all have 3b, which makes them same wanted as Emperors (Luffy, Blackbeard's old bounty when be was Emperor) and slayers of emperor. And add to that Akainu being worth 5b, which is 3rd highest bounty in series, which puts him in range of Pirate King and the man that was one of two rivals of pirate king bounty wise.
@@kfc-employee1380 1. Oda has never made them relative in his life. The Admirals are a Milestone. They're obvioulsy important - but from the very introduction of the Yonko Oda made it Crystal clear that these forces weren't equal. The World government, the Navy and the Warlords only together were an Equal - To the Yonko. The warlords were a Required Piece - to do so. If the Admirals were relative to the Yonko this wouldn't be the case, as the Yonko don't fight together and you could easily take them out one by one.(As all three admirals are indeed on one side of the conflict.) 2. This is a complete meme tier argument and you lost a lot of credibility just by making it. WB was dying - and Borsanilo was running away - for his life. What, you wanna make the argument that Kizaru(who got one shot by a fresh Yonko multiple times, and then was just thrown out of the fight with someone stronger, by the same fresh Yonko.) is so much stronger than Akainu that he could beat him without ever getting touched ? Akainu is the strongest Admiral. Even by Marineford. That is literally why he's the Fleet Admiral - Kizaru was never even considered for the position. Kizaru played hit and run - and whitebeard was not moving around to dodge anything during the entire arc. What Kizaru did to him was a paper cut to the damage he had taken over the arc. 3. "Curse you whitebeard...!!!" - Falls down a ravine and is literally physically paralyzed to the point he can't stop himself from slowly sliding down. He grabs a ledge and climbs onto it at the Last moment to prevent his death. If he falls into the water, he is dead and currently out of the story. The cope here is only making you look worse - Nobody of a sane mind would Ever even propose that Akainu was just "uhm, slightly hurt" - no he literally was done. He vomits blood and literally can't move for a prolonged time period. Green Bull was forced to transform back - out of his logia form and was in legit pain from Shanks ranged haki. That's not in any question, it happens on screen and panel, and you can see the pain on his face. He himself said he wouldn't have gone to Wano if Kaidou was still around as well - he just cannot fight any Yonko. You'll have to accept that. Kizaru feeding luffy is completely irrelevant. It doesn't make him be in fighting shape, so it remains a complete headcanon. You could still grab a plate of food even with a broken leg and a thousand bruises, it'd just suck. Especially irrelevant because he can make light clones and doesn't even have to move with his physical body to do it lmao. 4. And Luffy said he'd beat Big Mom before he legit had the ability to damage her or even endure a single attack from her. The story didn't do that - Luffy didn't even end up beating her. He just Said it. Same with Kizaru. Kizaru just Said he would. That doesn't mean he could. Why do you think the World Government considered making Kaidou angry a serious threat and causality they'll have to take, if Kizaru can just beat him ? It's inconsistent with the straight-up plot of OP. Also Kaidou beats G5 multiple times despite having fought for days, and Kizaru is literally collateral damage during Luffies fight with his actual opponent. Way to take what a character says as gospel lol. 5. Buggy has a bounty higher than any admiral right now. Are you entirely sure we're trying to go into the "Bounty means power" situation ?
@@crazagres1839 1. If Oda wouldn't care about them and just set them as milestone, whenever a term of being strongest/be pirate king, would be brought, he wouldn't make characters directly say that to achieve one of those goals, it is necessary to surpass both Admirals and Emperors. Simply Emperors would be enough if they were truly at level of their own. Even Oda said that himself in one of Stampede Volumes about Bullet and what IT means to be strongest, that Admirals just like Emperors are requirment to beat to be called strongest. IIRC, Databook green said that Navy + Warlords = 4 Emperors. You have 3 Admirals + Mihawk vs 4 Captains. Rest of Warlords are comparable to Commanders, and that still isn't equal (6 warlords vs at least 12 notable commanders). Outside Admirals and FA, Marines aren't having strong fighters (Besides maybe Tokikake and Gion.) And they still replaced Warlords with Seraphims who outside being durable (Lunarian Durability) aren't much more impressive than their original counter-parts as for now. 2. I don't really get what you meant in this point with Akainu and Kizaru. Sakazuki is strongest Admiral no doubt. Never meant he isn't. What I meant is that Kizaru managed to land a hit against Newgate. Also when was Kizaru running away? It was Edward who engaged into battle with him by trying to stop him. WB despite having chance was unable. Which counters your whole point that 'Never in series, Admiral was fine after fighting Emperor'. Kizaru was fine. Akainu was wounded by in better shape than heavily wounded WB who missed half of face and had two massive holes in himself which was making him bleed quite a lot. Kuzan would deal damage if not interrupted by Jozu. 3. He was done? Then I suppose 'done' and 'nearly killed' Akainu can get through all remaining division commanders + Crocodile like It's nothing. Never said Sakazuki wasn't Injured. He was. But saying he was nearly dead when AFTER short time when he came back he literally showed no signs of even being affected other than blood. Sure he was paralyzed. Also, you said yourself that It would be water that would kill him (Unknown if there was water at the bottom IIRC but sure). Not WB but water in your opinion. And still, you use THIS to downscale Sakazuki but you're bringing up that Luffy was Injured by barrier when Kizaru kicked him, as a nerf to Luffy and not a feat for Borsalino. 'cope' you say. As for Akainu showing reaction. So did Kaido when Scabbards (Outside 3 of them, rest aren't beating commander) stabbed him. He was screaming and sweating. In fact even characters like Zoro without Ashura got Kaido to show reaction. Even kid with Simple toss got reaction from Kaido. Law got Kaido to yell by simple rocks. Sure, I suppose you can say Aramaki got his Logia form out and was paralyzed by Shanks Haki. His Devil Fruit Powers were up for a while still after this. He felt that sure. But again, simple 'woah' or 'dahh' is better than Kaido screaming from sharp rocks with clear pain. Aramaki was sweating, but again doubt that he would be sassy if he would be fully outclassed. If Aramaki would fight Shanks (Assuming he would ward off him, (though as I said I do think that Shanks would win a 1v1 between them)) he would be heavily Injured and making his mission to get Straw-Hat pointless. He came for Luffy not for a fight with full healthy Emperor. This is literally same as Teach being worried and deciding to leave when Old Rayleigh appeared. But I guess we only care that Ryokugyu is admiral which is why we downplay only him. Besides, I do have OG Emperors being closer to OG Admirals, while the New Emperors (Current Luffy and Teach) are relative to New Admirals (Aramaki, Isshou). But I can see this as anti-feat at the end of day. Just like Luffy being saved by Kizaru but eh. Kizaru literally had energy to perception blitz everyone, get food, deliver it to Luffy and make him recover with it. If he had ENERGY for that, a simple laser to finish off Luffy isn't problem. If Borsalino would be badly injured, I don't see him being up and going with his mission/task. He was acting to be out of breath, but the fact is that he was concious and had energy to fight. 'making light clones'. If he would have strength for that, I don't see him not having strength to finish off Luffy who was out of stamina. But sure buddy. Head-canon. 4. Oh, so a cocky main character that doesn't have any idea of the gap between him and her, that basically nearly always overestimate himself is same as a fully experienced marine that at this point knows how strong Emperors are, and knows when to not act stupidly/on impulse when on worse position is same? Didn't knew that. Borsalino in vivre-card was said to adapt to a Gear 5 quickly because of his experience. Besides, simple fact that a statement from top-tier who aknowledge a strength of other top-tiers is more reliable than whatever a cocky character that is far behind the pinnacle of power in verse says. But I guess you find this exactly as same things. 'why do you considered making Kaido angry a serious threat..' And somehow Akainu literally ignored the threat of two emperors joining forces knowing this will cause them to rebel and more troublesome to keep on leash, by leaving everything in hands of 'samurai'. Not to mention, that 4 Emperors system does benefit WG than simply erasing them. They COULD do it if they wanted, considering how many fighters WG and Navy alone has that can fight the respective captains. Saturn send out Kizaru at Egghead knowing Luffy, a person with really strong fruit and person that take down Kaido is there and will probably fight back. That kinda bites itself with whole 'not make Kaido angry' thing. Kaido only outlasted initial Gear 5, and dominated him for a short moment. Full health Kaido would beat Luffy no doubt. However, Kizaru had upper-hand against Luffy/G4 Luffy and had him to use Gear 5 to actually fight with him. And still Kizaru outlasted him and had chance to finish him. I'm not gonna go with the whole 'Luffy used ACOC or didn't used'. Oda even in fight against Kaido not always included 'black lightnings' when ACOC attacks were used by both characters when after Luffy learned it, and the damage was same as when the lightning was. In fact, Oda literally didn't even drew Gear 5 attack being coated in Busoshoku and still it was supposed to damage Kizaru. Kizaru and Gear 5 Luffy power-wise are close, and I'm giving Borsalino a slight edge compared to Current Luffy. 5. Didn't meant the 'bounty = strength'. I included it in previous comment but maybe I came with wrong words or whatever. But Buggy having that bounty isn't destroying my argument, as he is seen as Emperor. But my bad then if I used wrong words earlier. What I meant, is that oda makes Admiral have similiar bounty as Emperors or characters that beated one. And the fact that he made Sakazuki have 5b bounty when he could just simply make it lower for Admirals and adjust Sakazuki to have it lower as well. But he didn't. Also your point here also attacks your own argument that you didn't answered about Kuzan being weak because he is commander of other Emperor. Both Kuzan and Mihawk serve under Teach/Buggy because they benefit. With Kuzan it is even more complex as he has his own agenda. But again, there are more examples where hierarchy =/= power. 6. Also, in newest vivre-cards it is said that mentally nerfed Kuzan fought against Garp who had same strength as when he had when he was chasing Roger. Odd statement, but again a way to say/show that Admirals and Emperors are comparable.
@@kfc-employee1380 So much yap to say basically nothing. Most of the points here are outright Self-Evidently wrong, and were a waste to even type out. Next time you attempt to debate, try to consider the points of others and maybe realize that sometimes,your opinion was just wrong. 1. Assuming author intent is a just a fallacy so there's almost nothing here worth responding to. The only point I'll even bring up is "Navy + Warlords = 4 Emperors. You have 3 Admirals + Mihawk vs 4 Captains." Like.. no ? Lol. If it was only Mihawk - the system would've been abolished long ago, and they'd just have him on payroll. It is not the navy and Mihawk is equal to the emperors..! Its the navy / wg and All of the Shichibukai equaling the Pirates. The other ones are needed as well - this is directly stated. Your personal headcanon is worthless here entirely. It's not even internally consistent, as the Admirals would just team up to wipe out the Yonko one by one. 2. Do you know who else managed to land a hit against whitebeard ? Fodder marine number #76 who jumped at him with a sword. If you noticed- he's not dodging. He knows this is his last fight, he legit doesn't care. He can tank anything these people can throw at him, and he has. Never in the series was an admiral fighting an emperor on even ground, unless you consider fodder marine 76# feat admiral level I guess and "fighting a Yonko on equal ground..!" He performed the same and ended the same way( having to move away for one reason or another.) 3. Akainu was nearly dead. Nothing you say will ever change the explicit canon here. He quietly literally couldn't even move his hand enough - after vomiting blood to save himself from dying.(He had no way of knowing if there was a ledge he could grab if he fell down down.) As far as he knew - that was his end. And it legit would've been, had he not gotten lucky with a ledge. It's a completely undeniable scene - and a major plot point in and of itself. It's what allowed the main character to survive and the story to take place. No amount of cope will ever change this. 4. Yes welcome to one piece, not so happy to have you. Kizaru acts cocky even when he's in the shitter. That's his literal entire character. Benn Beckman was one trigger-pull away from ending his life and he was still pretty chill. Kizaru's overconfidence and always chill attitude is part of what makes him fun, and enjoyable to read about. Kizaru would get clowned by Kaidou with 0 diff, though not for lack of trying. Akainu didn't ignore anything. It was Wano - what they could do was very, very limited at the time and he's not the guy in charge, that's the elders who he Works for as a subordinate. Enraging Kaidou could lead to a war much worse than the one with Whitebeard. If you try arguing things like this, do give the manga a read, clears up a lot of your confusion. The Elders - who are stronger than Any Admiral by a mile - were scared of Kaidou's rampage. One of them is so strong that Luffy can't even penetrate their basic armamanet Haki btw and it hurts his hand to hit them. Sure didn't see that from Kizaru. Kaidou has quite literally brawled through 2 G5s, after fighting an entire war. Kizaru doesn't outlast him at all. What are you talking about ? Kizaru Loses their first round. He gets close for sure - the reasoning behind which is explained directly in the manga. Luffy nearly dies - which he himself states - by going through the light barrier(which doesn't harm Kizaru.) twice. That's the reason. Kizaru loses basically the moment Round 2 starts, despite having an immortal elder to draw the attention away from him. 5. You did, you mentioned they got "big bounties and therefor important..!" Newsflash - never been the case. Kidd had a bounty of 3 billion(equal to your precious admirals.) and he's out of the story now lmao. A Big bounty just means the WG wants you out of the picture. They're only meant to be a legit progression for the Strawhats who "earn" it if you will. In most cases, my guy a bounty is just a bounty. A cheap hype tool at most. Kidd had a higher one than Luffy over just attacking civilians. Kuzan is a subordinate. I don't know if you've read OP... but Mihawk doesn't Actually work for Buggy as much as its a meme. They just use him as a "face" - to do what they want through. They literally bully and disrespect him non-stop. Kuzan Works for Blackbeard. Not the same thing.
@@crazagres1839 And that is because...? I answered all your points. Unlike you who skipped some of mine when you didn't had a way to counter them/answer them. But typical 'debating' situation where other person just being overwhelmed decides to attack other way instead showing counter-arguments. You played yourself. 'consider points of others' mate, that line described your whole comments. But sure buddy. Keep going with your own way of thinking and totally not understanding the story itself. 1. Author words is fallacy? Sure keep thinking that. Oda himself stated something and that is what matters. Unless you know the series better than him, then both of your comments are pointless and literally waste of time both for you and me. It was Navy + Emperors. Not WG. So, Navy + Warlords = 4 Emperors (Basically Crews and allies). Keep your points at least right. 'if it was only Mihawk', somehow two of the original warlords got beated by Pre-TS Luffy, and every other warlord was surpassed at WCI based on their showings. It was just recent when Oda made Hancock bounty raise, and that's all. But even not counting her, the rest literally aren't getting past 1YC characters. Kuma, Doflamingo, Jinbei. For navy you can argue about Old Garp and Sengoku being there, but Admirals should be stronger than them at that time. So again, your point is dismissed. Seems like your 'opinion' isn't the one that is right as well huh. Ah. The typical 'If Admirals would be relative they would team up to beat..' like, what? If Emperors would be stronger than Navy they would just team up and then rule the seas by themselves. They don't know about WG fighters or anything. This is the most basic and literally one of the most ridiculous argument that is used and you just proved to be that PERSON. Congrats. 'Warlords are needed', they were supposed to be needed. But Oda clearly just didn't thought about power-scaling them right for the story, as again Warlords aren't doing much to Emperors themselves. Even at Marineford nearly none of them did something special. At the end, keep in mind that WG has benefits of having Emperors around. But that probably is too much for you to even get. One important note is that Navy had to hold back to keep their Island as a symbol of theirs (Sengoku, Kizaru, Sakazuki all had moments when they literally wanted to make Island survive as much as it can) meanwhile Jinbei says to Luffy, that Newgate can go all out as his crew is adapted to his fighting style. 2. You know what else is diffrent? Whitebeard actually was fighting against Kizaru. While I don't recall him trying to hit and not being able to a mentioned fodder marine. But sure. Reading comprehension isn't your strong side, I get it. But to actually miss the basic logic is something worth to be in awe. Also, don't back up on your initial point that Admirals were never fine after fight against Emperor. The only fights you have in series like this (shown) are 3 Admirals vs WB (Each individually) and Aramaki vs Shanks. And somehow the former were able to overwhelm Newgate. Again, can't back up your claims. Don't get into debates then. 'never Admiral fought on equal ground'. Sure. Ignore the fact Kuzan would wound WB because he failed to stab him, Kizaru having upper-hand and Sakazuki actually doing more to Edward than he did to him. 3. He knew he was done? Way to try to put head-canon into reality bruh. Tell me IN WHAT panel he was shown to know he was done for? Unless you bring things out of your head, there isn't any single moment in Manga that shows this. If Sakazuki would be nearly dead, he wouldn't come back like nothing happend and proceed to clash with rest of Whitebeard pirates big shots and chase Luffy down. HOWEVER if you want to go with the 'Akainu was nearly done, because I said so!' we can stretch some showings such as ACTUAL 'nearly dead' Whitebeard getting actually done for by Blackbeard pirates, while SUPPOSED 'nearly dead' Akainu managed to get through Whitebeard's commanders and just continue his chase. Your logic isn't helping you. 'consider points of others', mate you're digging holes under yourself the more you try to prove that ONLY YOUR thinking is right when It's getting rejected by source.
Bro left out Buggy so the Admirals have a chance.
Needed to leave the mighty buggy out🙏🏾
I just hate the yonko and admiral levels... it's such a stupid generalisation. Like no, Big Mom is not beating Akainu, and no, Greenbull is not beating Primebeard.
Current or marineford akainu? Cause marineford akainu is weaker than an old, sick, and mortally wounded whitebeard.
@@Hpyktxdif u actually read the manga you would know that whitebeard had to sneak akainu while having a rage amp. Akainu got up and punched a hole through his body and took off half his face.
@@Yezzzaaa
WB 2 shot Akainu lol
I think Big Mom at her maximum potential can beat Akainu.
@Yezzzevwn a fodder marine had time to tell akainu to look out but his slow ass couldn't dodge
i always figured admirals were somewhere between yonko commander and yonko level, give or take. i feel like if the marines had four yonko level fighters, plus their world-government funded fleet, plus CP0, plus the warlords (or seraphim), they wouldn't have been shitting themselves over big mom and kaido teaming up. hell, i'd say they would have taken over the new world by now
edit: i also wanted to mention their performance at marineford. whitebeard had a big fleet, but if the admirals were all yonko level, i really dont think whitebeard's fleet would've performed nearly as well as it did. especially because whitebeard was probably the weakest of the yonko during marineford. his only working haki was armament haki, and he was taking damage from sword strikes and gunshots. his devil fruit was the strongest in the world, yeah, but he was really restricted in how he could use it during marineford because he didn't wanna hit his own allies. even with those restrictions, while severely damaged, he dealt akainu some serious damage. akainu was able to blow half his face off, yeah, but whitebeard was extremely nerfed and damaged by that point. if akainu was as strong as big mom or kaido, he would've packed whitebeard up with no trouble at all
Admirals had to hold back so they don't destroy the island. As an admiral, they have tons of restrictions that don't allow them to go all out especially in government islands.
We've seen the Admirals against Yonko caliber characters and they all have good showings, they're no where near commander level
@@KingKosuu i said they're somewhere between commander and yonko level, which side of the spectrum they lean toward probably depends on the admiral. The only one we've gotten to see have a 1v1 is kizaru, and while his showings against luffy and rayleigh are good, you could argue that luffy's stamina problems hold him back from actually being yonko level (kaido could outlast him a dozen times over despite luffy being as strong and fast as him). We just haven't seen enough of the admirals to clock exactly where they are. Like, you could probably argue that kizaru is the same level as akainu since they're both OG admirals and we haven't seen akainu do anything outside marineford yet (but for some reason people glaze the shit out of him anyway). There's not much evidence to say one way or the other. I personally think they're generally somewhere between commander and yonko level (stronger than commander but weaker than yonko) and ive explained why. Once we get to see more of the admirals, that might change. But for now, i don't see the admirals ALL being yonko level (i think akainu probably is, but again, no proof yet)
@@KingKosuu I don't he means they are close to commanders he's just saying they are the in-between I think which does kinda make sense why would you have 3 yonko level fighters plus the fleet admiral Imo akainu and kuzan are fleet admiral level which is like the equivalent of a yonko. But the 3 admirals are one of the main reasons the governments maintain the current power balance cause they are stronger than commanders with only some 1st commanders coming close. The marines don't realistically need 4 yonko level fighters
@@KingKosuuzoro would neg diff Oldbeard via two things
Oldbeard can get hit by fodder meaning Zoro is confirmed to be able to hit him
Two getting damaged by hakiless attacks
Zoro uses Ashura and Wb is sliced in half so Zoro>any form of Oldbeard
There’s no levels
Originally I believe that the emperors were supposed to eclipse the admirals a bit, but at some point I think things shifted(As in Oda's plan for them). I entirely think it's matchup dependent now, with the average emperor being stronger than the average admiral.
Agreed
The only thing that's shifted is everyone's biased takes
isnt it obvious
wrong. admiral > yonko
@@admiralcon.doriano8026 you're a naruto fan so ofc im not surprised why your powerscaling is so wrong
Saying Kizaru and Koby can take out KAIDO is wicked work
Why’s that?
Gear 4 was very relative to hybrid kaido on the roof top.
Kizaru landed ONE attack on him, forcing him to go gear 5. Keep in mind this was a kizaru who wasn't putting in any where near full effort.
After that Kizaru was toying with gear 5 and ignoring him mostly. Luffy only got hits in when kizaru was careless or completely ignoring him. Meanwhile kaido was getting ragdolled consistently by gear 5 luffy
Because Kizaru will get mid-high diffed and slaughtered and Koby will be swiped away
@@KizaruGlazerswe see in the fight Luffy wasn't fighting Kizaru like how he fight Kaido right? He's not relying solely in using conquerors haki. And Kaido is already tire when he was fighting Luffy gear 4th but still folded Luffy a lot of time before that cp0 interrupt the fight Kaido was clearly winning 😂. and in gear 5th Kaido got Hit a lot of time of that attack that one shots Kizaru bro 😂😂😂
@@KizaruGlazers to add up to my point if Kaido decided to dodge Bajrang Gun Kaido could win that fight against Luffy gear 5.
Honestly, sengoku in the last days of his prime failing to take out bb and his crew in a jumping while bb got a double damage debuff should be a testament to his power
This. Like how does everyone overlook that, it legit puts Marineford BB > Marineford Sengoku. Unless you believe Sengoku is a fraud bc he couldn't one shot Balloon Luffy
Double pain≠Double Damage
I don’t take that fight seriously at ALL, Garp fought with him and they barely did anything to the Blackbeard pirates while garp by himself destroyed half of them later☠️
@@KingKosuu and people don't take into account that all the admirals where holding back during the marineford war as their strength at full power would literally destroy the marine base, so they where definitely nerfed
@@danchiziofficial2159 Held back? lol
7:39 The Roger disrespect is so funny. Do y’all really think Oda would make Gol.D Roger,one of luffys main inspirations a fraud? Saying whitebeard NEVER used his fruit powers against rogers sounds like agenda to me🌚
istg. We've never not seen WB use his fruit in a fight but all of a sudden he didn't use it against Roger?
@ FOR 3 DAYS⁉️ lemme stop before I have a stroke over agenda piece☠️
@@Dbonesburneraccount bruh💀. Whitebeard even used his fruit against Oden, who Roger swatted like a fly.. where is the logic?
This is literally the same logic Mihawk fans use but people just don't understand that Mihawk being weaker than shanks makes Zoro a fraud too
Facts I don't get this downplay, all of a sudden, WB is stronger cause he has a busted fruit despite the fact haki, which makes Roger fight back. It's even better in Roger cause he only has haki and is pushing back WB.
As I always say if the admirals were equal to the yonkos, there would be no need for the warlords, pacifistas, seraphims, etc.
They balance out their crews.
Exactly it’s literally so obvious
You cant , under any circumstance truly believe greenbull doesnt low diff all the yonko comanders besides rayleight and beckman.
@@elcalabozodelandroide2and Zoro.
But you're forgetting that Yonko has commanders, a crew and a Fleet
Admirals are mad underrated
Can't say the same about the fleet admiral.....
Nah their overrated by their delusional fans
They overrated
Overrated*
Funny how people are saying they're overrated, they're probably the same ones who downplay them 24/7.
Thanks to the recent sbs 110, Oda confirmed that it was Kizaru who gave Luffy the food in Egghead, so basically Kizaru was on the ground faking it and speed blitz all the people at Egghead even Saturn, so it's hard to say if Luffy vs Kizaru really was a stalemate,
He litrally fucking wasn't je gave luffy the food after he got back up
Kizaru was not taking it he felt every bit of that head shot & needed time to recover
Proof?
@@yamsbeansread the sbs
@greatenemy2734 mean to reply to someone else
This debate never made any sense to me. Admirals are relative to yonkos. The narrative shows it, the portrayel shows it, and in egghead, even then feats/statements show it.
It can't be generalized. Admirals are relative to some Yonkos, and above some Yonkos. Right now they're confidently above all the new Yonkos (Luffy, BB, buggy), but against the rest it's pretty mixed and goes from relative to below to above depending on which Yonko.
@@oinkyshploinky above Luffy? The same Luffy who goofied Kizaru, who is stronger than the rest except Akainu? Keep up, goofatron.
@@johnmeehan7884 yes. Above Luffy.
There was no goofying of Kizaru. We know Kizaru was mentally nerfed during the entire mission due to not wanting to kill Vegapunk (Confirmed when he says his wounds "run deep" despite him not having any physical wounds, clearly referring to mental wounds) (and mental nerfs are repeatedly confirmed to be a real thing that can highly hinder your power in One Piece), yet he still kept up with a G5 Luffy trying to knock him out. Even then, we know G5 couldn't knock him out, because Oda confirmed it was Kizaru who fed Luffy back to life after he gassed out meaning the WSG did minimal damage to him (a WSG that was more powerful than the one that stunned Kaido). Kizaru literally wanted Luffy to win and stop him, yet he still couldn't, cause in the end Kizaru still reaches Vegapunk and kills him. This is backed up by what we see- Kizaru, instead of being knocked out after taking the WSG right to the face, just lays on the ground with his hand on his face as if he just got his heart broken, not as if he just ate an attack that would threaten even the most durable Yonko, which is absolutely insane since he has no reason being as durable as Kaido. Regardless, he took the attack and proceeded to feed Luffy ramen as if nothing happened.
Funnily enough, this is also an absolutely ridiculous speed feat. Nobody noticed Kizaru feeding Luffy the food despite there being Sanji, Zoro and Saturn in the area. The Sanji that perception blitzed Queen and is probably top 4 fastest characters we know of got perception blitzed himself to an even greater degree by Kizaru, since Kizaru didn't just feed Luffy but carried him to a safer spot away from the marine soldiers. Saturn, Zoro and Sanji were completely incapable of seeing him do all of this, meaning Kizaru is by FAR the fastest character in the verse if he's trying and it's not close, literal leagues beyond everyone else including Luffy and every other Yonko.
So yes, that Luffy is below Kizaru, and the rest of the OG admirals at minimum. Make them fight again, but make Kizaru actually try to win and don't let him feed Luffy, and it's a wash. Luffy will not be able to land something like Bajrang Gun whereas every other move he has will not knock out Kizaru quick enough even if he just sits still and takes all of it. Luffy gases out before he can knock out Kizaru, then Kizaru kills him.
Kuzan should scale relative to Kizaru in general fighting ability since they're both OG admirals, and we know he also scales confidently above Garp and possibly equal to Prime Garp (and in some stats he scales above).
Akainu obviously should scale above Kizaru in everything except speed.
The new admirals vs Luffy is debatable, tho I won't argue for them. Just assuming they lose.
Yeah this debate should’ve been settled in marineford. Yonko>admirals. They ain’t relative, 3v1. Y’all have been taking L’s ever sense too. Greenbull getting Wi-Fi diffed by shanks, and now kizaru getting speed blitz by luffy while fighting the gorosei. 😂 y’all always have a cope ready though.
@@cartermarrero9431 they’re relative though…
The weakest admiral (Greenbull) getting affected by the strongest yonko’s (shanks) Haki doesn’t really show anything. Even then, Greenbull left wano because he didn’t want to fight all these yonko crews + his DF counter.
In kizaru vs luffy (the first fight since in all the others, kizaru is injured from his first fight with Luffy while Luffy fully healed), it took luffys entire time limit for Luffy to land one attack on kizaru. Kizaru was able to move shortly after taking the attack since he gave food to Luffy too.
There is so many statements from databooks or just from the anime that imply relativity between the two and even the narrative does.
You can call it cope but it’s just facts.
any yonko murders any admiral and its not even close
Agreed, I don’t know when this admiral delusion started but it’s really dumb. 😂
Ben beckman is the only first commander that you can even be generous with due to him being called shanks' rival, but thats still being very generous twords him
Ben Beckman only has one good statement though. We've never seen him even do anything that impressive. (if you don't count him getting trolled by Kizaru at Marineford.)
I don’t take Ben beckman seriously, imma need to see him in action
@@KingKosuu Exactly.
We need to see the red hairs in action
@@warlordz5779 Even without that if the strongest of them is getting absolutely trolled by Kizaru, they are not much stronger than twice normal Yonko commander level.
great video, pointed outa lot of things
however i do believe it takes around 2 admirals for 1 yonko
depends on the admiral and yonko particalarly but on average yes
Maybe fujitora and greenbull, but if we put kizaru and akainu currently against luffy for example, he loses. he already almost lost against kizaru alone
The difference between Yonko and Admiral is the same as the Difference between Zoro and Sanji.
Zoro and Yonko got the Aura and Narrrative but Sanji and Admirals got the more characterization.
I be honest, originally I was team Yonko with the feats and statements up to Wano. Then came egghead where Luffy ended up resorting to G5 against Kizaru which completely change my mindset for the OG admirals vs Yonko discussions.
Luffy was suppressed, didn't use ACoC, didn't use FS and was trolling
@ I be honest, even with Kizaru’s statement and the idea Luffy started and ended the fight with Acoc, even if we disregarded all of that, the fact it still force Luffy into having to use G5 and both characters can end up being fatigue just said to me that Admirals are clearly approaching or could be stronger.
Shanks solos the current admirals by himself low diff 😂 kaido solos the current admirals low diff. Big mom solos the current admirals mid to high diff. Whitebeard solos the current admirals low diff.
Whitebeard, kaido, shanks and big mom absolutely negative diffs akainu, kuzan and kuzaru.
Momonoski quite literally reduced Greenbull to a twig.
@@shaquillesommerville4060
Facts bro Kizaru=Luffy>Kaido
@@DrakoNotDracothere’s no proof for this. Even if this was true Kizaru was far more nerfed as he did not even have the option to hurt Luffy since he had to multitask attacking Vegapunk.
We have yonko and admirals than we FLEET ADMIRAL SAKAZUKI and there is only one HIM!!!! The cherished ONE!!!!
Lol, the Papazuki memes live on!
wakainu
@@GarpDChump the Red Dog is my golden boy
Yeeeaaaah the Ohara civilian killer lets goooooo
@@marcnawezi1877 fr 🐐 🐐
Luffy did win against kizaru at no point was luffy struggling with kizaru after he ate he only looked weak is because of gear 5 drawbacks and even then luffy was nerfed that whole arc🤨
Its not a Win when the Guy is not defeated
@@bensylver5113nobody except for rob lucci was decisively defeated in egghead. It was an escape arc, not a fight to the death arc. Luffy escaped therefore he succeeded. The Gorosei failed because they let vegapunk say his piece and everyone escaped. Though due to regeneration I doubt you could actually kill them no matter how overwhelmingly you overpower them. Kizaru begrudgingly did his duty and took an opportunity to give up the fight.
Kizaru was hesitant to kill vegapunk, not necessarily to hurt luffy or any of his allies. Luffy fended off Kizaru successfully, even though he fought at the disadvantage of protecting his crew from a guy that was waaaaay faster than him. He also simultaneously fought Saturn, whom was definitely not holding back.
How did this end up? Luffy simultaneously pizza diffed Kizaru and Saturn, resulting in Kizaru giving up and crying on the floor and Saturn calling for reinforcements. The Gorosei are more relative to yonko than the average admirals. Only fleet admiral level characters (current akainu, current Kuzan, garp, sengoku) are actually relative to yonkos. Kizaru, fujitora, and greenbull are not getting past luffy or Blackbeard in 1v1 death matches.
I’d personally put any Gorosei above Kizaru who is currently the strongest admiral. The younger yonko like luffy and Blackbeard are extreme diffing either way with Warcury. Fleet admiral akainu is probably relative to kaido.
@@crimsonfire6932 pizza is funny but useless. Luffy won ? You mean survived and escaped with tons of help?
Without joyboy Haki the show was ending.
@@bensylver5113Kizaru won, but only because of Gear 5’s time limit and him playing cat-and-mouse vs Luffy instead of fighting him head on.
I don’t think Kizaru was really trying his best to beat luffy imo, kinda like fujitora at the end of dressrossa
Bro ima need that Roger vs Whitebeard video. Ever since that stupid debate came out, I could never get behind it. It's pretty obvious to me that he used his Fruit against Roger at least once. Like we've literally seen a non environmental damaging Quake attack from him, and this is still contentious.
I think he probably did use his fruit but not quite at its full potential as quake fruit is mostly a dc based fruit so if he used it at it's full power it would endanger his crew and do massive collateral damage
I don’t really agree with big mom being THAT much of an idiot, especially in the law and kid vs big mom fight, she was quite literally just outwitted and slight overwhelmed by law and kids awakenings. It’s really just that law and kid are underrated & big mom is underrated that she suffers so much
She was outwitted because she was stupid. The time she got serious and starting trying to use haki it was too late. Keep in mind law just used his ultimate attack kid was mid using his ultimate attack big mom didn't heal at all and she was actually getting up. The only reason why she lost is because she got thrown off the island and common sense didn't tell her to just make another homie that could fly. She was not overwhelmed by kid and law she was overwhelmed by the terrain not being strong enough to withstand her pressure of getting up and kids pressure pushing her down with damned punk.
If u watch or read the fight again from where they forced her out she was getting up
Reminders that we NEVER saw her go all out vs Kidd and Law. She never used more than one year of her lifespan to power herself up more and never used ACoC vs both.
We also know that when somebody goes all out and lost, they would be exhausted and KO-ed (white pupils)! Which didn't happen to Big Mom as she was thrown off Onigashima and was still able to move and talk.
@@ceerodadon2566 WCI established how bummish she really is, then the shenanigans with Robin on Wano, getting clowned on, Kaido seeing her as pathetic, her super homie getting sliced by a Law without use of his df etc
😂😂u just said that she is stupid
Admirals = Yonkos
If anything only the OG Admirals can contend with Yonkos and vice versa whilst the new Yonkos and new Admirals are all mid aside from BB
I do see Yonkos having some slight edge as they are free, less conflicted and more likely to use CoC due to thr latter.
But I agree that the gap is small.
@@DrakoNotDraco BB is mid, what insane feats does he have? 😂😂 he literally lives off of EOS scaling
@@JT-km6thkeep downplaying him will be funny later
@@Deveshkha later not now
Admirals=Yonkos doesn’t exist because they are inferior to the Yonkos.
Emperor and admiral are the same tier in comparison its just not all emperors are equal and same with admirals
Hollup tho the intro was cold “Be there before I go there”🔥
Also I think Jimbei said in Fishman Island that the navy became stronger than ever after Akainu got the fleet admiral position.
That would imply that pre-timeskip Akainu/Aokiji/Kizaru trio < Ryokugyu/Fujitora/Kizaru trio
COOK
No it means post-time skip marines > pre-time skip marines
Even is Akainu is stronger, it seems that him and Aokiji is not that far off in power. Especially now, when Aokiji is more active than him while Akainu is busy pushing pencils and ordering people around as a Fleet Admiral.
@ the battleship scene with Garp, Kuzan, and Koby show the marines train everyday. Sakazuki is still training, he’s not in the field, but he’s still training.
@@mstr293do people forget they fought for TEN days… ppl be acting like sakazuki is a whole tier above kuzan. it takes him that long to beat another admiral and ppl will look you dead in your face and try to say “Sakazuki could beat prime whitebeard, shanks, roger” like their haki wouldn’t completely make his magma useless
Buggy's cut cut is so strong that he was cut from the video
Why is this so hard to understand for OP community:
Yonko > Admiral > 1 Yonko Commander.
admirals are underrated
Nah they’re way overrated it’s actually insane.
Ah I respect you for leaving Buggy out so the admirals wont get completely annhilated in his mere prescene I respect you for that🗿
Another thing about kaido is that I believe he wasn't really going all out, he actually never used his armament haki the entire fight against luffy, and he only used future sight ones when he was drunk just to show luffy he had it
In Luffy's Vivre Card it was basically stated that Gear 5 is equal to Kizaru
I prefer to debate in ratios when it comes to characters with similar power levels. If you simulated 100 battles between the Younko and Admirals, I'd say the Younko would win 60-40 splits except for Akainu, who would go 50-50 or 60-40 depending on the matchups.
Blackbeard in Marineford fought old Garp and old Sengoku at the same time and made Sengoku covered in bandages after the war, Sengoku who's at least admiral level too bc fleet admiral means that you need to graduate from admiral level. I take it he retired because Marineford was the last year when he could stay strong enough for the position, after the timeskip his hair is all white indicating that age to him
Old garp didnt even fight back then
@ThieuAnhDuong-we2zc I'd say that's debatable. Blackbeard VS Sengoku started, and later on we see Garp appear besides Sengoku. It's highly likely he fought him because he was injured quite a bit afterwards too
@@Salalazaihe didn’t appear. He intervened to save Sengoku from a burgess cheap shot and had been injured since luffy punched him.
Nah. Blackbeard is never confirmed to have fought Garp. He did fight Sengoku though and got the upper hand because Sengoku was trying to play defense and protect the headquarters, whereas Blackbeard was trying to destroy it.
The 3 topics the community go over consistently all have answers to them. With the Shanks/Mihawk one being the closest. The Yonkos are stronger than the admirals.
Oooof but before Shanks arrived Greenbull was very confident he could beat them all wasnt he ? Lets face it he isnt the brightest mind
Oh yeah and Benn Beckman is like implied to be this Rival or similar to Shanks thing and the fact they could even hold Kizaru at Gunpoint is a feat enough so if you wanted to talk about that battle it makes sense especially with the possibility that most of the Red Hairs might still be relative or above Luffy and that Kizaru was 2 years weaker.
That gun point thing wasn’t really a fear though since right after that Kizaru kept attacking
@@_General_Grievous__ Beckman note this however and he didn't try to attack and no one else was doing anything but Strawhat still escaped.
It doesn't mean that if He did shoot it would have done no damage or that Kizaru wouldn't have maybe died.
It's possible he's keeping him at Gunpoint because Shanks orders are to maintain the power taking out an Admiral wouldn't do that even if they would be replaced later on that would still be added to the news if one died.
So It is fair to bring up becase the only way it wouldn't be Fair is if Kizaru moved right after no putting his hands up or stopping because then it would be obvious Benn was never a threat it would be like Ussop using his Slingshot but the fact that he actually seemed to be fearful and respectful enough to put his hands up shows a narrative point in the portrayal.
That literally did nothing to stop Sakazuki from using sacred jewel. The admirals were ready to keep fighting
Anyone besides shanks in red hair pirates is getting dog walked by luffy if you think otherwise you're just delusional heck even Zoro is probably enough to give Beckman a run for his money
@@RimuruTempest-wl1ru NAHHH! The Portrayal too high.
Honestly I think Kuzan, Akainu, prime garp and sengoku were/are yonko level or somewhat above low tier yonkos. I also think some admirals are relatively near that yonko status like kizaru who was going to go to wano and maybe green bull.
Yes do the whitebeard vs roger vid, IMO whitebeard is stronger as a whole but roger has better haki.
we need to use Admiral and Fleet Admiral level imo, Yonko tier was always kinda sus with Buggy
Buggy's like that.
That's why Mihawk is in that group. The WSS is technically the true muscle in Cross Guild.
@@mstr293 theres also early 2 billion Teach being a Yonko, Luffy being declared an "emperor" at just 1.5 billion.
Marine ranks are based on strength, Yonko tite is just based on your territories and influence.
If Greenbull was a pirate on some jungle island with a whole ass crew, hed probably be a Yonko too
isn’t the reason Whitebeard didn’t/wouldn’t use his Quake fruit versus Roger because every scuffle they’ve had being a crew battle? Whitebeard can’t afford to go all out with his Quakes without risking damaging the surrounding area, the treasure/spoils they fight for, and his crew mates also on the island. Sure their haki clashes were grandiose and shook the island in the anime, but the Quakes would’ve definitely sunk everyone including WB himself if he went all out. That’s why someone who doesn’t know any better with the fruit will cause way more damage than good.
Now put them in an isolated 1v1 scenario where none of his family and terrain is in danger, I think WB would use his fruit versus Roger and overtake him proving he’s the strongest. basically i’m saying WB tied with Roger while nerfed (Roger was sick/nerfed yea sure) but that’s just how I interpret it. WB > Roger but it just couldn’t be shown to us, we get roger bowing to WB pleading for Oden instead which says enough imo.
I think Oda made Blackbeard super satisfying to me. The man fully admits that rather than decrease damage his Darkness Devil Fruit actually makes it worst. BUT the fact he has one of the most useful auxillery abilities in being able to steal devil fruits and build a crew of devil fruit users and is for a non-SH character consistently talked up for just his toughness and unusual body is cool. It makes him feel like a bad guy because unlike Big Mom or Kaido our man Blackbeard is more than willing to let his crew step in if he is struggling making him feel more despicable and cowardly than any other yonko at the same time the man is ambitious, ruthless and paitent showing a mind more meticulous than his outwardly Luffy level dumb persona gives off.
8:41 Then why did he go there in the first place you are contradicting yourself, even without Shanks he was cooked and only decided to run when Shanks came. If Shank didn´t go he would have gotten jumped and he would have lost.
He went there to capture luffy because he knew he was healing, Shanks being there meant he was cooked since having two yonko crews and other people there would cause a lot of trouble. It’s clear that greenbull thought he’d get the drop on everyone if they were healing
@@KingKosuuno greenbull is just a coward who was afraid of kaido and he wanted to attack them when they were all injuries
@@karime3295 brodie is really blaming Greenbull for being afraid of Kaido of all people. Like bro, who wouldn't be scared of Kaido 😭
I always love it when ppl say Whitebeard snuck up on Akainu. the dying old geezer literally wobbled to him... even npc marines saw him coming. if the great Sakazuki couldnt even dodge that, he's only that level.
No wonder he sweated buckets when he saw Shanks at the end of his punch. He's just not him
Yonko (and Yonko adjacent) = admirals (and admiral adjacent)
Ryokugyu < BB
Fujitora = BM
Kizaru = Luffy
Aokiji < Kaido
Akainu/Garp/Sengoku = Shanks/Mihawk/Roger
WB/Shiki/Rocks> all
You underestimate Ben beckmen bro he can def hang with admirals but that’s it
Bro said white beard was stronger than ROGER?!?? Did bro read the story??
Remember when Oda said Ban Beckman hangs with Shanks?
The yonko and admirals are equal, at certain given points in the series the yonko can have a slight lead and the admirals can have a slight lead. I would say that if we put every yonko against every admiral, the admirals would win.
KIZARU AND KOBY VS KAIDO MAKE IT HAPPEN ODA
Isn't stated that Ben Beckman is very close to Shanks in strength? And Zoro isn't many power ups away form yonko level. Saying that no commanders could beat and admiral just isn't true. It's at very least close.
It has to be a close battle, or else one side would've gotten rid of the other long ago.
luffy beats every admiral an ex admiral 😂 get em pass a bajarang gun first😂
All 3 og admirals beats luffy kizaru had the chance to kill luffy but gave that bum some food so he can try and actually save Vega punk which he still failed……
@@goatboy1827your slow Luffy beats every admiral including akainu . 😂😂😂them boys had problems with the whiteboard pirates 😅😅 who were weak fr . They couldnt even beat old wb . Luffy is much stronger then marineford whiteboard . In fact Luffy is on par with prime whiteboard which none of the admirals arent
And still, Oda hints in SBS, that Borsalino was FINE after taking a ACOC G5 attack, and decided to help Luffy by feeding him when he was out of stamina. He could simply decide to finish Luffy, but choosed to help him instead.
Original Admirals > Luffy.
@@kfc-employee1380luffy>>>>>pizaru
@kfc-employee1380 oda said someone with light speed and kizaru still got put to sleep after the second acoc attack when he got flattened with Saturn . Kizaru is nowhere near Luffy the fact he barely manage to stay up after 1 acoc is still embarrassing for an admiral. Tanking one acoc is expected of them
This is how i rank admirals and yonko. Gb and fuji loosing to all other admirals and yonko (excluding buggy). Bm loosing to other emperors and og admirals. Aokiji and kizaru loosing to akainu and the remaining emperors. Then from here everyone is even that the fight can go either way. From the weakest admiral to strongest admiral/yonko can be a high/extreme dif but other than that every matches is extreme diff.
Btw big mom and kaido didnt got killed they just got pushed down because they had crazy durability
In defense to the Yonko:
In terms of power, Mihawk should be the stand-in for Buggy as the latter is only "Yonko" by title.
Despite sustaining lethal injuries, sickbeard still had energy to fight BB and his crew. Akainu was incapacitated for a while after WB's last attack on him. If he didn't fall off the rocks, do you think WB doesn't have the power to finish him off while he's down?
Big Mom was NEVER seen going all out, EVER! She's nearing her 70's, the critical age where even stronger people like Garp and WB became weaker or at least lost a lot of stamina. She NEVER used ACoC and Ryou, more than one year of her lifespan vs Law and Kidd AND was only lost because thrown off Onigashima. When enemies go all out and lost, they are either exhausted or get KOed, with the white eyes. This never happened permanently with Big Mom. She was conscious when she fell and had the energy to finish both Law and Kidd if she didn't fall.
Luffy only lost due to his time limit in Gear 5. Luffy NEVER SUSTAINED ANY REAL DAMAGE VS KIZARU WHILE KIZARU GOT ONE-SHOT 3X. Even if Kizaru was holding back, so did Luffy! He was never seen using ACoC vs the admiral, in which the admiral can't use either. No Ryou/internal destruction, no sky splits, no attacks that comes close to his Island-busting Bajarang Gun. Without the time limit, Luffy did more damage to Kizaru than Kizaru did to him. Unlike Garp who doesn't want to hurt Luffy during MF, Kizaru doesn't want to hurt Vegapunk! He has no reason to not try to hurt Luffy himself.
Stand proud, you can cook
Kaido NEVER went all out vs Gear 4 + ACoC Luffy as Luffy was already panting and one hit away from death while Kaido still has enough energy to fight Gear 5 despite wear-and-tear from fighting Luffy multiple times with many breaks and plot-related recoveries and resurrection, stalling and chip damaged from a dozen YC1 characters, and help from Guernica, Luffy would've still lost. Gear 5 is the only enemy Kaido is forced to use the Death Destroyer and Flaming Bagua.
Shanks don't need any defense.
Blackbeard idk yet but he'll surely be the most powerful in the final war.
I don't even hate the admirals. While I think that Yonko are above them, they are very close in power. Like high-extreme diff close in power.
@@tmtsps12I'm not done. Read the rest! 😉
@@mstr293 WW keep spreading facts
Idk Kizaru seemed pretty outclassed by luffy when he got serious against him and Saturn
He was out off it after killing vegapunk
He was mentally nerfed, Kizaru isn’t like Akainu, he was focusing most of his attention on killing Vegapunk. If he focused his attention on Luffy, he definitely would’ve did better in my opinion
If the yonkos are stronger then you would need atleast 2 admirals to win considering the yonkos have insanely strong crews backing them.
Logically speaking an admiral agenda does not exist. If they’re truly above yonkos there wouldn’t be a purpose for the warlords or pacifistas/ seraphims. Besides that point their not even conquerers except for maybe akainu. And also the world military draft where the 2 new admirals came from proves this coz how would a person that’s above yonko level just be chilling in some random country till the navy notices them it doesn’t make sense
lol correct because the answer is Yonkos are stronger
I think ur dismissing one point and that’s the pure sise of the fleets marineford showed that their number are really vast
The US has over 12,000 nukes. They are still going to want more. Of everything; be it funding, troops, aircraft, drones, etc. The US is not wanting more power/resources because there is a bigger threat than themselves but to establish their military might, which can be imposed on the world.
Just because a government is trying to increase their power does not mean they are doing it out of necessity.
So you just expect one admiral to take on an entire crew and their captain?
@DAEDAEANT if big mom, kaido, shanks and bb were together and had an army with vice admirals no one would stand a chance against them
5:16
Gear 4 was not contesting with kaido lmao, bro got bodied immediately after, rested then got bodied again
The Marco down play was crazy
If he was light work the admirals would have slapped him away
He Regen everything until no stamina . Marco is a pain in the ass for everyone
In terms of going up against high-to-top tier characters, Marco KINDA is light work, and the admirals sort of DID slap him away. Despite being the right hand man of the evidently strongest man in the world, Marco, I'd say personally, is on the weaker spectrum of the right hand men of emperor crews.
The truth is the admirals kicking they ass. Haven’t even started yet
Akainu was saved when he was incapacitated from Sickbeard's final attack on him due to him falling with the rocks. Sickbeard also had the energy to fight BB and his crew later. If he didn't fall down, WB would've incapacitated Akainu even more.
Kizaru NEVER gave Luffy any real damage that KOed him. Luffy was literally eating his attacks in Gear 5. He only lost due to his time limit as Kizaru kept playing cat-and-mouse with him. Luffy can't even use ACoC (Kizaru can't even use it), can't split the skies and Luffy doesn't need to use any attacks close in power to the Bajarang Gun as White Star Gun is more closer to his attack on Kaido in chapter 1042. Without the time limit and he fought Luffy head-on I doubt Kizaru stands a chance but to flee.
@@mstr293 1. Whitebeard only even landed that when he sneaked akainu. Btw, whitebeard was enraged while akainu still had to hold back. On top of this, saying that akainu was saved because whitebeard just could have kept on attacking him if he didn’t fall in is a pure assumption. Who knows what would have happened in akainu didn’t fall in the ravine? He may have got up in time of whitebeard getting to him just like he did before. You can’t say akainu couldn’t get up or was knocked out since him being knocked out would mean he’d fall into the water in the ravine and die, and him not being able to stand up isn’t provable. This isn’t even the akainu people use to scale too.
2. Saying “Luffy only lost due to time limit” doesn’t make sense. He still lost. Kizaru had several nerfs on him and Luffy in context was going all out, and he pretty much lost. Time limit or not, he lost, it’s that simple.
easily lmao. admiral > yonko
@@jikey1731.saying akainu had to hold back…it’s a dumb take to be honest especially when the entire time akainu fought whitebeard he kept saying he was gonna end him…
@@jikey1732.luffy didn’t lose to kizaru 💀gear 5s power is what taxed luffy,you sitting there and acting like kizaru knocked luffy tf out when all that happened was luffy sent your boy flying and then he gassed out after that’s it 😂.
Yeah, we want Whitebeard VS Roger , both in their prime 👍🔥💪
The og admirals are on pair with yonkos, with Kuzan and Akainu being even stronger than many of them (especially Akainu)
Garp vs Kuzan was just a Mike Tyson fight versus Jake Paul in one piece if you’re being honest garp went out there with sacrificial intentions let’s be honest
Big Mom was held back by the story. In Whole Cake she was unstoppable, her entire crew couldn't deal with her, and Luffy and the gang had no chance of victory in a straight fight (even as a team). In Wano, Kaido had to be the primary antagonist, so she was forced to take a back seat and become a secondary antagonist. It's also worth noting that Kid and Law only won by ring out, as she clearly had more fight left in her. Big Mom is definitely the weakest Yonko, but a lot of people underestimate her.
I agree, I think her personality, IQ and plot really hold her back.
How I see it Admirals are really powerful and if they really wanted to they can destroy islands and cost madness wherever they go but they are hired by the world government so they technically like really powerful security guards in away and they mainly put Yonkos in check so they don’t destroy the world because yonkos are just overwhelmed powerful if they out and a loose
One major issue I have in the yonko vs admiral debate is “ohhhh if the admirals were stronger, why would they need pacifista’s and warlord” the world governments goal is ruling the entire planet. The warlords are meant to counterbalance the fact that things can happen anywhere in the world and an admiral might not be there. The counterpoint of then why did they need them to fight just oldbeard? They’re on the payroll why not tell them to show up, save some of the admirals strength so no one gets injured, and they needed mihawk to keep vista busy for a while.
if a single admiral is on average stronger than a single yonko, why not send off two to take care of the yonko? rinse and repeat and all the yonko are beat. you can easily defend home as you still have the fleet admiral and the other admiral, and if they recognise the threat and band together after the fact, its 3 yonko vs 3 admirals +fleet admiral and the marines have significantly more and there are vice admirals.
@@ansonchan8537 One piece is extremely political, sending off admirals to take out a yonko and their crew isn’t smart. It wastes resources and time, also adding onto the fact that the Yonko have an advantage especially if they were to fight in their territory. It’s like saying, if China has a larger military force and the same grade weapons as the US, why doesn’t China just launch a full attack to take control? There’s still little bits and pieces that could make that kind of strategy completely fall apart. Plus, plot plays a huge part of it
@@cameronstevens2053 first i'd like to address your final point, yes plot plays a part in why things dont happen, but plots tend to make sense, hence, the reason why they dont simply send two admirals off tends to not be that its not fun for the story, but rather they simply cant.
Secondly, time and resources. in war most resources are spent moving and keeping solders alive as well as weapons and ammunition. with admirals, this problem is almost nonexistant. Kizaru, who travels at the speed of light, greenbull, who flew into wano, an incridibly difficult to invade island, Fujitora- flying battleship/rock/whatever. time and resources would scarecly be an issue.
Third, territorial advantage. whilst yes the emperors have their fleet and whatever buildings they have, would this be enough to stop 2 people stronger than yonko from killing one yonko? lets take oden for an example, he and his retainers managed to severely injure kaido. whilst kaido was weaker than he is today, he still had the territorial advantage and a massive crew and was ready for battle. surely 2 admirals could jump current kaido, ambush him on one of his suicide attempts. the problem is lesser with big mom, the rest of her crew is vastly weaker than her, should a single admiral be stronger than big mom, two would be stronger than her entire country.
Your simile is not accurate. its more of if if instead of nukes we still only had battleships and the US was fighting off 4 smaller countries. the US has 4 battleships and a massive amount of weaker ships, whilst each smaller country only has 1 and a swarm of weaker ships. sending off 2 battleships to sink the 1 battleship of each smaller country is feasable and makes them a much easier target for the massive fleet of smaller ships later on.
I think we just need to stop saying “… level” and instead focus on individuals, Akainu beats most Yonko’s but Fujitora loses to most Yonko’s, Primebeard beats most admirals but Bigmom loses to most admirals for example, it’s also been pretty clear from the start that Greenbull and Fujitora are naturally weak for admirals since they were both recruited bc 2 admirals just disappeared with Akainu being promoted and Aokiji leaving the marines, id even go as far to say that I think Akainu or Aokiji (maybe Kizaru but less likely) could beat Fujitora and Greenbull at once
@@joeygamingnl2724 agreed
Beckman: what about me?
12:48 I’m so sick of people saying the admirals beat them. Akainu got no diff’d by the weakest WB ever and Kuzan wasn’t mentally nerfed he just got slammed until Garp was stabbed
i feel as though big mom is smarter than most people give her credit, at least smarter than kaido and luffy, however she suffers from bouts of irrationality, like hercules but constantly rather than the one time bout of madness
some yonko beat some admirals, and some admirals beat some yonko
overall yonko > admirals, but the seperation is kinda useless...
overall, Admirals>yonkos
@@mr.shorty7310fuck no bro you are actually insane for saying that
@@mr.shorty7310😂😂😂😂😂
Greenbull is holding the Admirals back lol.
@@joe-k1tno he isn't
Garp was also mentally nerfed if you wanna get straight to it that’s not an excuse for kuzan bro
Tbh imo a mental nerf doesn't mean much
Big mom is majorly nerfed by layers upon layers if mental illness, I dont think she's dumb, it's just that going straight from eating everyone she ever loved to being groomed, to just nonstop inflicting her derranged perception of what it means to have a loving relationship on the world around her with no one with both the power or desire to stop her... thats a pretty unstable concoction to be cooking up when it comes to someones brain chemistry. She can be naive and childish at times but given how ruthless and on point she is at others I think this is a trauma response and not an indication of her actual IQ, hence why she's so inconsistent. Now all the Yonko are messed up in the head in there own special way and need a LOT of therapy... with White Beard being the exeption and just needing a perfectly normal amount of therapy. Big Mom needs more damn therapy than the rest of the Yonko combined.
Dude you're pumping content out!! don't get my wrong I'm happy, but make sure to take some time to rest 😊 Amazing video as always, also a tip, hashtags on youtube don't work, dont put time into it if you have a tight schedule
Luffy vs. Kizaru round 1: Stalemate
Luffy vs Kizaru (plus Saturn) round 2: Pancake frisbees.
Dude Ben Beckman really is him bro, He’s at least at Raleigh’s level
Need that Roger vs WB
Akainu vs WB was not close, every other admiral was absolutely styling on him before WB snuck Papazuki.
He then proceeds to punch off half his face and put a hole in his stomach, while not even sustaining scars by the vengeful Yonko.
Akainu was holding back not to destroy the island (we see what he's capable of doing to an island in PUNK HAZARD) and WB was sick, injured and old.
The scrap between theme was mid diff in Akainu's favor and I believe that had they fought off the island and WB wasn't sick it'd be the same.
A younger WB might be able to defeat the now Fleet Admiral but it'd be very close no matter who wins.
@kingkosuu Roger claps primebeard everyday.
1)Kaido stated that only Roger made the seas “bow down”; with haki alone at that
2) young Kaido stated that Roger was the only person he did not want to fight and he said this in front of primebeard’s face
3)Roger was the “top pirate” for over a decade(as stated by Sengoku) before getting the one piece and being named pirate king(god valley was 38 years ago - Roger stopped being a pirate/found the one piece 23 years ago = 15 years of Roger’s era/ Roger as the top guy
4) Shiki came and stated that it was whitebeard’s “era” ONLY after Roger was gone
5) the story is literally set up for the people in the “strawhat line” to be the strongest of their eras: joyboy during the void century; Roger during the golden age; shanks during the previous/current era; and Luffy for the “new age”
6) you don’t make a story about a legendary man being so great that the mc wants to chase that legacy but that person was actually second best. That’s like deku chasing endeavor instead of all might or Naruto chasing an uchiha instead of the hokage
7) “Gold Roger was the man that had it all” not all but the strength to beat Whitebeard
8) Luffy sees being pirate king as being the freest man in the world and when he said that Rayleigh was reminded of Roger. And being the freest man as a pirate meant you could go anywhere and do anything and no one could stop you, sooooo…….
And just an extra point: Garp compared capturing old Rayleigh to fighting old Whitebeard during the paramount war, which would mean Roger is WAY above Whitebeard; because Whitebeard was still active and had a whole crew and affiliated crews but Rayleigh was retired and by himself.
I will say that there’s a lot more variance when it comes to the Yonkou power levels. Even the weakest Admirals like Greenbull are still capable of putting up a good fight compared to Sakazuki. But the gap between Buggy and Kaido, for example, is much wider than any gap within the admirals
Tbf, Buggy is only a "Yonko" by title. He has Mihawk for a reason and he's the real muscle in the Cross Guild fleet.
well thats bcos admirals are selected purely based on strength only. They need the strongest in the verse to represent the strongest force in the world. Thats not the case for yonkos. its influence
@@mr.shorty7310No Yonkos have the totality of strength & influence.
@@FireAngelChrisexplain buggy
To keep it simple the Admirals are way closer to “Yonko lvl”(Fan made construct) in terms of strength than “Commander lvl”(Fan made construct). Akainu VS WB & the entire WB pirates with Crocodile & Ivankov in Marineford without being defeated. Fujitora never got touched physically in dressrosa; blocking all attacks in every interaction VS characters. GreenBull VS a weakened King & Queen; faced Yamato & the remnants of the Scabbers(Inu & Neko) then later defeated & captured Weevil. Lastly Kizaru who countered; speed blitz & possibly one shot post wano gear 4 Luffy; then fought & outperformed 1 round of gear 5 while mentally conflicted. Barely injured by the White Star Gun caused he got up after & helped Luffy. And we know Akainu now is definitively stronger than Kizaru. Everything else use to counter this is just plot & misinterpretations of their characters & the situation. RUclips Allfather Silver; he called it(Fun Fact:Did you know that every definitive strongest Admiral(Fleet Admiral candidates at least) has a relationship/dynamic with every def. Strongest/own the era pirate(Not Pirate King or Yonko)? Kong-Xebec; Garp-Roger; SenGoku-WB; Akainu-Luffy; & Aokiji-BB. There’s a reason why Oda has introduced the concept of the world’s strongest; Mihawk & WB before the Yonko. Throughout the series it’s constantly been proven that the term Yonko itself doesn’t translate to Top 4 strongest pirates/characters in the show; Yonko & Pirate King aren’t strength based titles. If you compare that for the Marines; the highest common denominator to increase in rank is tied to your strength. Garp; asked to become an Admiral several times cause of his strength but turned it down; the Gorosei made Aokiji & Akainu fought for Fleet Admiral; & combined that with Nico Robin’s statement; the Admirals are the strongest in the Marines. The way we use “Yonko lvl” in the community really should be Fleet Admiral lvl; since Garp & Roger almost killed each other multiple times while SenGoku was fighting WB; we need to fix this as a community.
He didn't "one-shot" Gear 4 Luffy. One shot would be putting Luffy out in commission like what Kaido or Shanks did. But Luffy still had the energy to go Gear 5. Also, Luffy only lost due to his time limit and never got any real lethal damage from Kizaru.
Without the time limit, Luffh was eating his attacks and never needed a barrage of attacks to put him down. All three attacks were one-shots.
One of them is the pizza thing with Saturn where he has no reason to "nerf" himself as Vegapunk was already down.
Luffy ran from kizaru after failing to protect vegapunk
Admirals and Yonko just represent different moralities and ideals. Your faction does not represent your actual power. As of Elbaph Blackbeard is #1 in the verse. If Kuzan would have ran into any other crew except Shanks or Blackbeard he would have no diffed.
Ty wb > roger🙌🏾
whether luffy or kizaru win it would be high diff battle meaning both of them should go all out for that
Maybe not anymore it might be like High-Mid Diff for Luffy right now unless Kizaru has more abilities since last time he clapped him into a Pancake.
How does Luffy beat Kizaru? His attacks can’t put Kizaru down before G5 ends. Kizaru wins.
Based on the fight, Kizaru has the advantage in speed and stamina while Luffy showed better attack potency and durability. People keep forgetting that Luffy only "lost" due to his time limit in Gear 5 and not from any real damage from Kizaru.
@@mstr293 yea so? He still loses in a 1v1. It’s implied G5 Luffy did minimal damage on Kizaru, he didn’t even have any scratches or bandages leaving Egghead. With stamina we can have a different convo but as of now, Kizaru was trying to help Luffy on Egghead, Kizaru could’ve killed him.
@@JT-km6thliffybonky lost beacause he went in g5 right away, he also didn't restart his heart
Garp was defo not going all out because if he was he would of attacked the arm of pizaro instead of relying on koby to do it. How do we know this he blitzs past aokiji and everyone and smashed the head. He could of done the exact same thing with pizaros arm instead of his head and they could of all escaped. Not to mention the last panel of garp being impaled on the ground its all the blackbeard pirates that were there surrounding him so he highly likely got jumped
Shanks vs. Mihawk and Zoro vs. Sanji are obvious if you have and look at the right information. The Admirals vs. Yonko is more complex because they vary in strength to a certain degree.
Zoro vs sanji shouldn't even be a debate
@@RimuruTempest-wl1ru It's the same for Shanks vs. Mihawk, Zoro's dream would be null and void if Shanks was stronger. And also Roger vs. Whitebeard.
13:03 saying they got sonned is crazy
Average Yonko (Kaido, Big Mom) seems beyond average admiral (Issho, Aramaki). *However*, veteran admiral (Kizaru) are probably quite close or even equal, and then you have Marine Prodigy (Sakazuki, Kuzan, Garp, maybe Sengoku) who may very well be between average Yonko and Pirate King.
But it's not clear really. I still have typical Yonko beyond typical admiral because then the Warlords/Seraphim make no sense.
Marineford probably doesn't factor in much, though, since peak Whitebeard and Roger are still heavily implied to be a level beyond Sakazuki even now with his 5 billion Cross Guild bounty. My guess is that the Marines treated Sickbeard as if he was still Peakbeard, who would've been beyond any of them, including Garp.
Kuzan did not beat garp.He gave himself up to save koby.Garp smacked him around and wasn’t trying to kill Kuzan either.
akainu is a headadmiral not a admiral. kuzan is no longer a admiral. and even kizaru might quit. but all of them are losing to every yonko while still having admiral status
Kid and law beat Big mom. Its matter of devil fruit ability.Doffy was beaten by Luffy but in whole cake Luffy was struggling with cracker.Same Doffy who restricted diamond Jozu.If we look at 1st commander ,non of them has been beaten by admiral or yonko when they are in full strength.Green bull was lucky he found queen and king in that state.It is sad because King wasn't even bad matchup for greenbull .He could fly ,use fire and his slashes which gave Zoro some trouble even Kaido slash didn't do anything to Zoro. I am not saying 1st commander can't be beaten but beating someone like King and Marco will drain even admiral.
i would count kizaru slightly above luffy, i mean he could have killed luffy instead of giving him food
same but only curent luffy .
Blitzing snakeman isn’t a feat for Kizaru it’s a feat for Luffy
He reacted to faster than light acceleration FROM A LONG DISTANCE WITHOUT FS OR REGULAR OBSERVATION
And inflated gears slow Luffy down
Sure his combat speed is crazy but his reaction is slower
And for the Kaido argument Luffy was using acoc, and we saw how big of an amp acoc was to Luffy(Kaido confirmed you can stack ryuo on acoc by saying Luffy did it in g5 at some point), so even if Kizaru wasn’t holding back Luffy using acoc could still win(he can stack ryuo on top)
Ps I think the old gen people could have beaten their Admiral counterparts
“Akainu was holding back” why would he hit Whitebeard who he’s trying to kill any weaker than his strongest? The only stat he held back was dc because they didn’t want to destroy Marineford
And old Whitebeard was able to down Akainu for a bit and go on to take MUCH MORE(he had a literal HEART ATTACK prior) without using acoc (obv for plot reasons) so he was the one that was nerfed(crocodile confirmed it too and imagine getting speedblitzed by base SQUARD)
And old Garp , though less impressive one shotted Sanjuan wolf with NO HAKI and blitzed Kuzan(who would actually be nerfed because he was stated to be soft)
But if Garp hadn’t taken Shiryu’s stab he would give Kuzan a good fight that could go either way
Your takes aren't wrong but there are some outrageous claims made when talking about characters without enough screen time to scale. Like Ben beckmen. He is surely going to be low yonko level unless he is a complete fraud so there is something to be said for him taking on some of these admirals (maybe not the top 2). When I say low yonko I mean characters like prime Zoro in the future, prime Raleigh, Hawkeye, Sengoku, etc
Prime Whitebeard Insane Diffs Prime Sengoku (same result if they’re in their old age)
Shanks Low Diffs Akainu
Kaidou Low Diffs Kuzan
Prime Big Mom Mid Diffs Kizaru (though I would say Kizaru Extreme Diffs Old Big Mom)
Blackbeard Extreme Diffs Fujitora
Luffy High Diffs Ryokugyu
Yonko definitely murk the Admirals
Not the Whitebeard cope LoL Roger >>>
6:45 mihawk fans sure don't respect him, as a shanks fan i say they are relative with shanks taking the edge because of the conqueror feats we seen alone
If his haki control was better he’d have a black blade
GrandLineReview said he thinks Big Mom still is in the mental state of her child self and I never thought about that but it explains her lower intelligence
This debate was always interesting to me, since it really only exists "outside" the story. One Piece itself has always been extremely clear about the answer. Yonko are stronger - no questions asked. There is not a single point in the story where an Admiral and a Yonko fight and the admiral comes out even in "ok shape", nor managing to stall the Yonko. They always without a shadow of a doubt lose.
Old Whitebeard, despite being mid-heart attacks practically kills the strongest admiral with Two attacks.(This is the guy who then has a 10 day fight with another Admiral.) None of the Admirals have the capacity to kill Kaidou during his capture.(which kinda adds up since we know Kaidou can swim in magma and be just fine for a prolonged time period.) Greenbull actually gets wifi haki diffed and surrenders on the spot. Kizaru gets One shot twice, and is literally a side-character who gets thrown out of a fight he isn't strong enough to be in.(People forget that luffy had to be heavily nerfed by going through the barrier twice, which he himself says nearly killed him for the first round to be even a fight.)
Hell, the most damning thing to me isn't even those honestly, but the story treats them weak enough that one of the Admirals.. one basically Dead-Even with Akainu becomes a Henchman for Blackbeard. BB just casually has an admiral working for him, and this isn't going to have any effects on the final arc. Think about that.
But yeah it's interesting since the "debate" - as I said only exists outside of the verse. Both actual fights and narrative portrayal have always made it crystal clear that Admiral have absolutely not a snowballs chance in hell with a Solo fight against a Yonko. Even at the intrudction of the concept it took the Warlords, Navy and the World Goverment to just equal the Yonkos as a wide-reaching power.
1. It really depends. Oda constantly makes them relative. Whenever he talks about being 'strongest' he mentions both Admirals and Emperors. Chinjao speech, and Oda's own words about becoming strongest, means having to beat BOTH Admirals and Emperors (When he talked about Bullet character in Stampede Volume)
2. Kizaru vs WB. Borsalino Injured Newgate while Edward couldn't even injure him. Also, basically every Admiral encounter at Marineford was in favor of them against WB. Borsalino left wound, Akainu despite being caught off-guard, overall did more damage to WB than, he recieved. Only Kuzan didn't had a clean hit BUT would've if Jozu wasn't there to stop him.
3. Practically kills? Doubt it. Sakazuki was just out of battlefield for a moment. He was bleeding? So was Kaido after fighting Yamato. What matter is that Akainu literally got up and showed to not feel any damage afterwards, and clashed with all Division Commanders (Minus Jozu) and managed to get through them.
Sakazuki's magma by vaporizing steel proves his Magma > Regular one.
Aramaki left because he was overwhelmed. He isn't throwing hands with One Emperor to just get to another one. He would be badly Injured (Though I do think that Shanks would win that 1v1), so chasing SPECIFICALLY a exhausted Emperor would be even bigger problem. People close eye on the fact that Aramaki KNEW it was Shanks haki which either means he faced him or felt him with observation through Island. He also said he isn't gonna fight him YET.
Kizaru was hinted by Oda to be the one who fed Luffy. He could easily finish down Luffy, but decided to perception blitz everyone and just get him food and go back to acting he is 'wounded'. Meaning that After G5 ACOC attack he was fine. Saying that Luffy was nerfed because he was KICKED by Kizaru through barrier but ignoring that Borsalino was mentally nerfed WHICH by logic nerfs someone's Haki as it is connected to WILL of person, is also another example of closing eye on something.
4. The story also nearly made Borsalino go handle the Big Mom/Kaido situation and Sakazuki his superior didn't even corrected him.
Kuzan also is in BB's crew for his own reasons which was the one of main things that made him to join when Teach mentioned that everyone is there for their own things. Teach himself wasn't even confident in facing him. And being under someone isnt really argument. There are examples of groups/organizations in One Piece, where character works under someone and is STRONGER than the leader.
Even hierarchy wise in BB's crew, Shiryu despite being weaker was choosed by Oda to be right-hand man.
5. Oda gave Admirals bounty of 3b which is close to Emperors overall. Sure, Law and Kid also have it. But they beated Emperor just like Luffy. Bounty scaling is odd, but I bring that up as more of 'symbolism' here. Admirals all have 3b, which makes them same wanted as Emperors (Luffy, Blackbeard's old bounty when be was Emperor) and slayers of emperor.
And add to that Akainu being worth 5b, which is 3rd highest bounty in series, which puts him in range of Pirate King and the man that was one of two rivals of pirate king bounty wise.
@@kfc-employee1380
1.
Oda has never made them relative in his life. The Admirals are a Milestone. They're obvioulsy important - but from the very introduction of the Yonko Oda made it Crystal clear that these forces weren't equal. The World government, the Navy and the Warlords only together were an Equal - To the Yonko. The warlords were a Required Piece - to do so. If the Admirals were relative to the Yonko this wouldn't be the case, as the Yonko don't fight together and you could easily take them out one by one.(As all three admirals are indeed on one side of the conflict.)
2. This is a complete meme tier argument and you lost a lot of credibility just by making it. WB was dying - and Borsanilo was running away - for his life. What, you wanna make the argument that Kizaru(who got one shot by a fresh Yonko multiple times, and then was just thrown out of the fight with someone stronger, by the same fresh Yonko.) is so much stronger than Akainu that he could beat him without ever getting touched ? Akainu is the strongest Admiral. Even by Marineford. That is literally why he's the Fleet Admiral - Kizaru was never even considered for the position. Kizaru played hit and run - and whitebeard was not moving around to dodge anything during the entire arc. What Kizaru did to him was a paper cut to the damage he had taken over the arc.
3. "Curse you whitebeard...!!!" - Falls down a ravine and is literally physically paralyzed to the point he can't stop himself from slowly sliding down. He grabs a ledge and climbs onto it at the Last moment to prevent his death. If he falls into the water, he is dead and currently out of the story. The cope here is only making you look worse - Nobody of a sane mind would Ever even propose that Akainu was just "uhm, slightly hurt" - no he literally was done. He vomits blood and literally can't move for a prolonged time period.
Green Bull was forced to transform back - out of his logia form and was in legit pain from Shanks ranged haki. That's not in any question, it happens on screen and panel, and you can see the pain on his face. He himself said he wouldn't have gone to Wano if Kaidou was still around as well - he just cannot fight any Yonko. You'll have to accept that.
Kizaru feeding luffy is completely irrelevant. It doesn't make him be in fighting shape, so it remains a complete headcanon. You could still grab a plate of food even with a broken leg and a thousand bruises, it'd just suck. Especially irrelevant because he can make light clones and doesn't even have to move with his physical body to do it lmao.
4. And Luffy said he'd beat Big Mom before he legit had the ability to damage her or even endure a single attack from her. The story didn't do that - Luffy didn't even end up beating her. He just Said it. Same with Kizaru. Kizaru just Said he would. That doesn't mean he could. Why do you think the World Government considered making Kaidou angry a serious threat and causality they'll have to take, if Kizaru can just beat him ? It's inconsistent with the straight-up plot of OP. Also Kaidou beats G5 multiple times despite having fought for days, and Kizaru is literally collateral damage during Luffies fight with his actual opponent. Way to take what a character says as gospel lol.
5. Buggy has a bounty higher than any admiral right now. Are you entirely sure we're trying to go into the "Bounty means power" situation ?
@@crazagres1839
1. If Oda wouldn't care about them and just set them as milestone, whenever a term of being strongest/be pirate king, would be brought, he wouldn't make characters directly say that to achieve one of those goals, it is necessary to surpass both Admirals and Emperors. Simply Emperors would be enough if they were truly at level of their own. Even Oda said that himself in one of Stampede Volumes about Bullet and what IT means to be strongest, that Admirals just like Emperors are requirment to beat to be called strongest.
IIRC, Databook green said that Navy + Warlords = 4 Emperors. You have 3 Admirals + Mihawk vs 4 Captains.
Rest of Warlords are comparable to Commanders, and that still isn't equal (6 warlords vs at least 12 notable commanders).
Outside Admirals and FA, Marines aren't having strong fighters (Besides maybe Tokikake and Gion.)
And they still replaced Warlords with Seraphims who outside being durable (Lunarian Durability) aren't much more impressive than their original counter-parts as for now.
2. I don't really get what you meant in this point with Akainu and Kizaru. Sakazuki is strongest Admiral no doubt. Never meant he isn't. What I meant is that Kizaru managed to land a hit against Newgate. Also when was Kizaru running away? It was Edward who engaged into battle with him by trying to stop him. WB despite having chance was unable. Which counters your whole point that 'Never in series, Admiral was fine after fighting Emperor'.
Kizaru was fine. Akainu was wounded by in better shape than heavily wounded WB who missed half of face and had two massive holes in himself which was making him bleed quite a lot. Kuzan would deal damage if not interrupted by Jozu.
3. He was done? Then I suppose 'done' and 'nearly killed' Akainu can get through all remaining division commanders + Crocodile like It's nothing.
Never said Sakazuki wasn't Injured. He was. But saying he was nearly dead when AFTER short time when he came back he literally showed no signs of even being affected other than blood. Sure he was paralyzed.
Also, you said yourself that It would be water that would kill him (Unknown if there was water at the bottom IIRC but sure). Not WB but water in your opinion. And still, you use THIS to downscale Sakazuki but you're bringing up that Luffy was Injured by barrier when Kizaru kicked him, as a nerf to Luffy and not a feat for Borsalino.
'cope' you say.
As for Akainu showing reaction. So did Kaido when Scabbards (Outside 3 of them, rest aren't beating commander) stabbed him. He was screaming and sweating. In fact even characters like Zoro without Ashura got Kaido to show reaction. Even kid with Simple toss got reaction from Kaido. Law got Kaido to yell by simple rocks.
Sure, I suppose you can say Aramaki got his Logia form out and was paralyzed by Shanks Haki. His Devil Fruit Powers were up for a while still after this. He felt that sure. But again, simple 'woah' or 'dahh' is better than Kaido screaming from sharp rocks with clear pain. Aramaki was sweating, but again doubt that he would be sassy if he would be fully outclassed. If Aramaki would fight Shanks (Assuming he would ward off him, (though as I said I do think that Shanks would win a 1v1 between them)) he would be heavily Injured and making his mission to get Straw-Hat pointless.
He came for Luffy not for a fight with full healthy Emperor. This is literally same as Teach being worried and deciding to leave when Old Rayleigh appeared. But I guess we only care that Ryokugyu is admiral which is why we downplay only him.
Besides, I do have OG Emperors being closer to OG Admirals, while the New Emperors (Current Luffy and Teach) are relative to New Admirals (Aramaki, Isshou).
But I can see this as anti-feat at the end of day. Just like Luffy being saved by Kizaru but eh.
Kizaru literally had energy to perception blitz everyone, get food, deliver it to Luffy and make him recover with it. If he had ENERGY for that, a simple laser to finish off Luffy isn't problem. If Borsalino would be badly injured, I don't see him being up and going with his mission/task.
He was acting to be out of breath, but the fact is that he was concious and had energy to fight.
'making light clones'. If he would have strength for that, I don't see him not having strength to finish off Luffy who was out of stamina. But sure buddy. Head-canon.
4. Oh, so a cocky main character that doesn't have any idea of the gap between him and her, that basically nearly always overestimate himself is same as a fully experienced marine that at this point knows how strong Emperors are, and knows when to not act stupidly/on impulse when on worse position is same? Didn't knew that.
Borsalino in vivre-card was said to adapt to a Gear 5 quickly because of his experience.
Besides, simple fact that a statement from top-tier who aknowledge a strength of other top-tiers is more reliable than whatever a cocky character that is far behind the pinnacle of power in verse says. But I guess you find this exactly as same things.
'why do you considered making Kaido angry a serious threat..'
And somehow Akainu literally ignored the threat of two emperors joining forces knowing this will cause them to rebel and more troublesome to keep on leash, by leaving everything in hands of 'samurai'.
Not to mention, that 4 Emperors system does benefit WG than simply erasing them. They COULD do it if they wanted, considering how many fighters WG and Navy alone has that can fight the respective captains.
Saturn send out Kizaru at Egghead knowing Luffy, a person with really strong fruit and person that take down Kaido is there and will probably fight back. That kinda bites itself with whole 'not make Kaido angry' thing.
Kaido only outlasted initial Gear 5, and dominated him for a short moment.
Full health Kaido would beat Luffy no doubt.
However, Kizaru had upper-hand against Luffy/G4 Luffy and had him to use Gear 5 to actually fight with him. And still Kizaru outlasted him and had chance to finish him.
I'm not gonna go with the whole 'Luffy used ACOC or didn't used'.
Oda even in fight against Kaido not always included 'black lightnings' when ACOC attacks were used by both characters when after Luffy learned it, and the damage was same as when the lightning was. In fact, Oda literally didn't even drew Gear 5 attack being coated in Busoshoku and still it was supposed to damage Kizaru.
Kizaru and Gear 5 Luffy power-wise are close, and I'm giving Borsalino a slight edge compared to Current Luffy.
5. Didn't meant the 'bounty = strength'. I included it in previous comment but maybe I came with wrong words or whatever. But Buggy having that bounty isn't destroying my argument, as he is seen as Emperor. But my bad then if I used wrong words earlier. What I meant, is that oda makes Admiral have similiar bounty as Emperors or characters that beated one. And the fact that he made Sakazuki have 5b bounty when he could just simply make it lower for Admirals and adjust Sakazuki to have it lower as well. But he didn't.
Also your point here also attacks your own argument that you didn't answered about Kuzan being weak because he is commander of other Emperor. Both Kuzan and Mihawk serve under Teach/Buggy because they benefit. With Kuzan it is even more complex as he has his own agenda.
But again, there are more examples where hierarchy =/= power.
6. Also, in newest vivre-cards it is said that mentally nerfed Kuzan fought against Garp who had same strength as when he had when he was chasing Roger. Odd statement, but again a way to say/show that Admirals and Emperors are comparable.
@@kfc-employee1380
So much yap to say basically nothing. Most of the points here are outright Self-Evidently wrong, and were a waste to even type out. Next time you attempt to debate, try to consider the points of others and maybe realize that sometimes,your opinion was just wrong.
1. Assuming author intent is a just a fallacy so there's almost nothing here worth responding to. The only point I'll even bring up is "Navy + Warlords = 4 Emperors. You have 3 Admirals + Mihawk vs 4 Captains." Like.. no ? Lol. If it was only Mihawk - the system would've been abolished long ago, and they'd just have him on payroll. It is not the navy and Mihawk is equal to the emperors..! Its the navy / wg and All of the Shichibukai equaling the Pirates. The other ones are needed as well - this is directly stated. Your personal headcanon is worthless here entirely. It's not even internally consistent, as the Admirals would just team up to wipe out the Yonko one by one.
2. Do you know who else managed to land a hit against whitebeard ? Fodder marine number #76 who jumped at him with a sword. If you noticed- he's not dodging. He knows this is his last fight, he legit doesn't care. He can tank anything these people can throw at him, and he has. Never in the series was an admiral fighting an emperor on even ground, unless you consider fodder marine 76# feat admiral level I guess and "fighting a Yonko on equal ground..!" He performed the same and ended the same way( having to move away for one reason or another.)
3. Akainu was nearly dead. Nothing you say will ever change the explicit canon here. He quietly literally couldn't even move his hand enough - after vomiting blood to save himself from dying.(He had no way of knowing if there was a ledge he could grab if he fell down down.) As far as he knew - that was his end. And it legit would've been, had he not gotten lucky with a ledge. It's a completely undeniable scene - and a major plot point in and of itself. It's what allowed the main character to survive and the story to take place. No amount of cope will ever change this.
4. Yes welcome to one piece, not so happy to have you. Kizaru acts cocky even when he's in the shitter. That's his literal entire character. Benn Beckman was one trigger-pull away from ending his life and he was still pretty chill. Kizaru's overconfidence and always chill attitude is part of what makes him fun, and enjoyable to read about. Kizaru would get clowned by Kaidou with 0 diff, though not for lack of trying.
Akainu didn't ignore anything. It was Wano - what they could do was very, very limited at the time and he's not the guy in charge, that's the elders who he Works for as a subordinate. Enraging Kaidou could lead to a war much worse than the one with Whitebeard. If you try arguing things like this, do give the manga a read, clears up a lot of your confusion. The Elders - who are stronger than Any Admiral by a mile - were scared of Kaidou's rampage. One of them is so strong that Luffy can't even penetrate their basic armamanet Haki btw and it hurts his hand to hit them. Sure didn't see that from Kizaru.
Kaidou has quite literally brawled through 2 G5s, after fighting an entire war.
Kizaru doesn't outlast him at all. What are you talking about ? Kizaru Loses their first round. He gets close for sure - the reasoning behind which is explained directly in the manga. Luffy nearly dies - which he himself states - by going through the light barrier(which doesn't harm Kizaru.) twice. That's the reason. Kizaru loses basically the moment Round 2 starts, despite having an immortal elder to draw the attention away from him.
5. You did, you mentioned they got "big bounties and therefor important..!" Newsflash - never been the case. Kidd had a bounty of 3 billion(equal to your precious admirals.) and he's out of the story now lmao. A Big bounty just means the WG wants you out of the picture. They're only meant to be a legit progression for the Strawhats who "earn" it if you will. In most cases, my guy a bounty is just a bounty. A cheap hype tool at most. Kidd had a higher one than Luffy over just attacking civilians. Kuzan is a subordinate. I don't know if you've read OP... but Mihawk doesn't Actually work for Buggy as much as its a meme. They just use him as a "face" - to do what they want through. They literally bully and disrespect him non-stop. Kuzan Works for Blackbeard. Not the same thing.
@@crazagres1839
And that is because...? I answered all your points. Unlike you who skipped some of mine when you didn't had a way to counter them/answer them. But typical 'debating' situation where other person just being overwhelmed decides to attack other way instead showing counter-arguments. You played yourself.
'consider points of others' mate, that line described your whole comments. But sure buddy. Keep going with your own way of thinking and totally not understanding the story itself.
1. Author words is fallacy? Sure keep thinking that. Oda himself stated something and that is what matters. Unless you know the series better than him, then both of your comments are pointless and literally waste of time both for you and me.
It was Navy + Emperors. Not WG.
So, Navy + Warlords = 4 Emperors (Basically Crews and allies). Keep your points at least right.
'if it was only Mihawk', somehow two of the original warlords got beated by Pre-TS Luffy, and every other warlord was surpassed at WCI based on their showings. It was just recent when Oda made Hancock bounty raise, and that's all. But even not counting her, the rest literally aren't getting past 1YC characters. Kuma, Doflamingo, Jinbei.
For navy you can argue about Old Garp and Sengoku being there, but Admirals should be stronger than them at that time.
So again, your point is dismissed.
Seems like your 'opinion' isn't the one that is right as well huh.
Ah. The typical 'If Admirals would be relative they would team up to beat..' like, what? If Emperors would be stronger than Navy they would just team up and then rule the seas by themselves. They don't know about WG fighters or anything. This is the most basic and literally one of the most ridiculous argument that is used and you just proved to be that PERSON. Congrats.
'Warlords are needed', they were supposed to be needed. But Oda clearly just didn't thought about power-scaling them right for the story, as again Warlords aren't doing much to Emperors themselves. Even at Marineford nearly none of them did something special.
At the end, keep in mind that WG has benefits of having Emperors around. But that probably is too much for you to even get.
One important note is that Navy had to hold back to keep their Island as a symbol of theirs (Sengoku, Kizaru, Sakazuki all had moments when they literally wanted to make Island survive as much as it can) meanwhile Jinbei says to Luffy, that Newgate can go all out as his crew is adapted to his fighting style.
2. You know what else is diffrent? Whitebeard actually was fighting against Kizaru. While I don't recall him trying to hit and not being able to a mentioned fodder marine. But sure. Reading comprehension isn't your strong side, I get it. But to actually miss the basic logic is something worth to be in awe.
Also, don't back up on your initial point that Admirals were never fine after fight against Emperor. The only fights you have in series like this (shown) are 3 Admirals vs WB (Each individually) and Aramaki vs Shanks. And somehow the former were able to overwhelm Newgate.
Again, can't back up your claims. Don't get into debates then.
'never Admiral fought on equal ground'. Sure. Ignore the fact Kuzan would wound WB because he failed to stab him, Kizaru having upper-hand and Sakazuki actually doing more to Edward than he did to him.
3. He knew he was done? Way to try to put head-canon into reality bruh.
Tell me IN WHAT panel he was shown to know he was done for? Unless you bring things out of your head, there isn't any single moment in Manga that shows this. If Sakazuki would be nearly dead, he wouldn't come back like nothing happend and proceed to clash with rest of Whitebeard pirates big shots and chase Luffy down. HOWEVER if you want to go with the 'Akainu was nearly done, because I said so!' we can stretch some showings such as ACTUAL 'nearly dead' Whitebeard getting actually done for by Blackbeard pirates, while SUPPOSED 'nearly dead' Akainu managed to get through Whitebeard's commanders and just continue his chase. Your logic isn't helping you.
'consider points of others', mate you're digging holes under yourself the more you try to prove that ONLY YOUR thinking is right when It's getting rejected by source.