thanks for sharing all your experience. im in california with e10-e15, tuning an old porsche with a 2 barrel holley sniper, and the shop im at is new to tuning and fueling and im using your video to help break it all down for them and how we have to approach the tuning... thanks!
The problem with using gasoline AFR numbers with a car that runs E85 is that it will completely throw off the fuel flow and thus the VE numbers. You can still tune it, but know that the flue flow numbers will not be accurate.
hi at 6:04 are you sure it's 9.9/14.7 and not 14.7/9.9 ? i was thinking it was 14,7/9,9= 48% more fuel in mass and E85 is more often E70 and gazoline is more 14,68 then we have 14,68/10,7 = 37% more fuel in mass which will give something like around 30% in volume ?
It would be really nice if the terminator software had a button to convert the Target AFR table to target lambda. Then this mistake would have never happened. Maybe if enough of people bother Holley, they will include that feature in a future software update.
This typically comes down to personal preference. And I couldn’t agree more. Many people learn tuning using one or the other and really prefer to continue working with what they are familiar with. They really would help the community with lambda based tuning.
What about oxygenated race gas like MS103 or MS109? I know it’s not e-85 but I generally richen everything up about 8-10%. And at WOT go from 12:5 down to 12:2 . It’s a N/A 347. You think this is a safe ratio?
If you’re tuning with the Holley, selected your fuel type as gasoline, and have tuned your base table to achieve your targets, you should actually still be able to set your target AFR as though you are on pump gas. Every combo is different, but it is likely you are running too fat right now, and should raise your targets back up to 12.4-12.8.
Not in the Holley software. That is a HUGE gripe for a lot of people out there. But I’m so used to tuning with stock computer stuff that I prefer tuning to AFR anyways.
thanks for the great video .if i was running e60 and had the software in the gas scale would 14.6 for stoich and 10.8 to 11.2 full power be ok for a turbo boosted ls.
The short answer is yes. If you are going to tell the Holley your fuel type is gasoline in the dropdown, then you need to target the kinds of AFRs that you would if you had pure gasoline in the car (even though you’ll be on e60).
Not entirely correct. If you are using gasoline scaling, but running VE based fueling, your VE table numbers will be much higher than what they should be due to how Holley does the fueling. What your suggesting is common but typically done with Speed Density selected in the drop down menu. Like today I started my new build on e85 on ve based and it took 60+% VE to idle. No engine is at that idling. That is due to being on gas scale with e85 while on VE based fueling. If I switch it to e85 (and everything else), my VE table will have much lower values that make more sense.
So if I am running E85 and change my fuel type to E85 can I still reference AFR (14.7, 13.2 etc) in my target table and the program will do the math in the background? Or do I need to update my Target air fuel table to the Lambda values as you showed? Asking for a friend 😁
@@LeechMotorsports appreciate your video! I said Lambda values (watching too many videos) but you knew what I meant (E85 AFR values). 👍 on 93 gasoline I target 11.5 AFR in boost. So on E85 I have to update my target table to 7.6 AFR? Will my wideband gauge be reading 7.6 AFR? That will look weird to me coming from the import side, tuning on Hondata and Cobb where I always target the same AFR for 93 and E85 and have had no issues. Seems like that might be a big difference between the programs. I have so much more to learn about tuning on Holley. I'm tuning/learning on a Holley Sniper.
At which point do you decide to go with pump e85 over 93 for a turbo sbf holley setup? I have high coolant temps I cannot seem to get down very quick on 93 and my timing is conservative. Wondering if I should swap and get headaches of the E85 for a little more boost, timing, and hopefully cooler operating temps. What do you think? Thanks
On these older cars, I think of e85 as being the typical limit between a true street driven car, and a track car. I realize there are flex fuel options out there for tuning in the Holley. But I never recommend trying to make a flex fuel tune have the max possible performance available in a pure e85 tune. Just too risky. And with pump e85 being so inconsistent, it’s the kind of thing where I wouldn’t do e85 unless I was prepared to plug-in a laptop pretty much every time I drive. I do this on my coupe. But it rarely gets driven.
And e85 is so popular for newer cars due to the common practice of having much higher compression than most of the sbf stuff out there. And fuel systems/factory efi system so commonly ready for e85 off the showroom floor.
@@LeechMotorsports thank you for your time and advice man 👍🏻. I a,ways have the laptop and try to log each drive. I think I am near the limits of 93 and meth injection isn’t an option I want. Was hoping to make some progress to get this car running cooler and go from 10lbs boost to 12-13 possibly. I think my compression is high 8s or low 9s.
At that compression, you should be able to run upwards of 13-14 psi on pump gas. However, you could definitely make more power on e85 and safely turn it up even more if you feel so inclined. I wouldn’t count on it bringing the engine temps down though. Do you have enough injector, line size, and pump to support that change?
@@LeechMotorsports currently have deka 80s, aeromotive a1000, return, I’m drawing a blank right now on line size but I believe it’s adequate. Thank you for helping me
@@LeechMotorsports thanks for the reply! I’m redoing my fuel lines now once I get the car going again If your interested I could send you a run down of the motor and my tune for a review video it’s a pretty stout vortech 306
@@LeechMotorsports no I don't have the same setup. I'm running blow thru so I'm just going off the gauge. My gauge is setup for regular gas at 14.7. I'm thinking it's real close tho as 14.7 gas = 1.00 lambda= 9.7 e85.
This video help me for what I was looking for in just 0.01 seconds of the video, Thanks new subs
For some reason this never showed up in searches. Algorithm spit it out today. Great info and explained well for a novice knuckle dragger. Thanks
thanks for sharing all your experience. im in california with e10-e15, tuning an old porsche with a 2 barrel holley sniper, and the shop im at is new to tuning and fueling and im using your video to help break it all down for them and how we have to approach the tuning... thanks!
I can see that drop down tab being a problem
I would assume that it was making the corrections for me but apparently not
Good info 👍
Can you make a video on timing for a turbo 302 and adjusting the fuel table for the Terminator x
The problem with using gasoline AFR numbers with a car that runs E85 is that it will completely throw off the fuel flow and thus the VE numbers. You can still tune it, but know that the flue flow numbers will not be accurate.
hi at 6:04 are you sure it's 9.9/14.7 and not 14.7/9.9 ? i was thinking it was 14,7/9,9= 48% more fuel in mass and E85 is more often E70 and gazoline is more 14,68 then we have 14,68/10,7 = 37% more fuel in mass which will give something like around 30% in volume ?
Great Video
Thanks pablo!
It would be really nice if the terminator software had a button to convert the Target AFR table to target lambda. Then this mistake would have never happened. Maybe if enough of people bother Holley, they will include that feature in a future software update.
This typically comes down to personal preference. And I couldn’t agree more. Many people learn tuning using one or the other and really prefer to continue working with what they are familiar with. They really would help the community with lambda based tuning.
I'm always curious about E10 vs real gas, either 87 or 93 octane.
What about oxygenated race gas like MS103 or MS109? I know it’s not e-85 but I generally richen everything up about 8-10%. And at WOT go from 12:5 down to 12:2 . It’s a N/A 347. You think this is a safe ratio?
If you’re tuning with the Holley, selected your fuel type as gasoline, and have tuned your base table to achieve your targets, you should actually still be able to set your target AFR as though you are on pump gas. Every combo is different, but it is likely you are running too fat right now, and should raise your targets back up to 12.4-12.8.
Is there no way to tune with lambda instead of a/f?
Not in the Holley software. That is a HUGE gripe for a lot of people out there. But I’m so used to tuning with stock computer stuff that I prefer tuning to AFR anyways.
thanks for the great video .if i was running e60 and had the software in the gas scale would 14.6 for stoich and 10.8 to 11.2 full power be ok for a turbo boosted ls.
I can not speak to LS tuning. I do not have any experience with those engines, and do not know what kinds of targets they like.
@@LeechMotorsports ok thanks but would you still fill in your fuel map with these gas figures on e60 thats what i really ment to say.
The short answer is yes. If you are going to tell the Holley your fuel type is gasoline in the dropdown, then you need to target the kinds of AFRs that you would if you had pure gasoline in the car (even though you’ll be on e60).
@@LeechMotorsports thank you very much for your time .
Not entirely correct. If you are using gasoline scaling, but running VE based fueling, your VE table numbers will be much higher than what they should be due to how Holley does the fueling.
What your suggesting is common but typically done with Speed Density selected in the drop down menu.
Like today I started my new build on e85 on ve based and it took 60+% VE to idle. No engine is at that idling. That is due to being on gas scale with e85 while on VE based fueling. If I switch it to e85 (and everything else), my VE table will have much lower values that make more sense.
So if I am running E85 and change my fuel type to E85 can I still reference AFR (14.7, 13.2 etc) in my target table and the program will do the math in the background? Or do I need to update my Target air fuel table to the Lambda values as you showed? Asking for a friend 😁
If you change the fuel type in the software to E85, then you need to target AFRs that make sense for e85 like in the 9s.
@@LeechMotorsports appreciate your video! I said Lambda values (watching too many videos) but you knew what I meant (E85 AFR values). 👍 on 93 gasoline I target 11.5 AFR in boost. So on E85 I have to update my target table to 7.6 AFR? Will my wideband gauge be reading 7.6 AFR? That will look weird to me coming from the import side, tuning on Hondata and Cobb where I always target the same AFR for 93 and E85 and have had no issues. Seems like that might be a big difference between the programs. I have so much more to learn about tuning on Holley. I'm tuning/learning on a Holley Sniper.
At which point do you decide to go with pump e85 over 93 for a turbo sbf holley setup? I have high coolant temps I cannot seem to get down very quick on 93 and my timing is conservative. Wondering if I should swap and get headaches of the E85 for a little more boost, timing, and hopefully cooler operating temps. What do you think? Thanks
On these older cars, I think of e85 as being the typical limit between a true street driven car, and a track car. I realize there are flex fuel options out there for tuning in the Holley. But I never recommend trying to make a flex fuel tune have the max possible performance available in a pure e85 tune. Just too risky. And with pump e85 being so inconsistent, it’s the kind of thing where I wouldn’t do e85 unless I was prepared to plug-in a laptop pretty much every time I drive. I do this on my coupe. But it rarely gets driven.
And e85 is so popular for newer cars due to the common practice of having much higher compression than most of the sbf stuff out there. And fuel systems/factory efi system so commonly ready for e85 off the showroom floor.
@@LeechMotorsports thank you for your time and advice man 👍🏻. I a,ways have the laptop and try to log each drive. I think I am near the limits of 93 and meth injection isn’t an option I want. Was hoping to make some progress to get this car running cooler and go from 10lbs boost to 12-13 possibly. I think my compression is high 8s or low 9s.
At that compression, you should be able to run upwards of 13-14 psi on pump gas. However, you could definitely make more power on e85 and safely turn it up even more if you feel so inclined. I wouldn’t count on it bringing the engine temps down though. Do you have enough injector, line size, and pump to support that change?
@@LeechMotorsports currently have deka 80s, aeromotive a1000, return, I’m drawing a blank right now on line size but I believe it’s adequate. Thank you for helping me
So if your running e85 and you have gasoline selected and gas afr command would you be ok or ??
That is correct.
And I prefer to tune with the Holley exactly that way as my brain is more wired to pump gas target numbers.
@@LeechMotorsports thanks for the reply! I’m redoing my fuel lines now once I get the car going again If your interested I could send you a run down of the motor and my tune for a review video it’s a pretty stout vortech 306
Please do.
So basically you saying I can run run gasoline air fuel ratio but the calculations got to be according to E85
So idling at 10.0 on e85 is fine?
Yeah as long as you selected your fuel type as ethanol that should be close.
@@LeechMotorsports no I don't have the same setup. I'm running blow thru so I'm just going off the gauge. My gauge is setup for regular gas at 14.7. I'm thinking it's real close tho as 14.7 gas = 1.00 lambda= 9.7 e85.
Need to post up your PayPal info. You've helped me out alot.
I really appreciate you! If you do feel so inclined, you can donate at the link below.
www.paypal.com/paypalme/theleech405
I miss the Terminator X how to series what happened to them LoL....
Just too many cars being tuned right now. Cant find the time. I promise I’ll be getting back to it soon though. Got a stack of topics I want to do.