What's Wrong with WSM Cartridges - Season 2: Episode 15
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2022
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! In this episode, I answer listener questions about Weatherby Cartridges, Scope Durability, 325 WSM, the 308 vs 8mm, and more!
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
The 300 wsm is one of the best cartridges to ever come out
Thanks Ron! I appreciate every video. I don't have much while on the road but listening and learning from you helps so much.
A friend of mine has the 270 WSM, 7MM WSM and 300 WSM. He shoots 140, 160, and 180 Accubonds at 3150 FPS, 2965 FPS, and 3000 FPS respectively. Great trio that are very accurate and very deadly. So, there is nothing wrong with these cartridges.
I have a 270wsm, run 140 grain TSX at 3150 ish. I like it. A lot. I’d buy other wsm versions in a heartbeat if I found one I liked and could get ammo for it.
@@phild9813 If you do decide to buy another one get the 300 WSM and shoot 165 Accubonds or an equivalent since it’s a great comprise bullet weight.
I also own all 3 and love them !!! I'm going to keep my 300 WSM Rem 700 accurized by GA Precision Bell and Carlson stock, Leupold VX 5 0.5 with factory loads at 100 Yds.
Rechambering my Rem 700 270 WSM to 7 mm WSM for a little extra punch , recoil the same! Maybe I'm bored ? Haven't shot the 270 in couple years. My other 7 mm WSM is a Win M 70 Accurized by GA precision also .5 MOA rifle. So When my son is Big game hunting with me we will both be using the same ammo.. 24 " barrel and full velocity in a Short action. Was also thinking 7 SAUM. Now my 7 mm Rem Mag is collecting dust.
I run the 7 wsm with 180 Berger hybrids. They are devastating on game.
I have all 3 and the for the most part the dead 7mm wsm is the best of the bunch
I have a Leupold vx freedom 3-9x40 that’s on a Ruger American in 6.5 creedmoor. Dad dropped it on the concrete garage floor, right on the scope, while cleaning it, from about 5 feet, and the scope turrets would no longer adjust. Called Leupold and sent it in, and just as you said- the spring on the erector tube was busted. I will sing the praises of their customer service and warranty until I have reason not to do so. They were efficient, kind, and did quality work. They fixed it and we’re shooting true once again!
Leupold has the best warranty and they are American made. Almost 60 years hunting and reloading and won’t buy any other scope for that reason because they are the best buy out there!
325 WSM is the finest hunting cartridge to come out in a long time.
Sure has worked well for me.
I know it is splitting hairs but I really like the idea of the ruger .338 rcm also. I own the .300 rcm and it is great!!
I wish the .350 Rem mag had stuck around. Those were cool little guns.
270 WSM is still my favorite. Taking a hard look at adding the 6.8 western
I’m also looking at that 6.8.
7mm Sherman Short got my attention.
Owned a 270wsm since the late 90s taken a truckload of deer and coyotes 150 sierras death ray very well mannered cartridge
Very informative Ron. Thanks.
Cheers Jeff
Another great video by Ron. Love his content. Here in Illinois, we are restricted to using shotguns for deer. I have a Savage 210 bolt action with a 24" barrel. I have a Thompson Center 2-7 power scope on it. One year my mother-in-law gave myself and my brother-in-law $500 for our birthday. We both bought new deer hunting shotguns. We hunted on the farm she grew up on. The gun and the scope cost almost exactly what she gave me. I have had it for over 20 years. I have taken a lot of deer with it (along with my S&W 629 Classic). I check it each year with one round at 100 yards. It is always on target. Good thing, since the rounds cost $3 each. All my kills at 100 yards or more are one shot. I use Winchester Partition Gold 3" shells. Wonderful bullets. Once I took a deer in a harvested and plowed field. I thought I had missed or that the deer had got away. After getting down from a high stand I went to where the deer was, and it was amazing. One shot kill. The deer did not move. It was the same color as the dirt. That is why I couldn't see it. A good scope is important, but it does not have to be fantastically expensive.
I love this video! I wish there was more about Roy Weatherby for us younger people who where not around back then. I love my 240 wby and my 257 wby. I cant wait to put a faster twist on my .257 wby and really see its potential! Thanks for the video Ron this information is so valuable and cherished by my generation.
Id love to see 257 weatherby with 135 berger be a fun long range cartridge
@@tylarhaugan7908built one for 133 berger Elite Hunter. its a beast
Good stuff Ron! A 325 WSM is calling me!!!
My 300 WBY on a Winchester action 180 gr with 84 gr 7828 sc 3300 fps fps with a Fed 215 , no pressure signs. Thanks Ron for mentioning these great hunting cartridges !……..
I love my model 70 featherweight in 325 wsm 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thanks so much for this podcast and your main channel Ron, I'm very new to firearms and have learned a lot and in a palatable and interesting way. Looking forward to the next one.
Thanks for listening, Ben.
Great podcast as usual Ron , thanks.
A friend of mine told me about a guy he once knew who came back to camp one night and propped his rifle up against his jeep. Later, he drove away and ran over the gun and bent the scope.
No problem. Shipped the thing back to Leupold with the correct explanation and waited for their reply.
They soon replied with a new scope and an apology.
That sold me on Leupold.
What was the correct explanation? Does "correct" mean "honest"?
I bought a used Leupold scope on s rifle I bought and it was a VX3 and it had an internal problem sent it back and they sent me a new scope that sold me! Been hunting for 60 years and collect guns too. Hundreds of scopes later I have found there isn’t a scope out there better then a Leupold scope for the price you pay and of course the warranty!
Vortex does the same thing
Thanks again professor Spomer, your modesty is appreciated, but unwarranted. Just the history alone. Just the physics alone. Just the real world experience alone. Dude. You rock. As a Californian/New Mexican, I so much appreciate your perspective on Weatherby, which filled in a lot of blanks for me. Colorful character indeed.
Thank you Mr. Chambers.
My favorite is 270 WSM still today even with all the new ones out there.
Mine too
My wife just dropped a huge hog in it's tracks with hers last night.. she loves it's light recoil, quiet and still wallops
I just began a 375/325 WSM. I am very excited to see what I can pull out of the cartridge.
The 8 mm mag is a wonderful cartridge especially with the 220 gr Sierra but never caught on ! The 7 STW is a necked down 8 mag !
I like the duck on the desk.
I've got a 7mm WSM and I love it . I've got a 300 WSM to I love it to. both of them are very good gun's.
Would love to see a video going into applications and history of each Weatherby cartridge as well as what your favorite Weatherby cartridge is and what each caliber would be good for.
Hope to get there some day, Taylor.
Great video. I had wondered why we didn't hear anything about Weatherby anymore. Very interesting.
I sure enjoy your videos Ron. Keep up the great work and thank you.
Thank you Michael.
Good show Ron.
I reload and found the WSM cases too long for short actions which did not allow proper seating depth for heavy for caliber bullets.
If all you want is to load light for caliber bullets your ok.
I traded my 270 WSM.
Great video! I love all your videos, I believe you have possibly forgotten more about guns and ammo than most people will ever know. Thanks Ron.
Thanks for watching, Gunman.
I have a 325 WSM in a Browning A Bolt with BOSS. I’ve been using 180 gr Nosler BT with great success. They discontinued that bullet but I have quiet a few left. I’ve had amazing accuracy with Hornady 195 gr SP with 1/2 MOA too.
Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Thanks Dan. Will try.
I love my Tikka 270 wsm. I know it's not groundbreaking but it's a flat shooter. I had my most likely quickest follow up shot with it.
I'm building my first bolt rifle as a "do all" hunting and LR target. Even with the PRCs in 6.5, 7 & 30 the 30 cal wsm seems like it has enough top tier atributes to justify building it instead of a 7 or 30 prc.
Your content is always informative.
Hello Ron, can you take a look at the relatively new 8.5x55 Blaser.
The cartridge is quite interesting for me.
Thanks keep up the good work!
As a younger person I always liked the weatherby rifles and couldn’t wait for the day that I could afford a “real” weatherby the mark V. Now that I’ve got 5 of them I can say they are great works of art and most other brands cannot compare. They are also heavy though which helps with recoil but can wear on you with a lot of walking/hiking. I personally love a Mark v rifle agree with the European listener and wouldn’t trade than for anything else.
Heavy yes, but you’ll adapt. After owning a .300 win mag in a light rifle, I’ve noticed how my .300 wby Accumark has less felt recoil.
The. 270 and .300 wsm are my two favorite chamberings ever..I meant ever!
Those 2 are far beyond expectation
I have a 270wsm 7mm wsm 300wsm. That said the best of the bunch is the 7mm wsm it will do both what the 270 and the 300 will do with less drop than both. Metric was shunned kinda at the time but boy that 7mm wsm is fricken amazing
@@nickb8618
Yeah I wanted that one also. But the ammo for it around here is very limited
@@nickb8618 a man of culture I see. Got my 7mm WSM as soon as it was available, and I've been using it ever since.
Been a fan of the WSM family since their inception, I have owned the 7mm, and 270 both are lasers. I found a New Haven CT built Coyote Model 70 in 270 WSM NIB a few years back, I've changed out the trigger to 2.5lbs, swapped the original stock for a short action FN tactical, and had the barrel threaded for a can. Can't wait to try it out.
The WSMs never got the respect they deserve. Great options. I've taken a lot of game, including moose, with 270 WSM. If only they'd released it with 1:8 twist.
7mm wsm is a missile strike on big game and at hunting ranges out to 500 maybe stretching to 600 yrds I’d take the 7mm wsm any day over the 28 nosler. Way Less recoil more efficient cartridge
All the wsm c clambering are very efficient using less powder to obtain the same MV'S , and brass life and ease to reload make them all great in my books
Good video. Very informative I would take an aperture iron sight any day. Greetings from Denmark
I have been hunting with the WSSM in 25 since I herd about it and have never had a problem feeding or otherwise it shoots the 120 gr better than my 25-06
I always wanted a 300wsm. Just seems like a great big game cartridge. Alot of P.H's use 300wsm for Bighorn Sheep, Bear, Elk, Moose and for extremely long range shots.
Since I knew I could only have one large caliber rifle. I chose an Armalite AR10 7.62x51 or 308. Can be used for hunting, targets, home defense, shooting competitions etc. When I get the chance to go hunting, I have a 5 & 10 round magazine just for hunting regulations. Good enough to hunt my first deer this season & wild boar. Living in sw Florida not much else to hunt with a 308.
The first sign if internet wisdom is intellectual honesty.
Know what you don’t know.
Thanks, Ron.
I’ve owned a Mod 70 300wsm for close to 30 years. I’ve never had a feeding issue, have taken many animals including a small black tail at over 450yds. Accurate, effective, and fun to shoot. Reloaded with 210 ABLR’s. Tons of energy.
I share your respect for the 300 WSM, Clark. If you bought on the year they came out, you've now had it for 22 years. Your 210-gr. ABLR at full MV of 2,890 fps will produce 3,895 foot pounds energy, almost 2 tons. Pretty impressive for a 2.86" long cartridge. Happy hunting.
I ended up with a 325wsm and I knew nothing about it when I got it. I have found it to be a highly effective cartridge and enjoy shooting it except for the extreme lack of ammo offerings and the prices associated with them. this is one of those cartridges that you absolutely must reload in order to afford to keep shooting it. that cost is why I will eventually be getting rid of this particular rifle
Good take on the Weatherby story
Really like to see a podcast on the 338-06 A Square, I'm trying to build amy collection to include every round based off the 30-06 case. A comparison of the 338-06 and 35 Whalen would be a great part of a episode over the 338-06, I'm ok if it's a longer video I love learning and I tend to realize I learn things I had questions on that I just hadn't thought about as well as the history.
The 338-06 is a super efficient round and it hangs so close to the 338 Win Mag with anything less than the 250 grain. If you dont have a 6.5-06 A-Square, make sure you get one. It is an incredibly easy round to load for.
I have a 338 06 Ackley Improved. It likes 200 accubonds at 2885 fps. 225 partitions shoot less than an inch at 2765. Brown bear and moose, excellent!! Recoil is very nice. This round is super efficient. I have taken many many elk with it, PERFECT !!
Rick Jamison, the man the legend… I remember was taking legal against Winchester, he had tons of articles and information on how to do things back in the day….Many many many projects and how to and why with him….
I can expand a bit on the information you provided on the .30-40 Krag. The US Army version of the cartridge was a smokeless powder round firing a 220gr round nose .30 caliber bullet at about 2,000fps. In US service it was called the .30 Army or .30 Government, but it has come down through history under its civilian name, .30-40 Krag. It was not a stellar performer compared to some of the other early smokeless powder military rounds but was still a big improvement over the earlier black powder cartridges in US service, like the .45-70. The US military rifles chambered for .30-40 Krag were the US Model 1892, Model 1896, Model 1898 and Model 1899 rifles and carbines. The Krag Jorgenson rifle was the standard military rifle of Norway and Denmark and it should be noted that it beat out 52 other competitors, including the Mauser, to be accepted into US service. The most significant advantage of the Krag's design, in the eyes of the US Army, was that the side mounted magazine could be opened and "topped off" without the need to open the bolt, and the lack of a box magazine below the bolt meant that there was a very smooth raceway over which to manually load individual rounds in single fire mode. (There was a magazine cutoff that enabled the bolt to be worked without feeding rounds from the magazine.) The Army valued ammunition conservation, and trained soldiers to load and fire single rounds except when necessity required greater firepower. The Krag action was also extremely smooth and reliable. In service, however, it was found that the Army's priorities for it's first smokeless powder magazine rifle were not ideal. The greater action strength of the Mauser type rifles allowed them to handle more powerful cartridges, while their box magazines allowed rapid reloading using stripper clips, and it was only a few years after the adoption of the Krag by the US armed services that they began looking for a replacement. That replacement was the 1903 Springfield.
There were thousands of US Krags sold off as surplus, and a great many of these were sporterized and sold to hunters. The round offered a couple hundred feet per second advantage over the .30-30 and enjoyed some popularity as a hunting round throughout the early decades of the 20th century. My grandfather hunted deer and bear in Pennsylvania with a sporterized Krag, and that old Krag was one of the first high powered rifles I ever fired. To this day, I have never used another bolt action that was as smooth as that Krag.
I love my Tikka lite in 300 wsm with a zeiss on it. 180 accubonds are the perfect match in my rifle. Highly accurate.
Ron my dad is cuckoo over the 7mm WSM, i handload the 154gr interlock to about 3000fps and he has killed deer, black bear, hogs and a couple of very large rogue cows. It works and has about the same recoil as a 30/06.
I will say I'd love to see a full cartridge review on the .325wsm. I've heard before that the .323" (8mm) bullet wasn't liked as well as .30cal bullets by north American hunters and that's why it never caught on, but I have a BLR chambered in it and it chambers very smooth, hits like a freight train with moderate recoil, and mine likes my 200gr Barnes tsx handloads
Same here. I have the 325 and 300 in WSM and love both cartridges.
I agree
@@Mr480junkie what do you love about each and why have both ?
@@MrJtin69 For one their non belted. They both pack a punch. Both of my rifles are Model 70's they handle like a dream. I can resize the cases between the 2 and use in either rifle. No feeding issues like Ron mentioned. Only downside is 8 mm bullet selection.
I agree there is no one that give any love to the mighty 325wsm I run one here in Australia and yet to see a animal walk away from it hard hitting great to shoot
I own a .270 WSM and a .300 WSM, and I absolutely love them. Especially, because they come in a short action. The only drawback, is due to "fatness" (.404 jefferies)of the cartridge, the magazines hold fewer rounds. But, I've decided that I shouldn't need a 4 or 5 rd magazine....make a good hit with the 1st shot...lol.
That's exactly how to look at it! 1 shot and done.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Exactly...if I can't make a clean shot, I won't take it. I get very irritated at hunters who are careless with their shots. We owe the animal more than that.
Everyone has stories. So, hear is mine. Shot my very first trophy whitetail with a 325 wsm. Problems! Not really, but it is difficult to find ammunition. Lucked up and found a new Browning BAR in 325 wsm. Everyone has a different rational, but I am proud of it because not everyone has a 325. Whatever floats your boat. Lastly, the recoil is highly manageable.
If tha trigger is gold, tha game will fold my friend. My 325 wsm A bolt is a straight killer
I love the wsm cartridges . Especially the 325
I do love the 325 wsm neat round
The WSM cartridges are really accurate, just to big for hunting here in the UK
I have one for F class and love it, chambered in 7mm WSM
I also have one, but haven't shot it yet.
7mmWSM is the one to beat. 7mm Sherman Short is the most optimized configuration of any of the short magnums, since you get 40° shoulder and COL with the VLDs that still fit WSM AI mags.
He has brass ready to go with reamer rentals, so I'm tempted to go that route.
Another very interesting video! Question? How did Roy Weatherby measure the speed of his bullets? Did he have a chronograph back then, did he have radar? The wildcatting from Mr. Weatherby sounds pretty interesting! I think I'd like to hear more information about some of the history of those wildcat cartridges! Great show! God bless you Mr. Ron Spomer!🇺🇲✝️🇺🇲
I'm not sure how Weatherby did his measurements, but two older methods to measure bullet velocity was to use a ballistic pendulum or a pair of spinning disks.
For the ballistic pendulum, a bullet is shot at a mass that is suspended on a pendulum. The mass is free to rotate on the pendulum, and how high the mass rises on the back swing can be used to determine how much kinetic energy the bullet had. Since kinetic energy is a function of mass and velocity, and the mass of the bullet is known, you can solve for velocity.
The other method of spinning disks involves two paper disks fixed on an axle. The disks are spun to a high rate of speed, and since they're fixed together they spin at exactly the same angular velocity. A bullet is shot through the spinning disks, and the difference in angle between the first hole and the second hole can be used to determine how much time passed. Since the distance between the disks is known, velocity can then be calculated.
Garrett, Tuton25 has the answer!
@@Tuton25
Thank You! I appreciate it! This might be an interesting subject for Ron to talk about!🇺🇲✝️🇺🇲
@@garrettforchrist2700 Harry Pope used this method also, he is another guy to read up on.
I enjoyed this one... thanks.
How about a vid on strait wall rifle cartridges to stretch your wings.
I have done some straight wall cartridge videos, joracer, but will do more. Will be loading for a 458 Lott this spring and shooting said rifle for some recoil videos.
I have a 325WSM it’s a 8 mm mag. I use it for a bad weather rifle. It makes a great brush rifle. A BLR it looks like an old 30-30. It’s not a hard shooter the recoil isn’t bad. Ammo though is ridiculously expensive at $5 a round.
300 wsm is deadly as hell, very very accurate, slight difference of the 300 win mag, with less recoil,
a scope I've been using for almost 10 years, turned out to be for an airsoft rifle. I only just recently noticed that. all I do is target shoot, I'm too lazy for hunting, but the scope has worked flawless. there's one thing, the crosshairs illuminate, and I always forget how to turn it off, so I don't use that. I really don't need illuminated crosshairs, but it's a cool feature.
About the Krag-Jorgenson: the rifle was a Scandinavian design (Norwegian?), but I think the cartridge was US designed (don't quote me on it). And you are correct about the 40 being the powder weight, but like the 30-30 Win, it's smokeless powder, whereas the system of making the powder weight a part of the cartridge's nomenclature was a holdover from the era of black powder cartridges, the only two "modern" cartridges I know of to use that system. And the round was introduced in 1892, being in 1898. It was used by the US military until the introduction of the 30-03 Springfield.
Thank you.... 🙏 😔 🙏
How are doing?... Ron, if you are doing it, it is done as right as you know how to do it. That is just fact.
Thanks for the reminder about Roy and the rounded shoulders on the brass used in Weatherby cartridges. He was onto something, but he never proved what it was.
Has anyone every proven anything about the different shoulder designs, other than it can help with the ease of loading from a magazine?
Your stuff is always good, Ron.
🌮🙏🖖🙏😔🙏🙏🙏🎄
Weatherby is cool and all and I have a 257 and 25-06. The Wby burns about 20% more powder and shoots about 10% faster but really doesn't impress me more than my 25-06. I can't explain why but the 25-06 is my Goldilocks deer rifle.
I agree. I've shot deer with a number of different calibers. 25-06 was the best deer killer.
I wonder how the 25.06ai compare.
.257" and .264" are about optimal for medium game. .257" gives you more options for varmint weight bullets, while 6.5mm has more target and heavier bullets.
.257 Roberts is another great deer cartridge that can double as a varmint or pelt harvester.
@@Prairiekidski 25 WSSM is where it's at for the quarterbores.
Same. It’s a head scratcher. Try a 100gr Barnes TTSX if you haven’t. Wow.
I have a savage chambered for the 270WSM, it is a tack driver
I’ve got a .300 Weatherby and I absolutely love it! Even though a box of 20 factory loaded is over 100 bucks nowadays in California.
Please talk about the free bore in the chambering of the Weatherby cartridges. I know the answer but I think the people need to know from you, thanks Ron!
I had one, but could never get it to shoot under a inch, I am not a fan of the really long freebore. I had to go to 200gr Bergers to even get it close, killed a lot of game with it, but I am rebarreling the rifle at the moment..got tired of the high price of brass for it also. I did love the 240wby, I used 30-06 cases for it.
What do you need a 300 weatherby in ca for?👀👀😳
@@bryanfox2735 works great on elk and bear. I mean as far as that goes, what does anyone need more then a self bow and ceder arrows in north America. It's a matter of want, not need..and no, I don't live in comiforna, nor have I ever.
@@bryanfox2735 Marauding trucks and long range hippies
Hello Ron. Would you discuss the .260 Remington and which rifles are still chambered for it? Thanks!
Awesome… thanks buddy…
My grand father has an old custom brno rifle in 8x68mm, I wonder if Ron can do a quick history on this cartridge or all the 8mm's.
I remember Rick Jamison, alleged designernof the WSM and the lawsuit. I loved his articles in the Shooting Times magazine. He disappered from the magazine following the lawsuit and more and less from the scene. I missed him.
I thought it was Johh Sundra
He Pops up from time to in other magazines.
He cooked his own goose
Jameson is still selling brass out of kas vegas
Jamison has been selling/making brass for quite some time now. He was out of the business for a while but has been back for at least a decade. They form some of those hard to find cartridges too
Other than the 7mm mag. Metrics have failed until the Creedmoor in the US 🇺🇸. I got my 270wsm because the 7/08 was out of stock. I had already payed so said send it. The best mistake in guns I've made. I've been able to get under moa past 400yds . Very easy to load for and quite consistent.
They sold and still sell a lot of .243 rifles so the 6mm did alright
@shawnmiller4781 True, but they did not call it a 6mm but 243 caliber. There was 6mm Rem about the same time and it did not do so well. It was just a American thing back then.
Ron you missed part of the problem with the 8mm mauser is the .323 is downloaded to 30/30 velocity just incase somebody loads a .323 round into a .318 rifle. I have heard that in Europe you can get full power rounds presumably not as many lawyers. Plus they are familiar with the difference.
I was not aware the .323 versions of the 8x57 (designated the 8x57JS as opposed to the 8x57J version at .318") were severely downloaded. Most modern handloading manuals give data for the .323 versions and warn against using in tighter bores.
US loads are extremely weak! Our loads in Europe are pretty similar to a 30-06, not all but many. Have fun.
We did have the 30-40 Kragg in service at San Juan. Our enemy had the Mauser with Spitzer bullets tho, and even though we won the battle, our 30-40 Kragg was dominated and outclassed by the Mauser, so we pretty stole the design and ended up with the 03 Springfield in 30-06.
Greetings Ron, the .30-40 was America's intermediary cartridge between the .45-70 & the.30-03. The US's 1st small bore & smokeless powder rnd, it was only loaded to 2000fps until after the Spanish/American War when it went up against the 7x57 Mauser in the "93" Spanish Mauser rifle traveling @ 2500fps (I think). The US tried to boost the.30-40 to 2200fps but the Krag action wasn't able to take the pressure due to shortcuts the Springfield Armory had made in production. The story of the Krag's adoption & countless upgrades, new models, more upgrades, etc. are covered fairly thoroughly by one of C&Rsenal's Primer episodes. In the end the US copied the Mauser design in creating the 1903 Springfield, (incurring a patent infringement lawsuit with Mauser... which the US lost but never paid because of WW1!).
Actually, most material i have seen is that we did pay until WW1. I think the case was resolved around 1908.
I remember the article, introducing the WSM I like that it headspaces on the shoulder instead of the rim cuz there is no rim and also short fat configuration makes for Less unburned powder being pushed up the bore so Less recoil and less muzzle blast but I think somebody should have tried a heavier bullet on the 325 because the 200 grainer doesn't go any faster than the same on the 300 case perhaps trying higher sectional density bullets until the muzzle velocity drops Bellow 2300 feet per second would maximize the potential of the 325 for a hunting cartridge
HI ron, the speed from the Weatherby is made possible from the free bore, comparison to other calibres mags and so on do not have that free bore, careful these presures will go up when free bore goes down, just alittle imput so it does not get mixed up with the Weatherbys, they are great rifles,the alinement is key to the free bore and you will know it becouse you will pay for that name Weatherby, dont forget the famous double radius shoulder. GOD bless.
Seems like when I was a kid the Army surplus stores had the 8mm Mauser rifles for 35 bucks I think, I'm sure Lots were bought and put in the deer woods with good success
I read years ago that the patenter allowed the chambering of the 270wsm & 300wsm without fee? but retained the 7wsm for a royalty which no-one was keen to pay. So it was largely ignored by the rifle manufacturers and hence not much demand for the cartridge today.
Still a great medium action alternative to the 7 Rem Mag and possibly the best of the 3 chamberings lost in history.
Correct me if I'm wrong
I think I read it in 'Rifle Shooter' quite a while ago.
I'm not positive, Andy, but my sources within the industry indicate all the WSMs were affected equally and I believe the Rem. SAUMs, too. But not the WSSMs.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors they were really close to the Lazzoroni line, I do know that.
7mm is the WSM/SAUM to beat for bug game.
The 8mm Mauser is perfect for short barrels and driven hunts.
Ron, have you ever done anything on obsolete cartridges, like th 8.15 or 9x56MS I load and shoot both of these, they have a interesting history.
I still wonder how much that settlement had to do with the New Haven plant closing..Settlement was reached if I recall the rumor mills right,just before they shut it down.
Also if memory serves the WSSMs SARUMs were covered..
7mm WSM n WSSMs along with the SARUMs went .Took a bit but now the 325 which was reported 1st of in popularity for awhile .
I also wonder how long them patients were for as there been several short fat mags come n gone since.
Oh well..
I Like em
RON you can talk just about any cartridges & guns BUT- I hav to TELL you my Friend you are the best & and MAKE sure that you never sell your sell yourself short !
I’ve watched you for so many years I’m thinking it would nice sometime to actually shake your hand 🤚 would love to meet some day ! My shooting brother !!!
Well, thank you for that, Bruce. It would be my pleasure to meet you and shake your hand. I don't do a lot of conventions and shows these days, but will be speaking at the Jack O-Connor Hunting Heritage and Education center fundraiser in Lewiston, ID, June 10-11. Stop in if you're nearby! Otherwise, perhaps we'll bump into one another afield. Cheers!
It’s possible Winchester missed the boat with slow twist rates. Right after the WSM cartridges came out, the popularity of fast twist rate for high BC-heavy for caliber projectiles-grew. My Kimber and ABolt Titanium chambered in 325wsm are a unique addition to my collection.
My 7mm WSM has a 1 in 9 twist. It handles heavy bullets fine.
Hole in my holes at 100 yards, 223wssm, 25wssm, 270wsm all great rounds. I got rid of the 7 wsm it kicked like a mule. I have shot bigger calibers and still didn't kick like that 7wsm. I know it was the rifle being on the light side hence I had no use for it.
I have a 325 wsm it’s been an amazing elk bear moose round 200 grain accubonds can kill anything in us and Canada I’ve taken them and this is my go anywhere rifle. Carries like a carbine punches like a 338 win mag. I wish it was more popular and cheaper to shoot
🛑🛑 I have a Browning A-Bolt White Gold Medallion in 325 WSM.
The Gun is a “true hammer”, on the barrel end, as well as the shooter end. 🔨 😂💯
I fire 200 Grain AccuBonds through it.
I’ve killed 2 Black Bears with it, as well as 1 White Tailed Buck.
I hit the Buck in the Front Right Shoulder, and out the Left Shoulder.
The bullet hit that buck so hard, that the spine of the Buck was actually twisted, and both of the shoulders were offset.
The exit wound was a bit, ugly.
I don’t carry the 325 anymore for Whitetails.
The recoil of the 325 is very heavy. I swear the recoil can knock the fillings out of your head. 💯
Great Gun.
Ammo is hard to find.
The gun is a Very Special Gun in my collection. 😀👍💯
Is the 270wsm making a come back? Noticing more selection of rifles available in that caliber.
You can’t beat the 270 wby mag. Flat shooting hard hitting and not overkill
What's overkill?
@@locarnese5598 1000 gr 700 nitro express on a squirrel 😂
@@trg3761 Please don't give me any ideas! LOL - I already use .375 H&H on whitetail!
Never jam a 270 except the time my dad ran down a herd of elk with his cj5 keep with the 304 v8 engine I dropped 4 elk and in the rush to hand load another round to get my fifth I jammed the action but no fault of the rifle just trying to hard to get that next elk before the herd got out of range
Why did the 30-40 Krag fail?
It wasn't as much the cartridge that wasn't up to measure as it was the rifle bolt. The design of the bolt was that the locking lugs were not on the bolt head and did not lock to the front of the receiver like most rifles today. Therefore, pressure was the issue. The standard velocity of the Krag was only about 2200 fps. Some experiments were done to raise the velocity but ended up damaging the bolts and causing a lot of blow-by. Even though the 30-40 Krag had a rimmed case it could have stood more pressure and higher velocities but the bolt could not. This is why the next U.S. military rifles ('03 Springfield) were based on the front locking Mauser action and rimless cases (30-03/30-06).
the 30-40 krag has a thinner web than the 06 also, so even in say a modern single shot, you still can't go much over 40,00 cup with it, I mean, you can in like Ruger no3, but case life suffers greatly.
Nosler came up with the first real fix for the velocities of the Weatherby cartridges by developing the Partition bullets.
Yes indeed. I believe John Nosler was shooting a 300 H&H Mag. when he was inspired to make the Partition, but they were soon applied to various Wby. rounds.
And the Accubond is even better in magnums as my 60 years of with mostly Nosler and my dads friend reloaded them in the 50’s and 60’s and he got them from John who he knew!
.300wsm is the most accurate hunting cartridge I've ever owned. It puts holes in holes at 100 yards.
I can do that at 500 no kidding
@@cowboywoodard2569 world record @ 600 is .228"
It's a jagged hole.
World record @ 100 is .177
Your just a poser. No kidding.
The 300 H&H also shoots very accurate I have not shot the short magnum version but I have shot the 270 WSM it is a intriguing cartridge
@@scottscheuerman6170 the world is full of great cartridges and great rifles. I never could group a .300H&H under 1mil. Awesome cartridge though. The .270wsm is also stupid accurate. But it's a barrel burner, I got 1100 rounds out of mine, before I had to get some work done. I've got +2000 out of my .300wsm so far and it's still under 1mill @100 yards.
@@danelobe2524 I got a pre 64 at a pawn shop of all places and that old 300 H&H will clover leaf 180 grain hornadys at 100 yards that I hand loaded I’m getting another 270 WSM I used to have a savage and I sold it now I have found a Winchester 70 super grade for a good price and I’m getting it shipped because I have all the reloading stuff what do you load for accuracy in your 270 WSM I had good success in the savage with IMR 7828 powder
They got the idea that a sharp (35 to 45 degree) shoulder was a problem while sitting behind their typewriters, in 43 years of using wildcats I've never seen it become an issue. Same story with case taper, they claimed all kinds of problems would occur if you got even close to less than 0.010 per inch of taper. Good thing Hornaday didn't pay any attention to that when they set out to design the 6.5 Creedmore.
Availability, burns alot of powder which may reduce barrel life, feeding issues maybe. However ballistics are awesome. 300 wsm has less recoil and has less of these problems.
I've never had a problem getting it up and in. Wife sent me to the doctor when it happened too often.
I’m pretty sure with 300 wsm specifically when it was first released the prints were changed. I heard some early rifles from Sako suffered from this. Also like the 6.5 PRC they really don’t fit into a standard short action that well. With it being winchesters cartridge they just made their actions longer, almost as long as the defiance XM length. The 300 RSAUM is shorter and has changes to the rest of the geometry to fit better in a standard 700 pattern short action.
All my WSM ammo is 2.800 inch or shorter. Same as 308. And I use a Winchester short action.
@@spraynpray are you loading 180’s-200’s?
So as to John this is something that many doesn't understand. For many( at point blank range is at close range distances. You explained point blank ranging well, however I find it takes explanation more than once. Years ago a friend when I first attempted to explain that with the the velocities achieved with his load combination with a 1.75" high impact at 100 yards would give him a center hold point blank range out to 310 yards. This friend took this information and translated it into if one pill is good two must be better approach. He sighted the rifle in at 4" high at 100 yards, and couldn't understand why he kept missing... You know that old saying (do I have to write you a letter?) Well I actually had to draw him a graph.
Yes, it takes repetition and study for some to grasp MPBR.
Was it Jarrett? I'm thinking they had a short mag first but seemed like they had a different shoulder than a wsm
The interesting thing is that Blaser has made a 8.5mm (.338) round that closely resembles a WSM or SAUM case. Being Blaser, it’s mostly intended for the European market. My thinking is that Blaser should have made it in 8mm and Winchester should have made the.338 WSM instead of the .325 since 8mm rounds sell well in Europe and 8.5 mm rounds not as much.
I have it and love it. 8,5x55 Blaser, perfect for short barrels and silencer for moose.
Best from Norway.
How bout the 54 degree bolt throw on the Weatherby. He made everything better... Cartridge,Action,Stock, put them together and it is a unicorn 🦄
I couldn’t imagine getting anything else other than my .300 wby Accumark, I get a lot of people asking me what gun is that when I go to the range, seems most ppl aren’t familiar with Weatherby rifles.
8mm rem mag is a good cartridge also but limited bullet selection compared to the 338 bullets.
As I understand, the WSM cartridges were based on the PPC cartridges. The two attributes that made them so accurate was they were beltless and they had short cases. The shorter length made for a more consistent powder burning. The lack of a belt meant they headspaced on the throat, making the engagement to the barrel throat more consistent. That's not to say a belted magnum can't be accurate. It means all other things being equal, case length has to be carefully controlled to achieve the same accuracy as a beltless round.
I have identical winchester model 70s in 300wsm 300win mag so direct comparison the 300wsm I’ve shot 3 shot groups at 100 yrds through the same hole on target. Not saying the 300 win mag ain’t accurate but dam that 300 wsm is better than most custom rifles. I’m a model 70 fan only reason I have both and paid 325 bucks new for that 300win mag two weeks after I bought that 300wsm back in my the day. I couldn’t pass up new model 70 claw extractor for that price