Thank you both. I'm a regular viewer of yours Rick and this was probably the best interview I've watched on your site. CC's divinely human and a gypsy! Inspirational.
Acid experience at 6:30. Dog experience at 8:30. Dark Night Experience at 11:00. Channeling at 12:00. Hopelessness at 20:00. Knowing experience at 26:00.Time in the wilderness at 31:00. What is enlightenment at 41:00. Waking down at 49:30. Adi Da at 53:00. Adrew Cohen at 55:00. Description of CC's book at 1:01:00. Dark Night again at 1:14:50. Human attraction at 1:22:00. Core wound at 1:27:00. Green lighting at 1:35:00. In-seeing at 1:38:00. Gazing at 1:48:00. What is wrong with duality at 1:52:00. Using relationship for integration at 1:58:00.
This is very interesting Interview.I went through lot of same things what she went true in my life.Then something wonderful happen to me when one evening TWO ORBS came my room.This wake me up and i start interesting Spiritual things listen to spiritual videos and it was very helpful for me. Thank you so much.
To get complete understanding of an event, thing, person, experience or thought and to determine if it is good or bad, look at it from all possible angles, all possible viewpoints and then see what picture emerges. If your viewpoints are limited, your understanding too is likely to be limited. 1. The viewpoint of everyone having complete, real, independent choice. 2. The viewpoints of things are completely interdependent and interrelated. 3. No one has a real, true, free choice perspective. 4. Things and events are predetermined perspective. 5. What happened is the best thing that could have happened perspective. 6. “Everything happens for good” perspective. 7. "The real effect of anything is truly known after a long, long time" perspective. 8. The “I can't truly know” perspective. 9. "It is not really my job to judge and have an opinion on it" perspective. 10. Things run fine even when I sleep perspective. 11. “What is my duty right at this moment” perspective. 12. God is the only true decider, controller, orchestrator of what happens, only one with true knowledge and only real judge. Once you have looked at it, from all available logical perspectives, look at it without thinking. Unless you have looked at it from all possible logical viewpoints and then from the point of not thinking... ...your seeing of it is not complete and, as a result, your understanding of it too is likely not complete. The true picture emerges only after you have looked at it from all available logical angles - and, then, look at it without any opinion, any concept, any expectation, any pre conceived notions... ...without any thoughts.
A *1.7 on the new -3 to +3 scale. Disclaimers at the end of the comment.* Lovely authentic lady interviewed well, no original cosmological contributions = 2.0 . Subtractions for too much weight on "waking down" (beginning in the second hour) and not enough on her own experience of awakening. For instance I was waiting for the story mentioned in the info box: _"in 1989 when she had a startling vision of a star appearing near the ceiling of her bedroom and streaming forth a download. The message..."_ but I can't remember hearing that fleshed out. *Man, this stuff is what we are listening for ! Why do we not get to hear it ? Instead we hear endlessly about the n-th system of some spiritual therapy or some communion with their boring rules and a book published.* Also, a bit wondering about the 1987 new age thingy. All in all subtractions of 0.4. Lovely gazing session: + 0.1 . 2.0 - 0.4 + 0.1 = 1.7. Unrelated: 33:37 wife appears ! Right ? _About the rating: anything below and including 0 means by and large a waste of time, and anything below 0 is not only worthless but damaging to the world. For comparison, on that scale, Francis Bennett would be a +2 or more and Harri Aalto would be roughly a tentative +2 to +2.5. Not coming up with original, independent cosmological insights bans any interviewee from > 2.0 ratings as a matter of principle._ *General Disclaimer:* the rating _pertains to an interview, not to the interviewee_. If the rating is high it means merely and exclusively that I consider the interview to be of high value relative to the stated purpose of the channel, and that it is therefore no waste of time to listen to the interview. It would _not_ imply that whatever the interviewee speaks is the truth (as if I was the arbiter over that) or that you should follow him/her or accept whatever that person offers. _That is particularly in need of emphasis if that would be an expensive enterprise_ !
Based on my experience, awakening doesn't solve the mystery, in fact, it greatly deepens it. You wake up to the absolute nothingness and you realize that absolutely everything is your own creation - you being nothingness in this context. It is kind of waking up from a dream - you realize that absolutely everything you saw in your dream - snake, flower, angel, beautiful woman and yourself - were your own creations. In your dream, at least you had an idea of "who you were" - you were that man greatly interested in that beautiful lady you saw. On waking up, you are completely stunned. No explanation - just absolute nothingness - complete silence. You realize - it is truly "your" world - you are its creator - you being the absolute, complete nothingness. You are that which no one, no scientific instrument can find - how can you find absence?
thomas seven Did you read the message before replying? "You wake up to the absolute nothingness and you realize that absolutely everything is your own creation - _______you being nothingness in this context_______. "
In my view, the "core wound" is same as the "core error". The core error is... ..."pretending to be something I am not" and no matter what that "something" is... ...it is not the real me. I suspect everyone knows this truth in his/her heart. I suspect every child knows it too. We are all pretending to be something that we ourselves know to be completely false and because of this it hurts. With many years of persistent, pervasive social conditioning and ego formation - we kind of start believing to be the "person" that society tells us we are. But, Awakening reveals the "reality" again and show us that - we are not anything that we know, see, sense or feel - in fact, we aren't a thing at all. It takes away the the only "fake" "reality" that we believed was me - and leaves us completely blank - no id - no thing - no knowledge - nothing to hold on to. Just like the dream - it all came from absolute nothingness - and even right now - it is just absolute nothingness masquerading as things.
In a world full of persistent thinkers, to become silent is a crime. When you become silent, you hear, sense, feel THAT which is invisible as long as your attention is somewhere else - in your thoughts. To me, THIS really feels strange, weird, unbelievable and kind of scary - the immense, energized, all-pervasive bodiless presence that you can sense more intimately than your own breathing, yet, you can't really see. Too long with feeling and sensing it, you are afraid that you might be "locked away" in a mental asylum. You learn to hide it and to not discuss it with anyone fearing that you might be called insane or might be treated for many mental diseases - all completely incurable. I think kids too sense it and learn to hide it. They also run away from it because they sense... ..."they aren't supposed to feel this way".
First you chase Awakening... ...but, once you get it, it catches you, takes you over and it never leaves you. You previous "safe" self is gone forever. The previous version of "your life" is gone forever.
Hi TOA....the previous ''safe'' self might be gone forever,but the old self can re-emerge..It might not be as strong,but a lingering residue may remain. Maybe with a full blown Enlightenment ,the old Self is blown away forever. I think one may have an awakening,even a major Awakening but still be plagued by the old Self to an extent. Maybe it's just old karma working itself out. Nevertheless,that old self or persona is doomed...its days are numbered.
glenemma1 The “self” after awakening is like the milk in which a lot of lemon juice has fallen. You can still attempt to make chai with it and drink it, as you did before… ...but, now, it no longer tastes quite the same. In fact, all the old ways to consume this milk, now taste quite bad. In order to still use, now curdled milk… ...one needs to use new recipes… ...the recipes that are compatible with the curdled milk. That is the process of integration, because, the old ways now taste quite bad.
Review ===== Teacher: seemed genuine, honest and humble. Method (Waking Down): seemed ok, potentially helpful to some Message: Ok. 3 out of 5 Interview itself ========== Boring or exciting?: more on the side of being boring Insightful or "same old... same old": more on the side of "same old... ...same old" Did Rick connect?: Connected ok. No confrontation. No challenge. Didn't seem too deep a connection.
brazfan Yes. Everything is money. Spirituality has been prostituted in the west into a business venture. I read a book on Waking Down based on people's experiences in awakening. They all seemed obsessed with relationships and sex more than enlightenment. I thought some of them were weird. I like the idea of embodiment and found it useful when, after enlightenment, I became detached from everything, lost all sense of purpose and life became utterly meaningless and I became depressed with the total Nothingness of existence; there I was infinite and beyond everything, yet with the personality in the dark night of the soul while the spiritual part of me was experienced as total freedom without limits or borders.So I decided what I needed to do was sit in the body, meditating on each body part and also to feel the space within the body, working upwards from the toes to the head and feeling both the brain as an organ and also the emptiness within the skull; and within a few days I started feeling human again. Now I just relax into my own being and rest in my own aliveness. Whereas before I had no sense of a self and was simply stillness and inner silence, now I do have a slight sense of the personality, though it is extremely subtle: it is just a bare I Am, I exist, I am just Pure Existence and unmodified conciousness. Whereas before I just saw myself as formless and abstract, now I see how precious this body is and how important the personality is for functioning on this concrete level of experience. So you see enlightenment can have its own problems, and I am not talking even about mere awakening. But have you ever heard any satsang teacher talking about this? But then the majority of satsang teachers are just awakened - they are not enlightened. Most, in my opinion, are not qualified to teach, and I base this statement on over 60 years studying this subject. I don't think much of satsangs and their quick-fix teachings.
Once one clearly sees that one is absolute nothingness - everything starts appearing stunning, magical, unbelievable, precious and invaluable. Flying birds are magical. The blue sky in which they fly is stunning. The mountains are stunning. The flikering green leaves are magical. One's own body starts appearing alien, unbelievable and stunning. One finds it stunning that one can move it simply desiring to do so. One starts valuing and respecting things in a very different way. What a magical step for the absolute nothingness to become... ...things... ...even more magical is that... ...in spite of all these manifestation... ...it still remains absolute nothingness.
Waking up... ...one feels... ...oneself to be the absolute emptiness... ...infused with immense moving energy... Scientists say.. ...everything is the absolute emptiness... ...infused with immense moving energy... When one looks inside one can't find anything other than... ...the absolute emptiness and immense energy... ...on opening one's eyes... ...one is stunned to see mountains, flowers, birds, trees... ...how can just emptiness and energy be all these things... ...when looking inside the brain... ...all scientists find is electric signals... ...how does electric signals become red, white, green and blue... ...mountains, flowers, trees... ...is a mystery...
Scientists say all that is happening inside the brain is the electric signals. All that one feels inside is energy. Yet... ....once one eat a good chocolate... ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals... ....once one eat smell a fragrant flower... ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals... ....once one sees a beautiful sunset.. ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals... ....once one listens great music... ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals... One is stunned... ...logic gives us... ...reason gives up... It seem that absolutely everything is Magic. Absolutely everything is a miracle. ...And, only right response is... ...Bowing Down... ...Admiration, Awe, Astonishment, gratitude and reverence... There is no way one can repay it. IT is absolutely Magical!
One is already in the middle of a dream and this dream is Real! If one still attempts to rely solely on the logic and reason - one is bound to become very confused. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. Bowing down, reverence, gratitude, love, joy, dance, music, awe, appreciation seem the only correct response. Perhaps, there was a reason the God gave us love, reverence, awe and wonder before he gave us logic and reason.
What really exists... ...can't possibly die. It makes no sense whatsoever. What really exists... exists absolutely and it can't possibly not exist. Because of this, nothing is ever really threatened. What really exists... exists absolutely. However, what truly exists... ...exists... ...beyond existing and existing... What we see as existing... ...is just a temporary appearance and because of being an appearance... ...it is subject to the supporting conditions. Little change in the conditions and it will die or change because it is nothing but a delicate arrangement of conditions. When conditions change... ..so does that which appear to exist. ...and, because of this realization... ...we start deeply caring for... ...what appears to exist... ...and, its operating conditions... ...like the soap bubbles floating in the air and brilliantly reflecting sun light in the rainbow of colors... ...what appears to exist... ...is temporary and subject to change... ...but, like the floating soap bubbles... ...it is Absolutely Magical!
I am up to 1h .31mins. in this video....she seems okay. I tend to agree with advaita2's comment about the commonality of experiences. We all have all kinds of experiences,some wonderful,others tragic etc. Do we have to become spiritual businessmen and women because of them. Around the 1h.25m mark she speaks of embodiment of energy (kundalini I think she is talking about),which leads to an opening of the heart and opening to others. She explained that this can spill over into a relationship....''in my case a powerful relationship with Michael''. We ordinary people just have a rleationship,but these spiritual people have ''powerful''relationships. I sometimes wonder about this spiritual stuff and how much it is just a feeding of the ego.
The spiritual person can't be a dog walker or trainer, they're 'a dog whisperer ' , bringing their subtle capacities to seeing the animals inner being and shit like that. Why is it that ordinary unenlightened folks can do incredible things, create beauty of all kinds, and it's ordinary. Let a 'spiritual' person do mundane stuff and all of a sudden it's super natural or something. Gimme a break. 'Spiritual' business people are business people,. I'm more and more convinced that the truly spiritual stay away from soapboxes and just go about living, giving, creating. What happened to humility as a spiritual value and quality? Are we too sophisticated ? These vids are a reflection of our culture. This is what spiritual looks like in modern, rich mostly American's lives. Skype 'satsangs' , retreats at luxury hotels, expensive energy treatments and wierd shit. The truly alive and inspired are rarely found in American spiritual circles. I'm sticking with the artists, martial artists, musicians, athletes, creatives of any and all kinds. A lot more interesting.
brazfan You summed it up so well,brazfan. Opening up to Reality is everyone's dharma(so to speak) and there is no particular way this should look. There is nothing which is not spiritual (or nothing is spiritual) and those who just get on with it without worrying about being ''spiritual'' are the truly spiritual.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Good point. I suggest it has something to do with hypnosis. Some of these fraudulent spiritual leaders have the power to cloud the minds of their followers so that they are effectively spellbound. It is sometimes easier to see this from a distance. Just look at how many people fell under the Rajneesh/Osho spell.
Few souls are looking for awakening to the truth with great intensity. With an intensity much greater, the Reality is seeking fit souls to awaken. A soul which is not truly ready, if awakened, can easily end up vastly more confused and can potentially end up in a mental asylum. A soul which doesn’t have confidence in itself, is not ready to risk walking alone, is not ready to fully trust his/her own inner Self and always looks to others for answers and confirmations, can in fact, become full of doubts and can start doubting his own awakening. A soul who is only looking for power, fame and name is ready to exploit all to meet his/her need, can become exploitive and can use his/her own awakening to harm others. It is only a soul, which is fully ready to surrender all his/her ideas, opinions, wishes, will, judgments and demands and is truly ready to serve the creation, unfolding, love and jnana is true ready to receive. And, it is very hard for most self-centered humans. Very few seekers truly believe that true awakening is the end of the self for which they are seeking. In a way, it is like committing self-suicide. It is like standing on the railway track of the Grace, wishing for the Grace to come like a fast train and kill the self. Very few seekers truly believe that the self, the soul they are seeking for doesn’t truly exist. Very few seekers truly believe in the Absolute Complete Nothingness of all that exists. Very few are ready to perceive it as a beautiful, delicate, unfolding “real” dream… ...devoid of all substance. Only true seekers are those who are fully willing to serve and are complete ready to lose all of themselves.
And, the first thing one has to be willing to complete lose is... ...(false) "knowledge... ...ideas, opinions, concepts, beliefs, ..."what that guru said", "what was written in that book".. ...if you hold on to any of those... ...you are screwed... ...in fact, "we" are screwed because we are ALL IN IT together.
Remember... ...Awakening is "FROM" you and NOT "for" you. So, if it is not "for you"... ...whom it is for? ...The Only ONE that does exist. You are its ignorant, "unwilling" servant now, are you willing to become its Awake, Knowledgeable, Wise and "fully willing" Servant?
Several Advaita teachers have always spoken about the embodiment and alignment of ones realization of the Self or pure Awareness. Rupert Spira speaks beautifully about it here: ruclips.net/video/TLvjARsbBAI/видео.html
Very few things can be truly understood through logic and reasoning. Beauty, music, love, awe, wonder none of these could be truly understood through logic and the Reality is much, much bigger. Awakening awakens you to that vast Reality which is not only beyond logic, it is also beyond imagination. Awe, wonder, reverence and surrender is the correct response - logic and reason are not. Logic and reason fail even to explain much simpler things like taste, beauty and music. That’s why even great logicians like Shankara learn and become Bhaktas singing praises of the Reality. Even Ramana sings hymns of Arunachala. Even Nisargadatta prays. If one solely relies on logic to understand the Reality or Awakening, a great confusion is a very likely result. Prayer, song, music, poetry, dance, surrender, awe and wonder is the right response - logic is not. Logic is too limited and too blunt.
The story of me is the cigarette you are addicted to, suffering is the smoke coming out of it. Most children are born without this cigarette… ...this “story of me”. They are also born without memory. Both of these mean that most little children, like most animals and plants are quite free of any long-term suffering. However, the society is built by the “me’s”, and, is controlled, managed, run and judged be “me’s”. The “me” is the knob using which the society can truly control, manage individuals. As the child starts growing, the society as parents, teachers, priests, friends and especially foes start forcing this cigarette, this “story of me” to the child. In few years of persistent forcing and offering, most children are completely addicted to this cigarette, this story of me and have started suffering because of it. Each time they suffer, society tells them that it is all their fault and asks them to start smoking differently and or to start speaking another brand of cigarette. The society sells these different brand that as self help books and courses and in some cases as a different religion. Few wake up out of this complete dependence on this cigarette and see their pristine clear reality without the smoke of this cigarette. Seeing this, they also realize that the smoke, the suffering is intimately related to the cigarette, the story of me. They can’t truly give up the smoke, the suffering and keep smoking the cigarette. Changing the brand of the cigarette, or adding adding mint or raspberry flavor to it makes little difference. No matter, how hard it is to truly give up smoking (suffering), they have to give up the cigarette - the story of me - changing the brand, flavor or color of the cigarette is not enough.
The Awakening when it happens… ...takes away the cigarette, the story of me… leaves one with the perfect pristine clarity and without anything to hold on to. It reveals that all “holding on”s are the prison cells. One gives up the cigarette, the story of me, at least momentarily, and experience the clarity, freshness, aliveness twhichhat is present when the cigarette of the story of me is not being smoked.However, the vast majority of the society are completely addicted to and dependent on this cigarette are unable to imagine or accept the possibility that anyone can live without smoking the story of me. They knowingly and unknowingly, attempt to offer or force this cigarette, this story of me again. Some of them ask “what brand of cigarettes you are smoking now”, “what flavor of cigarettes you are smoking”, others say “you are smoking the cigarette, but, you are unable to see it, I can see it and I can tell you the brand of cigarette you are smoking”. Few others are far more determined, persistent, sure and aggressive, they unconsciously attack and attempt to force this cigarette in any way possible - “I for sure know you are smoking”, “your cigarette smells bad”, “your cigarette is not good, I demand you to change it”, “I demand that you smoke the brand I smoke”, “I demand that you smoke the brand and flavor that I approve of”. Being dead sure of their knowledge and their assumption of “everyone has to be exactly like me - there is no other possibility”, they attack and attack. Once one give up in the face of their relentless attack - one is back to smoking - back to smoking the cigarette - smoking the “story of m” again.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) TOA, your comments sounds like regurgitated Byron Katie and a hundred other teachers of dissociative spirituality. It's a platitude in dissociative spiritual settings that the "story of me" is a central cause of suffering. That is not my experience. The "story of me" is the story of each rich and beautiful life. Every story has pain and suffering in it along with everything else. My experience is that "the story of me" told to a skilled, honest, kind, empathic therapist, told with vulnerability and honesty and the willingness to feel everything, might actually be a path to healing and integration and wellness. Further, my experience is that most of these teachers of spiritual dissociation have a "story of me" that they tell over and over to adoring audiences, a story which pays all their bills so they can continue to hold their expensive retreats and eat their fine foods. My experience is that the spiritual teachers who most demean the ego are the most invested and attached in their own idea of who they are. Offering your experience (if it is really your experience and not something you read about and then tried to fit your experience into) as an ultimate truth is alienating. I tried to fit the round peg of my life into the square hole of those kind of teachings for many years before I woke up and realized that didn't resonate with any of that and I was better off to stop listening to people who wanted to tell me how things are and tune into my own experience and find my own way. I'm so grateful for that awareness. I still get a little nauseous when I come across some spiritual teacher telling everyone "how it is." I listened in to this particular interview because I respect CC Leigh and the Waking Down people. In my experience they don't tell you how it is. They ask "how is it for you?" I feel like that's a quantum leap forward in the world of so-called "non-dual" spirituality.
makemerry Thanks, MakeMerry! That is possible. What is your experience? Do you ever suffer? If yes, do you ever suffer without a story of me? How do yo suffer without a story of me?
makemerry It is indeed possible that my thinking is greatly influenced by Byron Katie's. It is also possible that Byron Katie's thinking is influenced by ACIM and ACIM by Bhagavad Gita.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) And I should add that in the Waking Down settings I've been in, the questions are real, they're not leading questions designed to show the superiority of the questioners viewpoint. Questions seem to come more from the heart than from the head, they're deeply respectful, they are not asked with a particular destination in mind, every answer is honored, ... very unlike my experience with Byron Katie and many other non-dual spiritual teachers I've encountered. Yes, I've suffered without a story of me, and no I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain how that happened to you. It appears that you feel you already have the ultimate perspective on things.
Analyze your life right now - as it appears right now in this moment - as it flows right now in this moment - as you feel it right in this moment. Analysis of past is largely false. You can't truly analyze the thoughts and actions of a drunk man when he is completely sober. You can't truly analyze the thoughts and actions of the drugged man after the affect of the drug is completely gone. You can't truly analyze the thoughts and actions of an angry man after the anger has completely passed. You can't truly analyze the thoughts, feeling and actions of a fearful man after the fear has passed or a lustful man after the lust has passed. A lot of thoughts, feelings and actions are driven by the emotions - or, hormones - and, like alcohol or drugs - a man under their influence is not exactly same as the man without them. Therefore, only real time to analyze the thoughts, feeling and actions of man under emotions, feelings, hormones is when one is having them.
CC Leigh and a simple incorrect ''scientific'' analogy. 1:11:40 --- CC Leigh: It's like running higher voltage through a thin wires and a thin wires just can't handle that... --- Rick: yeah... Analogies vs science: This statement is not correct since you have to take in this case another more accurate electrical variable. A thin wire can stand high voltages. This is a basic electrical concept/law. Other speakers tend to impress their audience with inappropriate scientific studies, super fields, quantum physics, parallel dimensions analogies... Too often, those speakers, nourishing the audience's fantasies, do not have the necessary scientific background and the audience is not vigilant enough to verify the validity of their ''scientific'' analogies. 1:12:00 ---CC Leigh: ''It's an opportunity for our wiring to catch up. And then the next time we get to run a little bit more voltage through the system''. --- Rick: yeah, I think it's very important, I mean, obviously... The voltage does not go through a circuit. I wanted to point out that a simple scientific/electrical analogy here is not used properly. Thank you for sharing your personnal experiences.
Rick, I really enjoy when you show us your (and guest's) cats and dogs. Definitely adds to the experience. Thank you.
Thanx Mrs.Doubtfire :) !
Thank you both. I'm a regular viewer of yours Rick and this was probably the best interview I've watched on your site. CC's divinely human and a gypsy! Inspirational.
I think this may have been the best Batgap interview I have seen to date.
Acid experience at 6:30. Dog experience at 8:30. Dark Night Experience at 11:00. Channeling at 12:00. Hopelessness at 20:00. Knowing experience at 26:00.Time in the wilderness at 31:00. What is enlightenment at 41:00. Waking down at 49:30. Adi Da at 53:00. Adrew Cohen at 55:00. Description of CC's book at 1:01:00. Dark Night again at 1:14:50. Human attraction at 1:22:00. Core wound at 1:27:00. Green lighting at 1:35:00. In-seeing at 1:38:00. Gazing at 1:48:00. What is wrong with duality at 1:52:00. Using relationship for integration at 1:58:00.
This is very interesting Interview.I went through lot of same things what she went true in my life.Then something wonderful happen to me when one evening TWO ORBS came my room.This wake me up and i start interesting Spiritual things listen to spiritual videos and it was very helpful for me. Thank you so much.
A nice interview. It is nice to see you bringing it into zip code reality.
Love those dogs!!!
Audio video sync issue in the video. Watch it at 37:00.
To get complete understanding of an event, thing, person, experience or thought and to determine if it is good or bad, look at it from all possible angles, all possible viewpoints and then see what picture emerges. If your viewpoints are limited, your understanding too is likely to be limited.
1. The viewpoint of everyone having complete, real, independent choice.
2. The viewpoints of things are completely interdependent and interrelated.
3. No one has a real, true, free choice perspective.
4. Things and events are predetermined perspective.
5. What happened is the best thing that could have happened perspective.
6. “Everything happens for good” perspective.
7. "The real effect of anything is truly known after a long, long time" perspective.
8. The “I can't truly know” perspective.
9. "It is not really my job to judge and have an opinion on it" perspective.
10. Things run fine even when I sleep perspective.
11. “What is my duty right at this moment” perspective.
12. God is the only true decider, controller, orchestrator of what happens, only one with true knowledge and only real judge.
Once you have looked at it, from all available logical perspectives, look at it without thinking.
Unless you have looked at it from all possible logical viewpoints and then from the point of not thinking... ...your seeing of it is not complete and, as a result, your understanding of it too is likely not complete.
The true picture emerges only after you have looked at it from all available logical angles - and, then, look at it without any opinion, any concept, any expectation, any pre conceived notions... ...without any thoughts.
I love Luna the dog! :)
A *1.7 on the new -3 to +3 scale. Disclaimers at the end of the comment.*
Lovely authentic lady interviewed well, no original cosmological contributions = 2.0 . Subtractions for too much weight on "waking down" (beginning in the second hour) and not enough on her own experience of awakening. For instance I was waiting for the story mentioned in the info box: _"in 1989 when she had a startling vision of a star appearing near the ceiling of her bedroom and streaming forth a download. The message..."_ but I can't remember hearing that fleshed out. *Man, this stuff is what we are listening for ! Why do we not get to hear it ? Instead we hear endlessly about the n-th system of some spiritual therapy or some communion with their boring rules and a book published.* Also, a bit wondering about the 1987 new age thingy. All in all subtractions of 0.4.
Lovely gazing session: + 0.1 .
2.0 - 0.4 + 0.1 = 1.7.
Unrelated: 33:37 wife appears ! Right ?
_About the rating: anything below and including 0 means by and large a waste of time, and anything below 0 is not only worthless but damaging to the world. For comparison, on that scale, Francis Bennett would be a +2 or more and Harri Aalto would be roughly a tentative +2 to +2.5. Not coming up with original, independent cosmological insights bans any interviewee from > 2.0 ratings as a matter of principle._
*General Disclaimer:* the rating _pertains to an interview, not to the interviewee_. If the rating is high it means merely and exclusively that I consider the interview to be of high value relative to the stated purpose of the channel, and that it is therefore no waste of time to listen to the interview. It would _not_ imply that whatever the interviewee speaks is the truth (as if I was the arbiter over that) or that you should follow him/her or accept whatever that person offers. _That is particularly in need of emphasis if that would be an expensive enterprise_ !
Based on my experience, awakening doesn't solve the mystery, in fact, it greatly deepens it. You wake up to the absolute nothingness and you realize that absolutely everything is your own creation - you being nothingness in this context.
It is kind of waking up from a dream - you realize that absolutely everything you saw in your dream - snake, flower, angel, beautiful woman and yourself - were your own creations.
In your dream, at least you had an idea of "who you were" - you were that man greatly interested in that beautiful lady you saw. On waking up, you are completely stunned. No explanation - just absolute nothingness - complete silence. You realize - it is truly "your" world - you are its creator - you being the absolute, complete nothingness. You are that which no one, no scientific instrument can find - how can you find absence?
thomas seven Did you read the message before replying? "You wake up to the absolute nothingness and you realize that absolutely everything is your own creation - _______you being nothingness in this context_______. "
In my view, the "core wound" is same as the "core error". The core error is... ..."pretending to be something I am not" and no matter what that "something" is... ...it is not the real me.
I suspect everyone knows this truth in his/her heart. I suspect every child knows it too. We are all pretending to be something that we ourselves know to be completely false and because of this it hurts.
With many years of persistent, pervasive social conditioning and ego formation - we kind of start believing to be the "person" that society tells us we are. But, Awakening reveals the "reality" again and show us that - we are not anything that we know, see, sense or feel - in fact, we aren't a thing at all. It takes away the the only "fake" "reality" that we believed was me - and leaves us completely blank - no id - no thing - no knowledge - nothing to hold on to.
Just like the dream - it all came from absolute nothingness - and even right now - it is just absolute nothingness masquerading as things.
In a world full of persistent thinkers, to become silent is a crime. When you become silent, you hear, sense, feel THAT which is invisible as long as your attention is somewhere else - in your thoughts.
To me, THIS really feels strange, weird, unbelievable and kind of scary - the immense, energized, all-pervasive bodiless presence that you can sense more intimately than your own breathing, yet, you can't really see.
Too long with feeling and sensing it, you are afraid that you might be "locked away" in a mental asylum. You learn to hide it and to not discuss it with anyone fearing that you might be called insane or might be treated for many mental diseases - all completely incurable.
I think kids too sense it and learn to hide it. They also run away from it because they sense... ..."they aren't supposed to feel this way".
First you chase Awakening... ...but, once you get it, it catches you, takes you over and it never leaves you. You previous "safe" self is gone forever. The previous version of "your life" is gone forever.
Hi TOA....the previous ''safe'' self might be gone forever,but the old self can re-emerge..It might not be as strong,but a lingering residue may remain. Maybe with a full blown Enlightenment ,the old Self is blown away forever.
I think one may have an awakening,even a major Awakening but still be plagued by the old Self to an extent. Maybe it's just old karma working itself out. Nevertheless,that old self or persona is doomed...its days are numbered.
glenemma1 The “self” after awakening is like the milk in which a lot of lemon juice has fallen. You can still attempt to make chai with it and drink it, as you did before… ...but, now, it no longer tastes quite the same. In fact, all the old ways to consume this milk, now taste quite bad.
In order to still use, now curdled milk… ...one needs to use new recipes… ...the recipes that are compatible with the curdled milk. That is the process of integration, because, the old ways now taste quite bad.
Review
=====
Teacher: seemed genuine, honest and humble.
Method (Waking Down): seemed ok, potentially helpful to some
Message: Ok. 3 out of 5
Interview itself
==========
Boring or exciting?: more on the side of being boring
Insightful or "same old... same old": more on the side of "same old... ...same old"
Did Rick connect?: Connected ok. No confrontation. No challenge. Didn't seem too deep a connection.
brazfan
Yes. Everything is money. Spirituality has been prostituted in the west into a business venture. I read a book on Waking Down based on people's experiences in awakening. They all seemed obsessed with relationships and sex more than enlightenment. I thought some of them were weird. I like the idea of embodiment and found it useful when, after enlightenment, I became detached from everything, lost all sense of purpose and life became utterly meaningless and I became depressed with the total Nothingness of existence; there I was infinite and beyond everything, yet with the personality in the dark night of the soul while the spiritual part of me was experienced as total freedom without limits or borders.So I decided what I needed to do was sit in the body, meditating on each body part and also to feel the space within the body, working upwards from the toes to the head and feeling both the brain as an organ and also the emptiness within the skull; and within a few days I started feeling human again. Now I just relax into my own being and rest in my own aliveness. Whereas before I had no sense of a self and was simply stillness and inner silence, now I do have a slight sense of the personality, though it is extremely subtle: it is just a bare I Am, I exist, I am just Pure Existence and unmodified conciousness. Whereas before I just saw myself as formless and abstract, now I see how precious this body is and how important the personality is for functioning on this concrete level of experience. So you see enlightenment can have its own problems, and I am not talking even about mere awakening. But have you ever heard any satsang teacher talking about this? But then the majority of satsang teachers are just awakened - they are not enlightened. Most, in my opinion, are not qualified to teach, and I base this statement on over 60 years studying this subject. I don't think much of satsangs and their quick-fix teachings.
Once one clearly sees that one is absolute nothingness - everything starts appearing stunning, magical, unbelievable, precious and invaluable.
Flying birds are magical.
The blue sky in which they fly is stunning.
The mountains are stunning.
The flikering green leaves are magical.
One's own body starts appearing alien, unbelievable and stunning. One finds it stunning that one can move it simply desiring to do so.
One starts valuing and respecting things in a very different way.
What a magical step for the absolute nothingness to become... ...things... ...even more magical is that... ...in spite of all these manifestation... ...it still remains absolute nothingness.
Waking up... ...one feels... ...oneself to be the absolute emptiness... ...infused with immense moving energy...
Scientists say.. ...everything is the absolute emptiness... ...infused with immense moving energy...
When one looks inside one can't find anything other than... ...the absolute emptiness and immense energy...
...on opening one's eyes... ...one is stunned to see mountains, flowers, birds, trees... ...how can just emptiness and energy be all these things...
...when looking inside the brain... ...all scientists find is electric signals... ...how does electric signals become red, white, green and blue... ...mountains, flowers, trees... ...is a mystery...
Scientists say all that is happening inside the brain is the electric signals. All that one feels inside is energy.
Yet...
....once one eat a good chocolate... ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals...
....once one eat smell a fragrant flower... ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals...
....once one sees a beautiful sunset.. ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals...
....once one listens great music... ...it is hard to believe and reason that it just electric signals...
One is stunned... ...logic gives us... ...reason gives up...
It seem that absolutely everything is Magic. Absolutely everything is a miracle.
...And, only right response is... ...Bowing Down... ...Admiration, Awe, Astonishment, gratitude and reverence...
There is no way one can repay it. IT is absolutely Magical!
One is already in the middle of a dream and this dream is Real!
If one still attempts to rely solely on the logic and reason - one is bound to become very confused. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. Bowing down, reverence, gratitude, love, joy, dance, music, awe, appreciation seem the only correct response.
Perhaps, there was a reason the God gave us love, reverence, awe and wonder before he gave us logic and reason.
What really exists... ...can't possibly die.
It makes no sense whatsoever.
What really exists... exists absolutely and it can't possibly not exist.
Because of this, nothing is ever really threatened. What really exists... exists absolutely.
However, what truly exists... ...exists... ...beyond existing and existing...
What we see as existing... ...is just a temporary appearance and because of being an appearance... ...it is subject to the supporting conditions. Little change in the conditions and it will die or change because it is nothing but a delicate arrangement of conditions. When conditions change... ..so does that which appear to exist.
...and, because of this realization... ...we start deeply caring for... ...what appears to exist... ...and, its operating conditions...
...like the soap bubbles floating in the air and brilliantly reflecting sun light in the rainbow of colors...
...what appears to exist... ...is temporary and subject to change... ...but, like the floating soap bubbles... ...it is Absolutely Magical!
I am up to 1h .31mins. in this video....she seems okay. I tend to agree with advaita2's comment about the commonality of experiences. We all have all kinds of experiences,some wonderful,others tragic etc. Do we have to become spiritual businessmen and women because of them.
Around the 1h.25m mark she speaks of embodiment of energy (kundalini I think she is talking about),which leads to an opening of the heart and opening to others. She explained that this can spill over into a relationship....''in my case a powerful relationship with Michael''. We ordinary people just have a rleationship,but these spiritual people have ''powerful''relationships. I sometimes wonder about this spiritual stuff and how much it is just a feeding of the ego.
The spiritual person can't be a dog walker or trainer, they're 'a dog whisperer ' , bringing their subtle capacities to seeing the animals inner being and shit like that. Why is it that ordinary unenlightened folks can do incredible things, create beauty of all kinds, and it's ordinary. Let a 'spiritual' person do mundane
stuff and all of a sudden it's super natural or something. Gimme a break. 'Spiritual' business people are business people,. I'm more and more convinced that the truly spiritual stay away from soapboxes and just go about living, giving, creating. What happened to humility as a spiritual value and quality? Are we too sophisticated ? These vids are a reflection of our culture. This is what spiritual looks like in modern, rich mostly American's lives. Skype 'satsangs' , retreats at luxury hotels, expensive energy treatments and wierd shit. The truly alive and inspired are rarely found in American spiritual circles. I'm sticking with the artists, martial artists, musicians, athletes, creatives of any and all kinds. A lot more interesting.
brazfan You summed it up so well,brazfan.
Opening up to Reality is everyone's dharma(so to speak) and there is no particular way this should look.
There is nothing which is not spiritual (or nothing is spiritual) and those who just get on with it without worrying about being ''spiritual'' are the truly spiritual.
How can it take one 18 years to find out that it is not a good idea to promote and support Adi Da?
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Good point. I suggest it has something to do with hypnosis. Some of these fraudulent spiritual leaders have the power to cloud the minds of their followers so that they are effectively spellbound. It is sometimes easier to see this from a distance. Just look at how many people fell under the Rajneesh/Osho spell.
Few souls are looking for awakening to the truth with great intensity. With an intensity much greater, the Reality is seeking fit souls to awaken. A soul which is not truly ready, if awakened, can easily end up vastly more confused and can potentially end up in a mental asylum. A soul which doesn’t have confidence in itself, is not ready to risk walking alone, is not ready to fully trust his/her own inner Self and always looks to others for answers and confirmations, can in fact, become full of doubts and can start doubting his own awakening. A soul who is only looking for power, fame and name is ready to exploit all to meet his/her need, can become exploitive and can use his/her own awakening to harm others.
It is only a soul, which is fully ready to surrender all his/her ideas, opinions, wishes, will, judgments and demands and is truly ready to serve the creation, unfolding, love and jnana is true ready to receive. And, it is very hard for most self-centered humans.
Very few seekers truly believe that true awakening is the end of the self for which they are seeking. In a way, it is like committing self-suicide. It is like standing on the railway track of the Grace, wishing for the Grace to come like a fast train and kill the self.
Very few seekers truly believe that the self, the soul they are seeking for doesn’t truly exist.
Very few seekers truly believe in the Absolute Complete Nothingness of all that exists.
Very few are ready to perceive it as a beautiful, delicate, unfolding “real” dream… ...devoid of all substance.
Only true seekers are those who are fully willing to serve and are complete ready to lose all of themselves.
And, the first thing one has to be willing to complete lose is... ...(false) "knowledge... ...ideas, opinions, concepts, beliefs, ..."what that guru said", "what was written in that book".. ...if you hold on to any of those... ...you are screwed... ...in fact, "we" are screwed because we are ALL IN IT together.
Remember... ...Awakening is "FROM" you and NOT "for" you.
So, if it is not "for you"... ...whom it is for?
...The Only ONE that does exist. You are its ignorant, "unwilling" servant now, are you willing to become its Awake, Knowledgeable, Wise and "fully willing" Servant?
Several Advaita teachers have always spoken about the embodiment and alignment of ones realization of the Self or pure Awareness. Rupert Spira speaks beautifully about it here: ruclips.net/video/TLvjARsbBAI/видео.html
Rick, you need some coffee? This is the sleepiest interview yet. I think it's the WDM.
Very few things can be truly understood through logic and reasoning. Beauty, music, love, awe, wonder none of these could be truly understood through logic and the Reality is much, much bigger. Awakening awakens you to that vast Reality which is not only beyond logic, it is also beyond imagination. Awe, wonder, reverence and surrender is the correct response - logic and reason are not.
Logic and reason fail even to explain much simpler things like taste, beauty and music. That’s why even great logicians like Shankara learn and become Bhaktas singing praises of the Reality. Even Ramana sings hymns of Arunachala. Even Nisargadatta prays.
If one solely relies on logic to understand the Reality or Awakening, a great confusion is a very likely result. Prayer, song, music, poetry, dance, surrender, awe and wonder is the right response - logic is not. Logic is too limited and too blunt.
*The 8th BATJOKE of the week*
*“No joke!”*
No joke!
That’s the joke.
Being too long, the rest is available in
sites.google.com/site/smilingalicea/
The story of me is the cigarette you are addicted to, suffering is the smoke coming out of it.
Most children are born without this cigarette… ...this “story of me”. They are also born without memory. Both of these mean that most little children, like most animals and plants are quite free of any long-term suffering.
However, the society is built by the “me’s”, and, is controlled, managed, run and judged be “me’s”. The “me” is the knob using which the society can truly control, manage individuals. As the child starts growing, the society as parents, teachers, priests, friends and especially foes start forcing this cigarette, this “story of me” to the child.
In few years of persistent forcing and offering, most children are completely addicted to this cigarette, this story of me and have started suffering because of it. Each time they suffer, society tells them that it is all their fault and asks them to start smoking differently and or to start speaking another brand of cigarette. The society sells these different brand that as self help books and courses and in some cases as a different religion.
Few wake up out of this complete dependence on this cigarette and see their pristine clear reality without the smoke of this cigarette.
Seeing this, they also realize that the smoke, the suffering is intimately related to the cigarette, the story of me. They can’t truly give up the smoke, the suffering and keep smoking the cigarette. Changing the brand of the cigarette, or adding adding mint or raspberry flavor to it makes little difference. No matter, how hard it is to truly give up smoking (suffering), they have to give up the cigarette - the story of me - changing the brand, flavor or color of the cigarette is not enough.
The Awakening when it happens… ...takes away the cigarette, the story of me… leaves one with the perfect pristine clarity and without anything to hold on to. It reveals that all “holding on”s are the prison cells.
One gives up the cigarette, the story of me, at least momentarily, and experience the clarity, freshness, aliveness twhichhat is present when the cigarette of the story of me is not being smoked.However, the vast majority of the society are completely addicted to and dependent on this cigarette are unable to imagine or accept the possibility that anyone can live without smoking the story of me. They knowingly and unknowingly, attempt to offer or force this cigarette, this story of me again. Some of them ask “what brand of cigarettes you are smoking now”, “what flavor of cigarettes you are smoking”, others say “you are smoking the cigarette, but, you are unable to see it, I can see it and I can tell you the brand of cigarette you are smoking”.
Few others are far more determined, persistent, sure and aggressive, they unconsciously attack and attempt to force this cigarette in any way possible - “I for sure know you are smoking”, “your cigarette smells bad”, “your cigarette is not good, I demand you to change it”, “I demand that you smoke the brand I smoke”, “I demand that you smoke the brand and flavor that I approve of”. Being dead sure of their knowledge and their assumption of “everyone has to be exactly like me - there is no other possibility”, they attack and attack. Once one give up in the face of their relentless attack - one is back to smoking - back to smoking the cigarette - smoking the “story of m” again.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) TOA, your comments sounds like regurgitated Byron Katie and a hundred other teachers of dissociative spirituality. It's a platitude in dissociative spiritual settings that the "story of me" is a central cause of suffering. That is not my experience. The "story of me" is the story of each rich and beautiful life. Every story has pain and suffering in it along with everything else. My experience is that "the story of me" told to a skilled, honest, kind, empathic therapist, told with vulnerability and honesty and the willingness to feel everything, might actually be a path to healing and integration and wellness. Further, my experience is that most of these teachers of spiritual dissociation have a "story of me" that they tell over and over to adoring audiences, a story which pays all their bills so they can continue to hold their expensive retreats and eat their fine foods. My experience is that the spiritual teachers who most demean the ego are the most invested and attached in their own idea of who they are.
Offering your experience (if it is really your experience and not something you read about and then tried to fit your experience into) as an ultimate truth is alienating. I tried to fit the round peg of my life into the square hole of those kind of teachings for many years before I woke up and realized that didn't resonate with any of that and I was better off to stop listening to people who wanted to tell me how things are and tune into my own experience and find my own way. I'm so grateful for that awareness. I still get a little nauseous when I come across some spiritual teacher telling everyone "how it is." I listened in to this particular interview because I respect CC Leigh and the Waking Down people. In my experience they don't tell you how it is. They ask "how is it for you?" I feel like that's a quantum leap forward in the world of so-called "non-dual" spirituality.
makemerry Thanks, MakeMerry! That is possible. What is your experience?
Do you ever suffer? If yes, do you ever suffer without a story of me?
How do yo suffer without a story of me?
makemerry It is indeed possible that my thinking is greatly influenced by Byron Katie's. It is also possible that Byron Katie's thinking is influenced by ACIM and ACIM by Bhagavad Gita.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) And I should add that in the Waking Down settings I've been in, the questions are real, they're not leading questions designed to show the superiority of the questioners viewpoint. Questions seem to come more from the heart than from the head, they're deeply respectful, they are not asked with a particular destination in mind, every answer is honored, ... very unlike my experience with Byron Katie and many other non-dual spiritual teachers I've encountered. Yes, I've suffered without a story of me, and no I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain how that happened to you. It appears that you feel you already have the ultimate perspective on things.
Analyze your life right now - as it appears right now in this moment - as it flows right now in this moment - as you feel it right in this moment.
Analysis of past is largely false. You can't truly analyze the thoughts and actions of a drunk man when he is completely sober. You can't truly analyze the thoughts and actions of the drugged man after the affect of the drug is completely gone. You can't truly analyze the thoughts and actions of an angry man after the anger has completely passed. You can't truly analyze the thoughts, feeling and actions of a fearful man after the fear has passed or a lustful man after the lust has passed.
A lot of thoughts, feelings and actions are driven by the emotions - or, hormones - and, like alcohol or drugs - a man under their influence is not exactly same as the man without them. Therefore, only real time to analyze the thoughts, feeling and actions of man under emotions, feelings, hormones is when one is having them.
CC Leigh and a simple incorrect ''scientific'' analogy.
1:11:40 --- CC Leigh: It's like running higher voltage through a thin wires and a thin wires just can't handle that...
--- Rick: yeah...
Analogies vs science: This statement is not correct since you have to take in this case another more accurate electrical variable.
A thin wire can stand high voltages.
This is a basic electrical concept/law.
Other speakers tend to impress their audience with inappropriate scientific studies, super fields, quantum physics, parallel dimensions analogies...
Too often, those speakers, nourishing the audience's fantasies, do not have the necessary scientific background and the audience is not vigilant enough to verify the validity of their ''scientific'' analogies.
1:12:00 ---CC Leigh: ''It's an opportunity for our wiring to catch up. And then the next time we get to run a little bit more voltage through the system''.
--- Rick: yeah, I think it's very important, I mean, obviously...
The voltage does not go through a circuit.
I wanted to point out that a simple scientific/electrical analogy here is not used properly.
Thank you for sharing your personnal experiences.