Proposal to End the Audiophile Cable Snake Oil Forever
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- Опубликовано: 15 апр 2020
- We've spent 20+ years debunking the snake oil claims in audiophile/esoteric cables. In this video I make a proposal to the audio industry to STOP abusing fully understood engineering claims to justify the sales of their products and I will stop calling them snake oil. I further offer audiophile cable companies to submit their products to Audioholics for 3rd party verification testing which they can then publish on their website to help consumers make more educated purchasing decisions.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - "Hitchens razor
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If you spend $10,000 on a power cable, you'll hear the difference. No one else will, though.
$30k speaker wire exists because people want the appearance of Quality and Exclusivity and will pay for it.
Like the $10,000 ap that just displayed a picture of a $10,000 bill on the screen. They actually made money on that because people just do things to say they did.
I'm with you though. It requires a certain level of carelessness and stupidity.
So true. One must justify their stupidity
Ok, that's gold.
have u spent 10,000$ in your life ever on cables? what your refering to is snake oil.. Kimber isnt that.. i have used all fancy cables and have settled with kimber, not becos they are expensive, but they reveal you the difference and the improvement in the quality of sound.
Good comment!
SPOILER:
They aren't going to stop making their crazy claims.
Agree as long as there are consumers willing to pay they will.
@@IsmaelMartinezPR
That's means accept that they've been lying the whole time.
Spoiler: Synergistic Research is frothing at the mouth and kicking his cat...
Agreed - too many dealers relying on their cut. If i tell you i can give you 20% off the price of a $1500 cable that cost me $500, you will automatically think you are getting a great deal. Factory wins, dealer wins and the customer goes home thinking he scored - bmw dealers would love it.
I would add that the magazines have aided and abetted the cable companies every step of the way and even the 'Audio Jewellery' argument makes little sense to me when you consider that most of us hide our cables where possible. Bjc / mogami / cardas by the metre makes sense but the rest seem to be straight from the Monster Cable school of marketing imo. Make your own and you can wrap them in gold leaf for all i care ;
Gene, I love that you being a respected audiophile RUclipsr are trying to challenge this industry plagued with snake oil. I am an engineer myself and I have always bought bulk cables from - Belden, Canare, Mogami and sometimes Monoprice. I terminate them using quality connectors from Neutrik, Switchcraft and even parts-express! If I can make a suggestion - you should try to educate your viewers on how to make quality DIY cables at home using these basic components. The most common audio cables (speaker, interconnects - XLR and RCA) can be made by most people without special tools or scientific knowledge. You can then take measurements and compare those DIY cables. THAT would be very interesting! :)
I love this idea.
That's a great idea! I would love it learn how to make balanced headphone cables! Have you priced them? OMG! But, since YOU are an engineer and making cables already, why don't you make a few videos? Thanks!
The best locking banana plugs I have seen are at www.GLSAudio.com.
They have done videos and articles on making speaker cables in the past, including using cat5 I believe.
@@joanfrederick9176 To make great cables, you need to be more of a craftsman than an engineer. The key is knowing how to remove cable jackets and stripping conductors, soldering, and adding heat shrink tubing (sometimes). If you have those skills, you can make great cables!!
Exotic expensive cables are like like Rolex Watches: they don't tell time any better than a $25 Timex but they make you feel better about yourself: Audio Jewelry. If you have low self-esteem and don't believe in science -- go for them. They may be be cheaper than therapy :)
LOL the difference is Rolex doesn't claim their watches tell time more precisely than a Casio.
@Sean - LOL! Good points.
A watchmaker once told me the same thing.
There is also a craftsmanship angle in expensive swiss watches. If you care about that, it might be worth paying more for a watch that doesn't tell time better than any other decent watch.
@@Audioholics the Rolex will likely still be working 25 years from now. The casio wont.
I unsubscribed from Audioholics... So I could subscribe HARDER! :) Keep up the good work Gene, we need this.
LMAO Priceless
Finally, karma has come to bite the cable companies where it hurts the most. Telling the truth.
Thanks for the shout out Gene. Hitchen's Razor: "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
Man I gotta drill that into my brain. Thanks Buddy!
damn you beat me to the hitchens quote
I need to copypasta this on a few of Darkos videos.
That's not what Hitchens razor means but ok then
Glad to see you back in full force Gene-have been enjoying your videos for awhile. As Carl Sagan used to say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." The burden of proof is on the cable makers, not the skeptics.
I will use that Carl Sagen quote in my next cable video. Thanks.
Hi Gene,
I wanted to congratulate you on beating the COVID-19! As an audiophile I have been watching your channel for many years and my whole family was praying for your recovery!
I wanted to share with you my expierences with cables. I am an engineer just like you, I build AMD Radeon graphics cards. I am also an audiophile for 10+ years. Recently I went DIY route and built my own speakers and am in the process of designing my own electronics.
I heard differences in interconnect cables and speaker cables in the past. What scares me is that I have 3 different USB cables at home and 2 coaxial cables and they all sound different. In a blind test I can immediately tell which USB cable is playing. I know it sounds crazy, but this is how I am expierencing it.
I think what is important regarding cables is to debunk two myths:
1. If you don't like the sound of your system, changing the cable is going to fix that
2. If you buy a more expensive cable, you will improve the sound of your system
Cables in my opinion change the overall presentation ever so slightly. If you find your system too bright, you can find a cable that will make it a little "warmer". If you want a little bit tighter grip on the bass, you can find a cable that will do that. I had the pleasure of testing 500$+ cables and must say that the results are very system dependent. In my system I choose a 50$ cable, which had the sonic qualities which were the best for my system and my room. So I advise people not to overspend on cables, because a more expensive cable does not automatically mean better sound. In my opinion cables can be used to fine tune your system as the last stage of audiophile journey. What is scary for me, is that even digital cables can sound different, altought more obvious differences can be found with speaker cables. The least difference, if any, I found with power cables. I just use shielded power cables that do the job and don't cost a fortune. The money is much better spend on a quality power strip.
Regarding the first myth I think that people have this mindset that changing the cable is going to make them like the sound of their systems. It is very difficult to build a good sounding audio system, especially if you don't have a dedicated room. Probably that's why people have this hope that spending 500$+ on a cable is going to fix the issues with their setup. And they do spend 500$+. Unfortunately that is not the case. I had this thinking in the past and made wrong audio choices because of that. It is much better to spend the money on speakers or on treating your room. The return for a dollar spent is much higher.
Regarding cable measurements I have a friend who owns a small audio company. He has a Phd in electronics and builds dacs, preamps, power amps, speakers and cables for more that 15 years. He is a smart and humble guy at the same time, a very good person. He also works at a Technical University in Poland. He did research on cables as part of his job. Recently he posted on youtube a 1,5 hour video where he explained why there are differences in sound of different cables. The video got so much hate in the comments section, that it was taken down and moreover hurt his company reputation. So it seems that people are so polarized in terms of their opinions about the sound of cables, that they don't want to engage in any conversation. If someone has a different opinion, they even become hostile.
In the video he explained that there is much much more to cable design than just capacitance, inductance and resistance. As a side note he puts much effort into choosing the right cables for his dacs, preamps, power amps and speakers that he sells, so there must be something to it, otherwise he would not have been spending time and money on it.
As an analogy I can share my experiences with speaker design. When I was designing my own speakers, I found that I can make two different crossovers, which measure exactly the same. The on-axis and off-axis frequency response is the same, the group delay is the same, the watterfall plot is the same, the distortion is the same. Yet they sound very different from each other. It means that there are things in loudspeaker design which cannot be seen on the set of measurements that we established as industry standard. Maybe in the future we will come up with new measurements that will correlate better with the percieved sound quality. At this point, when you are desinging a loudspeaker, if your standard measurements are good a.k.a you didn't make an obvious technical mistake while designing your speakers, you still have to fine tune them by ears. It may be the same for the cables.
I strongly agree with your claim that the cable companies are not employing enginners who do reliable research on the correlation between cable measurements and the sound of cables. They just do a guessing work. Thats why I don't buy expensive cables from esoteric companies. On the other spectrum there are cable companies that I respect like Kimber which you mentioned or Supra. They have real engineers on board and do not overprice their products. Just please know that there is reaserch done for cable mesurements vs cable sound around the world, like the one my friend is doing and maybe we will have new methods of measuring cables in the future that will better correlate with their sound quality.
All the best Gene for your whole family. I hope that we will get though this crisis. Thank you for all your hard work on the channel! Marcin from Poland
Always in joy your videos Gene. Glad to see you look fully recovered. You're the reason I didn't spend big bucks on cables. Went with Bluejeans cable and they work fine for me.
Double blind listening tests are a good way to reveal snake oil. I'd put a cable manufacturer in a room and let him/her identify one specific cable out of five different cables. If he can't identify his own cable he's a snake oil salesman. One cable can sound different from another but is it "better" or "best?" BTW, very glad to see you healthy and over covid 19. I've been pulling for you.
Gene I'm sorry to keep bringing this Covid 19 thing back up, but I'm soo glad to see your doing well. You are a source of hope & inspiration for those that might be going through the same situation.
Cheers my friend🍻
Forget about the interconnects and speaker cables, let's talk power cables, usb cables, and digital interconnects!
I love the idea that special expensive HDMI, USB, fiber and ethernet cables make a difference. The 1's and 0's could care less what they go down.
@@zackschindler8334 my gold plated optical cable made a difference in my system your speakers just aren’t resolving enough
@@blanchbacker USB cable makes a big difference. Some people they just have potato hearing and can’t hear any difference.
You are absolutely right. I’ve been an audiophile for something like 60 years. I became an audiophile in the tube era, before people started to market exotic cables. I always thought the subject was snake oil. I still use, depending on the length of the run 12,, 14 or 16 gauge wire. I’m sure that there may be cables that are better than straight speaker wire. Someday I may look into the subject. But for now Kudos for you for standing up to hustlers.
Great blooper reel! Ha ha that offer to measure the cables for them and publish your measurements is a game changer.
Back in full form !
It is great to see these videos calling out nonsense. As long as the cable is of the right gauge for the power handling and length it is ran all is good. It still amazes me that people believe a massive power cable plugged into the wall is going to make a difference when the 80' of wire from the outlet to the breaker panel is the cheapest wire the home builder could buy in bulk. Not sure how that $300 cable for the last 3' to the amp is going to magically make things so much better.
Then again I'm not an electrical engineer......
I am. You are right
delighted to see you are fully recovered Gene :)
I got ofc cable laying aroung. Would you suggest braiding it in a 4 string braid or seperating it 1.5 inches running it parallel. Cancellation of the magnetic field through braiding or seperating them as far, als my wife allows?
Nice to see you going back to your passion topics! We may have to link up in the future for logic x lessons. Just got monitors in set them up yesterday.
Great video Gene! Let's see who in the cable industry has the cojones to measure up. Honestly having certified testing from Audioholics would be a huge game changer. 😎👍
Question from me a thoroughly confused audiophile. What is wrong with the 16 or 18 gauge lamp cord that I have been using for years? I cannot hear a difference between it and some "super cables" that I have borrowed to try.
What are your thoughts on Canare LV-61S cable for interconnects. I've been using it since the '90s with their RCA connectors. (I believe Blue Jeans is building similar interconnects).
I've said it once and I've said it a million times, I'm glad that we have people like Gene in this industry. That said, the power of suggestion is real, and these companies aren't interested in the 5% that know better, they're interested in the 95% that aren't.
I must admit I don’t understand all the technical schemes (images) you showed, but that’s a nice t-shirt you’re wearing.
Have to say this again I just recently discovered AudioHolics and I’m going through a lot of the videos posted (each day I view a few of them to make up for the years I didn’t know about AudioHolics) and I already learned some new stuff (especially on the topic of subwoofers). Keep the content going it’s amazing!
Glad to be a resource for you. Kylo Ren could have been written so much better, but oh well ;)
Just bought some Kimber 8vs this morning. Glad I didn't spend any more than I did. Hard to believe most of the claims of other cable companies, however I'm not an engineer. I'm a nurse. I really wouldn't know about these things so that's why I watch. Keep up the good work!
I've been following you for a while and thus far I have been holding strong on the cable subject. I think I'm done with my components with Mcintosh separates, B&W speakers, Oppo 205, 2 reel to reel machines, decent turntable and a power management unit. So I'm thinking of spending $500 on cables to see for myself. $200 interconnect and $300 power cord. So far have been using blue jean speaker cable and monolith XLRs and factory power cords. Let see how it goes.
Glad to see you healthy.
Some companies will let you use them on a trial period, I would look into that. If you don't like them you just take them back, or send them back. Probably have to pay for them or put a deposit down though, then if you don't want them you get the money back. I did this many years ago at a high end audio shop. I couldn't tell a difference so I took them back.
So Gene I have 11.2 channel would the denon 8500 sound better then denon 6500 I know the specs are different in both receivers but overall would they sound that much different (thanks) sorry I know it's off topic
I've mentioned to some friends about getting cables and speaker wire from Amazon once or twice because they're just setting up new systems. Sometimes they ask "isn't the more expensive ones better?" So i tell them it's mostly looks. Most people that can afford to spend an extra buck on something will if it's something they want and are told it's better. But your absolutely correct they should just say it's decorative and be done with it. Great video!
Gene, this the perfect opportunity to really go after and determine if cables make an audible difference to a population of listeners and if so try to characterize the differences and attempt to correlate said audible differences with objective measurements. This will of course require you to carefully setup and control the listening tests and document the results. The setup and execution of the tests isn’t too difficult actually if you use the method I suggested in an earlier comment to you but the hard part will be to glean useful responses and diligently record them for later analysis. Then attempting to measure and correlate the subjective data with objective measurements will likely be the toughest job of all. This is based on my work in the 1980s at the CBS Technology Center where I was part of a team attempting to understand if an analog copy protection method was audible and if so what differences in the sound of various types of music was detected. In the end, it was determined that the data showed that there was no statistically significant differences with or without the copy protection engaged.
Of course I can’t say whether or not your results would be the same, but I think if you expended the effort to run such a rigorous experiment, it could go a long way to either help manufacturers of audio cables to sell their products by referencing your test results or dispel the claims made by the manufacturers. I wonder how many manufacturers are brave enough to support you in this experiment.
Awesome video.im glad you made this video.anytime cables come into play, salesman always try to up sell them. Hope you’re doing well 🙏🙏🙏🙏
great vid! i am curious to see results. is it possible to also give your opinion of at which price point of speakers/amp would it be possible for most buyers to hear a difference between cables or what would be good synergy? or, another way to ask... if i had a $4k budget setting up 5.1 system ...how much of that should i plan to allocate to cables vs rest of system?
Does this apply to a usb A to C cables from a PC to a DAC also?
I would love to hear your view about what's a good enough cable for speakers, in terms of materials, bulid, conectors, etc. with refences to very common brands.
Don't you think that "good enough" is a relative term? Something that is satisfactory for an average listener might be not enough for someone who's striving for perfection.
Ethan Weiner of Real Traps is a great debunk-er of audio snake oil.
Imagine how great everybody's audio systems would be if they spent as much time and effort on the acoustic principles Ethan teaches about instead of spending their time and money on parts swapping and cabling.
Drawback is that Ethan seems nuts though...
You mean Ethan Winer? :)
To me, Ethan is intolerable ...
@@HaraldMacGerhard Ethan's a great guy, unless you disagree with him about anything at all.
I've read some recent studies that say the increased accuracy of test instruments show that magnetics in higher frequencies create distortions in the signal. One study showed the timing differences, of the signal, between silver and copper conductors of various sizes. I can't wait to hear a cable that gives us correctly timed signals across the entire audio spectrum. I think that will give us a lot closer to life like listening experiences. I also believe that those test instruments will continue to get better so the snake oil will keep pouring.
Thanks for another good video.
Glad to see your still recovered .mine keeps turning off and on ..im on day 33 crazy stuff I kno ..hopefully soon ..i can focus on other stuff ..keep it up bud.
It's tough man. My RA is definitely worse from COVID-19 and I will be dealing with that next. Hope you feel better soon.
@@Audioholics RA ?
@@demolaj1 Rheumatoid Arthritis.
Gene, I have enjoyed your content and I often turn to Audioholics for reviews, perspectives, etc.
I am 100% anti snake oil having dipped my toe in that pool a decade or so ago.
However, I had a set of Conare cables (6ft runs w/Nakamichi banana clips) in my budget system for about 10 years. I have made adjustments over that time but my current set up has been in place for about 2 years.
- NAD C316bee V3 Integrated amp
- Klipsch RP600M OG Version on stands slightly toed
- Schiit Bifrost2 Ladder DAC
- Audiolab 6000CDT Transport
- Morrow Audio IC (entry level solid core copper)
- Morrow Audio digital cable
I then decided to try some Kimber 4pr and the difference in sound was there. It was very clear and anyone else could have heard the difference as well. My system with the Kimber 4pr displayed the low end in a slightly more forward way but still remained distinct and had texture.
I can’t really comment for sure on the highs although I felt like those were toned down slightly too. However, this could have been placebo.
Is it possible that the Kimber Kable was just a better constructed cable that allowed the base characteristics of the amp, DAC, CD transport to shine through?
The Kimber Kable didn’t break the bank but there was definitely a difference.
Also, is it easier than we think to poorly construct a cable?
How can this difference I heard be explained?
As a longtime open-minded audiophile, I’d welcome anyone else’s similar experience with this phenomenon too.
Keep up the great work 👍🏻
Hi Gene
Glad to see you are feeling better
Love your true view on cables
I have a pair of Tara labs I paid aprox $2000 for and a pair of cables I made with 12/3 ext cord same length as Tara
Friends as well as me can hear no difference on any format or type of music track
Best of all is diy cables cost aprox 30 bucks
Glad to see you're feeling better. As for the cables. If they were just marketed as "fine corinthian leather" rather than as "the ultimate driving machine" I would be fine with that as well.
Oh my God I love your blooper reel!! 😅😂
There’s so many awesome topics you could spread your knowledge on why go back to this again and again and again. You’ve got the knowledge man.
Glad your better Gene. I just picked up the Kimber 4VS speaker cables from Kimber distributor here in Canada and haven't hooked them up yet. I think they will improve the standard 16 AWG cables. What do you think..?
I'd love to see an A B test with some expensive cables, some cheap cables and something like romex just to see the difference.
We need A B C D tests because some of the cables are uni-directional :p
I will bet on 10-2 romex!
@@andrewkelly1225 or even 14/2.
People have done that. You have to make adjustments though because the two cables will have different electrical parameters and they do sound different. Thick cables have a higher capacitance and filter out the highs. Once the adjustments are made you can't tell the difference.
@@MagruderSpoots so you have to fix it so they sound the same? Sounds reliable
Never buy Monster Cable. My wife gave me some Polk Audio mains many years ago and the salesman talked her into these fat Monster cables. I should have returned them but wound up using them until the banana plug ends tore up which shouldn't have happened because i rarely move my speakers. At any rate I tried to get them replaced under the lifetime warranty but they made it impossible to actually get in touch with a live human to start a warranty claim. They are a very unethical company.
LoL..I have same problem with my 2 HDMI cable from Monster..there is no way you could use that lifetime warranty that those cables have..never again any of monster products!
RandyL, excellent point. In fact this is the core reason why there is even a business model that persists with cables. Self-medicating with endorphins is an extremely powerful motivator of satisfaction, and many have become adept at this. Too bad, for these individuals, it requires spending of much money unecessarily to get that buzz. For some of us, the best value for the money is the buzz.
Gene, I have used Blue Jeans cables for years, speaker, RCA and Digital. I was so glad to hear Audioholics endorse them. I buy cut to order and terminated and have always felt they are a great value. Blue Jeans turns my orders around incredibly fast and FedEx is at my door in just a couple days. Sure they are not sexy, but in my system cables are to remain out of view as much as possible. The 10White cable is my speaker of choice. I buy their RCA cables in various colors and the exact length I need so easy to follow behind my media cabinet and minimum excess. I’m sure some expensive cables may sound a tiny bit better but the law of diminishing returns lives here too. Keep up the good work. Enjoy your vids and learn from you,
Star Trek insert: Scotty was commanded to warp out from a cold start ( I'm a treker, what can I say). Anyway, Gene, speaking from my experience, I'm in total agreement with you! Nice out take tag. You laughingly smiled!👍 Good health!
Theoretically it's possible.
And they worked it out. :)
Hello sir I have been seeing your channel for quite a while . I have a question that I want to ask. I want to buy optical cable for my home theater. from xcite and it's 12 kuwaity dinars. In usa it might be around 36 dollars. So will the audio quality be more better
And the company is" monster" digital fiber optic audio cable
Sometimes slightly more expensive cables are worth it.... better connectors, better build quality, better insulation from interference (and living in an apartment these days makes that a real concern), and yes better looks too. There's a difference between a crimped connector, a soldered connector, and a welded connector. Especially over time where corrosion at those joints might become an issue.
instant like for the title alone. how is your family doing regarding your ex covid? is it safe, you are not contagious anymore?
I think this is a good idea. Anytime I hear someone talk about how they hear a difference in cables, they never mention any of those engineering terms anyway so Im not sure it even helps sell them.
Personally, when Im shopping for cables, I don't look for specs because I simply expect them to work properly. My purchase is based completely on looks and construction.
That's right! Cables cannot possibly make a difference .... in a crap system with a bunch of receiver clobbered together on top of each other. Buying a $1,000 cable for use on a Best Buy receiver is indeed stupid. A Corolla will drive like a Corolla, no matter what tires you put in
But Audioquest gives demos where they "prove" audible differences in cables using a boombox.
www.audioholics.com/editorials/audioquest-demo
What you think about monoprice cables? Cheap and look good, how does it measure?
Just love ya videos ,the problem is people are just drawn into the crazy crap that some cable manufactures claim ,who doesn’t like a good looking cable all nice and shiny with lovely connectors ,but this isn’t what makes a good cable ,a proper tested with real test results ,the problem is most of us don’t understand all the jargon that cable manufactures come up with
I think it would be a great idea if you did videos on actual testing of all type of cables so we can see the truth I’m sure that would piss off the snakes ,
Good to see you are well again :)
For me the most beautiful to look at speaker cables are 8 gauge ruby red see-through insulated wire by Parts Express. They sell the same with black wire for the - side.
Gene, have you tested and/or have an opinion on Mogami speaker cables?
1379 ditto. I run DIY mogami RCA cables and am happy with them.
Hello Gene, i am very thankful for your video, because i am more low budget hifi fan, i have one question, what a kind of cable you preffere for my Pioneer A 717 amplifier, is it importand that he have more wires inside (Some have more houndred, ore thousand, coated with silver,...)I am aware that thickness provide better conduction, lower resistance, but how far - diameter or square mm ? Best Regards from Slovenia - Renato Pleterski
Thank you Jean I used the Denon H 2400 and for the tower speakers I'm using Klipsch F 200 Tower speakers Klipsch subwoofer 10 inch producing 150 watts RMS 300 Peak and wire cables are 14 gauge. from Visions Electronics this is a store Poplar in Ontario Canada,
Gene, regarding cables, what measurements should we be asking these companies to show?
Hi there,
I'm a layman as far as the technical side of things are concerned. I recently purchases some QED Genesis Silver Spiral which I got because it was relatively cheap but mainly thought it looked really cool. Having said that I looked it up on their website and they provide the specs and they talk about this thing called the Genesis Report. I was curious if you're familiar with these cables and if you have any thoughts on the measurements that are provided. Thanks
Liked the ending, funny stuff Gene :) Keep it up, you´re priseless.
More people need to research and we are so thankful to have someone like you to test, showing that some companies don’t test and people falling for the marketing and getting taken by, people are twisting truth! It’s everywhere, and i don’t know if people are scared to face it or what but come on people. Ya have to learn a bit and i know there is a lot of fakes out there. But please research research and this is perfect, stop stop stop faking and saying this stuff exist when the books in electronics, and engineering say different!!! Good job Gene!!!
May I suggest having several soft diffused lights spread out across that back wall behind the camera, instead of 2x hard lights. They create hard shadows which are a little distracting. Great content as always Gene.
Yes my friend, working on that when we move to our new studio.
It’s not Videoholics dude.
I'm in 100% agreement on this, but good luck. I did a similar thing when I was an audio journalist and even after pointing out the flaws and false definitions, all I got was people mad at me. I went so far as to address the silly tweaks including battery packs, cable cookers, cryofreezing (ludicrous at the start).
These companies are not going to change. Whatever helps them fleece the gullible, that is what they will do. I don't have an $11,000 machine to measure, nor do I have a degree in engineering, but I studied physics as an elective and did not sleep during class. It is basic science.
I'm of the opinion that if the cables do the job, that is all you need. If the cables measure well, use them. Hey, the Monoprice premium interconnects are not bad, but the problem is the terminators, they are over engineered and don't play well with some gear. I found some Wireworld cables on sale and swapped them. I have a painfully revealing system because I like detail, but heard no sonic difference between the two. I prefer the Wireworld cables because they have excellent terminators and won't attempt to rip the guts out of the back of your gear. Yeah, Wirewold violates engineering terms and such like all the rest, but they don't do silly crap like battery packs, freezing, etc. at least.
I make my own speaker cables and even get fancy with them. I use the same cable the exotics use: Belden.
I don't care if someone hears a sonic difference with their cables or not, I've been yelled at by the cable zealots for not hearing a difference between apples and apples. I say spend what you want and if you hear a difference, great. Just don't tell others they are wrong or stupid because they don't buy in.
The mistake I also see many people make is believing and trying to EQ their system using cables, that flat doesn't work. Their excuse is usually, "well, I don't do tone controls or EQs, that is for losers" or some silly thing like that. All that does is show ignorance.
Thanks for your video, you’re looking amazing Gene! 👍🏻
Great Video Gene! And I agree, I have yet to hear a difference in speaker cables that are decent quality. Having said that, I bought Pangea power cables because I can buy the length needed, they look cool, and they're less than $50 a piece. Can better shielded power cables reduce interference/ background noise some? The background hiss seems to be lower a bit, but I wouldn't bet any money on it. Just curious about your thoughts on that aspect of it...
Glad you're better and please keep up the good work!
Looking forward to genes reply, but i think for power cords there is a strong common sense ration d’etre to have extremely well shielded cables and strong terminations that dont get loose. Thsi is especially true for your hi current draw devices (power amps) or if you cant physically isolate them from your other system cables. Most are overpriced, but i think $100-200 for a upgrade power cable for your power drawing devices is well worth considering for anyone.
What about high end power conditioners? snake oil? wondering what you think
Someone's feeling better!!
Excellent topic teammate!!!! Well said!!! And I'm glad to see you feeling better!!!!
Gene it is good to see you back at it. I really don't care about expensive cables because your budget determines what you will or wont buy. Gene dont believe the hype Kimber Cables have cables that are as expensive as Audioquest and any other cables in the thousands and I have heard claims by Kimble cables as well.
No talk or challenge will stop these companies, because there will always be buyers and no statement by the companies (or measurement by you will stop them or their buyers) will overall stop you.
What one person spends or don't matters little to me, if that person enjoys their system in the end, that's all that matters. There is snake oil in every industry that there is, Politics anyone. Specs are only one part of a product overall and I have seen items that spec well and sound like crap.
I spend less time worrying about others and more time enjoying my own system. Lets spend more time talking about what brings us together, sound quality and gear and less time on what divides us like cables.
I'm new to the world of high end audio and these videos are very helpful. One of the first things that stuck out to me about this world is that it's hard to find spec sheets that are the same. I don't know if AES or other authoritative groups have tried but it would be great if we had spec sheet standards like we have the nutritional facts on food.
Also, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is the greatest Star Trek movie that will ever be made.
Love this video so glad you made a huge point about cables. I'm using Viborg XLR cables and they are rated very well in my experience.
Your title alone gets a thumbs up from me!!
Have a suggestions. How about do reviews for lower end AV/Receivers and Speakers as well as the Higher End Stuff you currently do Videos for.
Fortunately I had the pleasure of listening to cables being swapped out at the HIFI show in the UK by a well known cable manufacture, the room had around ten people in it for each listening session, they used five of their own cables swapped out after a few minuets each to educate you. Not that it made any difference to me, I had already changed out some RCA cables from my CD player to my amp and realised then that it can make a difference and by some margin.
My interest was to listen and find out at what point do the gains become worthless due to cost of expensive cable. it was only the last change to the very expensive cables that i found it hard to tell the difference. What I do understand is that you need good components in the first place to hear the difference and that cost wise £100 to £400 RCA cables can have quite a difference on the sound, after that it get harder to tell the difference even with expensive equipment, at least that's my experience. By good equipment I am saying items like Rega Brio amp, Musical fidelity m2s cd, Monitor Audio Bronze 5 speakers, so around £2000 plus RCA cables and speaker cables, you will with out doubt be able to hear what different cables do to the sound.
5:45 How is DA of cable different to DA of shunt capacitor and how is wire in free space relevant please ?.
Read this: www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/dielectric-absorption-in-cables-debunked
Well, it's not. But you have to look at the magnitude of the problem. If you were AT&T back in the analog days, yes that was a significant factor on telephone lines running hundreds of miles even for lowly voice transmission. But on a six foot RCA cable? Especially with today's audio electronics that typically have line level output impedances of less than 100 ohms with typical input impedances of 10K to 50K? Do the math! How fer right of the decimal point is the problem visible?
I'm right there with you but its basically asking companies to stop tricking people into giving them money. "We checked our financial records and have decided to NOT stop selling snake oil. Enjoy your $7000 IEC power cable."
LMAO
I have a friend that works at the CERN. He was able to put some of my old Monster Cable in the most powerful particle accelerator in the world on an off shift. You would not be able to believe the difference it made! Now I can hear sounds that were not even on the original recording. Sometimes the wires even pick up recordings from the future. Wonder if I can sell them for $10k...
Great Video! Thank You for being honest with us!
I like the look of "Audio Jewellery" but the truth hurts some people.
Keep up the good work.
Where do you get those kimber kables with those cool banana plugs.
From Kimber :) But there is an outlet on Ebay where they sell them for significant discounts.
There is a reason that the owner of Audioquest lives in a 5 million dollar condo IN a Newport Beach shopping center. Markup!
Probably more than a typical house payment.
I bet those guys work on higher volume and lower markup than cable has. I can look up those guys also. I have records for the whole U.S. I can probably find Bill Low's HOA fee.
So does drug dealers!
I think that cable makers are like Drug Dealers satisfying a created need.
I've heard audioquest wel signature speaker cable @ $30,000 a pair lose to a $1500 newcomer, his claim is simple you like the difference you buy it,don't hear or like it don't buy it. The person who was auditioning the wel signature returned it,bought nothing.
Well done calling out the cable companies..
Put a list up of those that dont reply or respond.
Put a list up of those that do.
I know which list I'll choose from.
The hardest part I find is actually understanding what these companies are talking about when using technical terms but also using them in the context of audio cables which are usually short runs and how do these "principles" in engineering equate to better sound. In my experience however I could care less for the mumbo jumbo as at the end of the day it's all about how satisfied I am with how it sounds,
Love it Gene. Glad you are well.
'my Wayne Kerr anlyser' sounds funny to a Brit.. 🙄🤓😂
Gene, great video. I've been following you since you wrote that article on the RX-Z7 back in the day. I'm a fellow engineer and one who has always believed in measurements. I've been running plain ole and ugly BJC 10 white cables for years and I was just curious to hear if I could hear the difference with fancy cables. I heard on a AV forum about the Belden Iconoclasts cables and I tried them and I hate to admit it but I heard a fairly significant improvement. Maybe I'm crazy but it seemed to make a difference to me. Don't think confirmation bias was an issue since there was a risk free return policy. Anyways check them out, measurements for each cable were labeled on each bag. The designer of the cables wrote a couple white papers on the cable design and it would be good to hear your take on it.
Iconoclast measure well but nothing significant to cause a noticeable change in sound over your 10AWG. You may be falling victim to placebo. Have someone swap them out and see if you can detect the difference under blind listening conditions.
Could you make a list of the top 10 that measured the best?
Gene: I would love to measure your cables to see if they are worth more money than any other quality audio cable?
Audio companies: uhh, we're good Gene but thanks for the offer.
Gene: They were who we thought they were.
I never quite understood who is stopping Audioholics from buying any used fancy cables measuring them and reselling them for about same price.
Hey gene, is there an easy way to test an HDMI cable to see which version it is?
If you have a newer Denon/Marantz receiver, their is a debug mode that will tell you if your cable will pass 4k. Pretty cool.
@@Audioholics Samsung TV's also have an hdmi cable test. Q80 I think its a 2019 model.
Totally agree that most claims about cables are, at best, greatly exaggerated. I have tested many pairs and done so as a skeptic for all the reasons mentioned. That said, I ultimately did notice a difference between some cables, regardless of cost or reviews. They are very minor and usually related to the depth of the sound stage or a softening of the high end in my system. This is in a dedicated and treated space, 2 channel. I think it is important to put things into perspective, but cable companies could never sell stuff if they said their cables made a very slight differences. This is true of any audio component. At the same time, I think the cable skeptics discredit their own position when they state definitively that there can be no difference. People seem to relish in their superior knowledge of the engineering text that support their positions. If you think we know everything there is to know about why something sounds better or worse but measures the same, you are new to this hobby. If you are not new to this hobby and still can’t hear a difference, then save your money for something that you can hear. I wish I didn’t hear anything so I could do the same!
Gene are you gonna make audioholic t shirts? I would love to buy one. May the force be with you.
There are some available on the ads in this video but we do plan on offering more options when YT memberships roll out on our channel.
@@Audioholics Hey make some shirts about snake oil!
What I find insidious about the absurdly high priced cables is that they create false reference prices. I've seen people refer to $500 cables as "reasonable" or "value priced" because some people spend thousands on cables.
I had a cheap set of Sony towers and a Sony receiver in high school. I upgraded from cheap 18 gauge to cheap 12 gauge and could instantly hear some increased clarity. The resistance reduced from 125 mOhm (likely a little high due to oxidation) to about 24 mOhm.
I was looking at running "cheap" 8 gauge wire in the wall for a home theater room to keep the wire resistance below 20 mOhm on my longer runs.
Once you get blow a certain level of resistance in the wire the rest is psychological. Especially if that wire is stationary. I'd spend a little more on mic and instrument cables where you have motion because that induces its own noise.
I bought one Audioquest 3.5 TRS to dual RCA because of the cold welded connections. I think it has good shielding and you know, it's cool green color, which is what matters most. For the rest of my cables, I made my own out of some 98% TAC braid shielded quad core and Neutrik/Switchcraft connectors. They look like most cables, but are super tough, super shielded, don't let me down.
Can anybody answer in plain English why Spectral requires MIT cabling?
Fantastic Gene, here in Italy we have plenty of cables expert !
The biggest problem with cables is depending on the unit you hooking it to the impedance the load the resistance of the speakers the capacitance of the speakers the music that you're playing on them and anything else changes what two wires do so any wire can sound better on certain systems no matter what you do...
I’ve bought cables from Periaptcables before. They embrace the jewelry idea right on their site. “PERIAPT, pronounced /'perry, apt”/, an old English word used to describe an item worn as an amulet or charm.“ I can appreciate and respect the upfront honesty.
Very interesting to know your opinion about 5n occ Copper. And any sound quality increases with using occ Silver ? If you source and measure them PLEASE it can be very very userfull information. Can't find any data in the Internet.
Well said, excellent. May I propose an enhanced version of your idea. Legislate it! Just like the food, pharmaceutical, and some other consumer industries. Make it illegal to print or otherwise make false claims that are not backup up with peer reviewed science. Again as you said, they can charge what they want, they may even make subjective listening claims. But no engineering and physics talk that is not accepted by the expert authorities in our society. The experts are wrong? Fine, it has happened before. But then you must offer solid evidence and repeatable proof for peer review. And hey if you manage to do that, you will be now be the official new expert on the subject.
Late comment here, but hopefully someone shopping for speaker cable will see this. Belden, Gepco, and Clark make very nice speaker wire for about $1 per foot. Heavy 12 and 10 awg. Nice capacitance specs (26-30 pf/ft). The assembly is 2 conductors in a flexible jacket. To make the install "clean," after stripping off the correct length of jacket, add a little heat shrink tubing at the jacket edge.