Zink's flip last year was celebrated as something absolutely amazing and it was basically only banger in his run and this year, Szymon's flip is described as "low consequences with good landing" and TVS massive frontflip (where I guess we can agree that consequences are huge as we have seen in 2021 )was not enough for top 3. Event is really spectacular but you judges are making it ridiculous. It is shame.
I agree exactly with the claw. That is exactly what I saw when I deep dived into it. When competition gets so close and tough cause everyone is sending it, ya really gotta start nit picking the lines and execution. I saw Darren up on the mountain during the builds and practice so I figured that's what he was doing, getting a close "riders perspective" view of each line. Judges are doing a great job and keep it up. This controversy proved how important the judges are even more. Most people spitting hate, have never set foot on the site and most likely would not be able to ride to the site, let alone do the features. Sadly, most of the hate is coming from a place of passion and not reality. I hope this sport does not go away from reality and continues to reward the riders that are evolving themselves and the sport.
I had Tom v in 3rd and agree that was a mistake but I’m only one out of five. This years riding was so on point compared to previous years it was nuts. It’s only gonna get tighter and tighter until we can find a new venue
New judges are needed before new venue. Judging when some of the competitors are your friends is called conflict of interest, unethical. That is true in any other field of life, not less true in mtb. Sad that you don't see that simple fact and just step down.
@@jonster6161 I hate to tell you but this is how all extreme sports are judged. No one knows the difficulties of doing the things better than the people that have done the things. There is no one in the world that know it best than the riders that created it. Someone that knows that an OPPO whip off of a gnarly Double drop into a canyon is harder and higher consequence than a 300 foot groomed strait run into a lippy canyon gap backflip. Rampage is probably one of the most technical and toughest extreme sports to judge. You don't get these variables in fmx, bmx, skate or snow. Praise judges
And even in this video you downplay Brens run and introduce bias to try and validate your poor decision making. Listen to yourself explain the run again compared to Whitlocks and you use the word "little" no less than 4 times when describing Brens run. Whitlocks 34ft backflip is described as being "lofty" but not a single adjective used to describe a 46" high risk canyon gap flip. "Don't focus on scores" is an absurd thing to say as well when It's precisely this metric that determines the position. Dissapointed when I watched it and equally so now. 0 accountability
I can’t hear it anymore!! I just have seen a video of a guy (I think it was sebi flow or something) and he did send Brens run. The features were already kind of torn down so it was even sketchier. And guess what? He rode that line with almost no problem. I am not discrediting Brens run with that, but that just shows that his line is rideable & is not as crazy as all of you think. I will be 100% sure, that there won’t be any amateur who is going to replicate for example Brandon’s run.
@@felixghaffar9604I agree. There should not even be discussion about this. Sadly, all this drama has more to do with the fan clubs emotional connection with bf and his dig crew. Using things like a nose bleed or using jordies name to promote a better score than deserving. Maybe in the future, rampage needs to implement a code of conduct so that this dark cloud does not happen again and the riders stay professional.
@@tjpighin Yeah, that’s exactly the problem! I really like BF but his fanboys ruin the fun rampage brings for me. Don’t get me wrong, I like his more original lines, but his fanbase is so unfair to all the other riders. Gets me to a point where I really wish rampage will exclude Brendan for the future. But also all his podcast are kind of weak in my opinion. Constantly trash talking about how he should have won is just not right. But I think that’s a British problem in general. Gmbn made a video about the judging & how poor it was. These guys haven’t even been to the venue and are most definitely not able to ride any of this stuff. Yet they talk like they rode rampage since for ever.
@@felixghaffar9604 yes I agree. It is a very twisted view on reality. Sadly they are playing politician more than concentrating on being professional. They have lost my respect and I do think rampage and maybe all mtb events should incorporate a code of conduct policy. Between this and the crankworks finals being canceled this year, it is showing that the entitled generation is ruining the sport throught their politics.
The most confusing thing is when you’re describing with so much importance the exposure in scoring between the first guys top spots without even commenting about it during Brendog run. Comparing the rock to a 11ft to 22ft step up/step down or his shoot to drop as a normal feature would make all the first pitch about exposure making absolutely no sense….
That is reality. The rock is just that. Comparitively small and not tricked. The roll ins were less tech than he had done in the past events as well. That's why rampage has naturally progresses to what the top 5 riders did. You can only ride a vertical and nasty chute to a point until it turns into a drop. If bf didn't buff his stuff, maybe it would be more deserving of a better score
@@rawproduction7615 An amateur rode BF line a couple days ago. Some of the features already got torn down, yet he did send everything with no problem at all. So basically you are saying that Brendan should have won, even though an amateur rode his line with no problems? That just makes no sense. Whereas I am 100% sure that nobody is going to recreate semenuks run.
@@felixghaffar9604 Dont use the word amateur. I havent seen the video or know who did it, but someone who rides that line is NOT AN AMATEUR! When you say amateur i think of someone who rides blue trails and not pro lines. That line takes serious skills. An amateur would not ride a line like that.
@@michaelholtan9849 I actually do know this dude. Ofc he is not amateur. But definitely not a rampage level rider. He also mentioned in his post that BF will probably be soooo pissed about this.
@@Grisseman82 I could send you the insta link. He didn’t do the backflip. That’s not the point. All I am saying is that this shows, that BF line might not be the craziest thing at rampage this year. I don’t want to discredit Brendan. Just want to give a little comparison to the technicality (which is still mental, but not totally unrideable) of his line.
There should be no need for a 16 min explanation video. If you want Rampage to keep its reputation, you should judge runs in a way that resonates with the majority of viewers right away. Nobody cares if the judging makes sense to you when it doesn't to millions of viewers. It's like, when people don't get your movie, the solution is not an explainer video. Create a movie that people get right away.
majority of complaining viewers never were on that mountain, think that single crown forks and tricks are not freeride and that Rampage runs should be downhill run without timer, which was never ever the case.
The judges walk all the runs so why cant each rider be given a predetermined course score, shown on screen during the runs. Then the rest of the criteria adjust from there showing the score in each criteria on screen; many other judged sports managed this. I think the biggest cause of frustration is lack of communication on how the positions are determined. Also if scoring doesnt matter get rid of it.
2 suggestions for judging next year. 1. Favor amplitude higher than all other criteria. They are all dealing with the same vertical, so if one guy chooses to go big, that’s by definition fewer small features possible in his run. 2. Don’t score for opposites on tricks. That’s a slope style thing and super subjective with ambidextrous savants like Brandon and Emil. Tricks, absolutely, bonus for opposite, no.
I completely understand what you're trying to say and that judging the event is a balance of line choice, technically, creativity, risk (exposure) and tricks; however, I think the issue most people have, and that you don't really address with the video, is that the weighting of these different criteria feels wrong. It feels like you give more weight to big tricks on a less creative or technical line which generates big air time rather than a technical, new and creative line which doesn't provide a big trick. If that's the case, then the event is becoming slope style not freeride. Claiming everyone is hitting the big mountain element is basically saying you don't value the big mountain criteria, and that people who incorporate even bigger mountain features or take the time to carve out new and creative lines are not going to get rewarded for it, whereas someone can flip a big gap which has existed for years and get rewarded much more. Red bull needs to decide what type of event they want, communicate that clearly to ridere and fans alike and then share the scoring cards so that you don't have this controversy next year.
I do agree with you on the fact that the production needs to do a more in depth job of showing the viewer what we judges see. If I had a filmer and would per say follow me around for a week while im measuring each feature noting every in run and out run for exposure and noting creativity. Then you all would not be asking these questions and feel so angry at the judging. By the way I've requested they do a piece on this the past two years. next year will be the third year in a row. Fingers crossed they jump on board.
@@darrenberrecloth3918Darren thank you for this video. Honestly I don’t envy you guys. To the point made above what about rating each line before the rider hits it. Several people have said that the judging criteria for a sport like diving might be applicable. For example this line has a difficulty of 9.5 so if the rider hits it clean they can score big. This kind of transparency helps the viewer understand the complexity and would allow riders to adjust line choice to amplify scores. I am sure you have discussed this already but I think the big challenge to the event is the lack of transparency and the minutiae of the details that the regular viewer will not be able to appreciate.
Adding to your point like you said, bf did the same banger as 5 years ago. Not to discredit his run, but that is not evolution. I sure as heck could not do a flip over a massive canyon, but the thing is, all the other riders have progressed so much in 5 years. I would not want to watch an event that does not change from year to year. I can just watch replays for that.
Just call Rampage what it is - big mountain slopestyle. Still incredibly impressive and high stakes, but trying to mix it in with people riding like Fairclough isn’t working anymore. Riders like Kade Edwards, Gee Atherton, Brage and Fairclough need to come up with a new event separate from the Utah rampage.
Ramapge is about tricks. They did backflips 20 years ago. Darren explains the judging. To call it slope is just ignorant. Slope is not jumping of a cliff! And if you don't like tricks you are in the wrong place. If you join a cagefight as a taekwondo fighter you cannot complain about opponents hitting you in the face.
@@jailbreak1973 grooming landings so you can land slopestyle tricks on a big mountain sounds a lot like big mountain slopestyle to me and many other people. I’m not sure why people get so offended by the label slopestyle - embrace it hold the event in Utah and others who don’t want to compete in big mountain slopestyle will hold an event elsewhere. Darren and his mates can slap each others backs each year without people moaning at them and people like Fairclough, Atherton and Brage can set up their own event . Everyone’s happy.
@danfsims So if Brendan's event isn't going to have packed landings I assume it will just be a bunch of guys going otb on a 20 foot drops like it was 20 years ago? 10 years ago the main discussing was rampage become too dangerous. Now this year there was only 1 serious injury despite it being the biggest event ever and people want to totally change it because their favorite rider got an 11th place instead of 9th.
I’m not suggesting people change Rampage, like I said the guys like Zink et al can do what they like and good luck to them. There probably needs to be a different event to cater for the different styles of riders. It’s clear that the audience want a different kind of event and this video shows that the judges can’t reconcile the styles either. If Redbull or whoever were smart they’d cater to what their audience want.
Listen to the community. Keep it bold and simple. Rank big hits higher than technical tricks and you are good. - Rampage only can survive if the people keep watching. So, why do people love rampage? Because they love to see how riders keep pushing the limits of what is possible on a bike. Blowing everyone's mind is key. Like Godziek and Steenbergen did. Technicality like Semenuk showed, is more for the nerds. Like I am one too, being in the sport for 24 years now. But give the crowd what they came for.
fyi "community" went wild on the 2nd Semenuk run. Not "nerds" who've never been on the venue - people who watched it IRL. Opo whip was mind blowing. Smh only people complaining are the people who neither can do trickes nor do they saw earlier freeride movies and competitions.
oh come on. I think what we have heard from the public is that technical free ride is what people want to see. Big air is rad but we have darkfest for that also.
Brendog did not have the biggest line, he had the most unique. I agree he shouldn’t have won. But I think his line was very technical. And he should’ve scored higher, maybe top 5.
It was unique which is why he beat talus and Whitlock. Tried to explain that but perhaps should of gone into detail how the other riders above them just went bigger, faster and threw down on tricks more than the rest all the way up the line
You didn't comment on the technicality of his two chutes. Did you think they were not that technical? You also didn't comment much on his 50 foot canyon backflip. Did you think that had an easy run in and an easy landing?
@@AlexanderBeecroftHis canyon was sick but other than the consequences of falling in the gully it really wouldn't be that impressive of a jump on its own.
The explanation is much appreciated. Regarding Brendog, it seems there is just a disconnect between what the viewers and judges want to see. Maybe the viewers can just relate more to what Brendog does than what the big trick riders are doing. Raw tech lines just look gnarly (especially after watching the whole build) and that is what alot of viewers think Rampage is suppose to be. They can relate because they go OTB on the 6' rock roll at the local trail. But how many viewers can even do a back flip much less one off a 60 footer. Kind of like when X-games skiers started spinning and flipping so many times you couldn't even count. The "spin to win" just got boring because it stopped being relatable.
I think the addition of hosepipes has made it seen more slopestyley. Its allowed riders to make more manicured lines which in turn makes it seem less freeridey
I suggested this last year when you posted a similar video and im gonna suggest this again, judging needs more transparency. Needs to be broken down why you give a particular score to a rider. Cause at the moment it feels super arbitary. You should have a system where maximum ponits are 100, and its all broken down, for example Exposure 30, tricks 20, amplitude: 30 so on so forth. Cause last 2 years were ridiculous and really turned me (and probably many more?) away from rampage. When you have to post a video after every event why your judging looked terrible, you should look into changing something behind the scenes instead of telling us not to worry about the scores.
Darren, you were on of my idols in the past, I'm ex downhill pro racer who was always fascinated about Rampage, because it was always about combining multiple disciplines into one and seeing variety of riders like pro downhill racers, freeriders and slopestylers pushing their limits of comfort zone in which they were - for example seeing a pro downhill racer do a backflip even during whole season he was fighting the clock and doesn't care about backflips, or slopestylers pushing their limits on DH bikes on the steepest course they've ever ridden. Now I saw only slopestyle riders and one downhill racer with unique line which stands out from others and it was the line that everyone wanted to see on event like this, so that's why everyone is complaining and you needed to make this video. I understand your points about safety and how hard is to make these jumps work with huge tricks combined with smooth run, but do you think is this what people really wanted to see? Do you think that there will be so much complaining about underscoring the Brendog or TV if everything was allright (as you trying to tell us)? My point is, that in the past, nobody complained about underscoring someone like we see past years because there was a bigger variety of types of riders, lines and tricks. Everyone has their own unique ride, style or whatever and everything was allright, but if now there is so much complaining and we can see that riders slowly getting away and don't want to compete on rampage anymore, something is not right.
Been looking forward to this, thanks for making the video. One of the best riders we have ever seen won, ticks all the boxes on the judging criteria while doing it.
The criteria is noted in the vid, the real issue is we are not judging each rider on the same line like a slopestyle course. Every rider is taking a different line that is def easier or harder then the next athlete. Then you need to judge the tricks on the different lines and features which adds another layer of complexity to it all so without seeing each line in person theres always going to be confusion. Its almost a no win situation for us judges.
You have to defend your judging every year! Something is wrong with that! X games and other events similar don’t seem to have the same controversy every year! Piss poor excuses being made every year!
We have all these armchair quarterbacks with little to no experience getting upset about what the experienced (former riders) rankings are. That is the funny part about all of this. I think you did a great job explaining what the judges do and why you score the way you do. I saw the front flip and was stoked by it. But one big trick without many others and riding sketchy (compared to other riders) is not a way to win. Consistency is how contests are won. Casing landings is also a reason to not score someone as high, regardless of how big their lines and tricks are. Judging is extremely difficult to do, especially when you have so much talent in the line up. Becuase of that, you need to nit pick every detail. And I guess now tricks are a big part of freeride. If you can do a big line, great! If you can do a big line and trick it at the same time....even better!
I love this explanation and I appreciate it so much Darren. This event is so unique because everyone rides a different line and that adds a level of complexity for judging. Scoring tricks on features works great for slopestyle because each athlete rides the same jumps. In my opinion for rampage I think the judging should be done by the fans through a app or something. Another option I like is to implement a physical leaderboard without a score and have a final decision for placement on that board up to the judges after all the runs have been completed. Again this is just my opinion.
Appriciate the clarification Darren - Im on the side of raw over slopestyle. Back in the day when you were riding, fucking loved watching you dudes ride back in the early 2000's. Either way cheers for the explaination and also much respect for replying to all the comments 🤘
Your style and everything you’ve done for the sport is incredible. Tricks are absolutely a part of freeride, and I love watching them, but big mountain freeride has that one-of-a-kind, rugged rawness that sets it apart. It’s something I’d love to see preserved, especially since there’s really only one sanctioned event to showcase it. RAMPAGE VS JOYRIDE/CRANKWORX. I think the judging categories are solid, but maybe the weighting and scoring could be adjusted to emphasize the exposed, challenging lines that give big mountain freeride its unique character. It’s that balance between technical skill, risk, and style that makes this subset of the sport so beautiful. All love for you but this was a tough one to understand.
ya I'm with ya on this one as I also love doing raw big mountain faces and pure shredding but the honest truth is without tricks it gets boring and nobody would watch!
People didn’t seem bored at the premiere of the Anytime movie when everyone was shredding crazy steep lines with no tricks. Also, clearly the fans were stoked on Brendog’s line so it seems dismissive to say no one wants to watch steep technical lines.
@@darrenberrecloth3918 agreed tricks are an exciting part of the show just think maybe the weighting of the scorecard could bring a bit more balance in the appreciation of what these guys are putting out there and how they are interpreting the landscape. I am by no means a burn it all down guy and really appreciate you taking the time to explain, engage and address 🙇🏼♂️
thank you for making this explanation video but even with the side by side and explanation i still think godziek should have been first and brendog way higher in the ranking
This doesn't help much at all. If, as a fan, we aren't supposed to consider the score, then why show a score? If exposure and knarl are considered, why isn't there any kind of line difficulty score or rating, just "trust us"? This explanation frustrates me more than it helps me understand. Sounds like a figure skating judge trying to justify podium results.
Ya I understand your frustration here. We’ve been trying to ditch the showing of scores but the big bosses want them. I also want the line scores pre determined and on the screen, been pushing for that for years as I was always a guy that tried my best to build a bad ass big mountain line and felt that would of helped my case many times over. Plus it would start the controversy early on who’s line is more badass but then people could show and talk about why before the event instead of people like me having to do my best at explaining it all. Hope this helps and thanks for tuning in.
Darren, not on the topic of this vid but just have to say you are still one of my favorite OG freeriders! I remember being blown away by Where the Trail Ends as a kid and some of your northshore vids! They were so sick!
Another Rampage another explanation video. I backed you last year and I back you again. Maybe a couple points here and there but I didn’t see the miss justice the rest of the internet did. I honestly think so many people watched Brendog videos leading up to the event. His camp has 3 videos a day coming out so the fans over the last 10 days feel invested in his line. Its not a free ride event, its not a slope style event, its not a best trick event, its Rampage. The fans are always going to have an issue with judging but the fans are also going to come back year after year because it’s amazing what this event has evolved into. Thanks for the explanation I think it is going to be hard to change the mindset of the keyboard warriors that feel like they got robbed.
I mostly enjoyed this years Rampage. And I don't claim to be any sort of expert when it comes to judging an event like this, but I felt Brendog's score was an insult. It was not a winning run, maybe even top 5, but a 76 was a literal kick in the balls. The whole vibe of the event changed with that one score.
Big thanks for showing up and facing the issue straight in the eyes. 👍 I think everybody should take a deep breath and realize how lucky we are to watch such an incredible event, and that it's not THAT easy to judge such an event before sending hating messages. I agree with you on the exposure factor, which must be indeed significantly rewarded. And to be honest, I just wonder if many of us do prefer brendog's line simply because it's closer to how we do mountain bike ourselves : we don't do tricks. Personally, I prefered it, and I wonder if another event should maybe be created with that mindset : less jumps, more natural obstacles. whatever happens next, kudos to you, the organization, and the riders because whatever amount of controversy there might be, going down that mountain on a bike is just insanely dangerous and incredible to watch. 🙏
This was the first year I’ve attended Rampage in person and I have to fully agree with the judging - every feature and the consequences associated with them cannot be communicated through a screen. The first thing I saw when I showed up was Bienve casing his lower canyon gap, that really instilled a level of respect for the features that are built out there. I think a lot more commenters need to get out in the desert before going to bat for riders that were “robbed”. (except norbs, he’ll always be robbed 😂)
True that. I've visited last year's rampage site this year and was literally blown away by the size of all the features and exposure. Just like you said, all the judging was made clear for me. You definitely have to see it in person to know why riders are scored the way they are. You just cannot see it on tv screen.
I got this feeling that every single person is a judge now. Guys please... Calm down . Most of the comments are just brendog should win, brendog should have ended in top 3 and so on. Maybe he should get better score, i don't know, iam not a judge. I just appreciate that. Darren explained to us, how the judges makes their decision and to me it does make sense. I enjoyed the rampage. My favourite rider didn't won, but is it end of the world? Nah, i don't think so. Grab a bike and go for a ride instead of typing down that upset comments. Don't know how bout you folks, but for me is the best feeling i can get
Makes sense now. The judging is intentionally reductive, purely a measure of linear of feet and number of tricks. One 200' drop and over the finish line would be pretty boring to watch. Virgin may be the stupidest place on earth to hold a slopestyle comp. When most all the spectators say you got it wrong, maybe it's time to consider that maybe you got it wrong. Or at least reexamine the judging criteria.
Much Appreciated for breaking this down Claw. Not an easy job which many don’t see. Worst job of the week. Do you feel judges should be allowed to consult each during the judging ? Maybe like other sports it’s not allowed so there is less influence? In the future : should uniqueness of line and creativity hold a little more weight ? That is big mountain Freeride ? Also why not ask for more time and only announce scores after 5-10 riders. Give you chance to really get it dialled. Tv can have a spot where scores roll in .. Think more of these conversations happen. More public can understand Reckon get you on the broadcast at the open of show or after the runs,
@@MovingTheNeedlePodcast hey bud, A lot of the points you bring up we’ve been pushing for. And the segregated judges thing well that’s a tough one because I feel things would go horribly wrong if that was the case. As for the more time for scores. We’ve pushed so hard for zero rankings until the first heat is done like the ol days but people want to see instant satisfaction and they want to see a score. Keep in mind the people on these comment boards are a fraction of the people that watch this event and the negatives are always the loudest….
You bring up a solid point, and it's definitely a hot topic in the mountain biking community! The shift in Rampage judging criteria has been a point of contention for many. The roots of freeride lie in line choice, creativity in using the terrain, and riding with style, rather than focusing solely on throwing down a bunch of tricks. But, as you mentioned, the recent judging has leaned more towards rewarding trick-heavy runs, which has changed the essence of the event. Bren's run probably represents that more pure vision of freeride-creative line choice and reading the terrain in a way that not many others do. But if the judges are favoring trick progression, riders like him can end up scoring lower even if they ride impressively in other respects. It's that balance between staying true to your own riding style and adapting to the criteria of the event. The way Swatch 9s highlights progression through tricks and big-air features seems like a possible direction for Rampage. If the event continues down this path, we might end up seeing a more trick-centric version of Rampage, just with the raw and rugged terrain of Utah.
I watched this and the runs again. Still like Szymons run the best, but I am no judge and no pro. Maybe it does not translate the best via flat screen or maybe I prefer front flips and double backflips over single crown trickery. In any way thanks a ton for the time and explanation.
Re-watched Drop In TV recently…how we can so quickly forget our roots…Freeride can progress as it has and as it should, but not to the point where a freeride competition no longer rewards the gnarliest lines. Semenuk had a fantastic slope style run and won rampage…It’s sad to see the identity and credibility of the competition being lost.
I think there is no doubt that the vlog footage Brendog puts out goes a long way towards his fans feeling he got robbed. If viewers had the time (and it would require almost a week off work) to watch all the build footage from all the crews, they would see that every crew puts loads into this event. No one is phoning this in, everyone is bleeding, stressing, getting up before dawn, etc. last year I had more time and I watched loads of content and BF’s crew is good at making relatable content, and it’s easier for me to understand the battleship feature than an opo tail whip. I really appreciate bearclaw making videos like this or getting on moving the needle podcast last year and defending the judges’ decisions, because in the moment, I’m always confused by the rankings. I think redbull could do a better job of explaining each line in the broadcast, tricks aside. If exposure, technicality of in run and outrun, and size stats for each feature were better explained before each rider dropped, I would better understand the judging in the moment, and be way more impressed I think as well. SG’s run looks so massive at first pass it’s so hard to see how Brendan won, but then bearclaw breaks down the exposure and technicality and I get it. It just takes a few weeks for the bearclaw explanation to come out. If that analysis could be in broadcast, that would be so much appreciated
@@Jpwillia1 I’ve tried very hard to get a piece to showcase this before the event. Break it all down so people coming into the event know what’s what and why ! Hey @redbull are we listening yet?
I think it's great that you make the effort to explain judging and I have the greatest respect for every rider and judge out there and I love Rampage and the vibe among the riders as they continue to push themselves to do crazier tricks and the sick lines. I think the style of judging sucks because I think it brings bad vibes into such a great event. I would like to see the way of judging to change in the future, even if I can't say exactly what needs to change. but I don't think any of the riders deserve to be made bad. For me they are all winners and how you said the level is getting higher and higher. This year i personally would like to see Szymon, Tom v. St. and Semenuk on place 1 all 3 riders did so amazing runs in so different ways and in my opinion it is not possible to compare them. And that is the point where it gets frustrating for the viewers and i hope there will be some changes in the way of judging in the next years.
I get that scores from one year to another are hard to compare, but it sounds like the judging criteria is more structured than i thought and therefore it should be pretty consistent from year to year. What was the reason for Brendog's run being scored lower than the last time he rode it, considering he did everything and more than he did previously.
Thanks for putting this together for some clarity, some very valid points. Insanely difficult job being a judge. Majority of these negative people forget how talented of a rider you are and that you helped to shape this event. Most of them haven’t hit anything beyond a 10 foot tabletop 😂
Semenuk could have rode his line on a hard tail. Brendog’s line required a DH bike. That is a line with technicality and exposure. I blame Bearclaw for bringing tricks into Rampage with that Super Seater he did that one year. Need big mountain guys to judge Rampage like Vanderham, Schley, Simmons, etc.
Well I’d def be afraid to watch Semenuk try to ride his line on a hard tail but if anyone could drop in on a line with a hard tail it would be him. And ya sorry about that whole doing tricks thing!
Props to you for putting out a video on such a tough topic. I'm sure you've been blasted by the public for the last 2 weeks. I really think YOU as a judge should come out and defend your score at the event not Gully. Having a PR guy, who had no say in the score doesn't help. Even if people disagree with your final product, I don't agree with everything, I have to believe you would have given a better answer than, "he made it look easy." Love Gully, but I really think you or one of the other judges should stand up after giving the score and then give your assessment. Thanks for your thoughts
People need to understand the difference between how many folks are capable of these bike tricks and how many people are capable of these flip tricks. The amount of people on the planet that can backflip and frontflip is much higher than just tailwhip a bike. Opposite tailwhips on enduro bikes are one of the most uncommon bike tricks with enduro bikes today. The slack head angle makes it much more difficult to tailwhip than a hardtail or bmx. There is a 13 year old that can triple backflip bikes today. This isn’t skiing. This is biking.
I feel like rampage as a competition is to open and free to the competitors to be won by a single rider. If the judging criteria were clearer and we got a percentage breakdown for what caried a highest weight, that would help. But, i feel like to truly embarrass the "freeride spirit" there should be sperate awards: gnarliest run, biggest tricks, most thecnical, innovative design, ... . That way we actually reward every aspect of "freeride". It's hard to accepted that one guys run was so much better than another's when their lines are so difrent in styles. It feels unfair to judge them on the same criteria. Now, i know this would completely through a wrench in the spokes of the event. Changing the scoring, awards and general flow of the whole event. I by no means expected the event to change in any major way. Just thought id through my two cents in and see what others think. I apprecia the video, and i look forwards to all the same drama again next year😉
I think whith the judging the way it is now, it comes the the viewers (and possibly some riders) not fully knowing what is priorizing the scores. Like whe know thicks, amplitude, exposure, cleanliness, flow, and others are factored in. But the exact percentage and weight that those attributes carry isn't fully clear. And we don't get a breakdown of how a run scored on individual criteria. Without that information, we kind of have to guess.
I think what you are talking about is more the lines of Banff film festival kinda stuff. Everyone gets an award for their own individuality. I don't think this is something that helps drive progression. If I was a pro rider and I was pushing the sport to new insane levels, I would not be willing to put my health on the line so that everyone would get rewarded. Competition pushes top athletes to new levels and it pushes them to perform better than they thought possible. That is what gives everyone drive to achieve such hights. While watching old videos due to this controversy, I saw many riders saying things like, my run went well but I was disappointed with my score in the end. This is a reality of competition. There is one winner and the rest typically are disappointed. That disappointment is what gives the champions drive to do better in the future. I loved watching lacondagy talk about how he came back with the fire in his eyes and drive to win, and he did just that. This is what competition is all about. At a pro level, these riders are paid to be respectful and to be roll models for future athletes. There is a self awareness with this that you take an L with honor and use that to fuel your passion for the future. With that honor, there should be no cancel culture or shaming a fellow rider for doing better than you. I don't see a place for this and maybe there should be a code of conduct with all of this. I can't imagine the hate brandon feels and it's a shame that such a great event has been overshadowed by one rider and his fans. At minimum, I would expect that rider to make an apology video, but that does not seem to be the case. He continues to go on making this event about him. He has lost a few fans including myself and others I know. This is a bad look for the sport and a dark future if this is the new normal acceptance for behavior
@tjpighin That's fair, I get what you're saying. I wasn't proposing everything gets an award, just that we find a way to reward the different competition styles. I think the avent is too open to open to the competitors' interpretation of a sick run. They're given open reins to build their own runs, then graded strict (ish) criteria. It just feels odd. We've got a bunch of other events that promote very specific riding attributes (fastest down and craziest tricks). It would be cool if they could find a way to promote progression in creativity. It would be cool if rampage could be an outlier competition, different from all the other formulaic competitions. I do also want to make it clear, I understand what things are the way they are and that they won't really, and can't really change much. It needs to be a mainstream sport so they can keep sponsors, and so non mountain bikers find it cool to watch. Pushing the competition into big tricks also makes sense. It's an easy scoring metric, and it makes for easily sharable viral clips. So I get it (at least a small portion of it), they just have a unique opportunity with the setup of the event to promote a new style of riding, a possible evolution in a different direction with a more creative competition aspect. Now, i don't know how that would look or even if it's possible to implement (I doubt it), but it's just something I've been thinking about.
@@zach.225 I see what you are saying, and I do agree with you in some aspects. I do believe they kinda structured rampage around free skiing competition where all riders have a start and a finish, and then they have the freedom to express how they can make the most hyped run from top to bottom. That contains many things like speed, style, excitement, lines, and execution. Obviously, a natural evolution of this is to add in tricks. If two guys have the same gap, then difficulty of tricks will be the main factor that determines one being better than the other. I think, in the past, riders with fewer tricks have been able to win, but their run is typically like waaayyyyy more gnarly than the guys doing crazy tricks. I get what you are saying about the more raw aspect and I think mostbof us agree that is great to see. The fact is that many years ago and not long after it's conception, riders outgrew the limitations of natural terrain in this venue. Drops and gaps were getting so large that the soil could not naturally withstand the impacts and was creating many injuries during the event. The terrain became the limiting factor to progression and also became a safety Hazzard. Typically a good chunk of the finals field was out due to injury. To progress the sport and the wow factor, I think is what drove the event to start building structures to make it safer but also bigger and more of a spectacle. Fans and riders didn't particularly enjoy the esthetics of the wood structures which I believe is when the sand bags came into play. So yes as much as raw is still a great concept. It does get boring and repetitive after a while. It might be great to see a new venue and have a no dig no practice side event one year just to see what the riders can figure out and to show the fans what it was like back in the day haha idk
It's so simple. If anyone cared about opposite tail whips they'd watch slopestyle Nothing wrong with slopestyle, but it does get a bit dull after a few runs precisely because you start comparing the same tricks whether they are singles, doubles or triples etc. I am sure they are mind-bendingly difficult things to do but, that is from a rider's perspective. From a spectator's perspective, it gets a bit dull and repetitive. So if that is your criteria then fair enough. The problem is it does not reflect what spectators want from freeride. As shown in the gap between the people's champion scores and judges' scores. Ultimately, this should be a spectacle and excite spectators. Without an audience, there is no show, right? When what the judges expect becomes too far removed from what the spectators want/expect, that's a problem for any sport. It's why things like Dark Fest work: Its banger big jumps and no judges to misjudge the mood. And if your criteria is so out of line with the audience, change your criteria. Rampage as everyone has been saying should be about big mountains, rowdy, risky riding. Riding that mere mortals cannot do, not tricks mere mortals cannot do. There is a time and place for that and it's not here.
The old style of freeride came with so many crashes on much smaller features. This years event was absolutely insane for airtime and exposure. That is what this terrain can deliver- it’s not dirt surfing down a steep chute for 5 minutes straight Brage or Sorge style - that would be a different event. What I think irks some is that Semenuk can add such a high level of difficulty to mid size features that he beats out the wild and loose run of Godzie. You guys have to do something though since this years outcome really sucked the air out of the event and killed all the stoke. This is not good for the event either since the trust seems lost.
its weird when a freestyle sport is judged by the competitors best friends, it just doesn't feel right. there is no way that the friendship won't play a big role and it sure shows.
Darren, if Szymon would have laced the flatspin on the canyon before his 3 drop do you think he deserved this W? I thought you guys got the top 5 right and the order could have gone either way. Everyone saying its gone slopestyle dont realize that packed landings and decent run-ins/outs are the only way these guys can go this big and im all for it.
You implore us to ignore the scoring, and then tell us to trust that you score the lines. If thats the case why isnt this ever shown? Of course people want to see tricks...the thing that is ignored is that we can see tricks in groomed landings at Crankworx. Rampage isnt sypposed to be Crankworx and thus a lot of people would rather see a rowdier line that may potentially induce less tricks. The balance is wrong, and everything you have said pushes this balance yet further away from what a large chunk of the audience seem to want to see.
Again. But for me this time was way better. Others also had a huge canyon gap. Battleship stuff missing. And I like to add Darren was right about the Battleship. Lewis showed up with a shovel and a bunch of friends and jumped it. Szymon on top for a long time. He could have made a second run. It was clear that Semenuk would win if he completes his run. I think Adolf deserved a lot more. But I think it was good judging.
This is what ive been saying throwing a tailwhip was mad sketchy af, In a boxing match Semenuk throw more punches than Godziek even though Godziek thrown solid punches the score didn't made it. There are tons of average Rampage watchers here also count in Crankworx Slopestyle watchers I bet they are the same people who cant comprehend why Emil was over Godziek and Godziek was over Emil in the past competitions.
You should have prepared a better explanation of the rankings publicly before the race, not mount it now to fit your agenda. At the same time you should have rated the difficulty of each line beforehand and add points for tricks/speed during the race, possibly deduct points for a dropped foot, cased jump, people would see online the points for line difficulty before the race.
You know what I actually filmed exactly that the day before the event after I finished evaluating all the lines. I watched it and then realized that some of the athletes would be disappointed and in some cases perhaps say screw it my line doesn’t hold up so I’m not riding. You see every rider is so focused on their line and convinced they have a shot in the top mix as they have to be and if someone messed that up with some bummer news it could really suck so I opted to not post it.
Adding to this, there are many great videos and clips of riders talking about the progression and the vision of rampage from the start. During the dead air of the intermission, maybe use that time to inform the uneducated viewers and fans of the history and progression and why it has become what it is now. In many of the comments I have seen, it seems that people don't have a good understanding of the roots of all this. They seem to have made up their own recollection of the roots of rampage. They don't seem to remember all the injuries and the fact that most drops into soft dirt created crashes and inconsistencies that took away from the end result as a professional event. This also put a limit on the boundaries achievable by the riders.
“returning to a venue means it’s more dialed and more packed” which essentially means that it’s less freeride and more slope style. the hypocrisy surrounding this event is absurd now, just gonna start watching Joyride replays instead of wasting time thinking Rampage is going to be different.
One final note, when you compared Brendogs and Lukes run, you missed one of the flips he did when you described it. You totally didn't mention the risks, exposure of flipping the canyon. Too short dead, too long smashing into the run out. And you didn't talk about the exposure of landing on the rock. Again too short huge issues, too long death, and the speed having to be perfect.
Thanks for having the guts to speak up, Darren! Did you guys think about restricting riders to use dual-crown forks only? I see the ride wouldn't be "free" anymore, but it would bring the big mountain vibe for the audience and hopefully cut all the discussions about slopestyle tricks
4,487 views at the time of my comment, 67 likes. Clearly, you’re wrong and the public knows it. Y’all have destroyed Rampage by making it a slopestyle event. I was the loud mouth who stated this last year, was gawked at by other viewers. I also said I would no longer watch, which I stood firm on. Now, I’m glad. This is on you, the other judges and the event organizers. We want big hits, not showboat tricks. I wanna see someone huck that 70ft drop, clear the canyon or ride the sketchiest line at the event. Rampage is dead, long live Rampage.
If we trust your rigour and impartiality in your process, we can only conclude that your group of judges' weightings differ from the wider community's weightings in regards to these categories for this particular event. You can have your own truth and be content in that, Darren, but it is your subjective opinion. Where it grates is that tens of thousands around the world also feel like we have a stake in what we want rewarded and what we want to watch, and that seems to be weighted very differently to yourselves. You and the judges have such a stranglehold on the direction of a whole sport in your subjective weightings. Where else does that happen? Honestly, I feel the right thing to do would be to rotate more of the judges each year as this event sets the tone for a whole sport, and more of the luminaries of freeride (especially more from other regions) deserve to influence these internal judging debates and help realign with the community.
I think all the riders rode amazingly. Brendog's score being in the mid 70's was kind of disrespectful though. If it is all about placing, then decrease the range of scores like you said you could do.
You guys give credit for exposure? And what about last year Rampage? The same shit with brendog - who rode a line with more exposure and risk than brendog? You guys should be ashamed of this bullshit.
Brendon’s run was the sickest line, but the difficulty of the run was not comparable to the difficulty of the tricks and amplitude landed by godziek and semenuk on their runs. Any of the riders could have cleared Brendog’s run. No one could have sent what semenuk sent, with the tricks -> speed -> exposure. That’s why he is clearly the winner here. I don’t think anyone else could have sent the double back flip. With the big cases Godziek took, he was clearly the runner up. The second semenuk landed that run, personally, I had a strong feeling he was a dub before the judges even threw the score down.
we do, you need to have a look at all the other riders that had more exposure than the individual you are mentioning. FYI theres a video about to go viral you should have a peek at.
@NatureDeliversSound Tom Isted said that Brendog is the only one to clear it, but yes, the internet knows better ;) On the other hand, it would be great to see other riders going different lines to show if it is really that special.
@@slavvduroterefere3434 yeah I feel that, but those guys don’t want to put any of their fellow riders down. Theyre hyped on brendog’s run as we all are. But reality is the other riders are focused on their own runs.
@@slavvduroterefere3434 why risk getting hurt during practice on brendog’s run? Doesn’t make sense. Tom knows damn well if he really wanted to clear his run, he could
I think the main disconnect between fans expectations and the results comes down to the weighting of what we want the event to be. Tricks are cool on massive features and I’m not a “free rider” so I can’t speak to what the sport is but the viewers can not relate to what a oppo whip on a Lilly pad feels like. This is the reason why slopestyle lost a lot of appeal and is on the down. People can relate to taking creative lines and steep shoots so that’s what the viewers want to be rewarded not some combination of flips and spins that we don’t understand. That being said your job is not to pick a winner on what the fans want the sport to be you job is to pick a winner on the criteria that you have been given.
I still don’t buy this explanation…..all those bar spins are not freeride. We want more Robbie Burdon style leaps into the sides of cliffs, instead of oppo tailwhips (keep that in the bike park). Bring freeride back, and you won’t get the long time fans howling against you
You can see Darren's ears are still on fire from all the boos reverberating from The Canyons after they robbed brendog 😂. If you're going to equate risk into the score than what would have happened if brendog came up short on that 50 ft Canyon backflip. But ultimately he had two big features and I can see how that would have scored lower Overall I don't really care that much about the judging and most folks got to ride their dream run was incredible to see.
I've watched every Rampage since 2014 but I don't think I will next year cause the judging has been consistently shit, ever since Barrecloth started judging TBH. The bias is so obvious. Do the sport a favor and let the opinions of others be heard, because you're ruining this incredible event.
might be unpopular opinion but good job out there. this video could be 4x as long explaining everything thoroughly, but probably none of haters would watch/acknowledge anything anyway
I don't think it's unpopular. Most pro riders I have talked to agree and especially once there is proper productive conversation about it. Sadly with social media now, we see one side of the story, which turns bias very quickly.
a worthwhile post - unfortunately it seems that MTB judges have quickly become like football referees. Not an easy job when there's so much hate around. Congratulations to everyone who survived such a ridiculous and life threatening event. Despite this however I'm not sure there's any other sport that rewards competitors for doing something more dangerous. Encouraging such high risk might be seen as irresponsible when all is said and done. It's like instagram, the worse the crash is, the more likes you get! Pushing the sport is great, but it sure comes with a high level of danger. It's a shame that to get anywhere in mountain biking you have to sign up for a string of broken bones and hospitalisations. It's actually very sad. But such is life.
Needing a 15 minute video to justify the judging should tell you something is wrong. Unfortunately it seems like the glory days of Rampage are gone and it’s just another slopestyle contest to appeal to mass audiences. Freeriders no longer have a competitive event to call their own
I really appreciate you explaining how the Rampage judges score. It makes a lot of sense. It is a measured way and not an easy way to determine a run to score. Thanks Darren for explaining it in such detail. 🙌🙌🙌
Thanks for the great explanation, Legend. Seemingly people who hate the tricks in Rampage runs are the ones that never did them themselves, and cause that is so absurdly out of reach for them - they hate it. Same story year over year. Please do not make Rampage into some downhill run competition without a timer, lol. I was at the event this year for the first time and all guessed almost all scores correct to 3-4 pts - it was that clear of a judging for me and how great you guys did your job.
Bro the fans are ruining this event. The judging was pretty damn good. To me TVS deserved to score better than TMac, but I wasn't there to see TMac's line in person. Props for coming out and giving an explanation of your judging criteria.
Dude, what do you know about mtn biking? 😂😂 I judged two snowboard contests and said never again, because it’s a completely thankless job, and no matter what, everyone shits on you.
The fact that those two guys rode brendan’s line says enough about how gnarly/unique it was. If a rider is about the only one in his class to be able to make it down the run should score big points but as shown by these guys it’s not, unlike godziek or semenuk’s runs which I highly doubt will be copied anytime soon. I must admit I nearly threw my laptop out of the window when watching the event but this has put things in context and has made me understand the scoring a bit more.
I was getting worried, the apocalypse was coming! Darren didn't release a video, full of patronizing, contradictions, arrogance, and covert belittling, like we are 5 year olds, and didn't watch the same competition as everyone else...... WHEW! He came through clutch, and rallied! All is right with the world again.
See you have just overvalued amplitude and tricks. Tech and creativity should have equal value. That's what freeride is. The judges are trick riders not downhillers. It should be rider judged after the event.
where youre wrong is line difficulty. the trick has nothing to do with line difficulty. where you do the tricks matter more than the tricks themselves. Brendog was not robbed but syszmon deserved to win. semenuk deserved 4th
hey nathan, your right about this line you said "where you do the tricks matter more than the tricks themselves" . Thats the point I was trying to get across is that if brandon crashed on his opposite whip vs szymon crashing on his flip, Semenuk would most likely going to the hospital as where szymon's landing was quite buff and safe to crash on. Let me know if this helps?
The reality is brendog fan make a lot of noise and are biased because of all the digging videos and media his team put out, it deforms the vision of the viewers
He is clearly the guy with the most fans out there and to be honest so am I. I love those dudes and the content they put out, they are writing the book on how to pump up the hype machine and its awesome.
@@darrenberrecloth3918sadly they are crossing the lines between building hype and bringing everyone else down. I watched all their videos and even the finals video saying something about being robbed. With all this negative drama they created when they didn't like his score, this caused me to look into things deeper. Quite frankly, this unprofessional behavior has prompted me to unsubcribe to his channel and he has lost a fan. It's sad to see it come to this point and for this to overshadow such a great year of competition at rampage. It was great to see the drama with the nose bleed and all the messing around. Then they continued talking about jordies line and such, but it is disappointing to see that it's like everyone is expecting to see this transformed into points on finals day. I enjoy that the competition is judged on the run itself and not on the build and antics off the mountain. In the end, this is not a reality show, this is a serious competition at the forefront of the sport.
All this brendog BS is depressing. He wasn’t robbed. His run was no where near as big and technical and gnarly as TVS, TMac and SG. They need to shut it. Stop complaining and stop watching if that’s what you want to do.
Zink's flip last year was celebrated as something absolutely amazing and it was basically only banger in his run and this year, Szymon's flip is described as "low consequences with good landing" and TVS massive frontflip (where I guess we can agree that consequences are huge as we have seen in 2021 )was not enough for top 3. Event is really spectacular but you judges are making it ridiculous. It is shame.
zinks flip had way more intense run in and dangerous run out. check caleb holonko's interview somewhere
I agree exactly with the claw. That is exactly what I saw when I deep dived into it. When competition gets so close and tough cause everyone is sending it, ya really gotta start nit picking the lines and execution. I saw Darren up on the mountain during the builds and practice so I figured that's what he was doing, getting a close "riders perspective" view of each line.
Judges are doing a great job and keep it up. This controversy proved how important the judges are even more. Most people spitting hate, have never set foot on the site and most likely would not be able to ride to the site, let alone do the features. Sadly, most of the hate is coming from a place of passion and not reality. I hope this sport does not go away from reality and continues to reward the riders that are evolving themselves and the sport.
I had Tom v in 3rd and agree that was a mistake but I’m only one out of five.
This years riding was so on point compared to previous years it was nuts.
It’s only gonna get tighter and tighter until we can find a new venue
New judges are needed before new venue. Judging when some of the competitors are your friends is called conflict of interest, unethical. That is true in any other field of life, not less true in mtb. Sad that you don't see that simple fact and just step down.
@@jonster6161 I hate to tell you but this is how all extreme sports are judged. No one knows the difficulties of doing the things better than the people that have done the things. There is no one in the world that know it best than the riders that created it. Someone that knows that an OPPO whip off of a gnarly Double drop into a canyon is harder and higher consequence than a 300 foot groomed strait run into a lippy canyon gap backflip. Rampage is probably one of the most technical and toughest extreme sports to judge. You don't get these variables in fmx, bmx, skate or snow. Praise judges
And even in this video you downplay Brens run and introduce bias to try and validate your poor decision making. Listen to yourself explain the run again compared to Whitlocks and you use the word "little" no less than 4 times when describing Brens run. Whitlocks 34ft backflip is described as being "lofty" but not a single adjective used to describe a 46" high risk canyon gap flip. "Don't focus on scores" is an absurd thing to say as well when It's precisely this metric that determines the position. Dissapointed when I watched it and equally so now. 0 accountability
I can’t hear it anymore!! I just have seen a video of a guy (I think it was sebi flow or something) and he did send Brens run. The features were already kind of torn down so it was even sketchier. And guess what? He rode that line with almost no problem. I am not discrediting Brens run with that, but that just shows that his line is rideable & is not as crazy as all of you think. I will be 100% sure, that there won’t be any amateur who is going to replicate for example Brandon’s run.
I agree with judges. Top riders killed it. Tough call this year but I think in the end, top 5 were on point
@@felixghaffar9604I agree. There should not even be discussion about this. Sadly, all this drama has more to do with the fan clubs emotional connection with bf and his dig crew. Using things like a nose bleed or using jordies name to promote a better score than deserving. Maybe in the future, rampage needs to implement a code of conduct so that this dark cloud does not happen again and the riders stay professional.
@@tjpighin
Yeah, that’s exactly the problem! I really like BF but his fanboys ruin the fun rampage brings for me. Don’t get me wrong, I like his more original lines, but his fanbase is so unfair to all the other riders. Gets me to a point where I really wish rampage will exclude Brendan for the future. But also all his podcast are kind of weak in my opinion. Constantly trash talking about how he should have won is just not right.
But I think that’s a British problem in general. Gmbn made a video about the judging & how poor it was. These guys haven’t even been to the venue and are most definitely not able to ride any of this stuff. Yet they talk like they rode rampage since for ever.
@@felixghaffar9604 yes I agree. It is a very twisted view on reality. Sadly they are playing politician more than concentrating on being professional. They have lost my respect and I do think rampage and maybe all mtb events should incorporate a code of conduct policy. Between this and the crankworks finals being canceled this year, it is showing that the entitled generation is ruining the sport throught their politics.
The most confusing thing is when you’re describing with so much importance the exposure in scoring between the first guys top spots without even commenting about it during Brendog run.
Comparing the rock to a 11ft to 22ft step up/step down or his shoot to drop as a normal feature would make all the first pitch about exposure making absolutely no sense….
That is reality. The rock is just that. Comparitively small and not tricked. The roll ins were less tech than he had done in the past events as well. That's why rampage has naturally progresses to what the top 5 riders did. You can only ride a vertical and nasty chute to a point until it turns into a drop. If bf didn't buff his stuff, maybe it would be more deserving of a better score
@@rawproduction7615
An amateur rode BF line a couple days ago. Some of the features already got torn down, yet he did send everything with no problem at all.
So basically you are saying that Brendan should have won, even though an amateur rode his line with no problems? That just makes no sense. Whereas I am 100% sure that nobody is going to recreate semenuks run.
@@felixghaffar9604 Dont use the word amateur. I havent seen the video or know who did it, but someone who rides that line is NOT AN AMATEUR! When you say amateur i think of someone who rides blue trails and not pro lines. That line takes serious skills. An amateur would not ride a line like that.
@@michaelholtan9849
I actually do know this dude. Ofc he is not amateur. But definitely not a rampage level rider.
He also mentioned in his post that BF will probably be soooo pissed about this.
@@Grisseman82
I could send you the insta link. He didn’t do the backflip. That’s not the point. All I am saying is that this shows, that BF line might not be the craziest thing at rampage this year. I don’t want to discredit Brendan. Just want to give a little comparison to the technicality (which is still mental, but not totally unrideable) of his line.
There should be no need for a 16 min explanation video. If you want Rampage to keep its reputation, you should judge runs in a way that resonates with the majority of viewers right away.
Nobody cares if the judging makes sense to you when it doesn't to millions of viewers.
It's like, when people don't get your movie, the solution is not an explainer video. Create a movie that people get right away.
majority of complaining viewers never were on that mountain, think that single crown forks and tricks are not freeride and that Rampage runs should be downhill run without timer, which was never ever the case.
The judges walk all the runs so why cant each rider be given a predetermined course score, shown on screen during the runs. Then the rest of the criteria adjust from there showing the score in each criteria on screen; many other judged sports managed this.
I think the biggest cause of frustration is lack of communication on how the positions are determined.
Also if scoring doesnt matter get rid of it.
We’ve tried to eliminate the scores but the big bosses won’t let us and I agree with you on line scores. I’ve been pushing this for a while !
2 suggestions for judging next year. 1. Favor amplitude higher than all other criteria. They are all dealing with the same vertical, so if one guy chooses to go big, that’s by definition fewer small features possible in his run. 2. Don’t score for opposites on tricks. That’s a slope style thing and super subjective with ambidextrous savants like Brandon and Emil. Tricks, absolutely, bonus for opposite, no.
I completely understand what you're trying to say and that judging the event is a balance of line choice, technically, creativity, risk (exposure) and tricks; however, I think the issue most people have, and that you don't really address with the video, is that the weighting of these different criteria feels wrong. It feels like you give more weight to big tricks on a less creative or technical line which generates big air time rather than a technical, new and creative line which doesn't provide a big trick. If that's the case, then the event is becoming slope style not freeride. Claiming everyone is hitting the big mountain element is basically saying you don't value the big mountain criteria, and that people who incorporate even bigger mountain features or take the time to carve out new and creative lines are not going to get rewarded for it, whereas someone can flip a big gap which has existed for years and get rewarded much more. Red bull needs to decide what type of event they want, communicate that clearly to ridere and fans alike and then share the scoring cards so that you don't have this controversy next year.
I do agree with you on the fact that the production needs to do a more in depth job of showing the viewer what we judges see. If I had a filmer and would per say follow me around for a week while im measuring each feature noting every in run and out run for exposure and noting creativity. Then you all would not be asking these questions and feel so angry at the judging. By the way I've requested they do a piece on this the past two years. next year will be the third year in a row. Fingers crossed they jump on board.
@@darrenberrecloth3918Darren thank you for this video. Honestly I don’t envy you guys. To the point made above what about rating each line before the rider hits it. Several people have said that the judging criteria for a sport like diving might be applicable. For example this line has a difficulty of 9.5 so if the rider hits it clean they can score big. This kind of transparency helps the viewer understand the complexity and would allow riders to adjust line choice to amplify scores. I am sure you have discussed this already but I think the big challenge to the event is the lack of transparency and the minutiae of the details that the regular viewer will not be able to appreciate.
Being creative is easy
Adding to your point like you said, bf did the same banger as 5 years ago. Not to discredit his run, but that is not evolution. I sure as heck could not do a flip over a massive canyon, but the thing is, all the other riders have progressed so much in 5 years. I would not want to watch an event that does not change from year to year. I can just watch replays for that.
@@tjpighin Yep, having the same biggest feature (canyon flip) is a big down, especially seeing that a rookie (Isted) had a much more difficult one.
Just call Rampage what it is - big mountain slopestyle. Still incredibly impressive and high stakes, but trying to mix it in with people riding like Fairclough isn’t working anymore. Riders like Kade Edwards, Gee Atherton, Brage and Fairclough need to come up with a new event separate from the Utah rampage.
Ramapge is about tricks. They did backflips 20 years ago. Darren explains the judging. To call it slope is just ignorant. Slope is not jumping of a cliff! And if you don't like tricks you are in the wrong place. If you join a cagefight as a taekwondo fighter you cannot complain about opponents hitting you in the face.
@@jailbreak1973 grooming landings so you can land slopestyle tricks on a big mountain sounds a lot like big mountain slopestyle to me and many other people. I’m not sure why people get so offended by the label slopestyle - embrace it hold the event in Utah and others who don’t want to compete in big mountain slopestyle will hold an event elsewhere. Darren and his mates can slap each others backs each year without people moaning at them and people like Fairclough, Atherton and Brage can set up their own event . Everyone’s happy.
@danfsims exactly!
@danfsims So if Brendan's event isn't going to have packed landings I assume it will just be a bunch of guys going otb on a 20 foot drops like it was 20 years ago? 10 years ago the main discussing was rampage become too dangerous. Now this year there was only 1 serious injury despite it being the biggest event ever and people want to totally change it because their favorite rider got an 11th place instead of 9th.
I’m not suggesting people change Rampage, like I said the guys like Zink et al can do what they like and good luck to them. There probably needs to be a different event to cater for the different styles of riders. It’s clear that the audience want a different kind of event and this video shows that the judges can’t reconcile the styles either. If Redbull or whoever were smart they’d cater to what their audience want.
Listen to the community. Keep it bold and simple. Rank big hits higher than technical tricks and you are good. - Rampage only can survive if the people keep watching. So, why do people love rampage? Because they love to see how riders keep pushing the limits of what is possible on a bike. Blowing everyone's mind is key. Like Godziek and Steenbergen did. Technicality like Semenuk showed, is more for the nerds. Like I am one too, being in the sport for 24 years now. But give the crowd what they came for.
fyi "community" went wild on the 2nd Semenuk run. Not "nerds" who've never been on the venue - people who watched it IRL. Opo whip was mind blowing.
Smh only people complaining are the people who neither can do trickes nor do they saw earlier freeride movies and competitions.
oh come on. I think what we have heard from the public is that technical free ride is what people want to see. Big air is rad but we have darkfest for that also.
Brendog did not have the biggest line, he had the most unique. I agree he shouldn’t have won. But I think his line was very technical. And he should’ve scored higher, maybe top 5.
It was unique which is why he beat talus and Whitlock. Tried to explain that but perhaps should of gone into detail how the other riders above them just went bigger, faster and threw down on tricks more than the rest all the way up the line
You didn't comment on the technicality of his two chutes. Did you think they were not that technical? You also didn't comment much on his 50 foot canyon backflip. Did you think that had an easy run in and an easy landing?
@@AlexanderBeecroftHis canyon was sick but other than the consequences of falling in the gully it really wouldn't be that impressive of a jump on its own.
Exactly and he would agree.
Kyle strait case his tail whip and slotted to 7th place brendog was a clean run , so its a buddy system .
The explanation is much appreciated. Regarding Brendog, it seems there is just a disconnect between what the viewers and judges want to see. Maybe the viewers can just relate more to what Brendog does than what the big trick riders are doing. Raw tech lines just look gnarly (especially after watching the whole build) and that is what alot of viewers think Rampage is suppose to be. They can relate because they go OTB on the 6' rock roll at the local trail. But how many viewers can even do a back flip much less one off a 60 footer. Kind of like when X-games skiers started spinning and flipping so many times you couldn't even count. The "spin to win" just got boring because it stopped being relatable.
I think the addition of hosepipes has made it seen more slopestyley. Its allowed riders to make more manicured lines which in turn makes it seem less freeridey
I did some posts explaining this on my insta
Might of been on my stories though
@@samwise833 What about the huge wooden features bitd then?
I suggested this last year when you posted a similar video and im gonna suggest this again, judging needs more transparency. Needs to be broken down why you give a particular score to a rider. Cause at the moment it feels super arbitary. You should have a system where maximum ponits are 100, and its all broken down, for example Exposure 30, tricks 20, amplitude: 30 so on so forth. Cause last 2 years were ridiculous and really turned me (and probably many more?) away from rampage. When you have to post a video after every event why your judging looked terrible, you should look into changing something behind the scenes instead of telling us not to worry about the scores.
Darren, you were on of my idols in the past, I'm ex downhill pro racer who was always fascinated about Rampage, because it was always about combining multiple disciplines into one and seeing variety of riders like pro downhill racers, freeriders and slopestylers pushing their limits of comfort zone in which they were - for example seeing a pro downhill racer do a backflip even during whole season he was fighting the clock and doesn't care about backflips, or slopestylers pushing their limits on DH bikes on the steepest course they've ever ridden. Now I saw only slopestyle riders and one downhill racer with unique line which stands out from others and it was the line that everyone wanted to see on event like this, so that's why everyone is complaining and you needed to make this video. I understand your points about safety and how hard is to make these jumps work with huge tricks combined with smooth run, but do you think is this what people really wanted to see? Do you think that there will be so much complaining about underscoring the Brendog or TV if everything was allright (as you trying to tell us)?
My point is, that in the past, nobody complained about underscoring someone like we see past years because there was a bigger variety of types of riders, lines and tricks. Everyone has their own unique ride, style or whatever and everything was allright, but if now there is so much complaining and we can see that riders slowly getting away and don't want to compete on rampage anymore, something is not right.
Been looking forward to this, thanks for making the video. One of the best riders we have ever seen won, ticks all the boxes on the judging criteria while doing it.
I appreciate it's not an easy position for you, but surely the solution is to make the judging more transparent at the actual event!
The criteria is noted in the vid, the real issue is we are not judging each rider on the same line like a slopestyle course. Every rider is taking a different line that is def easier or harder then the next athlete.
Then you need to judge the tricks on the different lines and features which adds another layer of complexity to it all so without seeing each line in person theres always going to be confusion. Its almost a no win situation for us judges.
You have to defend your judging every year! Something is wrong with that! X games and other events similar don’t seem to have the same controversy every year! Piss poor excuses being made every year!
We have all these armchair quarterbacks with little to no experience getting upset about what the experienced (former riders) rankings are. That is the funny part about all of this. I think you did a great job explaining what the judges do and why you score the way you do.
I saw the front flip and was stoked by it. But one big trick without many others and riding sketchy (compared to other riders) is not a way to win. Consistency is how contests are won. Casing landings is also a reason to not score someone as high, regardless of how big their lines and tricks are.
Judging is extremely difficult to do, especially when you have so much talent in the line up. Becuase of that, you need to nit pick every detail. And I guess now tricks are a big part of freeride. If you can do a big line, great! If you can do a big line and trick it at the same time....even better!
@@ShadLife well said 🙌
I love this explanation and I appreciate it so much Darren. This event is so unique because everyone rides a different line and that adds a level of complexity for judging. Scoring tricks on features works great for slopestyle because each athlete rides the same jumps. In my opinion for rampage I think the judging should be done by the fans through a app or something. Another option I like is to implement a physical leaderboard without a score and have a final decision for placement on that board up to the judges after all the runs have been completed. Again this is just my opinion.
Would it be easier if the scoring or ranking could be rearange at the end of run 1?
it does
Appriciate the clarification Darren - Im on the side of raw over slopestyle. Back in the day when you were riding, fucking loved watching you dudes ride back in the early 2000's. Either way cheers for the explaination and also much respect for replying to all the comments 🤘
Your style and everything you’ve done for the sport is incredible. Tricks are absolutely a part of freeride, and I love watching them, but big mountain freeride has that one-of-a-kind, rugged rawness that sets it apart. It’s something I’d love to see preserved, especially since there’s really only one sanctioned event to showcase it. RAMPAGE VS JOYRIDE/CRANKWORX. I think the judging categories are solid, but maybe the weighting and scoring could be adjusted to emphasize the exposed, challenging lines that give big mountain freeride its unique character. It’s that balance between technical skill, risk, and style that makes this subset of the sport so beautiful. All love for you but this was a tough one to understand.
ya I'm with ya on this one as I also love doing raw big mountain faces and pure shredding but the honest truth is without tricks it gets boring and nobody would watch!
People didn’t seem bored at the premiere of the Anytime movie when everyone was shredding crazy steep lines with no tricks. Also, clearly the fans were stoked on Brendog’s line so it seems dismissive to say no one wants to watch steep technical lines.
@@darrenberrecloth3918 agreed tricks are an exciting part of the show just think maybe the weighting of the scorecard could bring a bit more balance in the appreciation of what these guys are putting out there and how they are interpreting the landscape. I am by no means a burn it all down guy and really appreciate you taking the time to explain, engage and address 🙇🏼♂️
I share your opinion 100%
@@darrenberrecloth3918 thats a ridiculous statement
thank you for making this explanation video
but even with the side by side and explanation i still think godziek should have been first and brendog way higher in the ranking
It's always nice to see you pal
This doesn't help much at all. If, as a fan, we aren't supposed to consider the score, then why show a score? If exposure and knarl are considered, why isn't there any kind of line difficulty score or rating, just "trust us"? This explanation frustrates me more than it helps me understand. Sounds like a figure skating judge trying to justify podium results.
Ya I understand your frustration here.
We’ve been trying to ditch the showing of scores but the big bosses want them.
I also want the line scores pre determined and on the screen, been pushing for that for years as I was always a guy that tried my best to build a bad ass big mountain line and felt that would of helped my case many times over.
Plus it would start the controversy early on who’s line is more badass but then people could show and talk about why before the event instead of people like me having to do my best at explaining it all.
Hope this helps and thanks for tuning in.
Darren, not on the topic of this vid but just have to say you are still one of my favorite OG freeriders! I remember being blown away by Where the Trail Ends as a kid and some of your northshore vids! They were so sick!
Another Rampage another explanation video. I backed you last year and I back you again. Maybe a couple points here and there but I didn’t see the miss justice the rest of the internet did. I honestly think so many people watched Brendog videos leading up to the event. His camp has 3 videos a day coming out so the fans over the last 10 days feel invested in his line. Its not a free ride event, its not a slope style event, its not a best trick event, its Rampage. The fans are always going to have an issue with judging but the fans are also going to come back year after year because it’s amazing what this event has evolved into. Thanks for the explanation I think it is going to be hard to change the mindset of the keyboard warriors that feel like they got robbed.
I mostly enjoyed this years Rampage. And I don't claim to be any sort of expert when it comes to judging an event like this, but I felt Brendog's score was an insult. It was not a winning run, maybe even top 5, but a 76 was a literal kick in the balls. The whole vibe of the event changed with that one score.
Big thanks for showing up and facing the issue straight in the eyes. 👍 I think everybody should take a deep breath and realize how lucky we are to watch such an incredible event, and that it's not THAT easy to judge such an event before sending hating messages. I agree with you on the exposure factor, which must be indeed significantly rewarded. And to be honest, I just wonder if many of us do prefer brendog's line simply because it's closer to how we do mountain bike ourselves : we don't do tricks. Personally, I prefered it, and I wonder if another event should maybe be created with that mindset : less jumps, more natural obstacles. whatever happens next, kudos to you, the organization, and the riders because whatever amount of controversy there might be, going down that mountain on a bike is just insanely dangerous and incredible to watch. 🙏
I’m unsure if people would tune in if no tricks were allowed.
@@darrenberrecloth3918 lol they would
@darrenberrecloth3918 your lack of faith in the mtb community is showing again
This was the first year I’ve attended Rampage in person and I have to fully agree with the judging - every feature and the consequences associated with them cannot be communicated through a screen. The first thing I saw when I showed up was Bienve casing his lower canyon gap, that really instilled a level of respect for the features that are built out there. I think a lot more commenters need to get out in the desert before going to bat for riders that were “robbed”.
(except norbs, he’ll always be robbed 😂)
Well said Cole and ya norbs def got robbed lol.
True that. I've visited last year's rampage site this year and was literally blown away by the size of all the features and exposure. Just like you said, all the judging was made clear for me. You definitely have to see it in person to know why riders are scored the way they are. You just cannot see it on tv screen.
I got this feeling that every single person is a judge now. Guys please... Calm down . Most of the comments are just brendog should win, brendog should have ended in top 3 and so on. Maybe he should get better score, i don't know, iam not a judge. I just appreciate that. Darren explained to us, how the judges makes their decision and to me it does make sense. I enjoyed the rampage. My favourite rider didn't won, but is it end of the world? Nah, i don't think so. Grab a bike and go for a ride instead of typing down that upset comments. Don't know how bout you folks, but for me is the best feeling i can get
Makes sense now. The judging is intentionally reductive, purely a measure of linear of feet and number of tricks. One 200' drop and over the finish line would be pretty boring to watch. Virgin may be the stupidest place on earth to hold a slopestyle comp. When most all the spectators say you got it wrong, maybe it's time to consider that maybe you got it wrong. Or at least reexamine the judging criteria.
Much Appreciated for breaking this down Claw. Not an easy job which many don’t see. Worst job of the week. Do you feel judges should be allowed to consult each during the judging ? Maybe like other sports it’s not allowed so there is less influence?
In the future : should uniqueness of line and creativity hold a little more weight ? That is big mountain Freeride ?
Also why not ask for more time and only announce scores after 5-10 riders. Give you chance to really get it dialled. Tv can have a spot where scores roll in ..
Think more of these conversations happen. More public can understand
Reckon get you on the broadcast at the open of show or after the runs,
@@MovingTheNeedlePodcast hey bud,
A lot of the points you bring up we’ve been pushing for. And the segregated judges thing well that’s a tough one because I feel things would go horribly wrong if that was the case.
As for the more time for scores. We’ve pushed so hard for zero rankings until the first heat is done like the ol days but people want to see instant satisfaction and they want to see a score.
Keep in mind the people on these comment boards are a fraction of the people that watch this event and the negatives are always the loudest….
@@darrenberrecloth3918 Yeah CLAW. Cheers for the reply. More time for scores would help the event it seems and you judges..
You bring up a solid point, and it's definitely a hot topic in the mountain biking community! The shift in Rampage judging criteria has been a point of contention for many. The roots of freeride lie in line choice, creativity in using the terrain, and riding with style, rather than focusing solely on throwing down a bunch of tricks. But, as you mentioned, the recent judging has leaned more towards rewarding trick-heavy runs, which has changed the essence of the event.
Bren's run probably represents that more pure vision of freeride-creative line choice and reading the terrain in a way that not many others do. But if the judges are favoring trick progression, riders like him can end up scoring lower even if they ride impressively in other respects. It's that balance between staying true to your own riding style and adapting to the criteria of the event.
The way Swatch 9s highlights progression through tricks and big-air features seems like a possible direction for Rampage. If the event continues down this path, we might end up seeing a more trick-centric version of Rampage, just with the raw and rugged terrain of Utah.
I watched this and the runs again. Still like Szymons run the best, but I am no judge and no pro. Maybe it does not translate the best via flat screen or maybe I prefer front flips and double backflips over single crown trickery. In any way thanks a ton for the time and explanation.
Re-watched Drop In TV recently…how we can so quickly forget our roots…Freeride can progress as it has and as it should, but not to the point where a freeride competition no longer rewards the gnarliest lines. Semenuk had a fantastic slope style run and won rampage…It’s sad to see the identity and credibility of the competition being lost.
I think there is no doubt that the vlog footage Brendog puts out goes a long way towards his fans feeling he got robbed. If viewers had the time (and it would require almost a week off work) to watch all the build footage from all the crews, they would see that every crew puts loads into this event. No one is phoning this in, everyone is bleeding, stressing, getting up before dawn, etc. last year I had more time and I watched loads of content and BF’s crew is good at making relatable content, and it’s easier for me to understand the battleship feature than an opo tail whip. I really appreciate bearclaw making videos like this or getting on moving the needle podcast last year and defending the judges’ decisions, because in the moment, I’m always confused by the rankings. I think redbull could do a better job of explaining each line in the broadcast, tricks aside. If exposure, technicality of in run and outrun, and size stats for each feature were better explained before each rider dropped, I would better understand the judging in the moment, and be way more impressed I think as well. SG’s run looks so massive at first pass it’s so hard to see how Brendan won, but then bearclaw breaks down the exposure and technicality and I get it. It just takes a few weeks for the bearclaw explanation to come out. If that analysis could be in broadcast, that would be so much appreciated
@@Jpwillia1 I’ve tried very hard to get a piece to showcase this before the event.
Break it all down so people coming into the event know what’s what and why !
Hey @redbull are we listening yet?
I think it's great that you make the effort to explain judging and I have the greatest respect for every rider and judge out there and I love Rampage and the vibe among the riders as they continue to push themselves to do crazier tricks and the sick lines. I think the style of judging sucks because I think it brings bad vibes into such a great event. I would like to see the way of judging to change in the future, even if I can't say exactly what needs to change. but I don't think any of the riders deserve to be made bad. For me they are all winners and how you said the level is getting higher and higher. This year i personally would like to see Szymon, Tom v. St. and Semenuk on place 1 all 3 riders did so amazing runs in so different ways and in my opinion it is not possible to compare them. And that is the point where it gets frustrating for the viewers and i hope there will be some changes in the way of judging in the next years.
I get that scores from one year to another are hard to compare, but it sounds like the judging criteria is more structured than i thought and therefore it should be pretty consistent from year to year. What was the reason for Brendog's run being scored lower than the last time he rode it, considering he did everything and more than he did previously.
@@geeberg5129 there was simply 10 riders that went bigger, faster and brought their trick score higher than he did last time.
Thanks for putting this together for some clarity, some very valid points. Insanely difficult job being a judge. Majority of these negative people forget how talented of a rider you are and that you helped to shape this event. Most of them haven’t hit anything beyond a 10 foot tabletop 😂
Semenuk could have rode his line on a hard tail. Brendog’s line required a DH bike. That is a line with technicality and exposure. I blame Bearclaw for bringing tricks into Rampage with that Super Seater he did that one year. Need big mountain guys to judge Rampage like Vanderham, Schley, Simmons, etc.
Well I’d def be afraid to watch Semenuk try to ride his line on a hard tail but if anyone could drop in on a line with a hard tail it would be him. And ya sorry about that whole doing tricks thing!
@@ratcamaro lol, 2 random german guys just rode the line, one on a 160mm trail bike so stop talking nonsense
Hahahaha one of the smartest guy 🤡
@@theotrovato8250source?
@@theotrovato8250 can I get the link to those 2 guys?
Props to you for putting out a video on such a tough topic. I'm sure you've been blasted by the public for the last 2 weeks.
I really think YOU as a judge should come out and defend your score at the event not Gully. Having a PR guy, who had no say in the score doesn't help. Even if people disagree with your final product, I don't agree with everything, I have to believe you would have given a better answer than, "he made it look easy." Love Gully, but I really think you or one of the other judges should stand up after giving the score and then give your assessment.
Thanks for your thoughts
People need to understand the difference between how many folks are capable of these bike tricks and how many people are capable of these flip tricks.
The amount of people on the planet that can backflip and frontflip is much higher than just tailwhip a bike.
Opposite tailwhips on enduro bikes are one of the most uncommon bike tricks with enduro bikes today.
The slack head angle makes it much more difficult to tailwhip than a hardtail or bmx.
There is a 13 year old that can triple backflip bikes today.
This isn’t skiing. This is biking.
I feel like rampage as a competition is to open and free to the competitors to be won by a single rider. If the judging criteria were clearer and we got a percentage breakdown for what caried a highest weight, that would help. But, i feel like to truly embarrass the "freeride spirit" there should be sperate awards: gnarliest run, biggest tricks, most thecnical, innovative design, ... . That way we actually reward every aspect of "freeride". It's hard to accepted that one guys run was so much better than another's when their lines are so difrent in styles. It feels unfair to judge them on the same criteria.
Now, i know this would completely through a wrench in the spokes of the event. Changing the scoring, awards and general flow of the whole event. I by no means expected the event to change in any major way. Just thought id through my two cents in and see what others think.
I apprecia the video, and i look forwards to all the same drama again next year😉
I think whith the judging the way it is now, it comes the the viewers (and possibly some riders) not fully knowing what is priorizing the scores. Like whe know thicks, amplitude, exposure, cleanliness, flow, and others are factored in. But the exact percentage and weight that those attributes carry isn't fully clear. And we don't get a breakdown of how a run scored on individual criteria. Without that information, we kind of have to guess.
I think what you are talking about is more the lines of Banff film festival kinda stuff. Everyone gets an award for their own individuality.
I don't think this is something that helps drive progression. If I was a pro rider and I was pushing the sport to new insane levels, I would not be willing to put my health on the line so that everyone would get rewarded. Competition pushes top athletes to new levels and it pushes them to perform better than they thought possible. That is what gives everyone drive to achieve such hights.
While watching old videos due to this controversy, I saw many riders saying things like, my run went well but I was disappointed with my score in the end. This is a reality of competition. There is one winner and the rest typically are disappointed. That disappointment is what gives the champions drive to do better in the future. I loved watching lacondagy talk about how he came back with the fire in his eyes and drive to win, and he did just that. This is what competition is all about.
At a pro level, these riders are paid to be respectful and to be roll models for future athletes. There is a self awareness with this that you take an L with honor and use that to fuel your passion for the future. With that honor, there should be no cancel culture or shaming a fellow rider for doing better than you. I don't see a place for this and maybe there should be a code of conduct with all of this. I can't imagine the hate brandon feels and it's a shame that such a great event has been overshadowed by one rider and his fans. At minimum, I would expect that rider to make an apology video, but that does not seem to be the case. He continues to go on making this event about him. He has lost a few fans including myself and others I know. This is a bad look for the sport and a dark future if this is the new normal acceptance for behavior
@tjpighin That's fair, I get what you're saying. I wasn't proposing everything gets an award, just that we find a way to reward the different competition styles. I think the avent is too open to open to the competitors' interpretation of a sick run. They're given open reins to build their own runs, then graded strict (ish) criteria. It just feels odd. We've got a bunch of other events that promote very specific riding attributes (fastest down and craziest tricks). It would be cool if they could find a way to promote progression in creativity. It would be cool if rampage could be an outlier competition, different from all the other formulaic competitions.
I do also want to make it clear, I understand what things are the way they are and that they won't really, and can't really change much. It needs to be a mainstream sport so they can keep sponsors, and so non mountain bikers find it cool to watch. Pushing the competition into big tricks also makes sense. It's an easy scoring metric, and it makes for easily sharable viral clips.
So I get it (at least a small portion of it), they just have a unique opportunity with the setup of the event to promote a new style of riding, a possible evolution in a different direction with a more creative competition aspect. Now, i don't know how that would look or even if it's possible to implement (I doubt it), but it's just something I've been thinking about.
@@zach.225 I see what you are saying, and I do agree with you in some aspects. I do believe they kinda structured rampage around free skiing competition where all riders have a start and a finish, and then they have the freedom to express how they can make the most hyped run from top to bottom. That contains many things like speed, style, excitement, lines, and execution. Obviously, a natural evolution of this is to add in tricks. If two guys have the same gap, then difficulty of tricks will be the main factor that determines one being better than the other. I think, in the past, riders with fewer tricks have been able to win, but their run is typically like waaayyyyy more gnarly than the guys doing crazy tricks.
I get what you are saying about the more raw aspect and I think mostbof us agree that is great to see. The fact is that many years ago and not long after it's conception, riders outgrew the limitations of natural terrain in this venue. Drops and gaps were getting so large that the soil could not naturally withstand the impacts and was creating many injuries during the event. The terrain became the limiting factor to progression and also became a safety Hazzard. Typically a good chunk of the finals field was out due to injury. To progress the sport and the wow factor, I think is what drove the event to start building structures to make it safer but also bigger and more of a spectacle. Fans and riders didn't particularly enjoy the esthetics of the wood structures which I believe is when the sand bags came into play. So yes as much as raw is still a great concept. It does get boring and repetitive after a while. It might be great to see a new venue and have a no dig no practice side event one year just to see what the riders can figure out and to show the fans what it was like back in the day haha idk
Great explanation but you’ll never satisfy the armchair judges, I would try ignore the chatter. Keep up the good work Darren!
It's so simple.
If anyone cared about opposite tail whips they'd watch slopestyle
Nothing wrong with slopestyle, but it does get a bit dull after a few runs precisely because you start comparing the same tricks whether they are singles, doubles or triples etc. I am sure they are mind-bendingly difficult things to do but, that is from a rider's perspective. From a spectator's perspective, it gets a bit dull and repetitive. So if that is your criteria then fair enough. The problem is it does not reflect what spectators want from freeride. As shown in the gap between the people's champion scores and judges' scores.
Ultimately, this should be a spectacle and excite spectators. Without an audience, there is no show, right?
When what the judges expect becomes too far removed from what the spectators want/expect, that's a problem for any sport.
It's why things like Dark Fest work: Its banger big jumps and no judges to misjudge the mood.
And if your criteria is so out of line with the audience, change your criteria. Rampage as everyone has been saying should be about big mountains, rowdy, risky riding. Riding that mere mortals cannot do, not tricks mere mortals cannot do. There is a time and place for that and it's not here.
Anybody complaining that Monster Darkfest is a "freeride" event now? Those are manicured even more perfectly with bulldozers...
Thanks for making this. I pretty much agree... like you said tom shouldve been on the poduim. Hate to ask this but are the judges drug tested?
Great video Darren
The old style of freeride came with so many crashes on much smaller features. This years event was absolutely insane for airtime and exposure. That is what this terrain can deliver- it’s not dirt surfing down a steep chute for 5 minutes straight Brage or Sorge style - that would be a different event. What I think irks some is that Semenuk can add such a high level of difficulty to mid size features that he beats out the wild and loose run of Godzie. You guys have to do something though since this years outcome really sucked the air out of the event and killed all the stoke. This is not good for the event either since the trust seems lost.
its weird when a freestyle sport is judged by the competitors best friends, it just doesn't feel right. there is no way that the friendship won't play a big role and it sure shows.
you screwed the pooch, its a freeride event now...with friends judging
Darren, if Szymon would have laced the flatspin on the canyon before his 3 drop do you think he deserved this W? I thought you guys got the top 5 right and the order could have gone either way.
Everyone saying its gone slopestyle dont realize that packed landings and decent run-ins/outs are the only way these guys can go this big and im all for it.
You implore us to ignore the scoring, and then tell us to trust that you score the lines. If thats the case why isnt this ever shown?
Of course people want to see tricks...the thing that is ignored is that we can see tricks in groomed landings at Crankworx. Rampage isnt sypposed to be Crankworx and thus a lot of people would rather see a rowdier line that may potentially induce less tricks.
The balance is wrong, and everything you have said pushes this balance yet further away from what a large chunk of the audience seem to want to see.
Again. But for me this time was way better. Others also had a huge canyon gap. Battleship stuff missing. And I like to add Darren was right about the Battleship. Lewis showed up with a shovel and a bunch of friends and jumped it. Szymon on top for a long time. He could have made a second run. It was clear that Semenuk would win if he completes his run. I think Adolf deserved a lot more. But I think it was good judging.
This is what ive been saying throwing a tailwhip was mad sketchy af, In a boxing match Semenuk throw more punches than Godziek even though Godziek thrown solid punches the score didn't made it. There are tons of average Rampage watchers here also count in Crankworx Slopestyle watchers I bet they are the same people who cant comprehend why Emil was over Godziek and Godziek was over Emil in the past competitions.
You should have prepared a better explanation of the rankings publicly before the race, not mount it now to fit your agenda. At the same time you should have rated the difficulty of each line beforehand and add points for tricks/speed during the race, possibly deduct points for a dropped foot, cased jump, people would see online the points for line difficulty before the race.
You know what I actually filmed exactly that the day before the event after I finished evaluating all the lines.
I watched it and then realized that some of the athletes would be disappointed and in some cases perhaps say screw it my line doesn’t hold up so I’m not riding.
You see every rider is so focused on their line and convinced they have a shot in the top mix as they have to be and if someone messed that up with some bummer news it could really suck so I opted to not post it.
Adding to this, there are many great videos and clips of riders talking about the progression and the vision of rampage from the start. During the dead air of the intermission, maybe use that time to inform the uneducated viewers and fans of the history and progression and why it has become what it is now.
In many of the comments I have seen, it seems that people don't have a good understanding of the roots of all this. They seem to have made up their own recollection of the roots of rampage. They don't seem to remember all the injuries and the fact that most drops into soft dirt created crashes and inconsistencies that took away from the end result as a professional event. This also put a limit on the boundaries achievable by the riders.
“returning to a venue means it’s more dialed and more packed” which essentially means that it’s less freeride and more slope style. the hypocrisy surrounding this event is absurd now, just gonna start watching Joyride replays instead of wasting time thinking Rampage is going to be different.
One final note, when you compared Brendogs and Lukes run, you missed one of the flips he did when you described it. You totally didn't mention the risks, exposure of flipping the canyon. Too short dead, too long smashing into the run out. And you didn't talk about the exposure of landing on the rock. Again too short huge issues, too long death, and the speed having to be perfect.
Thanks for having the guts to speak up, Darren! Did you guys think about restricting riders to use dual-crown forks only? I see the ride wouldn't be "free" anymore, but it would bring the big mountain vibe for the audience and hopefully cut all the discussions about slopestyle tricks
unbelievably stupid idea
4,487 views at the time of my comment, 67 likes.
Clearly, you’re wrong and the public knows it. Y’all have destroyed Rampage by making it a slopestyle event.
I was the loud mouth who stated this last year, was gawked at by other viewers. I also said I would no longer watch, which I stood firm on. Now, I’m glad.
This is on you, the other judges and the event organizers.
We want big hits, not showboat tricks. I wanna see someone huck that 70ft drop, clear the canyon or ride the sketchiest line at the event.
Rampage is dead, long live Rampage.
Also worth noting the crowd who were there, booed the judges.
If we trust your rigour and impartiality in your process, we can only conclude that your group of judges' weightings differ from the wider community's weightings in regards to these categories for this particular event. You can have your own truth and be content in that, Darren, but it is your subjective opinion. Where it grates is that tens of thousands around the world also feel like we have a stake in what we want rewarded and what we want to watch, and that seems to be weighted very differently to yourselves. You and the judges have such a stranglehold on the direction of a whole sport in your subjective weightings. Where else does that happen? Honestly, I feel the right thing to do would be to rotate more of the judges each year as this event sets the tone for a whole sport, and more of the luminaries of freeride (especially more from other regions) deserve to influence these internal judging debates and help realign with the community.
So the explanation is "its a slopestyle event" and linechoice almost doesnt matters because everyone is on the same mountainrange.... srsly
Thanks for the good explanation. 🙏🏼
I think all the riders rode amazingly. Brendog's score being in the mid 70's was kind of disrespectful though. If it is all about placing, then decrease the range of scores like you said you could do.
You guys give credit for exposure? And what about last year Rampage? The same shit with brendog - who rode a line with more exposure and risk than brendog? You guys should be ashamed of this bullshit.
Brendon’s run was the sickest line, but the difficulty of the run was not comparable to the difficulty of the tricks and amplitude landed by godziek and semenuk on their runs. Any of the riders could have cleared Brendog’s run. No one could have sent what semenuk sent, with the tricks -> speed -> exposure. That’s why he is clearly the winner here. I don’t think anyone else could have sent the double back flip. With the big cases Godziek took, he was clearly the runner up. The second semenuk landed that run, personally, I had a strong feeling he was a dub before the judges even threw the score down.
we do, you need to have a look at all the other riders that had more exposure than the individual you are mentioning. FYI theres a video about to go viral you should have a peek at.
@NatureDeliversSound Tom Isted said that Brendog is the only one to clear it, but yes, the internet knows better ;)
On the other hand, it would be great to see other riders going different lines to show if it is really that special.
@@slavvduroterefere3434 yeah I feel that, but those guys don’t want to put any of their fellow riders down. Theyre hyped on brendog’s run as we all are. But reality is the other riders are focused on their own runs.
@@slavvduroterefere3434 why risk getting hurt during practice on brendog’s run? Doesn’t make sense. Tom knows damn well if he really wanted to clear his run, he could
I think the main disconnect between fans expectations and the results comes down to the weighting of what we want the event to be. Tricks are cool on massive features and I’m not a “free rider” so I can’t speak to what the sport is but the viewers can not relate to what a oppo whip on a Lilly pad feels like. This is the reason why slopestyle lost a lot of appeal and is on the down. People can relate to taking creative lines and steep shoots so that’s what the viewers want to be rewarded not some combination of flips and spins that we don’t understand. That being said your job is not to pick a winner on what the fans want the sport to be you job is to pick a winner on the criteria that you have been given.
I still don’t buy this explanation…..all those bar spins are not freeride. We want more Robbie Burdon style leaps into the sides of cliffs, instead of oppo tailwhips (keep that in the bike park). Bring freeride back, and you won’t get the long time fans howling against you
You can see Darren's ears are still on fire from all the boos reverberating from The Canyons after they robbed brendog 😂. If you're going to equate risk into the score than what would have happened if brendog came up short on that 50 ft Canyon backflip. But ultimately he had two big features and I can see how that would have scored lower Overall I don't really care that much about the judging and most folks got to ride their dream run was incredible to see.
His TED talk made sense to me……💯🎄🎄🎄 Fist bump for da Claw for keeping it real. 🤜🏻 🎄🎄🎄
I've watched every Rampage since 2014 but I don't think I will next year cause the judging has been consistently shit, ever since Barrecloth started judging TBH. The bias is so obvious. Do the sport a favor and let the opinions of others be heard, because you're ruining this incredible event.
might be unpopular opinion but good job out there. this video could be 4x as long explaining everything thoroughly, but probably none of haters would watch/acknowledge anything anyway
I don't think it's unpopular. Most pro riders I have talked to agree and especially once there is proper productive conversation about it. Sadly with social media now, we see one side of the story, which turns bias very quickly.
Haha ya it was definitely longer and I cut it down as I felt this is bit more to the point
a worthwhile post - unfortunately it seems that MTB judges have quickly become like football referees. Not an easy job when there's so much hate around. Congratulations to everyone who survived such a ridiculous and life threatening event. Despite this however I'm not sure there's any other sport that rewards competitors for doing something more dangerous. Encouraging such high risk might be seen as irresponsible when all is said and done. It's like instagram, the worse the crash is, the more likes you get! Pushing the sport is great, but it sure comes with a high level of danger. It's a shame that to get anywhere in mountain biking you have to sign up for a string of broken bones and hospitalisations. It's actually very sad. But such is life.
#freerideaintfree
OK, so we the riders are idiots and you the judges are genius...
Needing a 15 minute video to justify the judging should tell you something is wrong. Unfortunately it seems like the glory days of Rampage are gone and it’s just another slopestyle contest to appeal to mass audiences. Freeriders no longer have a competitive event to call their own
Stop judging and do something you’re good at!
I really appreciate you explaining how the Rampage judges score. It makes a lot of sense. It is a measured way and not an easy way to determine a run to score. Thanks Darren for explaining it in such detail. 🙌🙌🙌
nope
Thanks for the great explanation, Legend.
Seemingly people who hate the tricks in Rampage runs are the ones that never did them themselves, and cause that is so absurdly out of reach for them - they hate it. Same story year over year.
Please do not make Rampage into some downhill run competition without a timer, lol.
I was at the event this year for the first time and all guessed almost all scores correct to 3-4 pts - it was that clear of a judging for me and how great you guys did your job.
This ain't slopestyle but rampage, HUGE risks vs modesty risks, 🤫 💰
Bro the fans are ruining this event. The judging was pretty damn good. To me TVS deserved to score better than TMac, but I wasn't there to see TMac's line in person. Props for coming out and giving an explanation of your judging criteria.
Dude, what do you know about mtn biking? 😂😂
I judged two snowboard contests and said never again, because it’s a completely thankless job, and no matter what, everyone shits on you.
The fact that those two guys rode brendan’s line says enough about how gnarly/unique it was. If a rider is about the only one in his class to be able to make it down the run should score big points but as shown by these guys it’s not, unlike godziek or semenuk’s runs which I highly doubt will be copied anytime soon.
I must admit I nearly threw my laptop out of the window when watching the event but this has put things in context and has made me understand the scoring a bit more.
the claw opens the can of worms
Great event, great riders, very poor judging.
I was getting worried, the apocalypse was coming! Darren didn't release a video, full of patronizing, contradictions, arrogance, and covert belittling, like we are 5 year olds, and didn't watch the same competition as everyone else...... WHEW! He came through clutch, and rallied! All is right with the world again.
See you have just overvalued amplitude and tricks. Tech and creativity should have equal value. That's what freeride is. The judges are trick riders not downhillers. It should be rider judged after the event.
No questions for the judging! The guys made freeride what we have and now they judge it!
This video wasn't very good and I've seen much better. I'll give it a score of seve......
I love how nobody is talking about how cold it is when he's filming this in a t-shirt. You can see his breath.
Seems to me maybe you should of never made this video and kept your opinions to yourself.
For me, rampage is drifting away from free ride it’s becoming more soapstyle
Does anyone here care about tail whips? Let
Me know with the thumbs
where youre wrong is line difficulty. the trick has nothing to do with line difficulty. where you do the tricks matter more than the tricks themselves. Brendog was not robbed but syszmon deserved to win. semenuk deserved 4th
Ok i forgot you were a judge... stfu
It is very clear that semenuk’s run was a winner. That is why these guys are the judges. Not Nathan 4432
hey nathan, your right about this line you said "where you do the tricks matter more than the tricks themselves" . Thats the point I was trying to get across is that if brandon crashed on his opposite whip vs szymon crashing on his flip, Semenuk would most likely going to the hospital as where szymon's landing was quite buff and safe to crash on. Let me know if this helps?
@darrenberrecloth3918 what's your thoughts on tricks only being worth 10% or less of the final score?
again
Πώς τους πετσόκοψες έτσι!
The reality is brendog fan make a lot of noise and are biased because of all the digging videos and media his team put out, it deforms the vision of the viewers
He is clearly the guy with the most fans out there and to be honest so am I. I love those dudes and the content they put out, they are writing the book on how to pump up the hype machine and its awesome.
100% agree
@@darrenberrecloth3918sadly they are crossing the lines between building hype and bringing everyone else down. I watched all their videos and even the finals video saying something about being robbed. With all this negative drama they created when they didn't like his score, this caused me to look into things deeper. Quite frankly, this unprofessional behavior has prompted me to unsubcribe to his channel and he has lost a fan. It's sad to see it come to this point and for this to overshadow such a great year of competition at rampage. It was great to see the drama with the nose bleed and all the messing around. Then they continued talking about jordies line and such, but it is disappointing to see that it's like everyone is expecting to see this transformed into points on finals day.
I enjoy that the competition is judged on the run itself and not on the build and antics off the mountain. In the end, this is not a reality show, this is a serious competition at the forefront of the sport.
All this brendog BS is depressing. He wasn’t robbed. His run was no where near as big and technical and gnarly as TVS, TMac and SG. They need to shut it. Stop complaining and stop watching if that’s what you want to do.
@@jeranemo5504 for real, most annoying fanbase in mtb, most of them can't even ride and only watch brendog videos of the event.