You dangerously starting to fill a hole that This Old Tony left with his rarer and rarer uploads. I mean everything is there. The hands. The narration. Even your fingernails is rather similar. Maybe less shenanigans, but that ain't that big of an issue :D
The Machinery's Handbook recommends not using cutting fluids with carbide tools unless you can really flood the cutting edge with a continuous stream of fluid. If you use insufficient fluid, or just the occasional spray or brush of fluid, the cutting edge is likely to be damaged by thermal shock, which will eventually lead to failure.
My grandpa gave me his old mill and tooling some time ago, and he had a collection of broken inserts that weighed about 50ibs. It's only gotten bigger since then lol
Regarding endmills, I recommend HHS-PM, these are much tougher then HHS-Co or HSS-E cutters and much cheaper then carbide. Once you ran a HSS-PM roughing endmill on a smaller mill, you start asking yourself, if your mill is really that capable. HSS-PM is also designed to work well without coolant.
When it comes to endmills, i can highly recommend to use 2 flute end mills for general work and roughing, if you are not in a hurry. they are not too dissimilar to drills in terms of resharpening, which means, you can use up the lower portion of the edge and just regrind the face each time it wears out. you can check if you ground them evenly with a square and even if the edges are like 0.2mm off, they still perform relatively well. If you have a sharp angled grinding stine on your bench grinder, you might be able to regrind the faces of 3 flute end mills, but anything above is extremely difficult, if at all possible.I also recommend to grind the 2 flute endmills assymetricly, so they can cut downwards cleanly. you do it a bit like web thinning on a drill, just unevenly on purpose.
I work at a factory that does primarily plastics. For cutting plastic we exclusively run HSS and sharpen very regularly. He mentioned it briefly with acetal, but for cutting gummy plastics like HDPE and ot TPE/TPU, sharp HSS is king, and one of the only things that can actually break a chip
I use carbide simply because I cant be f'd fluffing around grinding tools and setting tool heights each time. For special occasions, all good. A big thing I have found is that using polished aluminium inserts on soft steel work mint. Similar to a really sharp HSS tool.
You might look into recycling your carbide inserts as a consideration for your stockpile of used inserts. I believe that Sandvik and Kennametal (at the very least) have recycling programs to reduce the need for new raw materials all the time. This reduces the need for sourcing the limited stock of Tungsten/Tantalum/Titanium (depending on what type of carbide is being used) and (potentially more importantly, especially ethically) the need for extraction of cobalt.
Thank you for a nice run through! I have to admit I haven't learned to know the differences, and make any much informed choices really. I'm 61, and when I started out with the occasional machining in my teens, there wasn't anything but HSS. And there was endless reading about how to grind the tools. Too much I think! It just daunted me into thinking I couldn't do it. So when I returned to occasional machining after a 30-40 year hiatus, carbide tips just felt like a liberation factor! Kind of how people felt when "the pill" arrived. Much more joy and less worry. I learned of solid carbide tooling by very lucky chance! I had these laser cut parts out of stainless steel, but the exact shape had to be experimentally found out. So I bought a small carbide cutter - not knowing what I did - and used it freehand in a Dremel tool, to carve out the exact shape. As if I was carving wood with a knife! That 3mm carbide endmill has earned it's place in the hall of fame!😄 A very old and experienced toolmaker just looked at me in awe, commenting, that would never have been possible with anything but solid carbide. I think he considered my working methods exceptionally odd at times. But we taught each other things, and in the end we made a (my) patented idea also work in real life, and go into production. It was the perfect old meets new. (Unfortunately I could not afford to hire him permanently to serve his last years, as was suggested.) I bet that man could have hand ground a workable endmill! He did it with drillbits all the time!😀
I was taught how to hand grind drill bits by an old toolmaker enough years ago that the buildings we were in have been gone 3 decades. I agree with you about those old toolmakers being able to hand grind end mills.
Honestly, this is the best summary type video on the topic out there for the homeshopper, and I've seen a few. Just tooled up my 7x10 Sieg lathe following the same principles you mentioned, keep it up man!
Your gonna run carbides on a 7 x 10 lathe? I wouldn’t cut much more than plastics and light aluminum work with them. They love heavy loads to cut well and will destroy tool holders and posts and basically destroy little lathes. Make sure you buy the correct inserts for mini lathes.
I don't currently own any hss tooling. Carbide lathe inserts are disposably cheap if you shop. Carbide milling end mills in sizes up to 5/16 can be had in specialty cutters that can handle hours in the cut of titanium or stainless and will cost from $5 to $15 per cutter if you shop hard. Small machines don't have a lot of rigidity so I only break out 1/2" and larger when rarely needed. The carbide even cheap carbide you can abuse the bottom of the mill and they last a while. Hss end mills in smaller sizes aren't cheaper than carbide.
Nice explaination! I use a lot of inserts too on my lathe. For my 'mill' that is still on my little Unimat SL with milling-plate... well I use carbide too, the small inserts that are cheap (like 3 $ for 5) for CNC's. That is mostly since that machine cannot work well with bigger tools. About the old inserts: the other points can probably be used in a fly-cutter too. I'm also collecting them and probably use them for that at some time when I have a better miling-setup.
I run a HAAS VF5 and this video still helps a lot to get some basic info down, especially the face endmill you made. A lot of on the job "training" is just "do this, and hit the green button"
end mill sharpening services are a great alternative compared to buying new, both for HSS as well as carbide. sharpening costs between $5 and $15 here in the US (for 5mm to 16mm), and is usually done on CNC rigs. the end mills I get back from my sharpening service perform better than the original. This works for sharpening just the front, but also reworking the side flutes (in case of chippage, the diameter gets smaller), or just shortening the tool (which is fine in many cases)
Great video, nothing conflicting to my experience. And a couple of things I never thought about. When starting working in a machine shop in the seventies, carbide inserts was common. Before CNC machines existed. When started with CNC lathes in the eighties, only used inserts. Now a retired hobby machinist. Mostly same tooling as you use. But not sure if I prefer HSS or carbide for parting off in different materials.
The only thing I use HSS for on the lathe in my homeshop is for Forming Tools for everything else I use Carbide Inserts. Yeah they can be pricey but at long as you take care of them they'll last for quite a while and they just work, there's no dicking around having to regrind the cutting edge you just pop your tool holder in and you're good to go.
another big consideration for the mill is spindle speed, for the "classical" mills like the one you have, you have the option to go HSS. On machines with the Chinese high speed spindles, like my Milo, you dont get that option as the HSS would basically burn up instantly, as the minimum RPM is at least like 12-15k..
High speed steel also has a lower cutting pressure. This is useful when chattering is a problem. High-speed Steel has saved my backside a few times now
When you overheat HSS, I’d doesn’t lose its temper, it loses its hardness. To temper is to impart toughness , high temper = low hardness, high toughness . Cheers , good vid.
You have to take it to about 400-500c for it start to lose hardness and still remains my point. But you will change the other aspects of the temper too.
most of my work is 6061, and I am using mostly the super sharp insert styles design for alu. i do occasionally stainless steel and regular steel, and those inserts work perfectly fine (may not have the longest service life). the interesting thing about the sharp carbide inserts is that you can re-hone them with a diamond stone, since the cutting edge geometry isn't that complex.
I've always thought it would be cool if someone made HSS inserts that would fit carbide insert holders. You could even make them from powdered HSS the same as carbide. Would be great for hobbyists.
About the consistency und surface finish from inserts. I worked at a cnc lathe shop and one of the machines turned pieces ofstainless steel hex bar down for some special bolts. Everything went fine (this machine then was one of the loudest of all while roughing the hex profile) until I changed the insert for a fresh one. After that, the surface finish was ruined and we spent the next one and a half days to find a solution (changing speeds & feeds, adding tail support, etc.).
An old carbide endmill got me out of a jam recently. I ordered some cabinet scrapers to finish a piece of high end furniture for a family member and I’d always heard that you can use a screwdriver to burnish the cutting edge but it was nowhere near hard enough. The carbide endmill made quick work of the job and I was able to get a really good shaving out of my scrapers.
Great idea. I bought a carbide burnisher from Lee Valley years ago before doing any metal work, but a worn out end mill glued into a piece of wood would be basically the same thing for free. I like it better than my old hardened steel burnisher because it doesn't rust.
I would advise you to get a proper grinding wheel for the hss... you'll get more consistent results and less burnt tools... My pet peeve with carbide is how easily they chip if you turn off the power whilst in the cut... High positive raked HSS is great for reducing the HP required , important on a small lathe... Nice vid ! 😎👍☘️🍻
Man I think you are wrong about sharpening endmills. You can usually get a 1/2" HSS end mill resharpened for like $5 or less, and carbide for around $10, a bit more if you want either coated (which you do). Granted they are rarely exactly 1/2" when they return, but they grind to a usable size, like .495. The size doesn't really matter though since you are cutting with either a DRO or measuring the part anyway. In fact I buy reground endmills almost exclusively.
Indexable carbide tooling is the subscription service of tooling manufacturers. How many times can you sharpen a 3 inch long HSS turning tool? Unless youre only turning 4140 or hardened steel at high production volumes high speed tooling is cheaper in the long run.
I machine a fair bit of cast iron castings for my trains and these have chilled spots here and there which hss won't touch but the carbide us735 cuts it like butter, I do like hss but the inserts are so convenient.
If your little machine can spin fast enough to match the surface speed profile, carbide makes perfect sense. That said, you absolutely can put an extremely sharp edge onto carbide with diamond, either a wheel or even with plates, it just takes a LONG time, because if you go too fast it will likely chip at the micro level.
Yes, the usual Artisan Makes style we like! But after that face revealing video don't forget to make another channel for housrwives where you do the hacksaw thing with oiled upper body and so 😂 because after my girlfriends saw it I think there is a demand to it
Really interesting stuff indeed! Thanks a bunch, dude!!! 😃 But yeah, I guess I'm going to keep my hobbyist interests in wood for now. 😬 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I'm always happy to come to a video that explains why you think a particular way is best, discusses the alternatives, and acknowledges that YMMV. So-called "influencers" who knows The One True Way are friggin' annoying
They do for lathes, you can by pre-ground HSS inserts. Look up accusize pre-ground inserts for lathe. I bought them when starting out so I had an idea of how to grind them.
What I mean is, the same size as carbide inserts CCMT, DCMT, etc. I looked at those and they're full length HSS tools pre-ground. About $50 a set. I guess kyocera makes some CCMT out of HSS, but they're more expensive than carbide. 🤯
carbide inserts are used in industry, hss not so much (anymore).. thus economies of scale give us "cheap" carbide inserts, but no hss inserts (for hobby machines).
Thanks for the video, good perspective. I use both. A lot of carbide but my cut off tool is HSS and I do use the tangential tool holder with HSS too, both are quick to sharpen. I think my lathe may be more rigid that some of the small lathes though.
So, now if we have a Quorn T&C grinder or a look alike Chinese model, you can make/remake cutters with end profiles that are consistent as opposed to hand ground might work cutters for economy etc and carbide really does need to have good end profiles to ensure they are supported on the all important edge area. I have a couple of facing cutters with 5 or 6 carbide inserts but the cost of replacing a set, as they seem to easily chip, and it's too much of a cost for most machining that can be done with solid carbide end mills and fly cutters.
I'm pretty good at sharpening drills, but I've never managed to get an end mill to cut well after resharpening. Square end makes it very difficult to polish one blade without touching the other and dulling it. I suppose I could try grinding one to a not-quite-square end for roughing, though. You can't really use them for finish work anyway since grinding material off the side-cutting blades means they no longer cut a proper vertical wall either.
carbide inserts are cheap because they are being used so widely.. hss inserts - not so much. This is the result of economies of scale. Hobby carbide use rides on the coattails of CNC machinery needing this stuff.
Any suggestions for milling off forge scale? I know its aggresive but would be such a timer and effort saver to be able to do it without the dusty mess of grinders
ebay job-lots are your friend for carbide tooling. I just picked up >100 6-16mm carbide endmills for ~£100 for the lot. most slightly used but all in good condition, brand names. lifetime supply. wish my minimill went a bit faster to take propper advantage of the smaller ones though.
Very interesting thanks. Crobalt is great on harder stuff, can be sharpened and does not need coolant. Eccentric Engineering sells it. Sort of a poor mans Carbide but deceptively effective especially in a Diamond tool holder
The big shell mill i have creates mirror finishes on the part but i bought it as it's near to impossible to make such a shell mill without it being unround.
Make jewelry from the carbide that looks nice anyway. It's probably a dumb question, cant the carbide be resharpened with a diamond grinding disc? Just enough to get the edge back?
Carbide endmills and cutting tools can be if they’re just dulled and you have the right machine and jig to do it. But the economics of inserts makes it cheaper to replace them.
16:30 - rigidity of a machine became less important with more rpm. all you say applies well to a conventional mill with spindle speed up to 3000-6000rpm, but when you came to CNC territory its another story. HSS tooling is just doesn't work. but with carbide even small 80-100kg "router" (which is nearly not as rigid as cast iron mill) will remove material much faster using HSM strategies.
I used cheap Chinese inserts for years. Then I changed to branded inserts and would never go back. Sure they cost more, but if you choose the right brand it's not that much more. Kyocera is a good compromise.
You might get quite some return by asking the producers to take back the inserts. They can be recycled easily and the production cycle is very costly. If it was for recycling only, carbide inserts would cost a fraction and make them really affordable compared to HSS.
I run my HSS drills at 60 sfm, compared to 500 sfm for solid carbide drills. I can normally also get a higher chip load with carbide. But that’s from a guy who runs a 30 foot diameter vertical lathe with live tooling
Aah - now we're talking a proper machine. I worked on one the same size back in the late 70's. Schiess Froriep @ Vickers Ruwolt in Richmond (now Ikea). Beautiful machine that could do fine work or major cuts. My most memorable was 25mm deep 3mm feed. Some times it would chip beautifully and other times (in the same cut) it wouldn't. Then you had 25x3mm bar coming straight off the tool.... Its weight would break it at about a bit over a metre long.
I have some SECO finishing inserts that call for 500-700m/min speed for steel. They leave a mirror finish in mild steel. That's 20-30 times more than HSS max speeds and HSS will never make a mirror finish in mild steel.
There's a big difference between korean and chinese carbide. Chinese carbide can be sharpened / ground, Korean carbide can be used to grind the grinder.
Gear Cutters i also only found as HSS there is no Carbide version. There are also diffrent cutting edges like there are some that have little bumps that are more for roughing and interrupted cuts.
@@platin2148 I only searched for carbide gear hob and results came up, while nothing for cutters. As for power skiving vs hobbing - no idea.. I'm not from the trade. I'm just an engineer with a hobby-shop. ;-)
hi. ever thought of making a 3000 to 6000 grit diamond wheel. you can polish both types with one grit rpm..s in 1000 to 2500rmp.. works well . and you only have to touch the face and its done.. instead of grinding.. so much better and faster. evern on carbide.. tone U.K.
End Mills i buy HSS-PM or Carbide there is no normal HSS anymore it i can simply not work with it. I do have insert end mills down to 6 mm Well the quality cutter from Germany i have as HSS which i don't really use is 25 bucks.
aluminium inserts since they are uncoated cannot run faster than 80% of what was recommanded for coated inserts(TiCN) or 40% of TiAlN coated inserts i recommand 100m/min and only on small finishing cuts, they are too sharp to handle the heat compared to normal finishing steel carbides and i mean 100m/min on 162HB C45, lower for higher HB
You will never never be able to achieve the efficiency necessary to maximize carbide cutting tools can offer on a slow, (Low RPM 2000 and under) or low horsepower machines. It will not matter if you are using a mill or a lathe. High speed is normally used at 60 to 80 surface speed, carbide's normal range is between 300 and 1000 Surface speed, and much higher for aluminum. A piece of 1" Diameter steel clamped in a lathe would need to run 4000 rpm to get to 1000 surface speed, that along with a constant stream of coolant would get you the most from a carbide insert. This is a real problem for most home shop machinist. CNC machines do well because they are designed around carbide cutting process. TIGHT Environmental CONTROL, constant and variable spindle speed relative to the feed no matter diameter of the part or cutter. The tools you show in your post are correct choice for light low horsepower machines, but even at that most of their cutting potential is lost.
You dangerously starting to fill a hole that This Old Tony left with his rarer and rarer uploads. I mean everything is there. The hands. The narration. Even your fingernails is rather similar. Maybe less shenanigans, but that ain't that big of an issue :D
I knew his videos like this reminded me of someone.
@@jeffwithheldforsafety8359 So it's not just me!
Is this the beginning of an elaborate and unnecessary conspiracy theory?
@@Salmonandfriends unfortunately, we have seen both their faces already :(
“Keep my wife's name out your lathing mouth"
The Machinery's Handbook recommends not using cutting fluids with carbide tools unless you can really flood the cutting edge with a continuous stream of fluid. If you use insufficient fluid, or just the occasional spray or brush of fluid, the cutting edge is likely to be damaged by thermal shock, which will eventually lead to failure.
Thanks for the info
Why I use carbide is because my work uses carbide and a conservative change frequency so a lot of the "dead" tools still have some use for home
My grandpa gave me his old mill and tooling some time ago, and he had a collection of broken inserts that weighed about 50ibs. It's only gotten bigger since then lol
You can recycle that for a good chunk of change
@vivigarr most definitely altho having spare carbides is nice for tool making or weights
Regarding endmills, I recommend HHS-PM, these are much tougher then HHS-Co or HSS-E cutters and much cheaper then carbide. Once you ran a HSS-PM roughing endmill on a smaller mill, you start asking yourself, if your mill is really that capable. HSS-PM is also designed to work well without coolant.
When it comes to endmills, i can highly recommend to use 2 flute end mills for general work and roughing, if you are not in a hurry. they are not too dissimilar to drills in terms of resharpening, which means, you can use up the lower portion of the edge and just regrind the face each time it wears out. you can check if you ground them evenly with a square and even if the edges are like 0.2mm off, they still perform relatively well. If you have a sharp angled grinding stine on your bench grinder, you might be able to regrind the faces of 3 flute end mills, but anything above is extremely difficult, if at all possible.I also recommend to grind the 2 flute endmills assymetricly, so they can cut downwards cleanly. you do it a bit like web thinning on a drill, just unevenly on purpose.
End mills that have 2 flutes are called slot drills. Learn to use cutters correctly and you will find you don't break/damage the tools as much.
Glad to see your finger is healing up well :)
I always look forward to seeing your videos each week.
Sorry honey cant make it to your parents Artisan Makes just uploaded a new video
I know, right.
I work at a factory that does primarily plastics. For cutting plastic we exclusively run HSS and sharpen very regularly. He mentioned it briefly with acetal, but for cutting gummy plastics like HDPE and ot TPE/TPU, sharp HSS is king, and one of the only things that can actually break a chip
"Choose the cutting tool that works for you" this is a secrete nod to "use what ever tools you can knock off from work"
I use carbide simply because I cant be f'd fluffing around grinding tools and setting tool heights each time. For special occasions, all good.
A big thing I have found is that using polished aluminium inserts on soft steel work mint. Similar to a really sharp HSS tool.
Ya finger is looking better mate, good to see it healing well.
You might look into recycling your carbide inserts as a consideration for your stockpile of used inserts. I believe that Sandvik and Kennametal (at the very least) have recycling programs to reduce the need for new raw materials all the time. This reduces the need for sourcing the limited stock of Tungsten/Tantalum/Titanium (depending on what type of carbide is being used) and (potentially more importantly, especially ethically) the need for extraction of cobalt.
Thanks for sharing our experiences
Thank you for a nice run through! I have to admit I haven't learned to know the differences, and make any much informed choices really. I'm 61, and when I started out with the occasional machining in my teens, there wasn't anything but HSS. And there was endless reading about how to grind the tools. Too much I think! It just daunted me into thinking I couldn't do it.
So when I returned to occasional machining after a 30-40 year hiatus, carbide tips just felt like a liberation factor! Kind of how people felt when "the pill" arrived. Much more joy and less worry.
I learned of solid carbide tooling by very lucky chance! I had these laser cut parts out of stainless steel, but the exact shape had to be experimentally found out. So I bought a small carbide cutter - not knowing what I did - and used it freehand in a Dremel tool, to carve out the exact shape. As if I was carving wood with a knife! That 3mm carbide endmill has earned it's place in the hall of fame!😄
A very old and experienced toolmaker just looked at me in awe, commenting, that would never have been possible with anything but solid carbide.
I think he considered my working methods exceptionally odd at times. But we taught each other things, and in the end we made a (my) patented idea also work in real life, and go into production. It was the perfect old meets new. (Unfortunately I could not afford to hire him permanently to serve his last years, as was suggested.) I bet that man could have hand ground a workable endmill! He did it with drillbits all the time!😀
I was taught how to hand grind drill bits by an old toolmaker enough years ago that the buildings we were in have been gone 3 decades. I agree with you about those old toolmakers being able to hand grind end mills.
Honestly, this is the best summary type video on the topic out there for the homeshopper, and I've seen a few. Just tooled up my 7x10 Sieg lathe following the same principles you mentioned, keep it up man!
Your gonna run carbides on a 7 x 10 lathe? I wouldn’t cut much more than plastics and light aluminum work with them. They love heavy loads to cut well and will destroy tool holders and posts and basically destroy little lathes. Make sure you buy the correct inserts for mini lathes.
There is also the middle ground inbetween HSS and carbide inserts. Carbide blanks that can be ground the same way as HSS with the right wheel
Carbide for me is the clear winner especially w.r.t. the hardness of material that can be cut and the high feeds and speeds obtained.
I don't currently own any hss tooling. Carbide lathe inserts are disposably cheap if you shop. Carbide milling end mills in sizes up to 5/16 can be had in specialty cutters that can handle hours in the cut of titanium or stainless and will cost from $5 to $15 per cutter if you shop hard. Small machines don't have a lot of rigidity so I only break out 1/2" and larger when rarely needed. The carbide even cheap carbide you can abuse the bottom of the mill and they last a while. Hss end mills in smaller sizes aren't cheaper than carbide.
Nice explaination!
I use a lot of inserts too on my lathe.
For my 'mill' that is still on my little Unimat SL with milling-plate... well I use carbide too, the small inserts that are cheap (like 3 $ for 5) for CNC's. That is mostly since that machine cannot work well with bigger tools.
About the old inserts: the other points can probably be used in a fly-cutter too. I'm also collecting them and probably use them for that at some time when I have a better miling-setup.
I run a HAAS VF5 and this video still helps a lot to get some basic info down, especially the face endmill you made. A lot of on the job "training" is just "do this, and hit the green button"
end mill sharpening services are a great alternative compared to buying new, both for HSS as well as carbide. sharpening costs between $5 and $15 here in the US (for 5mm to 16mm), and is usually done on CNC rigs. the end mills I get back from my sharpening service perform better than the original. This works for sharpening just the front, but also reworking the side flutes (in case of chippage, the diameter gets smaller), or just shortening the tool (which is fine in many cases)
Great video, nothing conflicting to my experience. And a couple of things I never thought about.
When starting working in a machine shop in the seventies, carbide inserts was common. Before CNC machines existed. When started with CNC lathes in the eighties, only used inserts. Now a retired hobby machinist. Mostly same tooling as you use. But not sure if I prefer HSS or carbide for parting off in different materials.
The only thing I use HSS for on the lathe in my homeshop is for Forming Tools for everything else I use Carbide Inserts. Yeah they can be pricey but at long as you take care of them they'll last for quite a while and they just work, there's no dicking around having to regrind the cutting edge you just pop your tool holder in and you're good to go.
another big consideration for the mill is spindle speed, for the "classical" mills like the one you have, you have the option to go HSS. On machines with the Chinese high speed spindles, like my Milo, you dont get that option as the HSS would basically burn up instantly, as the minimum RPM is at least like 12-15k..
High speed steel also has a lower cutting pressure. This is useful when chattering is a problem. High-speed Steel has saved my backside a few times now
FYI you can buy HSS inserts but they are more expensive than carbide inserts.
When you overheat HSS, I’d doesn’t lose its temper, it loses its hardness. To temper is to impart toughness , high temper = low hardness, high toughness . Cheers , good vid.
You have to take it to about 400-500c for it start to lose hardness and still remains my point. But you will change the other aspects of the temper too.
most of my work is 6061, and I am using mostly the super sharp insert styles design for alu. i do occasionally stainless steel and regular steel, and those inserts work perfectly fine (may not have the longest service life). the interesting thing about the sharp carbide inserts is that you can re-hone them with a diamond stone, since the cutting edge geometry isn't that complex.
I've always thought it would be cool if someone made HSS inserts that would fit carbide insert holders. You could even make them from powdered HSS the same as carbide. Would be great for hobbyists.
About the consistency und surface finish from inserts. I worked at a cnc lathe shop and one of the machines turned pieces ofstainless steel hex bar down for some special bolts. Everything went fine (this machine then was one of the loudest of all while roughing the hex profile) until I changed the insert for a fresh one. After that, the surface finish was ruined and we spent the next one and a half days to find a solution (changing speeds & feeds, adding tail support, etc.).
Great information video. Enjoyed very much, cheers and thanks!
An old carbide endmill got me out of a jam recently. I ordered some cabinet scrapers to finish a piece of high end furniture for a family member and I’d always heard that you can use a screwdriver to burnish the cutting edge but it was nowhere near hard enough. The carbide endmill made quick work of the job and I was able to get a really good shaving out of my scrapers.
Great idea. I bought a carbide burnisher from Lee Valley years ago before doing any metal work, but a worn out end mill glued into a piece of wood would be basically the same thing for free. I like it better than my old hardened steel burnisher because it doesn't rust.
I would advise you to get a proper grinding wheel for the hss... you'll get more consistent results and less burnt tools...
My pet peeve with carbide is how easily they chip if you turn off the power whilst in the cut...
High positive raked HSS is great for reducing the HP required , important on a small lathe...
Nice vid !
😎👍☘️🍻
Man I think you are wrong about sharpening endmills.
You can usually get a 1/2" HSS end mill resharpened for like $5 or less, and carbide for around $10, a bit more if you want either coated (which you do). Granted they are rarely exactly 1/2" when they return, but they grind to a usable size, like .495. The size doesn't really matter though since you are cutting with either a DRO or measuring the part anyway.
In fact I buy reground endmills almost exclusively.
Indexable carbide tooling is the subscription service of tooling manufacturers. How many times can you sharpen a 3 inch long HSS turning tool? Unless youre only turning 4140 or hardened steel at high production volumes high speed tooling is cheaper in the long run.
cheaper in money or cheaper in time?
I machine a fair bit of cast iron castings for my trains and these have chilled spots here and there which hss won't touch but the carbide us735 cuts it like butter, I do like hss but the inserts are so convenient.
If your little machine can spin fast enough to match the surface speed profile, carbide makes perfect sense.
That said, you absolutely can put an extremely sharp edge onto carbide with diamond, either a wheel or even with plates, it just takes a LONG time, because if you go too fast it will likely chip at the micro level.
I've found that those sharp polished aluminium inserts are great for getting a good surface finish in most steel. They do a great light finishing pass
Especially with bigger nose radiuses. I like to use them for critical finishes too.
May I offer a compromise try using 10% Cobalt tool bits and drills and end mills
Yes, the usual Artisan Makes style we like! But after that face revealing video don't forget to make another channel for housrwives where you do the hacksaw thing with oiled upper body and so 😂 because after my girlfriends saw it I think there is a demand to it
Really interesting stuff indeed! Thanks a bunch, dude!!! 😃
But yeah, I guess I'm going to keep my hobbyist interests in wood for now. 😬
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I'm always happy to come to a video that explains why you think a particular way is best, discusses the alternatives, and acknowledges that YMMV. So-called "influencers" who knows The One True Way are friggin' annoying
Good use case, well laid out, thanks! 👍💪✌
Why don't they sell HSS inserts, so I don't have to grind them myself?
They do for lathes, you can by pre-ground HSS inserts. Look up accusize pre-ground inserts for lathe. I bought them when starting out so I had an idea of how to grind them.
What I mean is, the same size as carbide inserts CCMT, DCMT, etc. I looked at those and they're full length HSS tools pre-ground. About $50 a set. I guess kyocera makes some CCMT out of HSS, but they're more expensive than carbide. 🤯
carbide inserts are used in industry, hss not so much (anymore).. thus economies of scale give us "cheap" carbide inserts, but no hss inserts (for hobby machines).
I grind my broken carbide end mills for use as cutting tools on the lathe. For shaping i take the coarse diamond wheel and for sharpening a CBN.
you can braze the broken ones on to sq stock and grind custom tools
Thanks for the video, good perspective.
I use both. A lot of carbide but my cut off tool is HSS and I do use the tangential tool holder with HSS too, both are quick to sharpen. I think my lathe may be more rigid that some of the small lathes though.
delrin/acetal can be sanded, and you can sand to a very fine grid affecting the surface finish
Many thanks for your fantastic video like always. 👏👌🌹
So, now if we have a Quorn T&C grinder or a look alike Chinese model, you can make/remake cutters with end profiles that are consistent as opposed to hand ground might work cutters for economy etc and carbide really does need to have good end profiles to ensure they are supported on the all important edge area.
I have a couple of facing cutters with 5 or 6 carbide inserts but the cost of replacing a set, as they seem to easily chip, and it's too much of a cost for most machining that can be done with solid carbide end mills and fly cutters.
I'm pretty good at sharpening drills, but I've never managed to get an end mill to cut well after resharpening. Square end makes it very difficult to polish one blade without touching the other and dulling it. I suppose I could try grinding one to a not-quite-square end for roughing, though. You can't really use them for finish work anyway since grinding material off the side-cutting blades means they no longer cut a proper vertical wall either.
Great info man, thanks.
For the fly cutter, or othets, how about HSS inserts? 🤔
carbide inserts are cheap because they are being used so widely.. hss inserts - not so much. This is the result of economies of scale. Hobby carbide use rides on the coattails of CNC machinery needing this stuff.
Thanks for sharing this information!
Any suggestions for milling off forge scale? I know its aggresive but would be such a timer and effort saver to be able to do it without the dusty mess of grinders
Carbide end mills are also best for those wanting to mill carbon fibre. HSS overheats and dulls very quickly in this scenario.
High speed steel is a huge scam. It stays still if left alone. Doesn't move at all, let alone at hight speed.
You can get HSS inserts they are simple to re sharpen and ready to plug and play.
ebay job-lots are your friend for carbide tooling. I just picked up >100 6-16mm carbide endmills for ~£100 for the lot. most slightly used but all in good condition, brand names. lifetime supply. wish my minimill went a bit faster to take propper advantage of the smaller ones though.
Very interesting thanks. Crobalt is great on harder stuff, can be sharpened and does not need coolant. Eccentric Engineering sells it. Sort of a poor mans Carbide but deceptively effective especially in a Diamond tool holder
The big shell mill i have creates mirror finishes on the part but i bought it as it's near to impossible to make such a shell mill without it being unround.
cobalt drills are pretty good to not as tough as carbide but still gets the job done
Make jewelry from the carbide that looks nice anyway. It's probably a dumb question, cant the carbide be resharpened with a diamond grinding disc? Just enough to get the edge back?
Carbide endmills and cutting tools can be if they’re just dulled and you have the right machine and jig to do it. But the economics of inserts makes it cheaper to replace them.
Do you find that more expensive (non-chinese) inserts give better cutting results or last considerably longer?
I use old inserts in my Vibratory Tumbler.
Hi, why do you have a bolt screwed into the back of the cutter?
16:30 - rigidity of a machine became less important with more rpm. all you say applies well to a conventional mill with spindle speed up to 3000-6000rpm, but when you came to CNC territory its another story. HSS tooling is just doesn't work.
but with carbide even small 80-100kg "router" (which is nearly not as rigid as cast iron mill) will remove material much faster using HSM strategies.
I used cheap Chinese inserts for years. Then I changed to branded inserts and would never go back. Sure they cost more, but if you choose the right brand it's not that much more. Kyocera is a good compromise.
What happened with the audio? There's sounds that are left or right channel only
You might get quite some return by asking the producers to take back the inserts. They can be recycled easily and the production cycle is very costly. If it was for recycling only, carbide inserts would cost a fraction and make them really affordable compared to HSS.
I run my HSS drills at 60 sfm, compared to 500 sfm for solid carbide drills. I can normally also get a higher chip load with carbide. But that’s from a guy who runs a 30 foot diameter vertical lathe with live tooling
Aah - now we're talking a proper machine. I worked on one the same size back in the late 70's. Schiess Froriep @ Vickers Ruwolt in Richmond (now Ikea). Beautiful machine that could do fine work or major cuts. My most memorable was 25mm deep 3mm feed. Some times it would chip beautifully and other times (in the same cut) it wouldn't. Then you had 25x3mm bar coming straight off the tool.... Its weight would break it at about a bit over a metre long.
Have two types of STGCR 1212H 11 holders with triangular 3 tip insert.
7:15 maybe I missed something in the past videos where it'd be apparent, but... Why does this tool has a cap head screw at the other end? 🤔
Looks like it has a rotatable end section so it hat the angle of the insert can be adjusted.
An other type of lathe tooling that I like is brazed carbide blanks, they're really cheap and much like hss you just grind them to shape
I have those laying around, never used them. Can I use the regular wheelgrinder stones?
I have some SECO finishing inserts that call for 500-700m/min speed for steel. They leave a mirror finish in mild steel. That's 20-30 times more than HSS max speeds and HSS will never make a mirror finish in mild steel.
Hss and single crystal Carbide can be so sharp.
There's a big difference between korean and chinese carbide. Chinese carbide can be sharpened / ground, Korean carbide can be used to grind the grinder.
I prefer cobb-eyed too.
Make me a dead blow hammer top and I’ll make you a nice rosewood and Ironbark handle. I’m Sydney 👌🏻
What make is your lathe
very good
Gear Cutters i also only found as HSS there is no Carbide version.
There are also diffrent cutting edges like there are some that have little bumps that are more for roughing and interrupted cuts.
hm.. carbide gear hobs ARE a thing though. The cutters are 'hobby', thus no carbide?!
@@joansparky4439 I didn't see a carbide gearhob mostly hss with tin. I tough gears today are very often skived as that is less costly and faster.
@@platin2148 I only searched for carbide gear hob and results came up, while nothing for cutters.
As for power skiving vs hobbing - no idea.. I'm not from the trade. I'm just an engineer with a hobby-shop. ;-)
hi. ever thought of making a 3000 to 6000 grit diamond wheel. you can polish both types with one grit rpm..s in 1000 to 2500rmp.. works well . and you only have to touch the face and its done.. instead of grinding.. so much better and faster. evern on carbide.. tone U.K.
24:45 "do what works
best for you with your machines and your
budget"...
holds up a piece of used sandpaper...
Yay
End Mills i buy HSS-PM or Carbide there is no normal HSS anymore it i can simply not work with it.
I do have insert end mills down to 6 mm
Well the quality cutter from Germany i have as HSS which i don't really use is 25 bucks.
What is ass it all and how do I get some
aluminium inserts since they are uncoated cannot run faster than 80% of what was recommanded for coated inserts(TiCN) or 40% of TiAlN coated inserts
i recommand 100m/min and only on small finishing cuts, they are too sharp to handle the heat compared to normal finishing steel carbides
and i mean 100m/min on 162HB C45, lower for higher HB
For the algorithm.
Interesting
Carbide over HSS.
Just get the right tooling.
You will never never be able to achieve the efficiency necessary to maximize carbide cutting tools can offer on a slow, (Low RPM 2000 and under) or low horsepower machines. It will not matter if you are using a mill or a lathe. High speed is normally used at 60 to 80 surface speed, carbide's normal range is between 300 and 1000 Surface speed, and much higher for aluminum.
A piece of 1" Diameter steel clamped in a lathe would need to run 4000 rpm to get to 1000 surface speed, that along with a constant stream of coolant would get you the most from a carbide insert. This is a real problem for most home shop machinist.
CNC machines do well because they are designed around carbide cutting process. TIGHT Environmental CONTROL, constant and variable spindle speed relative to the feed no matter diameter of the part or cutter.
The tools you show in your post are correct choice for light low horsepower machines, but even at that most of their cutting potential is lost.
Hope your hand is ok…
cool early
Scrap carbide 13,- kg / lead 1,50 kg.....
HSS is only cheap if you dont value your time!
I only use carbide… I’d rather pay up front and know my tools are going to cut
electric hand file
Early lesgo
Can you tell us what happend to your finger ?
see other video from a month ago