Yeah. Drew tends to turn back to large generalized concepts, that are used to rally people behind (or historically written as it was the reason for people to rally behind at). What is the Portuguese empire? Well, it consists out of many private lands, sometimes handed out by the crown or even private companies that colonized stretches of land, that recognized and sought protection under the Portuguese crown. They formed their own localized government forms, that legally where bound to a larger entity. And that legal status could change after a war, but again defined under legally recognized treaties, that can go very nitty-gritty irrigard to taxation, protection, ownership etc, sometimes defined over multiple competing political entities. For fun, read up on the Duchy of Limburg and the Treaty of London (1866).
The tribal argument is a really good one! People are social creatures and social groups need leadership to not fall into chaos. The difference was that in the past people identified more with their city/town/village/region than country and they were basically their own societies. The only thing that changed is the scale, from one place to a whole country.
I think this begs the question if in the future people are gonna identify by a continent level scale, and then even further in the future, gonna do it on a planetary scale
@@lawden210 If we become a spacefaring civilization that colonise new planets then yes, people are 100% gonna identify by their home planets in the future. But that's a pretty big if.
The idea of a 'nation' is SUPER old. In the Book of Acts from the Bible, Paul used his Roman citizenship that he had from birth to avoid being whipped/beaten by the Roman guards who captured him in Jerusalem after the Jewish leaders stirred up the people against Paul which caused a riot. Even further back in the Bible, the nation of Israel was split in two (Israel and Judah) during the reign of Solomon's son.
The word is old, but the idea isnt. The idea and with that the meaning of the word changed over time. The modern idea of Nation only came about in the time of nationalism.
Exactly Harris is very obviously biased towards nationalism, "loving France=bad/ Loving EU = Great" what's the logic LOL As drew said countries are like Highschool teams you gave all the right to find pride in them and wanting them to be fine
I’m 90% certain he has said unironically that he is dyslexic. It’s a common thing for him to sometimes just read some words and phrases as something seemingly unrelated but when you compare it, you can somewhat visualize how that could be jumbled to look kind of like the physical outline of both phrases.
I legitimately like drews commentary here it's like a conversation I would have with someone over the video and his questions and observations are well put.
The modern Westphalian nation state system is pretty new relatively, but the idea of organizing people based on something like family clans, for example, is something much older. But kingdoms and empires were did consist of multiple ethnic groups.
I think the best way to describe the idea of a nation is not new, but evolved. like Drew said, the idea of smth similar to a nation has existed for millennia. from Greek city-states to Rome to Napoleonic France, the idea of a nation has not always been the same, but it has in some form or another, (almost) always been here
Napoleonic France invented nationalism. Discovering nationalism was like discovering gunpowder. It's what allowed Napoleon to almost conquer Europe. And everybody else adopted it, like adopting a new weapon.
@@laughing0hyenawhat period are you talking about? There was a Greek idea going back to the city state era. There were multiple Greek polities but they had a sense of Greekness.
Harris' video boils down to people use the word "Nation" in terms of international politics when they should use "State". It's the same as a linguist breaking down Alanis Morrisette's song "Ironic" and how nothing in the song is actually by definition ironic.
She went to the same high school as me. I heard from an older Canadian that people got annoyed at how many times they played her version of O, Canada, lol.
I love how Jonny likes to say things like “_____ is actually just made up by people” as if 100% of society, culture, and human behavior is by definition completely made up by people. I feel like everyone had a kid like that in their high school class. But he’s a grown man making the video essays for millions of people.
They are remnants of the Celts who should have had this feeling that they are all one nation and yet they’re not all part of the same country which proves the point that nations are made up concepts. The Irish developed their own nation, the Scottish their own, Welsh, Breton and Cornish people have their own identities.
"Nations aren't real because some people in nations share stuff in common with neighboring nations. Nations were invented by France, ignore all other previous differences between people across the planet." --intellectual huffing his own farts
Let me clear something up. The French Revolution WAS the first nationalist movement. At least when we think of modern day nationalism. Look it up. And during the time of empire, when the flag of Spain or France was placed on foreign land, it wasn’t for the NATION it was for the CROWN
The "idea" of Norway isn't from 1814 lol, Norway became a country in 872. It just tried to get its independence from Denmark in 1814, then being invaded by Sweden, and finally getting its independence from *them* in 1905. So he isn't really using great examples, even with his cherrypicking
This is a lot of issues with others doing history on Scandinavia. They seem to only consider the countries to be countries since the last separation from a union or annexation. So United Kingdom was formed in 2020 since it left the EU I guess. A lot of history is ignored.
Johnny Harris has an incredible way of making simple topics as mind numbingly hard to understand. While somehow seeming pretentious and that he has no clue what he's talking about.
33:45 That how many nationalities were created, a long time ago before Napoleonic France. How did Serbia, Czechia, Hungary, Bulgaria etc. survive without having countries for hundreds of years? How did their tradition and language survive? People bond together under opression to defend themselfs and their group.
And they wrote it down and persevered it, it's civilizations that lays the foundation of a language, writing and the community that surrounds it and influences others to do the same or change it a bit.
The concept of nationalities is as it was said in the video by Jonny Harris, in nowadays Czechia the Czech people lived, the bulgars in nowadays Bulgaria. These were people speaking a distinct language and having their cultural heritage and customs. There was not a national identity before the 1800s. And these people lived in their country since they settled there despite being ruled by foreign monarchs in the older days. The myth of having an older national identity was created during the time of nationalism. If there were an older national identity, there wouldn’t be so many Slavic languages f.i. All Slavic people would speak one language, because of their national identity . The names of the months in Czech are artificial words created in the 19th century out of the movement of nationalism (fascinating btw).
@@timbucktu5141 I feel like I have to clarify this but your claim that slavic nations did not speak the same language is not entirely true for the most part. During the medieval age, the majority of slavic kingdoms (the nobility at least) spoke old church slavonic, aka old bulgarian.
There are countless examples of national identity older than Napoleonic France. Czechia at that time, Bohemia, got its national identity during Hussite wars in the 15th century. Greeks united against Persians, as Drew said in the video. Etc. I don't know about Harris, some of his videos are decent, others are just pure trash.
It seems that he rushed this video and only looked at a few examples, he could have talked about other states with having problems being a nation like Belgium, Yugoslavia, Ukraine, even the UK by a long stretch if you want to take it this far.
Also I don’t think a lot of people realize what we call French, Italian, Filipino etc are just dialects that the government at the time choose to make the official national language. That instead of all these dialects being co-equal the government choose one to be raised raised above the others.
Also the old testament calls the Israelites "עם ישראל" which means the nation of Israel it also calls other group as the nation of ... and it is not the only religious that does that
Thank you, Drew! I appreciate the dialogue you created for this video. Harris can't go unchecked with his videos like anybody else. He makes cool videos, but everybody needs a check
Not really, I'd say that the US is more of a nation than the Amer-Indian tribes when the Pilgrims came over. It is ridiculous to say that when you have 1776 to point to as the beginning of the US.
I'm tunisian. Our sense of national identity didn't really exist until the late 1700s or early 1800s when we began to resist the Ottoman rule of the Eyalet-i Tunis, but even then, it was that we were still many berber and arab tribes uniting in our oposition to taxation, speaking about 4 or 5 dialects, with no homogenity. The closest thing to our current identity at the time was the identity of those in the city of Tunis itself. The true homogenising of tunisia happened as a result of french colonial rule, with the dialect spoken in the city of Tunis being pushed as the main arabic dialect alongside french, and this oppression by the french led to our tribes coming together, sharing our mutual struggle and working together, which paved the way for our design as our own nation.
I'd say that the concept of what we think of as countries has evolved. But countries aren't really a formal concept, there are nations and states, some nations can also be states, thus nation-states.
12:20 AkshuaAlLY 🤓 the Jacobins didn't just unalive the king 🤴💀 they unalived a bunch of poor peasant farmers 👨🏼🌾 in the countryside who supported the church ⛪ & the king ....which is usually ignored in the retelling of the French Revolution 🇫🇷
4:45 Ireland and Scotland be like: Also if countries don’t exist, then do homes exist?They are just a cluster of a family name which is unsubstantiated cos it’s a name? Edit: also can’t wait till we become an interstellar species and declare how “planets are a very recent phenomenon” in the year 3000 and how the idea of being a Martian or Earthling is a lie.
I hate the title of the video. Countries are artificial, but very much a legal defined and protected entity. Just like private ownership like a home is, and the freedoms, responsibilities and obligations that comes from owning private property within a country as defined by national law.
Nations doesn’t exist, countries exist. Nation is concept of the mind, a country is a physical body of land. There are people in Indonesia living only on boats, which are the only one without land. Yes they go on land of other people and sell their fish and whatever. Despite being named as a tribe with a distinct culture and language are they a nation, nowadays all tribes are called nation as well, maybe because of their concept of living?
5:20 no, those are different languages. He's speaking about how historically those were different languages that have been gradually erased by the French "empire" state.
@@funghi2606 there are divisions (look at Padania and Sardina) but we are still Italians. I'm a proud Livornese and Toscan, but I'm also Italian and European. One can belong to different thinks at the same time and fill them as equals. And we argue between us for centuries after the Romans but: - we where always devided by some other kingdom for their interest. - we still arguing using a similar language and believing in mostly the same ideals. For the tribalism argument let me say just on thing: Pisa Merda 👍🇱🇻
As a European, I love how Johnny Harris says that a European identity doesn't cause exclusion, because recently there is more and more discussion about what the "European Values" are, and that people who don't hold those values don't belong in Europe. Yes, we have multiple languages and ethnicities, and we're quite welcoming to people even from outside of Europe as long as they adopt our values, but of the 27 EU member states, not a single one hasn't turned against those people who don't hold those values, because they still "ruin our culture".
I think this video needs to have a distinction between a country and a nation. Countries are a really old concept but the nation-state is extremely modern as they accurately discussed
What about small island nations? They probably allways had some sense of "nationalism" with other island fellows, spoke same language, held same customs etc...
Johnny Harris is a very talented story teller and editor. Watch him for entertainment and some general information. But he writes a strong narrative swinging in opinion as a priority rather than for funding factual information.
Drew, but the US... It wasn't "a nation" as we think of it, it was british who didn't want to be part of great britain. They still considered themselves part of the same people, just not subject to the crown, they were the same people, but in new lands, and out of the crown's control. When did this image change and the people started to think "No, I'm actually American" EDIT: P.S. it was before the second world war obivously, but how much before?
France is not the best example. I think that Czechia is a much better example, as a form of pride/patriotism/nationalism began during and after the Hussite wars.
21:26 we were (and still are) easily defined though. It’s very meaningless. There is a constitution and a treaty separating us from the United Kingdom, and the expansion was derived from the same settlers. In fact you could argue that all the new world countries are the only ones which make logical sense as they have jus soli which is right of soil aka right of birth. Europe, Asia and Africa is unique in the sense that they refer to ancient history to build national figures; Boudicca would be a complete foreigner to Britain, but that doesn’t stop her from being seen as some kind of British icon. Harris is right in the claim that trains linked everyone together for the first time so closely, in that Britain even had to establish timezones to actually have the time make sense
Another older example is the 7united provinces (the Netherlands) they fought for independence from Habsburg Spain driven mainly by religious reasons but the cultural reasons dus some kind of nationalism and when independence was achieved they formed an “Dutch” identity while first being all different cultural identities
I agree with some of what he's saying, but he's presenting it really badly and seems to confuse a lot of terms. he never really defines what he means by country and confuses ethnic people for having the same DNA which is not universally true of hardly any ethnic people. it's it's. there's something there but it's badly presented
Well, the conquistadors didn't need to be spaniards, they were just a bunch of men who were assigned by the spanish empire or emperor, such as colombus was genoese, ehinger was from ulm etc. and the pirates of the ottomans were generally from algiers, even some of them from sardinia, naples and even from the low countries. The emperors just paid some people for conquering or battling for you and they did.
16:25 actually that's exactly proves that he is right. The people who were rulled by those empires didn't care who was their ruler, and just kept their life the same.
Can you provide an example to support that statement? And do you think that this concept is representative of or applicable to everywhere in the world at that time?
I think an important point that Johnny implies but doesn't explicitly say is that while nations, in sense, have always existed, they recently became a more integral part of everyday people's identities. To Alexander the great he was forging an empire but a random Athenian was just an Athenian, he didn't even know he was a part of the largest empire on earth at the time.
Empires aren't nations. That's why they fall apart. Nationalism was created in revolutionary France. It revolutionized warfare as much as the invention of guns and cannons. Napoleon almost conquered all of Europe. France was the first nation to ever implement mass conscription. To mobilize an entire nation for war, to have young men sign up to fight and die for almost no pay for their "nation".
The issue with statements that countries are not real is that then nothing is real. It's like saying something is a made up word. All words are made up. You can start saying how this isn't actually real because thousands of years ago we called it this and it was done differently. It's a dumb argument that people do for clicks.
Yeah i agree, humans are social creatures and yet some are still suprised by "social construct" as if they discovered that we were living in the Matrix...
I think a better way to put it for the Feudal nations is that the Crown of France, or the Crown of England was a concept tied to land, but they as nations didnt really rise until you saw figures like Bolivar and Napoleon, then you had the Nation of France and the Nation of Spain
For the US, it seems to me that at the beginning there was no powerful American identity, people considered themselves first as English, Dutch or French settlers then as a resident of such collonie and finally as an inhabitant of the 13 collonies. Moreover, I want to prove the importance that the Americans always give to origins (even when they date from 2 century). And I think to be fair it is a little bit the same with all the countries that existed (I differentiate here "country" and "nation"). To take the example of France (it is the easiest for me since I am frannçais), people considered themselves first as part of such a village, then of such Baronniee and/ or Count and/ or Duchy and finally they considered themselves as French. What the revolution started is the beginning of feeling first French and then feeling Toulousain, Parisien, Montpelierain
9:49 Perfect example. If you took 1000 people from china and 1000 people from france and mixed them up in a room, you could sort them no problem, even though some people of chinese origin live in france and some people of french origin live in china.
Even though the modern idea of a "one nation, one language, one peoples"-country starts with the American revolution and Napoleon, it doesn't mean that what came before weren't also countries. Its just that most people before that perceived the idea of a country differently. Most of the things he said about Medieval France that supposedly disqualified it from being a country still apply today in countries like Qatar. 80% of the e population is poor and doesn't care about the nation more than their next paycheck, has a different genetic makeup (Indian), and it's only the tp 20% of rich Arabs who see themselves as part of that country. Does that mean that Qatar is not a country then? No, of course not. All of those things simply don't qualify the place from being a country.
It all depends on who you're "fighting" if its someone in your city you identify by your suburb, if its someone in your country you identify by region, so if its some in another country you identify by country. Even if they were an alien you would identify as being from Earth.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel like the problem with this is they didn't start with separating the concepts of state/government, nation/people and landmass
Yeah. Drew tends to turn back to large generalized concepts, that are used to rally people behind (or historically written as it was the reason for people to rally behind at). What is the Portuguese empire? Well, it consists out of many private lands, sometimes handed out by the crown or even private companies that colonized stretches of land, that recognized and sought protection under the Portuguese crown. They formed their own localized government forms, that legally where bound to a larger entity. And that legal status could change after a war, but again defined under legally recognized treaties, that can go very nitty-gritty irrigard to taxation, protection, ownership etc, sometimes defined over multiple competing political entities. For fun, read up on the Duchy of Limburg and the Treaty of London (1866).
Does nation exist? Proceed to talk only about france
Yeah true
I believe france is a really bad example for this, my homeland hungary is a great counterpoint to what he was saying
@@Zal_TWasTaken there is a lot of good counterpoints
The guy is a moron talking like an intellectual. you're free to ignore him and his opinions.
Because we all know France doesn't exist
Nations are just bigger tribes that have combined together to form a larger tribe and then became more uniform.
This. It's human nature, that guy doesn't understand what he's talking about.
His whole video is just yapping for the sake of a controversial statement that doesnt make sense
The tribal argument is a really good one! People are social creatures and social groups need leadership to not fall into chaos. The difference was that in the past people identified more with their city/town/village/region than country and they were basically their own societies. The only thing that changed is the scale, from one place to a whole country.
I think this begs the question if in the future people are gonna identify by a continent level scale, and then even further in the future, gonna do it on a planetary scale
@@lawden210 If we become a spacefaring civilization that colonise new planets then yes, people are 100% gonna identify by their home planets in the future. But that's a pretty big if.
@@lawden210 I mean, some people already are identifying by a continent. For example Europe vrs the us. But it's mostly just for memes, I guess.
@@giantWariothen the Jonny of that time will be like “planetary identity’s are made up and fake. We must be kind to our fellow Xeno friends”
Which is the same thing as a nation state. You are the literally describing the same thing but it's slightly different ways.
Congratulations to him. He found out that a human invention was in fact a human invention 😂
The CIA has been hiding it from us the whole time!
The idea of a 'nation' is SUPER old. In the Book of Acts from the Bible, Paul used his Roman citizenship that he had from birth to avoid being whipped/beaten by the Roman guards who captured him in Jerusalem after the Jewish leaders stirred up the people against Paul which caused a riot. Even further back in the Bible, the nation of Israel was split in two (Israel and Judah) during the reign of Solomon's son.
Even before the flood there were nations.
Well the flood never happened
I feel like Rome is a very good example of an ancient nation.
The word is old, but the idea isnt. The idea and with that the meaning of the word changed over time. The modern idea of Nation only came about in the time of nationalism.
The concept of tribes, which evolved into nations, predates human history.
Tell me you are idealist internationalist Anarchist without telling me you are idealist internationalist Anarchist:
I thought Johnny Harris was like, an unironic self-identifying neoliberal
@@tylerphuoc2653 He *is* a liberal lol.
it is just the reality on the ground, countries today are more like Roman provinces than actual sovereign entities.
well either that or a medieval historian who would also throw a fit if someone told him modern nations have existed for a long time.
Exactly Harris is very obviously biased towards nationalism,
"loving France=bad/ Loving EU = Great" what's the logic LOL
As drew said countries are like Highschool teams you gave all the right to find pride in them and wanting them to be fine
Drew reading "We the People" and says "White people?"
You might actually be a bit dyslexic
He said in one of his video that he does have a bit of dyslexia and you can also see it in other videos of his, he sometimes has a brain fart so.😅
I’m 90% certain he has said unironically that he is dyslexic. It’s a common thing for him to sometimes just read some words and phrases as something seemingly unrelated but when you compare it, you can somewhat visualize how that could be jumbled to look kind of like the physical outline of both phrases.
Lol yeah
1:18 But it does says white people
I legitimately like drews commentary here it's like a conversation I would have with someone over the video and his questions and observations are well put.
The modern Westphalian nation state system is pretty new relatively, but the idea of organizing people based on something like family clans, for example, is something much older. But kingdoms and empires were did consist of multiple ethnic groups.
".his personal biases seep in..occasionaly he's neutral"
Haha, yeah, that's a glowing endorsment! 😁
"The concept of countries is actually newer than you think." What does this guy consider old, only 3000+ years? 😂
Wow that’s old
No, 1800's
Nationalism is a new concept
newer than you think doesn't mean not old
Doing what your god king says in case you get punished in the afterlife isn't Nationalism.
I think the best way to describe the idea of a nation is not new, but evolved. like Drew said, the idea of smth similar to a nation has existed for millennia. from Greek city-states to Rome to Napoleonic France, the idea of a nation has not always been the same, but it has in some form or another, (almost) always been here
No. Greece was an empire. Before there were nations there were empires. he literally says this in the video.
Napoleonic France invented nationalism. Discovering nationalism was like discovering gunpowder. It's what allowed Napoleon to almost conquer Europe. And everybody else adopted it, like adopting a new weapon.
@@laughing0hyenawhat period are you talking about? There was a Greek idea going back to the city state era. There were multiple Greek polities but they had a sense of Greekness.
Harris' video boils down to people use the word "Nation" in terms of international politics when they should use "State".
It's the same as a linguist breaking down Alanis Morrisette's song "Ironic" and how nothing in the song is actually by definition ironic.
And, funnily enough, the fact that nothing is ironic in the lyrics of song called ironic makes the song itself ironic.
She went to the same high school as me. I heard from an older Canadian that people got annoyed at how many times they played her version of O, Canada, lol.
I love how Jonny likes to say things like “_____ is actually just made up by people” as if 100% of society, culture, and human behavior is by definition completely made up by people.
I feel like everyone had a kid like that in their high school class. But he’s a grown man making the video essays for millions of people.
the red hair map literally matched the borders of scotland, wales, cornwall, ireland and britanny (and the basque country and catalonia) 💀💀💀
They are remnants of the Celts who should have had this feeling that they are all one nation and yet they’re not all part of the same country which proves the point that nations are made up concepts. The Irish developed their own nation, the Scottish their own, Welsh, Breton and Cornish people have their own identities.
"Nations aren't real because some people in nations share stuff in common with neighboring nations. Nations were invented by France, ignore all other previous differences between people across the planet." --intellectual huffing his own farts
Let me clear something up. The French Revolution WAS the first nationalist movement. At least when we think of modern day nationalism. Look it up. And during the time of empire, when the flag of Spain or France was placed on foreign land, it wasn’t for the NATION it was for the CROWN
But didn't the Crown represent the nation?
@ no it represents the imperial family
@@saqualiousfinglenut5426 Doesn't the Imperial family represent the nation?
@ imperial families are crowned by the church, not the “nation” Do you seriously think the people crown the imperial family ?
@saqualiousfinglenut5426 Doesn't the church, supposedly, legitimate the Crown's rule over the people/land/nation/country/kingdom/empire?
The "idea" of Norway isn't from 1814 lol, Norway became a country in 872. It just tried to get its independence from Denmark in 1814, then being invaded by Sweden, and finally getting its independence from *them* in 1905. So he isn't really using great examples, even with his cherrypicking
This is a lot of issues with others doing history on Scandinavia. They seem to only consider the countries to be countries since the last separation from a union or annexation. So United Kingdom was formed in 2020 since it left the EU I guess. A lot of history is ignored.
@@Liggliluff Absolutely!
Johnny Harris has an incredible way of making simple topics as mind numbingly hard to understand.
While somehow seeming pretentious and that he has no clue what he's talking about.
33:45 That how many nationalities were created, a long time ago before Napoleonic France. How did Serbia, Czechia, Hungary, Bulgaria etc. survive without having countries for hundreds of years? How did their tradition and language survive? People bond together under opression to defend themselfs and their group.
And they wrote it down and persevered it, it's civilizations that lays the foundation of a language, writing and the community that surrounds it and influences others to do the same or change it a bit.
The concept of nationalities is as it was said in the video by Jonny Harris, in nowadays Czechia the Czech people lived, the bulgars in nowadays Bulgaria. These were people speaking a distinct language and having their cultural heritage and customs. There was not a national identity before the 1800s. And these people lived in their country since they settled there despite being ruled by foreign monarchs in the older days. The myth of having an older national identity was created during the time of nationalism. If there were an older national identity, there wouldn’t be so many Slavic languages f.i. All Slavic people would speak one language, because of their national identity . The names of the months in Czech are artificial words created in the 19th century out of the movement of nationalism (fascinating btw).
@@timbucktu5141 I feel like I have to clarify this but your claim that slavic nations did not speak the same language is not entirely true for the most part. During the medieval age, the majority of slavic kingdoms (the nobility at least) spoke old church slavonic, aka old bulgarian.
the whole video seems to be constructing an argument backwards
(8:20) Countries are not all unified and not everyone will fight for their country
There are countless examples of national identity older than Napoleonic France. Czechia at that time, Bohemia, got its national identity during Hussite wars in the 15th century. Greeks united against Persians, as Drew said in the video. Etc. I don't know about Harris, some of his videos are decent, others are just pure trash.
It seems that he rushed this video and only looked at a few examples, he could have talked about other states with having problems being a nation like Belgium, Yugoslavia, Ukraine, even the UK by a long stretch if you want to take it this far.
Also I don’t think a lot of people realize what we call French, Italian, Filipino etc are just dialects that the government at the time choose to make the official national language. That instead of all these dialects being co-equal the government choose one to be raised raised above the others.
Also the old testament calls the Israelites "עם ישראל" which means the nation of Israel it also calls other group as the nation of ... and it is not the only religious that does that
@ Yeah I’m pretty sure that -stan sufix on country names comes from Hindi and just means the country of.
Uhhh! Jonny Harris, enough said. Did longest fence in the world vid, a 4ft high wire, and said it effects the weather/climate. Total goose
Petition for Drew to visit Romania (day 385)
signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
why are you using chads flag
Make a Sealand plushie
What is Sealand
It’s the world’s most tiniest country it’s a oil rig
Thank you, Drew! I appreciate the dialogue you created for this video. Harris can't go unchecked with his videos like anybody else. He makes cool videos, but everybody needs a check
Imagine you died for your country and than these dudes come around centurys later and say it never existed. What a disgrace.
Whole video has me looking like a curious dog...glad drew was affirming my disagreement
Napoleon was not the first
he forgot the Girl
Jeanne d´Arc or in english Joan of Arc
12:40 USA wouldn't become a nation until end of civil war, and early US resembled more of royal France, bunch of communities somewhat tied together
Not really, I'd say that the US is more of a nation than the Amer-Indian tribes when the Pilgrims came over. It is ridiculous to say that when you have 1776 to point to as the beginning of the US.
I'm tunisian. Our sense of national identity didn't really exist until the late 1700s or early 1800s when we began to resist the Ottoman rule of the Eyalet-i Tunis, but even then, it was that we were still many berber and arab tribes uniting in our oposition to taxation, speaking about 4 or 5 dialects, with no homogenity. The closest thing to our current identity at the time was the identity of those in the city of Tunis itself. The true homogenising of tunisia happened as a result of french colonial rule, with the dialect spoken in the city of Tunis being pushed as the main arabic dialect alongside french, and this oppression by the french led to our tribes coming together, sharing our mutual struggle and working together, which paved the way for our design as our own nation.
I'd say that the concept of what we think of as countries has evolved. But countries aren't really a formal concept, there are nations and states, some nations can also be states, thus nation-states.
Don't tell Johnny about England and Scotland
Yes stay quiet
Yeah I was just thinking about Scotland
Scotland isnt real. It cant hurt harris 👀
12:20 AkshuaAlLY 🤓 the Jacobins didn't just unalive the king 🤴💀 they unalived a bunch of poor peasant farmers 👨🏼🌾 in the countryside who supported the church ⛪ & the king ....which is usually ignored in the retelling of the French Revolution 🇫🇷
Any happening like that in a revolution should be a massive ink stain on their record, not sweeped under the rug. But it's currently the former
4:45 Ireland and Scotland be like:
Also if countries don’t exist, then do homes exist?They are just a cluster of a family name which is unsubstantiated cos it’s a name?
Edit: also can’t wait till we become an interstellar species and declare how “planets are a very recent phenomenon” in the year 3000 and how the idea of being a Martian or Earthling is a lie.
I hate the title of the video. Countries are artificial, but very much a legal defined and protected entity. Just like private ownership like a home is, and the freedoms, responsibilities and obligations that comes from owning private property within a country as defined by national law.
@@Tuning3434privacy isn't even an explicitly mentioned constitutional right, but the vast majority of legal scholars know it to be so regardless
Nations doesn’t exist, countries exist. Nation is concept of the mind, a country is a physical body of land. There are people in Indonesia living only on boats, which are the only one without land. Yes they go on land of other people and sell their fish and whatever. Despite being named as a tribe with a distinct culture and language are they a nation, nowadays all tribes are called nation as well, maybe because of their concept of living?
5:20 no, those are different languages. He's speaking about how historically those were different languages that have been gradually erased by the French "empire" state.
To be fair everything is real because we believe in it and follow it. But it doesn't really matter
I call bull on the 1950 Italy thing
Kind off, a little bit exaggerated, but there are divisions to this day
@@funghi2606 there are divisions (look at Padania and Sardina) but we are still Italians.
I'm a proud Livornese and Toscan, but I'm also Italian and European.
One can belong to different thinks at the same time and fill them as equals.
And we argue between us for centuries after the Romans but:
- we where always devided by some other kingdom for their interest.
- we still arguing using a similar language and believing in mostly the same ideals.
For the tribalism argument let me say just on thing: Pisa Merda 👍🇱🇻
As a European, I love how Johnny Harris says that a European identity doesn't cause exclusion, because recently there is more and more discussion about what the "European Values" are, and that people who don't hold those values don't belong in Europe. Yes, we have multiple languages and ethnicities, and we're quite welcoming to people even from outside of Europe as long as they adopt our values, but of the 27 EU member states, not a single one hasn't turned against those people who don't hold those values, because they still "ruin our culture".
I think this video needs to have a distinction between a country and a nation. Countries are a really old concept but the nation-state is extremely modern as they accurately discussed
I thought he was wilding when he started to talk about monkeys fighting in Africa, bro had a Freezer moment
This is mixing nations and nation States. They're not the same.
What about small island nations? They probably allways had some sense of "nationalism" with other island fellows, spoke same language, held same customs etc...
Johnny Harris is a very talented story teller and editor. Watch him for entertainment and some general information.
But he writes a strong narrative swinging in opinion as a priority rather than for funding factual information.
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Drew, but the US... It wasn't "a nation" as we think of it, it was british who didn't want to be part of great britain. They still considered themselves part of the same people, just not subject to the crown, they were the same people, but in new lands, and out of the crown's control. When did this image change and the people started to think "No, I'm actually American"
EDIT: P.S. it was before the second world war obivously, but how much before?
From what I heard it was around the war of 1812 when the American identity really began to form
France is not the best example. I think that Czechia is a much better example, as a form of pride/patriotism/nationalism began during and after the Hussite wars.
The Netherlands would also been a better example since it shipped in full with much of the stuff we associate with modern nations
Those guys were talking crazy
In my opinion, it all simply and broadly comes down to ownership.
I think most social issues if you dive REALLY deep can just be summarised by greed or at least different aspects of it depending on the topic
21:26 we were (and still are) easily defined though. It’s very meaningless. There is a constitution and a treaty separating us from the United Kingdom, and the expansion was derived from the same settlers.
In fact you could argue that all the new world countries are the only ones which make logical sense as they have jus soli which is right of soil aka right of birth.
Europe, Asia and Africa is unique in the sense that they refer to ancient history to build national figures; Boudicca would be a complete foreigner to Britain, but that doesn’t stop her from being seen as some kind of British icon. Harris is right in the claim that trains linked everyone together for the first time so closely, in that Britain even had to establish timezones to actually have the time make sense
We got drew durnil reacting to Johnny Harris reacting to countries are not real before gta 6
Shout-out to Drew for watching that nonsense video until the end 😂
He idea that the concep of nations is a dividing factor is disproven by he when he mentions Italy and Germany
Another older example is the 7united provinces (the Netherlands) they fought for independence from Habsburg Spain driven mainly by religious reasons but the cultural reasons dus some kind of nationalism and when independence was achieved they formed an “Dutch” identity while first being all different cultural identities
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That's what Drew watched I guess xD
(30:30) Absolutely, there's definitely no hatred on people for having the wrong background or anyone told to go home to their country in the US.
The plushies finally moved
I agree with some of what he's saying, but he's presenting it really badly and seems to confuse a lot of terms. he never really defines what he means by country and confuses ethnic people for having the same DNA which is not universally true of hardly any ethnic people. it's it's. there's something there but it's badly presented
Gotta agree with Drew on this, their arguments are flawed in many ways.
Johnny Harris was quite biased and the video didn't really show the whole picture, Drew's comments was totally right
I mean the Mandate of Heaven was an important concept in Chinese civilisation that the peasant folk were interested in
That was more of a religious thing, not something to do with Nationalism.
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Well, the conquistadors didn't need to be spaniards, they were just a bunch of men who were assigned by the spanish empire or emperor, such as colombus was genoese, ehinger was from ulm etc. and the pirates of the ottomans were generally from algiers, even some of them from sardinia, naples and even from the low countries. The emperors just paid some people for conquering or battling for you and they did.
ok so, countries don't exist becouse people in france didn't speak the same dialect of french until over 200 years ago and i don't like change
they are not dialects, they are languages
@@MozartAmadeus-fm5dd sure
16:25 actually that's exactly proves that he is right. The people who were rulled by those empires didn't care who was their ruler, and just kept their life the same.
Can you provide an example to support that statement? And do you think that this concept is representative of or applicable to everywhere in the world at that time?
Jhonny is definitely American for a guy asking "what are countries"
My guy is displaying his knowledge in this video ngl
(7:42) I still cringe when they say kallam-eaters, instead of kilo-metres.
I agree with Drew's idea here. This guy, to me, is reaching for something that wasn't fully spoken out.
I think it would be much more accurate if this argument was used against nation states rather than countries
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i mean countries are as real as money
I don't think Harris understand Europe, or European nationalism. Just look to Scandinavia as a fun research subject.
I could feel the cope coming through my screen
I think an important point that Johnny implies but doesn't explicitly say is that while nations, in sense, have always existed, they recently became a more integral part of everyday people's identities.
To Alexander the great he was forging an empire but a random Athenian was just an Athenian, he didn't even know he was a part of the largest empire on earth at the time.
Empires aren't nations. That's why they fall apart. Nationalism was created in revolutionary France. It revolutionized warfare as much as the invention of guns and cannons. Napoleon almost conquered all of Europe. France was the first nation to ever implement mass conscription. To mobilize an entire nation for war, to have young men sign up to fight and die for almost no pay for their "nation".
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It wasn't about nation it was about protection in exchange for levies and taxes, basically feudalism.
Allocation of resources too.
The issue with statements that countries are not real is that then nothing is real. It's like saying something is a made up word. All words are made up. You can start saying how this isn't actually real because thousands of years ago we called it this and it was done differently. It's a dumb argument that people do for clicks.
It's bad simplification. Originaly term was "imaginary communities", and even author of term knew it s bad, but couldn't come up with better term.
Yeah i agree, humans are social creatures and yet some are still suprised by "social construct" as if they discovered that we were living in the Matrix...
I think a better way to put it for the Feudal nations is that the Crown of France, or the Crown of England was a concept tied to land, but they as nations didnt really rise until you saw figures like Bolivar and Napoleon, then you had the Nation of France and the Nation of Spain
For the US, it seems to me that at the beginning there was no powerful American identity, people considered themselves first as English, Dutch or French settlers then as a resident of such collonie and finally as an inhabitant of the 13 collonies. Moreover, I want to prove the importance that the Americans always give to origins (even when they date from 2 century). And I think to be fair it is a little bit the same with all the countries that existed (I differentiate here "country" and "nation"). To take the example of France (it is the easiest for me since I am frannçais), people considered themselves first as part of such a village, then of such Baronniee and/ or Count and/ or Duchy and finally they considered themselves as French. What the revolution started is the beginning of feeling first French and then feeling Toulousain, Parisien, Montpelierain
Donald Trump: *wins election*
John Harris: well countries ain't real guys!11!!1!
9:49 Perfect example. If you took 1000 people from china and 1000 people from france and mixed them up in a room, you could sort them no problem, even though some people of chinese origin live in france and some people of french origin live in china.
Introduces Napoleon using La Marseillaise when it was really Le chant du départ that was historically correct.
I have been seeing alot about "Sealand" lately and I want to know why this is coming up and what is Sealand bc it isn't a country on a world map
Even though the modern idea of a "one nation, one language, one peoples"-country starts with the American revolution and Napoleon, it doesn't mean that what came before weren't also countries. Its just that most people before that perceived the idea of a country differently.
Most of the things he said about Medieval France that supposedly disqualified it from being a country still apply today in countries like Qatar. 80% of the e population is poor and doesn't care about the nation more than their next paycheck, has a different genetic makeup (Indian), and it's only the tp 20% of rich Arabs who see themselves as part of that country. Does that mean that Qatar is not a country then? No, of course not. All of those things simply don't qualify the place from being a country.
Oooh I was waiting for this!
It's almost like wars of conquest were a thing...
It all depends on who you're "fighting" if its someone in your city you identify by your suburb, if its someone in your country you identify by region, so if its some in another country you identify by country. Even if they were an alien you would identify as being from Earth.
As a American I can agree that talking about America all the time is boring but it’s the best example for some of this
The thing is change takes hundreds of years, so we cannot expect to have it done in 20 years, until someone forces it
Kinda implies America wasn't a unified country till alaska and hawaii joined
The Philippine flag is reversed, if hanged vertically the blue field should be on the left side.
Drew is at war clearly.
A flags upper edge when horizontal should be the left edge when hanging vertically.
can you believe that Nations were not Nations before Nations became Nations? 🤯
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Countries are very real. People are being arrested in England for saying things that are legal to say in the USA.
This is just Andersons imagined communities in RUclips form
if progress is just a dream... then let us dream on until death. - Heneral Luna
Need for long reactions like this