My best guess is that 1. D.I. can only support under 300hp, and they did not want to do D.I. plus Port injection. 2. The engine itself was having reliability issues at or above 300hp, and subaru did not want to have to spend a ton of money on forged internals, better oiling systems, etc. As for the CVT only, it is just plain sad :(
Your average Subaru owner is a hermit/artist/crystal worshiper in Vermont who drives it to the Co-op for monthly groceries. The enthusiast thing is history.
Most Subaru owners in my area are 80 years old plus and drive 5 under the speed limit! All WRX owners in my area are having way more fun driving than 99% of everyone else. Glad to be one of them.
Dude, most corporations are ran by tone deaf, self serving administrations. They hire “yes people” that will maximize their individual salaries. It’s endemic in the corporate world, not just car companies.
CPG organizations typically hire experts for product commercialization strategy. At least in my industry, if youre creating products that are tone deaf the organziation would be dead within the year. I dont know how or why something like this vehicle would be made. All i can assume is that Subaru is in really struggling to manufacture/commercialize the cars they actually WANT and are forced to work within increasingly limited capabilities due to the hole theyve dug themselves into.
The corporate world is known for taking anything unique and cool. Milking all the money out of it till it's dry and stale then tossing it away to go find the next new thing. There's no passion in it for any of them. Just a number on a bottom line.
this isn't the manufacturers this is the red tape and regulations they need to wade through to get the cars to market. We've essentially made investment into combustion engines pointless.
“Don’t you want faster lap times?” Bro I’m not taking a brand new car to any track just so you can void the warranty when it catches on fire because QC is in the toilet across the board
Nailed it lol. Outside of shit like the RS Porsches, i think the whole "track focused blah blah" shit that so many car manufacturers have been going after has been a horrific mistake. I dont want to taste my own balls every time i hit an expansion joint on the road because i have a "track focused suspension". I dont want to have to go over a 6" tall speed bump at a 45 degree angle at 0.57 mph because i might rip off a 3000 dollar splitter, etc etc etc.
Even so, some people are rich enough to track it and not care much about the warranty. But even they would rather the transmission not overheat after several laps. After all, they aren't racing anyone. They're just having fun.
Amen! Every time my WRX went in the wrong driveway I cried for my front bumper... and it was a 2014. When did the focus on track times start and how do we stop it? Somehow the Miata still gets it after all these years...
The original Subaru STis (up to 30-31 years old) are the best ones, of course! Something like a STi Type RA or STi Type R is just a blast! They gotta be the best in terms of fun to drive -- obviously they don't have the safety features, refinement, body stiffness or luxuries expected of modern cars (perhaps the lack of refinement and low weight from the floppy bodyshell is partly WHY they are so fun), and all the original GC8s and GM8s still had the weak Subaru 5-speed manual.
I hate that we're headed into bs cars like the 70s-80s. It's frustrating to see we just passed the "muscle car era" of our generation. Now, they all pump out bs ev's or this crap. Ffs... I'll be buying used going forward if this is the shit they're making going forward.
Brother let me tell you. You are so on point and this video makes me feel so old at the same time. I bought one of the first WRX's that landed here in the good old USA. August 2001. Had the car running 13.5@97 mph a few weeks later. After destroying the entire drive train in the regular WRX, the real STi came out here in the US. The 2004 wrx STi. It was the real deal. Thinner glass for weight reduction. Thin aluminum roof panel. Full sound deadening delete. No factory radio. If it wasnt needed, they deleted it. Factory Brembos came stock with ultra lightweight BBS wheels (17lbs per rim iirc) insane tires... Best car ever. Oh yeah... and all that for under $30k. Got mine $29k out the door. That car ran 13.0@104mph no mods.
@@randomsomeone1617 and the 2004 gen had some insane limited edition models on top of what was already very good. The s204 or spec-c were something like 3000lb? For a street legal 4wd sedan with 3 diffs... 90s to early 2000s produced so many fantastic cars.
Forgot to mention... they both the the 2002 wrx and the 2004 STi knew what they had coming i believe i picked up both from the dealership on a Wednesday and immediately drove them to New England Dragway to see what was what.
I've been waiting 13 years for a hybrid STI with 400+ horsepower. Had multiple WRX's and have said for a while Subaru has been a complete disappointment. Currently drive a KIA EV6 GT and 576 horsepower makes my old WRX feel like a Volkswagen Bus. Get your shit together Subaru.
Yeah got the bug eye STI, does 0-100kmh in 5.5sec. Though just drive my old BMW x5 now that I got for $4k, on the land rover chassis with the 5 series ontop - not much on the market at the moment.
@@JTheraos Did you watch the video? We never saw them in Formula One for a reason. It wasn't "too good" at all, it was a terrible and apocalyptic direction for the sport.
if it was at least the ZF 8 then it would be one thing owners wouldnt have to worry about when upping power. i dont get the insistence on CVTs for japanese car brands they are so shit
Supposedly, the Subaru 6-speed manual actually has the lower torque limit than the Subaru CVT (just check the power & torque rating on the CVT Levorg in Japan, it's higher than any US manual WRX variant). So it's unfair to completely blame the CVT if it holds more torque than the even weaker Subaru 6-speed. Obviously Subaru only use these two in-house transmissions because they are cheap and keep their transmission factories ticking over! The Aisin 6-speed from the old Subaru STi, which its bigger and stronger gears, would obviously cost Subaru more than the in-house 6-speed.
@@pawn3d167 Given Subaru's links to Toyotas, you'd think a variant of the Aisin 8-speed from the Lexus IS would be more likely if Subaru were to move away from their in-house transmissions?
There was a time when the WRX STI was faster than the Mustang GT, and a genuine competitor against the M3 and Cayman S on track and in a straight line. Crazy how far Subaru has fallen
@@benitoloco899 hey CVT is Highly tunable but most people are not smart enough with computers to figure this out how do you think the program the gear ratios in a CVT if it continually variable how does the car know what band to go into you can change those bands
@@beatyoubeachyt8303 Only Asians can work with CVTs, if it's in the USA expect incompetence and overcharging for a very simple transmission that they refuse to learn
I heard someone speculate that the new WRX is nerfed because Toyota owns 20% of Subaru and doesn't want internal competition with their GR Corolla. It sucks what has become of the STI but that explanation at least makes logical sense.
Yeah similar to what happened to the Evo. Nissan owned 25% of the company and discontinued everything good about mitsubishi and forced them to use their Nissan platforms
I think they just can't reliably push that much power out of this new engine + Subaru as a small company with a handful of models is at the mercy of CAFE and Subaru can't put out a car that does 18MPG combined like the VA STI anymore.
@@James_Buchanan_Electrical_82 Logical? And the owners of the rest of the 80% don't care about losing profits while a competitor they have no stake in takes that money?
Nope. Does any luxury or performance brand make just one popular model? They have the parts and engineering to make one version great, so they duplicate it with alterations. The logical answer is to make many popular models. My left leg is stronger than my right leg, so I'm going to smash my left toe, to even out. yeah. ..... Someone explain how partnerships work to these ones? Should we partner up and nerf each other!?!!!???!?!!!
While I agree, Subaru, along with most JDM automakers are screwing the pooch these days, the VB WRX gets way more hate than it deserves. I bought a 24 WRX new for $31k. That’s $20k less than the GR corolla, Type R Civic, Type S Integra, etc. The horsepower is underrated from the factory. It’s as fast, if not faster, than an STI from any of the previous generations, stock-for-stock. A Cobb Accessport/tune, intake, exhaust, coilovers, and good tires will have you around $35k total spend and you will be beating the stock competition with a $15k savings… just saying. They’re not trash.
Its been pretty obvious Subaru doesn't care about WRX anymore when they made this current generation look like a Pontiac Aztec + Dodge Caliber lovechild. Hey Subaru, try a CVT front-wheel drive BRZ to drive away your last few enthusiasts and just be done with it....
I had a 2020 WRX. These cars aren't fast, but they are fun in the corners. At first you think, this car is very quick, but within a couple weeks, the excitement dissipates. I definitely wouldn't want an automatic version. If they are going to make an STI, it should pop way more than a regular WRX. Probably 350-400 hp
I am really didnt understand too, here in japan we have a lot of old people driving these boring subarus with STI badges, all of then is CVT. When they are asked about that, they said that they choose these veicules due AWD and and better and more complete safe features (EyeSight). Talking about normal people on a country that you didnt have much space and roads that is smaler. We have some status when get a manual license here and we have people that didnt have manual license and trying to be look like (this is insane between youngers). And this works by the same for motobikes. But when you have the same company doing the oposite with BRZ is really strange... And they recently announced a limited edition BRZ with gold brembos (for curiosity, Toyota had the same with last previous GT86 with big red brembos and special color "British Racing Green" so the purple color choiche is a perfect countermatch). Anniversary Edition Version 7 STI owner here.
Interesting! I have a 2001 bug eye WRX STI, rally blue with gold rims, made in Japan. Going to keep it and never sell it. Dont see why, I just like looking at it and dont drive it that much anymore but just look after it as I always do. Had it for like 12 years now, even kept it when I was overseas for two years.
@@MervtheWarlord I understand perfectely your caution, we want to keep then and not drive often (in my city, a normal day is a really chaotic even for a normal car imagine an STI...). i really have a nice story with theses Subarus and with my actual one i have another amazing history too! Mine is silver (even all of us wants a blue one, i discovered that only 88 are made in silver), imaculated one (exterior and interior [and still have original Kenwood CD and MD readers) and it have that same plataform and engine as S202 (is a previous and base model that they used). I want to keep it at maximum because my baby will born in this year and i want to enjoy together (i already have a WRC STI baby toy car lol) And this is my second bugeye.
@@川村エンヒケ well done, yes I had the WRX before, and I found the 5 speed better for traffic. The 6 speed is useless in traffic and simply too much work when in traffic! I have a 2003 ish BMW x5 and that is a nice car to drive when it is busy and need to go somewhere
@@nightreapers3425 thats like basically the normal price you are going to pay for a car when financing it depending on how much money you put down. Welcome to the future.
@@ItzzShazey That’s what was going to make me trade it in cause of the payment. But like you say for anything else now days what I’d put down. It’s gonna be near it so I’m gonna just suck it up and build the vb Wrx into a street rally car
I hate CVT transmissions. I got a 2021 Toyota CHR for my wife and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the car but if you’re stopped at a red light and you wanna try to accelerate a little bit quickly, the transmission prevents you from doing it. it feels like when I was learning how to drive stick and I wasn’t confident enough to take my foot off of the clutch pedal fast
Drove an ASEAN spec Yaris before and my god, the throttle lag and the CVT's sluggishness is horrendous, legitimately took almost 2 seconds to respond to larger throttle inputs.
The craziest part is that even a higher percentage of WRX owners chose manual than owners of the Supra (example used in the video) and they STILL decided to move forward with this. "According to Subaru, it's has been a fruitful year for manual transmission enthusiasts, with the brand reporting an 83% take rate for the six-speed stick WRX for 2024 model year vehicles has been confirmed by Car and Driver. That means only 17% of WRX buyers have opted for the continuously variable transmission." The math isn't math-ing. It's the same model that 83% of your buyers got the manual for that you made a special edition with a shitty "upgraded" CVT. If there was ever a way to let us know that you really don't care, Subaru found it. Textbook case of adding insult to injury. - Disappointed VB WRX (6MT) Owner
I have the obvious answer in easy to read steps: 1.Gather sales data for ALL models 2.Feed that data to ChatGPT 3.Have an AI designed car made with 0 effort from your end 4.Cash that check babyyyy
I had a total of 5 WRX and 1 STI and One outback and one Forester 2.5. I've always been a die-hard fan but progressively over the years I came to realize that the people that run Subaru are total idiots disconnected from their customer base and acutely obsessed with pushing cars to soccer moms and dads. The current generation of WRX made me snap out of it. After years of telling myself, ah, they made it more ugly but at least it drives well, I could not get over the Camry look of the new gen and the lack of innovation. I would love to go into one of those board meetings and ask them questions.
Tbh it makes sense they got rid of manuals in the commuter cars. They sell horrendously. They should realize(especially after the Supra), that isn’t true for performance cars. The manuals also hold there values wayyyy more. Just look at the values old Ferraris auto vs manual if you want to see how ridiculous the price differences can be.
Something that's not talked about enough: Subaru's largest stakeholder is Toyota (they own 20% of the company), and if I was a member on the board at Toyota, I wouldn't want anything owned by Toyota undercutting the GR Corolla/Yaris.
This, This right here is the reason. I'm a VB wrx owner and the car is more than capable of over 300 with a few tweaks meaning that they severely detuned the car either to meet emissions or because Toyota didn't want it to compete with GR corolla sales.
@@lucasokeefe7935what’s crazy is I’ve known about Toyota having a stake in Subaru since like 2017 and since then I’ve always though they owned 40% of Subaru lol. We must find the true number in this comment thread
As a one time Subaru enthusiast who owned an Impreza, a Cross Trek, WRX, and a BRZ all at once, I didn’t let my enthusiasm for the brand get in the way of experiencing better cars. I eventually replaced my Cross Trek with a Mazda CX 30 turbo. Because Subaru just could not bring themselves to create a compact SUV with more than 182 hp. I don’t need something the size of an outback or a Forrester. And in Subaru‘s lineup if you want even a modicum of power, you have to jump into one of those massive grocery getters. I replaced my WRX with a Type R. As a one time hater of the Type R I eventually allowed the car enthusiast in me to shine as opposed to being a brand loyalist. Simply put the type R was a better car through and through than anything that Subaru had on offer. And I eventually traded in my BRZ for Miata. This was less a slight against Subaru and more the simple fact that even though the BRZ is a great car the Miata is a completely different driving experience. And now, as a car enthusiast that used to have a garage full of Subarus , I don’t see myself buying any of their cars anytime in the future. From awful head unit and what is likely the industry worst touchscreen available in a modern car today, to a lack of performance and power in almost every single one of the cars that they have on offer, Subaru has become nothing more than overpriced, cheaply made chassis with a good all-wheel-drive system. And although I won’t criticize the quality of their all-wheel-drive system, it’s about the only thing that the brand has in comparison to their competition that is any good.
Rocked a '02 WRX bugeye for many years and it was the most fun ever! Anytime something broke, I'd upgrade, and it wasn't long before that thing was an absolute beast (maybe a bit much for street use honestly). Sometime around 2014 I was looking to get a new WRX or STI, and the first thing I did was pop the hood...that's when the disappointment set in. That awesome engine I was so familar with was replaced with a bunch of rather cheap looking plastic bits. I was like, 'what the hell is that!?' oh that's the new platform. Hunh!? When did the WRX cease being the awesome rally car that regular folks could enjoy! Was really hoping that Subaru would get back to their roots in WRC and give the public what we've been asking for over the last two decades.
I'd much rather buy a manual Mazda 3 at this point. I bought a CVT gen 5 Impreza after having a Chevy Cruze and it's been a sore disappointment. I miss having a turbo...
I've seen one new Z and 2 LUCIDs in my area. Ever. That actually is kind of crazy because I see like 4 cybertruks a week, about 5 Supras, and in the last several months 1 new NSX.
I honestly don't see why it flopped so hard, it's a really nice looking and performing car that's available in auto or manual now. Guess the release killed it before it could really run.
@@cloudyviewthe regular WRX sold in Japan isn't available with a manual for some reason, even though all WRXs are built in Japan 🤷, I just didn't expect the limited edition S version to also not have a manual transmission.
The fact my Focus RS came with 350hp BEFORE I tuned it, is sad. I was expecting more after the STi hiatus but oh well. I have the car I love in my garage🤷🏾
Man I was all hyped up to pick up a WRX recently after watching tons of RUclips videos and so forth. Once I got behind the wheel of one, I was sorely disappointed. It didn't live up to the hype in any way. I already own a Subaru Outback Wilderness, which is a station wagon, and I felt that the Outback was faster off the line than the freaking WRX. The WRX also is way too loud in the interior. There is a low engine rumble always present in the interior that I found to be annoying and distracting. It's at a certain frequency/pitch that you can't even have a normal volume conversation with someone or really even enjoy the dang radio in the car. There were fit and finish issues... the freaking hood was wobbling in the wind when I took it up to highway speeds. Finally, premium fuel only? What is that about? $40k plus for an optioned WRX is a very hard-sell for me. No thank you.
Premium gas in any turbocharged vehicle is recommended and required for most performance engines regardless of NA or FI. My jeep renegade with the abarth engine uses premium. My Saab used premium. My old NA Cadillac used premium. My golf used premium.
The Outback has a turbo engine... faster than the WRX on regular gas. Sad really. Regarding my Outback, the wife is the one driving it mostly. I was going to trade it in for the WRX and get her something else, but there's no way I was going to go down to an objectively worse vehicle for roughly the same price. The WRX has no utility value, so I definitely expected it to make up for it in the "fun factor" like my previous Audi, and I also expected higher build quality all around. I wanted something that would make me smile whenever I put my foot down. That wasn't the case unfortunately. After looking at some other cars, I ended up buying a 24 ZR2 Colorado for my personal vehicle and kept the wife in the Outback. The truck also has a turbo 4 and uses regular gas. It's punchy enough and has the fun factor in other ways. An all around much better choice for fun combined with function. There seems to be something like a cult following for the WRX. People get very defensive of any criticism of the car when any new buyer of one mentions how disappointing it is compared to almost any other option at the same price point.
I now study to become a Product Owner and I can tell you, there are a LOT of idiots who work as PO's and they have absolutely no idea what they are doing, thus we have CVT in STI...
I agree with you 100%, but part of the problem is that the people buying new cars are not the enthusiasts, for the most part. New cars are so expensive, especially these days, that people who buy them aren't as likely to spend big money on top of that to modify the car, which also hurts the resale value in most cases. The type of person who buys a new car is the type who wants something pristine and cushy. That's why manual transmissions are dying, and that's why car companies keep slapping enthusiasts in the face.
Great comment. We’re (enthusiasts) upset that they’re not building great cars that we can buy second hand but of course they’re not going to build cars for the second hand market. The problem is that new cars are simply too expensive. If you can only afford one car you can’t really justify a sports car because of the compromises that come along with it unless you’re young and single. You’re right that new sports cars are too big of a financial commitment to actually use them as intended and to modify.
Manuals are dying because of single-parent households and smartphones. Dad used to teach kids how to drive a stick. Fewer dads around now. And most people text while they drive. Hard to do while shifting.
I have a 17 wrx and regret not buying the STI only because I’ve blown up spider gears twice. This is a disgrace. David you should make a video on the downfall of out tuner car world. How we are supposed to buy an EV and how having another country try do the dirty work is “green”
EVs are a fad and already are dying out as normies are realizing they are inefficient and arguably worse for the environment than ICE cars. We have the technology to basically run internal combustion engines on water (hydrogen), yet everyone's focused on lithium and electric for some reason 🙄
Again: the real goal is to eliminate vehicle ownership and force everyone into smart cities. You can write a thank you letter to: The UN The WEF Theil Elon Vance
MrSubaru1387 makes a great point on his video on the topic. Subaru has earned a reputation in the car community for headgaskets failures and reliability issues. Even though it has been long resolved, the stigma still remains and affects many of their biggest sellers/mainstream cars. I think it's true that Subaru has sort of lost interest in selling the WRX and performance cars because it seems like it comes back to bite them in the ass. They make more money selling Outback, Crosstrek and Foresters to Hikers and Nanna's than they do selling performance cars. I mean considering they only sell maybe 30k WRX and 3k BRZ's a year is not very sustainable. The rally market helped them garner attention and the WRX did what it was supposed to do. Now, like MrSubaru1387 said, they are probably tired of people beating the snot out of their WRX's then suing them when they decline warranty coverage. All people say anyways is how dissapointing it is and how ugly they are, I agree with the idea that they are just done and want to be done with the performance car sector of their brand. Just my two cents.
My mom just recently bought a new Outback. I told her to take it to the shop because it had some serious engine noise that I mistook as valve tick... Turns out the exhaust manifold was missing two bolts from the factory! smh...
A good cvt would be like how they were before the Prius. Holding constant rpm during acceleration as opposed to fake slushy gear changes that literally no one likes.
@4V3N1 Most new CVTs hold the ideal rpm when you put your foot down and only mimic gear changes when driving normally. Subaru's CVT does this and is why it's faster than the manual. I just wish Subaru understood enthusiasts are more interested in engagement and fun factor than speed and comfort.
Speaking of Manual.. I work at a port.. we drive a variety of cars, trucks, suv's.. I mostly drive Mercedes, but sometimes we have to drive other models, like Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, Buick.. ect. We drove some Hyundai's a bit ago, and came to a handful of the Elantra N's.. and they where the manual.. We have 8-9 drivers on our van.. and only two of us, Myself, 40 and one other, who is 61, knew how to drive them.. Its crazy..
I feel enthusiasts have fell into that as well, because automatic is quicker and more "convenient", they're in it for convenience and wins on a street not really driver engagement or learning a new skill.
Based on my experience with MT, AT, DSG, and CVT, I'm only slightly biased toward a good manual or automatic for everyday driving / commuting. Maybe DSG would be at the bottom of the list for its lack of smoothness (10 yrs ago experience). For a performance /enthusiast vehicle however, CVT is actually a turn-off. Some manufacturers miss the fact that 'driver engagement' cannot be measured by lap times, and there is a thin grey line between too much and too little. There is a difference between DRIVERS and COMMUTERS. Don't mix them up.
My dad told me when I was kid, in the late 80’s, manual transmission was going to be a thing of the past. He’s a hot rod restorer. I was…a huge Subaru fan 😢
People can call me crazy, I considered a Subaru STI, but I saw what Hyundai is doing with their N lineup and I went for that instead. They really catered to the hatch enthusiasts and now have their new sedans too.
@@finch404 yeah they saw the gap so much they axed their hot hatch line in the US (Veloster). Maybe they’ll make an Elantra N hatchback. I’d kill for them to import the i20 N into the US but I doubt that’ll happen since us Americans only seem to want big fucking SUVs and trucks
i loved my 15 veloster turbo i wanted an N but when i was looking for a new car they had JUST come out and i wont buy a car that just came out i also wanted a stinger but those were a bit too pricey so i got my dream car a 2014 mustang GT. would love another 1.6T car as a project or daily or both
Subaru is dead. Mitsubishi is dead. Nissan is half dead. Toyota is hanging on. Honda is about to fall. Germans are slowly dying. Dont get me started on usa. Why? Because they all have no balls and let the epa bend them over with crybaby weather talk. Pathetic.
Dodge is deadest of them all. The Vipers and Challengers being replaced by the Duracell equipped Charger is humiliating to the brand and Dodge will be filed away into oblivion like so many other American car divisions. Acura and the second gen NSX lost it's soul and purity of what a sports car needs to be. Lotus is now a complete laughingstock with the garbage computer "tech" coming from them. The new Mustang and its fagcentric ipad dash display..... its all so pathetic. Even Porsche is walking on VERY thin ice right now - literally.
I just can never get past all the chunky ugly plastic on the new WRX (and most other new vehicles, but especially the WRX). The weird wheel arches, the Honda looking small taillights and center garnish, and the god awful "diffusers" or whatever they're calling the poopy diaper looking chunky black plastic on the back bumper. Stop trying to be different for the sake of it. >__
You know what's crazier? The STI's 6-speed transmission is legendarily good. It takes a ton of power with no issues, and it was co-developed with Porsche. Subaru has literally no need to develop anything new, just use what they already have.
For those of you unaware, the JDM WRX S4 has been CVT only since the VA generation. If you wanted a manual WRX in Japan, your only option was to buy the STI model. Now that the STI has been killed off, Subaru Japan still won't sell a manual WRX in Japan. Despite all the "STI" trim packages they keep releasing, they still refuse to offer any of them in manual, and therefore this S210 edition is much the same. Any why should we care anyway? This limited edition run is exclusive to the Japanese market and Subaru isn't going to make a manual version to appease foreign fans that aren't even going to be able to buy it anyways.
14 дней назад+5
The Subaru brand now just screams “Rainbow Crowd”, and they really could care less about a dorky WRX.
I saw a 2025 STI on the road in Boca Raton Florida last week. My friend argued with me for over a half an hour that it was actually a Honda Civic because the rear looks exactly like the last gen Honda Civic.😂
Clearly, times have changed. I bought my 2018 STI because of the experience. Compared to my 2015 WRX the STI had the rumbling sound, no rev hang, and so on. Subaru has been telling us for years that they are done with us. The EJ engine had reliability issues, but we kept buying the car for that wonderful driving experience. I'm happy that I drove it when I could. Even with low power if it were insanely light, I might consider buying it.
The GR series from toyota is a very small portion of their sales. However its the most important. Its their soul. Its their mission statement. Its what people idolize when buying a Camry or Tacoma. Thats why its important to get it right. Even tho its low production.
@@ogmechsftw it's stupid how so many people are willing to pay so much money for pick-up trucks, too many consumers have absolutely lost their marbles in the last 10-15 years.
They clearly aren't targeting actual performance enthusiasts. They're targeting Joe Schmo who goes in to buy a WRX but sees this car and thinks, "Oh that's bad ass," based only on the fact they stuck a wing, some Recaros and Brembos on it.
I've worked at big companies, and can confirm that incompetence floats. Management fills with peoples whose profession is self promotion, but they are useless at the companies main product.
Not to 2025 emissions regulations, although by all means the Focus RS made ~355hp from that same basic 2.3 engine too while complying with 2015-2017 emissions (albeit boost limited in low gears for whatever reason).
The STI didn't really change since the 90's. They peaked in 2006 with the Hawkeye widetrack. It's no wonder why companies go into liquidation when they don't have any appeal
The enthusiast problem is they think why too much of their importance. They are a tiny portion of an industry that never finds them a highly profitable element. History repeatedly makes it clear that they are problem and not a solution to anything.
The reason it's a limited run is because it's an "S" car, but like... the old S209 made 45 more goddamn horsepower and had an indestructible 6 speed manual drive train. The WHOLE POINT of an STI to me is that it's an AWD car you can actually beat on, the transmission and drivetrain will take it. That CVT? No chance that's as tough. Put it on track, get the fluid hot, does it even last as long as those fancy new brakes before it overheats? Just goofy ass bullshit through and through.
Also, the Japanese spec S cars ever since the S202 have at least 316 hp and rev to 8000 rpm, with the engine rotating assembly being balanced to a tighter tolerance than a regular STI and has a quicker spooling turbo than a regular STI. This S210 is a massive downgrade.
It seems like it’s not just car companies. There’s a growing gap between corporate and what people actually want. It’s like they’re deciding what we want and then blaming us for not buying the product. Feedback is useless because only corporations know what’s best for be people apparently
I'm also sort of confused why they went with what appears to be an aftermarket wing instead of using a real STI wing. Surely they were capable of making their own spoiler.
I work for a Subaru Dealership, and I can tell you that 90% of the WRX we sell are stick shifts. WRX buyers hate the CTV. At this point, I believe there's a conspiracy against the automobile industry.
You know what sports car has a 100% manual take-rate and the manufacturer just can't sell enough of? The Civic Type R. If a manufacturer just focuses, they'll waste less money developing products that dilute a brand, and end up with a better product that appeals to the intended audience. Imagine if the Z was manual only. How much more money could've been diverted from the developing the hardware, trim parts, programming, marketing etc. of the 9AT and instead made the base car better? (Lighter weight? More power? Higher rigidity? Who knows?) Make the single best version and sell it to the core audience first. Let that recoup some of the cost, then worry about expanding accesibility through an AT. The GRC's strategy in this respect was genius. There probably would've been money on the table for an STI had Subaru just made the WRX manual-only to start with.
It's so weird to me, too, as when you go to subaru events like Boxerfest you can see there is a ton of enthusiasm for the WRX and STI platform. I don't get why they want to kill it off like they are.
All I gotta say is even tho the si and type rs aren’t what they used to be 20-30 years ago at least honda understands how the car should feel and drive. And since 2006 si’s never had less than 198hp to this day
If they were to bring back wagon body, I would love that. I would buy one. I regret not getting one before they discontinued the body style after 2014. But I also didn't know any better at that time. I do consider myself lucky getting my hands on a 23 Crostrek 6MT right before they ditched the manual in that. And frankly it's been a really fun car. Sure wish they put the FA20 or FA24 in it. *Nudge nudge* Like that will ever happen. Here's another idea for STi. Develop an STi Forester, STi Crosstrek, STi BRZ alongside the WRX. No CVT's or SPT's. They've done Foresters in the past and to my new knowledge they actually did a Crosstrek Ts in 2016 (though it ended up being the hybrid so I was less excited). But the idea of designing great enthusiasts cars is right there in front of them, they just need to get the formula right and take the risk. Another issue is car manufacturers rather not take big risks on small groups but rather cookie cutter relatively the same vehicle for easy guaranteed revenue. I also would agree that the decline of Mitsubishi has made Subaru very complacent in the competitive racing area. Fortunately we still have Vermont Sports Car treating the WRX right. Subaru really killed their "Legacy" big time with this one. A really big let down.
The STi was available in the states from 04 to 20, ONLY AS A MANUAL. That's part of what made it such a standout car. You couldn't get an auto. Subaru was committed to manuals. 2 years ago I traded my 2011 STi wagon for a manual supra, and have been very pleased with it. I do miss the awd, and having much more room in the STi, but the supra is so much more fun.
Car companies are SO LOST when it comes to market appeal -vs- profit obsession, they ultimately end up losing at both. Its so sad its hysterical, but we all lose nonetheless. This car is a rolling embarrassment.
I think you said it best right at the beginning; "They might as well not even bother...". If they're only making 500, don't bother... If they won't give it a manual, don't bother... If they can't even give it more HP than the previous STI, don't bother... How do decision-makers like this keep their jobs?
Okay seriously somebody help me understand.
It’s ok they are only making 500 of them and they are all staying in Japan. They only made it for fun for people who really love Subaru.
My best guess is that 1. D.I. can only support under 300hp, and they did not want to do D.I. plus Port injection. 2. The engine itself was having reliability issues at or above 300hp, and subaru did not want to have to spend a ton of money on forged internals, better oiling systems, etc. As for the CVT only, it is just plain sad :(
Dude.... I really can't believe it's auto 😓
Guess ill pick one up in 25 years!
They're limiting it to 500 because only 500 people are gonna want this thing
☠️☠️☠️
God damnit 😂
They know it's not going to sell like hotcakes.
They probably will have some on the lots still
That’s optimistic..
no basket handle spoiler 👎🏽
no manual transmission 👎🏽
less than 300bhp in 2025 👎🏽
296bhp is still about 300hp. It’s not a big difference
even my 26 years old Legacy has more HP from the factory and it is a manual with twin turbo...
@@skippylegrandgourou2069you mean twin-scroll, right?
@@original__gmebvy not the point, when its assumed a newer more expensive car will be an improved version of itself not down graded
@@deej628 No it is an OEM twin turbo setup, i have a Subaru B4 RSK EJ208 twin turbo. The twin scroll is the forth gen Legacy
going CVT is crazy considering that 83% of WRXs sold in 2024 were manual.
Which just proves that most people buying them are enthusiasts....
I was going to make this point as well. Picked up a 24 WRX Premium with the manual. Fun daily and happy with it so far.
@REDNECKHUNTER75 awesome dude, WRXs are sick!
Your average Subaru owner is a hermit/artist/crystal worshiper in Vermont who drives it to the Co-op for monthly groceries. The enthusiast thing is history.
I think your confusing them with Jeepers lol
Most Subaru owners in my area are 80 years old plus and drive 5 under the speed limit! All WRX owners in my area are having way more fun driving than 99% of everyone else. Glad to be one of them.
What the lack of the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution does to a mf
honestly though
lol
It really is a sad sight to see! 🤣
Dude, most corporations are ran by tone deaf, self serving administrations. They hire “yes people” that will maximize their individual salaries. It’s endemic in the corporate world, not just car companies.
CPG organizations typically hire experts for product commercialization strategy. At least in my industry, if youre creating products that are tone deaf the organziation would be dead within the year. I dont know how or why something like this vehicle would be made. All i can assume is that Subaru is in really struggling to manufacture/commercialize the cars they actually WANT and are forced to work within increasingly limited capabilities due to the hole theyve dug themselves into.
The corporate world is known for taking anything unique and cool. Milking all the money out of it till it's dry and stale then tossing it away to go find the next new thing. There's no passion in it for any of them. Just a number on a bottom line.
Shhhhh! They will hear you
this isn't the manufacturers this is the red tape and regulations they need to wade through to get the cars to market. We've essentially made investment into combustion engines pointless.
“Don’t you want faster lap times?” Bro I’m not taking a brand new car to any track just so you can void the warranty when it catches on fire because QC is in the toilet across the board
Nailed it lol.
Outside of shit like the RS Porsches, i think the whole "track focused blah blah" shit that so many car manufacturers have been going after has been a horrific mistake. I dont want to taste my own balls every time i hit an expansion joint on the road because i have a "track focused suspension". I dont want to have to go over a 6" tall speed bump at a 45 degree angle at 0.57 mph because i might rip off a 3000 dollar splitter, etc etc etc.
@@kutarksounds like you want a GT, not a sports car.
Even so, some people are rich enough to track it and not care much about the warranty. But even they would rather the transmission not overheat after several laps. After all, they aren't racing anyone. They're just having fun.
@@Treaxvoursports car =/= track car
Amen! Every time my WRX went in the wrong driveway I cried for my front bumper... and it was a 2014. When did the focus on track times start and how do we stop it?
Somehow the Miata still gets it after all these years...
I am 1000% more excited to see a 15-20 year old STI than the new one.
Lesbian CVTs
Exciting 100. Reliable -100
The original Subaru STis (up to 30-31 years old) are the best ones, of course! Something like a STi Type RA or STi Type R is just a blast!
They gotta be the best in terms of fun to drive -- obviously they don't have the safety features, refinement, body stiffness or luxuries expected of modern cars (perhaps the lack of refinement and low weight from the floppy bodyshell is partly WHY they are so fun), and all the original GC8s and GM8s still had the weak Subaru 5-speed manual.
Their engines blow. C'mon man. They look cool but that's about it. They are built no better than a Chrysler @@TassieLorenzo
same
Subaru was the fastest “you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain” I’ve ever seen
when was it ever the fastest ?????????? they are all trash
@@Rob-qs3xx read it again
@@zank1101 preach. to be fair, I read it correctly and it took them a good 20ish years to become the villain
I hate that we're headed into bs cars like the 70s-80s. It's frustrating to see we just passed the "muscle car era" of our generation. Now, they all pump out bs ev's or this crap. Ffs... I'll be buying used going forward if this is the shit they're making going forward.
I think that it was Mitsubishi with the eclipse crossover.
Brother let me tell you. You are so on point and this video makes me feel so old at the same time.
I bought one of the first WRX's that landed here in the good old USA.
August 2001. Had the car running 13.5@97 mph a few weeks later.
After destroying the entire drive train in the regular WRX, the real STi came out here in the US. The 2004 wrx STi.
It was the real deal. Thinner glass for weight reduction. Thin aluminum roof panel. Full sound deadening delete. No factory radio.
If it wasnt needed, they deleted it.
Factory Brembos came stock with ultra lightweight BBS wheels (17lbs per rim iirc) insane tires...
Best car ever.
Oh yeah... and all that for under $30k. Got mine $29k out the door.
That car ran 13.0@104mph no mods.
Oh yeah...btw it was a 6 speed with a variable center differential. Driver controlled adjustable bias.
@@randomsomeone1617 and the 2004 gen had some insane limited edition models on top of what was already very good. The s204 or spec-c were something like 3000lb? For a street legal 4wd sedan with 3 diffs... 90s to early 2000s produced so many fantastic cars.
Forgot to mention... they both the the 2002 wrx and the 2004 STi knew what they had coming i believe i picked up both from the dealership on a Wednesday and immediately drove them to New England Dragway to see what was what.
I've been waiting 13 years for a hybrid STI with 400+ horsepower. Had multiple WRX's and have said for a while Subaru has been a complete disappointment. Currently drive a KIA EV6 GT and 576 horsepower makes my old WRX feel like a Volkswagen Bus. Get your shit together Subaru.
Yeah got the bug eye STI, does 0-100kmh in 5.5sec. Though just drive my old BMW x5 now that I got for $4k, on the land rover chassis with the 5 series ontop - not much on the market at the moment.
Subaru backwards spells ur a bus
Using a CVT should make any "performance" advertising illegal lol
Werent cvts banned from f1 for being too good?
technically cvt should be faster, but the current cvt is a cheap knock off insult to the Williams F1 cvt
@johnornelas yes. People who blindly hate on all CVTs are stupid as hell. Especially this guy who thinks CVTs aren't capable of high performance.
@@johnornelassure were. If you have never been in a high horsepower car with a cvt you have no idea what fun you're missing. Grrrreaaat acceleration
@@JTheraos Did you watch the video? We never saw them in Formula One for a reason. It wasn't "too good" at all, it was a terrible and apocalyptic direction for the sport.
it has less than 300hp because that's about the stupid CVT can take
They can’t even take that.. look at how many Nissan’s have cvt issues with less power. They had recalls out the ass
if it was at least the ZF 8 then it would be one thing owners wouldnt have to worry about when upping power. i dont get the insistence on CVTs for japanese car brands they are so shit
Supposedly, the Subaru 6-speed manual actually has the lower torque limit than the Subaru CVT (just check the power & torque rating on the CVT Levorg in Japan, it's higher than any US manual WRX variant). So it's unfair to completely blame the CVT if it holds more torque than the even weaker Subaru 6-speed.
Obviously Subaru only use these two in-house transmissions because they are cheap and keep their transmission factories ticking over!
The Aisin 6-speed from the old Subaru STi, which its bigger and stronger gears, would obviously cost Subaru more than the in-house 6-speed.
@@pawn3d167 Given Subaru's links to Toyotas, you'd think a variant of the Aisin 8-speed from the Lexus IS would be more likely if Subaru were to move away from their in-house transmissions?
@@TassieLorenzo The Og STI 6 speed was an Aisin?
There was a time when the WRX STI was faster than the Mustang GT, and a genuine competitor against the M3 and Cayman S on track and in a straight line. Crazy how far Subaru has fallen
following in mitsubishis footsteps
They can still do that though? They haven’t gotten worse.
so true, and so crazy to think about. I had an evo x but had driven and cruised with many sti's...such a good and fast car...the good old days lol
@@AZGladiatorYou’re fucking insane if you genuinely believe that.
@@AZGladiatorAre you kidding? This new STI is nowhere near a Mustang GT, M3, or Cayman. A TRD Camry has more HP.
I 100% thought this video was going to be clickbait, 3 minutes in my jaw is legit to the floor.
Ngl, I thought the new STI looks early close to a Civic Hatch (atleast in the rear) in the thumbnail
0:25 meanwhile bmw quietly making modern skylines with m340i xdrive
The other white liberal male brand.
STI+CVT=WTF
@@BMWROYAL
Technically, it is an STI (since Subaru since then dropped the Impreza nameplate)
Actually funny lol
every time i see the new Subaru I get upset
Well said
AI can't drive manuals, so they need to be phased out
When this doesn't sell, Subaru will use this as an excuse to ax the WRX altogether
The scalpers and speculators in Japan love these sorts of limited edition S cars from Subaru. Plus it's only just 500 cars for Japan.
And they will turn the wrx into a crossover
Precisely, it's a repeat of the Legacy GT.
Companies really are trying to only sell crossover suvs and it shows
Look at the “RSX” that got announced recently. Oh boy.
I saw the CVT in an announcement and was stunned.
Not gonna be able to tune it with more torque like a manual transmission, that's for sure.
@@benitoloco899 hey CVT is Highly tunable but most people are not smart enough with computers to figure this out how do you think the program the gear ratios in a CVT if it continually variable how does the car know what band to go into you can change those bands
@@beatyoubeachyt8303 Only Asians can work with CVTs, if it's in the USA expect incompetence and overcharging for a very simple transmission that they refuse to learn
@@beatyoubeachyt8303they are also unreliable peices of crap. I'll take a slush-o-matic beetle over anything with a fucking CVT
@@beatyoubeachyt8303Shit will blow up thats for sure. Keep it stock if you actually want it. Or just get wrx manual
I heard someone speculate that the new WRX is nerfed because Toyota owns 20% of Subaru and doesn't want internal competition with their GR Corolla.
It sucks what has become of the STI but that explanation at least makes logical sense.
That sounds pretty logical
Yeah similar to what happened to the Evo. Nissan owned 25% of the company and discontinued everything good about mitsubishi and forced them to use their Nissan platforms
I think they just can't reliably push that much power out of this new engine + Subaru as a small company with a handful of models is at the mercy of CAFE and Subaru can't put out a car that does 18MPG combined like the VA STI anymore.
@@James_Buchanan_Electrical_82 Logical? And the owners of the rest of the 80% don't care about losing profits while a competitor they have no stake in takes that money?
Nope. Does any luxury or performance brand make just one popular model? They have the parts and engineering to make one version great, so they duplicate it with alterations. The logical answer is to make many popular models.
My left leg is stronger than my right leg, so I'm going to smash my left toe, to even out. yeah.
..... Someone explain how partnerships work to these ones? Should we partner up and nerf each other!?!!!???!?!!!
While I agree, Subaru, along with most JDM automakers are screwing the pooch these days, the VB WRX gets way more hate than it deserves. I bought a 24 WRX new for $31k. That’s $20k less than the GR corolla, Type R Civic, Type S Integra, etc. The horsepower is underrated from the factory. It’s as fast, if not faster, than an STI from any of the previous generations, stock-for-stock. A Cobb Accessport/tune, intake, exhaust, coilovers, and good tires will have you around $35k total spend and you will be beating the stock competition with a $15k savings… just saying. They’re not trash.
Its been pretty obvious Subaru doesn't care about WRX anymore when they made this current generation look like a Pontiac Aztec + Dodge Caliber lovechild. Hey Subaru, try a CVT front-wheel drive BRZ to drive away your last few enthusiasts and just be done with it....
@@mikedaleiden7725 throw in some ecotastic tires and i’m in!
I think u mean a hybrid FWD cvt BRZ....
😂@@JonHop1
DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
"Lets not make an STI but say we did."
STI in Japan does not mean the same as STI in the US. You can get STI packages on most of their cars in Japan.
Yeah Subaru Japan uses STi just like S-line, N-line, ST-line, r-line and any other company throwing their performance trim badge on cars
Thank you for bringing basic knowledge to this conversation (not sarcastic; it's ridiculous how many people are losing their minds over this)
This just further shows that this variant will not be available in North America.
But what about using the S#-badge? I mean the last one in Japan was S208 and even that had 325hp and was manual-only...
S200 series DOES mean something though. Its meant to be the most special version of each sti
I had a 2020 WRX. These cars aren't fast, but they are fun in the corners. At first you think, this car is very quick, but within a couple weeks, the excitement dissipates. I definitely wouldn't want an automatic version.
If they are going to make an STI, it should pop way more than a regular WRX. Probably 350-400 hp
"These cars aren't fast" - Then you didn't have one....
I am really didnt understand too, here in japan we have a lot of old people driving these boring subarus with STI badges, all of then is CVT. When they are asked about that, they said that they choose these veicules due AWD and and better and more complete safe features (EyeSight).
Talking about normal people on a country that you didnt have much space and roads that is smaler.
We have some status when get a manual license here and we have people that didnt have manual license and trying to be look like (this is insane between youngers). And this works by the same for motobikes.
But when you have the same company doing the oposite with BRZ is really strange...
And they recently announced a limited edition BRZ with gold brembos (for curiosity, Toyota had the same with last previous GT86 with big red brembos and special color "British Racing Green" so the purple color choiche is a perfect countermatch).
Anniversary Edition Version 7 STI owner here.
The S200 badge is entirely different than the boring upbadged models. The one before this (S209) had 341hp and was offered in manual.
Interesting! I have a 2001 bug eye WRX STI, rally blue with gold rims, made in Japan. Going to keep it and never sell it. Dont see why, I just like looking at it and dont drive it that much anymore but just look after it as I always do. Had it for like 12 years now, even kept it when I was overseas for two years.
@@MervtheWarlord I understand perfectely your caution, we want to keep then and not drive often (in my city, a normal day is a really chaotic even for a normal car imagine an STI...).
i really have a nice story with theses Subarus and with my actual one i have another amazing history too!
Mine is silver (even all of us wants a blue one, i discovered that only 88 are made in silver), imaculated one (exterior and interior [and still have original Kenwood CD and MD readers) and it have that same plataform and engine as S202 (is a previous and base model that they used).
I want to keep it at maximum because my baby will born in this year and i want to enjoy together (i already have a WRC STI baby toy car lol)
And this is my second bugeye.
@@川村エンヒケ well done, yes I had the WRX before, and I found the 5 speed better for traffic. The 6 speed is useless in traffic and simply too much work when in traffic!
I have a 2003 ish BMW x5 and that is a nice car to drive when it is busy and need to go somewhere
The black bottom trim around the entire car pisses me off
Its so ugly
yes, it makes the car look cheap
It looks like a 50 cent matchbox. Good shit Suburu you completely fucked your lineage.
Yeah, and to think that's like the 8th thing thats wrong with it!
Makes it look like a 90's shit box. Smh😅
Looks like someone was taking notes from JaGUaR…
😂
Who willingly copies horse shlt? Subaru apparently.
@@Clooger- *cat* shit
JagUwUar
More like Fa-
2005 wrx sti had 300 horsepower, that was 20 years ago
2004, first STi in North America was the same. SRT-4 and MS3 weren’t too far off that power level either
And people don’t say what you pay for a “wrx” monthly. It’s almost 800 a month for a damn Wrx -__-
@@nightreapers3425 thats like basically the normal price you are going to pay for a car when financing it depending on how much money you put down. Welcome to the future.
@@ItzzShazey That’s what was going to make me trade it in cause of the payment. But like you say for anything else now days what I’d put down. It’s gonna be near it so I’m gonna just suck it up and build the vb Wrx into a street rally car
300HP was a lot back in 2005. In 2025 a basic family sedan has more power than that.
I hate CVT transmissions. I got a 2021 Toyota CHR for my wife and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the car but if you’re stopped at a red light and you wanna try to accelerate a little bit quickly, the transmission prevents you from doing it. it feels like when I was learning how to drive stick and I wasn’t confident enough to take my foot off of the clutch pedal fast
Drove an ASEAN spec Yaris before and my god, the throttle lag and the CVT's sluggishness is horrendous, legitimately took almost 2 seconds to respond to larger throttle inputs.
@ for me it not even the throttle response, it’s got some pep when it’s moving but if you are stoped, the thing doesn’t move off the line
1:21 video starts
Hero
You sir are one of the greats!!
As big as a flop this is, its still not as bad as the mitsubishi eclipse cross legacy lol.
Better than the hatchback ilx masquerading as an integra too.
You can get the Integra with a manual and over 300 hp, it’s not even close to as bad as this.
@@tylerp4130 Yeah, if you can afford to buy the premium spec package. All else gets cvt.
@ and you think this pile of crap will be cheap? Integra A-Spec with a manual starts at $38k. At least the Integra gives you the option.
They drop the ball after Evo’s end run, Subaru should be competing with Type R because that car taking over 4Banger engine world
The craziest part is that even a higher percentage of WRX owners chose manual than owners of the Supra (example used in the video) and they STILL decided to move forward with this.
"According to Subaru, it's has been a fruitful year for manual transmission enthusiasts, with the brand reporting an 83% take rate for the six-speed stick WRX for 2024 model year vehicles has been confirmed by Car and Driver. That means only 17% of WRX buyers have opted for the continuously variable transmission."
The math isn't math-ing. It's the same model that 83% of your buyers got the manual for that you made a special edition with a shitty "upgraded" CVT. If there was ever a way to let us know that you really don't care, Subaru found it. Textbook case of adding insult to injury. - Disappointed VB WRX (6MT) Owner
Sounds like they had a bunch of CVT WRXs sitting around unsold, and they need some way to move them.
I have the obvious answer in easy to read steps:
1.Gather sales data for ALL models
2.Feed that data to ChatGPT
3.Have an AI designed car made with 0 effort from your end
4.Cash that check babyyyy
I had a total of 5 WRX and 1 STI and One outback and one Forester 2.5. I've always been a die-hard fan but progressively over the years I came to realize that the people that run Subaru are total idiots disconnected from their customer base and acutely obsessed with pushing cars to soccer moms and dads. The current generation of WRX made me snap out of it. After years of telling myself, ah, they made it more ugly but at least it drives well, I could not get over the Camry look of the new gen and the lack of innovation. I would love to go into one of those board meetings and ask them questions.
Tbh it makes sense they got rid of manuals in the commuter cars. They sell horrendously.
They should realize(especially after the Supra), that isn’t true for performance cars. The manuals also hold there values wayyyy more. Just look at the values old Ferraris auto vs manual if you want to see how ridiculous the price differences can be.
Something that's not talked about enough: Subaru's largest stakeholder is Toyota (they own 20% of the company), and if I was a member on the board at Toyota, I wouldn't want anything owned by Toyota undercutting the GR Corolla/Yaris.
This, This right here is the reason. I'm a VB wrx owner and the car is more than capable of over 300 with a few tweaks meaning that they severely detuned the car either to meet emissions or because Toyota didn't want it to compete with GR corolla sales.
Is it 20% now? I was under the impression it was more like 10%
Lol u would never be on their board , clown
Yep, decisions like this are usually because of corporate politics
@@lucasokeefe7935what’s crazy is I’ve known about Toyota having a stake in Subaru since like 2017 and since then I’ve always though they owned 40% of Subaru lol. We must find the true number in this comment thread
To be honest the people over at Prodrive made a better WRX STI than Subaru, albeit a much more expensive one.
Not even the same class of cars
is this surprising to you? go check out the cosworth one lel
The RB320 edition of the Hawkeye STI for the UK market is still one of my favorites.
What is Subaru thinking. First the new WRX with all the plastic cladding and horrendous rear end and now this.
Fr
As a one time Subaru enthusiast who owned an Impreza, a Cross Trek, WRX, and a BRZ all at once, I didn’t let my enthusiasm for the brand get in the way of experiencing better cars.
I eventually replaced my Cross Trek with a Mazda CX 30 turbo. Because Subaru just could not bring themselves to create a compact SUV with more than 182 hp. I don’t need something the size of an outback or a Forrester. And in Subaru‘s lineup if you want even a modicum of power, you have to jump into one of those massive grocery getters.
I replaced my WRX with a Type R. As a one time hater of the Type R I eventually allowed the car enthusiast in me to shine as opposed to being a brand loyalist. Simply put the type R was a better car through and through than anything that Subaru had on offer.
And I eventually traded in my BRZ for Miata. This was less a slight against Subaru and more the simple fact that even though the BRZ is a great car the Miata is a completely different driving experience.
And now, as a car enthusiast that used to have a garage full of Subarus , I don’t see myself buying any of their cars anytime in the future. From awful head unit and what is likely the industry worst touchscreen available in a modern car today, to a lack of performance and power in almost every single one of the cars that they have on offer, Subaru has become nothing more than overpriced, cheaply made chassis with a good all-wheel-drive system. And although I won’t criticize the quality of their all-wheel-drive system, it’s about the only thing that the brand has in comparison to their competition that is any good.
Rocked a '02 WRX bugeye for many years and it was the most fun ever! Anytime something broke, I'd upgrade, and it wasn't long before that thing was an absolute beast (maybe a bit much for street use honestly). Sometime around 2014 I was looking to get a new WRX or STI, and the first thing I did was pop the hood...that's when the disappointment set in. That awesome engine I was so familar with was replaced with a bunch of rather cheap looking plastic bits. I was like, 'what the hell is that!?' oh that's the new platform. Hunh!? When did the WRX cease being the awesome rally car that regular folks could enjoy! Was really hoping that Subaru would get back to their roots in WRC and give the public what we've been asking for over the last two decades.
This feels like someone turning a Lancer FWD into an Evo clone
When the mazda 3 still has a manual but the sti doesnt....
I'd much rather buy a manual Mazda 3 at this point. I bought a CVT gen 5 Impreza after having a Chevy Cruze and it's been a sore disappointment. I miss having a turbo...
Even the Civic Type R still has a manual. And it's still mandatory as well to this day.
If you get the NA model, the turbo only comes with the auto.
@DragonKnightX12 oh I know, i got the NA premium. It's a bit sad the premium AWD turbo doesn't. Doesn't make sense to me
@@renaokawa6199 Probably the manual isn't built to handle the torque. Likely the reason we haven't gotten another turbo Miata either.
That's a solid ass point. I think I've seen ONE new Nissan Z 400 or whatever it's called, ever since they've been released.
I saw a LUCID AIR before I saw a Z. Insane how bad they flopped
Haven’t seen even one.
I've seen one new Z and 2 LUCIDs in my area. Ever. That actually is kind of crazy because I see like 4 cybertruks a week, about 5 Supras, and in the last several months 1 new NSX.
I honestly don't see why it flopped so hard, it's a really nice looking and performing car that's available in auto or manual now. Guess the release killed it before it could really run.
@@thegeneral1955 Price to performance, why would you buy the Z when you can have a supra for the same price.
“Don’t you want quicker lap times?” -> uh, you void our warranty if the car touches a track…
I love how the back of the new Subaru WRX looks like a goddamn civic 😂
TBH i think we all knew they'd let us down again
Not like this though...
CVT?!
@@cloudyview yeah that was a real dick punch
@@cloudyviewthe regular WRX sold in Japan isn't available with a manual for some reason, even though all WRXs are built in Japan 🤷, I just didn't expect the limited edition S version to also not have a manual transmission.
The fact my Focus RS came with 350hp BEFORE I tuned it, is sad. I was expecting more after the STi hiatus but oh well. I have the car I love in my garage🤷🏾
Manual should ALWAYS BE AN OPTION ✅
I own a auto 86 and I 100% agree with this on EVERY car
And be slow?
@@24eckoif speed is all you care about, drive an EV and call it a day. Everyone knows three pedals is slower than two, and none of us care.
@@FrankOsman ok just make sure you stay out of the fast lanes grandpa.
@@24ecko🧢
Man I was all hyped up to pick up a WRX recently after watching tons of RUclips videos and so forth. Once I got behind the wheel of one, I was sorely disappointed. It didn't live up to the hype in any way. I already own a Subaru Outback Wilderness, which is a station wagon, and I felt that the Outback was faster off the line than the freaking WRX. The WRX also is way too loud in the interior. There is a low engine rumble always present in the interior that I found to be annoying and distracting. It's at a certain frequency/pitch that you can't even have a normal volume conversation with someone or really even enjoy the dang radio in the car. There were fit and finish issues... the freaking hood was wobbling in the wind when I took it up to highway speeds. Finally, premium fuel only? What is that about? $40k plus for an optioned WRX is a very hard-sell for me. No thank you.
Premium gas in any turbocharged vehicle is recommended and required for most performance engines regardless of NA or FI. My jeep renegade with the abarth engine uses premium. My Saab used premium. My old NA Cadillac used premium. My golf used premium.
Sounds like you bought the VB WRX for all the wrong reasons LOL. Stick to your CVT Outback.
The Outback has a turbo engine... faster than the WRX on regular gas. Sad really. Regarding my Outback, the wife is the one driving it mostly. I was going to trade it in for the WRX and get her something else, but there's no way I was going to go down to an objectively worse vehicle for roughly the same price. The WRX has no utility value, so I definitely expected it to make up for it in the "fun factor" like my previous Audi, and I also expected higher build quality all around. I wanted something that would make me smile whenever I put my foot down. That wasn't the case unfortunately.
After looking at some other cars, I ended up buying a 24 ZR2 Colorado for my personal vehicle and kept the wife in the Outback. The truck also has a turbo 4 and uses regular gas. It's punchy enough and has the fun factor in other ways. An all around much better choice for fun combined with function.
There seems to be something like a cult following for the WRX. People get very defensive of any criticism of the car when any new buyer of one mentions how disappointing it is compared to almost any other option at the same price point.
It's amazing how it feels like every big corporation in every industry is dedicated towards making the most unappealing products right now.
I now study to become a Product Owner and I can tell you, there are a LOT of idiots who work as PO's and they have absolutely no idea what they are doing, thus we have CVT in STI...
I agree with you 100%, but part of the problem is that the people buying new cars are not the enthusiasts, for the most part. New cars are so expensive, especially these days, that people who buy them aren't as likely to spend big money on top of that to modify the car, which also hurts the resale value in most cases. The type of person who buys a new car is the type who wants something pristine and cushy. That's why manual transmissions are dying, and that's why car companies keep slapping enthusiasts in the face.
Great comment. We’re (enthusiasts) upset that they’re not building great cars that we can buy second hand but of course they’re not going to build cars for the second hand market. The problem is that new cars are simply too expensive. If you can only afford one car you can’t really justify a sports car because of the compromises that come along with it unless you’re young and single. You’re right that new sports cars are too big of a financial commitment to actually use them as intended and to modify.
Manuals are dying because of single-parent households and smartphones. Dad used to teach kids how to drive a stick. Fewer dads around now. And most people text while they drive. Hard to do while shifting.
I have a 17 wrx and regret not buying the STI only because I’ve blown up spider gears twice. This is a disgrace. David you should make a video on the downfall of out tuner car world. How we are supposed to buy an EV and how having another country try do the dirty work is “green”
EVs are a fad and already are dying out as normies are realizing they are inefficient and arguably worse for the environment than ICE cars. We have the technology to basically run internal combustion engines on water (hydrogen), yet everyone's focused on lithium and electric for some reason 🙄
Again: the real goal is to eliminate vehicle ownership and force everyone into smart cities.
You can write a thank you letter to:
The UN
The WEF
Theil
Elon
Vance
MrSubaru1387 makes a great point on his video on the topic. Subaru has earned a reputation in the car community for headgaskets failures and reliability issues. Even though it has been long resolved, the stigma still remains and affects many of their biggest sellers/mainstream cars. I think it's true that Subaru has sort of lost interest in selling the WRX and performance cars because it seems like it comes back to bite them in the ass. They make more money selling Outback, Crosstrek and Foresters to Hikers and Nanna's than they do selling performance cars. I mean considering they only sell maybe 30k WRX and 3k BRZ's a year is not very sustainable. The rally market helped them garner attention and the WRX did what it was supposed to do. Now, like MrSubaru1387 said, they are probably tired of people beating the snot out of their WRX's then suing them when they decline warranty coverage. All people say anyways is how dissapointing it is and how ugly they are, I agree with the idea that they are just done and want to be done with the performance car sector of their brand. Just my two cents.
My mom just recently bought a new Outback. I told her to take it to the shop because it had some serious engine noise that I mistook as valve tick... Turns out the exhaust manifold was missing two bolts from the factory! smh...
This is the car manufacturer that can't even apply RTV properly on a oil pan after all 😂
I cannot even react angrily anymore. I'm just shocked and numbed by the amount of neglect being handed to car enthusiast.
A good CVT? That's an oxymoron💩
A good cvt would be like how they were before the Prius. Holding constant rpm during acceleration as opposed to fake slushy gear changes that literally no one likes.
@4V3N1 Most new CVTs hold the ideal rpm when you put your foot down and only mimic gear changes when driving normally. Subaru's CVT does this and is why it's faster than the manual. I just wish Subaru understood enthusiasts are more interested in engagement and fun factor than speed and comfort.
A good cvt is toyotas that they use in the hybrids, cuz it uses planetary gears
Any automatic gearbox is good for people who don't like to drive and for the disabled ones.
@GJM- An auto is good for people whose commute is traffic free and who dont have to drive their own car for work
Speaking of Manual.. I work at a port.. we drive a variety of cars, trucks, suv's.. I mostly drive Mercedes, but sometimes we have to drive other models, like Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, Buick.. ect. We drove some Hyundai's a bit ago, and came to a handful of the Elantra N's.. and they where the manual.. We have 8-9 drivers on our van.. and only two of us, Myself, 40 and one other, who is 61, knew how to drive them.. Its crazy..
The upside is you might be able to command a premium in the future since nobody else can drive a manual. You’ll be worth your money!
I feel enthusiasts have fell into that as well, because automatic is quicker and more "convenient", they're in it for convenience and wins on a street not really driver engagement or learning a new skill.
@@eriya8274but Subaru's CVTs even this SPT is still a lot more sluggish than the manual.
Based on my experience with MT, AT, DSG, and CVT, I'm only slightly biased toward a good manual or automatic for everyday driving / commuting. Maybe DSG would be at the bottom of the list for its lack of smoothness (10 yrs ago experience). For a performance /enthusiast vehicle however, CVT is actually a turn-off. Some manufacturers miss the fact that 'driver engagement' cannot be measured by lap times, and there is a thin grey line between too much and too little. There is a difference between DRIVERS and COMMUTERS. Don't mix them up.
My dad told me when I was kid, in the late 80’s, manual transmission was going to be a thing of the past. He’s a hot rod restorer. I was…a huge Subaru fan 😢
People can call me crazy, I considered a Subaru STI, but I saw what Hyundai is doing with their N lineup and I went for that instead. They really catered to the hatch enthusiasts and now have their new sedans too.
Had a 2021 veloster n in 8spd dct. Had to let her go 😢
Hyundai saw the gap in the market and took the opportunity, and boy did that pay off!
@@finch404 yeah they saw the gap so much they axed their hot hatch line in the US (Veloster). Maybe they’ll make an Elantra N hatchback. I’d kill for them to import the i20 N into the US but I doubt that’ll happen since us Americans only seem to want big fucking SUVs and trucks
i loved my 15 veloster turbo i wanted an N but when i was looking for a new car they had JUST come out and i wont buy a car that just came out i also wanted a stinger but those were a bit too pricey so i got my dream car a 2014 mustang GT. would love another 1.6T car as a project or daily or both
Subaru is dead. Mitsubishi is dead. Nissan is half dead. Toyota is hanging on. Honda is about to fall. Germans are slowly dying. Dont get me started on usa. Why? Because they all have no balls and let the epa bend them over with crybaby weather talk. Pathetic.
True.
It will basically be Toyota still able to do what they want and Mazda building the Miata until the end of the universe.
@@aaronbryan5095 mazda died when the rotary died. Because mazda lacks testicular fortitude. The weather is scary.
Dodge is deadest of them all. The Vipers and Challengers being replaced by the Duracell equipped Charger is humiliating to the brand and Dodge will be filed away into oblivion like so many other American car divisions.
Acura and the second gen NSX lost it's soul and purity of what a sports car needs to be.
Lotus is now a complete laughingstock with the garbage computer "tech" coming from them.
The new Mustang and its fagcentric ipad dash display..... its all so pathetic.
Even Porsche is walking on VERY thin ice right now - literally.
And theres Hyundai trying to be Honda in 90s making fun FWD car
As a Mitsubishi and Evolution Enthusiast, Evos = "Lets quit while we're ahead... Oh and Subaru will suffer since we'll be gone." 😂
I just can never get past all the chunky ugly plastic on the new WRX (and most other new vehicles, but especially the WRX).
The weird wheel arches, the Honda looking small taillights and center garnish, and the god awful "diffusers" or whatever they're calling the poopy diaper looking chunky black plastic on the back bumper. Stop trying to be different for the sake of it. >__
You know what's crazier? The STI's 6-speed transmission is legendarily good. It takes a ton of power with no issues, and it was co-developed with Porsche. Subaru has literally no need to develop anything new, just use what they already have.
Hey at least they didn't go the EV route..
Anything over 30k with under 300 hp in 2025 is a joke
This be worse than going EV, at least EV can go fast
For those of you unaware, the JDM WRX S4 has been CVT only since the VA generation. If you wanted a manual WRX in Japan, your only option was to buy the STI model. Now that the STI has been killed off, Subaru Japan still won't sell a manual WRX in Japan. Despite all the "STI" trim packages they keep releasing, they still refuse to offer any of them in manual, and therefore this S210 edition is much the same. Any why should we care anyway? This limited edition run is exclusive to the Japanese market and Subaru isn't going to make a manual version to appease foreign fans that aren't even going to be able to buy it anyways.
The Subaru brand now just screams “Rainbow Crowd”, and they really could care less about a dorky WRX.
I saw a 2025 STI on the road in Boca Raton Florida last week. My friend argued with me for over a half an hour that it was actually a Honda Civic because the rear looks exactly like the last gen Honda Civic.😂
Clearly, times have changed. I bought my 2018 STI because of the experience. Compared to my 2015 WRX the STI had the rumbling sound, no rev hang, and so on. Subaru has been telling us for years that they are done with us. The EJ engine had reliability issues, but we kept buying the car for that wonderful driving experience.
I'm happy that I drove it when I could.
Even with low power if it were insanely light, I might consider buying it.
The GR series from toyota is a very small portion of their sales. However its the most important. Its their soul. Its their mission statement. Its what people idolize when buying a Camry or Tacoma.
Thats why its important to get it right. Even tho its low production.
any non corporate/fleet spec tacoma costs more than GRC... lol
@@ogmechsftw it's stupid how so many people are willing to pay so much money for pick-up trucks, too many consumers have absolutely lost their marbles in the last 10-15 years.
I bought a 23 wrx and the gear box felt like trash. I sold that sucker
🥴😆🤣
Remember it's not just an auto, it's a CVT.....
They clearly aren't targeting actual performance enthusiasts. They're targeting Joe Schmo who goes in to buy a WRX but sees this car and thinks, "Oh that's bad ass," based only on the fact they stuck a wing, some Recaros and Brembos on it.
I've worked at big companies, and can confirm that incompetence floats. Management fills with peoples whose profession is self promotion, but they are useless at the companies main product.
The mazdaspeed 2.3mzr made 287hp in 2007.... almost 20 years ago.
Same for the Caliber SRT4, made 285 in 2008. Made 350 full bolt on and diablosport tune, those were the fwd hatch days. 😢
@MrMcbear those days don't have to end lol. I'm still living in them! I'm currently meth tuning on my ms3 with a built engine big turbo.
The original USDM STi in 2004 made 300hp..
Not to 2025 emissions regulations, although by all means the Focus RS made ~355hp from that same basic 2.3 engine too while complying with 2015-2017 emissions (albeit boost limited in low gears for whatever reason).
What did you do for the rods ?@@NoHairRedBeard i want one
OMG! CVT!?!? IS THIS AN EARLY APRIL FOOLS JOKE?!? 🤬🤦♂
2:53 Epic Boosie insert 😂😂😂
I feel that 😂
The STI didn't really change since the 90's. They peaked in 2006 with the Hawkeye widetrack. It's no wonder why companies go into liquidation when they don't have any appeal
The enthusiast problem is they think why too much of their importance. They are a tiny portion of an industry that never finds them a highly profitable element. History repeatedly makes it clear that they are problem and not a solution to anything.
Tbh the wrx has been garbage for a min
The reason it's a limited run is because it's an "S" car, but like... the old S209 made 45 more goddamn horsepower and had an indestructible 6 speed manual drive train. The WHOLE POINT of an STI to me is that it's an AWD car you can actually beat on, the transmission and drivetrain will take it. That CVT? No chance that's as tough. Put it on track, get the fluid hot, does it even last as long as those fancy new brakes before it overheats? Just goofy ass bullshit through and through.
Also, the Japanese spec S cars ever since the S202 have at least 316 hp and rev to 8000 rpm, with the engine rotating assembly being balanced to a tighter tolerance than a regular STI and has a quicker spooling turbo than a regular STI. This S210 is a massive downgrade.
less than 300hp?? damn
It’s roughly 300hp.
The integral (area under the HP curve) is likely higher than past STIs, due to higher compression ratio and DI, even if the HP is the same.
@@heh2k it certainly doesn't have the revs of previous Japan spec S cars though, those things rev to 8000 rpm.
It seems like it’s not just car companies. There’s a growing gap between corporate and what people actually want. It’s like they’re deciding what we want and then blaming us for not buying the product. Feedback is useless because only corporations know what’s best for be people apparently
Subaru is the kind of company that would wear a suit to a job interview for Hot Topic
6:18 - You meant to say 'complacent'?
I think he tried to say incompetent
Hopefully Honda/nissan give us more RWD/awd
I'm also sort of confused why they went with what appears to be an aftermarket wing instead of using a real STI wing. Surely they were capable of making their own spoiler.
I work for a Subaru Dealership, and I can tell you that 90% of the WRX we sell are stick shifts. WRX buyers hate the CTV. At this point, I believe there's a conspiracy against the automobile industry.
You know what sports car has a 100% manual take-rate and the manufacturer just can't sell enough of? The Civic Type R. If a manufacturer just focuses, they'll waste less money developing products that dilute a brand, and end up with a better product that appeals to the intended audience.
Imagine if the Z was manual only. How much more money could've been diverted from the developing the hardware, trim parts, programming, marketing etc. of the 9AT and instead made the base car better? (Lighter weight? More power? Higher rigidity? Who knows?)
Make the single best version and sell it to the core audience first. Let that recoup some of the cost, then worry about expanding accesibility through an AT. The GRC's strategy in this respect was genius. There probably would've been money on the table for an STI had Subaru just made the WRX manual-only to start with.
Dodge had it right for so long and then they shot themselves in the foot ...🤦🏽
The other foot*
More like Stellantis took them out back like Old Yeller.
@@DragonKnightX12 and the CEO that made that decision has now ran away.
It's so weird to me, too, as when you go to subaru events like Boxerfest you can see there is a ton of enthusiasm for the WRX and STI platform. I don't get why they want to kill it off like they are.
because the companies arw run by women who only want to sell cars to lesbians? I have no idea...
All I gotta say is even tho the si and type rs aren’t what they used to be 20-30 years ago at least honda understands how the car should feel and drive. And since 2006 si’s never had less than 198hp to this day
A Miata these days is faster than an Si lol, the Si is just as stagnant as the WRX in terms of engine performance.
If they were to bring back wagon body, I would love that. I would buy one. I regret not getting one before they discontinued the body style after 2014. But I also didn't know any better at that time. I do consider myself lucky getting my hands on a 23 Crostrek 6MT right before they ditched the manual in that. And frankly it's been a really fun car. Sure wish they put the FA20 or FA24 in it. *Nudge nudge* Like that will ever happen.
Here's another idea for STi. Develop an STi Forester, STi Crosstrek, STi BRZ alongside the WRX. No CVT's or SPT's. They've done Foresters in the past and to my new knowledge they actually did a Crosstrek Ts in 2016 (though it ended up being the hybrid so I was less excited). But the idea of designing great enthusiasts cars is right there in front of them, they just need to get the formula right and take the risk.
Another issue is car manufacturers rather not take big risks on small groups but rather cookie cutter relatively the same vehicle for easy guaranteed revenue.
I also would agree that the decline of Mitsubishi has made Subaru very complacent in the competitive racing area. Fortunately we still have Vermont Sports Car treating the WRX right.
Subaru really killed their "Legacy" big time with this one. A really big let down.
The STi was available in the states from 04 to 20, ONLY AS A MANUAL. That's part of what made it such a standout car. You couldn't get an auto. Subaru was committed to manuals. 2 years ago I traded my 2011 STi wagon for a manual supra, and have been very pleased with it. I do miss the awd, and having much more room in the STi, but the supra is so much more fun.
Isn’t the manual wrx notoriously more popular than the auto wrx? What are we doing here
Its like 90% manual iirc
@@TDT0188 In the US it is. In Japan, where this was revealed, it's basically the complete opposite where autos are more popular than manuals
@@wackyklinger602Japanese are still driving I was of the impression they live in the future and can teleport 🥴😆🤣
0:30 Funny how they are sabotaging their entire Legacy, considering that's a Subaru.
The majority of enthusiasts are broke and weren't new car buyers in the first place.
That wing looks awful. 🤣🤣🤣
Car companies are SO LOST when it comes to market appeal -vs- profit obsession, they ultimately end up losing at both. Its so sad its hysterical, but we all lose nonetheless.
This car is a rolling embarrassment.
I think you said it best right at the beginning; "They might as well not even bother...".
If they're only making 500, don't bother...
If they won't give it a manual, don't bother...
If they can't even give it more HP than the previous STI, don't bother...
How do decision-makers like this keep their jobs?