Editing to the Beat - the One Frame Trick
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- ATTENTION!!! After watching this video - make sure you check out the Addendum because there's some issues with RUclips adding an extra frame delay in audio:
• Addendum! The One Fram...
In this installment of "Just One Thing" I talk about a neat editing trick of forcing the cut one frame ahead of the beat to create a more natural feeling cut when cutting to the beat.
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ATTENTION: I made an addendum to not only address a strange issue with RUclips adding additional frame of lag in the audio. Check out the video here:
ruclips.net/video/2L6nW6uNp9k/видео.html
Getting great responses but some people have been questioning the science bit so I want to address it here instead of repeating myself over and over again. Although light does indeed travel faster than sound, there is _still_ a delay in neurological processing of sight vs sound (about 40ms in delay). You would need about 15m to make up for this delay... Less than 15m and you sense the sound _before_ the visual. Now before you start moving things around by the millisecond, it gets more complicated: the brain also knows this delay exists so it does some things to shift the experience around.
Here's a good chapter on the topic. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92837/
Ultimately this trick demonstrated in the video is not a science experiment, it is an artistic experiment that plays to the science, but it would be foolhardy to think it is science. This is about making the cut _feel_ right or feel more pleasant. Always think about the intent of the cut. Sometimes you may want to cut right on the beat, sometimes a frame before, sometimes half a second before. But the point is your cuts do matter and something as small as a frame will matter!
Yes, finally you can't beat trying it out out and seeing what feels best!
Thanks, I'll check it out. I was going to comment that there must be biology variables involved because the 1-frame-before appears early to me while the on-the-beat is perfect. Maybe my hearing is retarded ;) Glad to hear there is a better explanation!
I didn't notice much difference in your two versions. I'm on a computer with a soundbar right below my monitor, maybe 50 cm distance. Speed of sound turns out *doesn't* matter for these things, at least a 24 fps video, except maybe in move theater.
Rule of thumb i use is 340 m/s for sound, so for TV distance of 2.5 m the transmission delay is 7.35 ms while a frame at 24 fps is 41.67 ms. It's just not that significant compared to one frame. But for a movie theater, idk how far away the speakers are. If it's about 15 m distant then the transmission delay of sound is already equivalent to one frame, so what you'd effectively observe is a two-frame delay. That could definitely matter.
*EDIT:* lol just watched rectified version. I like the one frame before the beat version. Btw i have no argument about neurological delays, just wanted to point out the SOS has virtually no bearing in your home but might matter in movie theaters.
Cutting one frame ahead of the beat makes the edit feel like it is driving the music rather than the other way around. 🔥
I must be the only one that likes the music to drive the edit 😂
@@CollinAbroadcast we are not alone!!
@@andrewdevasir For real. I like picking a mood for the song and then trying to edit to the song. Each edit comes out in its own style, it's great
Collin Abroadcast me too
That is exactly why the "right version" feels off to me. It's the music that should drive the edits in this case. I'd even try to cut one frame AFTER the beats.
Not to be one of “those people” but I think all beats matter. Meaning, when I’m doing my absolute passion work. I’ll place the cut where it “feels” best. Some cuts feel best right on the beat. Some cuts feel better a frame before, a frame after, etc. That also has to do with the audio beat sometimes landing in the middle of the frame, or the first 1/3rd of the frame, or any number of fractions. Music and beats in videos can get meticulous real fast. Haha
Agreed. The jump cut rule can be shifted and applied on a song-by-song or even a cut-by-cut basis for the best final effect. In reality, most of the viewers won't "feel" the difference anyway if it's only a 1-frame difference. As producers/editors we often obsess over the craziest (smallest) of things.
@@MoniJohnson Well it depends on the bpm and fps of the video. Auditory response time is around 8-12 ms whereas visual response is about 20-40ms. You offset it so it matches in your brain, at 24 fps its 41.6ms per frame. That, however, doesn't happen if there's a second beat or off-beat in between. Then, it feels jarring, cause your brain can't match the cut to a particular beat, because it has more or less two to choose. But overall, this is more applicable when cutting on a loud sound, not so much in music videos. Always rubs me the wrong way, when cutting to the beat in a music video is just cutting on a loud sound, no respect is given to musical structure. Why do cut on the snare of the 2 3/4 beat?
This technique is good to know, however, in my experience is more the actual listening careful to the beat with the ear instead of totally reference if by the waveform, of course the waveform will give you a point of reference but at the end, to have a curated cut, you will have to experiment until you got it, sometimes it will be 1 frame before, sometimes at the exact waveform peak and sometimes after
Yeah the other parts to the song as well. Editing to the guitar rift, the bass, etc. or framing movement to the beat instead of cutting.
I find that true especially with clips that are fast in motion that is another effect that marrys to the feel
I'm more of a musician and can't help but focus on the music over the visuals. I'm feeling more how the visuals work musically than how the music impacts the visuals. 1/24th of a second is a significant and very noticeable unit of time musically.
The early frame feels musical --- it's kind of like a reverse cymbal pulling into the beat. It adds oomph and groove when it hits on the downbeats, it makes the music better. The on-the-beat edits feel jarring and unnatural. If you think about watching a band, you see the drummer swing his arm down, then you hear the hit. You see the guitarist start to flick his hand down, then you hear the strum.
When do you see and hear at the exact same time? When you're blindsided, when you don't have an accurate understanding of your environment. You don't hear the rock tumbling down the mountainside (then see it), you don't see the rock teetering on the cliff (then hear it), you see and hear the rock at the exact same time as it hits you in the face.
The early cut maintains a level of comfort, of flow, it's more musical, more natural.
The on-the-beat cut could be used to emphasize unease, jarring opposites, surprise, the unnatural.
Yup, like Chris said ^^
Great comment Chris, very intelligent insights and good analogy. Peace.
Also a musician and editor, and you put my thoughts into words perfectly!
I must be anomalous. When watching the video the first time it felt "off" to me. I could tell the cuts were early and just figured you had a track where the BPM didn't synch well with the frame rate and you just had to pick between early/late.
Maybe I anticipate the cuts, but the "on beat" version is the one that felt correct to me. Go figure!
the difference that bpm makes with the framerates that are commonly used is as significant, if not bigger, than the technique in this video (imo)
Same sensation, it felt off sync to me, I could "clap my hands" on the image swap with the synced cut, but not on the early frame cut and that felt weird
This exercise isn't about being synchronous with the beat. Because it clearly isn't. This is about making it more pleasant cut which I think it absolutely does.
You guys are free to think otherwise. but I would also warn that many of you probably wouldn't even notice if I didn't mention it.
@@FilmmakerIQ Absolutely see your point. As I said in my original post *I* must be anomalous. Probably for the vast majority of people the "cut early" is more pleasing. I'm an editor and have to cut to music often, and, of course, the episode title let us know this was about cutting to audio, so I went in primed and alert in "deconstruct" mode. Otherwise, well, yeah, probably would have ignored anything that seemed "off" to me as BPM variation.
Anyways, John, great video, great discussion and thanks for what you do.
To me none of the Versions felt off... they just feel differnt. The early one felt a little bit relaxed vs the on beat. The relaxed felt off at the shortcutting part in the last third of the track as I watched it first. But with the mention and repeated watch it blures totaly to me.
Big thanks for your contend John!
I feel it's subjective, this trick is not necessarily better, if it feels good do it, if it doesn't, don't.
I definitely think the on frame cuts seem more impactful. I think this music could use a mixture of both cuts to emphasize certain notes.
RUclips has additionally added one frame of delay so the on the cut are actually the one frame ones.
@@demp11 Why would the RUclips audio be out of sync by a frame? I'm on mobile so I can't check whether it actually is in this video or not but I don't know why it would be.
@@CEmanified Don't know maybe it has a reason or it's just a technical issue. he made a post on RUclips about this and the technique being used in the batman trailer.
The frame latency is a result of the encoding.
i agree. the on the frame cuts feel more like jump cuts, the one frame ahead cuts feel more... fluent.
I can't even thank you enough for this, I'm currently making a title sequence and this really helps. THANK YOU.
My brain registers that the scene is changing "early", but it takes a split second for my brain to process the new image and make sense of it. With the "one frame early" approach, my brain's conceptual resolution of the new image coincides with the sound impact even though, when I'm paying close attention, I can see that the picture switches a touch early. When it's in sync, my brain registering "CHANGE!" happens at the same time, but there is a split second where my brain is asking "ok, but what's the image now?" while the beat is already past. It's more effective if your brain registers the new scene at the moment of the beat rather than registering that there is a change of SOME KIND with the beat, but not being able to resolve it until after the fact.
Long winded, but that is what it feels like to me.
I get what you're driving at - that's what I mean with the ricochet feel.
When I started in post production, we used tape, and occasionally there'd be a single-line dropout in a 25fps PAL interlaced video - i.e. a single line lasting 1/50th of a second. When I started, I literally couldn't see it, when everyone (more experienced) else could. Over time I could easily see them, as well as many other artefacts that occur very briefly. This made me conclude that you can train the senses to be "better". A similar thing happens with hearing for musicians and sound engineers, and with taste, for chefs and winemakers.
The most profound thing I have learnd in a looooooong time... The kind of possibility a single frame opens up ! Whoooa... This is almost on a spiritual level... Thank you ! 🙏🏼✌🏼😊👍🏼
I love this. This was the answer to a question that had almost formed in my primitive head. Thanks John, you will now forever live in my edits.
The thing I love so much about filmmaking is what an incredibly technical art form it is. Not to say that other art forms are not technical, but the need to account for a plethora of minute settings and details, even down to a single frame, just to attain something that is aesthetically pleasing on a basic level is really cool and interesting, and I love doing it!
After years of editing this is the most amazing and effective (and easiest) technique I have ever seen! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!! A thousand thumbs up!
Thank You! I’ve been fascinated by the technique for a while now, and it’s really nice knowing how to implement it properly.
Been doing this for years. The image is the predominate source, and by cutting the video a frame earlier, the music( or sound) punctuates and reinforces the impact of the video cut... sort of like a rim shot. Works really well for sfx, such as explosions and crashes, anything with a significant image content transition....try it.
Likewise, cutting the image one frame late of audio is easily detected and seems totally out of sync and jarring.
Wish you had shown this as an example.
rim shot xD
You deserve endless subscribers! You are so talented/intelligent and I love your videos, especially the informative and historical ones. Thank you for sharing this tip and your knowledge with us! Never stop filmmaking, you’re one of the best 👊
Wow. I mean, seriously, wow.
This is absolutely amazing.
It reminds me of many music writing tricks and concepts to give more of a punch, or bounce, making the piece more exuberant.
Syncopation absolutely rules.
Wow, thank you for the in depth look. Who would have thought!
Love this, first time I’ve ever heard this and it’s noticeably better. Appreciate the video!
It's awesome to find out how us editors can seamlessly edit and create fully synchronized sequences. Stay safe and keep it up!
There isn’t an emoji that displays the wonderful feelings that have come over me. This is gold. Thank you. I really mean that. ✌️❤️😀
Cutting on the beat or a frame, even a few before, depends on what is shown before or after. Composition, subject, and movement or lack of, mostly play into when to cut, even with music videos. It's finding when the action in the frame best matches the music. For instance, "the cut on the beat" example looked jarring because the shot at 2:19 is a wide landscape shot with your eye's looking in the center, and when cut to the next frame at 2:21 the viewers eye's are forced to the right third of the frame looking at the tree or even at the peak of the mountain - breaking Walter Murch's Eye Trace technique. In this example you're right to massage the cut by a frame to reduce the jarring cut - but don't just cut one frame early everytime because it sometimes feels right. Overall love the channel and can't wait to see more videos.
Great tip, John! I never thought about giving the eyes a head start.
This was great. That dissonance between sound and image creating a perfect match was something I'll throw in my edits.
Amazing tip! I’m glad I found this channel. Thank you!
With a heavy beat like this music, cutting one frame early makes it feel like the beat LANDS on the cut, as opposed to cutting right on the beat makes it feel like the cut JUMPS on the beat, if that makes any sense. For my taste, the first works better, with this music. If it were a cymbal crash for the cut, I suspect I'd go the other way, wanting that lighter feel.
This is one of the most interesting things I've seen lately. Thanks!
Great point. I think it's like fireworks, we are used to getting the visual information before the audio for large visual changes
Exacty what I was thinking.
The best tips are the ones you didn't know you needed and this is one I will be using from this day forward.
New things I learned today that can bring drastic change. Thanks a lot 🙏
This is pure gold. Thanks !
Thank you, never actually thought about this difference, great examples
Thanks for sharing! Always learning something new!
The frame-early cut is surprisingly more pleasing and less jarring. Thanks for this one thing. I’m definitely gonna use it.
I hv been thinking of this whole time... u cleared it out absolutely.. thanks so much
I discover this by error and trial, now with your explanation it all makes sense, Thank you
Very helpful. Have been cutting to the beat in the past.
Dunno about others but edit to the beat is perfect to my eye and I was always doing that, while one frame before creates a weird dissonance effect to me, so ... :)
Exactly what I thought.
Thank you! This was easy to find and incredibly helpful. Love the "human" explanation.
Dude! Thannk you very much for this, I've editing for a relatively long time but never heard of this. It makes so much sense!!!
Great tip! Just went through a video I'm working on and just this one change makes a pretty big difference. Thanks!
Thank you, this is very helpful to me as I love this type of cut.
This is new to me and will surely try the one frame before the beats drop! Thank you!
I think there's also a thing with subtitles. When I put subtitles exactly when the person speaks and stopped, it just felt kinda off. So I tend to put the subtitles earlier.
great work, brilliant in-depth explanation - loved it ✌️
THANK YOU! Awesome info
OMFG, it makes so much sense! Thank you! Cut feel smoother this way.
Oh, yeah! It is really much "smoother" to watch with frame-ahead. Thanks! I'll use it in my editing now
You definitely helped out my future edits by making this video thank you so much for uploading this
Really good example for beginning editors!
As a long experienced editor myself, I’ve edited several videos to music and I edit with a mix of on or ahead of the beat. There isn’t really a one edit fits all for me. It depends on the music, the rhythm, the shots, and the build-up between music and the shots. Sometimes an edit before the beat makes the shot more powerful and then editing on the beat for the subsequent shots lets the visual rhythm continue with the music. And then from there I break up the rhythm of the edits a little bit.
So I think a mix of both can make the editing most effective, but that’s just how I feel.
Indeed, and very well put. Nothing is more annoying than editors being lazy regarding the power of music and audio; the many ways music and audio impact us emotionally and psychologically is profound.
It’s not to say that John is wrong or anything. All of the different techniques of production, and indeed post, are meant to complement each other and no one method is really right or wrong, better or worse. The video makes a good suggestion for editing music videos a slightly different way, but whether to use the technique is entirely up to the artist, or editor. It’s just another tool in the toolbox. It’s a mix of dictating the video with the editing and the audio together.
It is indeed amazing how only a frame or so can make a difference. Like many have also said I go with what feels right and tend to mix it up as well.
This is mind blowing😍 thanks for this !
Interesting... this is the kind of little tip that takes a whole life experience to note, it could mean a priceless change in editing as a whole. Thank you.
Thank you very much!
In my videos _timing is of the _*_utmost_*_ importance!_
I had the feeling, that I did not always get it _exactly_ right, and I _just could not figure out_ what my problem was.
This video is _very helpful!_
_Thanks again!_
I love this channel so much
This was so helpful thanks for making this☺️🙌
I really like these short videos!
Really great video sir thank you
So suttle but definitely gives a more natural feel to the changing clip. I've considered it before while mixing and could feel that it mattered but until you painted the picture I just messed with moving them up/back and watching several times to get that feeling just right. Now I know AND understand! Great topic. Thanks!
Thank you for the amazing tip!
I don't know, I'm on the fence. Sometimes with the 1 frame early cut I thought "oh, they kind of missed that cut a bit" and sometimes I thought "ooh, that was nice."
But it was the same for the on-beat cuts too. I think the 1 beat early cuts sometimes felt like a punch in the face before the music caught up. I think cutting on beat never felt as nice as the good feeling early cuts, but never felt as bad as the worst cuts 1 beat early.
I never want to take a prescriptive attitude with these things - it's never an "always do this" - sometimes having a beat drive the cut feels right in the moment, sometimes it doesn't. That's why editing is such an art :)
@@FilmmakerIQ Oh certainly, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was just interested to note that on the same cuts, the very same cuts watched over and over, my perception of them would change.
Looking at it from the audio side you need to know and adjust the cut to the attack of the beat/sound as well. That is probably why this technique will not always feel right.
Watching the same cut over and over again is also a real danger - sometimes you don't see the problem until you can watch it from a father back - seeing the cut in context with the surrounding cuts...
I felt the same with the consecutive cuts.
I started noticing this a few months ago. Totally agree. 1 frame creates the illusion of synchronization. 👍
Thank you so much for this tip! So many times I've been editing and I think 'that just doesn't seem right' but then I look at my waveforms and think that it's edited on the beat so it must be. In my current edit, I just shifted a lot of cuts back a frame and it flows so much better!
This first video ive seen from this man has made me subscribe to him.... Excellent video... You have a new fan..
Thank you
Wow I didn't know this had a name. I've been unknowingly doing this, but now that I know why it makes so much more sense. Great video
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing!
That's very true, I realized at the end of the video, great explanation
Great tip! Looking to incorporate this next time I'm doing something like this. Thanks!
I started doing this when I first taught myself how to edit. I edited based on “feeling” and realized that the cuts that were just a frame early felt better. Didn’t realize this was a more formalized method that other editors did!
Slick trick. This is great!
Simple but great tip! Thanks!
This is great. Very useful tip and communicated well
What I noticed was that when you cut before the beat, the transition was smoother, and for something where you need to emphasise the visuals instead of the audio it worked better. When the cut was directly on the beat it made the beat stand out a lot more which would be better for a music video, which is what I mainly shoot. It’s interesting that the guy who taught you this worked on music videos. Good info though, and this will be useful as an extra option for me.
Thank You sooooo much! this will help me a lot.
Super interesting study, thank you. After you taught us what to watch for either of them feel contrived, like when we say a word too many times and it doesn't sound like a real word anymore, but the intro sequence definitely feels impactful.
Thanks so much for this! the almost back to back comparisons at around 5:00 showcases it best. one frame before gave the cuts a lot more weight
never to old to learn , alway cut on the beat , but never cut 1 frame back , definite improvement , thanks
Very subtle but there is a difference, thanks!
Thankyou for sharing this 🙏🏽
That's wild. The difference is quite noticeable once you know to look for it.
Awesome techniq thank you
Wow. That is amazing!
Didn't know this. Thank you!
Genius. The struggle finally ends.
Thank you
😇
Cutting on beat makes cuts more noticeable, its to jumpy and exciting almost like you try to scare the audience with next scene. Adding one frame makes it smoother, easier on the eye. Like you said video and sound work more in harmony that way. That is what i was able to see. Great trick!
I love this channel.
Thank you, sir! This has been very helpful!
Such an awesome tip. thanks so much.
Learnt something today! Thanks!
Great tip. I will be using it on my next video
im always amazed by all the ways to cut and link shots, from shooting to editing it's just deceptively complex the way you can link shots.
moving objects
colours
moment of camera
sound
music
and much much more, good video ill have to play with what frame to cut on
This explains A LOT. Thanks.
watch the follow up vid in the description - it adds a lot :)
Thank you so much for this!!!
Very helpful. Thank you!
That's crazy man I've been doing this by pure instinct for quite a while and didn't know it was even a thing. You kinda give me a bit more security that what I'm doing in not a crazy wack weird thing haha thanks for this and all your tips bro. Keep it up, great work.
Thank you. I've been cutting scene transitions right on the beat spikes because it seemed logical, but it never 'felt' right when watching it. Now I know why
Wow man, Impressed 💯
Very insightful. Thanks!
Fantastic knowledge