7mm WSM: Why did it fail?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2022
- In this video I go over why the 7mm Winchester Short Magnum failed. I talk about it's history, ballistics and three reasons why it isn't more popular. Hope you enjoy the video!
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When my daughter(left eye dominant...dang) was coming of age for big game hunting, I put a lot of thought into a rifle and cartridge combination for her. After much contemplation I bought her a Savage 110(left handed of course) chambered in the 7WSM. To say that rifle is accurate would be a gross understatement. With my limited skills at the reloading bench and using bullets ranging from 160 to 100grns, I can only recall one group that went over an inch...slightly. That was with 160grn Win fail safe bullets during load development for a moose hunt. The best group(3 shot) I have ever shot with any centerfire cartridge was an honest 0.080"using 100grn Sierra hp's. Loaded a bunch of those for coyotes we would see regularly while out chasing critters. For deer, sheep and such, I decided on the 140grn TSX(this was just before the release of the TTSX) with a charge of 4831sc. This load will regularly shoot sub 3/4 inch. So far so good right!? Then Winchester announced they would be discontinuing production of the model 70's and 94's and at the time they were offering model 70's in left hand. Long story short, I bought her a model 70 featherweight LH and just for sh1ts and giggles picked up one for myself, both in 7WSM. These rifles were bought mostly for investment/collectability purpose but not to be relegated to gun safe queen status. The only load testing for both these rifle I did was to grab a box of deer loads for her Savage, fireformed for her rifle, and try 'em out. Both Winchesters shot those loads into beautiful little triangle groups right at 3/4". You could say I was pleased.
I stockpiled enough brass, bullets, powder and primers for all my rifles(rimfires and shotguns for that matter also) to last beyond my lifetime so ammo shouldn't be a problem.
Nice! The 7mm WSM is a great cartridge! You definitely have some collector items with those two guns.
Did you ever use imr 4350 for your 7wsm Bill
Much of the failure had to do with the patent infringements of the WSM cartridges. This had many trickle down affects - limited manufacturers chambering/ producing ammo, direct price increases to pay toward the infringement.
I believe that the case was filed in 2005 and had a very negative impact on the entire WSM line, that still very much has a carry-over affect to this day.
Yep
Hasn't the time frame run out and they don't have to pay royalties anymore????
I have a 7 mm wsm & as far as hunting experience goes. It has flat out laid 8 trophy bucks dead in their tracks for me. Knock down power is astonishing
I really wish winchester would make them again I'm trying to get all the WSM cartridges n the 7mm is the one I want in a model 70 synthetic n stainless
@@jmgates09I would love to sell mine.
@stevoky what you working with sorry it took so long lol I have a 7wsm now in model 70 but if yours is a Browning I'd be interested
I recently built a 7mm WSM and am learning this Rifle. So far I love it shoots very straight and fast 3115 Hornady Copper 150g.
What did you build it on cause I been wondering if I could use a 270wsm and just swap the barrel for a 7wsm
@@jmgates09 yes you can !
I love my 7mm wsm. It never liked factory 150 grain loads but it likes 140, 160, and 175 grain. I've taken antelope, mule deer, and elk with it. It's very flat shooting and excellent on game. Bought it new in 2008. One of the best purchases I ever made.
Thanks for sharing
That's terrific. WSM form factors are a cool concept.
Best rifle I've ever hunted with. 30-06's,.270's,.30-30's,.243's all I've had to track deer after the shot. My 7 WSM drops 'em in their tracks
Do you have a custom barrel I didn't think the 7wsm would stabilize a 175gr
@@jmgates09 Nope. Factory barrel with a 1:9.5 twist on a Browning A-bolt stainless stalker.
Own a Browning A-Bolt II in .300 WSM and a Kimber Montana in .270 WSM. Both are excellent shooters. Ammo is high and much less common. Never understood why the 7mm WSM didn't fare better.
I'm kind of scratching my head on why the 7mm WSM failed as well.
Guess the fad for short magnums came afterward, every few month a new one comes out almost identical
I shot my first moose in Alaska with one heart shot at 200yds using the 7mm WSM 165gr. I recovered the bullet and still have it. I have a lifetime supply of ammo I bought over a decade ago.
I have browning automatic in 7wsm. Great shooter, deerstand rifle.
The 7mm wsm is a far superior acurracy round than the others the only down fall is the price an avaliablity
Why does the 300wsm hold the record for tightest group at 1000 then
@@jmgates09because more people shoot it.
I found this video a little late. I would love to own a 7mm WSM. I have not bought one because brass is hard to find. In my opinion its death was spawned by two things:
1.) Winchester did a very poor job of promoting it. Companies like Hornady do an outstanding job of promoting any cartridge they introduce. Winchester did not do that with the 7mm WSM.
2.) Back in those days the 7mm Rem Mag was still the rage. It was SO popular and hard to compete against.
Another Observation:
What was NEVER mentioned by Winchester was that the 7mm WSM did not have a belt (unlike the 7mm Rem Mag). This would have made it more popular with reloaders. I will never understand why they never mentioned that much. The 7mm WSM is one of the best dead cartridges out there. Such a shame. Great video.
Thanks for watching
I enjoy 325 wsm and 300 wsm alot 325 is just a unqiue build for me a super lightweight brush buster
Looking forward to your 7 mm WSM project ! I had two 300 WSM and had one Re barreled to 7 mm WSM similar performance less recoil .
I also own a 270 WSM . All accurized by GA Precision ! All have 24 " barrels , short Actions . Two are Rem 700's one is Win Mod 70 . I still shoot the 300 and 7 mm WSM not so much the 270. although the 270 is very capable and very close to the 7 mm.. Also have 7 rem mag with longer barrel and heavier rifle... Tikka and SAKO .Factory rifles. Love them also ! IDK ? I bought a fare amount of 7 mm WSM ammo bcz now you can only get with custom ammo... No brass available .. Couple of my friends in TX shoot 7 mm SAUM bcz there is available brass. I may Re barrel my 270 WSM to Saum to I can get brass ? Not sure yet! Anyway WSM are All very capable and I have made long shot kills with all out to 500 yds! off rest with perfect conditions ! ACCUBOND, BARNES TTSX, Trophy Bonded Tip and Fed Fusion !! Have shot rocks to a thousand with all !! My last comment is " It;s the Indian and not the arrow " The person pressing the trigger and ammo selection most important variables.. IMO
I love my 325wsm 200 grain accubonds 170 grain sst
7mm wsm was the best of the wsm ballistically. At the time Americans stuck there noses up at metric rounds. That’s why the 7mm wsm failed. I’d take a short action any day over a long action comparing the wsm to the rem mag. What’s hilarious is the 6.8 western which is so close to the 7mm wsm it’s stupid. That said my 7mm wsm just put another big wi buck on the wall yesterday
Nice! Congrats on the buck
My theory is a little different. It was not because of its ballistics, they were fine. I personally think that many hunters that bought 300 Win Mags came to realize that its recoil was just too much. Many of them went down to the 7mm Rem Mag. 7mm Rem Mag was very popular and is a lot better ballistically than the 30-06 and recoil was very similar. So 7mm Rem Mag was popular. Some of the 300 Win Mag shooters also switched to the 300 WSM that was noticeably kinder to the shoulder than the 300 Win Mag. with very similar power. That left very little market available for the 7mm WSM. Everyone had their 7mm Rem Mags or 300 WSM and there was no reason to buy the 7mm WSM except it was in a short action. I think it was that simple. Now we'll have to see how Hornady does with their 7mm PRC. It will be saddled with that longer than normal short action but maybe it will squeeze out a niche for itself. However, Hornady will have to sell that ammo for par or less than 7mm Rem Mag and that ammunition better all be very accurate (like they did with 6.5 Creed) for it to have a chance. After all, it will be battling the 7mm SAUM thats presently becoming the darling of long range matches because of its ballistics.
I think your theory holds up
7 prc poops on the saum
For everybody saying it is hard to get 7mm wsm brass, there is an Australian brass manufacturer who imports to the US called Bertram Brass. I have used his brass and have found it to be very high quality as have many of my friends. The exchange rate keeps the prices down as well. Hopefully this helps guys struggling to find good brass
I own one and love it
I bet! It's a good cartridge!
I think its a great round im building a custom 7wsm as we speak built on a short action win model 70 claw extractor with a 22 inch spiral fluted hart light weight barrel with 1-8 twist and its throated to shoot 180 berger bullets should be a nice light mountain rifle that can reach out
Sounds awesome
I agree, it just didn't offer very much to make people want to lay out the cash for a new rifle. You'd save a few ounces of weight, but you get one less round in the magazine, and as noted, performance was identical. Compare that to the .270 WSM, which did offer a significant improvement in performance over the .270 Winchester and consequently sold much better than the 7mm version.
Good points
I think they just come out at the wrong time if it had dropped in 2018 and above they would have sold like hotcakes cause right now 300wsm is in top ten for most custom rifles made 6.5 PRC is number 1 just had to throw that in there lol
I wish I could get a .223 wssm. That is a screamer!
It's the only Winchester short magnum I'd be interested in I think it's a good one
My brother has a 270wsm and I have a 7mm wsm and 300 wsm. The 7mm is the best of the bunch. Less wind drift and dam near the same ftlbs of energy as the 300 at long range with accubonds
I saw several 1000yd matches the New Browning X-Bolt 7wsm won the matches. Stock Rifles with Leopold Scopes. Before the had the Mk6 & 7 stuff. I think saying it Failed or the 270wsm. Would be a very Bias opinion. The 223Wssm and other Wssm's are the ones that haven't Caught on. Also the Ones that aren't being chamber by anyone but Customs. The WSM Have Done quite well. I have an FFL. Anytime I've have in stock they sale.
They must sale pretty good people got ammo jacked up on Gun Broker and it sales for sure I can't lie I paid 130 plus tax and shipping for a box of 160gr Trophy bonded tip and 100 for a box of 140gr Trophy bonded tip minus 1 from John McAdams even had him autograph the box
I don't think you are wrong at all. 7mmMags are easier to get cheaper ammo and reloading supplies and I know you can find cheaper rifles. I would add two unfounded reasons. A lot of people take on the incorrect assumption that WSM's are barrel burners however, you wont see barrel erosion one bit faster than the 7mm Rem Mag. And the equally unfounded belief that the WSM family experience more feeding malfunctions. My buddy still has a 22WSSM and even it doesn't really have problems. That's a hell of a fun cartridge to shoot BTW! But I think that your conclusions are the most likely. People aren't inclined to may more if they aren't getting more out of it. Great topic as always!
A fix for the “short neck” issue may be with an Ackleyized version, by shortening the body length @0.125” but blowing it out for 0 net capacity loss, and lengthen the neck with the Ackley shoulder. Should result in @0.1875” longer neck with similar performance. Hmm, sounds like a SAUM.
I think it wasn't the round but the rifles and twist rate in them, to close to 7mm Rem. mag and the 7mm Rem. Had a huge head start.
I see the twist rate being an issue today, do you think it was an issue when the cartridge first released 21 years ago?
@@ReloadingWeatherby I think twist rate has been the biggest problem for why cartridges fail look at the history of the 6mm and others not enough forward thinking. Rifle manufacturers build a firearm and change nothing whe it comes to rifling. Savage just started to see that in the 223 bolts. It has to change as other thing come online but the firearms industry changes at a slow pace that's why custom rifles are gaining more popular
Hmmmm interesting, I was thinking of building a AR 10 chambered in 7mm wsm. The round seems to have quite the following, seeing rifle builds everywhere, and ammo is everywhere, even on the shelf in my local sporting goods store. The round performs well, no issue's with accuracy. Just curious why would this be considered a fail ? I always considered a round a fail when they quit making ammo like the WSSM.
Go for it! If you have ammo in your area... why not?
I love my 325 wsm
It's just another "also ran". As much as I like playing with new rifles and new cartridges, few if any of the new ones do anything that hasn't been done for the last 50+ years. Add to this that we just aren't a 7/284 shooting nation. Sure there are 2 popular 7's, the 7 Rem Mag and to a much lesser extent the 7-08. Other that those the list of failed 7's is long. Good cartridges with really advantageous bullets, but no big followings. I also think the rifle manufacturers messed up by not offering super light weight rifles in the short mags (WSM and SAUM). Talk all you want about belts and short action length, that's just theories that few care about.
Oh man... is there a single 7mm Short Action Magnum that is genuinely popular? I mean.. .284 Win is virtually non existent, 7 WSM is basically gone and 7 SAUM seems like it is quite rare to me.. looking at the longer cartridges, .280 Rem, .280 AI, 7 Rem Mag, heck even the 7x64 Brenneke is still used in Europe and Africa!
Yeah
I’m thinking about accepting a New Haven M70 super shadow in 7mm WSM and researching… A LOT lol. I can’t figure out their value. Forum from 3-5 years ago seemed to sell them for $350. Now they seem to be going for $550-750. The bullets are nonexistent on the internet except for some beat up cases on gun broker for $5/rd. It comes with 60 rounds. On one hand that value is high. Is this is niche caliber only for hand loaders or would it be a good one to grab in a really cheap transaction?
I think it depends on what your local shops have with factory ammo. My go to place funny enough has a good amount of 7mm WSM factory ammo.
@@ReloadingWeatherby oh okay. I’ll have to call around bc I got scared off by ammo seek showing NIL. I will say, I’m wanting an excuse to get into reloading but maybe that’s even an issue with this caliber idk. Do you think the M70 with CRPF is a decent platform to start with?
@@ReloadingWeatherbydo they still have the ammo there?
Did you intend to say to keep people from putting a 7mm into a 270?
Nope, I meant saying putting a 270 into a 7mm.
If the shoulder on the 7mm is farther forward wouldn't that allow a 270 wsm to be chambered in the 7mm with excessive headspace.
@@johnperusek4 Nice catch... I made a mistake. Meant to say 7mm can't fit into 300 WSM chamber. 300 WSM shoulder length is shorter than 7mm WSM
I disagree with the assessment that the 270 wsm being more of a niche cartridge. Around as popular as cartridges like 25-06, 280 Rem, 338 win mag, perhaps even 7mm-08. I wouldn’t call that niche. It is a shame the 7 and 325 aren’t more popular. The wsm line is excellent, in my worthless opinion.
I can see that.
I would agree that the seven no one really wanted much. And now everyone’s talking about it 7 mm oh eights for getting more popular. I think it’s because people have gotten used to 6.5 and six and millimeter cartridges in general plus everyone love their 30 cal. Then the six fives come out and people love them, but somehow the issues with his on game. For the most part, I find the seven the sweet spot.
Thanks for commenting!
Lots of people say 7mm is the best maybe so but I'm a 6.5 and 30 cal guy
Well like most of us price and availability has the best influence on popularity. You would stand a better chance of seeing the lock ness monster than a wsm or a WSSM in my area. As a matter of FACT. I have NEVER see one!!! 🤣⚡️💥💥 in the wilds!!!!
7 weatherby mag, long action, full Rifle. Accurate. No Feeding problems. Better ballistics.
Seen you liked my comment on Ron Spomers page. I'm assuming it sparked your idea to do this.
Your comment and a few others
Ron spomer says whatever he is paid to say. He is entertainment purposes only.
How much better is the 7mm WSM over the 7mm PRC?
They are about the same.
They did not fail, it fell into legal issues the 270,7mm,300, and the 325WSM are awesome and the 325WSM is very close to that of the 8mm mag but doesn't remove teeth on recoil, I know first hand with this family of wsms it's not better but just as good and a little more efficient on powder burn and I will never surrender my 325WSM you can load it up and down for most situations where the longer actions are tougher to do, but as I said earlier the legal issue have made the cost of such ammunition more but everything has taken a devastating hike in price, the bullets for the hand loader of the .323 bullets and just a little tougher in design over the smaller calibers and work great, now if they had invested in the faster twist rates it probably would have exploded into a more popular family of short mags but knowing these cartridges there is really no failure except for the legal and economic view points and ownership of a Browning rifle in any of these cartridges would please most people they just didn't get the hype like the Creedmoor and the PRCs received, so no they are not a failure they are very accurate and pleasant to shoot and reload.
Aim small, good hunting, GOD BLESS.
While we can laugh at Winchester for launching so many failed cartridges in recent years. We must at least give them some credit for “casting a wide net” and giving us many options. Also how about a top ten hornady cartridges.
Does Hornady even have 10 cartridges? Now I need to go count them.
I like the 6.8 western.
The children of hornady I know of:
338 marlin express
338 rcm
6 arc
6.5 grendal
6 creedmoor
6.5 creedmoor
17 hmr
30 tc
6.5 prc
7 prc
300 prc
375 ruger
416 ruger
450 marlin
376 steyr
Admittedly, half of these were joint ventures by companies that needed hornady’s engineers and resources. If that counts is up for debate. What’s not up for debate is the 6.5 is no1 on this list
If only someone could remake it into a viable AR-10 like platform cartridge
That would be cool
Doesn’t the .277 fury answer a lot of these problems
@@jbcaptain11 Yes it does
Another reason: AR10s were never offered for it, but
it has better ballistics than other calibers with a COAL that fits an AR10.
I think the proof that it would have been more successful if released today lies in the amount of disappointment in the market when everyone found out the 7 PRC was gonna be a long action. A bunch of people were hoping for something more like the 6.5 PRC with a bigger bullet.
I'm on the opposite end with the 7mm PRC... I wanted it to be a magnum action. Basically a 300 PRC necked down to 7mm.
@@ReloadingWeatherby oh I gotcha. I like where it fits on the spectrum. Right between the 7 rem mag and 28 Nosler. But I just heard a lot of people clamoring for the short action.
But it already existed. It’s called the 6.8 western.
@@eriknowak8662you’re mostly right. Unfortunately the 6.8 has not taken off and Browning has set it up to fail going forward
6.5 wsm!
7mm wsm 162 eldx 3150 fps . Try that with a 7 rem nag
My friend gets 3080 FPS in his 7mm Rem mag with a 180 gr ELD-M.
These case should never have been designed to be in a short action they need to be in a long action and bullets need/should be seated as long as possible then they are literally outstanding rounds
Agree, I chambered a new barrel so I can sit a 140 to 170 gr bullet in the neck it freed up the case for more powder. very happy with the results out to 1 km.
@@Muschka01 I've done it to my 300wsm so I can seat 210 Berger's way out
@Mark Luxford hey mate I'm located in Australia I bought a cheetah barrel a local company f class barrel and have an overall case length of 3.2 inches in a 1 in 9 twist to shoot 210gr plus bullets.. give it a go mate you won't be disappointed
@@bradleytyrrell4417 I am based in Brisbane and will search the barrel manufacturer here in Aus. Just bought an Oryx chassis to fit a Tika T3 action in 270 WSM. All I need is the barrel in 300 WSM Cheers
@@Muschka01 hey mate cheetah barrels is a company based in Goulburn he's alled cono firearms an face book
What book is that?
Hornady reloading manual
@@ReloadingWeatherby thank you very much.
The 325wsm is the best of the wsms buy ffa
i cant find any ammo for mine
That sucks
I don't think it's short at all it's the same length as a 308 Aldi's bullets its marketing and presentation and the time it hits it's buyers and society
Here’s why: 7MM Rem Magnum.
Yep
@@ReloadingWeatherby And that’s not a negative comment toward the 7MM WSM…I’ve seen a couple of big mule deer and a nice bull elk fall to 160 Accubonds from this cartridge.
The WSM's failed because Winchester copied the Lazzaroni cartridges and were being sued. Therefore, production stopped and support and marketing ceased.
Ahh yes, the worthless short mag!, I prefer a beltless magnum, went to 28 Nosler.
Ouch.... that's harsh
But yet elk, mule deer, and pronghorn have died to all three. I want a worthless cartridge that creates the same outcomes.
Ah, my .270 is awesome. Although my 6.5-300 is probably better. Lol
It is
@@ReloadingWeatherby lol, that comment was supposed to go on the Elmer Fudd cartridges.