What I like about your channel.is that you show the process of doing things. Other channels have had videos on leveling a large lathe, but they say, "I'm going to level the lathe by doing this..." Then the next scene is: "Well, I got her level after a couple of hours work." But they never show the tedious part of actually doing the work. Until you see that part of it, you really don't understand the time and patience needed to do that kind of work. Thank you. It may mean a longer and maybe a bit boring video, but I, for one, now know a bit better what work it takes to level a large piece of machinery. We're about the same age, but the way you explain things, it's like being in a shop with a loving grandpa who's trying to teach a grandchild about machining. You are one of the best.
G'day Max. The JFMT might have a few years on it, & being levelled to the tolerances you now have, coupled with the refurbishing that you have done, makes it a really top lathe. Let's be honest, levelling is a slow process & can take from "0" to many, many hours of Loving Frustration. Very well done 👏 ✔️ 👍🏻 👌 🙌 😀
Really excellent demonstration! You addressed two questions I've had. How much is a "small adjustment"? Being able to see how much you tweak the wrench to make an adjustment was helpful. How much tension do you put on the unladen feet when you tighten them. From what I understood here, the answer is until they just touch, and then stop. Calibrating the level is a delicate process. It wasn't until I tried it that I really appreciated how little of an adjustment it takes to move the bubble.
Proper 3 dimensional thinking Max, machine levelling is nice and relaxing until it isn't, such as a so-called fully stress relieved machine base has developed internal stresses. I used to install rotary friction welding machines for one of my sins from about 2 metres to 13 metres long, 6 to 45 tonnes, larger ones needed a week or so to settle after transport and lifting, all fixed by grout anchor pockets. Always ensure final leveling was done with sliding weld heads in welding position. Always good fun when we asked customer for precision levels, always had to calibrate them, after firstly given bricklayers levels. Later with camera phones, i could show them what i needed. I write installation and levelling guides now( extract from main manual). Excellent demonstration again, if i remembered on initial levelling, I would count hex flats based on thread pitch of jacking screw, essential on long automotive type lines i worked on previously looking through optical level issuing instructions to guy on the spanners
They definitely settle over time. A proper levelling job on my lathe takes a minimum of two weeks until it stops moving. At the beginning I would be making adjustments every few minutes, near the end it would be every twelve hours and the adjustments would be very slight. You get very good at turning bolts very very tiny amounts. My jacking screws are just like yours with a jam nut on top. I used to leave the jam nuts loose until the very end but I found it always threw the alignment off when I nipped them up, even if the screw didn't turn. Now I make the last few adjustments with the jam nuts tight. The amount of movement is so small you can do it that way and the jam nuts don't loosen. One thing I noticed with these master precision levels is that you can tell if the temperature has changed by the size of the bubble. If it warms up the bubble gets shorter, if it cools down it gets longer. Ken
Cheers Ken . I will take notice of the bubble length . Not sure if it will change much as we do not have the massive temp swings from summer to winter like you get there . Still , something to note . 👍
Well done Max as you say, very laborious I probably spent a couple of days trying to get my lathe the best I could.l haven’t rechecked it in quite a while better go do it. Keep the great videos coming we love ‘em
Those precision levels with try your patience and put that grey (or white)right into your hair! Fiddly doesn't really describe what working with those things are like. It takes it to the next level! Well as always, I learned I great deal on this video. Thanks for the learning, and the entertainment. I was playing some Benny Hill music in my head when you played the video in fast speed while you were making adjustments! Probably would have been a good idea to add music like that to that segment, would have laughed my ass off! I made a comment about turcite on your last vid, and boy, had one guy just trying to rap my knuckles for saying I thought that was not a good lasting fix. Glad you made a comment saying you would like to try using it. I would like to see an apples to apples comparison of the stuff, but from what I understand there are many different types with some specific content and specific properties. I was of the mind that the "miricle plastics" had very different thermal properties than metal, and where there are areas with high temp differences from day and night and season to season that it could delaminate because of the expanding and contraction differences between the two materials. Read one guys comment where Boeing aircraft company used the stuff on a plane and it failed and killed a bunch of people, yikes! But there are applications where it works great and has the engineered properties like self lubricating and such, so it would be interesting to research what that stuff can do. I wanted to apologize for some of my comments on the last video, I allowed myself to be triggered and didn't respond that great. Live and learn. Just a little disappointed that I didn't set a very good example. But I learned and from now on I intend to set the right example. I'm sure you don't want the comment area to turn into an argument space, I know I don't. Cheers mate, thanks for the video and look forward to the next one!
Well g'day Max, 5.00am here in merry old England, hot coffee and a fresh Swan Valley video, whilst I wait for the sunrise, happy days mate, always a joy watching you work, thanks for sharing
G’Day Max, nice to see your Starrett 98 - I toured the factory last week, and watched with interest at the work station where those levels are assembled. 👍
Hopefully not much . 6 inches of concrete with lots of reo on top of a heavily compacted cracker dust ( granite ) base 2 feet thick on top of heavily compacted sand . Their are no saw cuts for expansion joints either & no cracks . I did not want expansion joints under where a machine might sit . Cheers 👍
Hi Max, lots of patience needed. I scored a Watts precision 12" block level made in London. 0.00005"/10", same resolution as your Polish level, think it was made late thirties in pristine condition in Bakelite box. Spent a good hour calibrating it, only have to breathe on it to make the bubble move. Remember back in the sixties using a Watts Theodolite measuring the height of our Cat Cracker as an exercise.
Hi Max, Bakelite was popular until the forties, used extensively during the twenties and thirties, your M&W micrometer is probably around the same age as my level. The smell of Bakelite is a dead giveaway, must be the formeldahide and phenol.
I think you've added an additional zero, lovely instrument manufacturers, ER Watts, became Hilger & Watts, then Rank. I've got one from each, latest one is an 8" box type 8n a horrible plywood affair.
I stand corrected, one additional zero, 1/2 a thou in 10 inches. My Bakelite box has 24 screws holding it together not counting the screws holding the clips for the purpose made adjustment tool.
Max what I did when leveling my lathe was to use my camera phone to take a picture of the bubble. Helps eliminate the hysterias. My eyes are so old and tired I must wear Tri Focal lenses so the camera trick is a must for me. . I was looking for 2 mounting holes on the back side of the apron and I could not see them until I snapped a picture then it was easy to see where they were.
Can Confirm. Some years ago I spent $40 for a borescope / endoscope that connects to my phone as a display. So, so, useful for looking at stuff that's not even in line of sight from where I have to wrench on something. It's in the running for best $40 I ever spent.
Also have a accurate bubble level. But the concete & a tree that needs removing have set my choice to a progressive combination set level. Have lathe on a welded wooden bench so used aluminium 5mm shims at footing resin bolted into cement. Almost there for accurate work. Hope to finally use my accurate level on the final levelling. My table will twist & bow. But as accuracy goes the temperature & a reasonable closeness using 1 datum line is a great start. Like the use of measuring a tightened nut. Some people can go in the wrong direction & this is what causes the whole process to fall apart. I use a progressive method using my white board to displace need for shims. Probably the most important process on a lathe for accuracy.
Very informative video Max, Shame you didn't have a second camera focused on the level so we could see how your adjustments were affecting it. Not every job is exciting but they all offer the chance to learn something.
Hi Grant! What is the thickness of your concrete slab? If it is too thin, there is always a chance of settling over time, even when the machine is set level in all directions. That is hard work for one person... Ron...
Minimum of 6 inch on top of 2 feet of compacted granite chips . The granite ( cracker dust ) is a by product of road base and when mixed properly with water & compacted it sets like concrete . 👍
Do you keep your shop fair temp wise or, is that a struggle? Not every one has luxurious environmental conditions. What things do you change to mitigate the temp swings on your structure in your local environment? Hope this question is not offensive. I'm not a big proponent of isolate and insulate. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how you do this mitigation. But, I do really like the machine work and tech. solutions. from the opposite of the earth. Thank you!
We would only have a 40 deg C temp swing here , like from 5 deg C in winter & 40 to 45 deg C in summer . In summer , the side verandahs keep the sun off the main walls . Also having 4 roller doors allows cross ventilation . The glass wool insulation makes a huge difference in summer & winter . Also no roof condensation because of the insulation . 👍
That method should not be done , according to the Dean Smith & Grace methods . The casting has to be in it's relaxed position as it left the factory when inspected . When i do my small lathe , it will be a different story as it does not have the weight to self straighten . 👍
When using these levels, they don’t have to be exact in calibration. As long as you note where the bubble is and duplicate that with your bed adjustments, you’re fine. I do tend to get anal with my Starrett Master as well. But we really don’t have to. Is the cross slide parallel to the front and rear of the ways?
You are the full bottle Max, there are no half-assed jobs done at Swan Valley Machine Shop! Congrats well done, love your attention to perfection.
Thanks 👍
What I like about your channel.is that you show the process of doing things. Other channels have had videos on leveling a large lathe, but they say, "I'm going to level the lathe by doing this..."
Then the next scene is: "Well, I got her level after a couple of hours work."
But they never show the tedious part of actually doing the work. Until you see that part of it, you really don't understand the time and patience needed to do that kind of work. Thank you. It may mean a longer and maybe a bit boring video, but I, for one, now know a bit better what work it takes to level a large piece of machinery.
We're about the same age, but the way you explain things, it's like being in a shop with a loving grandpa who's trying to teach a grandchild about machining. You are one of the best.
Yeah, what he said!
Thanks 👍👍👍
That is why I have been watching this man for over 4 years.
G'day Max. The JFMT might have a few years on it, & being levelled to the tolerances you now have, coupled with the refurbishing that you have done, makes it a really top lathe.
Let's be honest, levelling is a slow process & can take from "0" to many, many hours of Loving Frustration.
Very well done 👏 ✔️ 👍🏻 👌 🙌 😀
Cheers Ted . 👍
Those precision levels are designed to make insane striving for perfection!
They can be a tad finicky ! Cheers 👍
It sure is a laborious job, but really pays off. Your patience and tenacity are admirable! 👍👍👍
Thanks 👍
Really excellent demonstration! You addressed two questions I've had. How much is a "small adjustment"? Being able to see how much you tweak the wrench to make an adjustment was helpful. How much tension do you put on the unladen feet when you tighten them. From what I understood here, the answer is until they just touch, and then stop.
Calibrating the level is a delicate process. It wasn't until I tried it that I really appreciated how little of an adjustment it takes to move the bubble.
No worries 👍
Proper 3 dimensional thinking Max, machine levelling is nice and relaxing until it isn't, such as a so-called fully stress relieved machine base has developed internal stresses.
I used to install rotary friction welding machines for one of my sins from about 2 metres to 13 metres long, 6 to 45 tonnes, larger ones needed a week or so to settle after transport and lifting, all fixed by grout anchor pockets.
Always ensure final leveling was done with sliding weld heads in welding position.
Always good fun when we asked customer for precision levels, always had to calibrate them, after firstly given bricklayers levels. Later with camera phones, i could show them what i needed.
I write installation and levelling guides now( extract from main manual).
Excellent demonstration again, if i remembered on initial levelling, I would count hex flats based on thread pitch of jacking screw, essential on long automotive type lines i worked on previously looking through optical level issuing instructions to guy on the spanners
No worries . Lol , i used a carpenters level before the little Starrett for the preliminary ! Cheers .👍
Another cracking video, beautiful gift as well
Thanks 👍
They definitely settle over time. A proper levelling job on my lathe takes a minimum of two weeks until it stops moving. At the beginning I would be making adjustments every few minutes, near the end it would be every twelve hours and the adjustments would be very slight. You get very good at turning bolts very very tiny amounts. My jacking screws are just like yours with a jam nut on top. I used to leave the jam nuts loose until the very end but I found it always threw the alignment off when I nipped them up, even if the screw didn't turn. Now I make the last few adjustments with the jam nuts tight. The amount of movement is so small you can do it that way and the jam nuts don't loosen. One thing I noticed with these master precision levels is that you can tell if the temperature has changed by the size of the bubble. If it warms up the bubble gets shorter, if it cools down it gets longer. Ken
Cheers Ken . I will take notice of the bubble length . Not sure if it will change much as we do not have the massive temp swings from summer to winter like you get there . Still , something to note . 👍
Well done Max as you say, very laborious I probably spent a couple of days trying to get my lathe the best I could.l haven’t rechecked it in quite a while better go do it. Keep the great videos coming we love ‘em
Thanks 👍
Another great video. This will help me as i have to recheck my level on my lathe.
No worries 👍
Those precision levels with try your patience and put that grey (or white)right into your hair! Fiddly doesn't really describe what working with those things are like. It takes it to the next level! Well as always, I learned I great deal on this video. Thanks for the learning, and the entertainment. I was playing some Benny Hill music in my head when you played the video in fast speed while you were making adjustments! Probably would have been a good idea to add music like that to that segment, would have laughed my ass off! I made a comment about turcite on your last vid, and boy, had one guy just trying to rap my knuckles for saying I thought that was not a good lasting fix. Glad you made a comment saying you would like to try using it. I would like to see an apples to apples comparison of the stuff, but from what I understand there are many different types with some specific content and specific properties. I was of the mind that the "miricle plastics" had very different thermal properties than metal, and where there are areas with high temp differences from day and night and season to season that it could delaminate because of the expanding and contraction differences between the two materials. Read one guys comment where Boeing aircraft company used the stuff on a plane and it failed and killed a bunch of people, yikes! But there are applications where it works great and has the engineered properties like self lubricating and such, so it would be interesting to research what that stuff can do. I wanted to apologize for some of my comments on the last video, I allowed myself to be triggered and didn't respond that great. Live and learn. Just a little disappointed that I didn't set a very good example. But I learned and from now on I intend to set the right example. I'm sure you don't want the comment area to turn into an argument space, I know I don't. Cheers mate, thanks for the video and look forward to the next one!
All good . Cheers 👍
Tedious job at hand. I like your outcome. Thanks.
No worries 👍
Well g'day Max, 5.00am here in merry old England, hot coffee and a fresh Swan Valley video, whilst I wait for the sunrise, happy days mate, always a joy watching you work, thanks for sharing
Cheers Ralfy . Don't work too hard ! 👍
good video friend Max
Thanks 👍
You'll be having a game of snooker on your lathe when you've finished Max, or making pancakes.....Interesting. Cheers Tony
Thanks Tony . 👍
Thanks Max!
east Tennessee
Cheers 👍
G’Day Max, nice to see your Starrett 98 - I toured the factory last week, and watched with interest at the work station where those levels are assembled. 👍
I watched Adam Booths tour . Looks like an impressive set up . Cheers 👍
I thought a precision level had to be set every time it was used. That is a beautiful level!
It should be checked every time , as with all levels . 👍
Nice work. Thanks for sharing
No worries 👍
Such a good video. One shouldn't forget that the ground and concrete will also be moving over time.
Hopefully not much . 6 inches of concrete with lots of reo on top of a heavily compacted cracker dust ( granite ) base 2 feet thick on top of heavily compacted sand . Their are no saw cuts for expansion joints either & no cracks . I did not want expansion joints under where a machine might sit . Cheers 👍
Gday Max from Lincolnshire UK 🇬🇧
Gday Max from Cornwall UK 🇬🇧
Gday Max from S Wales UK 🏴
G'day from W.A . 👍
Muy bueno como anivelas el torno aquí hay un nivel pero no es igual a ese me gustó el vídeo max 🙏👍👏👏
Thanks 👍
Sounds like the weather outside is nasty over there, Not to bad across the ditch in kiwi land.
Raining cats & dogs ! Had enough of that when i lived in Wellington ! Cheers 👍
Hi Max, lots of patience needed.
I scored a Watts precision 12" block level made in London.
0.00005"/10", same resolution as your Polish level, think it was made late thirties in pristine condition in Bakelite box.
Spent a good hour calibrating it, only have to breathe on it to make the bubble move.
Remember back in the sixties using a Watts Theodolite measuring the height of our Cat Cracker as an exercise.
No worries . My Moore & Wright 0 to 1'' mic is in a bakelite case like for a pair of reading glasses ! 👍
Hi Max, Bakelite was popular until the forties, used extensively during the twenties and thirties, your M&W micrometer is probably around the same age as my level.
The smell of Bakelite is a dead giveaway, must be the formeldahide and phenol.
I think you've added an additional zero, lovely instrument manufacturers, ER Watts, became Hilger & Watts, then Rank. I've got one from each, latest one is an 8" box type 8n a horrible plywood affair.
I stand corrected, one additional zero, 1/2 a thou in 10 inches.
My Bakelite box has 24 screws holding it together not counting the screws holding the clips for the purpose made adjustment tool.
Max what I did when leveling my lathe was to use my camera phone to take a picture of the bubble. Helps eliminate the hysterias. My eyes are so old and tired I must wear Tri Focal lenses so the camera trick is a must for me. . I was looking for 2 mounting holes on the back side of the apron and I could not see them until I snapped a picture then it was easy to see where they were.
Can Confirm. Some years ago I spent $40 for a borescope / endoscope that connects to my phone as a display. So, so, useful for looking at stuff that's not even in line of sight from where I have to wrench on something. It's in the running for best $40 I ever spent.
I have had the odd occasion to take a photo & enlarge it ! 👍
Also have a accurate bubble level. But the concete & a tree that needs removing have set my choice to a progressive combination set level.
Have lathe on a welded wooden bench so used aluminium 5mm shims at footing resin bolted into cement.
Almost there for accurate work.
Hope to finally use my accurate level on the final levelling.
My table will twist & bow.
But as accuracy goes the temperature & a reasonable closeness using 1 datum line is a great start.
Like the use of measuring a tightened nut.
Some people can go in the wrong direction & this is what causes the whole process to fall apart.
I use a progressive method using my white board to displace need for shims.
Probably the most important process on a lathe for accuracy.
... welded wooden bench? What?
@@somebodyelse6673 Didn't want to drill through a steel base for coolant drain.
Cheers 👍
Lol , my southbend sits on a welded wooden bench ( welded steel frame & legs with 2 inch thick timber boards for the top ! )
@@swanvalleymachineshop - Thanks for taking the time to clear my confusion. I knew there was something I wasn't getting!
Hi again from the oldest town in Texas, USA, Nacogdoches.
Hi ! 👍
why my precision level spends almost all its life in the tool box ! nice job, cheers !
That's where they spend 99% of their miserable lives ! 👍
Thanks, Max.
Big fan of level myself.
Cheers 👍
Lots of fun watching a bubble...., for a half hour ! Joking aside, good job !
Lol , i had to watch it for a couple of hours between editing & doing the job !!! 👍
It is so nice when you are on the level
Too true ! 👍
Very informative video Max, Shame you didn't have a second camera focused on the level so we could see how your adjustments were affecting it. Not every job is exciting but they all offer the chance to learn something.
That would have been a good idea . Maybe when i do the DSG as that has to be done with shims . Cheers 👍
Good job Max!
Thanks 👍
Thank you Max!
No worries 👍
Hi Grant! What is the thickness of your concrete slab? If it is too thin, there is always a chance of settling over time, even when the machine is set level in all directions. That is hard work for one person... Ron...
Minimum of 6 inch on top of 2 feet of compacted granite chips . The granite ( cracker dust ) is a by product of road base and when mixed properly with water & compacted it sets like concrete . 👍
Hi Max, yes another instillment.
Thanks 👍
Hey Max, are you cold (you're wearing a jacket ),wish we could do the same here in Texas. Today 107,it is mucho Caliente 😁
Yes , it's freezing here , roll on summer ! 👍
Hi Max. you need the patience of Jobe leveling a lathe, as you would not think that steel does not bend but it does. Cheers
Cheers Randy . 👍
Do you keep your shop fair temp wise or, is that a struggle? Not every one has luxurious environmental conditions. What things do you change to mitigate the temp swings on your structure in your local environment? Hope this question is not offensive.
I'm not a big proponent of isolate and insulate. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how you do this mitigation. But, I do really like the machine work and tech. solutions. from the opposite of the earth. Thank you!
We would only have a 40 deg C temp swing here , like from 5 deg C in winter & 40 to 45 deg C in summer . In summer , the side verandahs keep the sun off the main walls . Also having 4 roller doors allows cross ventilation . The glass wool insulation makes a huge difference in summer & winter . Also no roof condensation because of the insulation . 👍
Thx for the vid.
No worries 👍
I kept yelling “ Whoa-Whoa “ but you didn’t hear me. Sorry man.
🍻
Lol , yell louder . 👍
Hey Max does it make sense in this situation to have the lathe fixed to the floor, it in my mind would allow you to mechanically straighten the bed.
That method should not be done , according to the Dean Smith & Grace methods . The casting has to be in it's relaxed position as it left the factory when inspected . When i do my small lathe , it will be a different story as it does not have the weight to self straighten . 👍
Tongue needs to hang out the Left side of the mouth for faster tweaking 😁
Lol , 👍👍👍
Errrr!! Not fun job chasing the bubble by yourself…will be interesting if the lathe cuts true or if the bed needs a twist…another chase some day❤
Time will tell ! Cheers 👍
Leveling anything with more than 3 points of contact is a total pain.
It can be ! Cheers Rob . 👍
👍
Cheers 👍
there must be a easyer way to level a big lathe ?
cheers
ben
Their is . Get someone else to do it ! Cheers 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshop 🙂
When using these levels, they don’t have to be exact in calibration. As long as you note where the bubble is and duplicate that with your bed adjustments, you’re fine. I do tend to get anal with my Starrett Master as well. But we really don’t have to. Is the cross slide parallel to the front and rear of the ways?
I would forget where the bubble was ! 👍
@24:24 Sorry Max but this is as interesting as watching paint dry, I just don't have the patience for it, Toot-a-loo.
I've known the odd person with a short attention span and a lack of appreciation for detail. Toot-a-loo.
Lol , you are lucky you did not have to do the editing ! 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshop 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Lookin good! Thanks for the look.
Cheers 👍