For someone that is budget constrained, I think the setup that would make sense is a Simagic Alpha Mini + P1000, and then just get the Moza SGP and HBP. I'd recommend Simagic for the wheelbase and pedals any day.
I’m have the MOZA R16 absolutely fantastic wheel base no issues at all. I’ve had it 7 months use it around 3 hours every day. I’m running the simagic P2000 pedals they are amazing love the hydraulics. I’ve also got the MOZA hand brake and the simagic Q1s sequential shifter. A mixture of the both brands you can build a very nice setup.
Iv only had them for around 7 weeks. But they do get used every day for at least 3 hours. So far no issues at all. They are soooo good. I upgraded from the Thrustmaster TLCM.
@@vanishingpointracing.2199 I currently have fanatec V2 and they are good But i always wonder,should i give one monthly payment to get the P1000 hydraulic? I see it as many small upgrades that compount Hydraulic is nice probably and i like the airy feel or real car brakes Gas and clutch on my V2s are very basic so thats a definite upgrade And also i like the fact that i can modulate everything
I def prefer simagic. But this latest moza update really imoroved the ffb but I still prefer simagics loading and unloading in corners. The edge of grip feel. The snap on corrections etc. The suspension feel is unbeatable and ive tried almost all wheelbases out.
@@brandongardner404 have u tried using road detail 10 and ffb equlizer at 500 with moza? this really eliminated all the oscilations for me, the only problem now beeing that some curbs feel even stroger... i'm courious, if u will compare again, try this please! 🙏😇
i have had the r9 and now own a alpha mini, the alpha mini is more polished for sure, so much that i bought p1000, a q1 and a tb-1 just because of it, the fact that they didnt cheap out on the encoder on the mini vs the r5/r9/r12 helps a lot
Yes! I forgot to mention that! The encoder on the alpha mini, alpha, and alpha u are the same! While the encoder for the r16 and r21 are the same. But the r3, r5, r9, and r12 share the same encoder!
@@sniperzdb09 higher resolution encoder are probably more expensive That why they went that route so they can give the best value for money Racing Beyond Matter has a video that he compares them and he call them twins Probably most of us in a blind test we couldn't even tell which is which Simagic is already next gen imo. They are the first that they came with such modularity in pedals and their haptics are gamechanger. Combine that with their elastomer combos and they are so good when having the hydraulic kit to have zero elastomer relaxation
I ran simagic alpha mini with logitech g29 pedals amazon handbrake and shifter for awhile. The nicest budget setup ever. I have since upgraded to p1000 pedals with hydrauloc upgrade on brake. HUGE improvement overall. I still love my amazon shifter. All metal design and it has a nice gated shift setup and nice commanding spring assisted clunk with each gear you shift into. And of course my amazon ebrake is still the same. Love it
I have experience driving Simagic Alpha and MOZA R16, in a blind test I would not be able to distinguish them, except that on the MOZA R16 the curbs feel a little harder. The peripherals don't have to be the same brand, there are better pedals than the P 1000, Heusinkveld Sprint or Caravangoes m2 and both bases are amazing. When first released, the MOZA R21 and MOZA R16 were priced at $1,199 and $999 respectively, which is a rather strange marketing proposition for a newcomer to the industry.
A very valuable input, even from a Moza user like myself. I bought Moza R12 + KS when Simagic hasn't come to my country. (thought it does now) I'm a circuit racer and I'm a happy sim racer with my current gear. But, after my own research prior to this video, I myself would recommend Simagic for anyone looking into mid-range DD wheels, and with your input, you're one of the big deciding factor now. :)
Me using my t-300 I’ve had for 2-3 years 😂 guess I’ll go sim magic wheel and pedal set. I have the Moza handbrake already cause my eBay one broke. Good video tho! Great points…. Prime example, drove a z on track for the first time this weekend and I was only missing the feel of the clutch… lmao good points
Since I'm just a casual gamer, I like driving around in FH5, I really like drifting even if I'm bad at it, I'm forcing the wheel of my G27 way more than the wheel is helping me. I have AC but I want a better setup before even attempting to learn drifting properly and I also want to play BeamNG and TDU Solar Crown just because TDU2 is the game which made me want to have a sim rig. To save up money I would rather get something between 10 - 15nm instead of 21-23nm, that seems more for F1 and GT3 racing than driving and drifting to me. I'm saving up to get the Simagic Alpha mini with the quick release instead of a wheel so I can get a cheap normal round wheel on it, I want the inverted P1000 with probably the hydraulic kit for the brake pedal but I'm not sure because just the pedals will be such an upgrade I'll be like a pig in $h!t even without it. I'll get the SHH shifter just because I mostly play at night and I don't want to wake up anybody just by shifting. As for the handbrake I'll probably get the Moza one or another ok one just because it will be a huge upgrade from my Fanatec one which flimsy and broke easily. The whole thing is still going to cost me more than 2300$ in my country since the Simagic U is on sale at 1335$ by itself and I wont pay that for sure. I would have to be really nicely sponsored to get that.
You just almost described my current setup perfectly. Im running an alpha mini, logi g pro pedals, shh shifter, and moza handbrake. The only thing I want to change are the pedals. They aren't bad, they just lack adjustability for my needs and were on the cheaper end of midrange load cell pedals when I was looking to upgrade from my r5 bundled srp-lites.
Hey nice vid, I just got back into Sim racing/Drifting this year, basically I Started with Drifting with LFS back in 2010 & I had a bib brake because I was racing IRL. I just got back this Year on AC for Drifting but Also doing the eNascar Qualifications, so I do a lot of Oval / Nascar racing. Right now I have a Moza R5 with the CS V2 wheel & I got a deep dish on it, unfortunately I have still no handbrake "Yes I drift with a button on the wheel which is just horrible". For the Pedals I was hesitating between the P2000 & P1000 I don't know if there is a huge difference, regarding the hydraulic system. I am not sure that if I go directly with the Hydraulic system I'll get the most performance of it directly tho.
Let me know if you've got anything! The P1000-RS (hydraulic) is my personal pick. I personally don't like the brake feel of the P2000 it's a but spongy. Check it out on boundlessracing.com/
In my country, any reseller have to take responsibility for guarantee and they also have to follow our laws. For that reason I went with Moza, because Simagic isn’t sold here. Now I have very strong laws on my side if anything would happen with any of the equipment.
Nice video and subscribed Over the last 4 years, i have gone from Logitech, to Fanatec DD and now Moza R12 this year. TBH, all are good enough but now i’m in search of more details on the wheel about to pull the trigger on Simagic wheel base, i hope the difference will be night and day. Moza R12 is pretty good for my home practice and helped me shaved off seconds in my real life track days driving v8s and it does a good job of replicating the weight of the steering wheel compared to my weekend track car but just lack details (road texture, compression and slippage) and when i crank up the FFB and Torque to try to bring out these details, that’s when the oscillation happens, not in every game but definitely in AC1 which I know people love. Moza is not that bad, the oscillation when it happens really is off putting and can be tuned out but as this video mentioned, damping the force is not the way to go and it means you lose the details, i think one thing is for sure , with the Moza R12, when oscillation happens, can’t let go of the wheel at all, not even for a few seconds down the main straight as it goes crazy . The oscillation doesn’t affect every sim and when it does happen, operating with one hand in most cases literally is like an arm wrestle with Popeye. but having said all that, it’s more than good enough for 99% of the population and it’s a step above in terms of detail and brute force compared to my Fanatec CSL DD.
let me know what you've done! we currently have the alpha u's for around $800 at boundlessracing.com or if you have a little more budget, i'd look into the asetek invicta or the classic simucube 2 pro
Sup Brandon, great vid, im sad i have a Moza now lmao. To remove oscillation, in Moza Pit House run the body bumps (10hz) in equalizer to 300%. Run in between 250% to 400% on some cars. When upping the bump it seems like it gives you "correct" data from the game in stead of "guessing" where the front wheels are when driving straight. It removes the oscillation on transition and entry when drifting aswell. It becomes a little more stiff and ffb becomes a little more sharp. I had the same journey that you had, i was sooo mad i bought a dd that did this. Moza software is still a little wonky so i aint praising Moza right now. But i hope this info can help some frustrated moza users out there. :) Cheers
Same, I'm using a TSXW with TCLM atm and upgrading to DD at the end of this year. Not looking for immense power upgrade since my TSXW is already around 6nm, but I rly want more and refined detail. The Alpha Mini is on the top of my list. Probably with the GT NEO wheel and P1000 pedals.
I expected this kind of result in sim-racing you get what you pay for since I'm poor and not interested in the whole esports pro comps type of thing I just typically mess around on AC with a whole multitude of cars so I'm leaning towards an r5 or an r9 with some loadcell pedal kit on a black Friday deal. I'm sure it will be a HUGE upgrade from my current Thrustmaster t248.
Oh for sureeee that’s a huge upgrade. Just for longevity things I’d go alpha mini, then you can upgrade through their eco system and get some thrustmaster tclm’s
@@brandongardner404 T-LCMs are only worth the purchase if you have thrustmaster ecosystem and need a console compatibility with a single manufacturer gear. Otherwise for that price I would look elsewhere for much better performance
Thx for the honest review and comparison. One question about the R21 though: Did you activate the “hands off protection” function in Pit House? That should *in theory* prevent the oscillation without needing to dial down the raw output. Simagic is tempting, from the Alpha Mini and up, when comparing it with the R9/12 and up. Below that though, the R5 sits in a perfect space for more casual players, as you said.
The hands off protection helps stabilize the wheel if you let go, but it can get activated when you quickly turn the wheel from side to side (software thinks you let go). it basically kills the FFB response for a short time. The wheel feels numb until it kicks back in when you hold the wheel normally again. I would not really recommend it to stop oscillations during drifting. I have the R12 for a few months and I sometimes quickly jerk the wheel when mad at myself and my performance. it caught me out a few times. It is good to use purely for safety reasons when you let go of the wheel. It should not be relied upon to cover up an issue you have with the wheel behavior in normal use.
I'm super happy with my Moza kit. I have a mate who has a high end sim magic kit Alpha U, p2000 etc and honestly - its not a huge difference. I've never used the CRP pedals, but I've modified my SRP pedals and they were great modified. I now run Simsonn pro pedals and really enjoying them. If you want the best of the best, spend big dollars. If you want 80% of the experience and some coin left over for other things, I'm happy with Moza.
Simagic is not that much more for the wheelbase and pedals which are what really matters. For shifters and handbrakes brand doesn't matter as much and there are a lot more options. They are comparatively simple devices that do not require any sophisticated software.
@@alecmillea4539 the simagic handbrakes are also all either loadcell or hydraulic (moza is just spring). Same with simagic shifters being more intricate and higher quality. Encoders are wheels are higher quality & pedals are astronomically better
@@brandongardner404 don't get me wrong I'm 100% in team simagic. I have an alpha U, GTS wheel and P1000s. I'm just saying there are things on a simrig that are really worth spending money on like pedals and wheelbase. Then there are other things like shifters and handbrakes where the law of diminishing returns kicks in at lower price levels. Some of the options available on common online stores are remarkably capable, well made and reasonably priced.
If you have the budget, go full Simagic. You won't regret it. The feel and build is in my opinion way better than Moza. They'll both get the job done very well, but Simagic will look and feel better, at least to me. When I took out the Moza stuff from my setup I really started to enjoy the ergonomics of sim racing a alot more and I started spending more and more time in sim. That said, I would still suggest at the very least Simagic P2000 (which I have) or P1000 pedal set and then go for the budget Moza stuff for everything else
I think you forgot to do a comparison based around single parts because if your doing this you shoulf compare base to base, wheel to wheel, pedals to pedals, the reason why i say this is because you can swap shifters as for your issue with the r21 in drifting you forgot you had the hands free protection which whenever you hit bumps or detect a crash it self centers. Personally it doesnt sound like you do any track driving which also makes it hard to compare though but maybe im wrong just mentioning that because from my knowledge seems like moza is more for track use not for drifting
@@brandongardner404 that makes sense because you made it sound like it was a perspective of the whole scheme of things which was a bit confusing I don't doubt the simagic has better drifting performance but I think if you still have the r21 and you haven't tried turning off hands free protection to give it a go because the symptoms you complained about sounded exactly what the system is designed for and I have heard it does freak out over curbs if it detects you let go of wheel which you do a lot in drifting but other then that pedal and shifter feel was great just think you should clarify that next time because you made it sound like you were saying in perspective of all motorsports
The sweet spot is the alpha, not sure why someone would need more than 10-12 nm of force. It's not very realistic. By the way put some haptic motors from simagic on the p1000 it will blow you away.
i'd say if you have the budget just go normal alpha. on boundlessracing.com prices have actually gone down so now the alpha is less than $600 which is nuts
I'm on Moza currently, but getting Simagic stuff soon for the same reason. I want to start taking virtual competitive drifting seriously. I have a question though. How did you find (good) people to practice tandems with. I really don't mean to be rude by this but when I go into even VDC servers on Assetto most people are either not very good, not trying to be good (just having fun) which is fine and cool no problem, or they're trolling sitting in the middle of the track on purpose to mess up everyone else in the lobby. I just want a few decent people to practice seriously with though :/
@@markdresslar I’d find a good community to just get around. I just started my community, I got a Discord for it and just tryna create good drivers. I’ll mention it (I don’t expect nothing out of it) but created a small paid private group, made for people looking to take sim drifting more seriously.
hello :) I got information that you have simagic uktimate and could you help me with implementation in some simulators? Apparently I care about RBR / richard burns rally and ASETO CORSA :) thanks in advance regards
isn't that phisical clutch bitepoint on the p1000 bother u for drifting? like when u modulate and stuff. and... do you set the virtual bitepoint to match the phisical one? i'm asking because i know the phisical one is almost at the end of the pedal throw, and on the pedal that i use i like to have the virtual bitepoint more at the begining of the throw.
Comparing high end to high end is misleading. Need to compare like for like products OR the cheapest line up instead. With that said, I do think you make great points and absolutely agree Simagic is more for a good reason, but would still like to compare apples to apples as I think it would be a more useful conversation for new sim racers to understand the true difference.
I just got the Alpha and its awesome! I don't know why in earth youd want more than 15nm holding torque. Its been measured at over 18nm when at full lock, has heaps of detail, and is amazing for catching slides. Also, you do notice the 18 bit encoder if you're coming from a 12bit or lower. You can visually see it under the FFB axis in Content Manager for AC, when you turn the wheel, and the slider moves along the axis.
Where is this 18nm lock measurement, i cant find it. Im upgrading my.order from a mini to an alpha since mini now has a weaker psu with the v2 and v3. @GregoryShtevensh
What's worse is that moza repeatedly lies about it's product specs but most won't know or be able to tell because they are targeting relative newcomers to DD and those who haven't experienced better. Encoders are not 18 bit even on latest R16v2. Aviation grade aluminum? It's just all marketing BS. Yes it's cheap and affordable which is why the R5 is a recommended product but don't be fooled to think anything beyond that is better. And only Simagic and Simucube have 360hz FFB for iracing. That tells you how much better the hardware and software actually is...and for not much more in price.
iRacing is always 60Hz native external output for FFB but around 300Hz internal output that gets into telemetry. The way these brands have extra is by sending a burst of FFB signals in every second that then gets played back, it is causing some latency to the FFB, so it is not perfect. I have watched a review of this feature on Simagic or Simucube with detailed explanations. iRacing definitely needs to change this archaic model across the board to catch up to the competition.
@@farfarad89 super super solid wheelbase option as a beginner. But imo, after 6 months of use, you’ll want more. You’ll feel there’s a piece of the puzzle missing. So imo, save your money and wait to buy a dd
@@Thorkell_Joms they both definitely feel similar but somagic just feels way more expensive and robust than the moza. strength wise i notice almost not difference but it just feels way smoother than moza. my r9 almost felt like it had a belt in it 💀
Hi, I have a moza r12 and it's too jerky, whatever I change in the settings, do you think it's worth changing it to an alpha mini for the sake of this smoothness? That's the only thing that really bothers me.
@@FeroxX_Gosu lol. Well for starters. For drifting, there is no “real camera.” On the roof and in the car, you still train yourself to move your eyes and have reference points. And since I’m on a single screen monitor, I cannot get the accurate FOV that triples and VR have to train head movement while drifting. I mean look at Conor Shanahan and IDS champion @hyneszofficial (alan hynes), they’re both REALLY good drivers on the sim and IRL and use roof cam.
There are literally professional Sim racers that race with a G923 as bad as that sounds So just stop with your entry level /casual racer. You said this was gonna be a comparison not you up there speculating on why people buy MOZA. you’re up there and you sound like a sales rep. I just can’t take you serious.
@brandongardner404 ye it definitely helps having good equipment tho like yourself, also I'm loving the new simagic setup, good luck with future Events bro, do you have any vdc settings for thrustmaster t300?
I view using this equipment for irl driving as more for teaching muscle memory and to give you a decent idea of how the car can handle especially if its a high quality simulation. Then all you would have to acclimate to is the irl feeling of driving.
DONT BUY MOZA, I purchased a R9 V2 and as soon as i got it out of the box it was defective, turns out there was rust and corrosion in the Base, they sent me a new board which did not fix the problem, which is when i found rust and corrosion inside of the base, so they had me send it back and they put a third main board in the base which guess what did not fix the problem and now their support is ignoring me, so i have purchased a brand new R9 V2 in August and i have never got to use it and now im stuck with a non functioning R9
i am struggling on the pedal part. I have the wheelbase picked, simucube pro, moza fsr wheel, Rig metal flagship. as for pedals im looking at heuskinveld ultimate+ but thats so steep. not sure of any alternatives because i know you get what you pay for but i just want to buy once.
For someone that is budget constrained, I think the setup that would make sense is a Simagic Alpha Mini + P1000, and then just get the Moza SGP and HBP. I'd recommend Simagic for the wheelbase and pedals any day.
i agree
I’m have the MOZA R16 absolutely fantastic wheel base no issues at all. I’ve had it 7 months use it around 3 hours every day. I’m running the simagic P2000 pedals they are amazing love the hydraulics. I’ve also got the MOZA hand brake and the simagic Q1s sequential shifter. A mixture of the both brands you can build a very nice setup.
Heck yea! Have you had any troubles with the hydraulics with the P2000 brakes?
Iv only had them for around 7 weeks. But they do get used every day for at least 3 hours. So far no issues at all. They are soooo good. I upgraded from the Thrustmaster TLCM.
@@vanishingpointracing.2199 I currently have fanatec V2 and they are good
But i always wonder,should i give one monthly payment to get the P1000 hydraulic?
I see it as many small upgrades that compount
Hydraulic is nice probably and i like the airy feel or real car brakes
Gas and clutch on my V2s are very basic so thats a definite upgrade
And also i like the fact that i can modulate everything
What type of upkeep does hydraulic pedals need? Or, are they maintenance free?
@@martinhenderson7487I’ve had them since summer last year so far no maintenance at all. I just keep them clean. I would highly recommend them.
Wish I would of saw this before I got my moza setup but definitely relate a lot with the comparison’s here after driving moza after sometime
Preciate it! I was gonna drop it saturday but got busy 😢
I def prefer simagic. But this latest moza update really imoroved the ffb but I still prefer simagics loading and unloading in corners. The edge of grip feel. The snap on corrections etc. The suspension feel is unbeatable and ive tried almost all wheelbases out.
@@reviewforthetube6485 i’ve heard, makes me want to re-try them and recompare lol
@@brandongardner404 have u tried using road detail 10 and ffb equlizer at 500 with moza? this really eliminated all the oscilations for me, the only problem now beeing that some curbs feel even stroger... i'm courious, if u will compare again, try this please! 🙏😇
@@brandongardner404How about now the moza feels?
i have had the r9 and now own a alpha mini, the alpha mini is more polished for sure, so much that i bought p1000, a q1 and a tb-1 just because of it, the fact that they didnt cheap out on the encoder on the mini vs the r5/r9/r12 helps a lot
Yes! I forgot to mention that! The encoder on the alpha mini, alpha, and alpha u are the same! While the encoder for the r16 and r21 are the same. But the r3, r5, r9, and r12 share the same encoder!
R12 is not worth it IMO
it loses to competition
simagic has better motor with "less clogs" and higher encoder resolution
@brandongardner404 cant wait for simagic next gen, i hope they gonna step up the encoders to the levels of simicube
@@sniperzdb09 higher resolution encoder are probably more expensive
That why they went that route so they can give the best value for money
Racing Beyond Matter has a video that he compares them and he call them twins
Probably most of us in a blind test we couldn't even tell which is which
Simagic is already next gen imo.
They are the first that they came with such modularity in pedals and their haptics are gamechanger.
Combine that with their elastomer combos and they are so good when having the hydraulic kit to have zero elastomer relaxation
Is your Alpha Mini (last version v3) much stronger than the Moza R9? Or nearly the same 9-10nm? And yeah, detail is better on Simagic
I ran simagic alpha mini with logitech g29 pedals amazon handbrake and shifter for awhile. The nicest budget setup ever. I have since upgraded to p1000 pedals with hydrauloc upgrade on brake. HUGE improvement overall. I still love my amazon shifter. All metal design and it has a nice gated shift setup and nice commanding spring assisted clunk with each gear you shift into. And of course my amazon ebrake is still the same. Love it
I have experience driving Simagic Alpha and MOZA R16, in a blind test I would not be able to distinguish them, except that on the MOZA R16 the curbs feel a little harder. The peripherals don't have to be the same brand, there are better pedals than the P 1000, Heusinkveld Sprint or Caravangoes m2 and both bases are amazing. When first released, the MOZA R21 and MOZA R16 were priced at $1,199 and $999 respectively, which is a rather strange marketing proposition for a newcomer to the industry.
A very valuable input, even from a Moza user like myself. I bought Moza R12 + KS when Simagic hasn't come to my country. (thought it does now)
I'm a circuit racer and I'm a happy sim racer with my current gear. But, after my own research prior to this video, I myself would recommend Simagic for anyone looking into mid-range DD wheels, and with your input, you're one of the big deciding factor now. :)
I appreciate that man!
Wah member LOR nih hehe. Bukannya LOR lebih prefer Moza dari Simagic kak?
Great comparison 🔥
Me using my t-300 I’ve had for 2-3 years 😂 guess I’ll go sim magic wheel and pedal set. I have the Moza handbrake already cause my eBay one broke. Good video tho! Great points…. Prime example, drove a z on track for the first time this weekend and I was only missing the feel of the clutch… lmao good points
t-300 honestly feels super nice as a budget wheel! i lowkey enjoy it more than the r5 i've tried.
@@brandongardner404 everything is better than g-920 lmao thats what i tell people..
@@Doss.Mediaadon't tell people that or you may convince them to buy a pxn wheel or that 100 dollar non ffb thrustmaster wheel lol
Since I'm just a casual gamer, I like driving around in FH5, I really like drifting even if I'm bad at it, I'm forcing the wheel of my G27 way more than the wheel is helping me. I have AC but I want a better setup before even attempting to learn drifting properly and I also want to play BeamNG and TDU Solar Crown just because TDU2 is the game which made me want to have a sim rig. To save up money I would rather get something between 10 - 15nm instead of 21-23nm, that seems more for F1 and GT3 racing than driving and drifting to me. I'm saving up to get the Simagic Alpha mini with the quick release instead of a wheel so I can get a cheap normal round wheel on it, I want the inverted P1000 with probably the hydraulic kit for the brake pedal but I'm not sure because just the pedals will be such an upgrade I'll be like a pig in $h!t even without it. I'll get the SHH shifter just because I mostly play at night and I don't want to wake up anybody just by shifting. As for the handbrake I'll probably get the Moza one or another ok one just because it will be a huge upgrade from my Fanatec one which flimsy and broke easily. The whole thing is still going to cost me more than 2300$ in my country since the Simagic U is on sale at 1335$ by itself and I wont pay that for sure. I would have to be really nicely sponsored to get that.
You just almost described my current setup perfectly. Im running an alpha mini, logi g pro pedals, shh shifter, and moza handbrake. The only thing I want to change are the pedals. They aren't bad, they just lack adjustability for my needs and were on the cheaper end of midrange load cell pedals when I was looking to upgrade from my r5 bundled srp-lites.
i have Moza r12+KS+SR-P, and i very happy!
Hey nice vid, I just got back into Sim racing/Drifting this year, basically I Started with Drifting with LFS back in 2010 & I had a bib brake because I was racing IRL. I just got back this Year on AC for Drifting but Also doing the eNascar Qualifications, so I do a lot of Oval / Nascar racing.
Right now I have a Moza R5 with the CS V2 wheel & I got a deep dish on it, unfortunately I have still no handbrake "Yes I drift with a button on the wheel which is just horrible". For the Pedals I was hesitating between the P2000 & P1000 I don't know if there is a huge difference, regarding the hydraulic system.
I am not sure that if I go directly with the Hydraulic system I'll get the most performance of it directly tho.
Let me know if you've got anything! The P1000-RS (hydraulic) is my personal pick. I personally don't like the brake feel of the P2000 it's a but spongy. Check it out on boundlessracing.com/
In my country, any reseller have to take responsibility for guarantee and they also have to follow our laws. For that reason I went with Moza, because Simagic isn’t sold here. Now I have very strong laws on my side if anything would happen with any of the equipment.
Nice video and subscribed
Over the last 4 years, i have gone from Logitech, to Fanatec DD and now Moza R12 this year.
TBH, all are good enough but now i’m in search of more details on the wheel about to pull the trigger on Simagic wheel base, i hope the difference will be night and day.
Moza R12 is pretty good for my home practice and helped me shaved off seconds in my real life track days driving v8s and it does a good job of replicating the weight of the steering wheel compared to my weekend track car but just lack details (road texture, compression and slippage) and when i crank up the FFB and Torque to try to bring out these details, that’s when the oscillation happens, not in every game but definitely in AC1 which I know people love.
Moza is not that bad, the oscillation when it happens really is off putting and can be tuned out but as this video mentioned, damping the force is not the way to go and it means you lose the details, i think one thing is for sure , with the Moza R12, when oscillation happens, can’t let go of the wheel at all, not even for a few seconds down the main straight as it goes crazy .
The oscillation doesn’t affect every sim and when it does happen, operating with one hand in most cases literally is like an arm wrestle with Popeye.
but having said all that, it’s more than good enough for 99% of the population and it’s a step above in terms of detail and brute force compared to my Fanatec CSL DD.
let me know what you've done! we currently have the alpha u's for around $800 at boundlessracing.com or if you have a little more budget, i'd look into the asetek invicta or the classic simucube 2 pro
Sup Brandon, great vid, im sad i have a Moza now lmao. To remove oscillation, in Moza Pit House run the body bumps (10hz) in equalizer to 300%. Run in between 250% to 400% on some cars. When upping the bump it seems like it gives you "correct" data from the game in stead of "guessing" where the front wheels are when driving straight. It removes the oscillation on transition and entry when drifting aswell. It becomes a little more stiff and ffb becomes a little more sharp. I had the same journey that you had, i was sooo mad i bought a dd that did this. Moza software is still a little wonky so i aint praising Moza right now. But i hope this info can help some frustrated moza users out there. :) Cheers
Hopefully this can help some MOZA users
yess, this is what i've found also. I used 400 to 500 in ffb eq and my r9 really started to feel decent for drifting
I was already pretty sure I was going to chose the Alpha mini bundle with the p1000, you just confirmed it.
Thanks!
Hell yea brother! “Forsbergracing” for 5% off btw 😉😉😉😉😉
Same, I'm using a TSXW with TCLM atm and upgrading to DD at the end of this year.
Not looking for immense power upgrade since my TSXW is already around 6nm, but I rly want more and refined detail.
The Alpha Mini is on the top of my list. Probably with the GT NEO wheel and P1000 pedals.
I expected this kind of result in sim-racing you get what you pay for since I'm poor and not interested in the whole esports pro comps type of thing I just typically mess around on AC with a whole multitude of cars so I'm leaning towards an r5 or an r9 with some loadcell pedal kit on a black Friday deal. I'm sure it will be a HUGE upgrade from my current Thrustmaster t248.
Oh for sureeee that’s a huge upgrade. Just for longevity things I’d go alpha mini, then you can upgrade through their eco system and get some thrustmaster tclm’s
@@brandongardner404 T-LCMs are only worth the purchase if you have thrustmaster ecosystem and need a console compatibility with a single manufacturer gear. Otherwise for that price I would look elsewhere for much better performance
Compared very well, consistent with my impression
Appreciate it!
Thx for the honest review and comparison.
One question about the R21 though: Did you activate the “hands off protection” function in Pit House? That should *in theory* prevent the oscillation without needing to dial down the raw output.
Simagic is tempting, from the Alpha Mini and up, when comparing it with the R9/12 and up.
Below that though, the R5 sits in a perfect space for more casual players, as you said.
The hands off protection helps stabilize the wheel if you let go, but it can get activated when you quickly turn the wheel from side to side (software thinks you let go). it basically kills the FFB response for a short time. The wheel feels numb until it kicks back in when you hold the wheel normally again. I would not really recommend it to stop oscillations during drifting. I have the R12 for a few months and I sometimes quickly jerk the wheel when mad at myself and my performance. it caught me out a few times.
It is good to use purely for safety reasons when you let go of the wheel. It should not be relied upon to cover up an issue you have with the wheel behavior in normal use.
was it the v2 moza
I'm super happy with my Moza kit. I have a mate who has a high end sim magic kit Alpha U, p2000 etc and honestly - its not a huge difference.
I've never used the CRP pedals, but I've modified my SRP pedals and they were great modified.
I now run Simsonn pro pedals and really enjoying them.
If you want the best of the best, spend big dollars.
If you want 80% of the experience and some coin left over for other things, I'm happy with Moza.
I've had both brands as well and I totally disagree, the difference is significant in quality and performance for not much difference in price.
@@asSIMuNation Thats nice to hear as i love simagic as a brand and soon i will buy
You earned yourself a subscriber
@@Style.1l90 god bless the usa 😎🇺🇸
bro you should drift in the in car view :P
You right
Simagic is not that much more for the wheelbase and pedals which are what really matters. For shifters and handbrakes brand doesn't matter as much and there are a lot more options. They are comparatively simple devices that do not require any sophisticated software.
@@alecmillea4539 the simagic handbrakes are also all either loadcell or hydraulic (moza is just spring). Same with simagic shifters being more intricate and higher quality.
Encoders are wheels are higher quality & pedals are astronomically better
@@brandongardner404 don't get me wrong I'm 100% in team simagic. I have an alpha U, GTS wheel and P1000s. I'm just saying there are things on a simrig that are really worth spending money on like pedals and wheelbase. Then there are other things like shifters and handbrakes where the law of diminishing returns kicks in at lower price levels. Some of the options available on common online stores are remarkably capable, well made and reasonably priced.
If you have the budget, go full Simagic. You won't regret it. The feel and build is in my opinion way better than Moza. They'll both get the job done very well, but Simagic will look and feel better, at least to me. When I took out the Moza stuff from my setup I really started to enjoy the ergonomics of sim racing a alot more and I started spending more and more time in sim. That said, I would still suggest at the very least Simagic P2000 (which I have) or P1000 pedal set and then go for the budget Moza stuff for everything else
100% very much like the P1000's
Nice video, bro. How do you attach that wheel to the Moza base? Is there any adapter for that?
Yea they have their own adapter that's similar to Simagic's design (6 and 4 ball pin NRG style quick release)
Let’s say I’m on a budget would you go with the alpha mini or just the alpha
Depends how much of a budget
@@brandongardner404 would you recommend it over moza ?
Real …. I went simagic 🎉
Hey Max
I gonna join soon!
Btw you are one of many that convinced me that i definately dont need the U
Alpha is more than enough
I think you forgot to do a comparison based around single parts because if your doing this you shoulf compare base to base, wheel to wheel, pedals to pedals, the reason why i say this is because you can swap shifters as for your issue with the r21 in drifting you forgot you had the hands free protection which whenever you hit bumps or detect a crash it self centers. Personally it doesnt sound like you do any track driving which also makes it hard to compare though but maybe im wrong just mentioning that because from my knowledge seems like moza is more for track use not for drifting
@@Thri11seeker yea this was more from a drifter’s perspective.
@@brandongardner404 that makes sense because you made it sound like it was a perspective of the whole scheme of things which was a bit confusing I don't doubt the simagic has better drifting performance but I think if you still have the r21 and you haven't tried turning off hands free protection to give it a go because the symptoms you complained about sounded exactly what the system is designed for and I have heard it does freak out over curbs if it detects you let go of wheel which you do a lot in drifting but other then that pedal and shifter feel was great just think you should clarify that next time because you made it sound like you were saying in perspective of all motorsports
I mean I have all moza products and I use my sim every single day
The sweet spot is the alpha, not sure why someone would need more than 10-12 nm of force. It's not very realistic. By the way put some haptic motors from simagic on the p1000 it will blow you away.
Is this shifter from simagic also H shifter or sequential only?
@@felipesiedschlagyopan4185 so the one in the video is sequential only. But Simagic also has the DS-8X which is an h pattern + seq
@@brandongardner404 Ok, thanks!
Thoughts on the alpha mini or regular alpha vs. the ultimate
i'd say if you have the budget just go normal alpha. on boundlessracing.com prices have actually gone down so now the alpha is less than $600 which is nuts
I'm on Moza currently, but getting Simagic stuff soon for the same reason. I want to start taking virtual competitive drifting seriously. I have a question though. How did you find (good) people to practice tandems with. I really don't mean to be rude by this but when I go into even VDC servers on Assetto most people are either not very good, not trying to be good (just having fun) which is fine and cool no problem, or they're trolling sitting in the middle of the track on purpose to mess up everyone else in the lobby. I just want a few decent people to practice seriously with though :/
@@markdresslar I’d find a good community to just get around. I just started my community, I got a Discord for it and just tryna create good drivers. I’ll mention it (I don’t expect nothing out of it) but created a small paid private group, made for people looking to take sim drifting more seriously.
hello :) I got information that you have simagic uktimate and could you help me with implementation in some simulators? Apparently I care about RBR / richard burns rally and ASETO CORSA :) thanks in advance regards
Let me have the moza
send the addy
@@brandongardner404 dunno abt the address thing, i live with my mom lol
@@brandongardner404 i can dm you on instagram abt that tho
Can confirm Moza oscillations are awful, even with all their crutches like x5y3.
Man u ain't lied at all like I can't practice the loose hands under braking cuz it's just that man i have to grip the wheel tight the hole time 😂😂😂
increase ffb eq to 300-400. oscilations wil be gone
isn't that phisical clutch bitepoint on the p1000 bother u for drifting? like when u modulate and stuff. and... do you set the virtual bitepoint to match the phisical one? i'm asking because i know the phisical one is almost at the end of the pedal throw, and on the pedal that i use i like to have the virtual bitepoint more at the begining of the throw.
it really doesn't because i'm literally kicking the clutch lol
Comparing high end to high end is misleading. Need to compare like for like products OR the cheapest line up instead. With that said, I do think you make great points and absolutely agree Simagic is more for a good reason, but would still like to compare apples to apples as I think it would be a more useful conversation for new sim racers to understand the true difference.
i totally agree that moza has a fantastic low-end line up, but for the mid to high end range, simagic clears
Okay, but what if i want the R12... compared to Alpha Mini or Alpha? Especially after their new FFB update? Thanks:)
I just got the Alpha and its awesome! I don't know why in earth youd want more than 15nm holding torque. Its been measured at over 18nm when at full lock, has heaps of detail, and is amazing for catching slides. Also, you do notice the 18 bit encoder if you're coming from a 12bit or lower. You can visually see it under the FFB axis in Content Manager for AC, when you turn the wheel, and the slider moves along the axis.
Where is this 18nm lock measurement, i cant find it. Im upgrading my.order from a mini to an alpha since mini now has a weaker psu with the v2 and v3. @GregoryShtevensh
What's worse is that moza repeatedly lies about it's product specs but most won't know or be able to tell because they are targeting relative newcomers to DD and those who haven't experienced better. Encoders are not 18 bit even on latest R16v2. Aviation grade aluminum? It's just all marketing BS. Yes it's cheap and affordable which is why the R5 is a recommended product but don't be fooled to think anything beyond that is better. And only Simagic and Simucube have 360hz FFB for iracing. That tells you how much better the hardware and software actually is...and for not much more in price.
iRacing is always 60Hz native external output for FFB but around 300Hz internal output that gets into telemetry. The way these brands have extra is by sending a burst of FFB signals in every second that then gets played back, it is causing some latency to the FFB, so it is not perfect.
I have watched a review of this feature on Simagic or Simucube with detailed explanations.
iRacing definitely needs to change this archaic model across the board to catch up to the competition.
@@Django45 yes but it still adds an additional layer of immersion that the others don't.
did you test v2 or v1 moza product?
both. in the video v2, but i've used both v1 and v2 products
@@brandongardner404 thank you!
Had my moza for few weeks now and genuinely thinking of sending it back the oscillation is awful
if i still have it try increase ffb eq to 300-400
the v1 is in the picture
both.
what abput the t300 rs gt?
@@farfarad89 super super solid wheelbase option as a beginner. But imo, after 6 months of use, you’ll want more. You’ll feel there’s a piece of the puzzle missing. So imo, save your money and wait to buy a dd
@@brandongardner404 👌 thank you
i went from r9 to alpha mini. so funny how many of these issues i related to
Do you find the actual Simagic Alpha Mini (version 3) much stronger than Moza R9 or nearly the same? I know FFB detail of the Mini is better :)
@@Thorkell_Joms they both definitely feel similar but somagic just feels way more expensive and robust than the moza. strength wise i notice almost not difference but it just feels way smoother than moza. my r9 almost felt like it had a belt in it 💀
Hi, I have a moza r12 and it's too jerky, whatever I change in the settings, do you think it's worth changing it to an alpha mini for the sake of this smoothness? That's the only thing that really bothers me.
@@beznomerovtry increase ffb eq to 300-400
Moza R21 is for average user and that's why it's cheap eh?
Neither work on my PS5 to play GT7 so they are useless to me. This leaves me Fanatec at $700 or Thrustmaster at $500 for a direct drive wheel.
@@azrabain8210 gotcha! Actually, the Simagic Cortex converter converts all your simagic gear to PS5! Hope this helps.
How come you talk about reaching absolute realism, and you use the wrong camera to drift? WTF man?... explain!
@@FeroxX_Gosu lol. Well for starters. For drifting, there is no “real camera.” On the roof and in the car, you still train yourself to move your eyes and have reference points. And since I’m on a single screen monitor, I cannot get the accurate FOV that triples and VR have to train head movement while drifting.
I mean look at Conor Shanahan and IDS champion @hyneszofficial (alan hynes), they’re both REALLY good drivers on the sim and IRL and use roof cam.
There are literally professional Sim racers that race with a G923 as bad as that sounds So just stop with your entry level /casual racer. You said this was gonna be a comparison not you up there speculating on why people buy MOZA. you’re up there and you sound like a sales rep. I just can’t take you serious.
@@steffendetrick i’m sorry you feel that way Steffen
Your never gonna get the real life feeling no matter what wheel and pedals you have 😂😂
You’re not wrong 😂😂😂 pedals and wheelbase will never give you the depth of field, speed feel or g forces unfortunately
@brandongardner404 ye it definitely helps having good equipment tho like yourself, also I'm loving the new simagic setup, good luck with future Events bro, do you have any vdc settings for thrustmaster t300?
I view using this equipment for irl driving as more for teaching muscle memory and to give you a decent idea of how the car can handle especially if its a high quality simulation. Then all you would have to acclimate to is the irl feeling of driving.
DONT BUY MOZA, I purchased a R9 V2 and as soon as i got it out of the box it was defective, turns out there was rust and corrosion in the Base, they sent me a new board which did not fix the problem, which is when i found rust and corrosion inside of the base, so they had me send it back and they put a third main board in the base which guess what did not fix the problem and now their support is ignoring me, so i have purchased a brand new R9 V2 in August and i have never got to use it and now im stuck with a non functioning R9
oh man, that really blows man. hopefully you got something good instead!
Cough*Simagic*Cough
Just buy wat u can afford 😂😂😂 no need to spend $3000
true!
moza got flammed lol
i am struggling on the pedal part. I have the wheelbase picked, simucube pro, moza fsr wheel, Rig metal flagship.
as for pedals im looking at heuskinveld ultimate+ but thats so steep. not sure of any alternatives because i know you get what you pay for but i just want to buy once.
@@Sickling3 p1000’s with the hydraulic brakes is solid. But… to be honest… ultimate’s are solid