Thanks for giving us such a thorough review for Starforge! We really appreciate both the kind words and fair criticisms that you have, and will work to address them. We all have a lot of respect for the way you approach things! ... Also, I swear it's a hammer, not a penis!
I fully agree with Linus. As being in almost every position in IT who handled help desk calls at 16, now an "IT Director/CTO" with over 30 years in the corporate world, I quit making PC's for people in a general sense a long time ago except for myself, my daughter, and my immediate family. Anybody who has built computers for those people that are not technically savvy, will land themselves in a nightmare of tech support hell if sold to the wrong person. Let alone the problems if you have to ship it which makes me shudder. The Icing on the cake is if you are just so nice, you keep dealing with the person's computer issue to make you go nuts.
it's not dealing with computer issuses that makes you go nuts, it's dealing with stupidity of some people. Like when you go to check out how PC got too slow (multiple times might i add) only to find 4 antiviruses, loads of useless stuff in autoload and C drive being 98% filled, just because people can't read and don't listen.
I've made 'alright' income by building pcs out of second hand parts for 'as is' systems. But that is a game where you really need to know when not to buy the part, and for the love of all that is holy you really need a second phone number for that one. But, I was selling them via bulletin boards in gas stations and I was very upfront that those were budget systems made from salvaged parts off of ebay and as often as not that there is unconventional parts choices going on. The second hand Quadro market for instance can be a godsend for those types of systems and while they are not optimized for gaming they do tend to do an adequate job of it.
I build computers for my immediate family -- the younger ones are forced to watch and learn how to build and set up the OS. Otherwise, they don't get a PC.
Would be cool to see a secret buyer or tech support video with Star forge to see how they respond to customer inquiries or customer issues experienced with their systems :)
@@Zenchyi well now they can´t do it, but They have tons of people we don´t see on camera, especially since that person would communicate with them over phone and email
I found this video 2 months later. It is pretty well detailed and shows what to look out for. But I would like to see a redo at some point just to see if Starforge improved or not
13:50 If someone from Starforge is reading this. You can get custom colored and labeled 100mil headers and adapters made really really cheap and MOQ is also only around 1000-5000. So I would recommend you make yourself a custom adapter with colors, this way your techs can plug the cables first into the adapter and then they only have to connect one thing to the MB, plus you give your end-user a labeled adapter in case they want to change something later on.
some motherboards even have that included. but what would be even better, if the case manufacturers start using a single block instead of the individual connectors. all motherboards these days have the same layout for the 4 front i/o cables anyways. there is absolutly no need to have seperate connectors.
@@FeuerToifel I like having them separate because I find the drive activity light annoying, particularly if I leave my PC on overnight (in my bedroom). I want the power LED, though, so I just use part of that header
You gave them a pretty fair shake. Asmongold had some pretty big cajones watching your review live on stream. And he owned their mistakes. Overall a win for you and them.
It's easy to own the mistakes when you can blame the people that actually build the PC as opposed to the guy throwing money at it and saying fix this shit.
basically is telling them how to make money for nothing in return to himself. i don't like that since it makes the unfair 'streamers' get more money too.
@@Petah5 in denial about his own for what? his company spends months just making a single product perfecting it idk how that is being in denial about his own?
@@Cyan101 Yes, they did. The model they bought was upgraded to a 3090 on the site for the same price after they had purchased (because GPU prices dropped). So they refunded them the difference in cost of that single component.
was awesome they refunded them, most companies wouldn’t as the market changes so fast but they still did it, could also be because linus purchased the pc and they wanted browny points but I hope that’s not the case and they do stuff like this for all customers
they're just trying to leave a good impression to get started; wait a short while and they won't ever do shit like that (except if they're on camera of course...)
6:03 - I nearly ended my relationship with a phone carrier because the clerk took the clear protectors off the phone for me. Leaving them on is a HUGE PLUS. And it lets me know the parts were new, most likely, on installation.
a phone and a CPU cooler are just different. how u ask? any person who ordered a pc from an SI , is likely not familiar with things inside a pc and probably just want the computer, that makes little to no chance of them opening the case themselves and removing peels from components inside the PC. it's best to just remove them , no sense in leaving the peel on on the components inside
@@yashgupta1724 Leaving them on does nothing to affect the performance. So, in the end it doesn't matter. It should be left on and removed by the consumer. When I buy electronics, I have to remove things before use ALL the time. I just removed 27 pieces of plastic covering from a printer I bought. I didn't build the printer. I just wanted to print things. And yes, some were inside, but the instructions made sure to tell me about them. Reading, it's fckn crazy how it works. If you're too smooth brained to ready a product before its first use, maybe you shouldn't have one.
You’re confusing product security for customer service, only weirdos leave the plastic on the screen of a new phone and now we all know you’re a weirdo. They were doing you a favor
@@UTP_ENT I don't 'leave it on'.... I don't use the phone while the film is still on the phone... I don't know HOW you determined that's what I meant.... >.>
Videos like this are why I started watching Linus when he was as the house that had Whole Room Water-cooling PC. He's willing to let things slide, but is also critical in a way as to be constructive with his feedback, rather than be negative without any suggestions. It means companies that have Linus review their things have a nice little list of things they can improve, if they choose to listen
should've called their customer support to see if they could help you fix the unseated power cables :P good video tho, thanks for covering starforge, was hoping you or GN would do this :)
if you start the pc with cables half unplugged like that there is a decent chance you can break something. I would've 100% tried that if i were linus just to laugh at them more tbh. Idm the LED thing but the power cables? Com'on
3DMark does actually have a pass / fail system... it is the specific "Stress Test" option. It even gives a percentage of reliability. Keep up the good work LTT!
Coming out of college I worked in a tech room 10 years ago building pre-configed computers (mostly home/office and a few gaming pc’s). Things become loose so easy during transit (screws/4-8 pin connectors etc…). The calls I used to receive were just so brutal with so many issues. While I was there the company literally started charging for extended warranties because the scope of calls were getting ridiculous. The company stopped doing pre-builds in the mail about a year after I left. The owner said it just wasn’t worth it. They did however keep custom PCs in their actual store and that business ran strong until 2020 when they closed the doors and just because an eBay/Amazon store.
For those who don't know, GN did a long exposé on AB (artisan builds). They found that the COO was well loved and did a lot of the grunt work and interacting with employees. He eventually went to the AB east division and everything went downhill.
Yeah the mentionning of Artesian Build scared the Heck out of me until I realised who was who coming from it. It's a tough market to be in. I wish the best to everyone buying from them and moreover WORKING for them.
*Everything went downhill because of bad management from CEO. If I remember correctly, this guy was pumping out almost enough to carry the entire company while the CEO was out there killing it.
what's the big difference between this screw driver and this 15 in 1 Klein Tools Ratcheting Screwdriver that I have lived by for the longest? I'd love to know because it was very affordable..
@Bryan Brown he has a half hour video explaining why it took so long and why the high price point its called something like "why it took 3 years", just search on youtube for ltt screwdriver
15:00 Major props to the writers for the framing of this section. It's slight, but the walk from the bin back to the computer while going over this really made it that much more engaging and interesting than if it was just at the computer itself. The callback 'plot' beat of looking for the outer box was a neat touch. It's also just nice to have a walk-n-talk and passively see how to get here-from-there on a non-tour video.
Even so, it's the execution of the shot I'm applauding and complimenting LTT on. The content within that shot is a discussion on its own, for sure but isn't what I was focusing on.
Eh. All it did was make me think how awkward it must be to walk backwards like that and how I would absolutely be standing still doing that segment, lol
@MissingFile. Everyone's in it for the money when it comes to any business or job . You think they started up this business for fun and they weren't in it for the money?
It's clear that your criticisms come from a place of hope and respect, very nice to see. Also, looking forward to see what comes out of the lab's testing with the new CPUs and GPUs coming.
I think I like him also (otherwise wouldn't spend hours watching his videos) but real and straightforward is often subjective. In this case (noticed without deep analysis), DIY build besides time difference didn't price windows license. He is pointing out in videos many times one sided opinions on irrelevant (for many) details, not mentioning important stuff. I don't want to blame or shame him....some of this things is just how people see world differently, some are influenced by business practice also, and it's understandable. My dream is for people to understand that there are no heroes these days and for every honest opinion there is another swayed one. As former computer integrator and business owner I applaud his knowledge, energy, passion and business skills. I disagree on many things with Linus also (Apple, Tesla), but still support him by watching and recently buying his products. Just got a backpack, took it for a bachelor trip (LV baby) and I like it a lot. Still waiting for a screwdriver. Does it mean I will wear boxers with his logo? probably not. Just liked progress updates on developing process, trusted his price/quality/functionality judgment and I am happy. Sorry for venting out...I rarely do it...probably pre-wedding stress :)
@@smartlifesystems When you do a DIY build, you don't ever include the cost of a Windows License because it's not required to run Windows 10.The only reason SIs have to include it is because they can't ship the PC without licensing Windows. It's one of those wacky things. There is absolutely nothing that will stop you from using Windows without activating it though. We rarely activate it on our machines at work and never have any issues. We change those machines so frequently it's just not worth the headache to deal with a license for a testing machine. Basically, it's perfectly fine to price out DIY and compare to an SI without a license key. If you want it to be there, just add ~$115 for a key. You don't need to pay that much for one since Microsoft gives them away for free legally for tons of random reasons, and you can buy them easily for around $15 from a grey market, but if it makes you feel better about the pricing, you can slip it in there.
You always put these 20-ish-minute videos and I think that I probably won't watch the whole thing and might even turn it off after a couple minutes, but I almost always get sucked in and watch the whole thing. That's a sign of a quality video. Good job LMG! Sure, you eat up a lot of my time, lol, but it's enjoyable. I often see people doing long videos to feed the youtube algorithm, but your videos actually seem to be packed with content to where it seems that all the moments of time used were important. Long-time fan (not from the NCIX days though, lol)
it's the same for me and at one point i just started watching stuff at 1.5x unless it's stuff that's based on pacing(music videos, game clips etc). i watched this one at normal speed for the first time and i felt like he was talking too slow lol
Every time I watch an LTT video, I'm blown away by the production quality. I've been watching for years and it's been awesome to watch the progression.
i find a lot of influencers very entertaining but i'm gonna be honest, i don't think i'd ever buy anything nearly as important as a new gaming rig from any of them lmao
A lot of twitch streamers are probably their own tech support, so at the very least they know approximately what they're doing. I don't know if I trust any of them enough to buy a PC from them, but if someone is gonna run a pre-built company, it may as well be twitch streamers
@@armanke13 I don't understand the problem people have with click baiting. I mean, i do, those youtubers who just blatantly lie, those are just not worthy of any attention, but besides that, click baiting is just how things work, its why people such as yourself might click on this video.
@@armanke13 Referring to Starforge as the C&B or the PRCC might be a little bit mean... Or was that just the Twitch chats of all those who have watched the review so far?
Fun Fact: a sponsor of StarForge found out about this video in less than a minute of it being released, and is watching it live on stream right now lol.
One thing I noticed at the end is all of the price comparisons (specifically the differentials) at the end were compared to the price that they purchased the system at and not the price after the adjustments. I think a little bit more praise should have been given for the after purchase price adjustments and the final comparisons should have been made to the adjusted price.
Damn, I gotta hand it to Linus’s production crew…. That shot of Linus rummaging through the literal dumpster was one of the most beautiful scenes on RUclips.
@@danielduncan6806 This is more commentary on the composition of the shot itself rather than commentary on what he was actually doing… I don’t care whether or not he was actually looking for the thing, it was extremely well captured and edited.
This video was actually great feedback and I'm interested to see if starforge then takes it in and works their stuff like they did with the community feedback. You should do this again in 6-8 months, sorta checkup, you know?
@@DutchGuyMike The cynic in me agrees but I try to have some faith in humanity and trust until I've got good reason not to. From everything I've heard they took the good parts (passionate, knowledgeable people) from a failure of a company and are trying to do it better.
Plus, when he said the average customer has no reason to be opening the case, I think he totally forgot that he literally *had* to remove the side panel because there's a couple giant inflatable foam things that have to be removed, so *every* user has to open the case. I could still very much see them missing the peel, but as long as it's not going to potentially cause any problems down the line if it's forgotten I think that's fine.
@@lamikal2515 I don't watch all of his content, but I have seen him be fairly level headed with stuff like this. He actually recognizes the knowledge and wisdom of guys like Linus, and Steve from GN. Hopefully he doesn't make an ass of himself.
Great video! Would have liked to have seen if the PC booted up before the tear down though. Because anyone buying a pre build is only opening the case to remove the packing materials and then booting it up. Tearing it down first and checking the plugs and fixing the mistakes before boot up doesn't really give us an out of box view.
It does though. We see what sort of mistakes can be made and left unchecked. What would be the point of seeing if it boots when they know there's issues that they can just discuss the issues instead? I think anyone buying a pre-built pc should check cables and connections to ensure that things are hooked up right. Anyone who just opens it up, removes the package and boots up immediately is asking for trouble. Especially when most SI's will include instructions that tell consumers to check cables and components themselves in case things have loosened in shipping or weren't assembled properly.
@@ch4z_bucks my point is the majority of people buying these just want to unpack it and boot it up. Nothing would be lost. However, fixing all the issues that might prevent it from booting, well now that opportunity is lost
Wouldn’t keeping the peels on protect the surfaces from getting scratched during shipping? I’d imagine there’s likely some dust in there that could cause small scratches that the peels probably protect it from them.
I'm impressed by their willingness to make changes quickly based on the cost of graphics cards and user feedback about the processor. The QC problems suck but that comes down to the error of a single builder. At some point you have to trust your employees to be doing good work especially if you're a fairly small company.
You have a checklist and an employee, that didn't build the system, goes through it before you button up the case. It is not rocket science. It takes about 3 minutes of additional labor to stop nearly 100% of your unforced errors that cause failure to boot on arrivals.
@@mos7wan7ed_yt that person probably has better shit to do then double check everyone else's work. The builder is responsible for doing a post build check and confirming everything is up to standard.
@@mos7wan7ed_yt it actually did boot up 😉 As someone who sometimes write how-to and checklists for the (non IT) industry, I can assure you it's always trickier than what people think.
@@3g2i63 As someone who has worked in manufacturing auditing for 3 years, I've seen countless idiots who cut corners or ignore critical control points which gets businesses slapped with non conformity flags in SEDEX audit reports. This shit can literally cost businesses their contract when it comes up for tender.
If the out of box experience is being done prior to the users receiving the machine, I would think that the more pressing issue would be that "creator" account existing on all their PCs with local admin rights to all the PCs. I really hope the password is randomly generated at least because that sounds like security hell.
I think for Starforge it solves a big problem they actually have "what PC should I get" is a huge common question in Twitch chats for streamers. Being able to capitalize on that question is valuable when you're a streamer and viewers aren't going to care if the price difference is 25% over self building.
Are you in general more interested in affordable IT or rather freakish super high end crazy stuff? I am asking to try to understand my audience better, too 🙏
Zack from OTK has said it before: "People will pay for convenience." Sure you could build one yourself, but a 25% mark up seems fair if you have zero knowledge of how to build a pc and want one quickly. You dont have to worry about; Plugging things incorrectly Parts arriving at different times Getting cheaper deals on parts from different sellers on different websites Parts arriving DOA
@@BeetleBuns To be honest it's pretty infuriating that all the time I spent learning how to make custom water loop cooled caselabs SMA8 etc.. 3 way SLI PCs over the years is essentially a dead skill akin to a degree in 'feminist dance theory' or some shit. I fully planned to make a business out of this, but sat on my ass past the tech boom that happened due to mobile phones becoming as globally ubiquitous as they were. I was still stuck in 2012 thinking "the normies won't catch on yet" and my small amazon pc selling career was left at just that, despite me having the ability to throw a quarter million dollars at it before the pandemic and some bad decisions financially ruined me. Now with the low margins and highly saturated/competitive industry-scape it's just not worth it apparently. Sad that my chance to see a hobby become a livelihood is up in smoke.
@ProudOfYourRoots When it's your hobby you pursue particular aspects of that hobby that are interesting. When it's your job you do what the boss/clients ask you to do, typically the same or similar job over and over. I agree with you, keep your hobby and job separate.
@@Sithhy which they have done. They have proven that they take the public's opinion very seriously and actually want to do this thing right. I hope nothing but the best for this company.
I work in logistics and those expanding foam packs get really hot and have a tendency to tear open, id be happier seeing them use internal braces like you described. The foam can also over expand and press on the frame and glass causing warping due to the heat. I know because I've done this shipping a pc before and felt like an idiot afterwards.
Man… I forgot that Linus use to be a pc building and components review channel. Even though it is still that in some points, I watch Linus and the Linus media group for my tech news. Keep up the great work guys. From a random viewer.
Honestly seems pretty good for what is essentially a small start up. If they keep listening to feedback and making improvements they might end up being a serious contender in the market.
4:41 that's why the INSANE amount of LEGO I have always comes in a completely unmarked brown cardboard box. Many Hundreds of sets. Yes. I'm 40.. no, I don't have a problem. YOU have a problem.
To be fair to StarForge PC, I just recently ordered an NZXT pre-built PC and it has/had a lot of the "issues" Linus brought up in this video. My pre-built PC came with: 1. No discrete packaging/box. The box was just the pc case box. 4:34 2. A front mounted radiator, not top mounted. 5:57 3. XMP was not enabled. I had to go into the BIOS and enable it myself. 13:06 4. DDR 4 RAM on an intel platform board. 9:13 5. Windows was pre-installed however, a "creator account" was not present to my understanding. 11:30 6. No windows license sticker on the case (not a huge deal because, like he said, the license is digitally bound to the motherboard). 12:04 7. A KF processor. 12:47 7. Some unused cords/accessories missing. 7:36 8. NZXT did not pay for the shipping of my pc. The shipping cost $100. 9. A 3.0 ssd that was installed in the one and only 4.0 PCIe lane on my motherboard (It's not a big deal but I did have to swap it to a 3.0 PCIe lane after buying a gen 4 Samsung 980 evo that I wanted to go into the 4.0 PCIe lane to get the fastest speeds from it).
The only things i cant agree with is the DDR4 choice because DDR5 is NOT worth to buy right now (even if you go in the factory directly nop), and the XMP is not enabled by default because it's not the manufacturer cover behavior it's an overclock, if you enable it it's at your own risk and if it dies in few days you can't refund it at all 😑 Yeah the ventilator one is triggering...
@@andrewtimothy9792 DDR5 and corresponding motherboards are way overpriced because of the ''NVIDIA'' effect. Low supply really high demand so they took liberty to price gouged early, they are lower now, but they would've to pay full price 5 weeks ago (time of build). This might change in the future with a markup for DDR5 platform, but right now it makes no sense to even have the option for ''custom prebuilts''
Were y'all born bitter, negative, and dumb, or did you work hard at it? He watched a video review of HIS computer company. Which drove me to watch the source video. Which gave this channel another view, and comment. LMAO!!!!!
@@pandanutiypanda Yeah, so people playing videogame and posting the result on youtube/twitch are stealing content from gaming company uh? Lol go read about fair use
I'm confused why they never compared to or ever brought up NZXT build. They do still build PCs and only charge MSRP plus $100 for the service. Not bashing on starforge I just feel like it would be a really good comparison
Hey guys MAINGEAR CEO here! I definitely agree that it is a lot hard to deliver a quality system and amazing support experience than a lot of people realize. It’s also really tough to directly compare pricing between system builders, because we all make different choices on the components we offer on our configurators like power supplies, ram, and storages options. For example, I noticed the MAINGEAR pc in the video had a 1200W Platinum rated power supply selected vs the 850w gold power supply in Origin’s. Linus’s was also definitely right that the GPU pricing volatility has made it even harder. I think it’s best to look at our preconfigured systems which offer our best value. The most similar pre-configured system we have is our VYBE with the 12900k RTX 3080 and 32GB of DDR 5 for $2849.
Yeah that main gear comparison didn’t seem too fair.. y’all are typically more expensive but not as exaggerated as depicted here. And if I recall correctly, LTT gave you all the best secret shopper award or something.
In 10 hours and the company’s representative/head/boss Asmongold (I don’t really know his official title in otk) made a review video of your review. Imo he was responding to it very well and I hope his company will take your criticism into consideration.
I hope they survive and thrive, while more expensive compared to a DIY (and DIY should always be cheaper anyways), still leagues cheaper than other "boutique" pc shops and pre-builts. I stand behind the option of buying a prebuilt and upgrading over time as you get a pc working out the gate, and its much easier to learn pc building one upgrade at a time since you started with something that you know works and so easier to figure out what went wrong. I've had several pre-builts and laptops over the years and my current pc started life as a Cyber Power (i think?) prebuilt on sale for not much more than DIY. Its kinda a "Ship of Theseus" at this point as its gone through so many interations over the years and the only things now that are original are the case and one of the drives and thats only cause im too cheap to buy a new case (a case is a case amirite?) I've graduated from pre-builts and have scatch built and upgraded several pc's for family and friends. So I wouldn't likely be a future buyer but definitly will recommend them to others looking for a pre-built as they are pretty competivly priced and once the QC is fine tuned will make a solid purchase
Looking at the current configs and price honestly they look like a REALLY good value on the lower end right now even if the configs still have some slightly weird choices (a lot of unnecessary aesthetics for the pricepoint, but somehow they don't seem to have sacrificed performance). Idk how much shipping would be but an identical system to the one they're currently selling for $850 US before shipping (11400F, ASUS B560m-AC, 6600XT, 16 GB DDR4-3200 CL16, 600W Gold PSU, 512GB Gen3x4 SSD) was like $1000 including shipping on pcpartpicker and the cheapest one I could throw together in a few minutes without sacrificing performance or reliable parts was still around $900. That said, them going with 11400F when a 12400F and an equivalent b660 is only like $10-15 more for a decent generational performance jump even at the lower end is weird and if I weren't going to just build my own whenever I happen to upgrade next them going with last-gen hardware that isn't even meaningfully cheaper than current-gen would definitely be a bit of a turn-off. Definitely weird that they had such obvious QI issues as they did with that system, especially on the top end one where the margins are inherently MUCH higher and them hiring basically the whole Artesian business unit is definitely a sketchy look (plus the stuff with Mizkif and suppressing negative feedback really doesn't help) but I have to admit that pure price to performance their 2 cheaper builds are priced very competitively (currently) and their top ones aren't terribly priced either especially for a system integrator. Definitely interesting to say the least. EDIT: 6 days since this comment and I checked back- they redid their configs (and mostly in a good way!). They increased the price for the baseline from $850 to $1100, BUT they also changed the specs a little (12400, B660, 6650XT) so the exact match system on pcpartpicker atm is $1089. That's just a $10 premium to get it built and configured externally which is still a very good value IF it's built properly and shipped safely. However, with a bit of looking, I was able to spec out a build with the exact same performance (well, a 12400f can't do onboard video for troubleshooting/initial boot testing but in practical applications it's identical) for $981. At that point, it's still nowhere near a bad value relative to others in the space (ex. BuildRedux lets you config a build that's virtually identical except for a 3060 instead of 6650 and a 700W PSU instead of 600, and they charge $1400 for it) but it's enough of a premium that it becomes worthwhile to consider building yourself or finding a friend who can help build it and buying them a pizza as a thank you. As to the other builds? For $400 more the $1500 model changes 2 things: a 750W PSU (about a $25-30 value add) and a 6800 XT instead of 6650 XT (a $250-275 value add). Overall it's worth about $300 more, and you're now hitting a $225 markup to get it built externally. And the $2300 model? you won't sacrifice anything going from a 13600K to KF, nor will you sacrifice anything (other than a few more PCIe 4.0 lanes that this build doesn't touch anyways) by sticking with a Z690 rather than Z790 and so with the KF/690 config it will go for $1950 while the K/790 build will be more like $2135. So the markup for an exact match is around $265 while the markup over the cheapest equivalent build in performance and quality is more like $350.
I worked as a system builder and one of the things on our checklist was cable connections. Making sure everything was hooked up properly. Colleagues checked that after the testing, before the final packaging.
Seeing Asmongold react to this live on stream was not only gutsy but beyond hilarious. This might be one of my favorite pre-build reviews you've done lmao
@Ian Visser If you actually choose the same parts as the Starforge system on pcpartpicker it comes out to under $2600 with windows 11 pro. That is still over 400$ less even with the sale that they have going on right now.
It is our appreciation that allows them to have 80 + employees, multiple channels, multiple internal businesses and the freedom not to be bound to corporate overlords so...yea...
I just want to say that in my hp elitedesk 800 G4 it has an LED next to the power button that occasionally blinks, so it could be a drive activity LED?
I'd love to see this done but for PhynixPC, they're also a group that formed out of Artesian but are worker owned. From my understanding they're also from the east coast operation which had a lower defect rate than the team in California.
Really fun to watch video for me because at my minijob I build PCs and have to avoid exactly such mistakes Linus pointed out. I am happy to report Im feeling quite confident in my work after seeing this haha
I used to work for a PC building company. They haven't put COA stickers on cases for years with OA3 being used to inject the key into the board. Just make sure the key is tied to a microsoft account if you change boards or forever deal with the activation watermark.
I love that Linus is a considerate but honest person. Honestly one of my favourite if not the top spot for tech related content. Keep being your amazing self and shout out to the rest of the LTT/LMG peeps that are the reason we get to see these videos.
it would be interesting to see if the options in the $700 to $2000 price range get the same treatment. because they'll probably sell less $3,5k builds, are they built with more care or less?
So my nephew is from the US and came to visit in France as he does every year, i built him a brand new PC (with a used rx 580 as GPU prices are still ridiculous in europe). Every point you made is every point i touched upon when building his PC. I built it as he first arrived so he had about a month or so to test, zero issues. I sent it back on the plane (cheaper then shipping) along with the cpu cooler mounting hardware (in case he needs it) and with every single psu cable. Also sent the mobo box and cpu box in case theres a need for RMA. The issue i have with most system builders, they're more concerned about money then their customers. This is why i don't build professionally as i know most places that build PCs dont do it well, and as i used to do tech sales 20 years ago, i know that customers are just fubar, and i don't have the personality to deal with em lol.
I don't really like nitpicking stuff, but if I pay grand money for something, I want it to be PERFECT. Linus is absolutely correct for everything he says.
You should make another video about these guys. I ordered my pc from them on October 12th and im STILL waiting. 4 delays so far what a disaster these guys and from what i've seen many others still waiting as well.
@nate the oneeeee positive so far is they are replacing my 3090ti for the 4080 16gb at 0 additional cost for the inconvenience but whenever they decide to finally freaking ship it! 🤦🏻♂️
I have a very serious problem with comparing the price/performance of a boutique system from an SI to a DIY build. The entire reason to purchase the system from an SI is so that you are not responsible for building it yourself. The extra cost is deserved if the build quality is there because you are paying for the system to be professionally assembled, and you get a warranty on the ENTIRE PC. If you build the computer yourself and it starts having stability issues a year later, you’d better hope you are good at troubleshooting or know a good repair shop. Many repair shops also won’t work on systems that you built yourself. If the build quality and product support are up to snuff, then a system from an SI should cost about 15 - 20% more than building it yourself.
I think the worst thing on that computer is that they didn't give you all the power cables. Like you said what if someone needs molex? I know people hate that connector but you really should account for people adding stuff.
Wow, Linus came out swinging in the beginning but softened up a bit near the end. I think overall, spending over 3k its good that we have people willing to take a critical eye towards these Sis. Good job LTT
"what are they gonna do with the mountain of modular sata cables" - sell them to a recycler. a box of random copper wire will get you $30 from a recyler. scrap metal is quite valuable
Artisian builds had a pretty good team on the east coast, It often happens that a team just continues working under a different name or for a different company. Don't judge them just because they worked for a failed business / owner.
This was a fantastic review of a new company. Kudos for being fair and giving us a solid review of the experience. Refreshing to say the least. Also OMG their logo design... WTF it really does look like male anatomy. Graphic designer brain screaming
Front panel headers really should just be a one-connector solution in this, The Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Twenty Two. Having streamers, who would really be end-users in this case and want a perfectly built 100% Out-of-Box-Ready product, as owners also means that the executive office may always have the end-user in mind when making decisions.
While I agree with you, one doesn't impact the other. Starforge is just an SI, not an actual manufacturer. If every motherboard manufacturer agreed to keep the layout the same, then it would make sense. I believe there is one case manufacturer that uses a single plug, but god-forbid you have the one motherboard with the not-so-standard Front IO layout. Though I highly doubt motherboard and case manufacturers will agree to that, because just like Apple for their iPhones, everyone has to be different.
16:40, its even worse than just not getting their paychecks. In some cases the company actually filed a claim against their employees on paypal to take back money they had already been paid and paypal just sided with the company since they were larger.
11:32 You can preinstall programs on a windows machine and keep the OOBE. You just has to create a generalised image of a system with those programs installed. That's how comapanies (and OEM I guess) can deploy windows machines so fast. Source: I done it. And all laptops I bought has preinstalled progams and bloatware
@Will I was refering to the thing about not accepting the Windows agrement. A pc installed with an image is basically unconfigured execpt a few "generalised" stuff the OEM changed. Like installing a program or something else.
I'll save you a lot of time. Use audit mode to bypass OOBE temporarily. Ctrl-Shift-F3 at OOBE and it lets you set up the PC without making an account or anything.
Don't mind this comment, it's timestamps for a school project 1:24 - Is it a good deal? 1:25 - +1 - Is it well built 1:27 - +2 - Does it work at all by the time it arrives? 1:30 - +3 - Oh and who sponsored this mess? 1:32 - +2 - Ridge! 1:33 - +1 - [Záběr na ridge] 1:35 - +2 - [Ridge v ruce] 1:38 - +3 - [Ridge do kapsy] 1:41 - +3 - [ridge na stole co se kurva děje] 1:44 - +3 - [hodně jich je na stole] 1:46 - +2 - Right nooow 1:47 - +1 - [Family guy funny moments]
With the recent OTK controversy and pretty recent Artesian controversy, it would of been super easy to just sh*t on Starforge the whole video. Glad you didn't punch down at the same time not holding back punches either. Most of us watching this video would probably build our own systems though.
I've built a lot of my own computers over the year, but I've also used Scan Computers (in the UK) for prebuilt systems before, and their service has been excellent over 30 years of using them - it definitely IS possible for a system builder to survive for the long haul, it's just a lot more work than most people think.
Yes, I’m also based in the UK and Scan have been excellent in my experience, as well. I built a large Synology NAS with 12 EXOS enterprise hard drives + a very high end PC with an ASUS X670E Extreme motherboard and their service has been excellent. They shipped everything in 24 hours and it was shipped in beautifully safe packaging, their tech team also supported me with a setup question I had. They’re not the cheapest around, but their customer service and attention to good packing more than justified the small price differences. I am not affiliated with them in any way, I’m just a satisfied customer
I have that case. the power button light should be static blue for power and blink the red color when there is drive activity. So that is half correct.
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mV5bGIswTtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for giving us such a thorough review for Starforge!
We really appreciate both the kind words and fair criticisms that you have, and will work to address them. We all have a lot of respect for the way you approach things!
... Also, I swear it's a hammer, not a penis!
Warriors>Paladins
Yo
true shit
Hammer could be bigger.
Ay lets go babyy
I fully agree with Linus. As being in almost every position in IT who handled help desk calls at 16, now an "IT Director/CTO" with over 30 years in the corporate world, I quit making PC's for people in a general sense a long time ago except for myself, my daughter, and my immediate family. Anybody who has built computers for those people that are not technically savvy, will land themselves in a nightmare of tech support hell if sold to the wrong person. Let alone the problems if you have to ship it which makes me shudder. The Icing on the cake is if you are just so nice, you keep dealing with the person's computer issue to make you go nuts.
it's not dealing with computer issuses that makes you go nuts, it's dealing with stupidity of some people. Like when you go to check out how PC got too slow (multiple times might i add) only to find 4 antiviruses, loads of useless stuff in autoload and C drive being 98% filled, just because people can't read and don't listen.
@@dakoderii4221 please don't use hyperbolic, untrue hashtags.
I've made 'alright' income by building pcs out of second hand parts for 'as is' systems. But that is a game where you really need to know when not to buy the part, and for the love of all that is holy you really need a second phone number for that one.
But, I was selling them via bulletin boards in gas stations and I was very upfront that those were budget systems made from salvaged parts off of ebay and as often as not that there is unconventional parts choices going on.
The second hand Quadro market for instance can be a godsend for those types of systems and while they are not optimized for gaming they do tend to do an adequate job of it.
I build computers for my immediate family -- the younger ones are forced to watch and learn how to build and set up the OS. Otherwise, they don't get a PC.
Watch some Cary Holzman. Just because I put the machine together doesn’t mean I am you’re tech support. That costs extra.
Would be cool to see a secret buyer or tech support video with Star forge to see how they respond to customer inquiries or customer issues experienced with their systems :)
Which is the big one, as Maingear's higher price also comes with them also getting high marks from Linus's Secret Shopper video.
It'd be hard to find someone they can present on camera but haven't yet, since a company made by streamers could probably recognize a youtuber
@@Zenchyi well now they can´t do it, but They have tons of people we don´t see on camera, especially since that person would communicate with them over phone and email
I've heard that it's actually rather good tech support.
Definitely! They should 100% be part of LTT secret buyer
I found this video 2 months later. It is pretty well detailed and shows what to look out for. But I would like to see a redo at some point just to see if Starforge improved or not
Agreed
They should add them to the next secret shopper (whenever that is).
As someone who just bought a starforge system, and it came not working properly, I agree.
@@cheesecake4204 How long was the wait time for it I’ve been thinking about going with them
@@chancehocker7027 Are you sure? He just said it came not working properly 😂
Man... that intro was just extremely silly... glad y'all had fun XD
Silly, but extremely accurate at the same time. Customers can be real b!tches if they want to.
Stripping their bosses is still a dream to many
@GH0STST4RSCR34M You would(n't) be surprised how many people imagine that. Sometimes multiple times a day..
It’s funny because it’s true lol customers complain all the time
That intro was fr goofy asl
I wish the industry I work in had someone like Linus and his team being a loud-but-level-headed voice of reason.
What industry?
@@captainjimmy2306 the industry he works in
I just wanna know!
@@captainjimmy2306 @metori (lol) This 1-2-3 exchange made me think of Abbot and Costello's "Who's on first?" routine from so long ago.
@@patricksweeney6334 yeah, so who is on first anyway?
13:50 If someone from Starforge is reading this. You can get custom colored and labeled 100mil headers and adapters made really really cheap and MOQ is also only around 1000-5000.
So I would recommend you make yourself a custom adapter with colors, this way your techs can plug the cables first into the adapter and then they only have to connect one thing to the MB, plus you give your end-user a labeled adapter in case they want to change something later on.
some motherboards even have that included.
but what would be even better, if the case manufacturers start using a single block instead of the individual connectors. all motherboards these days have the same layout for the 4 front i/o cables anyways. there is absolutly no need to have seperate connectors.
@@FeuerToifel I like having them separate because I find the drive activity light annoying, particularly if I leave my PC on overnight (in my bedroom). I want the power LED, though, so I just use part of that header
You should watch asmongold reacting to this video. It was priceless
@@chrisyoung1642 oh my gosh i hecking LOVE based daddy asmongold!!!!! Keep us updated on what he does.
@@chrisyoung1642 who tf watches asmongold reaction videos, get atta here.
You gave them a pretty fair shake. Asmongold had some pretty big cajones watching your review live on stream. And he owned their mistakes. Overall a win for you and them.
mostly, he still claims it's a hammer, and all i could thing was, 'the lady doth protest too much!'
If i was selling something i would tell you whatever you want to hear to get a buy out of ya.....
he totally skipped over the sexual assault stuff somehow
It's easy to own the mistakes when you can blame the people that actually build the PC as opposed to the guy throwing money at it and saying fix this shit.
@@kylehagertybanana why would he comment on that when the main point is the pc review? There's time and place for everything
I am really appreciative of how honest Linus is in this video
basically is telling them how to make money for nothing in return to himself. i don't like that since it makes the unfair 'streamers' get more money too.
@@Petah5 in denial about his own for what? his company spends months just making a single product perfecting it idk how that is being in denial about his own?
@@stickyup6293 the whole "just trust me bro" situation?
@@MindBlowerWTF get over it already..wtf..it has been WEEKS..it's not like it's an exploding psu or fire-hazard pc case..it's a freaking backpack
@@MindBlowerWTF As long as you consider admitting fault and rectifying the situation before there even really was a situation "denial".
It was pretty nice for customer care to do the discount after purchase when they updated the specs of the item beyond what you had purchased.
They didn't update the specs, they took the 200$ refund and kept the 3080ti
@@Cyan101 that's what they're saying, it was nice of the company to offer a refund due to pricing changes after they had already purchased the PC
@@Cyan101 Yes, they did. The model they bought was upgraded to a 3090 on the site for the same price after they had purchased (because GPU prices dropped). So they refunded them the difference in cost of that single component.
was awesome they refunded them, most companies wouldn’t as the market changes so fast but they still did it, could also be because linus purchased the pc and they wanted browny points but I hope that’s not the case and they do stuff like this for all customers
they're just trying to leave a good impression to get started; wait a short while and they won't ever do shit like that (except if they're on camera of course...)
That's at least an hour of stream content for the whole of OTK
Per streamer…
2h for Asmon. Who might get sidetracked so much that he starts tugging on the cables of his own rig... no script needed after that.
LOL!
NmpLol watched this on his stream this morning already....
An hour? You underestimate how much streamers stall and pause the videos every 3 seconds
6:03 - I nearly ended my relationship with a phone carrier because the clerk took the clear protectors off the phone for me. Leaving them on is a HUGE PLUS. And it lets me know the parts were new, most likely, on installation.
Still wonders me what world you guys live in... Here it's advised to not even accept pre-opened phone boxes, and send them back immediately.
a phone and a CPU cooler are just different. how u ask? any person who ordered a pc from an SI , is likely not familiar with things inside a pc and probably just want the computer, that makes little to no chance of them opening the case themselves and removing peels from components inside the PC.
it's best to just remove them , no sense in leaving the peel on on the components inside
@@yashgupta1724 Leaving them on does nothing to affect the performance. So, in the end it doesn't matter. It should be left on and removed by the consumer.
When I buy electronics, I have to remove things before use ALL the time. I just removed 27 pieces of plastic covering from a printer I bought. I didn't build the printer. I just wanted to print things. And yes, some were inside, but the instructions made sure to tell me about them. Reading, it's fckn crazy how it works.
If you're too smooth brained to ready a product before its first use, maybe you shouldn't have one.
You’re confusing product security for customer service, only weirdos leave the plastic on the screen of a new phone and now we all know you’re a weirdo. They were doing you a favor
@@UTP_ENT I don't 'leave it on'.... I don't use the phone while the film is still on the phone... I don't know HOW you determined that's what I meant.... >.>
Videos like this are why I started watching Linus when he was as the house that had Whole Room Water-cooling PC. He's willing to let things slide, but is also critical in a way as to be constructive with his feedback, rather than be negative without any suggestions.
It means companies that have Linus review their things have a nice little list of things they can improve, if they choose to listen
should've called their customer support to see if they could help you fix the unseated power cables :P good video tho, thanks for covering starforge, was hoping you or GN would do this :)
They can't. Starforge systems doesn't have a customer support phone number 🙃
@@Primeyy lol, fair
They do have an email to contact tho. Wish it was a bit quicker, small company considered tho
if you start the pc with cables half unplugged like that there is a decent chance you can break something. I would've 100% tried that if i were linus just to laugh at them more tbh. Idm the LED thing but the power cables? Com'on
And when they try that, the first thing they hear is "what's up customer it's Cr1tikal".
3DMark does actually have a pass / fail system... it is the specific "Stress Test" option. It even gives a percentage of reliability. Keep up the good work LTT!
This is actually great info to know about
@@payinghomage322 No, he didn't. FFS dude.
@@payinghomage322 Yes, it gives a score, but the stress test is not the same test ffs. Look it up, I run it on all the computers I sell.
FFS.
Sorry, just wanted to do my part.
@@Seamus.Harper FFS.
Yeah, I'm with you on that one
Coming out of college I worked in a tech room 10 years ago building pre-configed computers (mostly home/office and a few gaming pc’s). Things become loose so easy during transit (screws/4-8 pin connectors etc…). The calls I used to receive were just so brutal with so many issues. While I was there the company literally started charging for extended warranties because the scope of calls were getting ridiculous. The company stopped doing pre-builds in the mail about a year after I left. The owner said it just wasn’t worth it. They did however keep custom PCs in their actual store and that business ran strong until 2020 when they closed the doors and just because an eBay/Amazon store.
For those who don't know, GN did a long exposé on AB (artisan builds). They found that the COO was well loved and did a lot of the grunt work and interacting with employees. He eventually went to the AB east division and everything went downhill.
Yeah the mentionning of Artesian Build scared the Heck out of me until I realised who was who coming from it.
It's a tough market to be in. I wish the best to everyone buying from them and moreover WORKING for them.
*Everything went downhill because of bad management from CEO.
If I remember correctly, this guy was pumping out almost enough to carry the entire company while the CEO was out there killing it.
7:11 has got to be the cleanest screw driver equip animation I have ever seen
I DO AGREEE!!!
Movies do it with a GUN
Linus with a SCREWDRIVER
what's the big difference between this screw driver and this 15 in 1 Klein Tools Ratcheting Screwdriver that I have lived by for the longest? I'd love to know because it was very affordable..
yep
@Bryan Brown he has a half hour video explaining why it took so long and why the high price point its called something like "why it took 3 years", just search on youtube for ltt screwdriver
Gotta get that in cs:go 3 for my grandkids
15:00
Major props to the writers for the framing of this section. It's slight, but the walk from the bin back to the computer while going over this really made it that much more engaging and interesting than if it was just at the computer itself. The callback 'plot' beat of looking for the outer box was a neat touch. It's also just nice to have a walk-n-talk and passively see how to get here-from-there on a non-tour video.
this video seems more like its promoting starforge than critiquing it
Even so, it's the execution of the shot I'm applauding and complimenting LTT on. The content within that shot is a discussion on its own, for sure but isn't what I was focusing on.
True
@snekond_place
Water is wet 💦 The sky is a rainbow 🌈 There is no gold at the end of the bow.
Eh. All it did was make me think how awkward it must be to walk backwards like that and how I would absolutely be standing still doing that segment, lol
I'm gonna HARD PASS on anything promoted by twitch streamers.
knowing the diligence of the twitch streaming ecosystem, a product being promoted by one just SCREAMS "I'm in it for the money."
@MissingFile. Everyone's in it for the money when it comes to any business or job . You think they started up this business for fun and they weren't in it for the money?
@@Gee-bg2rv yeah . some streamer just do it because they like it , not just to make a bit of money selling garbage to their viewers
@slipoma they like it & it makes them money. They wouldn't be doing it if it didn't make them money buddy
@@Gee-bg2rv Lotta streamer simps in here. We know you just wanna buy the pc because of emi. Go cap some pics off the stream and spend 4 grand on a pc.
It's clear that your criticisms come from a place of hope and respect, very nice to see.
Also, looking forward to see what comes out of the lab's testing with the new CPUs and GPUs coming.
We can always rely on Linus to be real and straight forward. Love the dude and glad he stayed with us.
I think I like him also (otherwise wouldn't spend hours watching his videos) but real and straightforward is often subjective. In this case (noticed without deep analysis), DIY build besides time difference didn't price windows license. He is pointing out in videos many times one sided opinions on irrelevant (for many) details, not mentioning important stuff. I don't want to blame or shame him....some of this things is just how people see world differently, some are influenced by business practice also, and it's understandable. My dream is for people to understand that there are no heroes these days and for every honest opinion there is another swayed one. As former computer integrator and business owner I applaud his knowledge, energy, passion and business skills. I disagree on many things with Linus also (Apple, Tesla), but still support him by watching and recently buying his products. Just got a backpack, took it for a bachelor trip (LV baby) and I like it a lot. Still waiting for a screwdriver. Does it mean I will wear boxers with his logo? probably not. Just liked progress updates on developing process, trusted his price/quality/functionality judgment and I am happy. Sorry for venting out...I rarely do it...probably pre-wedding stress :)
@@smartlifesystems When you do a DIY build, you don't ever include the cost of a Windows License because it's not required to run Windows 10.The only reason SIs have to include it is because they can't ship the PC without licensing Windows. It's one of those wacky things. There is absolutely nothing that will stop you from using Windows without activating it though. We rarely activate it on our machines at work and never have any issues. We change those machines so frequently it's just not worth the headache to deal with a license for a testing machine.
Basically, it's perfectly fine to price out DIY and compare to an SI without a license key. If you want it to be there, just add ~$115 for a key. You don't need to pay that much for one since Microsoft gives them away for free legally for tons of random reasons, and you can buy them easily for around $15 from a grey market, but if it makes you feel better about the pricing, you can slip it in there.
Pirate windows.
You always put these 20-ish-minute videos and I think that I probably won't watch the whole thing and might even turn it off after a couple minutes, but I almost always get sucked in and watch the whole thing. That's a sign of a quality video. Good job LMG! Sure, you eat up a lot of my time, lol, but it's enjoyable. I often see people doing long videos to feed the youtube algorithm, but your videos actually seem to be packed with content to where it seems that all the moments of time used were important. Long-time fan (not from the NCIX days though, lol)
yeah, and im adhd af. I don't watch 20 minute videos.
im watching youtube on 1.5x
quality production, quality writers, quality research, quality host, and most of all, a quality attitude!
it's the same for me and at one point i just started watching stuff at 1.5x unless it's stuff that's based on pacing(music videos, game clips etc). i watched this one at normal speed for the first time and i felt like he was talking too slow lol
Every time I watch an LTT video, I'm blown away by the production quality. I've been watching for years and it's been awesome to watch the progression.
i find a lot of influencers very entertaining but i'm gonna be honest, i don't think i'd ever buy anything nearly as important as a new gaming rig from any of them lmao
A lot of twitch streamers are probably their own tech support, so at the very least they know approximately what they're doing. I don't know if I trust any of them enough to buy a PC from them, but if someone is gonna run a pre-built company, it may as well be twitch streamers
I mean they are not the ones building it tho...
"Influencer" is such a horrible term.
@@dekkonot there's no way anyone in OTK bar Schlatt (who studied CS) would do their own tech support.
Idk but i watch alot of stream n 90% don't even know what in their system. They just buy n install the app they use n that's about it.
I like that you’re stepping up to communicate your discoveries and not just troll someone. Good job.
Yea.. almost disappointed with the click bait title (I'm okay with it, watched full video 😅)
@@armanke13 I don't understand the problem people have with click baiting. I mean, i do, those youtubers who just blatantly lie, those are just not worthy of any attention, but besides that, click baiting is just how things work, its why people such as yourself might click on this video.
@@armanke13 Referring to Starforge as the C&B or the PRCC might be a little bit mean... Or was that just the Twitch chats of all those who have watched the review so far?
Fun Fact: a sponsor of StarForge found out about this video in less than a minute of it being released, and is watching it live on stream right now lol.
Link it
@@johnbrianbillyjimxaviermon2207 its EsfandTV
could be a sub on floatplane
That's a good sponsor. Gotta be on top of the message if that's their job hahaha
Esfand is probably classified as a co-owner rather than a sponsor.
One thing I noticed at the end is all of the price comparisons (specifically the differentials) at the end were compared to the price that they purchased the system at and not the price after the adjustments. I think a little bit more praise should have been given for the after purchase price adjustments and the final comparisons should have been made to the adjusted price.
Damn, I gotta hand it to Linus’s production crew…. That shot of Linus rummaging through the literal dumpster was one of the most beautiful scenes on RUclips.
You do understand that he never actually rummaged through it, right? He just posed on top of the dumpster.
@@danielduncan6806 This is more commentary on the composition of the shot itself rather than commentary on what he was actually doing… I don’t care whether or not he was actually looking for the thing, it was extremely well captured and edited.
@@danielduncan6806 yes because it was empty? why go inside a empty dumpster when the thing your looking for is already gone
timestamp?
@@tomikun8057 4:26
We need some Sarah secret shopper levels of testing for starforge at this point.
You handled the mizkif thing extremly well probs to you guys didnt expect anything different from you
That mizkif is getting a bad rap.
i still can't believe he raped all these women. and asmongold knew
@@spankbuda7466 Mizkif should be banned from the platform. He covered up sexual assault for his own gain.
@@Jdkieddj didn't the girl say she wasn't even assaulted, she just felt uncomfortable?
@@spankbuda7466 mizkif literally covered up SA, how can you still like the guy
This video was actually great feedback and I'm interested to see if starforge then takes it in and works their stuff like they did with the community feedback. You should do this again in 6-8 months, sorta checkup, you know?
I agree
At least one of their members did comment (top comment) thanking LTT for the review.
@@grn1 Oh wow, a cooperate pledge to improve their product (for public ratings/approval), haven't heard that before!
@@DutchGuyMike The cynic in me agrees but I try to have some faith in humanity and trust until I've got good reason not to. From everything I've heard they took the good parts (passionate, knowledgeable people) from a failure of a company and are trying to do it better.
This is one of those LTT videos that you show to someone to make them understand why LTT is such an important channel nowadays.
Because they appreciate penis rockets!
I think the peel thing is a personal choice. I would very much prefer to do my own peels. It's kind of like marking your territory
Plus, when he said the average customer has no reason to be opening the case, I think he totally forgot that he literally *had* to remove the side panel because there's a couple giant inflatable foam things that have to be removed, so *every* user has to open the case. I could still very much see them missing the peel, but as long as it's not going to potentially cause any problems down the line if it's forgotten I think that's fine.
But will you even notice it already being peeled?
@@kolby4078 no but I will appreciate being able to peel it myself.
@@DoRC in otherwords, not required by the company
@@mikeymaiku it is required 🗿
I look forward to Asmon's 2hr video reacting to this video and pausing ever 4 seconds.
Him being in the forefront of that company, objectivity should not be expected from him, on this one.
@@lamikal2515 I don't watch all of his content, but I have seen him be fairly level headed with stuff like this. He actually recognizes the knowledge and wisdom of guys like Linus, and Steve from GN. Hopefully he doesn't make an ass of himself.
@Hudson-smm that man could turn a RUclips short into an entire day's worth of streaming
@@Ravenousjoe You're right, but up to that point, guys like Linus or Steve were not criticizing a company he is financially heavily involved in
You kind-of have to do that to stay on the right side of copyright law.
Great video! Would have liked to have seen if the PC booted up before the tear down though. Because anyone buying a pre build is only opening the case to remove the packing materials and then booting it up. Tearing it down first and checking the plugs and fixing the mistakes before boot up doesn't really give us an out of box view.
It does though. We see what sort of mistakes can be made and left unchecked. What would be the point of seeing if it boots when they know there's issues that they can just discuss the issues instead?
I think anyone buying a pre-built pc should check cables and connections to ensure that things are hooked up right. Anyone who just opens it up, removes the package and boots up immediately is asking for trouble. Especially when most SI's will include instructions that tell consumers to check cables and components themselves in case things have loosened in shipping or weren't assembled properly.
@@ch4z_bucks my point is the majority of people buying these just want to unpack it and boot it up. Nothing would be lost. However, fixing all the issues that might prevent it from booting, well now that opportunity is lost
Wouldn’t keeping the peels on protect the surfaces from getting scratched during shipping? I’d imagine there’s likely some dust in there that could cause small scratches that the peels probably protect it from them.
The exterior ones yes but interior?
8:15
"what are you gonna do with your mountain of modular SATA cables"
StarForge: Our goals are beyond your understanding
I'm impressed by their willingness to make changes quickly based on the cost of graphics cards and user feedback about the processor.
The QC problems suck but that comes down to the error of a single builder. At some point you have to trust your employees to be doing good work especially if you're a fairly small company.
You have a checklist and an employee, that didn't build the system, goes through it before you button up the case. It is not rocket science. It takes about 3 minutes of additional labor to stop nearly 100% of your unforced errors that cause failure to boot on arrivals.
@@mos7wan7ed_yt that person probably has better shit to do then double check everyone else's work. The builder is responsible for doing a post build check and confirming everything is up to standard.
@@mos7wan7ed_yt it actually did boot up 😉
As someone who sometimes write how-to and checklists for the (non IT) industry, I can assure you it's always trickier than what people think.
@@3g2i63 As someone who has worked in manufacturing auditing for 3 years, I've seen countless idiots who cut corners or ignore critical control points which gets businesses slapped with non conformity flags in SEDEX audit reports. This shit can literally cost businesses their contract when it comes up for tender.
If the out of box experience is being done prior to the users receiving the machine, I would think that the more pressing issue would be that "creator" account existing on all their PCs with local admin rights to all the PCs. I really hope the password is randomly generated at least because that sounds like security hell.
I think for Starforge it solves a big problem they actually have "what PC should I get" is a huge common question in Twitch chats for streamers. Being able to capitalize on that question is valuable when you're a streamer and viewers aren't going to care if the price difference is 25% over self building.
Are you in general more interested in affordable IT or rather freakish super high end crazy stuff?
I am asking to try to understand my audience better, too 🙏
@@ArniesTech most people will fall in the middle.
@@ArniesTech everything lol
Zack from OTK has said it before: "People will pay for convenience."
Sure you could build one yourself, but a 25% mark up seems fair if you have zero knowledge of how to build a pc and want one quickly.
You dont have to worry about;
Plugging things incorrectly
Parts arriving at different times
Getting cheaper deals on parts from different sellers on different websites
Parts arriving DOA
@@rasmachris94 ironically, it looks like you had to worry a little about things being plugged correctly anyway :)
My friends and family "Why don't you start a PC business?" Hell no.
I constantly have to remind my dad that it's just a hobby, and will remain that way for the rest of my life, my business is plants not PCs.
@@BeetleBuns To be honest it's pretty infuriating that all the time I spent learning how to make custom water loop cooled caselabs SMA8 etc.. 3 way SLI PCs over the years is essentially a dead skill akin to a degree in 'feminist dance theory' or some shit. I fully planned to make a business out of this, but sat on my ass past the tech boom that happened due to mobile phones becoming as globally ubiquitous as they were. I was still stuck in 2012 thinking "the normies won't catch on yet" and my small amazon pc selling career was left at just that, despite me having the ability to throw a quarter million dollars at it before the pandemic and some bad decisions financially ruined me. Now with the low margins and highly saturated/competitive industry-scape it's just not worth it apparently. Sad that my chance to see a hobby become a livelihood is up in smoke.
@ProudOfYourRoots When it's your hobby you pursue particular aspects of that hobby that are interesting. When it's your job you do what the boss/clients ask you to do, typically the same or similar job over and over. I agree with you, keep your hobby and job separate.
Such genuine feedback. This will really help StarForge grow as a company. Great work.
It will help them grow if they are a genuine company & actually listen to feedback
@@Sithhy They have listened and acted already. In my book, nothing points to it not lasting
@@Sithhy which they have done. They have proven that they take the public's opinion very seriously and actually want to do this thing right. I hope nothing but the best for this company.
"Help them grow", "inform customers not to buy from them". However you want to say it.
Is The Verge a silent partner in this company find out next week
This is basically high praise coming from Linus. He's one of the, understandably, most critical people in the tech space.
I work in logistics and those expanding foam packs get really hot and have a tendency to tear open, id be happier seeing them use internal braces like you described. The foam can also over expand and press on the frame and glass causing warping due to the heat. I know because I've done this shipping a pc before and felt like an idiot afterwards.
jayztwocents did a video on the expanding foam things.
Man… I forgot that Linus use to be a pc building and components review channel. Even though it is still that in some points, I watch Linus and the Linus media group for my tech news. Keep up the great work guys. From a random viewer.
Honestly seems pretty good for what is essentially a small start up. If they keep listening to feedback and making improvements they might end up being a serious contender in the market.
4:41 that's why the INSANE amount of LEGO I have always comes in a completely unmarked brown cardboard box.
Many Hundreds of sets. Yes. I'm 40.. no, I don't have a problem. YOU have a problem.
Lego is rated from 5 to 99 years old so you're good
To be fair to StarForge PC, I just recently ordered an NZXT pre-built PC and it has/had a lot of the "issues" Linus brought up in this video. My pre-built PC came with:
1. No discrete packaging/box. The box was just the pc case box. 4:34
2. A front mounted radiator, not top mounted. 5:57
3. XMP was not enabled. I had to go into the BIOS and enable it myself. 13:06
4. DDR 4 RAM on an intel platform board. 9:13
5. Windows was pre-installed however, a "creator account" was not present to my understanding. 11:30
6. No windows license sticker on the case (not a huge deal because, like he said, the license is digitally bound to the motherboard). 12:04
7. A KF processor. 12:47
7. Some unused cords/accessories missing. 7:36
8. NZXT did not pay for the shipping of my pc. The shipping cost $100.
9. A 3.0 ssd that was installed in the one and only 4.0 PCIe lane on my motherboard (It's not a big deal but I did have to swap it to a 3.0 PCIe lane after buying a gen 4 Samsung 980 evo that I wanted to go into the 4.0 PCIe lane to get the fastest speeds from it).
whats wrong with ddr4 on a intel platform board? sorry if its a stupid question. im not an expert in PC
@@andrewtimothy9792 DDR5 is out (for intel motherboards, idk about amd), might as well use it in a $3500 pc
@@ПаскарАлексей You're not wrong. But I rarely see pre-built machines with DDR5 now.
The only things i cant agree with is the DDR4 choice because DDR5 is NOT worth to buy right now (even if you go in the factory directly nop), and the XMP is not enabled by default because it's not the manufacturer cover behavior it's an overclock, if you enable it it's at your own risk and if it dies in few days you can't refund it at all 😑
Yeah the ventilator one is triggering...
@@andrewtimothy9792 DDR5 and corresponding motherboards are way overpriced because of the ''NVIDIA'' effect. Low supply really high demand so they took liberty to price gouged early, they are lower now, but they would've to pay full price 5 weeks ago (time of build). This might change in the future with a markup for DDR5 platform, but right now it makes no sense to even have the option for ''custom prebuilts''
Asmongolds face reacting to this is priceless....thanks guys lmao!!!!
Thats literally his full time job to do silly face while watching youtube (aka stealing content)
Doesn't surprise me that he had to take the work of someone else and show it on his stream for his own profit.
@@johnfrian My brother in christ they are reviewing the product of the business he owns
Were y'all born bitter, negative, and dumb, or did you work hard at it? He watched a video review of HIS computer company. Which drove me to watch the source video. Which gave this channel another view, and comment. LMAO!!!!!
@@pandanutiypanda Yeah, so people playing videogame and posting the result on youtube/twitch are stealing content from gaming company uh? Lol go read about fair use
I still can’t believe we live in a world where a bunch of Twitch streamers can create a PC-building company.
Why? It's a pretty logical pipeline tbh.
They didn't, they definitely got paid to be "ambassadors" for the company.
@@demetter7936 meaning you can prove it?
@@not_the_pasta it’s a logical conclusion, I doubt they represent the company out of the kindness of their hearts
@@demetter7936 They own the company, they don't just represent it
I'm confused why they never compared to or ever brought up NZXT build. They do still build PCs and only charge MSRP plus $100 for the service. Not bashing on starforge I just feel like it would be a really good comparison
Hey guys MAINGEAR CEO here! I definitely agree that it is a lot hard to deliver a quality system and amazing support experience than a lot of people realize. It’s also really tough to directly compare pricing between system builders, because we all make different choices on the components we offer on our configurators like power supplies, ram, and storages options. For example, I noticed the MAINGEAR pc in the video had a 1200W Platinum rated power supply selected vs the 850w gold power supply in Origin’s. Linus’s was also definitely right that the GPU pricing volatility has made it even harder.
I think it’s best to look at our preconfigured systems which offer our best value. The most similar pre-configured system we have is our VYBE with the 12900k RTX 3080 and 32GB of DDR 5 for $2849.
no
Yeah that main gear comparison didn’t seem too fair.. y’all are typically more expensive but not as exaggerated as depicted here. And if I recall correctly, LTT gave you all the best secret shopper award or something.
They really had linus get on top of the bin just like ... its gone... *nearly falls in
In 10 hours and the company’s representative/head/boss Asmongold (I don’t really know his official title in otk) made a review video of your review. Imo he was responding to it very well and I hope his company will take your criticism into consideration.
blocking people is huge turn off
@@BeautifulAngelBlossom Unsurprisingly the streamer that was caught in controversy and forced to go on leave was the one blocking people.
@@BeautifulAngelBlossom It was Mishkiff and the mod did it. Asmongold has zero control over Mishkiff's channel.
@@zhaoyun255 its mizkif :)
@@lllOnSlAuGhTlll who?
I hope they survive and thrive, while more expensive compared to a DIY (and DIY should always be cheaper anyways), still leagues cheaper than other "boutique" pc shops and pre-builts. I stand behind the option of buying a prebuilt and upgrading over time as you get a pc working out the gate, and its much easier to learn pc building one upgrade at a time since you started with something that you know works and so easier to figure out what went wrong. I've had several pre-builts and laptops over the years and my current pc started life as a Cyber Power (i think?) prebuilt on sale for not much more than DIY. Its kinda a "Ship of Theseus" at this point as its gone through so many interations over the years and the only things now that are original are the case and one of the drives and thats only cause im too cheap to buy a new case (a case is a case amirite?)
I've graduated from pre-builts and have scatch built and upgraded several pc's for family and friends. So I wouldn't likely be a future buyer but definitly will recommend them to others looking for a pre-built as they are pretty competivly priced and once the QC is fine tuned will make a solid purchase
Looking at the current configs and price honestly they look like a REALLY good value on the lower end right now even if the configs still have some slightly weird choices (a lot of unnecessary aesthetics for the pricepoint, but somehow they don't seem to have sacrificed performance). Idk how much shipping would be but an identical system to the one they're currently selling for $850 US before shipping (11400F, ASUS B560m-AC, 6600XT, 16 GB DDR4-3200 CL16, 600W Gold PSU, 512GB Gen3x4 SSD) was like $1000 including shipping on pcpartpicker and the cheapest one I could throw together in a few minutes without sacrificing performance or reliable parts was still around $900. That said, them going with 11400F when a 12400F and an equivalent b660 is only like $10-15 more for a decent generational performance jump even at the lower end is weird and if I weren't going to just build my own whenever I happen to upgrade next them going with last-gen hardware that isn't even meaningfully cheaper than current-gen would definitely be a bit of a turn-off.
Definitely weird that they had such obvious QI issues as they did with that system, especially on the top end one where the margins are inherently MUCH higher and them hiring basically the whole Artesian business unit is definitely a sketchy look (plus the stuff with Mizkif and suppressing negative feedback really doesn't help) but I have to admit that pure price to performance their 2 cheaper builds are priced very competitively (currently) and their top ones aren't terribly priced either especially for a system integrator. Definitely interesting to say the least.
EDIT: 6 days since this comment and I checked back- they redid their configs (and mostly in a good way!). They increased the price for the baseline from $850 to $1100, BUT they also changed the specs a little (12400, B660, 6650XT) so the exact match system on pcpartpicker atm is $1089. That's just a $10 premium to get it built and configured externally which is still a very good value IF it's built properly and shipped safely. However, with a bit of looking, I was able to spec out a build with the exact same performance (well, a 12400f can't do onboard video for troubleshooting/initial boot testing but in practical applications it's identical) for $981. At that point, it's still nowhere near a bad value relative to others in the space (ex. BuildRedux lets you config a build that's virtually identical except for a 3060 instead of 6650 and a 700W PSU instead of 600, and they charge $1400 for it) but it's enough of a premium that it becomes worthwhile to consider building yourself or finding a friend who can help build it and buying them a pizza as a thank you. As to the other builds? For $400 more the $1500 model changes 2 things: a 750W PSU (about a $25-30 value add) and a 6800 XT instead of 6650 XT (a $250-275 value add). Overall it's worth about $300 more, and you're now hitting a $225 markup to get it built externally. And the $2300 model? you won't sacrifice anything going from a 13600K to KF, nor will you sacrifice anything (other than a few more PCIe 4.0 lanes that this build doesn't touch anyways) by sticking with a Z690 rather than Z790 and so with the KF/690 config it will go for $1950 while the K/790 build will be more like $2135. So the markup for an exact match is around $265 while the markup over the cheapest equivalent build in performance and quality is more like $350.
I worked as a system builder and one of the things on our checklist was cable connections. Making sure everything was hooked up properly. Colleagues checked that after the testing, before the final packaging.
I wasn't expecting for chalie to be a part of such company.
Seeing Asmongold react to this live on stream was not only gutsy but beyond hilarious. This might be one of my favorite pre-build reviews you've done lmao
4:16
Did you really order through Colton? He’s a fairly recognizable LMG employee, not strictly anonymous.
Overall seems like a pretty good fair interpretation of what’s out there. Great job great video.
@Ian Visser lol who is paying $139 for windows when building DIY system
@Ian Visser If you actually choose the same parts as the Starforge system on pcpartpicker it comes out to under $2600 with windows 11 pro. That is still over 400$ less even with the sale that they have going on right now.
@Ian Visser Bro. KMS activation. Haven't paid for any of my windows license in YEARS.
@Ian Visser It would still be like $2700
can we appreciate LMG for bringing us such high quality videos regularly!!
You didnt even see the video yet
@@bobneumann3195 I don't have to see the video to know hahahaha
there's a cool skit at the front too
🗨🤖
🗨🤖
🗨🤖
🗨🤖
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bot
It is our appreciation that allows them to have 80 + employees, multiple channels, multiple internal businesses and the freedom not to be bound to corporate overlords so...yea...
I just want to say that in my hp elitedesk 800 G4 it has an LED next to the power button that occasionally blinks, so it could be a drive activity LED?
I'd love to see this done but for PhynixPC, they're also a group that formed out of Artesian but are worker owned. From my understanding they're also from the east coast operation which had a lower defect rate than the team in California.
Yeah! What he said! ^^^
4:26 The logistics department did it for a nice shot of Linus going through the bins
Really fun to watch video for me because at my minijob I build PCs and have to avoid exactly such mistakes Linus pointed out.
I am happy to report Im feeling quite confident in my work after seeing this haha
I used to work for a PC building company. They haven't put COA stickers on cases for years with OA3 being used to inject the key into the board. Just make sure the key is tied to a microsoft account if you change boards or forever deal with the activation watermark.
I love that Linus is a considerate but honest person. Honestly one of my favourite if not the top spot for tech related content. Keep being your amazing self and shout out to the rest of the LTT/LMG peeps that are the reason we get to see these videos.
it would be interesting to see if the options in the $700 to $2000 price range get the same treatment. because they'll probably sell less $3,5k builds, are they built with more care or less?
7:11 I always love the Linus screwdriver flips lol
So my nephew is from the US and came to visit in France as he does every year, i built him a brand new PC (with a used rx 580 as GPU prices are still ridiculous in europe). Every point you made is every point i touched upon when building his PC. I built it as he first arrived so he had about a month or so to test, zero issues. I sent it back on the plane (cheaper then shipping) along with the cpu cooler mounting hardware (in case he needs it) and with every single psu cable. Also sent the mobo box and cpu box in case theres a need for RMA. The issue i have with most system builders, they're more concerned about money then their customers. This is why i don't build professionally as i know most places that build PCs dont do it well, and as i used to do tech sales 20 years ago, i know that customers are just fubar, and i don't have the personality to deal with em lol.
i've never seen LTT go so hard on a review and comes out positive somewhat.
He was critical, because there are a bunch of little mistakes, but overall it seemed like a solid purchase. far better than most companies out there
18:40 is review writing at it's absolute finest. WSJ and Forbes take note.
I trust linus but he should have started the pc straight from the box only taken out the protecing stuff inside it
Exactly, as would a lot of people who do not know how to work around a computer
this^ It would've been fun to see the mobo die right away cause the power cables were having a false contact and started sparking
I don't really like nitpicking stuff, but if I pay grand money for something, I want it to be PERFECT. Linus is absolutely correct for everything he says.
Corpa Upward-Trend
Corpa SELL
You should make another video about these guys. I ordered my pc from them on October 12th and im STILL waiting. 4 delays so far what a disaster these guys and from what i've seen many others still waiting as well.
That’s crazy
@nate the oneeeee positive so far is they are replacing my 3090ti for the 4080 16gb at 0 additional cost for the inconvenience but whenever they decide to finally freaking ship it! 🤦🏻♂️
@@M4PAT Extra month for a stronger card is nothing to sneeze at at least.
@Mr. Doyle yeah it was definitely a nice upgrade so just trying to be patient.
@@ares9610 i finally got it lol. It's actually a very solid computer. They sent it with the 4080 16gb on the house for the delays.
5:02 3DMark does stress tests so you can pass or fail 3Dmark.
I have a very serious problem with comparing the price/performance of a boutique system from an SI to a DIY build. The entire reason to purchase the system from an SI is so that you are not responsible for building it yourself. The extra cost is deserved if the build quality is there because you are paying for the system to be professionally assembled, and you get a warranty on the ENTIRE PC. If you build the computer yourself and it starts having stability issues a year later, you’d better hope you are good at troubleshooting or know a good repair shop. Many repair shops also won’t work on systems that you built yourself. If the build quality and product support are up to snuff, then a system from an SI should cost about 15 - 20% more than building it yourself.
I think the worst thing on that computer is that they didn't give you all the power cables. Like you said what if someone needs molex? I know people hate that connector but you really should account for people adding stuff.
Wow, Linus came out swinging in the beginning but softened up a bit near the end. I think overall, spending over 3k its good that we have people willing to take a critical eye towards these Sis. Good job LTT
LTT’s cold opens are a glorious moment of joy in my day. Thanks for the laughs! 👏
"what are they gonna do with the mountain of modular sata cables" - sell them to a recycler. a box of random copper wire will get you $30 from a recyler. scrap metal is quite valuable
Artisian builds had a pretty good team on the east coast, It often happens that a team just continues working under a different name or for a different company. Don't judge them just because they worked for a failed business / owner.
This was a fantastic review of a new company. Kudos for being fair and giving us a solid review of the experience. Refreshing to say the least. Also OMG their logo design... WTF it really does look like male anatomy. Graphic designer brain screaming
I dunno. It's kinda on brand for Asmon. lol
You can say penis on the Internet, we are not that fragile.
@@PackinForSuperbowl And Moist is the man who helped to make a music video about semen.
@Lurch considering they drops prices to 2,999 now they are almost the cheapest prebuilt PCs on the market atm
Front panel headers really should just be a one-connector solution in this, The Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Twenty Two.
Having streamers, who would really be end-users in this case and want a perfectly built 100% Out-of-Box-Ready product, as owners also means that the executive office may always have the end-user in mind when making decisions.
I can't even express how happy I was that my motherboard came with a one step plug
These are the same motherboard manufacturers still including PS2 ports in their rear IO
Dell sometimes does them for cases, and the can work for some non Dell mobos
While I agree with you, one doesn't impact the other. Starforge is just an SI, not an actual manufacturer. If every motherboard manufacturer agreed to keep the layout the same, then it would make sense. I believe there is one case manufacturer that uses a single plug, but god-forbid you have the one motherboard with the not-so-standard Front IO layout. Though I highly doubt motherboard and case manufacturers will agree to that, because just like Apple for their iPhones, everyone has to be different.
@@TigerofRobare and very helpful that is sometimes ;) some (old and weird) bootsystems dont work so well with all the new usb chips.....
If your planning to do a another secret shopper series, please include Starforge.
7:05 linus has a screwdriver pull out animation
16:40, its even worse than just not getting their paychecks. In some cases the company actually filed a claim against their employees on paypal to take back money they had already been paid and paypal just sided with the company since they were larger.
11:32
You can preinstall programs on a windows machine and keep the OOBE. You just has to create a generalised image of a system with those programs installed.
That's how comapanies (and OEM I guess) can deploy windows machines so fast.
Source: I done it. And all laptops I bought has preinstalled progams and bloatware
@Will I was refering to the thing about not accepting the Windows agrement.
A pc installed with an image is basically unconfigured execpt a few "generalised" stuff the OEM changed. Like installing a program or something else.
I'll save you a lot of time. Use audit mode to bypass OOBE temporarily. Ctrl-Shift-F3 at OOBE and it lets you set up the PC without making an account or anything.
Don't mind this comment, it's timestamps for a school project
1:24 - Is it a good deal?
1:25 - +1 - Is it well built
1:27 - +2 - Does it work at all by the time it arrives?
1:30 - +3 - Oh and who sponsored this mess?
1:32 - +2 - Ridge!
1:33 - +1 - [Záběr na ridge]
1:35 - +2 - [Ridge v ruce]
1:38 - +3 - [Ridge do kapsy]
1:41 - +3 - [ridge na stole co se kurva děje]
1:44 - +3 - [hodně jich je na stole]
1:46 - +2 - Right nooow
1:47 - +1 - [Family guy funny moments]
With the recent OTK controversy and pretty recent Artesian controversy, it would of been super easy to just sh*t on Starforge the whole video. Glad you didn't punch down at the same time not holding back punches either. Most of us watching this video would probably build our own systems though.
I've built a lot of my own computers over the year, but I've also used Scan Computers (in the UK) for prebuilt systems before, and their service has been excellent over 30 years of using them - it definitely IS possible for a system builder to survive for the long haul, it's just a lot more work than most people think.
Scan just seem to be a really professional outfit overall, so no real surprises that their systems would be decent too.
Yes, I’m also based in the UK and Scan have been excellent in my experience, as well. I built a large Synology NAS with 12 EXOS enterprise hard drives + a very high end PC with an ASUS X670E Extreme motherboard and their service has been excellent. They shipped everything in 24 hours and it was shipped in beautifully safe packaging, their tech team also supported me with a setup question I had. They’re not the cheapest around, but their customer service and attention to good packing more than justified the small price differences.
I am not affiliated with them in any way, I’m just a satisfied customer
Are they still around? 1 year review? see if they improved?
I have that case. the power button light should be static blue for power and blink the red color when there is drive activity. So that is half correct.
Im disappointed with 0:34. A missed opportunity for "There's nothing I can do about... telling you about our sponsor".
Like the fair criticism and giving credit where credit is due. Subscribed.
that intro, had me smiling from ear to ear so much the other people at the chicken shop couldn't help but feel their stares. oh well I loved it.
OBS can be preinstalled, since it's GPL - just need a slip of paper (or a txt on the desktop I suppose) that offers source code access.