Thank you. I think that the concept of Projective-identification is very relevant to understanding socio-cultural movements, especially much of what is referred to as the "identitarian left" these days when they cast accusations of 'unconscious' bias and 'racism' at people.
Really appreciate this because I've been reading Klein/about Klein lately and every time projective identification came up it seemed like regular old projection and I was getting so baffled that I seemed to be misunderstanding the concept. Explaining how Bion helped to expand the concept was very clarifying; thank you.
Thank you. In your example of Bioninan projective identification, there is a patient behavior that induces the emotion in the analyst. But some contemporary analysts seem to have the idea that the emotion can be induced sans behavior, somehow "unconscious to unconscious" or quasi telepathically, it seems. What do you make of this?
Oh my god Dr Carveth as many others, if you looked into my life & at my platforms where I have documented crimes & facts posted (for many years) about the crimes that result from this behavior oh my god 100% crazy these criminals are!!! Since birth ive been projected upon & crimes committed against me!!
Prof. Carveth, I have watched your video on defense mechanisms and other videos of yours. I would really appreciate if you could please answer my question: If a more or less normally functioning Ego is responsible for reality-testing, then why does it deploys defense mechanisms (especially immature ones) to falsify reality? Doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of reality testing.. Thank you for your informative videos.
But Prof. Carveth isn't the overwhelm a sign of lack of inner/shadow work? Will a healthy ego get overwhelmed as well that it actively indulges in primitive defenses?
What about post-Kleinians? Did they “develop” to refer to PI as interpersonal process, or they keep the separation between intra-psychic One-Body PI and counter-transference?
How can projection be a process of a one-body psychology when the very "body" is part of a systemic environment which first of all makes it possible that something like a projection, which results from the interplay between interpretations of patterns observed in the environment and the thereto belonging emotional-bodily response and the conceptual environment in one's inner psychic organisation? It is merely impossible to project anything when there was nothing dynamic to project it on. This is inherently a logical bias within the argumentation. Projective identification thereby is the successful operation when an external source manipulates your perception about the content of itself. It is a form of intrusion, which only does benefit the one investing into such behaviours, if consciously or not. Because Projective identification is the identification with the aggressor / intrusive force's perceptive angle. Why would one engage in such a pattern? Out of fear for example. The difference between Projection and Projective identification is that one time the intrusion is successful (identification), which goes on the cost of the person's coherence of identity. When you were getting angry about a patient approaching you this very way as described in the example, from a systemic angle, this would mean, that either the patient is right, which makes you angry for you tried to suppress anger for another situation or it is that way that the person is making use of the technique of projective identification, which then generates an anger response since this was an intrusion of your boundaries, which we naturally defend by getting angry when someone tries to push them. It could be as well that the person was serious with the question and was interested about your circumstances, maybe for the person felt a certain tension in your expression - while you then actually projected another intention into this very question, because of your own awareness that you perceive a tension within yourself, which you can't classify (or whatever other option). Logically, there are not any more reasonable options. Meaning, PI is a process that is a systemic phenomenon and can be used within these systemic environments to "exchange" identitarian perspectives in a dysfunctional way, for example for the preservation of a highly dysfunctional system-body, which has only no or a fragmented sense of identity. So, in no case any of both patterns were to classify as one-body process. There are factually not any one-body processes. Greetings, Gandalf
Very clarifying. Thank you!
Excellent. Thanks so much.
Thanks for clarifying this dr. Carveth!
If only you posted more, huge thanks
Thank you so much for this clarification 🙏🌷
Thank you for this amazing simple elaboration 🙏🙏
Wonderful explanation. Thank you.
GOLD
Thank you. I think that the concept of Projective-identification is very relevant to understanding socio-cultural movements, especially much of what is referred to as the "identitarian left" these days when they cast accusations of 'unconscious' bias and 'racism' at people.
Really appreciate this because I've been reading Klein/about Klein lately and every time projective identification came up it seemed like regular old projection and I was getting so baffled that I seemed to be misunderstanding the concept. Explaining how Bion helped to expand the concept was very clarifying; thank you.
Glad I helped
Thank you for these explanations !
This was so helpful. Thank you very much!!!
I'm glad you 're back
Thank u for clarifying. I always thought projective identification was a Kleinian idea.
Thank you!
Thank you. In your example of Bioninan projective identification, there is a patient behavior that induces the emotion in the analyst. But some contemporary analysts seem to have the idea that the emotion can be induced sans behavior, somehow "unconscious to unconscious" or quasi telepathically, it seems. What do you make of this?
I don’t think it’s telepathic because I think it does involve subtle behavior. I don’t think there is emotion without behavior.
Oh my god Dr Carveth as many others, if you looked into my life & at my platforms where I have documented crimes & facts posted (for many years) about the crimes that result from this behavior oh my god 100% crazy these criminals are!!! Since birth ive been projected upon & crimes committed against me!!
Prof. Carveth, I have watched your video on defense mechanisms and other videos of yours. I would really appreciate if you could please answer my question: If a more or less normally functioning Ego is responsible for reality-testing, then why does it deploys defense mechanisms (especially immature ones) to falsify reality? Doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of reality testing.. Thank you for your informative videos.
The ego seeks to test reality, but also to protect itself from reality when reality threatens to overwhelm it.
But Prof. Carveth isn't the overwhelm a sign of lack of inner/shadow work? Will a healthy ego get overwhelmed as well that it actively indulges in primitive defenses?
but there is no such thing as a perfectly healthy ego, we are all impaired to varying degrees
@@doncarveth Many thanks, sir, for answering my questions. Best wishes for your work.
What about post-Kleinians?
Did they “develop” to refer to PI as interpersonal process, or they keep the separation between intra-psychic One-Body PI and counter-transference?
I think post-Kleinmans lost the distinction, many of them, and went with Bion
This is very clear thank you. Where are you recording? It seems a strange venue for teaching
Yes, I had a long time waiting at the gate at the airport and this was on my mind so I went ahead despite the background noise.
@@doncarvethdon I like the new format as well as the old one. Appreciate it
How can projection be a process of a one-body psychology when the very "body" is part of a systemic environment which first of all makes it possible that something like a projection, which results from the interplay between interpretations of patterns observed in the environment and the thereto belonging emotional-bodily response and the conceptual environment in one's inner psychic organisation?
It is merely impossible to project anything when there was nothing dynamic to project it on.
This is inherently a logical bias within the argumentation.
Projective identification thereby is the successful operation when an external source manipulates your perception about the content of itself.
It is a form of intrusion, which only does benefit the one investing into such behaviours, if consciously or not.
Because Projective identification is the identification with the aggressor / intrusive force's perceptive angle.
Why would one engage in such a pattern? Out of fear for example.
The difference between Projection and Projective identification is that one time the intrusion is successful (identification), which goes on the cost of the person's coherence of identity.
When you were getting angry about a patient approaching you this very way as described in the example, from a systemic angle, this would mean, that either the patient is right, which makes you angry for you tried to suppress anger for another situation or it is that way that the person is making use of the technique of projective identification, which then generates an anger response since this was an intrusion of your boundaries, which we naturally defend by getting angry when someone tries to push them.
It could be as well that the person was serious with the question and was interested about your circumstances, maybe for the person felt a certain tension in your expression - while you then actually projected another intention into this very question, because of your own awareness that you perceive a tension within yourself, which you can't classify (or whatever other option).
Logically, there are not any more reasonable options.
Meaning, PI is a process that is a systemic phenomenon and can be used within these systemic environments to "exchange" identitarian perspectives in a dysfunctional way, for example for the preservation of a highly dysfunctional system-body, which has only no or a fragmented sense of identity.
So, in no case any of both patterns were to classify as one-body process. There are factually not any one-body processes.
Greetings,
Gandalf
yikes
Wow
are you in whole foods lol
No, at the gate at Pearson international airport