Is Synergy in Audio Cables Real or Snake Oil?
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Check any audiophile facebook group or forum and you will find dozens of enthusiasts asking "what are the best cables to use with my audio components?" There are never shortages of recommendations from fellow enthusiasts and sometimes even industry experts have their own recommendations too. PS Audio recently announced a partnership with Audioquest citing that their products have a real "synergy" together. Is there any merit to this claim or is it pure marketing BS?
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I love how hard you crush people's hopes and dreams, no remorse. Some of this fantasy stuff is fun to believe and audio jewelry is beautiful, but it's so important to have someone like you bringing everyone back to reality. Let's make real improvements rather than spending so much time and resources on nonsense. Keep up the great work!
Gene, you make too much sense to be popular with most audiophiles. 🤣
You just summed up why @Audioholics is so darn amazing. Keep being awesome Gene!
I used to watch videos from PS Audio..... But then my wife complained that she could hear the BS from the kitchen!
Elderly salesmen...
@@Bob.martenswhat’s the alternative to being elderly? Being dead. Sounds like you don’t want to become elderly.
I stopped watching that fraud after he says power cables make A difference.
Think about it…listening to copper, nothing else, listening to copper! Either dumb or crazy!
BS Audio
I learned my most important lesson about placebo effect when I adjusted a tone control on a console several times until it sounded perfect only to realize that I had it bypassed.
Dan That’s happened to the best of us, usually after too much listening.
Ouch!
The synergy here is a business contract to align the two companies marketing machines together to promote snake oil products.
I hear you get the best synergy when you put a Spock cutout in a Ferrari , it lifts a veil on the exhaust note!
Oh look it's my favorite cigar channel commenting on my favorite audiophile channel. Nice.
@@youngmrjazz That's synergy for you. :D
Finally we got some expert telling the facts. All these audio cable makers basically sell snake oil. Oh yes they even sell a $10 power cord for $1000
I'm really glad you called Paul out on his bs. Lying about your product is a fast way to sink your company. I watched Paul's videos until he made the one about Audioquest cables and how they made his system soooo much better. The problem was that he was talking about power cables going into his own Power Stream power conditioners that cost $10,000 each! Shouldn't a $10k power conditioner already have amazing power cables on it? And if the $7k cables fix everything then why do I need a $10k power conditioner? I was really interested in his products until he lied. I'll be looking elsewhere for my new DAC when I buy it!
i mean. kinda silly to think he's *lying* about it, when his own company makes a competing product. wrong, sure, but if he was lying surely it'd be in the other direction.
wober777 At least Paul has a company making great sounding audio gear, I think he knows what he is talking about. Go read the article Gene posted. Maybe you guys should go on a road trip to Colorado to meet and listen and then make a judgment.
I really enjoyed Paul's videos, and had considered buying PS Audio products until I got the email announcing the PS Audio line of cables made by AudioQuest. It was really disappointing and I lost a lot of respect for him and the company.
I agree . If the PS audio functioned as advertised you should not need a fancy cable .
Gene, have been listening to you for years. Thanks for all you do, but I wanted to make a comment. I LOVED your mention of Hitchens Razor!!! RIP Christopher.
Sup Godfather of Home Theater, Gene Corleone aka Don Dellasala. I think you were fair in this one. Constructive in your criticism. Tough to argue with science.
I could sell a $#!∆ ton of high end cables just by saying they look awesome, they feel awesome, they're expensive and therefore exclusive. No unproven claims there. And throw a hot chick in for good measure. $$$$!
Joe N Tell well said brother. He really is GENE Corleone. I Hope you have a great day Brother.
:)) Cheers to the Audioholics Mafia
Joe N Tell
Hey, Joe. Wanna start a cable business? I know a couple of very attractive females. 😜
In this stoneage good looking guys might work too lol
The "hot chick" is ongoing expense.
I remember a review of the Technics Reference Series System where the reviewer thought the system was not sounding great until he switched the Ethernet cables that send a digital signal from the preamp to the amp to some fancy cable ethernet cables. This reviewer "discovered" how these magic cables changed the data stream from the digital signal and made it sound like magic. I stop reading that magazine that day. It was The Absolute Sound BTW
If anyone isn't fully convinced why data cables (and hard drives) can't change the sound, imagine you're transferring a file instead. If there were differences, the file would be full of errors. Executables simply wouldn't run. Websites wouldn't load. It would be useless.
It can happen but not because some esotherical reasons : I had troubles with a server farm which were showing intermitency. The reason: cable quality (the wires weren't holding in place after patched) and the technical aid (student) didn't patch correctly the cables. It was around 20 yr ago.
@@Yu-Fei-Hung yeah absolutely. But if the cable is well made and in good condition….
@@irisfailsafe there are cable comparisons made by musicians to check how these can modify the sound. Check this RUclips video (Spanish):
ruclips.net/video/mw6Ja1o0mzE/видео.html
As someone who seeks the best from both Home and Car audio, I must agree with you Gene! Car audio has its own unique obstacles to overcome. Years ago when I first started, I learned early on about cable quality in cars. I've been using RG6 as interconnects and ALL the noise is gone. A dear friend of mine loves his AudioQuest junk. I swapped in a pair to test with just for shits and giggles in my last build and all the issues of using cheap Walmart interconnects came back, alternator whine, spark noise, etc. Now I only use RG6 in my house as well. If it's good enough for automotive use, it's good enough for my home!
I once solved a problem I created with cheap EQ/Amplifiers. I had the Alternator whining noise. I tried filters and nothing worked.
Finally I learned the importance of a great close common ground. I took the ground wires of the head and EQ amps grounds to a common thick wire with as little distance between them. I grounded those to chassis. It made a world of difference. The power wire was RG59U coming straight from the battery and switched on by a relay.
Paul and his absurd cable nonsense turned me off to his channel. He went from a nice ole guy to a charlatan the first time I heard him go down that road. There's no way he truly believes that drivel. I still peak over there because some topics are interesting in other areas, but I'm calloused and suspicious of his opinions.
I don't know but following his ideas with subwoofers made a huge difference to m y system and I only use a Onkyo AVR
ruclips.net/video/5AoiS_e8wBA/видео.html
I personally like the guy and the channel. I think he is entertaining and smart. He isn't an idiot that is for sure. Like you though I don't agree with everything he says. Like power cables and speaker wires and the likes. Then again I don't really believe in god either, but I am not going to hate those that do.
PS Audio Noise Harvester AC cleaner... blinking light for $99. That's all I'm going to say.
So glad to have you in this industry, fighting the good fight for common sense and critical thinking. I love making DIY Canare LV-61S or Belden 1694F cables--high quality and no-nonsense. And then for audio jewelry, I'll sometimes get some pretty Techflex, but that's where the exotics end. :) Hope all is well with you. Keep doing what you're doing! :)
@@astroporpoise7802 thank you ❤️
I love this channel and Paul's as well - and, I think that Paul might even secretly agree with you to an extent. But he's a manufacture that has to "play nice" with other manufactures in the space. As long as cable manufactures spend huge money advertising in stereo related print and internet ads, I doubt manufacturers and even many reviewers, will call them out for being snake oil. It's one of many issues in the industry on a whole.
PS Audio now sells audioquest cables so of course Paul is going to talk them up in hopes of increased sales when someone buys an amp they can sell expensive power cords ,interconnects and speaker wire all at the same time. One thing I find particularly amusing is they now sell and use Audioquest Dragon power cords on the INPUT and output of their Power Plant regenerators ,now since the Power plant makes it's own clean power regardless of input why use expensive inputs.
I've always found the PS Audio videos to have very dubious and sometimes incorrect claims, with poor explanations of engineering.
@@rarelycomments You're alrignt. I apreciate Paul as a person, but his channel is based mostly on non-sense claims and audiophile BS...
@Mr Do I agree for 192Khz... but if you can't see the difference between 4K and 1080P contents, you need to change your glasses.
PS: there's no 16b/44Khz-only DACs anymore....
@@vintageflanker7096
Cd's are 16 bit 44.1 khz so 24 bit etc DACs is meaningless and 4k is stupid! If you have at minimum a 55 inch screen and sit 3 feet from it you will notice a diff, otherwise you won't. I couldn't give 2 craps about 4k.
Paul must be referring to the synergy with his bank account.
Haha... So true
Would that be his wife and the bank account more likely
😭😭😭
@@kevonmanuel 99% True to be precise :D
LOL!
No, I don't get tired of these sorts of videos on what works, and what does a bit of difference, and benefit; and what factors don't do anything. Thumbs up easily. You tell it as it is in the real world.
Gene is one of the few people that review products and various claims made by the sales side of the audio business with an eye towards the consumers best interest so God bless him for that. In this case I'd love to see if Gene could get the owners at Blue Jean Cables to weigh in on this, not to bash their competition, but just to offer their opinions on various types of cables and how they manufacture and sell very reasonably priced interconnects.
The owner of Audioquest lives in a 5 million dollar condo IN a Newport Beach shopping center. Lots of markup in Chinese-made cables.
What's wrong with Chinese made cables?? Raw material and literally everything is made in that place. Also alot of aq cables are made in USA high end ones.
Stanny1 Shows he’s a successful businessman, no different than restaurant owners that serve $500 entrees or someone selling $200 jeans with rips in the knees. No one HAS to buy their goods, yet people do.
Stanny1 should he live in the hood to make you feel better? Where would you live if you were in the same situation?
He could go shopping every day 🎁
When I sold Audioquest us salesmen got 75% off retail. We also got points for all the Audioquest we sold. I have AQ cables everywhere in my house. I would never in a million years buy those cables at retail.
Also met Bill Lowe of AQ once. He was an interesting guy.
Totally agree with this one. I have had this discussion at my hifi dealer several times. I tell them that in the circuit the goal should be that the cables do not contribute to the circuit for resistance or capacitance - in other words disappear in a thevenin equivalent circuit so that they do not influence the sound. As soon as the speaker cables begin to be a contributing part of the circuit you are now listening to something other than the way your speakers are designed to sound. I hate being told that there are some things we can hear but can't measure. We have been characterizing and measuring audio for longer than almost anything else. We know how to do it, and our instruments are much more sensitive, accurate, and repeatable than the human ear.
I am myself an electrical engineer by profession...and the audiophil for some 40+ Years...
Great observation...and the previous one about speaker cables as well.
Congretulation!
Measurements also cause placebo effects, due to preconditioned information. Why would you not rely on your ears when it comes to audio? Where do you draw the line? Can you hear your measurements, or is it just the placebo you're hearing?
before you did this vid i already owned the audioquest " water" cable.ive now removed the batteries from the 2 sets i have in my system. i think the word " synergy " is the wrong word to use in hifi. i agree with you ,i dont look at purchasing cables to have " synergy " personally for me its to make it look good and not to pick up interference etc. it would be great Gene if you would please measure the bhk appliances just to see exactly what ive purchased according to your side of the this past time.. also in cables from a hifi angle,i dont think it really matters how they measure ,its all to do with how they sound. if i had the worst cable in the world according to measurements but sounded the best cable ever ,then id buy it. i wouldnt buy a cable just because it measures well. it comes down to the fact that theres 2 ways of looking at all of this. no side is wrong. you guys are all correct in your arguments.
I agree with you about the “filter effect” cables have on gear. I’ve seen audiophiles claim that they liked a $2k cable better than a particular $10k cable. And I can’t explain that. The placebo effect would naturally push the $10k cable to the top of the list. I asked you a question on your “power cable debunking” video about if we know what to test for when it comes to things like cables. It was a really good question I won’t repeat the whole question here (it was eloquently written) . I hope you read that question and give it some thought. But you own that kimber cable and it measures better than your 10g. Can you actually hear any difference between the two? It seems silly that such a small difference would be audible. Just curious if you can hear a difference?
I've seen a ton of videos about speaker cables and I think Mr. Gene Dellasala knows what he is saying.
I bought recently audio cable KnuKonceptz 10 Gauge with Nakamichi screw lock banana plugs and I am quite happy with the sound.
I hope I won't regret it after few years.
Thank you Mr. Gene for sharing your knowlege.
28/03/2024.Have enjoyed your information very much.I do use the Kimber 8tc and the cables that came with my Hegel H390/Hegel Viking.
Dear Gene....you made my day. These snake oil guru's must hate you! Thank you for standing up!!!
Incidently, I have an E.A.R 518 amp that was designed and built by Tim de Paravicini himself.
If i send you my cable, that i designed, will you skip measurements and go straight to sound validation? If you hear a decent difference, will you advertice it on your channel and become a dealer? It will be a 50-50 after cost...
I've done a/b blind testing with expensive and cheap cables and really nobody could consistently tell a difference. Even had spliced together speaker wire at times. Cables and wire are the biggest crock of b/s in the consumer market.
@Mr Do not sure what point you are trying to make here.
I agree :) but how about copper vs silver ? does it change some measurement ?
The simple answer is: The Audioquest CEO is the PS Audio CEO’s friend. He has said so.
And audio quest is a huge rip off.... lol
“Just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in.”
Thanks for the video. They were talking business synergy and how both companies can make more money. Please do a video on conditioners (types), regenerators and if they matter and measurements.
Gene you're awesome, and I'm stoked to have stumbled on your channel. The answer to the question you proposed is..............Engineering grade cables may sound good to engineers, but since they don't look very cool they lose sound quality when they enter a consumer's home.
Thank you Gene. You will always be a standard barer for me. I have some electronics and communications background. I too loathe the application of RF frequency theory to the audio spectrum. I do have a question if you don't mind.
I promise this one, while off the topic of audio, it has RF relevance.
I used Cable modem for ISP service. I believe the Home, being 1984 construction is RG59U and the feed outside is RG6. My ISP service is a theoretical 1200 Mbps. I have considered coupling at the source and bring in an additional RG6 cable for speed tests. My highest test speed was 1192 Mbps.
I think this likely verifies that my older Coaxial spec isn't hurting me.
Would that match your thoughts on this ?
It's rare I get that great of a test speed but it is my max on a shared bandwidth with my neighborhood.
I'm surprised you're getting 1Gbps speed from RG59U. Check your upload speed as well. RG6 has superior BW especially for longer runs. However, if you're getting those kinds of speeds, why fix something that isn't broken?
@@Audioholics I would typically get 945 down on a good day but that was from a test from a PC on the other side of the router.
Router only has a 2.5 ethernet to the 2.5 on the cable modem.
The rest are 1G LAN.
The best numbers I got was with dual teamed Ethernet on that 1g LAN.
I would typically get 945 Mbps at best.
The best number was direct from the router
down 1192 Mbps
up 44.65 Mbps
It's 1984 it's gotta be RG59 U right ??
Hi Gene
Love your videos! I can`t se the problem in recommending cables. For the audiofiles that "believe" in cables strongly, Paul is making their life easier. When he says that the synergy is good with their produkts, that is what they will think, and relax, not having to chase for a "better" solution :)
For people that don`t care about very expensive cables will not run buying those cables.
My personal experience and belief is that cables are important. As I started building my hifi system I have had many different cables. It is very hard to say why and what changes in the sound, and I need to "listen to" a cable for a longer time in order to say if I like it or not.
Quite early in my quest for a great hifi system I "upgraded" to some Van Den Hule cables. I was proud of my new cables!!! But after a few months I realized that I listened less and less to music. Then one night I changed back to the old 50NOK (5USD) cables and the joy and energy in the music came back:) But it was easy then to hear that those cables lacked control, and had bad phase control. The stereo perspective was "messy"
So then I started looking for "good cables" that had It all. Good copper, seems to be the sound I like, and they don`t need to be very expensive. I don`t know why, but I have not had any cables with other metals for very long. Silver, gold and rhodium just not my cup of tea, and I can`t tell why......
Have you gone down that path and done a video on Speaker cable and interconnect impedence characteristics? Great video by the way. Awesome channel!
I think I talked about that topic in several videos but may do a dedicated one on it. thanks.
Gene,
I watch your channel when I want to learn something.
I watch Paul's channel when I am eating food and want to be briefly entertained.
And I complete agree, PS Audio makes some products that I too would be interested in playing with. However, I think Paul is 100% batshit crazy when he's talking about synergy in cables. I posted in his channel a long time ago, a sarcastic comment stating that I use my cables as tone controls. And here we are in 2020 and you made this video!
Glad to see you are feeling better. Keep doing what you do, we appreciate it!
I find the Hi end audio industry, similar to other luxury fields, full of secrecy and hyperbole claims. A lot of what the consumer pays for is not necessary to put it kindly. There is this implied exclusivity that is conveyed by brands, retailers, stores, reps. Cable Synergy to me is part of that. “You are not really getting the expected result of the component without also including this expensive snake oil in your purchase”. That is what it would take to enter the club.
My personal interest is the sound. I don’t care about the exotic wood, the jewelry style cables, luxurious expenses. I have found your channel to be exactly what I want to hear. I would be more interested in reviews of components that measure well but are more geared towards the regular guy with interest in quality audio. Speakers of a more modest size (less than 7ft tall 😅), subwoofers that can be moved by a single person, amps that cost less than a car and systems that can be put together by a family guy with a regular pay check.
Still I enjoy your content and reviewing all the equipment I will not ever buy.
I’ve watched a few of your videos now, great info and well presented.
I do have a couple of questions though.
You heavily rely on the audio precision analyser and your own knowledge to debunk these claims, however, have you ever considered that what people claim they can hear is something that is outside of your own measuring capabilities?
I’ve noticed whenever you talk about “cables make a difference” you never actually re create the scenario of which the “audiophile” claims to have heard these differences and actually measure sound coming from the speakers in a stereo playback setting. Is there such a piece of equipment that can measure intricate details of audio playback like soundstage and imaging, tone and texture etc?
This is not a cocky attempt to bash your theories, I’m genuinely curious to know if you have considered these things and if not, why?
Thanks Gene, another great video 👍🏻
@russellparker4568 I actually measured the electrical and acoustical responses at the speaker with generic 10awg zip cord and expensive exotics cables and the differences were negligible (0.1 to 0.001dB) which is indecenible to the ear and we'll within the realm of variances caused by the measurements themselves. You can move your head a few inches or your couch and yield acoustical differences of several dB or more by comparison.
Henry Ott's book has been one of my favorite reference books since decades! Thank you for keep sharing rationality and truth.
What about a shout-out between the belden 5t00up and the super expensive blue jeans cable iconoclast?
Over at AudioScienceReview Amir debunked a $2,300 set of AudioQuest cables. No special performance and failed when tested for shielding. If they're willing to rip people off with a BS $2,300 cable what won't they do.
Not sure if you've touched on this, but recently I saw a PS Audio video about a braided power cable making a night and day difference. Building amps myself, I understand how twisted pairs can be a benefit in certain parts of an amp, but I'm not sure the last few feet of power cable before you plug into an amp will matter? The cable running from your breaker box to all of your lights, receptacles, and so on are parallel conductors; not twisted. Thoughts?
You are the Boss! Love your down to earth videos. Be happy, be safe
A sane man in an insane world of audiophiles with more money then sense
The crux of the mater is do you like the sound?
Absolutely true Gene . Paul also claims that we can't measure everything we hear in cables. As you said cables should not act as a tone control.
So how else do you tone control if the amp has no tone controls. You have to use cables to do it.
@@aussie8114 nice one 😂
Tho to a small degree I do use some interconnects for tone. After all is said and done with my gear it gives just a slight tweek to put it a little more to my liking. I don't use hi end cables, just a touch above entry Transparent. I found the networked cable sounded a touch smoother on the top end than the same level of say a Tara cable, but really almost imperceivable.
Glad to see you healthy and back!
Objectively what you want is a flat SPL output from 20-20khz *and* a flat phase response. If you can measure that (with a calibrated microphone) you pretty much have the original sound as it was recorded.
Ok you need a DSP to do that but that's maybe a few hundred dollars.
But that begs the question - if you can achieve that with a $500 system (amp+speakers+sub) then is there any point is spending more?
It seems every few years Gene has to discuss the snake oil market of the audio industry.
been minutes lately
Great vid. I eagerly await the day when you can measure these cables and come back with results(test).
Gene, you're so passionate and knowledgeable about this. That begs the question, have you ever considered creating, marketing and selling Audioholics brand cables? I think many people would be interested in buying something that you'd be willing to put your name on.
I've had many offers from 3rd party cable companies to do just that. It may be something I consider in the future as I have an idea for an inexpensive easy method to make a cable that measures very well.
Thank you so much for explaining this crystal clear. I've been watching a few videos and reading forums lately, as I want to buy some audio equipment.... and I felt like this hole industry is full of myths and marketing BS. But it seems like the consumers defend the BS, and are proud buyers, instead of searching for the truth.
Thank god I found your videos!! Great job!!
I'm all about measurements. Because with measurements, sure you can argue, was it measured correctly, but other than that, measurements are measurements. At some point the excuses go away. That's the problem with abx tests. Audiophiles tend to not want to abx their setups, because they'll claim there's some special property about their unit, its burn in, its cable synergy, the fact that it must be kept on for hours before its ready to play from off, no matter the time off, etc., etc., etc. It's always some excuse, because I think deep down, there's an element of narcissism there. They tell themselves they believe these things because they're intelligent audiophiles, they've tested this $300 1ft usb cable and it's truly awe-inspiring the difference it makes. It's impossible for some of these people to put their egos, and themselves, aside for a moment and talk about science, i.e. testable hypotheses.
I too use high end cables mainly for aesthetic reasons, but also because they're decent quality cable relative to the free ones that come with the equipment .. my brand of choice is Gutwire from Canada, and for about $500-$1000 you get a VERY top notch cable, but I don't trust when PS Audio says they're seeing a synergy, its just marketing which is something Paul is very good at I've learned.
I’m in the middle of building my ultimate system. I can’t tell you how confusing this subject is. It’s probably the most disputed subject in audio.please tell me a brand you would recommend so I don’t get ripped off. I believe I saw a video of you praising kimber cables. I can only do this once in a lifetime. Please help. Thanks for your help 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Down votes by PS Audio, Audioquest and snake oil suckers...
Don't stop doing these videos please Gene, I keep an open mind and an eye on my wallet
Thanks
Measuring something in a lab where you look at a 0 and a 1 and experience what a person should do is a big difference. We decide on smells we like. I choose perfume for my nose not what it says on the packaging. I eat organic meat and always have a favorite brand. I don't like McDonald's but I like Burger King. What I see with my eyes I like. For a human, lab measurements are not indicative. Thankfully we use our 7 senses to decide what we like and don't like. I am a regular person who likes music and has invested some money in my sound system. I live in Europe in Sweden and I am not a fan of either you or anyone else you mention in your channel. What I oppose, however, is that you say that we humans cannot hear the difference between speaker cables, and that is exactly what we do. Specification on paper is one thing, but what we hear, feel and see is what determines what we feel. I have a tube amp and I happened to have the opportunity to listen to different speaker cables before I bought them, and I actually happened to choose Audioquest over many other brands BEFORE I heard the difference. On the papers according to specification I could never decide the folded cable I would have but by listening I could decide. When I buy a new TV I do not check the specification but I go to the store watching TV until I find the TV I like. The fact that PS audio has been able to hear and feel good for Audioquest I can understand because I chose my speaker cable in the same way. And what I hear you can never put a spec on or measure up. Two cables can have the same measurement values that they can sound completely different. No one has been able to prove to me through set why I hear more treble, headroom, stage, wide music more in one cable but not in the other. I just wanted to write to you here that we are not robotic and a 101010 is not the least interesting to us humans but we decide things by seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling.
Snake oil question... Are power conditioners snake oil... do they actually protect gear from lightning strikes and do power conditioners provide filtering that provides an audible difference or a measurable difference? Please provide this video with actual tests and test results.
Every time Gene says Wayne Kerr Analyser, the Brits in the audience hear something else and it will always be funny...
HA HA HA been keeping this one in my pocket for a while LOL
Wayne Kerr began as the Wayne Kerr Research Laboratories in London in 1946... They've been playing this double entendre for decades!
Thanks Gene, you certainly tell it how it is, which is always appreciated.
Hey Gene, I just watched an old video of Dillons audio in California. Did you ever take him up on his challenge? Is so what did you find?
Thanks for your time.
Don't even know who that is so...no.
Are you kidding me? Audiophile cables makes a huge difference!
In your wallet that is! I am glad to see you are doing better!
I guess you and I are on the same planet .
I think your strongest argument is your logical argument you started with. The measurement argument definitely is there, however I would argue that you should also offer to do a blind listen. And see if when cables are swapped you do or do not hear something. I trust that you would do it fairly honestly. Because I think their claim is even though they can’t measure it they hear it. OK I’m not sold on that, however I’m not dismissing it out of hand either. Just a thought. Love your presentations
Paul Roscelli so here is the thing. Human testing is pretty weak and insensitive all in all. We can measure things far finer electrically than we can hear.
So this measurement argument has a problem. What I refer to as a difference without a difference. The argument that we measure the wrong things can sometimes be true. But...a transfer function is a complete set of information that fully characterized everything in a system. If a cable makes any audible difference it must change the transfer function. It’s impossible for that not to be true.
In fact, that change in the transfer function will also contain many differences that are likely not audible. Truth be told, cables will very likely produce different transfer functions. That’s where these listening tests come in. Some reliably they can’t help us suss our where a difference exists that is also audible. But it’s always worth remembering, these tests don’t necessarily prove something isn’t audible. They simply fail to prove there is a difference. We then rely on repeating of the tests and other tests to triangulate the results and draw stronger conclusions.
Keep the great information coming Gene
Glad you’re calling them out, you’re the only one to do so.
For me, I purchased several cables from AudioQuest and Blue Jeans from a retailer that I could return them without issue. I tested them with my system in my room. Similar to how
Zero Fidelity does in his videos. I found that there was a difference in sound quality from cable to cable. Some of the differences were minor, others were more obvious. However that being said, I love PS Audio hardware, but I would not purchase $1000 cables.
I would not purchase nickel for AudioQuest cables
Did you do a blind test? If you didn't it's just confirmation bias.
Nothing bad to say to you Gene but I listen to music with my ears! My Brain is not stupid and a trickster! Measure your heart out buddy but my ears hear perfect and I hear the change in ALL CABLES and its not my BRAIN its perfect too!!! Your not the final word in this and the GOD of sound... Cables are not SNAKE OIL just some prices are! Best wishes from a guy with great hearing experience and a sound mind...Some things Science and Machines can't explain / well lots of things really and you need to ask GOD!
That's great. Enjoy and preserve your good hearing and placebo or not, if you perceive a difference, run with it and enjoy. God bless.
What analog XLR interconnect balanced cables do you recommend? I don't see Mogami offering these, unless you are using their microphone cables. Is that what you use and show in this video?
Gene great video, this topic is never tiring, i have a question, under what circumstances can a cable be made to act like a tone control ? If we add more capacitance or inductance to a cable on purpose will that change the tone or sound in any way ? Also do different materials used to make a cable make any difference in measurements silver vs ofc copper ?
Sanjay Salariya the resistance, inductance, and capacitance of a cable acts as an RLC filter. That is how it behaves like a tone control.
I recently did some modeling of this for Gene with a reactive load and I had to vary the values substantially to actually see a big change in the performance. Which really supports the notion that the difference the cable makes is too minuscule to matter. Further, no reason to believe an expensive cable would be any better in this regard.
For the experiment I plugged in actual numbers Gene measured of real cables. The cables that did the best were often the run of the mill cheap cables. The ones that did the worst were often expensive exotic cables. Though in reality, within the audio spectrum, we are talking like 1/5 of a dB or less in variation. Very little. I had to put in crazy values to show something approaching .5 dB or more.
Matthew Poes thankyou for the reply, in your opinion using silver or copper makes any difference ?? .. looking forward for the polk audio L800 review.
I have watched videos with Paul from PS Audio, and the way he interacts with people that disagree in the comments is less than professional. It is the reaction of someone that is not happy that their biases are being challenged. Audioquest is a snake oil purveyor, and PS Audio is happy to ally with them. I wouldn't touch a product from either company. Synergistic Research is in the same class of huckster.
I have little experience with Paul on the forums. I was just going off the personality he projects in his videos.
What about power strips with filters? Snake oil or not? I can't hear any difference in cables but I don't know why, but I hear a difference in my new power strip with filters for 99$!
Awesome video I agree 100% with you: above a certain price point audiophile cable are totally snake oil. I did a blind test once for speaker cables with very good equipment at an audiophile store many years ago: I could tell the difference between a 1€/m cable and a 50€/m cable but not between a 50€/m and a 1000€/m cable. The equipment for testing was not at the very top high end but very good, with Rogers LS3/5a speakers and I think an Acoustic Research pre with 2 high end monoblocks I don't remember which... Nobody in the room except for the store owner could tell the difference between the 50€/m cable and the fancy 1000€/m cable
If I had a spare £50000 to spend on cables, I wouldn’t. I’d spend it on better components! Cables do make a difference. You wouldn’t use doorbell cable to connect your 3kw heater to the mains outlet, would you? But, good cables are good enough. The stupid amount of extra money needed to purchase ‘high end’ cables for minute performance increases does not make good financial sense. I’m all in favour of blind testing. I insist upon it when auditioning new components. Believe me, and forgive the pun, can be a real eye opener! An excellent, thought provoking video. Keep them coming.
Your take on PS audio re: magical cable synergy with that brand of cables was an interesting one. Many moons ago I decided to compare my "WirePlanet" speakers cables with a 6 foot pair of "Monstrous" 12 gauge zip cable and BINGO, the whole sound stage collapsed, pin point imaging became a muddled mess of instruments and the speaker coherency (Thiels) disappeared.
At the same time, my other set of cables - "Bardas" - had a sweeter treble and a wee bit fuller lower mid-range than the "WirePlanet" cable (tone control), but both were very coherent.
There is something going on that yet cannot be measured. Similarly measuring power-amps can sound very different in tone, staging, imaging, slam, clean top end or grainy, etc. Things that to this day cannot be empirically measured.
On the other hand, mega thousand dollar cables are pure foolishness.
Best and cheers!
Question for you Gene (from the 🇬🇧)......hopefully one that hasn’t been asked before.
It’s about speaker cables 😳 I have a small sofa in between my speakers at one end (if you imagine a rectangular room) and my hifi rack against the side wall, is there a negative effect either though capacitance or inductance by running LH & RH speaker cables next to each other for 4 meters until they reach the point at which they separate at the first speaker? Also with equal length cables I have to somehow hide the extra length for one of the speakers, what’s the best method. Unfortunately all a product of fitting a stereo setup in a family environment. Real world problems hey 🤦🏼♂️
I found this out over 30 years ago when SIGNET was selling higher end cables. Nice cables but when I hooked them up and did A-B for my wife because of the placebo effect knowing which one that I had to have someone that didn’t and she has better hearing than I do and so much better today. She couldn’t hear any difference between the cables and this was on a Tandberg 3018 preamp and my Sony CDP-705esD back then. I came away with yes they are nicer built and look good! 😁
Gene I have Kimber cable 8tc just for the fun of it and comparing it to regular 10 gauge i only notice a slight change in sound listening around 0db on the receiver which is really loud. I am wondering on Chinese cables from eBay and Ali Express they sell the very same exact that looks like Kimber cable using 16-24 threads for much cheaper.
Thang I’ve actually bought some of these to see what they are. You have to be careful. Often very crappy connectors and the cable gauge was less than advertised. In one case I found a cable using aluminum instead of copper. I also found a scenario where the cable had a very thin strand with a lot of filler.
It’s not that there are no good chinese cables, but if you aren’t sure what you are getting, it can be a bit Wild West. I also got some very good raw cable stock from a chinese supplier at a very good price.
@@PoesAcoustics alot of cables put filler even u.s made ones it's for rca . But alot of Chinese ones that are expensive look and see made very high quality. Even u.s cable people who custom make they own they look exactly like the Chinese ones part for part.
Brilliant review. Being an engineer, I would say this is is reasonable review, based on reality.
Gene, I believe in synergy and cables make a difference. I do think you have a point on why PS Audio recommends Audioquest. Interesting that they also sell them on their website. Maybe there is a lot of extra profit to be had... Do you have to pay extra for the arrows on Audioquest cables?
Anyone who owns Audioquest or some other high-end cables, please send them to Gene so he can measure.
Sure. But whatever he do that won't solve the problem. Their cables are most probably audibly transparent. Still, Audiophools will claim hear night and day differences all the same.
@Mr Do Just look at anti-vaxxing. One doctor lied and made a false claim that vaccinations caused autism. Within the next 3 years Europe saw outbreaks. They caught on and started vaxxing again and it dropped back down. Now in America it resurfaced and look at our outbreaks. Evidence shows the doctor was wrong and that he based if off a few kids and changed the numbers to favor his theory. Does that stop people from believing vaccinations cause autism??? NOPE. Some people are just dumb and will believe myths in the face of evidence. It's literally no different here.
I own some Audioquest Forest interconnect, which costs $35 or so and their more expensive model, which was $50. Is it high-end enough for snake oil debunking experiment?
@@audiofun999 Since you can get much more reliable Mogami/Canare interconnects for 20-30$, I guess it already starts to be "snake oil". 😉
Send them to me, I have some stuff from a flying saucer that I would like to sell them.
I have one example where there is a case of cable synergy. I own a set of Sanders Sound Model 10c Speakers. These electrostats prefer a cable with very low capacitance and moderate resistance for the panel section. I use Audio Envy cables because his design goal is lower capacitance. They did make a difference over bog standard Litz type cables. The woofer section is just standard 12ga cord that I put into a fancy TechFlex type jacket.
Low capacitance is easy to achieve with regular zip cord cable by increasing conductor spacing. You're not describing synergy. A high capacitance cable will act like a tone control in your case. Synergy would imply a cable will make a system perform better than no cable at all.
@@Audioholics ah, I see what you mean. In my case, I thought synergy to mean that one cable performs better than another with a specific component.
I would love to see a similar feature video about audiophile capacitors. I can believe more easily that those components will make an improvement. I also wonder how many people have bespoke speaker cables AND electrolytes in the cross over network of their speakers. I think that before you buy expensive cables you should upgrade the cross overs in your speakers.
(I want to do that with my speakers, but I am satisfied with the sound I have as is. Is that bad? Sometimes I get the impression that you have to be unhappy with something to be taken seriously)
If I were you I wouldn't mess with your crossovers, they're very carefully engineered in tandem with the voice coils. To do that right, You'd need to have someone on staff in my opinion, you can just swap it out for something better. It's like they correct very specific anomalies that only that speaker system has, at least that's my impression from what I've learned.
Is it possible when some people claim to hear a difference in cables what they are hearing is the effects of either too high capacitance or inductance with their expensive cables as Gene has said some exotic cables actually measure poorly compared to Belden 10 AWG wire.
lee kumiega I think yes, it’s possible. In my system I found some cheaper cables to sound better than the more expensive ones.
Have you ever listen to MIT Magnum or Oracle speaker cables?
Does it make sense to buy expensive headphone cables ? I have spent thousands of $$$ on "pure silver" headphone cables but I haven't noticed any sound difference from stock cables.
How are they supposed to sound different?
Great video Gene, much appreciated ! In answer to your question, I don't believe in the synergy claim, it is just more marketing crap. Like most audio marketing, it is based on subjective bullshit, and that's o.k. if you like the products and want to spend your money on it, but I find it to be complete bullshit, and honestly, pretty disengenuous that these companies make claims without providing any objective proof to back up their claims. They're out for the sale, and hey, synergy sounds like good marketing. If they've tested products to be able to make the claims they make, great, show us the measurement results, or show us before and after measurements for the claimed improvements, but they don't and personally I dismiss such subjective claims as the bullshit that it is. Thanks again for the great videos, keep'm coming.
Gene ... you are incorrect. Totally incorrect. The best component to use with max effect are still cable lifters. All of a sudden the system will sound exactly like the performers are in front of you. Don’t waste money on cables. Get cable lifters. 😂🤣
😊For AudioQuest SureGrip500 vs SureGrip1000 all buyer had Questing too. May i know How Pure is the Copper ! & is it Pure copper or Purple copper 99% or more !! Spec Spec pls ! Is it Above 99% copper & 0.7% of Beryllium or just Beryllium M25 Alloy or Beryllium 25 or Beryllium 165 or !😊 & Whats Is Purple vs Red copper means?
can you put banana plugs on belden 1694A? Maybe do a tutorial on how to convert it into a speaker cable
Great video. 2 different speakers can measure the same in most ways, but sound completely different. Even though we have the measurements to verify it that still doesn't tell what they actually sound like. Many amplifiers can measure the same but sound completely different. I am not excusing the cable industry for not supplying specs. I am just pointing out why measurements can't tell the whole story. I am not sure we know the "whys" of everything yet. I think not long ago Gene didn't like turntables until someone set it up correctly:) Anyway, Thanks for all you do to educate us.
Gene said the cable is acting like a tone control. Does different mean better? Maybe, but probably not. Is the "difference" worth thousands of dollars? Absolutely not. The predatory business tactics exhibited by these cable companies is inexcusable. If they want to have fancy cables costing a few hundred fine, but thousands is predatory.
Assuming the subjective perception is subject to bias, how can you confirm that they sound different? Have you done it in at least blind test using statistically sufficinet amonut of retries? If so, then we can proceed from that point on
When did we start talking about bicycles? Is there a Schwinn cable?
Don't you get a period when you can send a bought item back? Buy the cables, measure and return. Easy right?
Great video, I agree 100 percent with your reasoning. Now can you do an expose on Mpingo wood Shunmook discs? I hear the finest audio systems employ these devices....
Very useful information here. Agree cable specs/ measurements should be available for consumers to consider and evaluate.
What good is a super conductor cable if you had one if your cables internally from the Binding Post to the crossover and from the crossover to the speaker no better than just standard generic cables, so you are correct in your logic and science, Cables and Chains are only as good as its weakest link.
Best cable I bought was phase wire from the DIY store. Pure solid copper strain. Less than €2,- per meter. Sounds just as good as my €10,- per meter Audioquest X2.