After watching this, I'm hugging and coddling my 2005 STi even harder than before. Thank God I work at a dealership and I can keep her alive well past 400k miles if needed.
Definitely hold onto it man cuz those things are usually abused beyond repair at this point in time. I’m sure it’s not so rare that buying another in good condition is impossible… but the cost 😬
I think a lot of people aren’t understanding the reality of the current market in Japan. Japan is continuing to become an aging population with manufacturers seeing low manual transmission car sales year after year. I think Subaru is targeting an aging market who prefer automatic cars but prefer some performance upgrades and limited production editions like the S210. As Americans we hate it but in Japan, people are now preferring cars like this.
This is definitely a huge part of it. Also, you have all the manufacturing headaches that come with having to allow for two completely different styles of gearbox in your designs and in your assembly line. Commonality and similarity of parts have a huge impact on manufacturing.
The S210 is only for the Japanese market, and there's no manual option for the WRX in Japan. So it's not surprising they aren't offering the S210 with a manual.
Been saying this since it was announced, why is anyone surprised it's not a manual? Like yeah I agree it would have been nice to do a dct as a once off given it's only 500 units, but still not surprised.
@poodabran Meh. Most owners might ride up a sketchy campsite road at best once a year. Subarus don't have the angles, power, or low range to do much more than what's called "softroading". Same as any other lifted awd crossover out today.
@@svgs650r Earth. You need to reread what he said. They are fine in regular commuter cars that Subaru puts into. They don't really belong in a road performance car that sees racing and rally use. Now unless it is a fantastic state of the art CVT, a manual is better and still more fun for sure.
If Subaru cares about going above and beyond by going above and beyond EPA standards, this and that is more efficient but also faster blah blah blah, they should just stop making the WRX, STI and any car like it in general then. That’s the WHOLE point of these cars, made to be fun, and people buy them because of that. I’m not a Subaru owner but I feel for the car community on this one. Shame
Excellent? I don't know about that, the Aisin 6-speed is significantly better is it not? I'd be interested in measurements of gear diameters, thickness, hardness but my understanding is that the Subaru uses significantly smaller gears than in the Aisin. I wonder how the Subaru gears compare to what's in a Lancer Evo gearbox or turbo-era Civic Type R gearbox? Heck even the Renault PK4 manual gearbox (in the Megane RS250 and onwards up to the RS300, i.e., 250-300hp) was no longer feeble like the Renault NFJ box in older turbo Meganes, I wonder how that stacks up to the Subaru box.
@@dannyrbailey I don't understand why the EPA is going after sports cars and not the massive SUVs and trucks making 20mpg that so many more people are buying when they don't need one.
I've seen a Subaru shaped like a Porsche in the street (Europe) the other day, but I can't even find which model it is on their website... Not a WRX, STI, etc the front and the whole car was really lower.
Most of their cars never have been for enthusiasts. They sell tiny, cheap cvt econoboxes and rebadged Daihatsus in Japan that's where a lot of their money comes from to make a few cool models to sell around the world. Even here in the US most of their sales go to basic models like the Crosstrek with the 2.slow. Why would they go out of their way for the enthusiasts who just break their cars and sue them about it when nobody else has any complaints about their warranty and what they build?
I think you're correct with the conspiracy about discontinuing the WRX. What they fail to notice is us consumers that love the cars also have families. That means we have Foresters or Ascents too. If there's no reason for me to stay for the sports cars, i might as well leave completely. I could easily support another manufacturer
Of course they don't care about enthusiasts anymore. Their top 3 models (Outback, Forrester, Crosstrek) all sold more than 150k each in the United States for year 2023. WRXs sold were 25k that same year. They're just following the money. Hardly a controversial business model.
It is because people hate the plastic cladding and the ugly rear tail lights that they bought at the Honda bargain bin. Their sales would be higher if they continued the previous generation, the dealership I went to recently still had 2022 (Orange) WRXs and a couple 2023 models. They were offering free paint matching for all of the plastic and still are not able to move them. The salesman I talked to said he sold twice as many fourth gens than this current generation for the end of it's life when sales slumped in anticipation for the next generation.
Nissan still makes the GTR and that market is tiny, the cars are open floor constructed by a single engineer and they still make it for the legacy and the pride in their place in the culture. Subaru seems to just wanna roll over and don't say it's cause they're small because they now are backed largely by Toyota. These cars deserve to still exist they're what put them on the map.
@dsmbilly3690 the irony is that the new generation WRX has about the same power as last generations STI. and more potential with upgrades. Basically the va sti's dealers sold before the redesign were over priced compared to the new WRX. A body refresh might help them but like Mr. Subaru said I think they're self sabotaging to deplete interest and bow out which would be EXTREMELY unfortunate
@@dsmbilly3690 I hate that big center screen more than any cladding but I think the rest of the design is aging well especially for the Levorg that we really should have gotten. I see a good number of VBs on the road now though. More often than I see VAs being driven... those are just sitting at shops and wholesale lots now.
Toyota owning a sizeable stake in subaru is probably telling them to step down. Toyota is focusing on re-introducing several enthusiast name plates. The celica, MR2 and supra mark 6.
A great video Mr Subaru. I own a 2020 WRX,/STI and I'm @87K. I'm a 55 year old USNAVY retired veteran out here in Oceanside Ca. I'm stock all the way. This Bluebaru is my daily driver and I'm really enjoying it. Coming from the 2017 WRX in 2022 to the 2020 STI is a day and night difference. Happy new year brother. Subaru in my opinion just needs to make another STI. Take care.
fair take mr Subaru. it seems they are done with the vape bro/clapped out ricer stereotype. they want to appeal to families who go camping. that's where the money is. and that's what corporations do. they make money for investors. sucks for us, but that's the reality.
@Smithcraft1 ikr their flagship brand that literally put it's name on the map. No further improvements were made to it no advertisements for it just say well the suvs sell more so yh we go there
@steve8803 times do change, but when you completely ignore a line if cars, for nearly a decade, and then try to revitalize it with a performance model? I couldn't even get Legacy stuff from ambassadors at meet ups!
@@steve8803 dude, look at the new Camry, it's still selling like crazy, the problem with the Legacy is it gradually became less and less sporty, more bloated and uglier looking ever since the fifth gen Legacy debut.
I agree! I've heard so many people state that Subaru discontinued the Legacy because sedans don't sell. That's a lie! Look at the Honda Accord & the Toyota Camry. Heck, I just bought a Camry and my wife has a Forester. I wanted to buy a Legacy but personally I think it's just been an ugly car lately :/. Subaru clearly didn't care about saving the Legacy; there still is a demand for sedans.
I'm clearly in the minority, but I like Subaru's JDM market offerings/approach with the tS STI treatments of their JDM cars that give all the suspension tweaks (Brembo brakes, larger wheels, CVT-cooler, struts, springs, pillow ball bushings on trailing links/arms, flexible draw stiffeners, flexible frame braces, flexible strut tower braces, etc.) of the complete cars (like the S209 brought here in the US), except with their "normal" powertrain/drivetrain. I've gone all-in to replicate this approach on my 2018 Forester XT 2.0L Turbo. I have installed all those things I mentioned above and even though it's "only" 250hp/258ft-lb tq with a CVT; I think it's just as fun as the 2015 WRX 6-speed manual I had before, but with more practicality for every day life stuff.
Had a 2012 STi and loved it. Back then there was talk of Subaru not innovating the car but merely repacking it with each body style…pretty sure CVT is not what anyone meant by innovating lol. I get it but I hate to see it dwindling…it always felt like it was comfortable in what it was…an exceptional rally car brawler at a decently affordable price…now it just seems like it doesn’t know what it wants to be.
If they get rid of it that would be a bummer… the new WRX is actually a great car, they did a great job on it. I’ve had a couple other generation wrx’s in the past and this new one is the best I’ve driven… I decided to get a new limited.
This car would bomb over here. I think the tS is a not so subtle hint that this is all they can get out of it anymore for under 50K...and I think it's also at the limit of what people can stomach price-wise for a WRX. It feels like the spirit of what it is supposed to be is missing, the Group A mentality is totally gone. Rally cars were brought up from humble econo-boxes. What would a full VB STi be at...60-65K MSRP? For an STi of yesteryear? I just don't think a fully STi would do well any more for what they want to sell it for.
The Subaru transmission that isn't Aisin-designed (STI and BRZ) is not rated for 300hp. The CVT already made 300hp in the Levorg before the SPT upgrade, so they're just going with what they know works. Plus fewer people drive manuals as time progresses. Regardless, it's a prototype not meant for the North American market.
It's mainly the torque that CVTs have trouble with. That's why when you see CVT vehicles go off road they have a tendency to sit in one spot even if the pedal is floored (going up steep hills, if one wheel is up against a rock, etc.) They have to limit torque so the belt in the CVT doesn't slip.
@@scott8919 CVTs were banned in F1 in 1994 for being too good. CVTs don't inherently not handle torque; the designs limits for costs and supplies for mass production and profit margins are why they aren't handling higher limits. Add to that, people tend to put the cart before the horse. They were adding power and engaging the trans in an abusive way ... without understanding of th engineering, limitations, heat soak, lubrication requirement changes ... Let me break it down a bit more ... the CVT fluid was designed for the loads they sent the car out with. The lubricant was engineered for the heat and shear resistance at loads and pressures the stock car would do. When you take it and increase power by 20% to it while not changing fluid, not adding extra cooling, and being ABUSIVE ... the transmission will not last. It is the same b.s. people pull on rotaries. They don't learn anything, they add boost, beat the hell out of it, then whine when something goes wrong ... but they didn't improve the cooling, ignition, fuel, use 87 octane, etc. How many people destroy epicycle trans from being morons? Many. How many destroy clutches? Engines? So we blame the CVT? Sounds like bias and misunderstanding. I prefer manual tbc. But I respect a well designed CVT that doens't have fake shift points as something that would be WONDERFUL to drive if your leg is so fucked you can't push down even a light clutch for long (try surviving major heart failure and try to push a really stiff clutch pedal for the first few months for example; but that is some people's forever; so autos/cvts will always be needed in society for even performance nutjobs like us). I wish for a car enthusiast community that shits on things a bit less is all. I will complain just as much about how idiotic it is CVTs shift as it is to have a 6 speed with a highway cruise rpm at 3k+ still. How many gears do we need before we can have proper overdrives in them?
@@ChanoWilliams Precisely! The rumours are actually that it is the Subaru 6-speed manual that has the lower torque limit *not* the Subaru CVT (though that also has a limit, but it's higher than the manual). The Levorg which is CVT only has more power in Japan than any of the exported manual models. I see people above saying the Subaru 6-speed is "excellent" but I don't understand how that is true? Is it not significantly worse than the Aisin 6-speed (like in the old WRX STi), and the only reason Subaru use the in-house 6-speed is because they can make it themselves and it is cheap?
If Subaru would replace the WRX with the Subaru Sportwagon WRX in they sell Mexico, I would buy it for sure. I love the performance aspect of Subies, but its ability to function as whatever you need to be is why I drive one. Not only would it appeal to the enthusiast, but it would also fill the wagon spot the New Outback redesign is leaving behind.
I don’t think the “S”210 should be wearing the STI badge but we should keep in mind that WRX has been available with CVT and only CVT in Japanese market for a while. A WRX variant for Japanese market will most likely come with a CVT, so there’s really nothing to be surprised at. Now the sad part is that the fact this factory modded WRX S4 is called S204 probably means that we won’t be getting a new STI at least for the current gen.
New member here. Glad I found you. I have a 2019 Crosstrek that has 18,131 miles on it today. I purchased this New off the showroom floor in Jan. Of 2019. It sits most all the time. When it does get drove it is all highways miles. The miles on it are from vacations with each being around 4 thousand miles. Any other time it sits 8n the g argue covered on a battery tender. It gets oil changes once a year. I like the car, it has given us no problems. We don't need it for we have newer cars we drive daily. My wife will not sell it. I say so long nice knowing you. I really like subaru. My Crosstrek gets over 38 mpg. I do baby it, I am almost 70. I built engines back in the day. Went to school for this.
I remember back in 2017 (worked at Ford) i was asked to diag a 2016 WRX for a possible transmission issue, found it was slipping and that it was using a CVT, i was like WTF? i really thought it was a joke, nope!!! it only had 8K on it and the reason we got it was the Subaru dealer was so full, they payed us to do the warranty work on it. I started looking into this all and was shocked that Subaru thought this was a good idea, i'm still lost for words as to why they did this and why they are still doing this today. Ford learned there listen with CVT's years ago, and we already stay busy with Nissan, Honda, Subaru, GM, Kia CVTs failing as it is, and we're just a Ford dealer.
I remember a few year ago their power target was in to 280-300kW range. I think that providing that power level with a warranty meant that, due to the low volume, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. I was holding out for one of those cars...
Myself and quite a few friends who also do RallyCross or Stage rally are just absolutely fed up with Subaru. This is a whole bunch of guys that were die-hard Subaru guys. Constantly buying parts going to events, both rally oriented and street/enthusiast related as well. And all but one guy has completely abandoned them. They built a large segment of their image and brand on a certain type of customer, and then completely turned their back on them. Actually, strike that. They didn’t just turn their back, they seem to be actively punishing them and trying to distance themselves from them.
It's a shame!!!!!! WRX was such a nice car 20 years ago. Guess I'll stick with the older ones would love to get ahold of a 6 speed for my 96 outback it's got a 5 speed ej22 in it now keep us informed love the videos!!!!!!!!!
@@fredastaire6156 yea my second Subaru my first was a brat back in 97 don't remember the year but that thing wouldn't get out of its own way lol. I'm in the middle of head gaskets right now already did the water pump and timing belt first head gasket I have done in around 20 years lol
I'd argue that Subaru has far more warranty issues with other vehicle models than WRX/STI at the current time. Cracking windshields, failed coolant temp regulators, delaminating entertainment screens, battery-killing parasitic electrical draws, wonky electronics in general, etc. prevail throughout other models. Performance models are no longer needed to draw to the brand as they've become a mainstream product these days and that's the market they're shooting for.
Anecdotal. Subaru has always had above average reliability and safety ratings for the past decade at least and just got rated THE most reliable car brand by consumer reports who put them above Toyota and Honda.
@@Crazy8ts I’m aware of that. But regarding reliability, that’s probably not including the eboxer which isn’t available in the US. Ofc it’s not telling to judge from a personal perspective when looking at issues. Safety ratings for Subaru are great in the EU also. Regarding reliability there’s simply not enough Subaru cars around here. I’ve had a very mixed experience with several warranty claims and 2 open ones looked at soon.
@@JP-hr3xq I like how Subaru made sporty versions of crossovers when crossovers in general were still nowhere near as popular as they are now, yet right now when crossovers have become really popular Subaru doesn't make any high performance crossovers anymore, even if there's a market for them if they're priced right.
It would be interesting to see if they will still offer a manual for the STI. I think Mr.Subaru's opinion has some merit. Basically, Subaru wants a new approach. Less frills. Just simple, safe and reliable. A mild sports STI is not the worst thing in today's car market. It would be nice to see a manual available. I have a feeling this will be such a road car in comparison to other Subaru's
Maybe I'm nuts, but it seems like car manufacturers used to overbuild and undertune cars for emissions, knowing that their target market will mod the cars. It seems like bean counters have removed that overbuilding. Now, when you do anything to a new car, it becomes a time bomb. I'm sorry, but if you mod a new car and it pops, don't blame it on the manufacturer! If you can't afford it, fix it, leave it stock, and just enjoy it. I know, crazy talk.
So so sad, it’s like Subaru saw the GR Yaris, GR Corolla and the Type R Civic and just threw their hands up. I also agree with you about the warranty claims, what they don’t realize, brand loyalty is “a thing” and if you have a great experience in your early 20s with a manufacturer you will come back to it no matter what!! Subaru is setting itself up for a slow death in the next 20 years, it’s the enthusiasts that probably kept them alive this long!
I believe you are right, Mr. Subaru. But I hope you are mistaken. If the warranty history of the cars is a large part of the problem, I'd be fine with them building an STi with no warranty offered, or an abbreviated warranty, such as 90 days. Something else to consider, gov't fuel economy mandates. A gas guzzler like the WRX/STi makes it harder for the rest of the fleet to make the numbers. Get rid of the gov't interference and it would be a lot easier to offer a real hot rod. But even if they did bring an STI to the US again, it'd be $60k, and offer less performance than many other similarly priced cars. I, too, think Subaru is simply done with the market. Pulling support from WRC was the first big indicator.
I think it would be cool to see Subaru Build something that doesn't necessarily have a ton of horsepower out the gate, But perhaps something that has a solid lock and crank setup. So the tune community can have fun with it. Like toyota did with the 2j. Just under two hundred horsepower but capable of a lot more once you start tinkering.
I don't like your chances, sadly! Nobody is going to make an overbuilt engine these days, not even Toyota (see GR Yaris/GR Corolla). It is all about the narrowest bearings, thinnest oil etc to minimise friction and maximise MPG (for CAFE), which means an engine that is already "on the limit" from the factory.
@@TassieLorenzo It's funny you say that, because the G16E in the GR Yaris/Corolla is actually very overbuilt for a 3 cyl. Shops have gotten it putting out 720whp with stock bottom. Just needs a built head , injectectors, ethanol, and a big turbo. The K20C1 in the Type-R is also pretty stout. As is the B888 in the VWs. The Golf R with it's bigger turbo can push over 400whp with just a intake and tune. VW also another version with a even bigger turbo in the GTI Clubsport that they won't bring over too the States for some reason. Even the FA24 in the VB actually tunes pretty good, and has been pushed to 600whp.
@@DragonKnightX12 I don't know about that! I agree that 400whp is fine on the EA888 and K20C. But 720whp on a G16E for how long, how many seasons of road racing or seasons of rallying? At least a full season before a rebuild? That's more than a Toyota WRCar (a lot more). In the video "What's Killing Your Toyota G16E GTS Engine? GR Yaris & GR Corolla" by PIRAS Motorsport, they don't seem to think the G16E engine is all that strong? 🤔 Same goes for how long a stock FA24 can hold 600whp. I don't like drag racing numbers that the engine can only hold for a handful of pulls, it seems unrealistic. Someone was even someone saying a G16E can hold 1000hp on the PIRAS comments! That's more than a 1.6L Formula One engine (which is 850hp before the hybrid) and those run 75 PSI boost, are tuned & monitored within an inch of their life, and even then *still* sometimes blow up before they make the 5000km service life (to be rebuilt, or more likely, just thrown away)...
@@DragonKnightX12 WRCar has a 35mm (1.37") air restrictor that reduces power of course, but 720whp is probably of the same kind of order of a Rallycross car. However I really doubt Rallycross cars are are using a stock bottom engine!
@@TassieLorenzo Actual I stand corrected. Lamspeed has now built a GR Yaris to 900 HP. I know it's at least for 500 whp you just need swap out the valve springs, head gasket, head bolts, and E85. Most of the internals are all forged, the rods are the weak point. Some people are running 35-40 PSI of boost in these little motors. Most modern 4 bangers seem to be fairly tough. I know that Ford 2.3 does pretty well too. My neighbor had a tuned up ranger, before he traded it for a Mustang. Personally I wouldn't push a small engine, especially since I would have to go far out of my way too find Ethanol. But 93 Oct readily available in my area.
Dont get me wrong, my high mileage ascent cvt has been dependable....but i also have a 6 speed sti that i drive for fun every other day because i can afford multiple cars. At least give the people a transmission that can compete with a pdk. Remeber when the wrx came out to the states and was advertised against a 911 base? As also a p car owner i appreciate what the old wrx and sti models gave bang for buck being half the price of my base p car.
I would wonder if the only way they could even make it is if it met certain emission or economy standards and that was only possible with the CVT. Or they don't have the money to develop a new manual transmission for only a single application like this. Aren't subaru pretty broke? I am not sure if the trans in the BRZ is subaru or toyota made or a joint effort, and maybe they don't have legal rights to put it in this if its a joint development. Idk. Conspiracy theories abound. Maybe the one in the BRZ just can't handle the power, but I've seen people tune and mod their BRZs to 300+ hp and the transmissions seem to be fine.....
My first experience with a CVT was on my 1970 Rupp Roadster they sucked then and they still suck now. A once legendary car model WRX/STI no more. Question for ya does the 2025 WRX /STI still have a real emergency brake operated by steel cable or is it simply a electronic parking brake?
Subaru has been almost exclusively CVT for awhile now in Japan - even the WRX. And this car doesn't look like it's going to be sold outside of Japan, so this news does not surprise me. That said, I'm curious to see how they tune the S210's CVT and how it behaves, despite the 300hp. I've had a tuned CVT VA WRX for the last 4 years and it's still fun when I take it on windy roads, and fast enough to get me around traffic. I personally don't need to launch the car at stoplights or track the car. (Although there are more than a few videos of people in Japan tracking their CVT WRX's if you do a search.)
One thing I noticed with the VB having a larger displacement but lower turbo, was that Subaru intentionally left the potential on the table for the tuner enthusiast to crank it up themselves, which voids any manufacturers warranty if I'm not mistaken, therefore leaving Subaru off the hook for anything that might go wrong. Many have noted that you can get close to 400hp with just mild modifications. The CVT aside, the same modifications could be made to the S210, although it wouldn't be different from any stock VB on the road that has also been tuned. Subaru put the ball in our court if we want the performance upgrades. But given the price point and history of the old S models, it should be something over-the-top directly from Subaru, especially since they are always sold in limited quantities.
Mr. Subaru, Let me run an idea by you. The oil filters for my car use either 29mm or 30mm if I use Japanese made filters. I am finding the nut shape in the filter are not as well defined as in the past. So I have ordered from Koken USA two surface drive sockets in 1/2 drive, 29mm and 30mm. Do you think these socket will have better grip on the filters ?
In one of your previous videos, you mentioned a swivel socket used tomato removing the rear hub assemblies easier. I think it was a 14mm. Do you have a link for that tool? My daughter has a 2014 Forester that needs new bearings. Thanks.
If they actually cared and made a solid built engine they wouldn’t have a horrible stigma of crappy engines. Just needs proper head studs piston and oiling system and that would be a start tbh.
Back when I bought my Crosstrek two years ago, my salesman was telling me the STi would be back as a EV. Which I'm cool with, but it would have to be a bigger vehicle to have the battery that an STi would need.
My modified and manual Forester XT from 2009 is so comfortable and practical, while producing good power and handling great. It's really upsetting that I'll probably never see such a simple, reliable, yet performance oriented SUV be released by any car brand again.
Ok...I get it Robert! But the real question is, if the Pleiades constellation is know as the "Seven Sisters" but Subaru's emblem only has 6 stars...where the hell is the other star?! 🤔
great points about the risk/reward in having young enthisiest consumers. A lot of people watching know or are somene who had situaion example you provided so some of us are to blame if it got to the point of a Class Action against Subaru. With a car /transmission like this they eleminate those kind of customers an someone who owns this will leave well enough alone.
I’ve owned 4 Subarus. A 2003 WRX, 2003 Forester 2.5X, 2007 Forester 2.5X, and a 2012 Legacy 3.6R. All manual transmission except for the Legacy because it wasn’t offered in a manual. It’s not surprising that enthusiasts are gonna beat the crap out of their turbocharged WRX and STi. Subaru should have improved on the EJ25 and made the cars lighter. Or offer the EZ36 in turbocharged form with a manual in the Legacy. I would much rather have the naturally aspirated EZ36 in my WRX than the turbo 2.0L. If Subaru would build a real truck or SUV with a body on full perimeter frame and stick a flat 8 in it I would buy it. That will never happen. I would have bought a BRZ had they made it mid engined. I agree Subaru just doesn’t care about performance any more.
You are absolutely right, they get tired of being blamed for the problems of stupid people blowing up their engines due to poor maintenance or mods. The EJ is an amazing engine, you just have irresponsible owners
I was once a big Subaru fan, but I'm at the point now where I just don't have the patience for excuses and lack of development. I get it if you baby the car and are 100% on top of maintenance to the point where you over maintain the car a bit sure you can have a reliable STI. Enthusiasts want the high power fun to drive rally car for the road STI that it once was. We also want this without worrying about blowing a motor or getting dropped by modern hot hatches. It sucks when some teenager rocks up next to you in a GTI and drops you because Subarus have been stuck at the 300 horse mark forever and everyone else has moved on. It sucks that with a few bolt ons golf Rs and GTIs drastically destroy STIs. It sucks that toyota released a GR corola that is basically a corola STI and is way more enthusiast friendly with less 1 cylinder and -0.9 L of displacement and it makes pretty much the same power more reliably. It sucks that I have to do some basic oil pick up mods and cooling mods if I want to track an STI to reduce the chances of blowing the motor. It sucks driving such a cooling looking and sound car that just doesn't have the bite to back up the bark. They look so cool and so fast but they are late 2000s definition of fast. There are just way better options out there that are faster, more practical and more reliable even when beat on. The only reason to buy a WRX is nostalgia and being a fan of the brand, that is becoming harder to do with how they treat fans of the brand. From an enthusiast perspective I just don't see a good reason to even look at WRXs anymore, and I hate it because I want a good reason to love it but can't find one. The reasons to hate it are growing longer and longer. So sad to see. Hopefully if everything goes full electric they will at least release a good eSTI or whatever.
To be fair, in 2015 I bought the WRX over the STi because by 2015 I HATED the EJ25 engine. The road to a safe & reliable 400HP in the EJ25 platform was way too complicated compared to the FA engines.
Those never come to the USDM. Subaru still sells the 07 sti trans which would be purfect in this vb. Especially since they left provisions for the sti mechanical shifter linkage.
The only possible logical reason to do this I can think of is potentially the further addition of a hybrid system. But that might actually be cool if they did it with a manual instead
I think its more like complacency, due to lack of competition in the segment, as well as Subaru wanting to make the gas powered vehicles less appealing, and generate more excitement for what ever STe EVs bring to the table.
Yeah, I'm kinda tired of my Subaru as well. I can't seem to go more than a month without something going on with my GD. Another misfire, the passenger door broke again, the alarm clicker won't work. It's a fun car, but sheesh, I'm tired of constantly having to fix it.
As someone who has physical limitations that makes driving a manual difficult, I’m more than okay with their being options for different transmissions. (I drive an auto GR86 and enjoy it for what it is.) That being said, if there is an auto…why a CVT?? That’s so disappointing even from someone like me who prefers autos for my personal limitations
hey, not rellevant, but, I have a question: can you use the high torque fluid in the tr690 in the 2.5l NA outbacks? I was thinking it would help it have more power flow. I do not know, however, so asking you would there be any problems? less lifespan? or would it work great? love to know! ( I have the 2011 outback ,if that helps)
Really wish they had a cvt designed for 450wtq so they could tow reliably a reasonable weight on other than level surfaces. Im currently towing a 1500lb to 1700lb boat with the trailer and stuff. With my sti. Because i dont want to use my forester sport even though i added a large cooler.
I think in part since the enthusiast crowd is smaller and less profitable they will probably not build a car to cater to all their demands. However I personally think the horsepower and transmission specs are due to EPA restrictions.
Well, if you are Subaru, and your enthusiast base blew up their cars and then sued en masse, it would not make you as a manufacturer very interested in continuing to build that product. The abuse and subsequent failures of these cars killed the WRX STI. Enthusiasts have themselves to blame...
I used to think like you. I bought my STI used with a brand new engine because the first one blew up at 96k miles. At the time I also thought it was “abuse” and improper mods that killed these cars. I babied my car, I stalled air/oil separator, bigger radiator, checked oil every fuel stop, used the best oil. I rarely ever did full WOT pulls.. maybe 4 times in the 4 years I owned it. I even got a professional tune meant specifically to remove any lean situations that would lead to knock. Yet one day, it spun a bearing because the oil pickup tube failed due to shitty manufacturing. I was in a Subaru group and literally everyone except maybe one or two guys were AT LEAST on their second engine. Always either cylinder 4 ringland failure or failed oil pickup tube. When I had the accessport on the stock tune, it knocked like crazy for no reason, which is why I ended up paying for a custom tune. Not for power but for reliability. Honda, Acura, ford, Chevrolet, Toyota, VW, Mercedes, BMW all make sports cars that get modified and abused, yet those cars don’t have the reputation of blowing up their engines if you drive them like sports cars. The evo was the main competitor to the wrx and it never had engine problems despite being driven as hard as anything else. You can beat up an LS engine in a corvette or camaro and no one complains about them blowing up unless they’re being pushed to the extreme. Subaru has known for 20 years that their pistons and pickup tubes had issues. And they refused to address it and instead always blamed the customers. They could have improved piston design or the pickup tube welding issue but they decided to ignore it. There are entire brands of aftermarket parts that exists to address these common failures. This is and always has been a Subaru problem and they continue to refuse any responsibility.
@ it WAS sad and that’s why I sold it. I couldn’t enjoy it after I rebuilt the block. That was 5 years ago and I just bought a civic type R. Somehow I don’t feel afraid my engine is going to blow up by driving it like it’s mean to.
My guess is that they want to use the 6-speed but considering that the only model in their lineup that uses a manual transmission at this point is the WRX and not much demand for it over the past months they cant produce the 6-speed tranny at large numbers at a reasonable cost so they went with the CVT.
It drives me crazy how Subaru discontinued the STi. I loved my 2015. They need to bring it back with 400hp and a manual and I'd literally throw money at them to have one. Reality is it's never gonna happen so motorcycles are how I enjoy myself now. Sports cars are dying hard.
As an aging Outback owner, I don't think you are far off the mark. Given 40 KM/Hr speed limits in our town, who needs the higher horsepower? All I want are the features that make Subaru a great winter car in the snowy part of Canada I live in.
Can anyone recommend a engine temp & oil level HUD for a 1st gen Crosstrek ? I don't understand how Subaru doesn't have temp and level gauge displays in their vehicles. Especially considering their being prone to blown gaskets ( My 2014 Crosstrek blew a Head Gasket at 100K miles ) and oil consumption issues. The warning lights they currently have are so small and often don't even come on until after it's too late ( engine overheating ). It makes no sense at all... Please advise!
In 2022, I would have bought an STI but Subaru decided to end the STI in 2021 with zero warning. Your theory of what Subaru is doing with the S210 by going backward in performance is likely. I was thinking Subaru is one of those troubled car companies like I believe MItsubishi is/was. I didn't know about Subaru losing on the warranty claims which you told us about which also makes sense of the issue. I am next considering an Outback, however, depending on how good or bad the forthcoming '25 4Runner turns out to be, but could go the new Land Cruiser route instead.
I tend to agree with you. Year on year their sales (across all models) are down and I wonder if the WRX makes them much money. I think you could apply similar logic to the Impreza, I wonder if they will ditch that, they seem to be all in with SUV's and their variants. Even the over bloated EV Solterra is a humungous Outbacky/Crosstrek looking thing.
The thing is that they have done the market research and these decisions are a result of that. Young people aren't buying sports sedans at the same rate that they used to. In fact, even the adjacent sports car market is in decline on the mid to low tier price ranges. Older people buy Subarus now so the brand has to cater to new buyers. Not people who want an STI so they can buy one fully depreciated 8 years post release. Plus, an STI doesn't make sense in this competitive environment. If the WRX TS is almost 50k and STI's were generally WRX + 10k that would make it a 60k vehicle. There's no way they could peddle a souped up shitbox for 60k when there are a bunch of better cars with nicer interiors in that price range. It would be the same competitive environment that the WRX finds itself in right now.
So call me crazy but I think they’ll throw a 6-Speed manual upon production but using the TAS as rage bait to see where they stand data wise with potential buyers. Stellantis did the same with the hemi but announced they’re going to keep it in Durango models (and this I can’t say with certainty but potentially new model chargers will get it (with a fabricated engine bay not made for an electric engine))
So for sports cars in the future if this happens to the US wrx as well, I guess I'd have to go BRZ, or go with an older Subaru. The wife wants a land yacht though so I might be getting a *gasp* domestic automobile and then switching to a smaller Subaru for my own personal car, instead of my Legacy Limited 36r.
I tell people all the time. If you drive it like a race car, you have to maintain it like a race car. I hate if they discontinue it. I love rally racing, and nothing out performs a Subaru in rally.
Seems like they want to sell $30,000 2.0L Crosstreks and $40,000 Wilderness Foresters and Outback’s which come with CVTs. Normal cars sell like hotcakes at insanely high prices it doesn’t make sense to invest all the R&D and warranty bills on 20,000 cars sold each year. This is probably one of the last gas WRX cars if I had to guess and they’ll probably just sell an STe E.V. in the future to be a sportier rally car Tesla competitor
something like 98% of new cars sold in Japan are automatics, so that might explain lack of manual option. also I'm guessing they're transitioning to EV/Hybrid and not R&D-ing any new ICE cars at this point. they're riding off into the ICE sunset, letting it peter out.
I don't know, that seems a super round about and costly way to wind them down. But it is quite apparent that their overall focus on performance has waned especially pulling out of WRC years ago. I mean, I wondered why they would keep WRX on things as a label at that point and go back to GT and such, but its brand recognition I guess.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
After watching this, I'm hugging and coddling my 2005 STi even harder than before. Thank God I work at a dealership and I can keep her alive well past 400k miles if needed.
Keep it 4ver
Definitely hold onto it man cuz those things are usually abused beyond repair at this point in time. I’m sure it’s not so rare that buying another in good condition is impossible… but the cost 😬
I think a lot of people aren’t understanding the reality of the current market in Japan. Japan is continuing to become an aging population with manufacturers seeing low manual transmission car sales year after year. I think Subaru is targeting an aging market who prefer automatic cars but prefer some performance upgrades and limited production editions like the S210. As Americans we hate it but in Japan, people are now preferring cars like this.
This is an underrated comment. I think the insight here is very on point, like it or not.
This is definitely a huge part of it. Also, you have all the manufacturing headaches that come with having to allow for two completely different styles of gearbox in your designs and in your assembly line. Commonality and similarity of parts have a huge impact on manufacturing.
Even in USA, manual sales make it really hard to justify the R&D cost.
They live in their own world. We need Subaru of America to grow an accertive attitude towards no fluff vb wrx
My dad is 82, he still drives and prefers manual transmission.
The S210 is only for the Japanese market, and there's no manual option for the WRX in Japan. So it's not surprising they aren't offering the S210 with a manual.
The S200 models have recently been coming stateside.
@@poodabranmodels? Just one, S209.
Been saying this since it was announced, why is anyone surprised it's not a manual? Like yeah I agree it would have been nice to do a dct as a once off given it's only 500 units, but still not surprised.
Thank you for bringing some logic to this conversation
Rip EVO and Sti. Hello to Toyota GR!
If they are concerned about the cars getting beat up by "enthusiasts " why run a CVT. I would think the manual can handle the beating and last longer.
CVT are junk,but Subaru is going down with a sinking ship by still using them.
The CVT is perfectly fine for what they are and in the cars Subaru meant them for.
@poodabran Meh. Most owners might ride up a sketchy campsite road at best once a year. Subarus don't have the angles, power, or low range to do much more than what's called "softroading". Same as any other lifted awd crossover out today.
@@br9760 CVT is still garbage.
@@svgs650r Earth. You need to reread what he said. They are fine in regular commuter cars that Subaru puts into. They don't really belong in a road performance car that sees racing and rally use. Now unless it is a fantastic state of the art CVT, a manual is better and still more fun for sure.
the subaru 6 speed manual is exellent. I do not care if a cvt is faster and more efficient I care about smiles per gallon, car control and fun.
If Subaru cares about going above and beyond by going above and beyond EPA standards, this and that is more efficient but also faster blah blah blah, they should just stop making the WRX, STI and any car like it in general then. That’s the WHOLE point of these cars, made to be fun, and people buy them because of that. I’m not a Subaru owner but I feel for the car community on this one. Shame
This guy really said "smiles" per gallon. So ghey.
Right. If you put efficiency before dynamic and fun factor, you should drive a hybrid
Excellent? I don't know about that, the Aisin 6-speed is significantly better is it not? I'd be interested in measurements of gear diameters, thickness, hardness but my understanding is that the Subaru uses significantly smaller gears than in the Aisin. I wonder how the Subaru gears compare to what's in a Lancer Evo gearbox or turbo-era Civic Type R gearbox?
Heck even the Renault PK4 manual gearbox (in the Megane RS250 and onwards up to the RS300, i.e., 250-300hp) was no longer feeble like the Renault NFJ box in older turbo Meganes, I wonder how that stacks up to the Subaru box.
@@dannyrbailey I don't understand why the EPA is going after sports cars and not the massive SUVs and trucks making 20mpg that so many more people are buying when they don't need one.
That is 100% correct. Subaru is NOT building cars for enthusiasts anymore.
More for rainbow people based on their ads.
Do you even BRZ?
I've seen a Subaru shaped like a Porsche in the street (Europe) the other day, but I can't even find which model it is on their website...
Not a WRX, STI, etc the front and the whole car was really lower.
@@Lycanthroperage95👎
Most of their cars never have been for enthusiasts. They sell tiny, cheap cvt econoboxes and rebadged Daihatsus in Japan that's where a lot of their money comes from to make a few cool models to sell around the world. Even here in the US most of their sales go to basic models like the Crosstrek with the 2.slow. Why would they go out of their way for the enthusiasts who just break their cars and sue them about it when nobody else has any complaints about their warranty and what they build?
I think you're correct with the conspiracy about discontinuing the WRX. What they fail to notice is us consumers that love the cars also have families. That means we have Foresters or Ascents too. If there's no reason for me to stay for the sports cars, i might as well leave completely. I could easily support another manufacturer
Thanks!
Of course they don't care about enthusiasts anymore. Their top 3 models (Outback, Forrester, Crosstrek) all sold more than 150k each in the United States for year 2023. WRXs sold were 25k that same year. They're just following the money. Hardly a controversial business model.
It is because people hate the plastic cladding and the ugly rear tail lights that they bought at the Honda bargain bin. Their sales would be higher if they continued the previous generation, the dealership I went to recently still had 2022 (Orange) WRXs and a couple 2023 models. They were offering free paint matching for all of the plastic and still are not able to move them. The salesman I talked to said he sold twice as many fourth gens than this current generation for the end of it's life when sales slumped in anticipation for the next generation.
@@dsmbilly3690Hopefully Subaru does a midcycle refresh and fixes the design.
Nissan still makes the GTR and that market is tiny, the cars are open floor constructed by a single engineer and they still make it for the legacy and the pride in their place in the culture. Subaru seems to just wanna roll over and don't say it's cause they're small because they now are backed largely by Toyota. These cars deserve to still exist they're what put them on the map.
@dsmbilly3690 the irony is that the new generation WRX has about the same power as last generations STI. and more potential with upgrades. Basically the va sti's dealers sold before the redesign were over priced compared to the new WRX. A body refresh might help them but like Mr. Subaru said I think they're self sabotaging to deplete interest and bow out which would be EXTREMELY unfortunate
@@dsmbilly3690 I hate that big center screen more than any cladding but I think the rest of the design is aging well especially for the Levorg that we really should have gotten. I see a good number of VBs on the road now though. More often than I see VAs being driven... those are just sitting at shops and wholesale lots now.
THAT PIANO BLACK CLADDING IS GOING TO SCRATCH BEFORE IT'S FIRST TAKEN OFF THE LOT
Toyota owning a sizeable stake in subaru is probably telling them to step down. Toyota is focusing on re-introducing several enthusiast name plates. The celica, MR2 and supra mark 6.
also the GR Corolla/Yaris, which already directly competes with the sti/wrx.
A great video Mr Subaru. I own a 2020 WRX,/STI and I'm @87K. I'm a 55 year old USNAVY retired veteran out here in Oceanside Ca. I'm stock all the way. This Bluebaru is my daily driver and I'm really enjoying it. Coming from the 2017 WRX in 2022 to the 2020 STI is a day and night difference. Happy new year brother. Subaru in my opinion just needs to make another STI. Take care.
100% agree. If it had a 6 speed and at least 350hp it would be way more appealing
Unfortunately you can’t get a manual VB WRX in Japan, WRXs have actually been CVT only since the VA (?) over there
fair take mr Subaru. it seems they are done with the vape bro/clapped out ricer stereotype. they want to appeal to families who go camping. that's where the money is. and that's what corporations do. they make money for investors. sucks for us, but that's the reality.
One suggestion, need to fix your audio level. Your video audio is always on the low side.
There was something wrong with the sound. I felt like I was going deaf. Like speaking through a soup can.
Agreed
As a Legacy enthusiast, remind me about how Subaru forgets about a model and then ends up abandoning it.
@Smithcraft1 ikr their flagship brand that literally put it's name on the map. No further improvements were made to it no advertisements for it just say well the suvs sell more so yh we go there
@Smithcraft1 Times change and the majority do not buy sedans anymore. It's the same trend for all automakers.
@steve8803 times do change, but when you completely ignore a line if cars, for nearly a decade, and then try to revitalize it with a performance model?
I couldn't even get Legacy stuff from ambassadors at meet ups!
@@steve8803 dude, look at the new Camry, it's still selling like crazy, the problem with the Legacy is it gradually became less and less sporty, more bloated and uglier looking ever since the fifth gen Legacy debut.
I agree! I've heard so many people state that Subaru discontinued the Legacy because sedans don't sell. That's a lie! Look at the Honda Accord & the Toyota Camry. Heck, I just bought a Camry and my wife has a Forester. I wanted to buy a Legacy but personally I think it's just been an ugly car lately :/. Subaru clearly didn't care about saving the Legacy; there still is a demand for sedans.
I'm clearly in the minority, but I like Subaru's JDM market offerings/approach with the tS STI treatments of their JDM cars that give all the suspension tweaks (Brembo brakes, larger wheels, CVT-cooler, struts, springs, pillow ball bushings on trailing links/arms, flexible draw stiffeners, flexible frame braces, flexible strut tower braces, etc.) of the complete cars (like the S209 brought here in the US), except with their "normal" powertrain/drivetrain. I've gone all-in to replicate this approach on my 2018 Forester XT 2.0L Turbo. I have installed all those things I mentioned above and even though it's "only" 250hp/258ft-lb tq with a CVT; I think it's just as fun as the 2015 WRX 6-speed manual I had before, but with more practicality for every day life stuff.
I think you are probably correct. Also have to factor in what kind of regulatory pressure there are under from the WEF crowd.
Had a 2012 STi and loved it. Back then there was talk of Subaru not innovating the car but merely repacking it with each body style…pretty sure CVT is not what anyone meant by innovating lol.
I get it but I hate to see it dwindling…it always felt like it was comfortable in what it was…an exceptional rally car brawler at a decently affordable price…now it just seems like it doesn’t know what it wants to be.
If they get rid of it that would be a bummer… the new WRX is actually a great car, they did a great job on it. I’ve had a couple other generation wrx’s in the past and this new one is the best I’ve driven… I decided to get a new limited.
Have you ever driven an 04-07 STI?
This car would bomb over here. I think the tS is a not so subtle hint that this is all they can get out of it anymore for under 50K...and I think it's also at the limit of what people can stomach price-wise for a WRX.
It feels like the spirit of what it is supposed to be is missing, the Group A mentality is totally gone. Rally cars were brought up from humble econo-boxes. What would a full VB STi be at...60-65K MSRP? For an STi of yesteryear? I just don't think a fully STi would do well any more for what they want to sell it for.
pretty much why I just traded my VB for a 24 Golf R w/ manual. Officially gave up waiting for an actual STI to return.
Horsepower is reduced because of the CVT. CVT would not tolerate the higher HP engines.
The Subaru transmission that isn't Aisin-designed (STI and BRZ) is not rated for 300hp. The CVT already made 300hp in the Levorg before the SPT upgrade, so they're just going with what they know works. Plus fewer people drive manuals as time progresses.
Regardless, it's a prototype not meant for the North American market.
It's mainly the torque that CVTs have trouble with. That's why when you see CVT vehicles go off road they have a tendency to sit in one spot even if the pedal is floored (going up steep hills, if one wheel is up against a rock, etc.) They have to limit torque so the belt in the CVT doesn't slip.
@@scott8919 CVTs were banned in F1 in 1994 for being too good. CVTs don't inherently not handle torque; the designs limits for costs and supplies for mass production and profit margins are why they aren't handling higher limits.
Add to that, people tend to put the cart before the horse. They were adding power and engaging the trans in an abusive way ... without understanding of th engineering, limitations, heat soak, lubrication requirement changes ...
Let me break it down a bit more ... the CVT fluid was designed for the loads they sent the car out with. The lubricant was engineered for the heat and shear resistance at loads and pressures the stock car would do. When you take it and increase power by 20% to it while not changing fluid, not adding extra cooling, and being ABUSIVE ... the transmission will not last.
It is the same b.s. people pull on rotaries. They don't learn anything, they add boost, beat the hell out of it, then whine when something goes wrong ... but they didn't improve the cooling, ignition, fuel, use 87 octane, etc.
How many people destroy epicycle trans from being morons? Many. How many destroy clutches? Engines?
So we blame the CVT? Sounds like bias and misunderstanding.
I prefer manual tbc. But I respect a well designed CVT that doens't have fake shift points as something that would be WONDERFUL to drive if your leg is so fucked you can't push down even a light clutch for long (try surviving major heart failure and try to push a really stiff clutch pedal for the first few months for example; but that is some people's forever; so autos/cvts will always be needed in society for even performance nutjobs like us).
I wish for a car enthusiast community that shits on things a bit less is all.
I will complain just as much about how idiotic it is CVTs shift as it is to have a 6 speed with a highway cruise rpm at 3k+ still. How many gears do we need before we can have proper overdrives in them?
@@ChanoWilliams Precisely! The rumours are actually that it is the Subaru 6-speed manual that has the lower torque limit *not* the Subaru CVT (though that also has a limit, but it's higher than the manual). The Levorg which is CVT only has more power in Japan than any of the exported manual models.
I see people above saying the Subaru 6-speed is "excellent" but I don't understand how that is true? Is it not significantly worse than the Aisin 6-speed (like in the old WRX STi), and the only reason Subaru use the in-house 6-speed is because they can make it themselves and it is cheap?
isn't the CVT invented by some F1 team decades ago? if so, it depends on the tolerances it was built for!
The good thing is The older Models will be better taken care of and become rare,
If you want fun to drive, you can't go past a GC8 or GM8 WRX STi!
If Subaru would replace the WRX with the Subaru Sportwagon WRX in they sell Mexico, I would buy it for sure. I love the performance aspect of Subies, but its ability to function as whatever you need to be is why I drive one. Not only would it appeal to the enthusiast, but it would also fill the wagon spot the New Outback redesign is leaving behind.
The wagon is also CVT only though, sadly.
@TassieLorenzo In Mexico they do have a 6-Speed Base Option, it's made in the same factory as the WRX.
@@TheMr.Logan9 Nice!
Or Crosstrek XT/Wilderness with the WRX powertrains.
Are those Honda Civic tail lights?
I don’t think the “S”210 should be wearing the STI badge but we should keep in mind that WRX has been available with CVT and only CVT in Japanese market for a while. A WRX variant for Japanese market will most likely come with a CVT, so there’s really nothing to be surprised at.
Now the sad part is that the fact this factory modded WRX S4 is called S204 probably means that we won’t be getting a new STI at least for the current gen.
New member here. Glad I found you. I have a 2019 Crosstrek that has 18,131 miles on it today. I purchased this New off the showroom floor in Jan. Of 2019. It sits most all the time. When it does get drove it is all highways miles. The miles on it are from vacations with each being around 4 thousand miles. Any other time it sits 8n the g argue covered on a battery tender. It gets oil changes once a year. I like the car, it has given us no problems. We don't need it for we have newer cars we drive daily. My wife will not sell it. I say so long nice knowing you. I really like subaru. My Crosstrek gets over 38 mpg. I do baby it, I am almost 70. I built engines back in the day. Went to school for this.
I remember back in 2017 (worked at Ford) i was asked to diag a 2016 WRX for a possible transmission issue, found it was slipping and that it was using a CVT, i was like WTF? i really thought it was a joke, nope!!! it only had 8K on it and the reason we got it was the Subaru dealer was so full, they payed us to do the warranty work on it.
I started looking into this all and was shocked that Subaru thought this was a good idea, i'm still lost for words as to why they did this and why they are still doing this today. Ford learned there listen with CVT's years ago, and we already stay busy with Nissan, Honda, Subaru, GM, Kia CVTs failing as it is, and we're just a Ford dealer.
Ken Block was a great influence went to Audi probably for this same reason may he rest in peace.
I remember a few year ago their power target was in to 280-300kW range. I think that providing that power level with a warranty meant that, due to the low volume, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. I was holding out for one of those cars...
Myself and quite a few friends who also do RallyCross or Stage rally are just absolutely fed up with Subaru.
This is a whole bunch of guys that were die-hard Subaru guys. Constantly buying parts going to events, both rally oriented and street/enthusiast related as well. And all but one guy has completely abandoned them.
They built a large segment of their image and brand on a certain type of customer, and then completely turned their back on them. Actually, strike that. They didn’t just turn their back, they seem to be actively punishing them and trying to distance themselves from them.
It's a shame!!!!!! WRX was such a nice car 20 years ago. Guess I'll stick with the older ones would love to get ahold of a 6 speed for my 96 outback it's got a 5 speed ej22 in it now keep us informed love the videos!!!!!!!!!
Those EJ22Ts are bullet proof!
@@fredastaire6156 yea my second Subaru my first was a brat back in 97 don't remember the year but that thing wouldn't get out of its own way lol. I'm in the middle of head gaskets right now already did the water pump and timing belt first head gasket I have done in around 20 years lol
Less power than the S209 and CVT only. Shameful.
💯💯💯
I can’t wait to get a CVT WRX! One of the most fun cars I’ve ever driven and can commute in it, too! Just shitty on gas.
I'd argue that Subaru has far more warranty issues with other vehicle models than WRX/STI at the current time. Cracking windshields, failed coolant temp regulators, delaminating entertainment screens, battery-killing parasitic electrical draws, wonky electronics in general, etc. prevail throughout other models. Performance models are no longer needed to draw to the brand as they've become a mainstream product these days and that's the market they're shooting for.
As the owner of a 2022 Forester eboxer I can confirm this.
Anecdotal. Subaru has always had above average reliability and safety ratings for the past decade at least and just got rated THE most reliable car brand by consumer reports who put them above Toyota and Honda.
@@Crazy8ts I’m aware of that. But regarding reliability, that’s probably not including the eboxer which isn’t available in the US. Ofc it’s not telling to judge from a personal perspective when looking at issues. Safety ratings for Subaru are great in the EU also. Regarding reliability there’s simply not enough Subaru cars around here. I’ve had a very mixed experience with several warranty claims and 2 open ones looked at soon.
I'm pissed they don't make the Forester in XT guise anymore.
Forester XT manual could literally be the perfect car if they put the work in.
Something about lesbians and stick shifts according to marketing .
@hugieboi I still have my manual '07 XT. I can't find anything else like it. I'll probably drive it till Rockauto stops stocking replacement parts.
@@JP-hr3xq I like how Subaru made sporty versions of crossovers when crossovers in general were still nowhere near as popular as they are now, yet right now when crossovers have become really popular Subaru doesn't make any high performance crossovers anymore, even if there's a market for them if they're priced right.
@aaronbryan5095 yeah man it's so sad. At least there's still an Outback XT.
It would be interesting to see if they will still offer a manual for the STI. I think Mr.Subaru's opinion has some merit. Basically, Subaru wants a new approach. Less frills. Just simple, safe and reliable. A mild sports STI is not the worst thing in today's car market. It would be nice to see a manual available. I have a feeling this will be such a road car in comparison to other Subaru's
I'm pretty sure that without even watching this video and only reading the title, I know where this video is going to go.
Maybe I'm nuts, but it seems like car manufacturers used to overbuild and undertune cars for emissions, knowing that their target market will mod the cars. It seems like bean counters have removed that overbuilding. Now, when you do anything to a new car, it becomes a time bomb. I'm sorry, but if you mod a new car and it pops, don't blame it on the manufacturer! If you can't afford it, fix it, leave it stock, and just enjoy it. I know, crazy talk.
Is it possible to inspect the rod bearings without removing the engine from the car? Remove the upper oil pan and remove the caps...
So so sad, it’s like Subaru saw the GR Yaris, GR Corolla and the Type R Civic and just threw their hands up. I also agree with you about the warranty claims, what they don’t realize, brand loyalty is “a thing” and if you have a great experience in your early 20s with a manufacturer you will come back to it no matter what!! Subaru is setting itself up for a slow death in the next 20 years, it’s the enthusiasts that probably kept them alive this long!
I believe you are right, Mr. Subaru. But I hope you are mistaken. If the warranty history of the cars is a large part of the problem, I'd be fine with them building an STi with no warranty offered, or an abbreviated warranty, such as 90 days.
Something else to consider, gov't fuel economy mandates. A gas guzzler like the WRX/STi makes it harder for the rest of the fleet to make the numbers. Get rid of the gov't interference and it would be a lot easier to offer a real hot rod.
But even if they did bring an STI to the US again, it'd be $60k, and offer less performance than many other similarly priced cars. I, too, think Subaru is simply done with the market. Pulling support from WRC was the first big indicator.
This is keeping my 2020 STi value up :)
I hate people talking smack about the cvt. Please understand that if Subaru learns to bullet proof a cvt it would destroy 7,8,10 speeds super easily.
Subaru isn't the only manufacturer doing this kind of stuff.
I think it would be cool to see Subaru Build something that doesn't necessarily have a ton of horsepower out the gate, But perhaps something that has a solid lock and crank setup. So the tune community can have fun with it. Like toyota did with the 2j. Just under two hundred horsepower but capable of a lot more once you start tinkering.
I don't like your chances, sadly! Nobody is going to make an overbuilt engine these days, not even Toyota (see GR Yaris/GR Corolla). It is all about the narrowest bearings, thinnest oil etc to minimise friction and maximise MPG (for CAFE), which means an engine that is already "on the limit" from the factory.
@@TassieLorenzo It's funny you say that, because the G16E in the GR Yaris/Corolla is actually very overbuilt for a 3 cyl. Shops have gotten it putting out 720whp with stock bottom. Just needs a built head , injectectors, ethanol, and a big turbo.
The K20C1 in the Type-R is also pretty stout.
As is the B888 in the VWs. The Golf R with it's bigger turbo can push over 400whp with just a intake and tune. VW also another version with a even bigger turbo in the GTI Clubsport that they won't bring over too the States for some reason.
Even the FA24 in the VB actually tunes pretty good, and has been pushed to 600whp.
@@DragonKnightX12 I don't know about that! I agree that 400whp is fine on the EA888 and K20C. But 720whp on a G16E for how long, how many seasons of road racing or seasons of rallying? At least a full season before a rebuild? That's more than a Toyota WRCar (a lot more).
In the video "What's Killing Your Toyota G16E GTS Engine? GR Yaris & GR Corolla" by PIRAS Motorsport, they don't seem to think the G16E engine is all that strong? 🤔
Same goes for how long a stock FA24 can hold 600whp.
I don't like drag racing numbers that the engine can only hold for a handful of pulls, it seems unrealistic.
Someone was even someone saying a G16E can hold 1000hp on the PIRAS comments! That's more than a 1.6L Formula One engine (which is 850hp before the hybrid) and those run 75 PSI boost, are tuned & monitored within an inch of their life, and even then *still* sometimes blow up before they make the 5000km service life (to be rebuilt, or more likely, just thrown away)...
@@DragonKnightX12 WRCar has a 35mm (1.37") air restrictor that reduces power of course, but 720whp is probably of the same kind of order of a Rallycross car. However I really doubt Rallycross cars are are using a stock bottom engine!
@@TassieLorenzo Actual I stand corrected. Lamspeed has now built a GR Yaris to 900 HP.
I know it's at least for 500 whp you just need swap out the valve springs, head gasket, head bolts, and E85.
Most of the internals are all forged, the rods are the weak point.
Some people are running 35-40 PSI of boost in these little motors.
Most modern 4 bangers seem to be fairly tough. I know that Ford 2.3 does pretty well too. My neighbor had a tuned up ranger, before he traded it for a Mustang.
Personally I wouldn't push a small engine, especially since I would have to go far out of my way too find Ethanol.
But 93 Oct readily available in my area.
I do agree with you Mr.Subaru, they want to stay with family friendly vehicles that appeal to the general public and that sell for them 👍
Dont get me wrong, my high mileage ascent cvt has been dependable....but i also have a 6 speed sti that i drive for fun every other day because i can afford multiple cars. At least give the people a transmission that can compete with a pdk. Remeber when the wrx came out to the states and was advertised against a 911 base? As also a p car owner i appreciate what the old wrx and sti models gave bang for buck being half the price of my base p car.
@@davidchoeun I mean, in theory a CVT is faster than a PDK, it just can't handle huge power in chain and pulley form.
I would wonder if the only way they could even make it is if it met certain emission or economy standards and that was only possible with the CVT. Or they don't have the money to develop a new manual transmission for only a single application like this. Aren't subaru pretty broke? I am not sure if the trans in the BRZ is subaru or toyota made or a joint effort, and maybe they don't have legal rights to put it in this if its a joint development. Idk. Conspiracy theories abound. Maybe the one in the BRZ just can't handle the power, but I've seen people tune and mod their BRZs to 300+ hp and the transmissions seem to be fine.....
My first experience with a CVT was on my 1970 Rupp Roadster they sucked then and they still suck now. A once legendary car model WRX/STI no more. Question for ya does the 2025 WRX /STI still have a real emergency brake operated by steel cable or is it simply a electronic parking brake?
Subaru has been almost exclusively CVT for awhile now in Japan - even the WRX. And this car doesn't look like it's going to be sold outside of Japan, so this news does not surprise me. That said, I'm curious to see how they tune the S210's CVT and how it behaves, despite the 300hp. I've had a tuned CVT VA WRX for the last 4 years and it's still fun when I take it on windy roads, and fast enough to get me around traffic. I personally don't need to launch the car at stoplights or track the car. (Although there are more than a few videos of people in Japan tracking their CVT WRX's if you do a search.)
One thing I noticed with the VB having a larger displacement but lower turbo, was that Subaru intentionally left the potential on the table for the tuner enthusiast to crank it up themselves, which voids any manufacturers warranty if I'm not mistaken, therefore leaving Subaru off the hook for anything that might go wrong. Many have noted that you can get close to 400hp with just mild modifications. The CVT aside, the same modifications could be made to the S210, although it wouldn't be different from any stock VB on the road that has also been tuned. Subaru put the ball in our court if we want the performance upgrades. But given the price point and history of the old S models, it should be something over-the-top directly from Subaru, especially since they are always sold in limited quantities.
Mr. Subaru, Let me run an idea by you. The oil filters for my car use either 29mm or 30mm if I use Japanese made filters. I am finding the nut shape in the filter are not as well defined as in the past. So I have ordered from Koken USA two surface drive sockets in 1/2 drive, 29mm and 30mm. Do you think these socket will have better grip on the filters ?
In one of your previous videos, you mentioned a swivel socket used tomato removing the rear hub assemblies easier. I think it was a 14mm. Do you have a link for that tool? My daughter has a 2014 Forester that needs new bearings. Thanks.
If they actually cared and made a solid built engine they wouldn’t have a horrible stigma of crappy engines. Just needs proper head studs piston and oiling system and that would be a start tbh.
Subaru could just start using Toyota engines, inline-fours and V6s... But then would it still be a Subaru?
All Subaru had to do was to put in a 8 speed auto with FA24 and they would meet emissions and performance
Back when I bought my Crosstrek two years ago, my salesman was telling me the STi would be back as a EV. Which I'm cool with, but it would have to be a bigger vehicle to have the battery that an STi would need.
My modified and manual Forester XT from 2009 is so comfortable and practical, while producing good power and handling great. It's really upsetting that I'll probably never see such a simple, reliable, yet performance oriented SUV be released by any car brand again.
Ok...I get it Robert!
But the real question is, if the Pleiades constellation is know as the "Seven Sisters" but Subaru's emblem only has 6 stars...where the hell is the other star?! 🤔
"the seventh Star is the friends we made along the way!"
I think you hit the nail on the head. Subaru don't care about sports cars anymore.
great points about the risk/reward in having young enthisiest consumers. A lot of people watching know or are somene who had situaion example you provided so some of us are to blame if it got to the point of a Class Action against Subaru. With a car /transmission like this they eleminate those kind of customers an someone who owns this will leave well enough alone.
That damn car has been my dream car since i was 10 i always wanted the 94 sti and i had to settle for a 2020 and now they do this
I’ve owned 4 Subarus. A 2003 WRX, 2003 Forester 2.5X, 2007 Forester 2.5X, and a 2012 Legacy 3.6R. All manual transmission except for the Legacy because it wasn’t offered in a manual. It’s not surprising that enthusiasts are gonna beat the crap out of their turbocharged WRX and STi. Subaru should have improved on the EJ25 and made the cars lighter. Or offer the EZ36 in turbocharged form with a manual in the Legacy. I would much rather have the naturally aspirated EZ36 in my WRX than the turbo 2.0L. If Subaru would build a real truck or SUV with a body on full perimeter frame and stick a flat 8 in it I would buy it. That will never happen. I would have bought a BRZ had they made it mid engined. I agree Subaru just doesn’t care about performance any more.
You are absolutely right, they get tired of being blamed for the problems of stupid people blowing up their engines due to poor maintenance or mods. The EJ is an amazing engine, you just have irresponsible owners
we all know this is leading up to a true WRX STI … just instant gratification getting in the way
4% of new car sales....Subaru is done with the WRX/STI.
THIS
I was once a big Subaru fan, but I'm at the point now where I just don't have the patience for excuses and lack of development. I get it if you baby the car and are 100% on top of maintenance to the point where you over maintain the car a bit sure you can have a reliable STI. Enthusiasts want the high power fun to drive rally car for the road STI that it once was. We also want this without worrying about blowing a motor or getting dropped by modern hot hatches.
It sucks when some teenager rocks up next to you in a GTI and drops you because Subarus have been stuck at the 300 horse mark forever and everyone else has moved on. It sucks that with a few bolt ons golf Rs and GTIs drastically destroy STIs. It sucks that toyota released a GR corola that is basically a corola STI and is way more enthusiast friendly with less 1 cylinder and -0.9 L of displacement and it makes pretty much the same power more reliably. It sucks that I have to do some basic oil pick up mods and cooling mods if I want to track an STI to reduce the chances of blowing the motor. It sucks driving such a cooling looking and sound car that just doesn't have the bite to back up the bark. They look so cool and so fast but they are late 2000s definition of fast. There are just way better options out there that are faster, more practical and more reliable even when beat on. The only reason to buy a WRX is nostalgia and being a fan of the brand, that is becoming harder to do with how they treat fans of the brand. From an enthusiast perspective I just don't see a good reason to even look at WRXs anymore, and I hate it because I want a good reason to love it but can't find one. The reasons to hate it are growing longer and longer.
So sad to see. Hopefully if everything goes full electric they will at least release a good eSTI or whatever.
To be fair, in 2015 I bought the WRX over the STi because by 2015 I HATED the EJ25 engine. The road to a safe & reliable 400HP in the EJ25 platform was way too complicated compared to the FA engines.
No idea what's Subaru's deal with this Performance CVT, The WRX and BRZ I can see them disappearing in the next 5 years.
Those never come to the USDM. Subaru still sells the 07 sti trans which would be purfect in this vb. Especially since they left provisions for the sti mechanical shifter linkage.
The Solltera is already a STe, burning 31KW/100km ;-)
The only possible logical reason to do this I can think of is potentially the further addition of a hybrid system. But that might actually be cool if they did it with a manual instead
I think its more like complacency, due to lack of competition in the segment, as well as Subaru wanting to make the gas powered vehicles less appealing, and generate more excitement for what ever STe EVs bring to the table.
Yeah, I'm kinda tired of my Subaru as well. I can't seem to go more than a month without something going on with my GD. Another misfire, the passenger door broke again, the alarm clicker won't work. It's a fun car, but sheesh, I'm tired of constantly having to fix it.
As someone who has physical limitations that makes driving a manual difficult, I’m more than okay with their being options for different transmissions. (I drive an auto GR86 and enjoy it for what it is.) That being said, if there is an auto…why a CVT?? That’s so disappointing even from someone like me who prefers autos for my personal limitations
Thanks for speaking the truth. Subaru's been dead to me since they pulled out of the WRC in 2009.
It's so sad to me they didn't even run a full season with the 2008 car. I still drive my 2008 daily.
The ARA cars they run are still pretty cool
They didn't pull out, FIA basically kicked them out with the engine requirements.
@Smithcraft1 They could have run the 2008 car for 2009 and 2010, but they pulled out after the 2008 season because of the economic crash of 2008.
@@ShawDAMAN ARA right now is just a one man show to make dumb people think Subaru is still cool.
Enthusiast is a relative word. Be glad the WRX is still around and not gone extinct like the Evo and other performance vehicles.
Evo X got hate when it came out, and now people miss evos and wish Mitsubishi would make a new one. The same thing will happen with the WRX.
If I wanted to go fast with an AWD, I would buy a Mitsubishi honestly. Subarus have limits
I disagree, we should call out sub par products and not have to praise anything they come out with
@@robinator503 Everything has limits. I keep my car stock.
@@robinator503Evos had weak transmissions.
hey, not rellevant, but, I have a question: can you use the high torque fluid in the tr690 in the 2.5l NA outbacks? I was thinking it would help it have more power flow. I do not know, however, so asking you would there be any problems? less lifespan? or would it work great? love to know! ( I have the 2011 outback ,if that helps)
Really wish they had a cvt designed for 450wtq so they could tow reliably a reasonable weight on other than level surfaces. Im currently towing a 1500lb to 1700lb boat with the trailer and stuff. With my sti. Because i dont want to use my forester sport even though i added a large cooler.
Performance Subarus blow up factory with no mods at all.
I think in part since the enthusiast crowd is smaller and less profitable they will probably not build a car to cater to all their demands.
However I personally think the horsepower and transmission specs are due to EPA restrictions.
Well, if you are Subaru, and your enthusiast base blew up their cars and then sued en masse, it would not make you as a manufacturer very interested in continuing to build that product. The abuse and subsequent failures of these cars killed the WRX STI. Enthusiasts have themselves to blame...
I used to think like you.
I bought my STI used with a brand new engine because the first one blew up at 96k miles. At the time I also thought it was “abuse” and improper mods that killed these cars. I babied my car, I stalled air/oil separator, bigger radiator, checked oil every fuel stop, used the best oil. I rarely ever did full WOT pulls.. maybe 4 times in the 4 years I owned it. I even got a professional tune meant specifically to remove any lean situations that would lead to knock.
Yet one day, it spun a bearing because the oil pickup tube failed due to shitty manufacturing.
I was in a Subaru group and literally everyone except maybe one or two guys were AT LEAST on their second engine. Always either cylinder 4 ringland failure or failed oil pickup tube. When I had the accessport on the stock tune, it knocked like crazy for no reason, which is why I ended up paying for a custom tune. Not for power but for reliability.
Honda, Acura, ford, Chevrolet, Toyota, VW, Mercedes, BMW all make sports cars that get modified and abused, yet those cars don’t have the reputation of blowing up their engines if you drive them like sports cars. The evo was the main competitor to the wrx and it never had engine problems despite being driven as hard as anything else. You can beat up an LS engine in a corvette or camaro and no one complains about them blowing up unless they’re being pushed to the extreme.
Subaru has known for 20 years that their pistons and pickup tubes had issues. And they refused to address it and instead always blamed the customers. They could have improved piston design or the pickup tube welding issue but they decided to ignore it. There are entire brands of aftermarket parts that exists to address these common failures.
This is and always has been a Subaru problem and they continue to refuse any responsibility.
@ROVA00 "I rarely ever did full WOT pulls" What's the point of owning a car where you can't use full throttle? That sounds very sad. 😟
@@ROVA00 that's the problem with Subaru, they use the standards for an 80 hp econobox to build a 300 hp rally inspired sports sedan.
@ it WAS sad and that’s why I sold it. I couldn’t enjoy it after I rebuilt the block. That was 5 years ago and I just bought a civic type R. Somehow I don’t feel afraid my engine is going to blow up by driving it like it’s mean to.
My guess is that they want to use the 6-speed but considering that the only model in their lineup that uses a manual transmission at this point is the WRX and not much demand for it over the past months they cant produce the 6-speed tranny at large numbers at a reasonable cost so they went with the CVT.
It drives me crazy how Subaru discontinued the STi. I loved my 2015. They need to bring it back with 400hp and a manual and I'd literally throw money at them to have one. Reality is it's never gonna happen so motorcycles are how I enjoy myself now. Sports cars are dying hard.
As an aging Outback owner, I don't think you are far off the mark. Given 40 KM/Hr speed limits in our town, who needs the higher horsepower? All I want are the features that make Subaru a great winter car in the snowy part of Canada I live in.
I dont think S210 is coming to NA market. In Japan they cut out MT car for awhile. and Subaru is now toyota owned, not surprise
Can anyone recommend a engine temp & oil level HUD for a 1st gen Crosstrek ?
I don't understand how Subaru doesn't have temp and level gauge displays in their vehicles. Especially considering their being prone to blown gaskets ( My 2014 Crosstrek blew a Head Gasket at 100K miles ) and oil consumption issues. The warning lights they currently have are so small and often don't even come on until after it's too late ( engine overheating ). It makes no sense at all...
Please advise!
In 2022, I would have bought an STI but Subaru decided to end the STI in 2021 with zero warning. Your theory of what Subaru is doing with the S210 by going backward in performance is likely. I was thinking Subaru is one of those troubled car companies like I believe MItsubishi is/was. I didn't know about Subaru losing on the warranty claims which you told us about which also makes sense of the issue. I am next considering an Outback, however, depending on how good or bad the forthcoming '25 4Runner turns out to be, but could go the new Land Cruiser route instead.
I tend to agree with you. Year on year their sales (across all models) are down and I wonder if the WRX makes them much money. I think you could apply similar logic to the Impreza, I wonder if they will ditch that, they seem to be all in with SUV's and their variants. Even the over bloated EV Solterra is a humungous Outbacky/Crosstrek looking thing.
The thing is that they have done the market research and these decisions are a result of that. Young people aren't buying sports sedans at the same rate that they used to. In fact, even the adjacent sports car market is in decline on the mid to low tier price ranges. Older people buy Subarus now so the brand has to cater to new buyers. Not people who want an STI so they can buy one fully depreciated 8 years post release.
Plus, an STI doesn't make sense in this competitive environment. If the WRX TS is almost 50k and STI's were generally WRX + 10k that would make it a 60k vehicle. There's no way they could peddle a souped up shitbox for 60k when there are a bunch of better cars with nicer interiors in that price range. It would be the same competitive environment that the WRX finds itself in right now.
Will my 2016 STI go up in value???
I agree, hopefully it works.
So call me crazy but I think they’ll throw a 6-Speed manual upon production but using the TAS as rage bait to see where they stand data wise with potential buyers. Stellantis did the same with the hemi but announced they’re going to keep it in Durango models (and this I can’t say with certainty but potentially new model chargers will get it (with a fabricated engine bay not made for an electric engine))
So for sports cars in the future if this happens to the US wrx as well, I guess I'd have to go BRZ, or go with an older Subaru. The wife wants a land yacht though so I might be getting a *gasp* domestic automobile and then switching to a smaller Subaru for my own personal car, instead of my Legacy Limited 36r.
I tell people all the time. If you drive it like a race car, you have to maintain it like a race car. I hate if they discontinue it. I love rally racing, and nothing out performs a Subaru in rally.
Seems like they want to sell $30,000 2.0L Crosstreks and $40,000 Wilderness Foresters and Outback’s which come with CVTs. Normal cars sell like hotcakes at insanely high prices it doesn’t make sense to invest all the R&D and warranty bills on 20,000 cars sold each year. This is probably one of the last gas WRX cars if I had to guess and they’ll probably just sell an STe E.V. in the future to be a sportier rally car Tesla competitor
something like 98% of new cars sold in Japan are automatics, so that might explain lack of manual option. also I'm guessing they're transitioning to EV/Hybrid and not R&D-ing any new ICE cars at this point. they're riding off into the ICE sunset, letting it peter out.
I don't know, that seems a super round about and costly way to wind them down. But it is quite apparent that their overall focus on performance has waned especially pulling out of WRC years ago. I mean, I wondered why they would keep WRX on things as a label at that point and go back to GT and such, but its brand recognition I guess.