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Messi & Paoloni Hyperflex 5 Best Feed Line for Ham Radio
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Messi & Paoloni Coaxial Cable. The Best Coaxial Cable for Ham Radio
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#hamradio #pota #parksontheair
Look at them fancy charts and graphs!
I was thinking of you when I was making them lol!
@@hamradiotube lol, I hope I was wearing something pretty!
@@TheSmokinApe Just a banana hammock.
@@hamradiotube sweet…. You know I’m sitting here with some M&P cable in my cart thanks to you…
@@TheSmokinApe make sure to use that discount code. HRMM. Then spend all your Christmas money!!
Mike yr the man, this video is 2 fold promoting M&P and real world test, against several options, amazing, I own M&P coax for my non portable setup, now I will get for my portable ops, this is incredible stuff!! Hope yr Christmas will be great, 73 from LZ Land, 😉 Oh love the shirt , rock on 👍
Shine on you crazy diamond! Thanks Tom. I’m really excited to be experimenting with this coax. I never put that much thought into it until just recently but it makes total sense to use the best coax you can get your hands on. It’s literally the artery between the antenna and radio. Something you really want to have high quality and unobstructed.
Thanks for this Mike, a good reason why you should always use short lengths of coax when operating out in the field (and from home) and why money spent on top quality equipment is never wasted... Merry Christmas from the U.K.
Buy once, cry once. Quality materials tend to perform better and last longer. They also tend to not fail when you need them most. Merry Christmas.
Hi Mike & thank you for the review! :) After a long (and sometimes "painful") time using cheap feedlines for HF i decided to use M&P cables for portable ops also a few months ago - it really opened a new world - i never-ever think again of cheap coax and cheap connectors! I use a 10m (acts as a counterpoise) and a 5m length (49ft together with a simple W1JR choke in between) of the Hyperflex 5 along with my 705 and the "COMPACT 4 BAND POTA-EFHW" (proudly Made in Germany... :D ) when backpacking and the M&P Ultraflex 7 along with the DX Commander Expedition.
Awesome to hear. I think we need to get the word out about this coax in the US a bit more. Everyone talks about radios, some talk about antennas, and hardly no-one talks about coax. Especially high quality coax.
Thanks for sharing this Mike. Greatly appreciated.
Now I have some short runs within the home I will replace soon, this just confirmed it.
73 and Merry Christmas!
Fantastic!
Great video Mike. One of the Elmer’s (James Lea) I talked to when entering this hobby told me to buy the best feedline and recommended M&P. I ordered directly from the factory both cable and connectors and have not been disappointed. I have (2) other brands of cable, both 50 feet and plan to try and duplicate your tests sometime in the future after our move in April since most everything is packed in containers. Thank you again for an informative video and walking through the tests that even I should be able to reproduce.
You got some great advise early. My first coax isn't bad but its not this good. I'll be curious if you get similar results.
Good stuff. Thanks for doing those tests, appreciate it.
and for nearly saying wiggly bananas, good laugh to start the day!
Great review thanks for your time, Great help and insight.
My pleasure!
I've used M&P Hyperflex 7 for portable for a while and had good results. It was a 50ft run and sometimes aggravating to roll out and back up. I was using this with a hamstik dipole for ft8 so I wanted to get the antenna away from my truck and other metal objects. I decided to start using an EFHW Chameleon Emcomm III for a lot of portable since I could do multiple bands and ordered an 18ft M&P jumper of Hyperflex 5 to run it from the rear of my truck. Anxious to see how it performs compared to the Hyperflex 7 or RG213 I used before. Thanks for the comparison tests.
Nicely done Mike! Merry Christmas! KM4SON
Thanks Don. Merry Christmas.
Hey Mike,
Nice review Buddy, don't sweat the setup to much. For this type of comparison review your identifying your test setup and equipment, along with your consistancy of testing each cable type is important. It makes for a repeatable and transparent test.
That said your timing is perfect, I have been upgrading my coax in the shack this year. I have already upgraded my VHF/UHF cable and may now give the M&P cable a try for my HF feed lines. 🤘😎👍
Thanks bud. I tried to do it as “scientific” as possible. Now go get you some good coax! And Merry Christmas!
Good stuff amigo. Gong to watch your other M&P related videos. Wish they had a 50ft assembly.
Great Video. Looks like I'm getting new coax this spring. Also, make sure those amps are at 11.
Great demo!
Thanks for watching.
Hey Mike I enjoy the video. I am using M&P on my hf and I really do you like it. I’m really love the connectors also I like all of the shielding of the coax because I run an amplifier with a bunch of houses around me. So far I’ve had no issues with RF. Thanks for doing the video and I did like your testing. I do hope you have a very merry Christmas and stay safe.
WD5ENH
Steve
Thanks for watching Steve. I’m super excited about this coax and can’t wait to play with it on the air and do more comparisons. I’m gonna be getting some other types too so I’ll get to experiment quite a bit.
Great job on the video, nothing wrong at all with your testing and setup. The normalized loss you measured of the M&P is .838 db/100ft, which lines up well with the datasheet. You lost 1.22 dB of power on the 100W test through the 105 ft M&P cable, expected was 0.88 dB. The difference might just come down to the connectors. ~ 1/10th dB of insertion loss per connector involved is very reasonable. Honestly a butterfly could fart and vary the result by that little fraction of a dB. :)
I need to get me some of this M&P coax, good stuff.
Oh, there were some butterflies in the room lol! I would be curious how the connectors would have that much loss when power was applied. Those aren't cheap connectors either. Either way, the M&P still has the least amount of loss so more of my wigglies are getting to the antenna :). Thanks for watching, and use the discount code HRMM @ gigaparts if you do decide to purchase more. 73
So good I had to watch it again!
TeamReplay for the win
You're the best!
Great video Mike
Thanks Mike
top shirt mate
Just got 100' if hyperflex 10, this stuff is amazing. The evolution connectors are great. You weren't exaggerating this stuff is top of the line coax.
Well done, Mike!!
Thanks Ed!
I always go with Times Microwave myself, but that M & P stuff is intriguing.
Nicely done Mike. I use M&P ultraflex 7. Buy the best you can, not all of us can afford this. It boils down to how long a length of coax you need and the frequency of use. One thing I didn't see you cover is the difference on your signal meter. 6db is generally 1 s unit so in reality you won't notice any real word difference with a 2db difference. It's not even half an S point. I still stand by buying the best you can afford.
Thanks and absolutely. Spend most of your money on coax and antennas. The radio doesn't matter as much as a lot of people think. I haven't done any signal tests but thats on the way. This video was just showing losses compared to other similar cables.
Good points Colin. I always think 3dB (1/2 an s unit) is the benchmark in terms of starting to see a difference. The length of coax is also critical, with just a 20 ft or less of a run then it really seldom matters what you use for Hf in terms of loss. However, better shielding CAN sometimes mean less received noise. But going back to length, even up at 2 metres, a typical 13 foot run of rg58 for a well matched mag mount will see minimal loss.
As at my local HRO yesterday. Found out some interesting info about another brand of cable. I'll have to check out some M&P cable in the future!
Interesting. I'd be curious what you found out.
Thanks for another great video. We are on holiday up in northern Minnesota visiting my northern family. I have been wondering what cable to run for both QTH & portable. How flexible is the M&P? I have a couple runs (50’ each) of LMR400 up my tower and the bend radius on them are about a basketball (pretty stiff). Also speaking of good cable, is there a reliable online calculator to compare the various “good” coax? Oh, by the way, I had my first HF qso on 80m before we went on holiday. Thanks again for your video. Merry Christmas! 73 de KI5HXM
Great job Mike. I think told a better story by doing your loss test at 30 MHz. That said, I’m glad you made the comment about RX loss being equal to TX loss. Most hams don’t think about that.
I don't think the freq matters so much in this test. The point was more to show that the M&P coax has less loss. I'm sure it would have been the same results regardless of the freq. I did do a video on coax a while ago showing the losses at VHF/UHF freqs and those results were quite surprising. Thanks for watching. 73
One thing that is useful to mention (I might have missed it) was that there are more losses at higher frequencies. People should ideally always check the spec sheet. So if this is coax primarily for lower bands (160-40M) you can get away with lower quality coax, and the higher you go in frequency (>6M, VHF, UHF) you reallllllly want to focus on SHORT and HIGH quality coax runs. AND, yes, always avoid cheap coax...trust me, you end up not using it anyway. Quality connectors are important as well as they are part of the "system". 73
Great cable. I may want to get some for my POTA stuff. Also I k iw this is not the place, but the G-90 did good today. Tried to catch you but missed you by a few minutes
Next time we’re together you can take a look at mine. I tuned up on your freq today and couldn’t hear you.
So, with a high-powered radio, low-loss cable and connectors, and a tuned, high-gain antenna -- my voice can go places like never before! 🤣
Near the end you mentioned cutting the cable. With the current generation of their PL connectors which you have on your cable, it's possible to unscrew remove the connector body and see how the center pin is connected on the inside. You'd have to desolder the center pin to be able to see the braid though. In any case, if you're careful, the connectors are reusable.
Yeah I thought about that after the fact. I'll be getting more cable soon and I plan to do a lot more videos about coax in the future. Perhaps that may be one of them. I think it should be relatively easy with a good solder iron.
Thats very impressively looking cable. I can help but wonder what the catch is.
Marshall amp cabinets and line 6 amp head --i like it ---NICE!! 😁😁😁
It took me a long time to get that combo together and I'm really happy with it. I really like a bunch of different amps and this kind of gives them all to me. It's got the modeling from Line6 and the tube amp from Bogner. It's a highbrid amp. There is a nice floorboard to control a lot of the functions on the amp as well, or you can do everything on the face of the head.
Nothing better than the sound of a tube amp for sure.
Would the Hyperflex 5 be good for the GMRS Bands with a 50-60ft fun?
How does this compare to Times Microwave LMR400?
that great ! The M&P charts are for the coax loss not including connectors. which type of connector adds a loss. different type of PL 259 has different loss. N is a much better lower loss one. BNC is pretty good. that's why the data is off a bit when you test with PL 259 installed and go to M&P chart and off a tad. The 2 connectors adds loss to that data. 73's
I will be grabbing 50 feet of Broad-Pro 50C coax for the maximum amount of bananas to the antenna from the radio as possible ASAP. Thanks for the video showing this coax
Give all the bananas all the time!!
With all the connector options available, it's a good idea to pick ONE as your shack standard, and use adaptors as required. As a low power user, I prefer BNC.
The other thing is - don't use 100 ft of cable if you only need 40 ft. Pretty connectors do NOT make up for the loss you suffer from 60 ft of unwanted cable.
I have different coax for different antennas. Hence the different connectors on the coax. That way I don't need to worry about forgetting adapters.
Messi & Paolini has some fantastic coax, Iam using Hyperflex 10 for my main run and Hyperflex 5 for my shack jumpers and couldn't be happier.😏👍
Dont forget to factor in .5db loss for every coax adapter and fitting, regardless, M&P coax is the best available and superior to the LMR garbage everyone braggs about, next to mil-spec Belden or Amphenol silver plated, double shielded coax.
Love to get some of this stuff but its worth the price of gold.
M&p internal copper foil cracks badly when subjected to repeat bending such as rotator loops or coiling recoiling. It then becomes unreliable on VHF UHF SHF so be careful where it's used.
Nice Video Mike, but I have a question about this type of coax. I have a Yaesu FT-991a and, I'm getting ready to setup and install my first HF antenna. I will only have about a 35ft run of coax, will the Hyperflex 5 be just fine for this application?
Oh yeah. This coax will be great for that radio/setup.
Great review. I do wonder about the price/performance ratio though -for QRP mobile use I rarely use more than 10 feet of coax from the radio to the antenna, and even with RG58U that would only result in 0.15dB loss. That would mean 4.8W would get to the antenna from a 5W source, in comparison the M&P would allow 4.9W through a similar 10 foot cable. I'm not convinced the additional 100mW would make a significant difference :)
Looking at a permanent home installation where cable bulk isn't so much of a concern, there are plenty of cheaper RG213 options with better performance than Hyperflex 5. So I'm kinda confused about who this is aimed at -other than folks who need long runs of low loss coax, but can't use RG213 for some reason?
That .1 watt is gonna be the difference between making the contact and not making the contact lol! For 10' no, it's prob not going to make a difference. I use about 20' of RG316 when I'm qrp portable. Hyperflex 5 isn't competing with RG-213, but they do have coax that does. It's all about quality. I'm no expert, but in the few years I've been in this hobby I haven't heard of any better coax than M&P.
Nice..........
Thanks.
Thank you. I'm in the market for some new cable. Running QRP, I need all the help I can get
The lower the loss the more wigglies get to the antenna. Thanks for watching.
I'm interested to see how durable the jacket is once you take it out in the field. My ABR jacket tore after using it about 5 times. Have no idea what tore it. Thanks for another informative video. 73
Thats a shame. I'm certainly not gentle with my equipment so time will tell.
If Monster cable put as much copper in their cables as they did snake oil and gold, they might actually be a good cable. 😂
But M&P does make really fine cables.
I don’t know man. In the 30 years I’ve been into music I’ve had all kinds of cables fail, never once was it Monster.
You just put a fire on my ass to test all my cables with my rigexpert! Thanks!
Do it!! It's pretty fun too, not gonna lie.
I’m wondering how well it will coil when below freezing. My ABR coax and DXEngineering coax cannot be coiled when frozen. I started using RG-316 in the winter because it can be coiled when frozen.
Fortunately for me I won’t be able to test that. Interesting you say that though. I’ve not had issues with my coax in the winter in Michigan. I use rg-316 for qrp but only because it’s so small and light.
@@hamradiotube Whenever it is 20F or less here the coax gets fairly “rigid” and I actually had the outer insulator crack once. I usually have to loosely pile it in the backseat to defrost so I can coil it when I get home. I’ve moved to RG-316 for QRO and QRP because of this.
can I use a 30 foot run of this to run an hf base radio? asking because I'm a new ham and I ordered some of this cable so I can make a feed line choke. If i can use it all the way to the radio after the choke that would be awesome
Absolutely.
Thank you. KS4KY
No problem 👍
I'm wondering if testing coiled lengths vs straight runs of cable would cause any differences. I'm guessing maybe not much, but your tests were run through 100' air wound inductors and it would be interesting to experiment with that. -- K7SFA
I feel I've done it and it didn't matter. Not for what I'm testing anyway.
Nice review and thanks for sharing the info. Unfortunately Gigaparts is totally out of all Hyperflex 5, 7 , all lengths and not accepting backorders. So sad and all I have is amazon basic coax and its killing me.
I wouldn't imagine they would be out for long. I know M&P isn't out of coax.
Leaving the cable coiled up adds inductance? Would unrolling it change the results? Very good tests and reviews. Thanks Mike
I know I've tested that before but not when I filmed this video. I don't think it matters when testing length and loss. I'll try it again the next time I have the coax out.
@Steven H Only for the rf on the shield. If it was was a problem to the desired RF the ugly balun would kill the transmitted and received signals. He was using a dummy load so there should be no RF on the shield for a balun to act on.
Coiled up, the quality of shielding should affect amount of inductance. Be interesting to see the Amazon # coiled/uncoiled presuming it would have the worst shielding
The attention to quality coax cabling is very important and often overlooked. For audio cables, look past Monster, as they are over hyped, in my opinion.
I've been using Monster for over 20 years. Haven't had a need to look further.
This is outstanding information, to bad you don't have some LMR400
Thanks Paul
This would be closer to lmr240uf.
Great video, I wonder how it would match up against USA made Time's coax?
LM-400 has less loss !! If you care about this sort of thing :)
No question that M&P is good cable, but RG specs are WW2 era cable specs. Newer current specs on cables made to meet them, might not be so different from the M&P. How testing other *modern* cable types?
Nice work. Use 28 MHz to really show the differences maybe? Don’t forget that comparative losses between varying cables starts to really widen the higher in frequency that you go. 73
doubling the loss of power in Watts at double the length is wrong. Better calulate all in dB. So roughly if you get 70W of 100W at double the length you'd get 50W (not 40W). .7*.7 ;) But i see that i made a good choice on my last purchase. Merry christmas!
Ahh, that makes sense.
More wigglies and bananas!
And another great video! Thanks Mike! I too use Monster cables with my guitar rig. I just finished watching a video you did the day after Vinnie Paul died. This may be hard to believe , but Pantera took my band, Pumpjack, under their wing, and signed us to their production label. They took us out on tour with them in ‘97 for about 7 Texas shows, and convinced Sharon Osbourne to put us on the 2nd half of Ozzfest 2000. I don’t remember much from those days, lol, but I have some stories to tell. Obviously, we never went much further, but if you’re ever in Arizona, would love to have a ham and jam with you if you’re game for it…. 73!! Mark - W7MMG
Well Getcha' Pull! That is too cool. Man what an amazing time you must have had. I wonder if I was at that Ozzfest. I've been to quite a few of them around that time. I'll have to look you up if I ever make it to AZ. I may be going to Quartzfest next year but I'm not 100% sure yet.
Quality is worth paying for, but that doesn't mean Monster. You can get *better quality* than Monster at less than half the price.
@@hobbified I don’t know man. I’ve been using Monster for over 20 years now. They sound great and it’s hard to beat their warranty. To be fair, I haven’t been looking for cable in forerver. What would be comparable to Monster these days?
@@hamradiotube I am not a musician (I wish), but am an avid comment reader. It never ceases to amaze me how random people make some claim and are asked to put up or shut up, and are never heard from again.
Here for the coax education and appreciate the tests! Any update on coax preferences, lessons learned, etc?
Setting up first base station (IC 7300) and want to do it right. Have damp rainy environment at QTH, and starting out with EFHW strung reduntantly in smallish backyard.
Thanks!
73,
John - KK7JBZ
@@johnbauman4005 Yeah, what can you do? Happens all the time too. As far as coax, I'm still a huge fan of the M&P stuff. A good rule of thumb is to get the best coax you can afford. I'm also a really big fan of ABR Industries as well. They're a great coax company right here in Houston TX and their stuff is all made in the USA for what that's worth. You can give them a call and let them know what you're setting up and they'll be happy to recommend the best coax for your situation. They have absolutely amazing customer service.
try 2 coax switches @each end to do a a to b test ??
I’m thinking about doing that out in the field to A/B them.
How about getting ahold of Some Davis Bury-Flex (Can be used for rotator loop) or some ABR American made and do a actual test to see if the M&P does actually perform better? Do your family, friends and fellow hams a favor and buy AMERICAN!
Try lmr400 or rg400
I’m gonna be getting some more M&P coax but it will be equivalent to that.
This stuff costs more than my gear on a per unit basis. Po folk just have trouble pay'n the piper.
B B I on you tube has a few videos on coax cables that explain them in more detail and more kinds of cables and power ratings and loss he is a great help in radio if he can't help you he will send you to some one who can help you
Good to know, I'll check it out.
When you gonna play one of them there axes for us??? 🤓
would lmr-400 be better
You wouldn't be comparing apples to apples with this and LMR-400, though they certainly have coax that does target that line. I've not used it so I can't comment on its performance but if I do get some, I will certainly put them up against one another.
no silver plate
Looks like good stuff but it sure is expensive.
Well you know what they say, you get what you pay for.
@@hamradiotube I finally found the 50' length and that made it more reasonable. Initially all I was seeing were 1-3' pices and the 100'. Thanks for highlighting this.
It's not expensive when they send it to you for free
LMR-400 has less loss than the Italian stuff. For VHF-UHF over 50ft LMR600 is even better.
No it doesn't. You may want to check your "facts" again. I assure you, you are 100% wrong.
The numbers are right there from the link on the Gigaparts page for the Hyperflex 5 titled "Click HERE for M&P vs LMR® and ABR Coaxial Information " - LMR-400 has a loss of 0.9 db /100ft @ 50MHz , the Hyperflex 5 has a loss of 1.5 db /100ft @50 MHz.
@@dimitriapproved boy you LMR lovers are getting really butt hurt over this. So let me get this straight. You are going to compare two dissimilar coax cables and make the blanket statement that LMR is better than the “Italian” stuff? You aren’t even quoting the specs properly. Per the link: LMR 400 has a loss of 1.1dB @50 MHz at 100’. At what point in this video was I comparing Hyperflex 5 to LMR 400 and saying it was less lossy? However, for comparable size coax, you will find that M&P beats out your precious LMR. Keep writing back though. You look dumber and dumber with every comment. I would suggest actually reading and understanding what you are talking about before you do though.
not made in china
Your testing methods are flawed.
This is quite possibly the most pointless comment ever. Thanks for not providing any reasoning behind why you think my methods are flawed. Just that they are flawed.
What a load of Marketing Balogny. Tram is garbage and RG8U is milspec dc'ed 20 years ago. RG213 is the replacement
I'll stick with Belden and Times Microwave LMR400 and quality US MADE TYPE N for that absurd price for jumper grade M&P. You an get much better RX with RG11 and Nothing beats balancef feed line. Do all these freebies really get you all to say this? Or is their cash involved too. Not one of you affiliated channels are playing it straight with us. The only takeaway from this is your wise statement to don't cheap out on RG58 or RG8x.
You should have an episode on feed line length to chosen bands. That's a big deal when you waste all that power on a tuner. Sorry to be a dick but it pisses me off to get worked like a rube with these companies.
Aww, are you a sad ham?? Why don’t you do some research of your own? You’d find out that you just might be wrong about everything you think you know about coax. You should watch my other video about M&P coax too, where I show, with sources, how M&P is better than your precious LMR. This should really trigger you. Messi & Paoloni | Best Coax for Ham Radio
ruclips.net/video/UBbHIYWCl0k/видео.html