So nice to see the best riders on Earth giving love and props to other amazing riders. That's why I love the MTB community. No huge egos, just massive skill.
Cam and Kyle are the perfect guest to clear up some things. The fans are so into brandog because they have spent 10 days watching videos with his dig team. 3-4 a day so they fill more involved in it. Cam and Kyle are so fun to watch skirt around not trying too hurt anyone’s feelings or piss off the industry. What I love is how they have been staples of Rampage they don’t complain about the judges they choose a different strategy.
I don’t blame the judges, I blame the judging criteria. If you compare red bull rampage and slopestyle it is nearly identical. However, to be fair, the criteria hasn’t changed much from the early days of red bull rampage, but the progression in the sport has. What would make judging these events easier and make it better for athletes and for fans is to alter the criteria for this event so that riders are challenged to diversify their skill sets. Have a component that would require riders to build challenging chutes and unique features like Brendan’s and make amplitude and line choice worth more than tricks and be very transparent about it so riders can train towards that throughout the year in preparation. I think this would greatly level the playing field and push the sport in new exciting ways. If all else fails start a new competition for the sport, Monster Mayhem?
I mean, I appreciate the opinion on Brens run. But I think everyone's still missing the point that, yes I don't think he deserves 1st - but he's done something different and unique.. that's why he's so loved, because he provides something new and refreshing. He's riding the terrain, not the trails. sick talk though
And the fact that there’s so much more risk involved on his run. Sure he’s not doing the biggest drops. But he has the biggest consequence to get severely injured/ die on his run. And no one at rampage builds lines with such consequence
Just brilliant. Kyle and Cam come across as real genuine good humans and the opinions expressed are factually based, well thought out, and insightful. Thank you for your perspectives and to Gypsy for providing this much needed interview. Cam McCaul on Needles podcast also provides keen insight into this year's Rampage. Finally, I hope the Gypsy scoring matrix is considered as solutions are needed.
Great insight! Cheers from México and just would like to add that maybe they should include a rider’s (competitors) vote to that of the judges… like a 50/50 thing between both of them?
Respect to them all, but it’s pretty straight forward why everyone is fixated on Brendan’s run. It’s the general mtb populations idea of a raw freeride line and he still flipped a 50 foot canyon. Was it a winning run, no. But to score so low that he isn’t even invited back is an insult. Judging is and always will be an issue with every sport but this years was seriously tragic across the whole list. It is a shame that other riders aren’t as talked about. But if your getting 50% + on more then one platform for rider of the day votes i think the people have spoken. Doesn’t mean any disrespect to the biggest front flip in history or double flips, single crown tricks. It’s just not what people want to see coming out of rampage at this moment. It all comes in waves. If it all goes back to raw freeride the tables will turn in a few years and people will want tricks. I’d place rampage up there with one of the hardest events to judge. Personally I’ve watched Brens run multiple times, not a single replay of Tom’s. I still respect it and it should have podiumed but that’s just not what I enjoy to watch.
I respect this comment. I don't agree with everything but it's good to see someone with good input finally from the bf side of things. I do think the reason he got so many votes was due to his social media presence. Many people have been saying, they worked so hard that they deserve it. This shows me a lot of the bf fan hype was less about technical and more about being relatable. It's such a shame that everyone hated on the judges and brandon so much and overshadowed what all the top 5 did.
@@tjpighin to be fair some of the riders he went against on the fan voting side have a bigger following then him to though. But I think it does go deeper than just the run itself and that side of it can’t be judged. I definitely have a different top 3 in my head and Brendog wasn’t there, that 4-8 position is more realistic but also everyone else in those spots is hard to move up or down without somebody else getting robbed. His line to me was the only one that stood out from the rest. Big or small it was different and more freeride. I will add that it’s impressive what they are flipping down, but watching a backflip multiple times in the same run isn’t that appealing. It’s gnarly but it gets repetitive if that makes sense.
@TylerRodger yaaaa, I totally get that. It's one of the easier tricks to do off of big features. Same with bf doing his 2 versions of a flip. That's why I think Brandon deserved the 1st. He has always been innovative with everything he does, and this year was no exception. The double drop skipper and the speed and the technicality. He is just soooooo beyond what the normal fan even understands and he makes it look so easy that people just don't even know what happened or how insanely hard and dangerous it truely is. And ya, I didn't mean followers when I said the social media presence. He was the vlog everyone was watching and was on all platforms I saw. Same as last years event, I pretty much only saw his stuff. I actually made a comment to a buddy from Utah before the event that you sure don't see any footage from or about Brandon or tom or sorge. All you saw the whole time was bf's build and the t Mac canyon, then a few sends off the sender. I made the comment that it seems alllll the media revolves around bf and his dig crew. That's why I don't think they can do judging any other way. No fans judging because, as we saw, the fans can get out of hand really quickly. It's just like anything in our lives, if we continue to see someone over and over and over, then that is all you think about.
@TylerRodger and ya, to be honest, watching in real time, I was kinda like, hmmmm, that's not what I would have scored this person or that. Then, because of all the drama and bf/his diggers acting up and all the things, I really started to look at each run like I was judging. I really started looking at all the close ups of the ground and such. Then I looked at the runs from 5 and 6 years ago, and I'm like, ok, I fully agree with judges now.
@@tjpighin I also think it’s to the point where they could have a best trick event separate to the main contest that is worth more then just a trophy. T-Mac vs Tom’s runs is a good case for that. Run for run imo T-Mac checked every box with speed, flow, and big features top to bottom but how can you not reward Tom with at least a podium for that level of commitment. Maybe more transparency with what the judges want to see before the event starts would help that to. Obviously everyone wants to see it all but that’s a big ask of the riders. Insert godziek who was closest to filling that void but ultimately technical tricks took it. It’s all freeride at the end of the day everyone just sees it different.
Cam brought up the key issue, THIS YEAR was diverse. Next year won’t because of the how bad Brendan and others who weren’t going slopestyle got screwed.
Listening all the way through everything that was said shows why slopestyle is the ONLY thing now: - Any setup or slowdown means deduction aka features must flow into each other aka the entire purpose of slopestyle. - Unique independent lines are punished. Leaving anything raw because you’re digging your own line is to be punished. This will just already promote shared lines that are super manicured due to multiple digging teams working on the same line. - Tricks and trickable features are the key. Once again moving away from anything not slopestyle. The fundamental question most people are asking is Rampage just a desert slopestyle event now? If so, it is no longer Rampage.
@nahbrah12345 actually I just watched a vid of Tyler McCaul run that has better and closer camera position throughout the course and it was more technical than what we have seen and that made me convinced why Semenuk and Tyler was on the podium (They shared some of the technical lines).
Disagree. If you already decide the winner potentially before the start, most riders simply won't even run because why risk it? If you run is only worth 10-15 points less, you will never make that up, so you leave right there. Will be even more boring than it already is.
love to hear about other pro's thoughts. amazing insights from our mtb heroes. hope u get well soon Cam. wud love to also see this sugested max possible points judging and better descriptions of all these technical nuances and better closeup slomos of each rider breakdowns
Fairclough's 4th place run he rode soo much better. He was faster and rowdier. More fun to watch. He was so careful this year
Месяц назад+1
Why is entry speed a reason on Brendan's mark down? He stomped every line with perfection, no one else has ridden it and knows what speed is needed to drop in to it. If someone went super slow off a massive drop but stomped it would it be marked down? No because they went the appropriate speed to lace the feature. Fkn dumb thing to say.
Great podcast….i think Zink and strait come across great and listening to them discuss it makes sense from their viewpoint….as og’s and locals I respect it’s there baby and they’ve progressed it want it to progress in the way they see fit. Being a Brit, a dh fan and a Brendog fan I have a different take on what I thought rampage was and clearly I’m wrong as they don’t rate brendogs line….and I think there’s a real gap for a new event. The combed take offs and landings with tricks are undoubtedly awesome but aren’t really what I thought it was all about or what I tuned in for. I want to see riders ride down raw. Build their own line and ride down steep chutes and link parts of the mountain by crossing canyons. For me this current version of rampage is guys mainly from a slopestyle background sharing lots of pre made lines from rampages before and jump down it from take off to landing-take off to landing. It’s also very hard to distinguish between the lines as it all looks the same. Think lines like gee Athertons’s knife edge, where he nearly dies after falling off a pretty much unrideable line ridge line, the dolomites one or his recent trip to Kazakhstan where the terrain looks similar to rampage, find lines down things that don’t look rideable and maybe that might make people grasp what a lot of people thought rampage was and what they want it to be. Maybe a new venue would be needed for a new event as there’s too many ramps on those ones in Utah now. Also people need to watch the full 50 minute drive time pod and see what brendog actually said in context of a long conversation rather than be offended by one sentence that’s been clipped. I don’t think he would have wanted fellow riders past and present to feel disrespected from what he said.
I mean Brandons run was sick but there is 7 step ups. Two trick jumps and 3 small drops. The coolest was the bigger Lilly pad tail whip and that was it really
That's because they are one of the easier features to ride. A chute can only get so hard and gnarly before it either becomes a drop or it is impossible. This is why rampage has naturally progressed to where it is today. It's good to have a guy that wants to do something like that, but he better be charging the heck out of it and on the absolute raged edge
@@tjpighin yea it is super obvious too. zink had the biggest robbery in 2015. gnarliest line by far, huge 360, monster stepdown flip. but he had a chute up top. shit on. its wild that riders even look for that now, because it never scores high.
@@N_Parrish totally, and the riders that are trying to win have adapted. Like these guys have said, they are not going to sacrifice some gnarly drop for a chute because it's not going to score well. So that score is on the rider that chose the line that knowingly does not score as high, not the judges scoring it. Just like if a rider meanders down the mountain vs a rider that is charging down slashing turns and trying to keep the intensity up. Obviously that is a choice that each rider made and one should be rewarded over the other. It's not about if the judges are being bias, it's about calling it what it is. Calling a spade a spade.
I hope this year will help change how the judge’s view this event. It’s not just about tricks, it’s about the line choice flow and yeah sure then tricks.
Love the scoring idea of a pre-run scoring analysis buy the rider. They already does that in some disciplines, like diving, and the. You can get judge on the execution. Knowing in advance the run that they want to put in doesn’t get any excitement out of the equation and could possibly even get people psych to see it. Line criteria score : 1. Use of the terrain/creativity 2. Number and size of the feature 3. Exposure 4. Technical difficulty(of the trick or feature) Execution 1. Flow 2. Amplitude 3. Precision (mistake)
Maybe they could have something like an open practice day to help the judging. Where all the riders have the opportunity to ride each others lines, that way if say hardly anyone is willing to hit certain features than it should score higher. It would remove any reason to complain about scores for 'crazy lines' like if almost everyone sends Brendan's line then people cant say he should have scored higher, and things like Toms frontflip, no one else was going to attempt it so it should have scored him a higher total. If it happens that no one wants to hit Jordies drop or the rock then the judges Know that the line itself should be high scoring
Regarding Brendog's score.. I find it kind of odd how both Cam and Kyle critique his line based off what the judges find valuable and that's nothing against them, they are giving their honest opinion as fellow riders.. Except... the rest of the time Kyle even says they have no clue what they will score or what they judges even want. Hence the whole reason as to why it needs changing.. (Not just Brendog's score but others as well) More so transparency with the riders and fans is desperately needed... Most peoples issue isn't that Bren didn't get a podium.. it's that his score was laughably low.. WAY to low.. I was there watching as well.. The entire crowd couldn't believe it was that low, Brendog fans or not.
Yeah it does seem like these two have something against him. Cam even left a shady comment on someones IG post. Wish it was more like skating where all the riders are stoked for each other.
so many priceless insights for a nerd like me. regarding scoring- make best trick actual prestigious, big prize. couse yeah, tvs's run was just boring in some parts comparing to non stop action from semenuk or godziek. tvs did rightfully win best trick but it should reflect money wise and prestige wise how dope that trick was
Outside looking in as a spectator.. I rather see the tricks and slopestyle run on the "freeride" mtn. Brandon had flow, speed, creativity in line from a spectator standpoint, and the tricks were an added bonus showing bike control and skill set. If it's supposed to be a "raw" "freeride" event, why prep lines, why prep and practice for so long prior, why throw tricks at all, etc etc.. ? To the common spectator, that would look like a downhill event on a "freeride course". Progression in sport can mean multiple things, from various angles and opinions. But from a spectator, Brandon's run looked like progression of the sport and event, since inception, let alone a few yrs ago. I do agree that judging for freeriding event should be prejudged, given a set score, etc etc.. or build 3 set lines, each rider has to ride 2 of the 3 set lines in his/her 2 runs, for a combined overall score. Just my .02..
Don’t agree with the fairclough fanbase dig (yes i see the irony here 😅) but good to see veterens put it out there. I still don’t agree with as low as he got but i see now how he dropped so many points potentially. I think i was a victim of the trialsy nature sucking me in to making it feel more insane. Great episode boys. Yours, a humbled brit.
If Cam and Kyle are still playing guessing games on how things will be judged every year then this is proof it’s time for a real rubric. It’s not all about tricks, it’s not all about amplitude, it’s not all about speed/flow, and it’s not all about line creativity/uniqueness. If there is a rubric for each judged category and how much each category is weighed compared to the rest - then problem solved
I feel like the judges need to walk the lines before so they truly no the risks, watching it on tv then judge you without truly knowing the risks, i think thats what hurt Brens run i think,
Zink and Straight are basically saying what many have been saying for years. The current format needs an overhaul. From the format to the judging... Everything. Rampge needs to take a year off and restructure. Many of us long time fans are no longer interested.
1:08:55 that is a direct reflection of media influence and why fans should never be the judges. The reason bf is getting all the attention is due to his vlog and fan base with daily posts. Even people that are not subscribed to his chanels and such were still following along with his posts. It was a very bias outrage due to personally feeling like they were part of the team theough the vlogs and build series. How they kept playing up jordies line and the nose bleed as well
Putting aside all the politics and BS of a major event which is unavoidable, the main thing is as athletes and spectators, the main thing is, as Kyle Straight mention we as a bike community, WE DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME.
My take on judging: They should have a clearly defined rubric of what things are worth and have them weighted. For ex: Tricks - 2.5x Exposure - 2x Cleanliness - 1x Amplitude - 3x Build - Creativity - 2x Build - Quality - 1x Build - Flow - 0.5x Those weights are released from the beginning. Then the judges score on each element and the final score is the total, multiplied by the weights. That way the riders know exactly what is expected, and how they can optimize for a win, the public can clearly see how the final score was made up and it would help balance the tricks with the other elements. It would also take the subjectiveness out of it some. It's much harder to say if rider a or b were better if they're riding style is very different, but it's much easier to say if rider a had more magnitude, or gnarlier tricks.
For the Brendog mafia out there, Zink and Straight are clear on why he didn’t score high. They respectfully said it was a fun line but not heavy, and that brendogs lack of flow made him look tentative. Two big reasons he lost points.
💯. Love to finally see people speaking truth about all of this. And it's sad to see the bf fan club overshadowing such a great year of rampage. I would say it was one of the most competitive years yet. Judging the top 5 and picking a winner was not enviable. I think judges got it right in the end.
@@tjpighin for real! The progression this year was insane. The judges have a tough job. I don’t appreciate how entitled some people are about the scores and their favorite rider.
@@tjpighin This. I was really excited about this year's competition. After TvS front-flip I jumped on the forums to talk about which one was bigger, this one or Bienvenido's canyon front flip from last year, and all I could find was 'Brendog wuz robbed'. A small vocal minority ruining it for everybody else because their favorite youtuber didn't podium.
@@tyrellcobb4665 it was wild. I tried to have constructive convos with many of them and they would just lash out with no facts. Sad to see this is where mtb is going. Great to still see the legends acting professionally though and props to all of the ones still acting honorably
I think they need a rider ranked line score to use as a handicap where a standard weight is 10, and a 20% harder line is a 12. So rider A has a riskier line and his score is multiplied by 1.2, rider B has an easier line (slopestyle) and his multiple is 1.0. From that basis the subjective element is at least given a risk adjustment decided in advance by the riders who are the best guage of merit.
You’re surprised that Bryan is so nice , you guys must hang out with a bunch of trucks . All your bs talk , you still are a bunch of novices . The bottom line is Bryan is the smoothest that there is . Be smooth have fun when those go away then it’s done . 3:36
27:24 the thing with having the fans engaged is that they are 99 percent participation medal participants. Most fans that were complaining, didn't even seem to know what they were complaining about or didn't have any intelligent arguments for their complaining
going in slow to those drops? Could those guys go quicker?!?!! I mean Bren is a way more capable DH'er than anyone else there. I don't even think these two could ride parts of Bren's run. Not saying Brendan should've won. Then talking about it not being flowy? It wasn't a bike park line like the rest. Goes back to what we think Rampage should be, which is??
Love the scoring idea of a pre-run scoring analysis buy the rider. They already does that in some disciplines, like diving, and the. You can get judge on the execution. Knowing in advance the run that they want to put in doesn’t get any excitement out of the equation and could possibly even get people psych to see it. Line criteria score : 1. Use of the terrain/creativity 2. Number and size of the feature 3. Exposure 4. Technical difficulty(of the trick or feature) Execution 1. Flow 2. Amplitude 3. Precision (mistake)
So nice to see the best riders on Earth giving love and props to other amazing riders. That's why I love the MTB community. No huge egos, just massive skill.
Thanks for the kind words 🫶🏻 can’t wait to get in the studio with ya!
You should have won! Thanks for sending one of the most insane iconic Rampage runs ever!
Good times! Thanks to everyone for watching
Props CZ 🤙🏼
Love this episode. Being a older guy myself in this sport. I love to see these veterans still shredding, and seeing the passion these two still have.
This was such a breath of fresh air! Some good dudes chopping it up and letting their opinions he know! Cheers y’all 🤘🍻
Haven't finished it yet and already love this podcast!!! Thanks for interviewing these "superheroes".
Let’s go!! Got 2 of the best most seasoned riders in the game! Cheers 🍻 from Tennessee fellas
Loved the discussion, much needed!
Cam and Kyle are the perfect guest to clear up some things. The fans are so into brandog because they have spent 10 days watching videos with his dig team. 3-4 a day so they fill more involved in it. Cam and Kyle are so fun to watch skirt around not trying too hurt anyone’s feelings or piss off the industry. What I love is how they have been staples of Rampage they don’t complain about the judges they choose a different strategy.
very well done guys, we needed this perspective years ago, thanks
Both of these guys honestly seem like such great people.
What a super episode ❤ Thank you very much these two are the real spirit and passion what Rampage is about
I don’t blame the judges, I blame the judging criteria. If you compare red bull rampage and slopestyle it is nearly identical. However, to be fair, the criteria hasn’t changed much from the early days of red bull rampage, but the progression in the sport has. What would make judging these events easier and make it better for athletes and for fans is to alter the criteria for this event so that riders are challenged to diversify their skill sets. Have a component that would require riders to build challenging chutes and unique features like Brendan’s and make amplitude and line choice worth more than tricks and be very transparent about it so riders can train towards that throughout the year in preparation. I think this would greatly level the playing field and push the sport in new exciting ways. If all else fails start a new competition for the sport, Monster Mayhem?
I mean, I appreciate the opinion on Brens run. But I think everyone's still missing the point that, yes I don't think he deserves 1st - but he's done something different and unique.. that's why he's so loved, because he provides something new and refreshing. He's riding the terrain, not the trails. sick talk though
And the fact that there’s so much more risk involved on his run. Sure he’s not doing the biggest drops. But he has the biggest consequence to get severely injured/ die on his run. And no one at rampage builds lines with such consequence
I think a couple German tourists rode the top part of his line this week.
@@en5954 Yup, they rode it T 2 b, one was on a 500$ enduro bike.
@@Ivypoison23pretty much the opposite, which is partly the reason why he isn’t scored as high
@@en5954huh? You need to actually look into those riders considering one is sponsored ie Professional.
Just brilliant. Kyle and Cam come across as real genuine good humans and the opinions expressed are factually based, well thought out, and insightful. Thank you for your perspectives and to Gypsy for providing this much needed interview. Cam McCaul on Needles podcast also provides keen insight into this year's Rampage. Finally, I hope the Gypsy scoring matrix is considered as solutions are needed.
What a nice episode with these legends - no hate - enjoyed it a lot!!!
This was a superb listen. What a privilege to hear these two break everything down!
Fairclough @2:01:27. You’re welcome
Cam makes complete bikes now! Go get a ZINK bike!
Great insight! Cheers from México and just would like to add that maybe they should include a rider’s (competitors) vote to that of the judges… like a 50/50 thing between both of them?
Respect to them all, but it’s pretty straight forward why everyone is fixated on Brendan’s run. It’s the general mtb populations idea of a raw freeride line and he still flipped a 50 foot canyon. Was it a winning run, no. But to score so low that he isn’t even invited back is an insult. Judging is and always will be an issue with every sport but this years was seriously tragic across the whole list. It is a shame that other riders aren’t as talked about. But if your getting 50% + on more then one platform for rider of the day votes i think the people have spoken. Doesn’t mean any disrespect to the biggest front flip in history or double flips, single crown tricks. It’s just not what people want to see coming out of rampage at this moment. It all comes in waves. If it all goes back to raw freeride the tables will turn in a few years and people will want tricks. I’d place rampage up there with one of the hardest events to judge. Personally I’ve watched Brens run multiple times, not a single replay of Tom’s. I still respect it and it should have podiumed but that’s just not what I enjoy to watch.
I respect this comment. I don't agree with everything but it's good to see someone with good input finally from the bf side of things. I do think the reason he got so many votes was due to his social media presence. Many people have been saying, they worked so hard that they deserve it. This shows me a lot of the bf fan hype was less about technical and more about being relatable.
It's such a shame that everyone hated on the judges and brandon so much and overshadowed what all the top 5 did.
@@tjpighin to be fair some of the riders he went against on the fan voting side have a bigger following then him to though. But I think it does go deeper than just the run itself and that side of it can’t be judged. I definitely have a different top 3 in my head and Brendog wasn’t there, that 4-8 position is more realistic but also everyone else in those spots is hard to move up or down without somebody else getting robbed. His line to me was the only one that stood out from the rest. Big or small it was different and more freeride. I will add that it’s impressive what they are flipping down, but watching a backflip multiple times in the same run isn’t that appealing. It’s gnarly but it gets repetitive if that makes sense.
@TylerRodger yaaaa, I totally get that. It's one of the easier tricks to do off of big features. Same with bf doing his 2 versions of a flip. That's why I think Brandon deserved the 1st. He has always been innovative with everything he does, and this year was no exception. The double drop skipper and the speed and the technicality. He is just soooooo beyond what the normal fan even understands and he makes it look so easy that people just don't even know what happened or how insanely hard and dangerous it truely is.
And ya, I didn't mean followers when I said the social media presence. He was the vlog everyone was watching and was on all platforms I saw. Same as last years event, I pretty much only saw his stuff. I actually made a comment to a buddy from Utah before the event that you sure don't see any footage from or about Brandon or tom or sorge. All you saw the whole time was bf's build and the t Mac canyon, then a few sends off the sender. I made the comment that it seems alllll the media revolves around bf and his dig crew. That's why I don't think they can do judging any other way. No fans judging because, as we saw, the fans can get out of hand really quickly. It's just like anything in our lives, if we continue to see someone over and over and over, then that is all you think about.
@TylerRodger and ya, to be honest, watching in real time, I was kinda like, hmmmm, that's not what I would have scored this person or that. Then, because of all the drama and bf/his diggers acting up and all the things, I really started to look at each run like I was judging. I really started looking at all the close ups of the ground and such. Then I looked at the runs from 5 and 6 years ago, and I'm like, ok, I fully agree with judges now.
@@tjpighin I also think it’s to the point where they could have a best trick event separate to the main contest that is worth more then just a trophy. T-Mac vs Tom’s runs is a good case for that. Run for run imo T-Mac checked every box with speed, flow, and big features top to bottom but how can you not reward Tom with at least a podium for that level of commitment. Maybe more transparency with what the judges want to see before the event starts would help that to. Obviously everyone wants to see it all but that’s a big ask of the riders. Insert godziek who was closest to filling that void but ultimately technical tricks took it. It’s all freeride at the end of the day everyone just sees it different.
when zink of all people calls toms front flip the biggest and gnarliest trick and rampage history… that’s saying something.
Loving the content, banger after banger! 👊
Rad podcast bro!
Cam brought up the key issue, THIS YEAR was diverse. Next year won’t because of the how bad Brendan and others who weren’t going slopestyle got screwed.
Listening all the way through everything that was said shows why slopestyle is the ONLY thing now:
- Any setup or slowdown means deduction aka features must flow into each other aka the entire purpose of slopestyle.
- Unique independent lines are punished. Leaving anything raw because you’re digging your own line is to be punished. This will just already promote shared lines that are super manicured due to multiple digging teams working on the same line.
- Tricks and trickable features are the key. Once again moving away from anything not slopestyle.
The fundamental question most people are asking is Rampage just a desert slopestyle event now? If so, it is no longer Rampage.
@@nahbrah12345 absolutely nailed it.
@nahbrah12345 actually I just watched a vid of Tyler McCaul run that has better and closer camera position throughout the course and it was more technical than what we have seen and that made me convinced why Semenuk and Tyler was on the podium (They shared some of the technical lines).
That judging idea is genius
Disagree. If you already decide the winner potentially before the start, most riders simply won't even run because why risk it? If you run is only worth 10-15 points less, you will never make that up, so you leave right there. Will be even more boring than it already is.
So much respect tom!!
The mtb podcast we’ve all been waiting for! Thank you guys
RODEO style judging! Line(Bull) is 50% of the score and Rider is 50% of the score.
love to hear about other pro's thoughts. amazing insights from our mtb heroes. hope u get well soon Cam. wud love to also see this sugested max possible points judging and better descriptions of all these technical nuances and better closeup slomos of each rider breakdowns
this was rad!
If Tom won this event we would see people die in future events - as they said - Semenuks run was Art and I enjoy watching the replay !
Fairclough's 4th place run he rode soo much better. He was faster and rowdier. More fun to watch. He was so careful this year
Why is entry speed a reason on Brendan's mark down? He stomped every line with perfection, no one else has ridden it and knows what speed is needed to drop in to it. If someone went super slow off a massive drop but stomped it would it be marked down? No because they went the appropriate speed to lace the feature. Fkn dumb thing to say.
Great podcast….i think Zink and strait come across great and listening to them discuss it makes sense from their viewpoint….as og’s and locals I respect it’s there baby and they’ve progressed it want it to progress in the way they see fit.
Being a Brit, a dh fan and a Brendog fan I have a different take on what I thought rampage was and clearly I’m wrong as they don’t rate brendogs line….and I think there’s a real gap for a new event. The combed take offs and landings with tricks are undoubtedly awesome but aren’t really what I thought it was all about or what I tuned in for. I want to see riders ride down raw. Build their own line and ride down steep chutes and link parts of the mountain by crossing canyons. For me this current version of rampage is guys mainly from a slopestyle background sharing lots of pre made lines from rampages before and jump down it from take off to landing-take off to landing. It’s also very hard to distinguish between the lines as it all looks the same.
Think lines like gee Athertons’s knife edge, where he nearly dies after falling off a pretty much unrideable line ridge line, the dolomites one or his recent trip to Kazakhstan where the terrain looks similar to rampage, find lines down things that don’t look rideable and maybe that might make people grasp what a lot of people thought rampage was and what they want it to be. Maybe a new venue would be needed for a new event as there’s too many ramps on those ones in Utah now.
Also people need to watch the full 50 minute drive time pod and see what brendog actually said in context of a long conversation rather than be offended by one sentence that’s been clipped. I don’t think he would have wanted fellow riders past and present to feel disrespected from what he said.
I mean Brandons run was sick but there is 7 step ups. Two trick jumps and 3 small drops. The coolest was the bigger Lilly pad tail whip and that was it really
Sick!
chutes have just always been shit on in rampage judging.
That's because they are one of the easier features to ride. A chute can only get so hard and gnarly before it either becomes a drop or it is impossible. This is why rampage has naturally progressed to where it is today. It's good to have a guy that wants to do something like that, but he better be charging the heck out of it and on the absolute raged edge
@@tjpighin yea it is super obvious too. zink had the biggest robbery in 2015. gnarliest line by far, huge 360, monster stepdown flip. but he had a chute up top. shit on. its wild that riders even look for that now, because it never scores high.
@@N_Parrish totally, and the riders that are trying to win have adapted. Like these guys have said, they are not going to sacrifice some gnarly drop for a chute because it's not going to score well. So that score is on the rider that chose the line that knowingly does not score as high, not the judges scoring it. Just like if a rider meanders down the mountain vs a rider that is charging down slashing turns and trying to keep the intensity up. Obviously that is a choice that each rider made and one should be rewarded over the other. It's not about if the judges are being bias, it's about calling it what it is. Calling a spade a spade.
I hope this year will help change how the judge’s view this event. It’s not just about tricks, it’s about the line choice flow and yeah sure then tricks.
Love the scoring idea of a pre-run scoring analysis buy the rider. They already does that in some disciplines, like diving, and the. You can get judge on the execution.
Knowing in advance the run that they want to put in doesn’t get any excitement out of the equation and could possibly even get people psych to see it.
Line criteria score :
1. Use of the terrain/creativity
2. Number and size of the feature
3. Exposure
4. Technical difficulty(of the trick or feature)
Execution
1. Flow
2. Amplitude
3. Precision (mistake)
I saw Kyle strait a few weeks before at maverick
Maybe they could have something like an open practice day to help the judging. Where all the riders have the opportunity to ride each others lines, that way if say hardly anyone is willing to hit certain features than it should score higher. It would remove any reason to complain about scores for 'crazy lines' like if almost everyone sends Brendan's line then people cant say he should have scored higher, and things like Toms frontflip, no one else was going to attempt it so it should have scored him a higher total. If it happens that no one wants to hit Jordies drop or the rock then the judges Know that the line itself should be high scoring
RESPECT all the riders they all must be under a lot of pressure
Regarding Brendog's score.. I find it kind of odd how both Cam and Kyle critique his line based off what the judges find valuable and that's nothing against them, they are giving their honest opinion as fellow riders.. Except... the rest of the time Kyle even says they have no clue what they will score or what they judges even want. Hence the whole reason as to why it needs changing.. (Not just Brendog's score but others as well) More so transparency with the riders and fans is desperately needed... Most peoples issue isn't that Bren didn't get a podium.. it's that his score was laughably low.. WAY to low.. I was there watching as well.. The entire crowd couldn't believe it was that low, Brendog fans or not.
Yeah it does seem like these two have something against him. Cam even left a shady comment on someones IG post. Wish it was more like skating where all the riders are stoked for each other.
so many priceless insights for a nerd like me. regarding scoring- make best trick actual prestigious, big prize. couse yeah, tvs's run was just boring in some parts comparing to non stop action from semenuk or godziek. tvs did rightfully win best trick but it should reflect money wise and prestige wise how dope that trick was
Outside looking in as a spectator.. I rather see the tricks and slopestyle run on the "freeride" mtn. Brandon had flow, speed, creativity in line from a spectator standpoint, and the tricks were an added bonus showing bike control and skill set. If it's supposed to be a "raw" "freeride" event, why prep lines, why prep and practice for so long prior, why throw tricks at all, etc etc.. ? To the common spectator, that would look like a downhill event on a "freeride course". Progression in sport can mean multiple things, from various angles and opinions. But from a spectator, Brandon's run looked like progression of the sport and event, since inception, let alone a few yrs ago. I do agree that judging for freeriding event should be prejudged, given a set score, etc etc.. or build 3 set lines, each rider has to ride 2 of the 3 set lines in his/her 2 runs, for a combined overall score. Just my .02..
IF WAS A LOT MORE MONEY
then riders like KYLE and ZINK in the future can be digger / mentors but paid
not sure how it all works must be a team budget
I was wondering where they were gonna bullshit. Good grab getting them
Switch the review video so the run is larger than the podcast
All said and done, this interview was effing awesome!❤❤❤❤❤ great job jayce
Don’t agree with the fairclough fanbase dig (yes i see the irony here 😅) but good to see veterens put it out there. I still don’t agree with as low as he got but i see now how he dropped so many points potentially. I think i was a victim of the trialsy nature sucking me in to making it feel more insane. Great episode boys.
Yours,
a humbled brit.
At least bredog crew should have won the trail building award
Just because you could watch what they built on RUclips doesn't mean other crews didn't work just as hard if not much harder.
Great discussion- would love to see more like this
If Cam and Kyle are still playing guessing games on how things will be judged every year then this is proof it’s time for a real rubric.
It’s not all about tricks, it’s not all about amplitude, it’s not all about speed/flow, and it’s not all about line creativity/uniqueness.
If there is a rubric for each judged category and how much each category is weighed compared to the rest - then problem solved
Brendog fan, I’m not out here advocating for a podium I just don’t think it was an 11th. I feel 6-7th spot, I’m no judge though.
I feel like the judges need to walk the lines before so they truly no the risks, watching it on tv then judge you without truly knowing the risks, i think thats what hurt Brens run i think,
Cam deffs got something against Brendan haha. Wish they were more like skaters and were all the competitors are stoked for each other.
Skating is one of the most toxic cultures around lol
@@valleyryde7418 Lol watch any skating comp you dork
@@valleyryde7418 Quite literally, right behind surfing.
We got to ignore all facts the conspiracy is much better. Loved this interview
Zink and Straight are basically saying what many have been saying for years. The current format needs an overhaul. From the format to the judging... Everything. Rampge needs to take a year off and restructure. Many of us long time fans are no longer interested.
Well, no matter what I’m gonna watch it 😂 judges aren’t going to ruin it for me
1:08:55 that is a direct reflection of media influence and why fans should never be the judges. The reason bf is getting all the attention is due to his vlog and fan base with daily posts. Even people that are not subscribed to his chanels and such were still following along with his posts. It was a very bias outrage due to personally feeling like they were part of the team theough the vlogs and build series. How they kept playing up jordies line and the nose bleed as well
Putting aside all the politics and BS of a major event which is unavoidable, the main thing is as athletes and spectators, the main thing is, as Kyle Straight mention we as a bike community, WE DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME.
Jui jitsu!!!!! Rear naked choke!!
My take on judging:
They should have a clearly defined rubric of what things are worth and have them weighted.
For ex:
Tricks - 2.5x
Exposure - 2x
Cleanliness - 1x
Amplitude - 3x
Build - Creativity - 2x
Build - Quality - 1x
Build - Flow - 0.5x
Those weights are released from the beginning.
Then the judges score on each element and the final score is the total, multiplied by the weights.
That way the riders know exactly what is expected, and how they can optimize for a win, the public can clearly see how the final score was made up and it would help balance the tricks with the other elements.
It would also take the subjectiveness out of it some. It's much harder to say if rider a or b were better if they're riding style is very different, but it's much easier to say if rider a had more magnitude, or gnarlier tricks.
Wish you wouldn’t have cut off Kyle so much. 1:38:17
Leyendas
For the Brendog mafia out there, Zink and Straight are clear on why he didn’t score high. They respectfully said it was a fun line but not heavy, and that brendogs lack of flow made him look tentative. Two big reasons he lost points.
💯. Love to finally see people speaking truth about all of this. And it's sad to see the bf fan club overshadowing such a great year of rampage. I would say it was one of the most competitive years yet. Judging the top 5 and picking a winner was not enviable. I think judges got it right in the end.
@@tjpighin for real! The progression this year was insane. The judges have a tough job. I don’t appreciate how entitled some people are about the scores and their favorite rider.
@@en5954 💯
@@tjpighin This. I was really excited about this year's competition. After TvS front-flip I jumped on the forums to talk about which one was bigger, this one or Bienvenido's canyon front flip from last year, and all I could find was 'Brendog wuz robbed'. A small vocal minority ruining it for everybody else because their favorite youtuber didn't podium.
@@tyrellcobb4665 it was wild. I tried to have constructive convos with many of them and they would just lash out with no facts. Sad to see this is where mtb is going. Great to still see the legends acting professionally though and props to all of the ones still acting honorably
I think they need a rider ranked line score to use as a handicap where a standard weight is 10, and a 20% harder line is a 12. So rider A has a riskier line and his score is multiplied by 1.2, rider B has an easier line (slopestyle) and his multiple is 1.0. From that basis the subjective element is at least given a risk adjustment decided in advance by the riders who are the best guage of merit.
Safe to say these guys want this to become yet another slopestyle event :/
Well im convinced, rampage is no longer for me. These guys definitely cleared it up. Purely a trick based event.
Some big fucking coconuts on this session...
You’re surprised that Bryan is so nice , you guys must hang out with a bunch of trucks . All your bs talk , you still are a bunch of novices . The bottom line is Bryan is the smoothest that there is . Be smooth have fun when those go away then it’s done . 3:36
It’s like the judges wanted it to be a flippy mctwisty contest this year.
27:24 the thing with having the fans engaged is that they are 99 percent participation medal participants. Most fans that were complaining, didn't even seem to know what they were complaining about or didn't have any intelligent arguments for their complaining
going in slow to those drops? Could those guys go quicker?!?!! I mean Bren is a way more capable DH'er than anyone else there. I don't even think these two could ride parts of Bren's run. Not saying Brendan should've won.
Then talking about it not being flowy? It wasn't a bike park line like the rest. Goes back to what we think Rampage should be, which is??
This was such a breath of fresh air! Some good dudes chopping it up and letting their opinions he know! Cheers y’all 🤘🍻
Love the scoring idea of a pre-run scoring analysis buy the rider. They already does that in some disciplines, like diving, and the. You can get judge on the execution.
Knowing in advance the run that they want to put in doesn’t get any excitement out of the equation and could possibly even get people psych to see it.
Line criteria score :
1. Use of the terrain/creativity
2. Number and size of the feature
3. Exposure
4. Technical difficulty(of the trick or feature)
Execution
1. Flow
2. Amplitude
3. Precision (mistake)