How My DeMan 4.5L Spyder Made MORE Power on WORSE Gas! - TheSmokingTire
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 ноя 2024
- Our friend Mitch McKee from M-Engineering convinced us that he could make Matt's 718 Spyder 4.5L run properly on 91 octane fuel, rather than the 98 octane he's been running for two years. With a pro-tune, we might not even lose too much power, he said. So with some time booked on the dyno, they got it done, and with an incredibly surprising result!
Thanks to M-Engineering
www.m-engineer...
Thanks to World Motorsports
world-motorspo...
Learn more about the DeMan 4.5L Upgrade for Cayman GT4 & 718 Spyder!
demanmotorspor...
Use Off The Record! and ALWAYS fight your tickets! Enter code TSTPOD for a 10% discount on your first case on the Off The Record app, or go to off-the-record...
New merch! Grab a shirt or hoodie and support us! thesmokingtire...
Want to watch the live stream, get ad-free podcasts, or exclusive podcasts? Join our Patreon: / thesmokingtirepodcast
Follow us!
/ thesmokingtire
/ therealzackklapman
Check out our PODCAST! Over 100,000 listeners and counting!
RUclips: / thesmokingtirepodcast
Spotify: open.spotify.c...
Apple podcasts: podcasts.apple...
Google Podcasts: podcasts.googl...
NEW SHIRTS!
www.blipshift....
Pro-Tuning my DeMan 4.5L Spyder Made MORE Power on WORSE Gas! - TheSmokingTire
#Demangt4
#mengineeringprotune
500whp in a Boxster is insane. Must be an absolute blast to drive.
@@CharlieBeveridgeelaborate please…
@@CharlieBeveridgeWhat? 500+ WHP on a mustang dyno for an NA Baxter is nutty
@@CharlieBeveridge I believe it make more, because it a Mustang dyno.
@@frederickcook87he’s prolly saying the car pulls more timing and makes less power as the ambient air heat soaks the IATs
Yes I know it’s NA but the outside air is still hot…
@@Yaboybashcar will heat soak a lot faster on the dyno than the road…
Hell yeah! More strawberry shortcake content
Rick Deman should collaborate with M-Engineering and offer their tunes with his 4.5L as standard. It’s a win-win for everyone.
We already have! The last 5 718 cars out have M Tune.
All of the 992 GT3 4.5’s have M tunes from the get go for over 2 years now
@@rickdeman5555 so cool to hear! I'm usually pretty good at finding stuff on these here interwebz but I hadn't heard that until now! I'm waiting for the right time for a 4.5 for my Miami Blue Spyder but I was hesitant given the need to mix up stuff to get to 98 octane!
@@rickdeman5555 Making me want to send out my today-delivered GTS 4.0! One day!
Quick explanation as to why you gained HP and saw less soot out the back after the tune and fuel switch, is because that OTS tune you got from Deman originally was a very safe (rich) tune, meant to run well on a wide range of cars with slightly different climates and parts.
This new pro tune, is based only on your car, engine parts list, and climate. They are able to extract all the power potential with a more aggressive and leaner tune utilizing less octane, which is why you see less soot and it sounds smoother/cleaner while also making more power.
Time to rip!
Only informed comment I've seen on this video. People sounding off on DeMan for not providing aggressive fuel/timing maps without having it on a chassis dyno are clueless.
Every time I see your Spyder I can't get over how perfect your spec is. Color, wheels, the everything.
same. It matches Porsche emblem horse - i mean what is the better color than horse dong pink ;)
Pretty nice spec, have to admit. Not your average boring grey colour.
I have to say I disagree. Usually a fan of Matt's taste but this is just.... Wrong. frozen berry metallic looks like the colour my balls went after my vasectomy, the wheels belong on a corvette and the red interior just... Clashes somehow? Also don't get the stroked engine in lightweight sports car but there you go. Each to their own, it's what makes the world an interesting place!
@@sinmogen I agree. I hate the color with every fiber of my being.
Are you colour blind?
Mad scientist Mitch did it!
We need more of this thing Matt, its so cool! 😍
Not sure you could have done it much better!
2:05 A tuner doing a back up of the original tune. What a professional! Take notes people
Mitch and crew is amazing, they did my Carrera T years ago and it was crazy , it’s almost unbelievable how strong this engine is!!!! Congrats
I love the Spyder content. I may go down the DeMan route with my 991.1 C2S. Your content on it is one of the major reasons that I’m even considering it.
Good RUclipsr face/thumbnail on this one and this is really the Goldilocks length of a video. I watched the whole thing. Nice work!
Thanks Matt-- Looks like I'll be getting an M engineering tune for my Deman 4.5.
500 wheel na power in that thing is perfect, beautiful machine Mat, you deserve all the good that comes your way brother. Peace from Australia
Been wanting more content on this car… very close to pulling the trigger on the DeMan experience on a 991.1S. Looks like you still love yours.
Yikes!!! Congrats Matt. Taking a ride in a 981 4.5 ruined it for me, having to get back in my stock GT4.
Congrats Matt on an incredible engine build and finding convenience without having to have your secret sauce poured in at every fill up. Those numbers are crazy good. About 600 hp at the crank!! damn!
Awesome Matt, happy to hear from it maybe in another driving video?
This build has convinced me to not bother upgrading to a SRS and do a 4.5 on my 6MT Spyder down the road. I can’t even fathom what your car is like to drive. Such an incredible machine - the next best thing to a CGT. Hope you enjoy it for many more years and miles in good health!
Have a DS1 tune on my RS3 and an M-Engineering tune on my 718 4.0. Mitch is the man!
Amazing results Matt! Super-happy for you.
Beautiful car. 👍
Can't believe its been 2 years. Car is epic, color specs & mods. ....and you own two, the other one at the bottom of the sea. 🙌🏁🎸
Great numbers! Deman is a builder more than a tuner so this is an awesome combo. One thing for the haters, Deman builds and tunes the engines for race and street use. The IAT on the boxster / cayman can get real hot cause mid-engine with no venting and long intake path not to mention the front side rads heat air on the way into the side intakes. Not a big deal for a street car but a problem for race cars in traffic. Thats why they added the higher side window intakes on the 718 Clubsport evo and later the rs models, cooler IATs. A little more fueling and octane can help a lot when things are race car hot.
That’s a hot motor you go Matt! My little 3.4L 981 is envious. Doubt that booster was producing 98 AKI. On E85 you might see +60-90 whp if you have enough fuel flow. The 4.0L of the shelf E85 tunes are getting close to 500 crank.
Little 3.4? Meanwhile here I am with the 2.7...
@Xaluber 2.7? Meanwhile here I am with a Miata.
981 Boxster S ganggggg
@@JETZcorp Miata? Meanwhile here I am with a moped
That torque curve is a goddamn torque TABLE lol. 300+ lb-ft of torque from 3000 to 8000+?!?
I noticed that too, that’s insane. Super flat torque
Yeah the torque curve on the 718 4.0 is a huge improvement from the 981 3.8 even in stock form without all of this done
My FrozenBerry Metallica Cayman GTS 4.0 will be making a visit to M-Engineering early next year. Love your car Matt
Brilliant results, looking forward to a driving impression video now!
Really cool to see more build/technical content in the channel.
Kinda wild that the DeMan doesn't include custom tuning to your preferred octane when you do a build with them. I'm sure that engine alone cost more than my Boxster!
Absolutely crazy that someone would spend that much and not get a proper tune for it. This isnt some intake and exhaust 'stage 1' setup.
@@CussCuss16They do tune it just not for 91
@@jryalls Not properly, that is the whole point of this video. If it was tuned properly in the first place they would not gain power going to a proper tune on 91.
@@CussCuss16 not properly? matt literally is with some of the leading experts in ECU tuning of course they are gonna do a better job.
@@Anouyzthe demans tune is their OTS tune. It's not a custom tune. Had they done a custom tune on it for 98 there would not be an increase going to 91.
Awesome car Matt! Incredible N/A power! 💪
Your Spyder is absolutely perfect, what a hell of a car Matt. I dream of having a car that awesome LOL.
Mitch is the man.
This is fantastic. Congrats!
This could only mean one thing. We’re gonna get another shortcake video and I’m all here for it! Easily my favorite of the collection
How much power with a new map on 98 octane?
I'd be interested to know that.
Probably close to 540 wheel
This video would have been MUCH better with a 98 octane custom tune on the same dyno for comparison.
That part
The answer is “all of them”
Maybe less power.
That boost-tane stuff probably wasn't doing as much as you thought it was, plus a custom tune vs a basic tune that is meant to be more safe than produce absolute peak power, it's no surprise you made more power.
Congratulations Matt and thank you for sharing
Why no test drive afterwards?
The first guy who tuned it was probably very conservative with his tune on 98. This tune may be more aggressive.”
More power on 91, well done
Can't wait for the driving vid!
Amazing car. The Porsche crests on the center caps would bring it home imo
Less soot and sounding more smooth, that sounds like it would also get better fuel economy then.
Not like that was the main goal obviously, but normally when an engine sounds happier it's also burning fuel more efficiently and therefore better fuel economy.
Nothing better than to have a great car that you can just get in and drive without having to worry about the fuel you're running. Can't wait to see the next canyon drive in this car.
Sick Matt !
Yep. They did this one of two ways or a combination of both, Richer lambda and more timing or leaner lambda and less timing. Mitch is king.
Very respectable numbers especially on a Mustang Dyno.
98 octane was definitely still in the lines. Three pulls definitely doesn't eat up 2 gallons of gas.
That is so seriously impressive!
Impressive!
Love your car! This is Awesome!
It's crazy that you've gotten the boxster 2 years ago already, i feel like just last week you were talking about the cargo ship that lost the first one
Makes me wonder how much power it would be making if Mitch worked his magic on the 98 octane tune
What a beast. 💪
That color combo goes crazy 🤤
Damn, 527 at the wheels is crazy. 4.5 has my respect.
One of the best car youtubers, quality content
This is hardly surprising and is commonly known by engine builders. There is the same amount of energy in common octanes of gas. High octane is used, not because it has more 'power,' but to tolerate higher compression and timing advance. To do this, inhibitors are added to control detonation, but it's a trade-off. This actually lowers the amount of energy available from the fuel . Modern engines with electronic controls and flow/turbulence management of the combustion chamber can tolerate lower octane for the same, if not greater, power. We used to run our Ford drag car on 86 oct because headwork and forged pistons lowered pinging to survivable levels. This was 40 years ago. Of course, diesel stores 11% more energy than gasoline,. Needless to say, diesels are robust because of the level of detenonation that is part of their basic engineering.
And also reliabliity, the power is basicly the same with the fuels but the knock resistance increases. Things like E85 also aids cooling.
Unfortunately, a lot of 'car guys' don't know or care to learn about cars. If it says Premium, it must be better..😅
Most of my buddies would just advance the timing as far as possible and run the highest octane they could, thinking it was making them faster. They'd lose noticeable torque down low and still not make the same power up top as me running 87.
I'm surprised I had to scroll down this far to see this. Lower octane is definitely a more volatile and hot boom than the higher octane. The only time you're going to see a big difference between lower and higher octane on a street car is your turbo charged applications. You can crank up the boost a lot more on a higher octane gas than a lower. NA cars are severely limited in their ability to jam as much air in a cylinder as possible, so lower octane will almost always be better (with a tune) than higher octane.
@@ryanmolloy5421 Likewise people are confused with more boost = more power and lower the compression ratio.
Still older tech and methods/myths are floating about.
I was so in doubt about the wheel color when I first saw but my god it looks magnificent.
Glad you got rid of the orange sauce. I had charles and mitch to do @miamimiles deman touring once he brought it over here. Had to sign 500 waivers to undergo the process. Was night and day after the m tune. Rick should exclusively use mitch tunes imo
M-Engineering is now our Tuning partner..
@@rickdeman5555 thats awesome!! I drove micks car again recently it was superb! Glad you guys are continuing to improve the platform
Nice! dyno tuning is expensable now :P
And this is done without blowing air into the intake vents...impressive!
Just goes to show it’s all in the tune!
That is one frisky Spyder, hoping to see numbers for what that tune does with good fuel also!
Your car is awesome! That's all I can say.
When Sam comes back into town you have get him behind the wheel for a video
You gonna need Jason Fensk from Eengineering Explained and his white board ! 🙂
You DeMan Matt!
I like when you asked the tuner “how did that happen?!” He is like with a smug annoyed look “we do this everyday.”
Looking forward to a 6mo follow up video to hear how well this worked out.
doing the face in the caption thing, welcome 🤣
Enjoy the good surprises, hopefully they are enough to offset the bad surprises.
Thats a beast!!!!💀💀
100% need a test drive video
Cool video and the data doesn’t lie but it really depends on how safe your tuner sets the tune up. Sounds like it was running rich which is generally considered “safer”.
Also when comparing dyno results looking at the area under the curve is a better relative comparison.
Great video 👏👏👍
Higher Octane does not provide more performance, the energy content of the fuel is the same, just the ignition point is higher up. A higher octane number prevents the fuel from igniting spontaneously in a hot engine and during compression. This produces the so-called engine knocking, which causes massive damage to the engine. Incorrect ignition with low octane can lead to a loss of performance, but higher octane does not lead to increased performance.
BTW, pure petrochemical fuel has about 10% more energy than alcohol mixed with gasoline (biofuel). For maximum performance, you should fill up with the fuel with the least amount of biofuel.
Power per liter in kwh: Ethanol 5.9, fuel/petrol 8.8, Diesel 10.0
i hope there are really no drawbacks
Lower octane will make more power but it is more prone to detonation which will put a hole in your piston. Nitromethane, for example, is about 50 octane.
Changing Fuel octane, this fast, in any car. WON"T give correct figures. Matt needed to do this test at least weeks apart.
@@Mexxx65says who? Race Fuentes are routinely done w/ the customer doing some test pulls on pump gas to drain the tank. Filling w/ race gas, driving for about fifteen minutes and then tuning. This is no different.
Not how that works, nitromethane doesnt make more power because of its lower octane. Its an oxygenated fuel and you can run a ton more fuel due to its stoichiometric ratio if you can support the injection volume needed
@@Bob_Smith19 Wrong. Changing to a different octane rating fuel, at least, requires the engine to use a full tank of fuel, before the engine ECU programming becomes fully optimized, to take full advantage (or disadvantage) of the different octane fuel used. If you don't let the engine adjust to the new octane fuel, with a full tank. You are not measuring any meaningful data./ifferecnces of the 2 fuels used.
@michelhadid but octane rating is not indicative of the power that can be made from the fuel.
This is why I used M-Engineering on my GTS 4.0 years ago. These guys know what they are doing.
How’s noticeable is the difference? Considering it for my GTS 4.0 too
@@GagootzGuy I have the Kline exhaust (muffler + OAP). ME was able to do a stage 2. Huge advantage ith ME is being able to send them logs from street pull or dyno and they can tweak the maps to your specific car & fuel. The difference in performance is very noticeable. Here it is with short gearing ruclips.net/video/B9a2HaqH_3Q/видео.html
@@ianf2012 this is awesome, thank you!
What a tease! Please tell me you've got a before and after driving video coming up??
Offtopic: Where is the Z4 manual review???
Similar things happened when I tuned my C5 Z06 from Texas 93 to California 91. Less soot, smoother running and more power. Pro tunes are the only way to go.
I'm not surprised really, canned tune vs custom dyno tune, the custom dyno tune will almost always be better.
Exactly. Off the shelve tunes never work properly. They might work OK, but still are far far away from what an engican actually produce.
I mean, it’s not exactly a “canned tune” given the engine….
@@joetacchino4470 it was a basic tune from the engine builder, which is usually OK for all 4.5 engines they are making, but is still very compromised.
@@joetacchino4470 It'll definitely be more conservative with less aggressive timing just to allow for variances between engine builds and to guarantee someone doesn't blow an engine when they don't put the octane booster.
@@vvevvevvvvif you’re spending megabucks on an engine build you’d expect a top-notch tune to go with it as part of the deal, so anyone ought to be genuinely shocked by this result. The switch from 98 to 91 (103 to 95 for European viewers) will have cost around 5% in power, so to then gain 5% shows DeMan were around 10% away from achieving optimal output, which is appalling for the money Matt spent.
A good custom tune is always king.
Kinda an odd question for you but what kind of shirt is that? It looks like it fits you well and as a stocky guy myself, I'm always up for recommendations for shirts that fit well.
Appreciate it, man.
very interesting video
That is an impressive package, and I completely believe the dyno results. However, I do NOT believe the DeMan stated 450 lb.ft torque figure out of a 4.5L NA flat-6. If that were true, the tested 356.7 lb.ft at the wheels would indicate almost 21% driveline loss(!) through a manual, which is bonkers. Even for a modern slushbox, that number would be high.
Given the dynoed power of 517.6 HP, and the rated power of 568 HP, that would only be an 8.9% parasitic loss, which is about what a manual should have (around 10%), so the 568 flywheel power number is completely believable. At that same 8.9% loss, that would indicate an engine making 391.5 lb.ft of torque at the flywheel, which seems much more believable, and is still very high for only 4.5L NA.
BONUS: Using that same 8.9% driveline loss number, on the final 91 octane tune (527.6 HP, 368.2 lb.ft at the wheels) that calculates out to 579 HP and 404 lb.ft of torque at the flywheel!
Damn I was waiting for this and I know Zack hinted at the results being good but this is NOT what I was expecting either. I'm astounded how much power these N/A engines are making with tunes even from stock but this seems nuts. Is it more aggressive than Rick's tune and maybe Rick just tunes them super conservative for warranty reasons or what? Will be interesting to see how he responds. I know they are doing their own pump gas tunes finally over there as well.
Im here and I love this car
500+ whp N/A 👀. 🔥🔥🔥
That is such a gorgeous machine ❤😍👌
Probably gonna see better fuel economy tune too. OtS tune should get you through break-in an then a pro-tune will maximize efficiency specifically for that engine in the specific envirnoment it's gonna be in 🤘🏽
I’m guessing that the engine builders tune is purposely conservative for reliability reasons.
Of course it is. They don’t want blown engines.
That has to be the best driving car. Love the spec. Just curious, have you talked to Deman about it? Curious if they run it a bit rich for a reason.
So you could do this to a gt3? Since its the same motor? Or rs?
517 to the wheels on a mustang dyno is pretty impressive.
Let's see the AF charts though. The "soot" going away tell me they are just leaning it out. Sounds like they've removed all safety margins.
Best moment of the video on the thumbnail
Amazing work. Did they create a full-kill 98 octane map?
what happens if you keep running 98 octane, but do the pro tune as well? do you bump up from 525-530ish to even more?
Mustang dyno notoriously reads less than most dynos, so it definitely has big power!
Not sure I’d want a a shop that can’t calibrate a dyno to tune my car