Yamaha AT-2 MX CDI ignition fixed, RUNS GREAT, silencer works good too.
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- In this video I get the CDI ignition fixed on the AT-2 MX. I rewire most of the stator, clean lots of corrosion from mounting areas, and cable connections. Replace a resistor spark plug cap with a non resistor cap, and install yet another coil. Not sure out of everything done what fixed the issue, but it is fixed and the engine rev's as it should and runs and idles great.
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If you like motorcycles, OR machining, OR fabrication, or watching a rare, very talented and skilled expert with a ton of patience and perseverance at work, this is your channel!!
You can't just call Dale a "mechanic". Let's say "Technician" for lack of any better term. His work makes the others often seen seem like "Cavemen" by comparison!
Must watch channel!!
Go Dale!
Thanks for the kind words, Robert, not sure I'm very deserving of them though. This has been a learning process for me. Pretty sure it won't be the last. Thats OK though, keeps the old brain busy.
Great timing!!! It RUNS!!!! Way to go, Dale. And great job on the silencer. Amazing!!
Thanks Jim and thanks for spending time with me in the shop.
The great sweet sound of the 2 stroke engine.
Thank you my friend and brother. !! 👍👍👍
Great lesson in perseverance and patience. Happy for you Dale. Appears your audience is knowledgeable as well.
Thanks Graham, it was a real brain teaser for this old guy. CDI has never been my strong suit. I have learned a lot and made my peace with it.... I think. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
That things sounds very healthy and the new silencer is perfect from where I'm sitting. Nice work.
Thank you, I am pleased with how it turned out. It really does knock the bark down a bit. Plus, it gives me that retro look that the bike needed. I fabricated this one around the basic design of the Answer products silencers of the day. Thanks for going along on the ride.
Great job Dale! The silencer sounds great... glad you got it corrected. 👍
Thanks Taylor, it was an experience for sure. Got some more experimenting coming up, just is fun to mess with. Really like the silencer, it turned out just the way I wanted.
The silencer sounds awesome your Neighbors will thank you for that LOL. As I told you before I'm building another MX this time not street legal and I definitely want to do this set up on my mx love watching your videos keep up the good work 🙂👍
Thank you, Marcel, yes, I'm sure the neighbors will be happier for sure. This has been a learning experience for me. I was sure it would work, but I have learned a lesson here to go through the used parts and inspect for corrosion in all the connectors and mating surfaces. I plan to do some more conversions like this, I plan to use a RM Suzuki PEI ignition on the next Yamaha. But rest assured I will inspect it carefully. I have found through my experimentation that the backing plate from the early Yamaha MX and YZ 250 and 360 will fit the 130 mm case of the 125/175. It looks like it will work if you recut one slot for the adjustment and of course you have to use the 125 internal rotor, because of the crankshaft size difference. Anyway, it is fun to get all this stuff to work together, but it's really nice if it works without unforeseen problems. Let me know how your project goes, your bikes are without a doubt some of the finest out there. You do great work, send me some pictures of your new project when you get going. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
I had a mx125 that had the same exhaust, but no muffler. The entire neighborhood hated me! I like what you have going there guy.
Hey Michael, I can certainly understand your neighbors on this one. Had the same experience riding my Hodaka Super Rat down city streets at 17. Man, those old folks hated me. Now......I'm the old folk. It goes full circle doesn't it.
Congratulations, Dale. I had every faith that you would get there. If I was a betting man I'd say that it was the corrosion degrading your signal but it matters not, you have a very crisp sounding bike now. The new silencer is a work of art, looks good and takes the edge off the noise. Perfect.
Best wishes, Dean.
Thanks Dean, I guess if I had to guess...your right it was probably the corrosion, but when I made the stator plate, I checked all the ohm readings, and they were in spec. I think that is why I just didn't bother with any further inspection. I like the silencer and the looks is more retro than the ones that are available. Will need some jetting in the spring. Thanks again for all the support and spending time in the shop with me.
Super underrated RUclips channel. Love your content man keep it up!
Thank you very much. Wish more would subscribe, all in good time I suppose.
She sounds good Dale. Congrats on the fix whatever it was it worked. Thanks for sharing brother.
Thanks buddy, I appreciate you going along for the ride.
Great job Dale, love your content and channel. Keep up the awesome work.
Thank you very much, glad to have you on board, and spending time with me in the shop.
Hey Finally !! The video I have been waiting for, Knew you would get there Dale, Sounds awesome and looks it, The bike is over 50 years old, so all that stuff needed attending to anyway, there was quite a lot of corrosion
there on and around that stator, and behind that pickup, those wires were probably in the same state. I recently found out myself only about 2 years ago that, If you have a resister Spark Plug you do not need a resister Cap, and visa versa, Recently built a Virago 535 Bobber and that had both Resister Cap and Resister Plugs, After changing the HT Caps it started and ran much better, So at least you have picked up some new knowledge on the way doing all that research into CDI Ignition systems, etc, etc, I am really pleased for you, and can say I also learnt a lot from these past 3 videos on this problem with this bike, What an awesome Channel this is, If your into classic 2 Smokes, this is the Channel to watch, Many Thanks for posting all this Stuff, You have the Gift !!! You can Have a good sleep now I bet !! Malc U.K.
Hey Malc, thanks for the kind words, yes this has been more than I bargained for. But looking back I have learned a lot and am looking forward to the next experiment. I am happy with the silencer too; it really does knock the noise down. Yes, my friend Peter told me about the spark plug caps, I found a supplier for the non-resistors NGK caps. I am still trying to stay away from resistor spark plugs, you just can't get them from NGK anymore, so I am slowly replacing my stash with Autolite plugs that are non-resistors. Back in the day I worked for a Ford dealership when I was riding these old bikes and I used Autolite then and had very good luck with them. I am already thinking about my next CDI experiment, I have just pick up a RM 250 PEI system from Kevin Bergeron and I may try to install it on a small CC Yamaha. This stuff is just fun, but of course you hope you don't have unforeseen issues like this time. But I learned a lot and am thankful for all the help and ideas/suggestions that I got from folks along the way. Thank for hanging out in the shop with me.
Great film Dale. You are right about corrosion and other impurities acting to cause poor grounding and short circuits. Metal oxides are generally semiconductors. I haven't had much time for youtube recently, so I am now catching up on all your new films. It is a pleasant task!
Thanks Carl, I am thinking that was probably the issue. Electrical, and especially CDI are not my strong suit. But I learned a lot with this project, and I am sure that I am not through learning. I too am falling behind on some of my you tube watching, pretty busy putting out content myself right now. But yes, it is pleasant to take a day off and just watch and learn from others and enjoy the ride.
@@montana2strokeracer Well I certainly am learning from you.
Well done Dale, even though you did "correct" several issues in one shot all of those problems deserved attention, the fact you hit the target even though you don't know exactly which one was at fault causing the running issue, all of the items you worked on needed your attention, it's not like you were "arbitrarily guessing" if those issues were real or not.
Thank you, Peter, it just had a lot of issues, I am a bit mad at myself for not going through a better inspection prior to doing this modification. I really just wanted to see if I could make a factory set up work on a bike that it never came on. These parts did cost about a fourth of what a new aftermarket unit cost. I have plans to do some more like this, but now I know to do a good inspection and fix anything that is questionable. I did do an ohm check on all the components when I made the stator plate, but that check did not show any discrepancies. Anyhow, I sure appreciate your help. Thanks for spending time in the shop with me.
Great job Dale 👌
Thank you, sir, I appreciate you going along on the ride. I have learned so much the last couple weeks about CDI. Probably more than I ever wanted to know.
great job dale no u would figure it out sounds sweet well done keep it going
Thanks buddy, I sure appreciate you going along for the ride.
Dale, some great pointers there to keep in mind for my build. thanks.
Hey thanks for joining me on this journey, I think this thing will really run well. Just a big learning curve on this one. But am already thinking about the next experiment. Wish you luck with your build, hey send me some pictures of your project when you get a chance. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
@@montana2strokeracer Tanks Dale. Certainly will try to send pics. It is back in India, I am IT guy and started the restoration for fun during covid time when stuck at home to keep me occupied, I am planning to finish it the next time I go there. btw, it's a 1987 Yamaha RX-100 motorcycle.
Ha! We call that "shotgunning a problem! Yeah, I do it too sometimes. What matters is it's fixed, and I bet you're glad, as am I.
So, to clarify a few things.
A points style system generally sends 6 to 12 volts or so pulsing through the coil. The term CDI is of course, "Capacitive Discharge Ignition. A capacitor is charged, then discharged through the coil at several hundred volts instead of 6 to 12 or so. That's why the coils are different. A standard coil should work with a CDI, but it's not optimal and might not last long.
The resistor cap and/or plug: Without one, the spark current can bleed off through carbon deposits and/or fuel on the plug, and cause misfires. With the resistor, the current must build up to a higher value, and once it overcomes the resistance value, it is much more likely to jump the spark gap instead of bleeding off. You might remember from your automotive trouble shooting days where a plug wire could be hooked up, but the cylinder be dead. But when you pull the plug wure loose and let it SPARK to the plug terminal, then that cylinder would start hitting. Clear sign of a fouled plug on that cylinder. Same principle with the resistor plug cap on a bike. Using resistors also cuts down on radio interference.
Being as how you are super fastidious, like me, I had assumed you had gone all through that stator and all wiring. That's where the problem was with all that corrosion!!
Remember how I explained about the "advance" system on a CDI? Well, the way the little "computer" in the CDI box knows when to quit retarding the timing is by counting pulses coming from the stator. (Pulse coil) When the pulses are very low, like when kick starting or at idle, it keeps the timing full retarded. As the pulses climb because the throttle is opened, it takes out the retard. (Thus "advancing" the timing.) With your gummed up stator assembly, the CDI was not getting good pulse information, and not advancing properly. Voltage to the CDI may have been low as well. Certainly, that's where the problem was.
It sounds GREAT, and CONGRATULATIONS!! Your muffler is a work of art too.
One thing Dale... may I ask why you were so adamantly against throwing a timing light on the bike? Many, many, of us tuners use lights on the bikes now. I, for one, do NOT trust those factory timing marks and have found many of them to NOT be correct/when the CDI is firing.
Congrats again--> jetting sounds fairly close too!
Robert
Thanks Robert I sure appreciate all the help, however a little overwhelming. Like I said in the video, I have always looked at the cdi systems as it works or it don't, it was kind of black magic, and I just did not want to disturb anything. I tried to just bolt it on, well it didn't work. I know better next time. I did perform all the ohm's checks when I fabricated the stator plate, and all readings were within range. So, I guess that is why I didn't pursue it further. As far as a timing light goes.... I have worked on hundreds of these over the years and have never seen one that wouldn't at least run normal on the factory marks. So, I knew it wasn't revving by the sound, why would I need to visually see it. I am not a "Tuner" just an old motorcycle mechanic. I'm sure that using a light would show a better timing event, but not necessary for a guy just having fun. I do use timing lights on 12-volt point systems, but just never worried about it on a bike like this. In this case it wouldn't have shown me anything I didn't already know. I think it is a bit rich, but nothing I can do about it with a foot of snow on the ground. So that will have to wait till the weather breaks in the spring. Still thinking about painting it Brillant Red. Again, thanks for the help and for spending time in the shop with me.
Ok, this will be my last reply on this one, just because I think we're still misunderstanding each other.
When you set the timing on a points bike, using either a test light, buzz box, or feeler gauge, it is just a physical law that the spark will occur at that time. NOTHING can change that. It's just an absolute fact.
HOWEVER, this is NOT true with CDI. The reason is that the CDI CHANGES the spark timing electronically. You set the timing where the factory tells you to. Then the CDI itself moves the timing around. You have no way of knowing when it is really sparking because through the magic of electronics it literally changes the timing itself!!
Virtually the ONLY way to tell when the CDI system is sparking is with an automotive timing light. (Not a test light--> a regular automotive, pistol style timing light,)
An automotive timing light, which is triggered by the true, actual spark pulse, will tell you when the CDI has "decided" to fire the plug.
In your case, it would have shown it was firing at the wrong time, and have pointed us to the stator and/or pulse coil as the most likely culprit.
Anyway, YAAY, it's running, and YES!! --> RED!! That'll be great!
;~)
Take care and stay warm,
Robert
Robert, I understand completely, I was saying that I have never seen one that would not at least start and run on the factory marks, except this one. Yes, I get that the timing light will show when it is firing. My point was, I already knew it wasn't advancing, there was just no point to validate it with visual aids, i.e., the timing light. There is no way to change the operation without changing parts, or finding a problem, i.e., corrosion, wiring or whatever. Since I had already advanced the stator with almost no improvement. I understand that the timing light NOW will be the best way to ensure the correct timing, now that it is running correctly. But during the diagnostic process, I didn't need to validate what I already knew. I knew there was either a problem with some part, or a mismatch component. Before I installed these parts each was checked with an ohm meter and found with in factory specs. So, the only way besides spending more money on parts that may or may not help or work. I just started going and melting off terminal insulation and removing the pulser coil, till I found common issues that can affect all sorts of electronics. Sorry to be such a reluctant student, but my mind was telling me that the timing light would not show me anything that I already knew, UNTIL the engine was at least running somewhat correctly. I do appreciate your help immensely, us old guys already have a mindset from years of troubleshooting, and it is hard to make changes to established thinking and patterns.
Ok, gotcha. I understand.
Speaking of "Old man--Stubborn ways" guilty as charged here! In my many years of trouble shooting I too have thought "If a man built it- then I can figure it out/fix it."
My stubborn old man philosophy though, has always been to very precisely understand exactly how an item works, and exactly what it is doing, before I trouble shoot the problem. In other words, what exact process is supposed to happen, and what part of that process is breaking down? This not only leads me to the exact defective area or part, it is also very satisfying and educational to fully understand some complicated piece. Using this process, I've repaired countless things that others had given up for lost.
My father, a mechanics instructor in the military, often said, "There's true MECHANICS, that actually understand how things work, then there's PARTS REPLACERS." I decided I would be a "Mechanic".
So, sorry about being so "pushy" with all my info.
I would have needed to determine exactly what was going on. The stator's job is to supply the power. The trigger coil the pulses for timing. Using a timing light to figure out when it was firing would have been the first part of digging into and troubleshooting that stator/trigger coil setup for me.
Anyway, hopefully we all learned something, but one thing's for sure--> Dale's amazing!
Robert
I dont find the non resistor style plugs much anymore, although i dont notice a difference with points style. The bike sounds so good
Thank you, yes NGK is just not making them anymore, I am slowly moving to Autolite plugs non-resistor, the big thing is you don't want to use a resistor cap withe the resistor plugs. Just think that is too much. May run ok, but I think it will be better to leave at least one of those resistors in the trash can. Thanks for joining me on this project.
Smokin👍🏻
Roger that, smoking, running, and a little quieter. I'm happy.
geez! back row with a tall guy setting in front, its ok i can still see somewhat. LOL Hi, Dale, Monday 4:51am
Always something, waffles or nachos?
Wow, that's exactly my philosophy. If someone can build it then I can unbuild it & rebuild it again
Ain't that the truth, was beginning to think it wasn't going to happen with this one. If nothing else, I made my peace with it. Thanks for following along.
Success, bet you had a few sleepless nights thinking about the bike.
Yep, lots of reading, RUclips, and thinking. What else is an old, retired motorcycle racer to do.
@@montana2strokeracer believe me, never stop working on the old bikes,as you get older it might get harder, but keeping the mind active will add years to your life. sedintary retirement is a disaster.
I have the same bike . How much was the kit for that and is it still available
Hi, it's not a kit, I did a complete playlist on this conversion.
ruclips.net/p/PLQyl8BUThyaKwnivQkRAQLh5HBsK4Aki4
What year bike did that cdi come off ?
I went over the whole process and talked about the parts in the playlist I left below. There are a couple different ways to do this. The easiest is to find a 74 or 75 Yamaha YZ125 and get all the CDI parts. You still have to make a stator backing plate because the YZ backing plate is 120 mm and you need 130mm for the older bikes. The other is to get all the parts from a 73 or 74 250 or 360 MX but with this one you will still have to find a 125YZ rotor for a 74 or 75 model. The 250/360 have 130mm backing plate but it will not mount up, so you still have to make the backing plate. The wiring can all be used as is on the 250/360 but on the YZ 125 you have to rewire the stator a little but it's not a big deal. Thanks for watching, and good luck with your conversion.
I'd ride that!
Well thank you, I intend to when the snow melts. Right now.... I will settle for the sound and the smell of the bean oil. Thanks buddy
Here 6 am
OK Cain, where's the waffles?