This is not the Skin Tone Line - Color Grading Tutorial
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Whether you're using Premiere Pro, DaVinci Resolve, or Final Cut Pro in scopes they all have a skin tone line for the Vector-scope which may not mean what you think it means.
Download Davinci Resolve for Free: www.blackmagic...
Notes:
This is a controversial topic in color grading and people have differing well founded opinions. The intent of this video is to show the history of this tool and hopefully showcase that while a helpful resource it's not a rule. You skin tone does not have to sit on this line. Under white light conditions with neutral grading it could, but one of the great things about people is we all have our own unique characteristics and this can also come down to skin.
Also if I could fit more words on the Thumbnail without it looking too busy I would say "Stop using this as a rule". It's a great guide for helping you know if you're in the right ballpark especially if you don't have a color accurate monitor. I touch on this at the end of the video.
References:
"Skin Line" Forum Discussion: forums.creativ...
Alexis Van Hurkman Explanation for I-Bar Name: vanhurkman.com/...
Tektronix Guide to using Oscilloscopes as artistic tools: www.tek.com/do...
Learn more about the Vectorscpoe: Pages 2382-2389 of the DaVinci Resolve Reference Manual which can be found in the help tab of Resolve
Underwater Color Grading Tutorial: • Color Grading SKIN TON...
Magic Spell Effect Tutorial: • Harry Potter Style Mag...
Gear I use:
Camera - Black Magic Pocket 4k
Microphone - Rode NTK
Main Lens - Meike 12mm f2.8
Other lenses - Meike 35 mm f1.7, Rokinon 50mm T1.5, Rokinon 24mm T1.5
Tripod - Velbon Videomate 638
Computer Specs:
CPU - Ryzen 1700x
GPU - GTX 1070
Monitor - Eizo CG2420 
Развлечения
Be sure to check out the references on this one. Lots of great information in there and even a free book on working with scopes for color grading. Thanks for the support and we just passed 2k subs 😃
@Mark Crawford oh I really appreciate the offer. I'm actually located in Winnipeg Canada. Regarding showing my setup I'd absolutely be willing to share what I know. That being said, I'm not working on blockbuster films or anything like that. Usually commercials and independent/small budget films, still working my way up and lots more to learn.
Maybe you missed the fact that the skin line is a guide for _natural_ looking skin, i.e. skin under natural light. Surprise - if you are standing in blue light, most things in the frame will be blue.
Did you watch the whole video? That's exactly the point I was making.
@@NathanCarterVids Thank you :) Yes, I did.
Suggestion for title of next video: "This is not white balance!" where you explain the shocking fact that illuminating a white surface with colored light will result in colored light being reflected! ;)
@@realthoprivate I understand where you're coming from and that this information may not be particularly useful to you, however many new users like to learn what they interpret as "rules" and want to adhere to these "rules" because they want to be sure they're doing things "the right way". The objective of this video was to demonstrate that this line was never intended as a rule, and to be comfortable with colored lighting situations.
So true!
My tutor, (an old skill film man), taught me to first get the colors exactly right especially the skin on the skin tone, as humans tend to see faces.
And THEN, stylize it.
I asked him why not go directly nuts in the gamma and skip the whole color balance.
He laughed and said: “you’d never get a consistent look that way, as you never shoot consistently and you want to come of a common place”.
Being an engineer from trade I was like: “yeah, that’s engineering 101, thanks for the refresher course :)”
I completely agree. So much of color work is matching, keeping consistency, and ultimately helping elevate the story. If it distracts a viewer, then you're in trouble.
Weird video which takes a tool meant for color correction and tries to use it with images that are already stylized, totally missing the point. This one explains the line as it should be used: ruclips.net/video/1Xlm4-uM8BQ/видео.html
While this video was great in production quality, it only states the obvious in my opinion. Of course skin won't match up with the line when using stylised, colorful lighting. And of course you don't need to color match your skin to the line - standards are there to be broken to make for visually interesting experiences (think Steven Spielberg and how he changed the "standard movie formula", revolutionizing the movie industry - yea, coloring is less revolutionary, I know :p).
I agree, however the number of times I've had folks insist that a final look needs to have skin on the line I thought it was worth going into the history a bit and breaking down the origins of the line. Proving that it was in fact not designed to show "perfect skin tone" and that it's not a hard rule. Not a bad reference to know you're in the ballpark though.
Colour correction vs colour grading……
I think you're confusing colour grading with colour correction. Either that or you've intentionally been misleading for clickbait. Disappointing for a channel geared at educating filmmakers.
This.
I'm a beginner , self taught since few months, in my views , it is better to depend on the skin tone line while doing colour correction, Once we achieve a base after correcting ,then we can go the look we want and still consider skin tone indicator line to see how far we are pushing the look as graphs speaks better than monitors, please correct if I'm wrong
You making things too complicated. It's just the YIQ color space, with 33 degrees rotation of the YUV.
Ah, blue images should be blue.
excellent video... i think that skin tone line mostly refers to when you've got neutral lighting. Sometimes people adjust their image into a neutral colour state and so no matter what skin colour you are, your pigmentation will always remain the same - blood red which is why that line sits in red zone of your colour wheel... thats my understanding from reading other literature but please feel free to correct me - i am always learning too
cheers
the matrix was shaded in green when they were 'in' the matrix, it was done to tell the viewer when your in and out. oh and yes your video was very click baity, because the line should be used as a great guide to set your skin tones 'before' you apply a grade over your film for style. all good tools to help us with cheap monitors
I completely agree. It's a good reference for most shots as a base. However I've seen many folks online treating it as a rule, so the title (and video) was intended to address that. Also the history of the line is kind of interesting. Thanks for the feedback.
@@NathanCarterVids my sarcasm didnt travel in my message :) i like dry click bait, my comment was tongue in cheek, whilst the matrix explanation of green was true (was in a documentary)
@@MagivaIT ah gotcha. Hard to tell some times.
I think that skin line is mean to 'correct to true colors' and is not meant to be a deciding factor into the art of the final image. The first step in grading it correction. Get things to a balance look. Then we grade it to how we want it to feel.
I would agree to a point, however I've seen a number of new users under the impression then even in an example like the joker shot at the beginning that they need to get his skin on the line for initial balancing, which just isn't helpful for achieving the final look. It's a great guide don't get me wrong, I just wanted to show it's not a rule, and go over some of the history. Thanks for the input I really appreciate it
@@NathanCarterVids If there's one thing I've learnt: Learn the rules, then break them. lol
@@chrisklugh I think you're right on the money with that one.
Awesome and informative video as usual. I kinda feel like I'm taking a master class in resolve over drinks with a buddy when I watch your videos. Kudos kind sir!
Thank you! That is exactly what I'm going for. You just made my day with that comment.
SKIN LINE it's for calibration purposes (white balance + X-Rite/Spyder/MacBeth color checkers charts etc) then creating DCP profiles for DNG etc. not for final delivery (creative/directing choice), so to answer your wonder - this is BASE SKIN LINE
Such an interesting video, thanks. I've watched a few of yours but your camera set-up does make them very hard to look at. Bigger room, eh? 🙂
Ok so it is the skin tone line…
What setting should we turn on so wherever I point the qualifier on I could see it on the scope?
Bit late, but for others maybe: it’s called Display Qualifier Focus in the scopes menu
I think you put a lot of efford in the video but got the main things wrong so I would like to correct something.
1. NTSC has the I line matching the skin tones on purpose. They hoped to at least get skin tones right this way. But they didn't. NTSC = Never the same color.
2. The hue of the skins in the world is usually nearly the same no matter of the skin color. So yes, you can clearly say there is a skin tone line.
3. The skin colors are on the line after the color correction. Then they are changed by creative grading, Luts etc. You can't tell if Trinity's skin tone was on the line after white balancing because a ton of green was poured all over the image later.
4. Monochromatic light like the green book makes everything monochromatic. What a waste of time to wonder about this.
5. Teal is not used that often because of the water look but because of the complementary contrast to skin. What again proves there is a skin tone line.
Misleading video. First of all, everyone has the exact same hue on their skin, regardless what ethnicity. Darker skin registers different luma values, but skin tones are all equal. As an editor you should know that. Also, this video implies the skin tone line is not important. It is essential for white light footage, which will be most of the footage in most situations. Of course if there are color filters or effects hitting the face, such as an actor standing in a room lit by a red bulb, the skin tones wouldn't line up on the skin tone line. I would think that's pretty obvious and doesn't require a video explanation. So what you should really be saying to your viewers is that for fx lighting or weird styles, the skin tone won't line up on the skin tone line. But in most cases it should. It IS the Skin Tone Line.
Out of curiosity did you look at any of the sources I cited in this video? I'm legitimately curious. Literally the guy who literally wrote the book with the first "Skin Tone Line" (Alexis VanHurkman, he called it an I-Bar) has written about this and how it wasn't intended to be a rule for skin tones or anything like that.
I understand that there's a desire to have clearly defined rules, but in the real world things are a little more grey. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool for starting out and if you wanna use it as the end all be all I'm not stopping you. Many people much smarter and more experienced than myself prefer a calibrated monitor and going with what their eyes tell them and using the scopes as a reference, and I'm inclined to agree with that way of working in what I do.
The intent of this video was to give some of the history of where this line comes from, and encourage people to not rely on it for every situation.
@@NathanCarterVids Doesn't matter what it was called originally. The line represents where skin tones should sit. The name changed, but the function is the same. If it wasn't for skin tones originally, what was it for?
@@angelthman1659 I go over its broadcast origin in this very video. I also link to a number of sources that I recommend you check out that provide more information on the topic.
@@NathanCarterVids I couldn't understand the data that well as the scope seems upside down. The i-line is not where the skin tone line is on modern vectorscopes. Either way, if the folks at Final Cut and others think it's a good place for skin tones, and that has been adopted as an industry standard by a consensus of editors and colorists, it's good enough for me.
Skin tone line is for full spectrum of light or put it simple - how skin looks natural under the sun.
If in the dark room you throw a green neon on the face then the face skin becomes green.
This is just stupid to show green tinted Matrix or Blade Runner blue faces and say: look the skin is not on the line! Because both those skin tones are "damaged" and "unnatural" ON PURPOSE for the style and overall mood of the film.
The problem is when people shoot weddings and they get green faced bride in a cyan dress (which must be white).
No joke, I can not find the skin indicator line setting to turn it on in Resolve 17 Studio. Nor anything about how to do so online... everyone seems to have it already there. Help?
What I heard about the skin tone line is that it correlates to the color of human blood, which shows through all skin regardless of the race of the person. So what you are really doing with the skin tone line is aligning the color of the skin in the image to the color of human blood. Can't remember where I read that. But I read it on the internet, so it must be true!
You can’t use the line if the image is already graded ? Most filmmakers would use a flat light to get all information. This also goes with the xrite chart.
Ok Stop! Film & Broadcast are two VERY different things.
Good one - It's funny that you used Dunkirk as an example of skin on the I & Q line - Walter Volpatto the colorist for that movie told me that he doesn't use that reference at all to grade and I showed him a frame from that movie with the scope and he laughed. So are you using a teleprompter for the technical jargon? or just lots of takes?
Nice examples and explanations here - same applies to skin IRE level - I see many people in forums claim they don't want to do much grading, but then state that expose skin to 70% IRE - which will look pretty odd in a low light bar -expsecially when they get up and walk out into the sunlight - Pretty tough making them brighter at that point.
I like your perspective on this stuff - good job
Thanks Jim.
I figured Walter didn't use it as a reference just based on his posts in the forums. As far as the technical jargon goes I basically spent a week wrapping my head around the concepts so I could understand what's going on and then tried to explain it in my own words, no teleprompter (this 7 minute video was a 70 minutes of footage, with the most of it being flubbed words). My science background actually helped here, taking me way back to my university physics classes from 10 years ago. I will note though I had no interest in breaking down the Fourier analysis (the complicated looking equation) and I also called it Quadular at one point. Hopefully it was digestible and gives folks a better understanding of a bit of the history. Also I often hear the 70ire skin thing too, maybe something to cover in the future.
Love the delivery and vibes - subbed!
The skin line is most helpful to set a standard between camera operators and colorists. The camera operators ABSOLUTELY NAIL the vectors between all cameras on set, then the colorists know where the skin was placed on the vector so they know how to manipulate the entire image within the context of what the set looked like. And you are bound by this when painting cameras, but not when lighting scenes and not in post coloring.
I'm relatively new to the Colour Grading scene but I've been a filmmaker for a while and I think that not always adhering to the "Skin Tone Line" is more of a "Know the rules before you break them" situation. Most of the unconventional film grades that you highlighted are perfect examples of the same. Zach Staenberg's team and Jill Bogdanowicz knew the ins and outs of grading skin tones to then grade them differently.
I completely agree, and I know that Walter (Dunkirk) doesn't really use scopes for skin. He uses his eyes and a color accurate monitor and trusts his years of experience to find what looks right. Main goal of the video was to demonstrate that it's okay to deviate from the line, and also go over the history. Thanks for the feedback. Also Jill is a total legend and someone I really look up to in the industry.
@@NathanCarterVids and I completely agree. Not feedback at all Nathan. Was merely adding to your point, is all. Your videos have helped me plenty and I can't wait for the next one.
@@KasbashPlays Awesome. Thanks for the support. This week's video is gonna be a cool one. Super Hero Landing
@@NathanCarterVids Hahaha I'm already trawling through the object removal one. Why is this software free for everything it offers? Also is the full version worth it or would you suggest I practice more before I sink in the cash?
@@KasbashPlays Great question. The free version is incredible. Honestly I think some people turn away from it cause they think there's some catch to it, but it's honestly more full featured than some paid editing software. The biggest things I'd say are the studio OFX (face refinement, film grain, etc), hardware acceleration, and the ability to handle certain codecs (like h265). If the cost is a concern, see if you can build it into your budget for some client work. It's supported for the foreseeable future and I can't imagine the price dropping any time soon, so there's really no bad time to buy.
You expect someone's face, obviously illuminated by fully blue light and visibly NOT pink-ish 'skin tone color' at all to fall on the skin tone vector line?
Do you understand how stylized on set lighting and a vectorscope work?
did you actually watch the video? I go in depth about how this is something you should not expect, and talk about stylized looks
Well this line was totally made to present accurate WB of skin tones..either you are black/yellow or white etc of course if you dnt have crazy lights already setting the mood on the subject.. sometime I just use it when am grading like an interview and my eyes are tired..so i cant trust them..I will just make sure my base nodes for all the people are on these lines before I go for a look where everything can just go crazy and you forget about this line haha. Thanks for the story time though ;)
Thanks for the feedback
*good job sir, can you talk about degree of skin tone?*
NTSC : NEVER THE SAME CLOR :p
(Greetings from PAL-europe)
Haha ain't that the truth.
Man, haven’t heard that from the Commodore Amiga day. Another European reporting. Great channel by the way.
You haven't seen the Joker? Absurd I say! I find the line really helps me to correct the skin first and then I can add a grade if I want. Interesting video.
I've been told it's pretty good just haven't gotten around it it. I think that's a good way to use it for sure, especially just to know if you're in the right ballpark and don't have a color accurate monitor.
I've watched quite a few videos on this top but for some reason, when you presented this info - it clicked. Thanks you! I just hope that when I wake up at 8AM in 5 hours, I haven't forgotten it all. Thank you.
Nevermind :)
Dude, another legit video! Your channel is underrated! Keep it up man
Thank you. More on the way
His head is twisted 45 degrees. Ear drops?
Yes
Why isn't there just a skin tone qulifier?
I don't know how useful that would actually be. I guess you could have a qualifier pre-set for something along the line at a given luminance and saturation, but there's so many variables I feel like most the time you'd just resort to setting a custom qualification.
Thanks Nathan for answering my old question in my mind for very long time. Imagine a man is surrounding trees but do you have to align his skin tone in the line perfectly? I think there must be green cast on his face definitely even if the lighting is very neutral. I was always thinking about it and you gave me a great answer. Keep up the great works! Thanks again.
00:21 How did you do that thing where it shows the range of colors just by hovering over a part of your image?
Display qualifier focus. It's available in the options (three little dots) for scopes. Then whenever you have the qualifier tool selected you'll see that area highlighted in scopes
Exact question I was going to ask lol
Skintone line only works when you are "illuminated" with series D illuminants, actually D65.
Your skintone in this video looks very realistic, and I preffer that look over the "orange face" grading some people do.
Great video!
Thanks!
I am not much into film but we use that line a heck of a lot in live broadcasting.
While it may not the perfect skin tone line, it does help making a consistent image across all cameras in an environment where you don't get weeks to months grading.
Hell, a lot of my shading and calibration is usually done within 15 minutes depending on how many cameras we have on set.
That makes sense. I imagine getting all those cameras to match in a live setting would be impossible without having a constant to compare it to. Thanks for the insight.
Please make video tutorial in how to stabilize and smooth your gimbal footage in davinci ressolve!
Thanks for the input. I'll look into it for sure.
Your content is seriously underrated. Not only do you give great, lesser known tips, you also explain the logic behind them and don't present them as a simple "rule". Since it's never that simple and creative choices come to play.
Great job!
Thank you. I believe understanding how something works will get you further than just knowing how to do it, because you're then better equipped to adapt to situations as they change. I really appreciate the support
@@NathanCarterVids Exactly! And it honestly makes it easier to learn. :D
Nice
Thanks
Awesome!!
Thank you!
The line is a rule! You can break a rule, but only... ONLY if you really really know what you are doing!!!
I like the idea, however if you have a shot like the joker example (or blade runner example is even more extreme) and you don't know what you're doing and try to get it on the line, you're gonna have a bad time.
@@NathanCarterVids that's why context is important
О_О
learn video technology before you upload a video like this!
I'm open to corrections if you feel I got something wrong.
Yeah, you totally need to leave some arguments with a comment like this. What was wrong etc.?