The TEN WORST cards from Heroes of StarCraft! Grunty needs a BUFF!
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Today we take a data driven look at what the worst performing cards are so far from the Heroes of StarCraft mini set.
All stats taken from www.hsreplay.net
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Imagine drawn winrate of Grunty is better than your class cards
Terrible way of interpreting these stats though. Paladin starship is just a terrible deck, so obviously those specific class cards perform poorly.
@@taserrrIf the deck isnt good, neither is the card. This mini set by design is very self-centered and you need the whole package for a card to be good. If the package isn't good, neither is one part of it
Paladin is paying the debt for Handbuff Paladin being Tier 1 for two years straight. It has been the longest running Tier 1 deck in the history of Hearthstone, no other deck has went through so many different metas and remained relevant. And now Paladin is paying the price for it with not having even a viable Tier 2 deck.
To be fair, Paladin just needs some decent 2-drop and boardwide buff to be decently strong. The Marines are very good for going very wide.
It’s so annoying that TWO cards this expansion have the ability to destroy a card in someone’s hand. I complained on the Hearthstone discord but was told “skill issue”. 🙄
A lot of time I've seen immortal generated by that priest 10/10 minion, I guess that contributed a lot to the played stats.
I don't think it counts. Would be a lot more winrate and all that.
@@SpaceWitch144 I doubt it. Protoss Priest's win rate declines for each Immortal they generate. They'd rather get literally any other Protoss minion.
Warp Gate being too expensive is holding the entire subfaction back. It would also help if there was a way to tutor locations so you’re not just gambling on draws of discover effects
I feel like Warp Gate is fine when you have a lot of Protoss minions, or the discounted mana is actually relevant for a swing turn. It feels pretty good in Protoss Priest, and it’s just okay in Protoss Rogue.
A lot of people get baited into including it into their decks because “hurr durr, I put all 15 Protoss cards into my deck”.
In Protoss mage, Void Ray and Warp Gate were the first 4 cards I cut because I quickly realized that they’re almost never relevant. They also cluttered my hand and draw most of the time.
Protoss Druid is weird, I feel like they either wanted a ramp druid, mech druid, or even a location druid package to go with it. But all 3 of those aren’t supported enough in standard. And there’s just better stuff to play in Wild.
Warp Gate feels like it just had diminishing returns tbh
The last thing this game needs is more ways to tutor cards
Adding a location tutor could have unforseen consequences
The issue is that Warp Gate is very niche. It only discounts minions... For the race that has the least minions...
Like, only Priest really gets much use out of it, because they will have lots of high cost minions to get discounts on... But even then, Protoss Priest just makes copies of their 2/2 discounter and makes everything cheap anyway.
If it discounted any Protoss card, then it'd be useful in all Protoss decks to at the very least, get the Hero out, if not to help "Prep" out the card draw spell (Though even then its cost is kind of meh for tempo... Might just end up boosting HP Druid's swing turn by cheating out Artanis and then doing their HP refreshes)
Overall the card just doesn't make much sense in the faction. Another neutral minion (That could be discounted by all the discount effects) or another spell for Mage to use would fit better.
for lore accuracy, lurker must have stealth, like dark templar and ghost
perma stealth would be too much, maybe stealth for one turn would be better
then why doesn't zergling have rush by default (Zelot gets charge...), but then all the effects that would give them rush would need to be swapped to charge, but the meme is "zerg rush" own it and balance around it.
@@marleyhorne7580 stealth breaks when a minion deals damage. So perma stealth would be fine
I was trying to make a paladin grunty/ murlock deck last night just for fun. I was surprised at how few murlocks are in standard rotation right now. It's basically impossible to make a useful murlock deck right now :/
Yeah me too. I have a sentimental soft spot for murlocs since Anyfin paladin back in the day. Looking through the pool, the fucking mutating amalgam 3/8 is the strongest “murloc” around besides the shaman 1 drop with gigantify. I am not sure why they printed Grunty right now. He really doesn’t fit the StarCraft theme and it’s just not good. Is it for wild with a better pool of murlocs? I don’t think it’s good enough there either?
I wanted grunty and murlocs to be good but I was even getting stomped on casual ladder by weird home brews.
Wait for rotation. I'm sure they just futureproofed Grunty with the high cost.
I don't know, when I faced Ultra-Capacitor, I was like "This is so broken!" (it was a 7/7...) and was surprised to find that there aren't any good decks with it. 😄
"We'll see if zerg DH evolves over time." I see your pun Zeddy.
They should let Grunty summon two 11 instead, and give them deathrattle: deal some damage to enemies, and make Grunty 77 for balancing
Would be more balanced if the damage to the enemies was random
Nah, they should have made so "The first time they summoned - minions have immunity this turn", boom, all of a sudden decent board clear and all stats in check.
Clear board - establish your own, simple as that
@ Lol you did not understand the assignment
Yes the whole point is so significantly enhance him that people actually want to play him not old seller him in to the ground like wjat you suggested.
@ It's a reference to Dr. Boom you idiot
The thing with Blink, Mutalisk or Lurker though is that they are absolutely stellar when created by other cards in their respective decks (Protoss Mage or Zerg DK)
Immortal is so bad it needs to have Charge and Elusive to see potential play. I have a feeling it won't even make the cut with that. Maybe also have it gain Reborn with the 4 extra mana to see possible experimentation. I can see it getting a buff in the same patch Dungar gets nerfed. He's paying the tax for Dungar. You can't give Druid good big minions when Dungar is around.
honestly if warp gate was a minion it would probably be really good
Grunty should just fill the board, at least then it would be another card that floods the board with a certain tribe with potential upside
This is a good idea, but I don’t think Blizzard would print a card that requires a player to make 6 clicks (for each murloc’s attack). Would have to be switched to random.
Now do a video like this to the dark beyond main set... whoops, 90% of the cards are giga trash!!!
I really like this mini set but I think it also should have brought more support to the already existing starship class's, draenei crewmate packages for example.
It's a shame that a nice set like dark beyond has so few good decks, most legendaries are useless.
And it wont get any better after rotation because I bet the next set will have way better mechanics than the dark beyond ones, the overall powerlevel of the cards will rise for sure.
After this mini set my opinion is that the dark beyond main set was a completly waste of gold/money for me, a bunch of cool useless cards.
They should have made an entire starcraft set imo.
The Zerg card Viper makes no sense - does it make sense that a board of frozen minions can attack? Big shocker...no. So, negates the Bob effect and a strong board that you are trying to manage with him. Some buffs needed but Viper should use the status of the minion on the board not override frozen.
it does make sense that frozen minions can attack with viper, frozen is saying that they can’t attack normally, not that effects can’t make them attack, it’s always worked that way with abilities that make minions attack, like hysterias and whatnot
Its how it always worked, but I think viper shouldn't give the other minions reborn
1) Blink surprises me becasue it's kinda good.
2) Warp gate does not surprise me, but the card is no bad per se.
3) Grunty is trash.
4) Lurker is good to discover with a board but not good to hard run.
5) Ultra capacitor is ok, but Terran paladin is not the best Terran deck, deppends too much on the board.
6) Mutalisk would be good if it just had rush now you need to depend on other cards giving it rush and that sucks.
7) Oh I hate creep tumor, hate DH in this meta, so bad, it's just a really bad crusader's aura. If only it would give health to your zergs than it would be better. The board can't stick.
8) Hellion is ok but hellbat is great, that card is the mvp of that deck. It is really good...if the board sticks.
9) Salvage the bunker is fine but again the whole idea of terran paladin is to have a board that sticks. If not you lose.
10) Yes Immortal is ass. Only Priest can play it if the stars are right and once in a blue moon.
Priests don't even want to play Immortal. It's literally the worst thing they can roll from the mothership
Crazy how Zeddy is only 23 but the beard makes him look like 40
NO WAY Zeddy is only slightly older than me. 😳
You gotta try the hell bat with gorgonzormu cheese it is such gratifying board removal.
I think you all forget how strong Tsunami was. Why buff Grunty? You really want a better tsunami? Man...some cards just need to be left alone. Everything does not need a buff. Nerfs are usually more impactful. Summoning 3 bodies or more is oppression.
People also completely forget that the Murloc pool is bad RIGHT NOW. This set will roll into the next rotation and who knows what kinds of Murlocs we'll have in that.
I mean... "Drawn" win rate has nothing at all to do with "PLAYED" win rate... plenty of Murloc decks can go ham and kill their opponent having "drawn" Grunty and he simply sits dead in your hand the whole time.
Ironically, my excavate sc2 paladin has the highest win rate of my StarCraft decks.
It means I can play shite cards really well... Apparently.
Of course I'm still bronze and the like so I'll update this once I get to platinum (if I make it there.)
Oh yeah, the immortal is terrible though it rules in arena tbh.
If you can have fun with crappy decks in bronze/silver like I do, then good for you! 👍 High five, low rank bro!
I’ve had alot of success with starship Archon rogue. You build starships while waiting for your archons to be cheap enough. Run Tess to get more starships from other class and ceaseless.
Fairly certain hsreplay stats only take into account cards that started in the deck.
So? If a card is only good when randomly generated, then it's not a good card to include i to your deck.
The Paladin-card should give one Marine for one mana.
I actually think the card itself is pretty decent and curves acceptably into Hellbat and the other 4 mana buff spells Paladin has atm. Pala just really needs a good "go wide" 2-drop besides Mining Casualties.
Lurker is the definition of a "win more" card
Lurker is supposed to be used with the location I think. Get a bunch of 1/1s with rush and then machinegun 2x6 damage
A flavorfull buff for creep tumor: When you summon a Brood queen, draw this card from your deck. you can ballance it a bit by removing a turn or the attackbuff.
Too much text, unfortunately.
Maybe making it 1 or 2 mana cheaper but dormant for 1 turn could also work. Fits with the creep spreading first.
In my opinion the beard is one of your main features.
He's sick of dyeing it.
Proud to be part of the Grunty believers.
They taking out cookie is so stupid like bro most murlocs dont cost more than 3 with only like 2 highrolls that arent even that high, god let us have that
But rotation is coming very soon and there have been pretty chunky murlocs in the past that might rotate in (even just 4/x murlocs would be very strong Grunty hits)
Funnily enough Terran and Zerg dominate the meta in actual Starcraft 2 as well! It's been like 3 years since a Protoss player has won any premiere tournaments.
Does the game get any balance updates or updates of any kind even?
@@rory9975 Sort of. There isn't a balance team at Blizzard anymore to work on the game, but there is a "community council" of pros and others from the scene who come up with balance ideas that Blizzard will still implement.
Lurker feels good when it comes from a brood mother. I feel like it is an awkward draw though.
Immortal fix: just replace the 4 mana extra stats with reborn
I worry about going crazy with buffs, decks like Death Knight are going to be useless post rotation
Thanks for the update
If they want to buff Protoss, they should probably redesign their Neutral minion to be bigger and have the effect scale off of by how much it is discounted instead of the strict 0 requirement. It's really fringe and feels either bad or too hard to discount to 0 with the 3 damage spell only reducing it by 1 and Warp Gate discount being wasted if you already have it at 2 or 1 mana.
My idea would be something like a 4 or 5 mana version, potentially bump the stats like at least +1 health, maybe give it Lifesteal and make the effect give +1/+1 per mana it's discounted by.
I'm surprised by the DH cards being on this list, they've felt really good and fun to play. Although I've only played a few games of it and lost to Boomboss with my DH once by having my draw TNT'd and running out of Steam which made me Alt F4 because I hate that card no matter how badly it might perform.
Protoss would be helped a lot if their Location discounted a protoss CARD and not specifically a minion. That way it can help cheat out Mage's spells or the Hero.
DH's cards are all win more. You need a board that can attack to do anything. Meanwhile, they don't have the massive stats that DK does from Infestor proc spam to make a board. While Hunter just builds a board then nukes the opponent with Hydralisk/Ravage without needing to attack.
no more lifesteal rush divine shields minions please XD
@@tarille1043 I got caught off-guard by Warp Gate only discounting minions... and then when I got used to _that,_ I thought my randomly-generated Construct Pylons also only worked on minions, so I tried to chain two of them together. Conceded right after. 😅
Would Beardless Zeddy be a nerf or a buff?
i would love to see terran paladin and the big mechs from druid and other classes be meta relevant but the meta is looking very nice right now even if you can be dead in turn 5 or 6 at least the new cards looks really good and the faction thing is exiting
I hate when they tell us nerfs are coming but won't tell us what. I want to craft stuff but I just gotta wait until they decide to tell us the balance changes??
Immortal as a late game card effectively blocks 2 1 mana zerg cards in the late game against zerg deathknight
biggest fail is that grunty cant attack face with the murlocs. I like having the immortal from the mothership, but i guess by itself its not getting picked especially as protoss druid only goes for hero power stuff now
That's literally the biggest WIN of Grunty... we are ALL sick and fucking tired of horrendously OP Legendary Neutrals that are auto-include in every single deck, regardless of archtype, simply because they're so insanely, grossly OP that you have to run them or you're not competitive.
Making Grunty read "8 Mana - who cares about its stats, do 8-24 damage right to the opponents face because ha ha, fuck you" would be yet another nail in Hearthstone's coffin.
Itd be cool if grunty instead shoots the murlocs combined attack randomly split between all enemy minions
I feel sad for my boy Illidan
Wait Immortal is a card ? I fully forgot about it existing.
Shaving one's beard is downright dishonorable, but it's also hilarious. Hard to choose.
Shout out to Marckmkz! Just watched his Mutalisk video 😂
Also i think the meca thor the 8 cost minion is a very bad win condition becose The series of steps to make it a sufficient win condition are too many. First we should have launched many ships, at least 6 to do 30 damage. That is already a problem.
Number 2 allows you to select where each missile goes, it goes to a random enemy, making the battle cry more useless and requiring you to forcefully clear the field.
Third, necessarily to have launched 5-6 ships you should have wasted 30 mana, which is why it is slow even for warriors
Four unfortunately it is a card that if you You draw at the begining of the game is a dead card 8 cost for a win con that dosent make you the game for me itnneed a rework fast
You know what? There are too so many dead cards from latest expansions that also should get some buffs to make some archetypes playable. I dont think they should only buffing new expansion cards. Look at pirate rogue, they are so many dead pirates cards and this is unplayable archetype with lot of cards that are just trash in standard.
Firebat is sick it just costs too much.
I honestly didn’t know any of these cards are in the game.
creating a lurker is good though
Priest protoss isnt the best deck, but its definitely my fav deck and you can win if you can stabilize
Does this count being played as larva?
Grunty needs to be playable
I don't play standart but maybe tagging zergs with "beast" would not be too crazy? Irrational insects are beasts in hearthstone, and the primal zergs are pretty much alien beasts already...and it would help hunter zerg package wich is not particularly awesome...maybe every zerg except brood queen?
Uh... Zerg is ALREADY the most powerful faction/archtype of this set and you want to make them MORE powerful by allowing them access to the whole package of effects that chain off of Beast abilities?
Yeah, no... let's NOT give an already OP build even more power creep...
What they need to is rein in the absurdity that is DK DR/Reborn Zerg - not buff up the other Zerg builds to match that level of OP.
This is always the problem with Hearthstone... people keep wanting to BUFF the underperforming builds to bring them UP to the OP level of the top builds, rather than NERF the OP builds back down to where everything is competitive.
That is how you get the insane amount of power creep that Hearthstone is literally drowning in right now...
How tf arent warlocks cards here?
I had a blast with terrain paladin ngl
My Lurgers have been doing massacre !
i hate running into zerg dk and getting +7+7 to their zerg, basically play jade at that point....
broo the immortal is so bad it single handedly makes priest bad cuz u can randomly get it
i sooooooo agree...WHERE'S THE DRAGOON??!?!?!?!?!?!?
SO? Most players picked Zerg for the event?
Grunty is MVP, if u want to generate corpses that is
playing since beta, i must say this, this is the first expansion my decks -which were doint pretty fine- get absolutely stomped no matter what i play. this starcraft bullshit is the biggest powercreep ever and i think this is the final nail in coffin. no fun
I guess shamans new mark and turret synergy is too great after all.
lurker has been insane when its generated while playing zerg dk
So ‘some’ Protos decks are tier 1 but most of their cards and other decks of theirs are no good - seems balanced to me lol
honestly lurker is op , well when I get it in dk , it goes brrrr
impressed the Nexus doesnt hold the worst winrate
Its a 4 mana that nets 2 extra total mana over 3 turns (much worse druid pilon that does the same on the spot) and then 5 extra mana over 5 turns???
Thats unplayable sigh
Most murlocks are weenies. So Grunty is just a fun card. Good in Arena at most, but that's it.
What about the Draenei they we're 0 at the moment 😢 i am sad Because the idea of the Dranei in Warriors is really interesting but unfortunately they lack many tools such as steal/consistency between them, then also in addition to the conditions of Warriors to win I really feel that the Draenei need help i opened a Golden Legendary and is the dranei one so I am very sad becouse is not meta Even not easy to use his Big cost and that it has to die to be useful well it dosent convence me plz help 😊
Don't buff any cards. You know the teams track record with that
The best thing about this miniset is that Paladin sucks. ❤ Considering how much love the devs have shown the class they will probably buff it to be tier one, yet again, for another two, three years. But for now, I'm happy. 🎉🎉🎉
Weirdest thing is that Terran Pal on hs.rep has highest games played and almost 60%wr. Like what? Deck sucks, Paly sucks
Grunty lol I played him so many times on turn 8, failed to clear board and lost… 5 Star card
Justice for Grunty!
Who is in charge of hearthstone because this mini set changed the game to be exclusive to itself and doesn't synergize with past sets. Like do the devs over there even play hearthstone or do quality assurance on their product? Their recent releases seem half assed and not balanced. Unless it's just one guy that runs hearthstone then I can give him a pass.
Protoss sucks u cant draw colossus or when u draw it a zerg will just force summon it and destroy it
We will get to nowhere by keep buffing cards. We need a mass nerf to slow the game down. Otherwise, every card will feel weak.
Dominating the meta? What? I see so many fucking Protoss druids and plenty of mages too. The mage deck is so dumb, you just spam removal spells, never play a damn thing except a couple of 3/4 charges, then eventually drop two colossus and swipe the entire board and face for 50 fucking damage from hand. I’m glad that doesn’t have a great win rate, it’s an exceptionally awful play pattern that is extremely boring to play against.
The Protoss lists that do exist just abuse the Hero Power on Artanis and the charge minions, while the Mage deck is just a textbook example of a control deck
Grunty should pull from wild, and summon 6 murlocs, and make him a 5/5 at 7 mana. He shall finally see play!!!
if he pulls from wild, it would make him worse no? i dont think we need to nerf the card tbh
Bruh goofy take, there are so many better murlocs in wild the ones in standard ass@dendankegamer
@@terrencethompson5933 thats not how average works but ok
Maybe just at this point make him 1 mana 100\100?
All the DH cards they got are just so bad
I find it amusing that all the board based strategy cards are "The worst cards of the miniset" when everyone was saying how board based the mini-set made the game...
Just let Grunty go face and wild will get funny murloc OTK card : D
give immortal rush at least
Grunty should be 7 or even 6.
Don't shave the beard!
One of the things I keep thinking around locations like warp gate.... it feels like they are missing a way to reopen them faster like the Perils in Paradise locations. But giving that to the zerg and terran locations.... ouch.
Grunty doesnt need a buff hes thematic and should not be made into another zilliax. I am sure the murloc pool will grow in time, leave the cards alone we finally have a good meta for standard
Made. Im so done with this meta. So stupid. Done with tnis stupid game. Why did they have to release something so stupid as zergs.
33° like and comment until I get the giveaway
best buff to grundy 1 more mana and atack face if there is no more minions
i just remember the warlock murlocs that make other murlocs cost heald insted of mana so i don t think this buff is good. Now i think is beter if grunty cost 6 or 7 if end up cost 6 then should summon 1 less minion
Even more unplayable
Curses you Zeddy. Y not me. Were my comments not worthy enough?! Now I have to waste my money because of you
Damn, no views in 27 seconds. Zeddy fell off
100 in 4minutes is a fall off tho hearthstone dead
@@MF_Loomy people been saying that since Witchwood. Y'all are boring.
@@Frank_144 no hearthstone is boring. And idek what witch wood is mate
@@adupthetotal782 a day passed and no one like these comment. The joke and 'tHiS gAmE iS dYinG' haters are fell off.
Grunty is just a cheaper dungar. Very unhealthy card design imo. Why would we want it buffed?
You good? You have the option control what dungar pulls. Grunty just summons random garbage. Grunty NEEDS a buff
@monstermasterv2 The best case scenario is that Grunty is a neutral Razzle Dazzler.
We don't need more "1 card that floods the board with minions" cards in the game.
@@tarille1043 did you even take a look at what utter GARBAGE Grunty can pull from?
Dungar summons minions like an 8/8 elemental that is extremely tricky to remove, an 8/8 Beast with elusive taunt with spellburst gain 8 armour+attack, a 6/6 Taunt that summons said Elemental and Beast, a titan that summons taunts each time it uses an ability, a titan that mind controls/board wipes, Unkilliax. The taunt minions he summons are brought back with Hydration station.
Grunty summons 4 dudes which die and a highroll being a 6/6 that does nothing or a 4/7 that silences+kills reborns or a murloc with poisonous. On average if your opponent has a board with minions that have 3 attack or more, the murlocs you summon are all dead after firing. There's no real murloc support in any class right now. I have a Murloc focused shaman deck that doesn't can't even run grunty because the match is basically either won or lost by the time you reach the mana to play him (and even then you could be overloaded at turn 8)
O yeah summon 4 minions usually with combined stats of 4 or 5 is the same as summoning 15/15 unkilliax and titan for 1 more mana. Have you ever played hearthstone in this miniset?