Yeah dodging the charge feels wrong I'd also like to see his hurtbox because there have been some times where I'm pretty sure my weapon phased through him
@@arcky4137 it's not about it being hard, it just feels kinda bad. Bloodborne's hot dog has a shitty hitbox on some of his bites. you can dodge them consistently but it still sucks
godskin is not a major boss, that's why. It's just a midstage boss that was likely given very little thought beyond making sure it was reasonably beatable, which it is, annoyance aside.
Same, he is my favorite boss/enemy/character from any fiction. His lore music fight and design is just peak. I love him so much i'm gonna get a tattoo of him. Originally I wanted malektih but I wanted to see what the dlc had to offer and I'm very impressed, especially by messmer, midra, and consort
@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd it shouldnt matter if hes a midstage boss, there should still be care put in to make them both work in a duo fight instead of just plopping two enemies in an arena
@@GreiratBut they did care into making them work as a duo boss, that's why their AI actually takes turns into approaching you and why that fight is even doable without summoning Bernahl or a spirit. It's why their HP is so low, for example. Why it's so easy to trivialize with a DPS check, etc.
They kinda sometimes just don't cook at all. Bed of Chaos, Lud and Zallen, Wolnir, Rom. At least this game cheesing the bad ones makes them feel less worse.
Most are fairly tight, but the tracking on some of his moves are kinda of bs imo. His delayed charged trust is the one I have some complaints. It’s got a very tight window for strafing it, cuz he can turn almost like 180 right before it hits, it just looks bad visually if you were strafing to his right but didn’t run fast enough and he just turns and snipe you lol.
@@yanli111 Are you talking about the one where the spear drags in the ground a bit? Because that attack is kind of bullshit as I swear it has a lingering hitbox.
@@AceAviations2 yup, that’s the one. It’s just super delayed to try can catch souls veteran, similar to morgot/margit’s raising weapon for like 5 sec, except messemer’s delayed attack have such “good” tracking that the turn it self looks super bad and punishes you for not strafing perfectly, whereas morgot’s delayed hits can strafed easily as a way to encourage you to do so.
Recently beat Messmer. I've very little skill, but I'm glad you basically visualized the "That's gonna hit me" chant I had in my head basically the whole fight.
A great time to appreciate the art team and animators. FS isn’t know for their graphical fidelity but their games are such a wonder to behold. The story these characters tell with their move sets, mesmerizing.
art style > fidelity no idea why companies always pushed fidelity. all it does is make it so the game runs like shit, and if people don't have the hardware they can't play elden ring runs decently well on my 11 year old PC, but I can't play modern graphic intensive games
@@__Man_ if you're right up against him when he starts it you have almost no time at all to clear the AoE. If you're in an animation for even a moment, you're fucked. and you still have several snakes to avoid after the fact you *can* run away from it, but it's at least as oppressive if not way worse than waterfowl.
@yikes6758 I'm gonna have to disagree. Cuz even if you're right next to him, the snakes knock you down which allows you to avoid most of the attack. I never had any trouble with that move
As cool as the fire effects are, they can be really misleading... especially on that spear spin wind up, you would expect the first turn to have a hitbox, but apparently they have none
As a dev you should always put the hitboxes at the players favor, this is why "coyote time" (stepping on air slightly off the edge) is an intended feature in games like platformers, and From does similar things throughout most of the game except when doing fire and other such effects, they even seem to over-extend the collision.
Great vid, I knew that grab was a little too big haha. Visualizing his attacks in slow motion like this make me think Messmer is actually blind (lore-wise), his repeated thrusting attack is more “in your general direction” than on your precise position, for single thrusts the snakes can help him triangulate but for that one he just guesses! And most of his attacks are big spins and AoEs for that reason too. In phase 2, the base serpent has almost no idea where you are, it’s just hoping its giant body and mouth hit you. Fascinating! (Not to mention the animations and sound design on this boss are amazing
In one of Hawkshaw recent videos, someone speculated that Messmer is indeed blind, because his eye is replaced with Marika's scarseal, and in the intro cutscene, we see that he sees you using the snake, not from the perspective of his actual eye.
His vertical spin hitbox into the spear uppercut and slam confused me since I got hit by it inconsistently when trying to dodge it. Interesting to see how it really works here, good video
one of my favorite fights in all of elden ring, maybe even the best. enjoyed it a lot, challenged my build just enough to tweak my summon and buffs but not enough to have to respec.
He got me with his grab so many times, even if it’s decently telegraphed I still panic roll too early a lot of the time and it does such insane damage even at 60V
@@Sharkamfssthere are a lot of bs hitboxes but the main problem is the damage and the like, 5 completely unpunishable moves he gets in phase 2, plus you can’t see anything half the time
@TheGrillMaster1 Damage is a bit high but the recent scadutree buff should address that. Also I can only think of two moves you can't punish, his orbital strike and his T-pose explosion. What other attacks can't you punish?
Really wanted to see the double delayed, swipe then slide up attack (the same as the finish of a fire sword combo, but without the fire) as I felt the hitbox on that laggered for a few too many frames
something i'm curious about is the messmer & snake hurtbox. in the 2nd phase, when you get to punish the snake's attack combo it felt like i was doing double damage. like the messmer & snake hurtboxes were active at the same time.... but maybe the snake is just weaker?
1:09 so that’s why dodging to the right always worked…. the hit box starts left before going right, by the time he strikes right, I’m already too far from the hitbox to be hurt
I wonder why FromSoft games are the only games (other than Fighting games) that these kind of videos. I mean, I was looking for hitbox data on DMC games but couldn't find a single video.
Maybe because of how notoriously disjointed some of the hitboxes are in this types of games. So it encourages people to check them and be like "Why tf did I get by that one grab"
@@aceofshakes531 that's not necessarily the only reason, I think. It's not like FromSoft has the worst hitboxes in the gaming industry. For example, there's so many "cherry-picked" videos that also showcase how accurate their hitbox is (and other fans drooling over them). I believe it's about how much FromSoft demands from the player (like how much the attack tracks the player or how little space the attack has as safe space) along with how big of a punishment you face for getting hit (losing tons of health). Compare them to other games (specially in normal difficulty), games expect you to handle multiple enemies at once so dodging away often works and even if it doesn't, the damage is not too much. They have their own difficulties, often with numbers or enemy variety or specific ways to handle specific enemies, but they don't have to be nearly as accurate and/or dedicated as FromSoft games. Like you can do some amazing combos in DMC 5 if you can make split second dodge and combos, but doing average won't hurt you that bad. As for fighting games, it's mainly because of esports lvl pvp fights. Still weird that FromSoft is more or less the only company whose games get analyzed this thoroughly. When was the last time you saw so many dataminers showing datamined info on YT regularly for Resident Evil (or some other franchise)?
this attack here be bizarre 1:09 ... the way i 'dodged' it was just by walking into him like here 2:43 . cus i guess the hitbox is only active near the spear's end? but, it's just funny that it can be done. tbh, you could argue that more attacks should have some type of 'walk dodge' rather than only rolling. just to mix it up.
I was very interested to see the hitbox of his aoe snake move, where a bunch of them come out, since I think that is one of the worst hitboxes of the dlc, if not any souls game. You can get hit by a snake that fully whiffs you and will get immediately one shot if you’re in the middle of it. Unfortunately it seems it wasn’t shown? :(
@@Domo3000 Yes thank you 🙏 I now see the snakes after the first part of the attack actually have good hitboxes, but the attack itself is just one massive bubble around him, which is probably what I was referring to 💀
It wasn't short at all pre-nerf (and no bleed obviously), now it's a pushover like everything before radahn. What a unnecessary nerf to the entire DLC when you can just summon mimic tear or use fingerprint shield and stop worrying about the game's difficulty.
@@theobell2002 Increasing power overall before your 16th scadutree blessing (something that barely anyone reached) by 20% on top of also increasing resistances by 20% is a huge nerf to the entire dlc pre-radahn.
@@devondorr8212 In my experience it never really worked well to not roll a grab, not in any other FromSoftware game and not in Elden Ring so I just assumed I should always roll.
After seeing this I can see why some people say he is so easy. 90% of my dodges are dodging non existent hitboxes of things that LOOK like they should have hitboxes but in reality they do not. The good players figured that out and that's why people like me are staring at them wondering how the fuck those dodges work. It turns out it's just shitty vfx design and movements that look like attacks but aren't.
I think this is more of a problem with fromsoft slowly transitioning into devil may cry wannabe for a wider audience by making longer and longer and longer and longer and more flashy and anime attacks
this stuff has existed all the way back in demon's souls with old king allant and penetrator, artorias & manus in ds1, alonne & fume knight is ds2, basically every boss in bloodborne, ds3, sekiro, this game....
@@Celatra You cannot compare Demon´s Souls to this, I´m sorry but you just cannot the longest combo in Demon´s Souls had three hits, maybe four and that was mostly due to unfortunate RNG the difficulty in Demons Souls often came in the form of large AoE attacks like King Allants that covered half the room or the Flamelurkers repeated ground fire pounce some of this carried over to Dark Souls I where Ornstein/Smough, and most notably the notorious Stray Demon/Firesage made use of these AoE attacks that were difficult to roll out of if you did not get enough distance Artorias also did mostly 3-4 hits in a chain before pausing or retreating and Manus five hit wombo-combo was essentially more of a grab attack that served as the predecessor for the Soul of Cinders flame sword combo, but gave you a generous warning and usually enough time to retreat The Fume Knight and Sir Alonne also did mostly 3-4 attacks until they paused again for a bit, the only increase in difficulty were some variations in their recovery timings and the Blue Smelter Demon introducing deliberately delayed attacks for the first time, in fact 3 hit combos were very popular in DS 2 as multible enemies and bosses use them or variations of them Bloodborne had a few enemies with longer combos like Orphan of Kos but in turn gave you a more nimble character and a stun mechanic to combat them then came Dark Souls III and the age of the Wombo-Combo truly began: Pontiff Sulyvahn, Slave Knight Gael, Soul of Cinder, Friede, etc. even though I´d argue those were still relatively tame compared so some of Sekiros and Elden Rings Combos
It’s moreso that FS is hitting the difficulty and design ceiling of the dark souls “roll, punish” combat loop. At some point, the way it works is not complex or refined enough for them to meaningfully increase the difficulty, which is imo why they were experimenting with the deflect tear in the dlc. Sekiro combat allows for much longer and more complex combos and bossfights in general as it turns defense into an offensive measure, with each deflect pushing the fight closer to completion. I think the final boss of the DLC is sort of a perfect example of why the souls combat loop is at its breaking point, because it is genuinely the least fun I have ever had fighting an FS boss, even more so than bed of chaos.
Elden Ring has cleaner hitboxes than something like Bloodborne or DS3, where a dash attack or a projectile could hit a meter away from you. The problem is that this DLC has some huge hitboxes. Fromsoft will probably fix them like they did with the original Radahn.
Player: "i have literal invincibility when i roll" Boss: "i can grab you and cant block" Player: "these hitboxes suck i hate you Miyazaki im refunding on steam"
I want to say: "Yeah, that seems like the usual Fromsoft." But that's a bit disappointing to think isn't it? Nothing here seems too outrageous, but you'd think by now From is able to squish cones when on blades like this spear, or not make grab hitboxes the size of their upper bodies.
Grabs tend to be VERY generously telegraphed, as is the case with messmer's grab. I don't think the actual hitbox is the issue, it's just that by the nature of the grab, they either have to make the hitbox so small(the size of his hand) that it becomes too weak of a move, or make it a threatening size at the cost of having to TP you sometimes.
Only bad hitbox here is the grab. Other than that, you should just see the attack coming and press dodge. The player will never think “Aha that swing will miss by 10cm so I can just stand here and spam r1!” unless they have super vision.
The snake hit boxes are way too big. Idk how fromsoft makes the cleanest and simultaneously the worst hit boxes, more so on the clean side now but still.
@@ducky4605 it’s just a few of the snake attacks, the one where he screams and sends out all those snakes is kinda jank. Prolly shouldn’t have said hit boxes and instead just a few of the hit boxes are bad. His thrust hit box is also bad.
I like Shadow of the Erdtree for the most part but it has been utterly impossible not to notice how god damn broken so many of the boss hit boxes are. The bosses in the DLC teeter on the very limit of tolerability and enjoyment on many levels. I have so much fun exploring and learning the expanded lore, then I fight a major boss and my enjoyment plummets. I guess it wasnt just "B-Team" to blame when it comes to mechanical jank, huh? As many people have been saying, this DLC has definitely shown definitively that the Dark Souls formula is at its breaking point. They need to do something completely different next or a full back-to-basics creative reset. I'm tired of every fight leaning on 10 hit wombo-combos and arena wide AOE spams. It's not that they are hard, it's that they arent even rewarding to beat. There's no thrill just bitter resentment at the game for treating the player so spitefully with its cheap, careless difficulty spikes.
not sure why all grabs need to have bad hitboxes, or why all enemies, even malenia and this guy, need a grab. still great boss tho, the 2nd phase was the coolest thing ive seen in these games
Oh my gosh- that’s actually so helpful? Now I know how close I can be 🫣 I don’t suppose you’d be willing to do this for Gaius? That guy is grinding my gears 😤
Here is the missing Snake AoE attack: ruclips.net/video/-zWLhok9UFE/видео.htmlsi=H2b-NQKZN4Gbra0K
I see you have discovered messmer's TRUE orb.
Shut up
No wonder why I kept getting tagged by that grab, the hitbox is HUGE.
That’s literally the same type of hitbox for every other grab in every other souls game, this one is even smaller than the usual grab hitbox
@@ni9274 compared to the size of the hand it’s way bigger than it should be, it’s an iron golem sized blunder.
Funnily enough, compared to Cursed Greatwood or Astel, this hitbox is not that bad.
Seriously, those hitboxes are terrible
Easy attack
It’s the window of time the grab is active too, so long as you dodge in time you will be missed
Can you do this with commander gaius? I genuinely think he has the worst hitboxes of the entire dlc purely because of his charge attack
For real! I was thinking about this too. That hit box is wild.
@@SaxSlaveGael Omg Gael hiiii
Yeah dodging the charge feels wrong
I'd also like to see his hurtbox because there have been some times where I'm pretty sure my weapon phased through him
Timing a roll is too hard I guess
@@arcky4137 it's not about it being hard, it just feels kinda bad. Bloodborne's hot dog has a shitty hitbox on some of his bites. you can dodge them consistently but it still sucks
my favorite boss in any soulsborne, how they can make a boss like godskin duo and then this masterpiece is very strange
godskin is not a major boss, that's why. It's just a midstage boss that was likely given very little thought beyond making sure it was reasonably beatable, which it is, annoyance aside.
Same, he is my favorite boss/enemy/character from any fiction. His lore music fight and design is just peak. I love him so much i'm gonna get a tattoo of him. Originally I wanted malektih but I wanted to see what the dlc had to offer and I'm very impressed, especially by messmer, midra, and consort
@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd it shouldnt matter if hes a midstage boss, there should still be care put in to make them both work in a duo fight instead of just plopping two enemies in an arena
@@GreiratBut they did care into making them work as a duo boss, that's why their AI actually takes turns into approaching you and why that fight is even doable without summoning Bernahl or a spirit. It's why their HP is so low, for example. Why it's so easy to trivialize with a DPS check, etc.
They kinda sometimes just don't cook at all. Bed of Chaos, Lud and Zallen, Wolnir, Rom. At least this game cheesing the bad ones makes them feel less worse.
Other than the grab, I feel all the hitboxes are pretty good
the hitbox fits the spear
problem is the spear swings in 360 in any direction.
Most are fairly tight, but the tracking on some of his moves are kinda of bs imo. His delayed charged trust is the one I have some complaints. It’s got a very tight window for strafing it, cuz he can turn almost like 180 right before it hits, it just looks bad visually if you were strafing to his right but didn’t run fast enough and he just turns and snipe you lol.
@@yanli111 Are you talking about the one where the spear drags in the ground a bit? Because that attack is kind of bullshit as I swear it has a lingering hitbox.
@@AceAviations2 yup, that’s the one. It’s just super delayed to try can catch souls veteran, similar to morgot/margit’s raising weapon for like 5 sec, except messemer’s delayed attack have such “good” tracking that the turn it self looks super bad and punishes you for not strafing perfectly, whereas morgot’s delayed hits can strafed easily as a way to encourage you to do so.
@@yanli111 probably because it's something you are meant to dodge not strafe.
Recently beat Messmer. I've very little skill, but I'm glad you basically visualized the "That's gonna hit me" chant I had in my head basically the whole fight.
A great time to appreciate the art team and animators. FS isn’t know for their graphical fidelity but their games are such a wonder to behold. The story these characters tell with their move sets, mesmerizing.
messmerizing there i said it
art style > fidelity
no idea why companies always pushed fidelity. all it does is make it so the game runs like shit, and if people don't have the hardware they can't play
elden ring runs decently well on my 11 year old PC, but I can't play modern graphic intensive games
Kinda opposite of most of the comments i fought this guy and I was like oh I know thats gonna hit me oh well and then the attack would completely miss
Yo same! Especially after fighting COMMANDER SHITTY HITBOX
Yeah his hitboxes are really fair all things considered, grab isn’t that bad once you learn to dodge it either
These are good hitboxes I'm not sure what people are complaining about
The only bad hit box is the dragging fire spear attack(seems to linger a bit and the tracking is crazy). Other than that it’s pretty flawless.
im disappointed you didnt show the huge AOE move in phase 2 where he floats in the air before a massive aoe and like 7 snakes strike
I need to see this. I have no idea where to go during this move.
I'm pretty sure you can just run away from that and avoid most to all of the move. It's worked for me both times I beat him
@@__Man_ if you're right up against him when he starts it you have almost no time at all to clear the AoE. If you're in an animation for even a moment, you're fucked. and you still have several snakes to avoid after the fact
you *can* run away from it, but it's at least as oppressive if not way worse than waterfowl.
@yikes6758 I'm gonna have to disagree. Cuz even if you're right next to him, the snakes knock you down which allows you to avoid most of the attack. I never had any trouble with that move
@@global-sequence just roll every time a snake comes close and let s do the rest
As cool as the fire effects are, they can be really misleading...
especially on that spear spin wind up, you would expect the first turn to have a hitbox, but apparently they have none
As a dev you should always put the hitboxes at the players favor, this is why "coyote time" (stepping on air slightly off the edge) is an intended feature in games like platformers, and From does similar things throughout most of the game except when doing fire and other such effects, they even seem to over-extend the collision.
I always figured it didn’t. I’m not sure why but I somehow always knew.
Messmer: bro get back here wtf
Tarnished: 1:29
Great vid, I knew that grab was a little too big haha. Visualizing his attacks in slow motion like this make me think Messmer is actually blind (lore-wise), his repeated thrusting attack is more “in your general direction” than on your precise position, for single thrusts the snakes can help him triangulate but for that one he just guesses! And most of his attacks are big spins and AoEs for that reason too. In phase 2, the base serpent has almost no idea where you are, it’s just hoping its giant body and mouth hit you. Fascinating! (Not to mention the animations and sound design on this boss are amazing
In one of Hawkshaw recent videos, someone speculated that Messmer is indeed blind, because his eye is replaced with Marika's scarseal, and in the intro cutscene, we see that he sees you using the snake, not from the perspective of his actual eye.
His vertical spin hitbox into the spear uppercut and slam confused me since I got hit by it inconsistently when trying to dodge it. Interesting to see how it really works here, good video
can dodge into him the moment he jumps then dodge backwards immediately (into him again)
Locking off can help
one of my favorite fights in all of elden ring, maybe even the best. enjoyed it a lot, challenged my build just enough to tweak my summon and buffs but not enough to have to respec.
He needs to do this with that dang hippo 🦛 boss
Having just beaten this guy, i'm glad I wasnt just crazy when getting hit by his grab when i thought i shouldnt have. 😂
Great vid as always!
He got me with his grab so many times, even if it’s decently telegraphed I still panic roll too early a lot of the time and it does such insane damage even at 60V
3:29 i fucking KNEW that hitbox lingered for way too long
This channel about to blow up after you release the Consort Radahn hitboxes
I don't think those hitboxes were particularly broken in anyway. Also kinda rude to namedrop the final boss like that.
@@Sharkamfssthere are a lot of bs hitboxes but the main problem is the damage and the like, 5 completely unpunishable moves he gets in phase 2, plus you can’t see anything half the time
@TheGrillMaster1 Damage is a bit high but the recent scadutree buff should address that. Also I can only think of two moves you can't punish, his orbital strike and his T-pose explosion. What other attacks can't you punish?
@@Sharkamfss not sure what part of my message spoils that Consort Radahn is the final boss. If anything, your reply spoiled that
@@AXEJAYB I moreso didn't want you to spoil that Radahn comes back.
We need that boar riding maniac's😢 hitboxes
so i wasn't crazy when he grabbed me at half the map away
1:20 I was wondering why this attack always seemed to hit even if you were between the spears or over them.
This explains it.
I genuinely really like Messmer he is my favorite fight but his second phase snakes always make me go “what the fuck is happening”
Grab always dodge back and everything else dodge into him, try to side dodge from the delay thrust to give yourself more hits in. Hope it helps👍
Easily my favorite fight or the dlc along with Bayle, was a blast to learn the whole way through
Useful! Thank you! :)
Very interesting to see. Please, do Golden Hippo next 🙏 The hitboxes on that thing are a joke.
Really wanted to see the double delayed, swipe then slide up attack (the same as the finish of a fire sword combo, but without the fire) as I felt the hitbox on that laggered for a few too many frames
Commander gaius next please, his boar hitbox is bigger than any other mounted unit I swear
something i'm curious about is the messmer & snake hurtbox. in the 2nd phase, when you get to punish the snake's attack combo it felt like i was doing double damage. like the messmer & snake hurtboxes were active at the same time.... but maybe the snake is just weaker?
Awsome
do the hippo next. feel like the startup frames are pure cancer
This is unintentional comedy 😂
Do hitboxes for all ER bosses please
what do you think of these hitbox?
I think his hitboxes are overall great.
1:07 it’s only really the first and final hit that are close to the ground so I wonder if you could do a crouch dodge and avoid almost all the hits.
Man, that's a lot of real funny shapes. Shame if someone... held up a giant stone slab through all of it.
Aww, I was hoping to see that delayed thrust after he scrapes the spear on the ground. I was curious to see if that hitbox is as bad as it felt like.
He’s got that Smash Melee Marth Grab
Messmerizing.........(you dont deserve an apology)
if you modded in dante moveset with rebellion and played bury the light, peaple on the internet might mistake this for dmc game
At least there's no weird bullshit hitboxes on his elbows...
1:09 so that’s why dodging to the right always worked…. the hit box starts left before going right, by the time he strikes right, I’m already too far from the hitbox to be hurt
What program are you using for this?
PLEASE do these for the final boss' ghost attacks. I'm like 99% it's bugged on ps4 and you cannot evade by running away
Omg I am so stupid I knew that something was off now I know he is left handed.
Release more videos like this and I will sub to your channel
Every time fromsoft makes a weapon wielding/small/normal boss they should look at this boss for pointers
I wonder why FromSoft games are the only games (other than Fighting games) that these kind of videos.
I mean, I was looking for hitbox data on DMC games but couldn't find a single video.
Maybe because of how notoriously disjointed some of the hitboxes are in this types of games. So it encourages people to check them and be like "Why tf did I get by that one grab"
@@aceofshakes531 that's not necessarily the only reason, I think.
It's not like FromSoft has the worst hitboxes in the gaming industry. For example, there's so many "cherry-picked" videos that also showcase how accurate their hitbox is (and other fans drooling over them).
I believe it's about how much FromSoft demands from the player (like how much the attack tracks the player or how little space the attack has as safe space) along with how big of a punishment you face for getting hit (losing tons of health).
Compare them to other games (specially in normal difficulty), games expect you to handle multiple enemies at once so dodging away often works and even if it doesn't, the damage is not too much.
They have their own difficulties, often with numbers or enemy variety or specific ways to handle specific enemies, but they don't have to be nearly as accurate and/or dedicated as FromSoft games.
Like you can do some amazing combos in DMC 5 if you can make split second dodge and combos, but doing average won't hurt you that bad.
As for fighting games, it's mainly because of esports lvl pvp fights.
Still weird that FromSoft is more or less the only company whose games get analyzed this thoroughly. When was the last time you saw so many dataminers showing datamined info on YT regularly for Resident Evil (or some other franchise)?
@@sharif47 That's true, Soulsborne are more demanding by default.
mainly cause the dude who runs this channel is a high copium ds2 fan that wants to make it seem like everything in every game has bad hitboxes
@@gigagogagagio tbf, that grab hitbox is really a$$.
Is making the hitbox for grab attacks perfect hard?
I love this fight but If Imget grabbed by him after his fingers barely scrape me I’m going to make the Abyssal Forest look serene.
will you make video for all the dlc bosses because i really want to see bayle's grab attack hit box
One of his finisher thrusts feels like it has a ridiculous amount of tracking. Could you look into it?
The tracking is pretty brutal on a few attacks. Even while recording with speed hacking he always got me with some of them
@@Domo3000 Incredible game design. I know that Rellana also tries to snap onto you on some attacks.
@@theaveragenormie7151Rellana and Messmer are so good
@@theaveragenormie7151 it's just means that you just need to dodge it. Also, I'm calling cap on Rellana, she just attacks quickly that is all.
this attack here be bizarre 1:09 ... the way i 'dodged' it was just by walking into him like here 2:43 . cus i guess the hitbox is only active near the spear's end? but, it's just funny that it can be done.
tbh, you could argue that more attacks should have some type of 'walk dodge' rather than only rolling. just to mix it up.
Ah yes, DS2, it was you all alone.
My guiding shitbox
this very channel shows ds2 has the best hitboxes lmfao
i don't even think than you are understanding what you are seing 🤣
What software you use to visualize the hitboxes?? Is it a mod? Cheat engine? Id really like to know thx
It's in the TGA cheat engine table. It's called Debug Sphere
@@Domo3000 Found it, thank you :)
:0 what the actual fuck
I was very interested to see the hitbox of his aoe snake move, where a bunch of them come out, since I think that is one of the worst hitboxes of the dlc, if not any souls game. You can get hit by a snake that fully whiffs you and will get immediately one shot if you’re in the middle of it.
Unfortunately it seems it wasn’t shown? :(
Do you mean this one: ruclips.net/video/-zWLhok9UFE/видео.htmlsi=ORGsbuFVWHFKwcgl
@@Domo3000 Yes thank you 🙏
I now see the snakes after the first part of the attack actually have good hitboxes, but the attack itself is just one massive bubble around him, which is probably what I was referring to 💀
i wish they gave him 2 health bars like Malenia
the fight is so short :(
God no.
The fight is perfect as is. (Aside from a few jank hitboxes which weren't shown in the video)
It wasn't short at all pre-nerf (and no bleed obviously), now it's a pushover like everything before radahn. What a unnecessary nerf to the entire DLC when you can just summon mimic tear or use fingerprint shield and stop worrying about the game's difficulty.
What nerf?@@nopnop9077
@@nopnop9077 Nothing was nerfed?
@@theobell2002 Increasing power overall before your 16th scadutree blessing (something that barely anyone reached) by 20% on top of also increasing resistances by 20% is a huge nerf to the entire dlc pre-radahn.
Why would you not roll on the grab tho?
It's for visualization. A grab attack that looks pretty strafeable actually has an insane hitbox.
@@devondorr8212 In my experience it never really worked well to not roll a grab, not in any other FromSoftware game and not in Elden Ring so I just assumed I should always roll.
Why would you roll when it looks like ur already out of the way?
I'm not mature enough to see 0:19 and not laugh, im sorry
After seeing this I can see why some people say he is so easy. 90% of my dodges are dodging non existent hitboxes of things that LOOK like they should have hitboxes but in reality they do not. The good players figured that out and that's why people like me are staring at them wondering how the fuck those dodges work. It turns out it's just shitty vfx design and movements that look like attacks but aren't.
I've had some frustrating and satisfying experiences with his hitboxes on RL1. They're ok
so basically a mugen holy-god-hado-dark-orochi creator made this, got it.
how do you show hitboxes? mod?
In the TGA cheat engine table it's under Debug stuff - Game - Damage Management. Debug Sphere or something like that
@@Domo3000 tyvm
I think this is more of a problem with fromsoft slowly transitioning into devil may cry wannabe for a wider audience by making longer and longer and longer and longer and more flashy and anime attacks
this stuff has existed all the way back in demon's souls with old king allant and penetrator, artorias & manus in ds1, alonne & fume knight is ds2, basically every boss in bloodborne, ds3, sekiro, this game....
@@Celatra You cannot compare Demon´s Souls to this, I´m sorry but you just cannot
the longest combo in Demon´s Souls had three hits, maybe four and that was mostly due to unfortunate RNG
the difficulty in Demons Souls often came in the form of large AoE attacks like King Allants that covered half the room or the Flamelurkers repeated ground fire pounce
some of this carried over to Dark Souls I where Ornstein/Smough, and most notably the notorious Stray Demon/Firesage made use of these AoE attacks that were difficult to roll out of if you did not get enough distance
Artorias also did mostly 3-4 hits in a chain before pausing or retreating and Manus five hit wombo-combo was essentially more of a grab attack that served as the predecessor for the Soul of Cinders flame sword combo, but gave you a generous warning and usually enough time to retreat
The Fume Knight and Sir Alonne also did mostly 3-4 attacks until they paused again for a bit, the only increase in difficulty were some variations in their recovery timings and the Blue Smelter Demon introducing deliberately delayed attacks for the first time, in fact 3 hit combos were very popular in DS 2 as multible enemies and bosses use them or variations of them
Bloodborne had a few enemies with longer combos like Orphan of Kos but in turn gave you a more nimble character and a stun mechanic to combat them
then came Dark Souls III and the age of the Wombo-Combo truly began: Pontiff Sulyvahn, Slave Knight Gael, Soul of Cinder, Friede, etc.
even though I´d argue those were still relatively tame compared so some of Sekiros and Elden Rings Combos
It’s moreso that FS is hitting the difficulty and design ceiling of the dark souls “roll, punish” combat loop. At some point, the way it works is not complex or refined enough for them to meaningfully increase the difficulty, which is imo why they were experimenting with the deflect tear in the dlc. Sekiro combat allows for much longer and more complex combos and bossfights in general as it turns defense into an offensive measure, with each deflect pushing the fight closer to completion. I think the final boss of the DLC is sort of a perfect example of why the souls combat loop is at its breaking point, because it is genuinely the least fun I have ever had fighting an FS boss, even more so than bed of chaos.
@@zergray6851exactly. I remember fight Manus in Dark Souls DLC and how crazy the one wombs combo he has.
If only I knew that would be the norm.
Elden Ring has cleaner hitboxes than something like Bloodborne or DS3, where a dash attack or a projectile could hit a meter away from you. The problem is that this DLC has some huge hitboxes. Fromsoft will probably fix them like they did with the original Radahn.
Lol, ppl complaining about hitboxes for the serpent in phase 2 but they actually just cant dodge XD... the GRAB however is a little devious
Player: "i have literal invincibility when i roll"
Boss: "i can grab you and cant block"
Player: "these hitboxes suck i hate you Miyazaki im refunding on steam"
No wonder I hate this boss so much
He’s great wym
@@BlacklistedSoupfav dlc boss
I want to say: "Yeah, that seems like the usual Fromsoft."
But that's a bit disappointing to think isn't it?
Nothing here seems too outrageous, but you'd think by now From is able to squish cones when on blades like this spear, or not make grab hitboxes the size of their upper bodies.
The game is as forgiving as it is
if the grab hitbox was made any smaller, the grab would never hit you
@@Celatra Then the grab itself is wrong, because plenty of other grabs with smaller hitboxes so far in the Souls series hit just fine.
@@Bossu It's just to combat strafing in my opinion. Faster grabs can work fine because the only way is to dodge.
Grabs tend to be VERY generously telegraphed, as is the case with messmer's grab. I don't think the actual hitbox is the issue, it's just that by the nature of the grab, they either have to make the hitbox so small(the size of his hand) that it becomes too weak of a move, or make it a threatening size at the cost of having to TP you sometimes.
I knew it. That hand grab is rigged. It's worse that none of these combos are actually balanced, theyre just random.
They're pretty easy idk
they aren't random and the grab is easy to roll ur jus terrible
So they are always bigger than they realistically should be. No wonder people are struggling, the bosses cheat.
Only bad hitbox here is the grab.
Other than that, you should just see the attack coming and press dodge. The player will never think “Aha that swing will miss by 10cm so I can just stand here and spam r1!” unless they have super vision.
It stops you from just walking in circles as well.
The snake hit boxes are way too big.
Idk how fromsoft makes the cleanest and simultaneously the worst hit boxes, more so on the clean side now but still.
The hitbox is the size of the snake how is that too big???
@@ducky4605 it’s just a few of the snake attacks, the one where he screams and sends out all those snakes is kinda jank.
Prolly shouldn’t have said hit boxes and instead just a few of the hit boxes are bad.
His thrust hit box is also bad.
@@ducky4605there s other attacks the vid didn t show with the snakes
I didn't get good recording of all snake attacks so I did not include all, but from what I've saw they are all pretty much the same
@@Domo3000 there’s one in where he slams is head down, that hit box is atrocious I even screen recorded it myself.
Lmao they really want to remove the concept of spacing and strafing and turn these games in spams
Glad always getting grabbed wasnt just my fault, that hitbox is stupid
Fromsoft make a good grab hitbox challenge (Difficulty level: IMPOSSIBLE)
Already did it with the pursuer but skill issue casuals whine about it
I like Shadow of the Erdtree for the most part but it has been utterly impossible not to notice how god damn broken so many of the boss hit boxes are. The bosses in the DLC teeter on the very limit of tolerability and enjoyment on many levels. I have so much fun exploring and learning the expanded lore, then I fight a major boss and my enjoyment plummets. I guess it wasnt just "B-Team" to blame when it comes to mechanical jank, huh? As many people have been saying, this DLC has definitely shown definitively that the Dark Souls formula is at its breaking point. They need to do something completely different next or a full back-to-basics creative reset. I'm tired of every fight leaning on 10 hit wombo-combos and arena wide AOE spams. It's not that they are hard, it's that they arent even rewarding to beat. There's no thrill just bitter resentment at the game for treating the player so spitefully with its cheap, careless difficulty spikes.
not sure why all grabs need to have bad hitboxes, or why all enemies, even malenia and this guy, need a grab. still great boss tho, the 2nd phase was the coolest thing ive seen in these games
Just remember the player has literal invincibility frames.
They tried to address this issue with ADP with DS2 and it sucked ass 😂
The snakes are terrible bro, ruins the second phase, first phase was great, messmer s assault is amazing
It makes it better and more epic, while also giving You a Big punish for any weapon or AoW
Yeah the snakes function surprisingly well, I’ve never had an issue with them.
Wtf is this grab? Scam as fk
Most of these hitboxes are too big
At first seconds we see how heitboxes fukked in this game, total garbage
Oh my gosh- that’s actually so helpful? Now I know how close I can be 🫣 I don’t suppose you’d be willing to do this for Gaius? That guy is grinding my gears 😤