1 smg was worth 2 bolt actions imo. As the finn ambush tactics worked on speed and yeets.... a bare bones smg will shred a conscript or two same as a volley mosins.
@@AH-if8ik Me too. Only after 10 sec I realized he meant children. But if your chillin in your trench with some weed, you should still be able to use and maintain your gun. :D
Back when my dad was in the army, around the time they started implementing the RK62 into service. His rookie time he had been using the mosin in training and their corporals had the M44 because it was lighter. When dad got promoted to a corporal he got the RK62 and was kinda pissed cause he didnt get the light to carry M44
@@prfwrx2497 The RK is a larger rifle that needs to contain a more powerful round, made from milled steel instead of sheet steel. I don't see why that should be surprising.
Once again, Ian posts a video of a Finnish gun, and once again I am here to urge you to like and comment for engagement! I've never had the opportunity to hold this gun even during conscription, but these "Pelti-heikki" guns are pretty famous. The OY in Ammus OY is an acronym for "Osakeyhtiö", an LLC, so Ammus OY = Ammus LLC.
@@foleymaj Projectile or a bullet (luoti) would be part of the ammunition (ammus/panos/ampumatarvike). Projectile is the part that leaves the barrel. Although in Finland artillery uses "ammus" for the flying part and in english "shell" is used. As a comparison a finnish "ammusvarasto" would be "ammunition storage", ammunition consiting of all kinds of ammunition for both light arms and artillery. And as it can be surmised that the company produced both kind of munitions, "Ammus" is an appropriate name.
@@alaric_ Which is why I resent the translation of "ammunition", as that is a plural. Ammus would be a projectile, a cartridge or whatever. Maybe there's no good translation. Let's go with a singular form of ammunition, how about that?
I hope everyone appreciates that Ian has studied this information in detail recently, absorbed and thought about it, and planned out his approach . . . then just sat down and free-styled it for our entertainment. You can't really understand how hard he has had to work his brain, unless you have tried this yourself. This is real work.
@@lairdcummings9092My sympathy, our family changed our name a bit just before the Civil War in a disagreement over politics. Family, can't make 'em behave, don't own a backhoe.
Wonder what Interarms did with all those carcanos and obsolete machine guns? Sold the on the surplus market in America? And where did they get all those sten guns from? I wonder who got the better deal there.
What Ian forgot to tell about the users of this particular type of gun was also finnish border guards. They got alot of hardware from finnish military that the army didn't need. My father who was one of the border guards from the early 60's all the way to end 80's, told me the same notion that Ian had, that he preferred the M44 over the Suomi or a rifle in the long ski or foot patrols the border guards would do around the border zones.
Owing to the Russian philosophy on arms design, the PPS-43 wasn't perfect, but it simply didn't need to be. It was good enough. It earned the most prestigious accolade any military weapon can, and the Finnish thought so too.
An old former German soldier told me that he was shot from about 25 meter with a Sten, 5 shots spread as wide as a closed fist. He said that the Sten was precise enough. Today a soldier is required to shoot from point blank to 400 meters and hit every time with a low spread as possible, due to collateral damage. In WW2 the question was, are they ours, if no, then shoot to kill maim or let them hide, 1MOA was not necessary then. If it was needed it then You called the sniper, or to keep their heads down, an mg with a lot of ammo. If a soldier in combat could get 5 shots in semiauto in 1ft at 25m they where very good shooters, good enough to send to the front. 3 feet circle with 10 shots in full auto at 25meters perfect! All this In combat conditions. The thing is pinpoint accuracy was not so much to strive for in a SMG, during the WW2.
@@chadthundercock5641 hmmm a lot of words was lost from my brain to my finger, sorry for that, when I just NOW read it, it was rambling words. I tried now to tidy up a bit. My point was to be, that extreme accuracy that they want today was not needed in an SMG in WW2.
I believe Suomi m31 was still used at coastal artillery forts until late 90's. Not in conscript use, but as reserve weapons for limited use. Even Maxim MG's. I heard this from others serving same time. Unfortunately I was having some sort of influenza, when they were introduced these weapons. I served in Russarö II/97.
1:50 Just a quick sidenote: "Oy" is actually an acronym of "osakeyhtiö" (limited liability company) and as such the equivalent of the English abbrevations "inc" and "ltd". That's why it's pronounced as two separate syllables. If you know IPA, it'll be /'o:.y:/, while an English approximation would be "awe-you".
About the finnish Sten Guns straight from finnish Wikipedia and cursed by Google translate: At the end of the 1950s, the Finnish army exchanged a batch of obsolete and prey boot weapons with Interarms for 75,000 pieces, mostly Mk.III Stens, each gun also came with five magazines. The stens were renovated in Finland at the Kuopio depot, their bent parts were straightened, strap loops were made in them, the tip of the ejector was shaped according to the Finnish cartridge, the cartridge case was extended and the weapons were blue. After the renovation, they were stored for commissioning. They were used in service to a small extent, mainly as training weapons, for example by combat divers. The title of the Finnish army was 9.00 for Sten II and 9.00 for Sten III.
Names used in 1960s manuals are Konepistooli 42 for Mk. II STEN and Konepistooli 43 for Mk. III. (That is to say Submachine gun 42 and Submachine gun 43)
We were still taught the basics of M31 at the end of the 80's when I did my national service in guerilla/ranger type troops. No sign of M44's or Stens, M31 outlived both of them.
The "Oy" in Ammus Oy is just short for "Osakeyhtiö" which means stock company in English and isn't pronounced as one "oy" but separately "o y". And "Ammus" is ammunition in English.
After the wars they made showerheads and such. There are hilarious print ads from that time showing a naked lady in a shower with "Ammus-Sytytin Oy" written in bold letters.
@@rob119490 breaking an acog isn't that hard. You can do that by fumbling and dropping it. Pretty sure this would survive a few more oopsie drop tests.
The PPS-43 has always fascinated me because first production was in Leningrad during the siege. They were stripping metal from bombed out cars, broken bicycles, etc, so the production was an incredible feat of human resilience. I had no idea it birthed the Swedish K, this Finnish gun or the Spanish copies. I guess I always placed it in the same category of last-ditch "works most of the time" guns like the Sten. Now I know better.
My father got to use both a Suomi M31 and a Sten when he served his conscription in the 1970s, he said the Sten was such a horrendous piece of junk that when you've emptied the magazine you just throw the entire gun away and get a new one because the gun is not even worth the trouble of changing the magazine.
Great story at the end there. Funny how a captured weapon/design that in its mother country was deemed good enough, inspired a copy in Finland that then ended up in Spain 15 years later and then that ended up in Germany. That is some interesting and cool backstory.
That beep scared me abit, I was stretching a bit and the beep coincided with a sharp inhalation 😅 Got a little worried I had burst a vein in my head or something 😅
I Love your videos, they are so educational and entertaining. They Remind me of when I used to watch the history Channel with my Dad, just less aliens.
@@william6072 KP31 and 44 had box magazines, 20 round mags being the most common. What Ian is saying is that Swedish mag replaced the 50 round casket mag (which was terribly unreliable) in '53.
+ Christian Wheilbreit I have heard that in russia there is 5 milj non-straight ppl. As much as people totally in Finland. So...is it good or bad...whatever...
"Valmet wasn't interested" -- As one viewer already noted, Valmet was only founded in 1946, so it wouldn't have been a contender. However, Valmet ("Valtion metallitehtaat" = State Metal Factories) was a conglomerate formed from several formerly separate state-owned companies including the "Valtion tykkitehdas" (State cannon foundry) and "Valtion kivääritehdas" (State Rifle Factory) or VKT, which at the time produced most of Finland's domestic military small arms with the exception of the m/31 Suomi and the m/44, which were produced by Tikkakoski. Why VKT didn't produce the m/44 is a mystery, but they may have been fully occupied producing arms requiring extensive machining (m/35 pistols, m/40 20mm twin AA cannon, barrels for the m/39 rifle etc.) and ammunition to be interested in setting up a sheet-metal pressing shop. Also, their operations had been dispersed from the original Tourula factory to several safer locations (including underground tunnels) to avoid Russian bombing, so they may have had space problems. Incidentally, the name "Tikkakoski" is a compound of the Finnish words "tikka" (woodpecker) and "koski" (rapids); it is not Polish, though the ending might suggest so.
Just about every army in Europe began the war with the majority of it's troops armed with the equivalent of WW1 rifles. As the war progressed, everyone was looking to increase the firepower of it's soldiers. Especially true in Finland, with it's limited manpower; issuing more automatic weapons for increased firepower to make up for shrinking manpower reserves. Germany did the same thing with it's "Volksgrenadier" infantry divisions it began forming in 1944. The number of men in the divisions had been reduced, but they were equipped with a higher percentage of automatic weapons; including whole platoons armed with MP-40 submachine guns and STG44 assault rifles.
Sako is making new rifle that is based in ar10/15 model 7.62 NATO cal semi auto for Finnish defence forces. There is a version for snipers that replace dragunov and other more simple version for infantry support purpose.
Suomi m31's were still in stores for close defence weapons for coastal artillery in late 1980's when I served in the army. Never actually saw any Stens around at the time. As I know all m31's were retired in early 1990's when Finland bought HUGE amounts of AK's very cheaply from previous East Germany (DDR) and China (?). Luckily many of the DDR inventory-weapons still used same ammo (7.62mm) which is still Finnish military standard caliber today 2021. Very good cartridge I have to say after hundreds of rounds, but recoil is quite heavy for anything close-combat :(
A friend of mine has one of theses that I got to shoot for a bit. For legality reasons it was sold to him as semi auto only and had the stock tack welded closed. Was super fun to shoot, had basically no recoil. I'd call it a plinking gun.
Don't mean to nitpick. But the Russian PPS-43's were chambered for the 7.62 X 25 cartridge. These Finnish MP 44's, for 9 x 19, (Luger cartridge). This could be quite confusing to the folks who would think a CG 45 mag, would work in a original PPS-43.
If you could travel back to 1935 and mass produce any smg of the next 10 years in prep to sell when WWII broke out. Which design would tou go for as the best? Owen, Suomi, Italian?
Ive always looked at the PPS-43 and derivatives as, not the weapon they wanted, but the weapon they needed. The Sten and Sterling also fit that description, they're cheap and crude, and just work.
The Sterling is a Cadillac compared to the average Sten. One could compare the Sten to a Yugo - something that has the general feeling and quality of being assembled at gunpoint, which it kinda has if you really think about the situation during 1940.
@@HustleMuscleGhias What I'm saying is that all these weapons are simple and cheap to build. Its not a super fancy gun with tons of machined parts and stupid tight tolerances. The M3 also fits that description. Its not the weapon they wanted, it was the weapon they needed. They just work, can be built cheap and are reliable to a fault. Whats not to love about any of them?
Great video once again I know its possible, but it would seem incredibly inefficient if the bolt and the bolt handle were one piece of material, would have imagined that it was dovetailed in ?
Great history, you cant find this shit anywhere. One point, when you see "OY" or "OYJ" it means like "ltd", or "gmbh", Literally "OsakeYhtiö" and "JulkinenOsakeYhtiö", "StockCompany", and "PublicStockCompany" "AB" is same in swedish, "AktieBolag" For example the finnish lock company ABLOY is just, "Aktie Bolag Lukko(lock) Osake Yhtiö". Point being, its not a word, it is an abbreviation. So you say it "oo-yy", like one would say "UU ES EI" "Ammus" means "munition".
HAH! Hearing Ian say Ammus Oy as if Oy was a word was rather funny. For anyone wondering, it's pronounced O. Y. as separate letters because it's shorthand for "osakeyhtiö"=stock company or limited company. The mixup is understandable with them capitalizing the first letter of a compound word.
Any idea how the bolt handle would be machined "as one" with the bolt? Most of the bolt looks lathe turned then milled - I can't see an easy way to do the handle. Plus the initial steel billet would have to be much bigger with an integrated bolt handle.
Appears the blind end of the bolt handle has a degree of dovetail to it. Perhaps the handle is press fitted with a taper and dovetail, then surfaced off into tolerance hiding any seams? 🤷🏼♂️
But you're entirely right. That would be an obscenely large blank to start with for the ending diameter of the bolt itself. The story is already that raw materials were hard to procure, no way that amount of waste would have been allowed. (Both in materials and time)
...small correction 🙂 The charging handel tap with the bolt is not machined to the bolt, it is separate part attached to finely grooved slot on the bolt. The safety feature with the bolt stop is a Finnish design addition to the original Soviet design, which didn't have one. Recoil is nominal, firing speed is slow enough to shoot double taps and even single shots. If you have enough muscles, you can manage it just fine with one hand too 🤗
“In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away,.” Antoine de Saint Exupéry
Now Ian, look that bolt over better, looking at machining marks, handle must have been added, silver soldered, hydrogen brazed, spot welded or something. Hey I love your videos. If I wasn't a law abider I would be dangerous. Have a bit of machine shop equipment, if I could just cut rifling. Ok. I could if I wanted to bad enough. Thanks for the video.
Forgotten Weapons is a key part of a well balanced breakfast.
give us this day our daily lead :):)
Yeah, plenty of Iron
indeed
@@Disinterested1 lmao
choked down a dry eggo waffle with a swig of cherry Dr. Pepper (god's nectar) as I read your comment. Couldn't agree more, I love this channel
The m/44 was given a nickname ”Peltiheikki”, which directly translates to ”sheet metal Heikki” (Heikki being a Finnish name)
Hank
Yank.
pelt hank :D
Tin-Henry equals Pelti-Heikki
@@vaahtobileet :DDDD
Engineering excellence: stripped down to the barest essentials, with nothing left to take away. Simplicity exemplified.
For wartime economy simplicity is not enough. You also need to make sure that the design can be assembled by chil... i mean unqualified personnel.
@@ntrf-xyz thought this was going to say "chill soldiers" before re-reading it xd
1 smg was worth 2 bolt actions imo. As the finn ambush tactics worked on speed and yeets.... a bare bones smg will shred a conscript or two same as a volley mosins.
@@AH-if8ik Me too. Only after 10 sec I realized he meant children. But if your chillin in your trench with some weed, you should still be able to use and maintain your gun. :D
Finland : invent Suomi
Soviet : copies. build PPD40, PPSH 41
Soviet : improve PPSH41, invent PPS 42
Finland : copies. build M44
meh.
Back when my dad was in the army, around the time they started implementing the RK62 into service. His rookie time he had been using the mosin in training and their corporals had the M44 because it was lighter. When dad got promoted to a corporal he got the RK62 and was kinda pissed cause he didnt get the light to carry M44
@@prfwrx2497 The RK is a larger rifle that needs to contain a more powerful round, made from milled steel instead of sheet steel. I don't see why that should be surprising.
Once again, Ian posts a video of a Finnish gun, and once again I am here to urge you to like and comment for engagement!
I've never had the opportunity to hold this gun even during conscription, but these "Pelti-heikki" guns are pretty famous.
The OY in Ammus OY is an acronym for "Osakeyhtiö", an LLC, so Ammus OY = Ammus LLC.
And "Ammus" would probably be best translated as "projectile"
@@foleymaj or Ammunition
@@foleymaj Projectile or a bullet (luoti) would be part of the ammunition (ammus/panos/ampumatarvike). Projectile is the part that leaves the barrel. Although in Finland artillery uses "ammus" for the flying part and in english "shell" is used.
As a comparison a finnish "ammusvarasto" would be "ammunition storage", ammunition consiting of all kinds of ammunition for both light arms and artillery.
And as it can be surmised that the company produced both kind of munitions, "Ammus" is an appropriate name.
@@alaric_ Which is why I resent the translation of "ammunition", as that is a plural. Ammus would be a projectile, a cartridge or whatever.
Maybe there's no good translation. Let's go with a singular form of ammunition, how about that?
I hope everyone appreciates that Ian has studied this information in detail recently, absorbed and thought about it, and planned out his approach . . . then just sat down and free-styled it for our entertainment.
You can't really understand how hard he has had to work his brain, unless you have tried this yourself. This is real work.
The Sten Interarms deal takes that "Lowest bidder" thing to a whole new level.
This is also why the IDF barely had any Galils
Sam Cummings.
Distant (not super distant) cousin of mine. Not exactly my favorite person.
@@lairdcummings9092My sympathy, our family changed our name a bit just before the Civil War in a disagreement over politics. Family, can't make 'em behave, don't own a backhoe.
@@RonOhio and renting one is expensive.
Yep.
Wonder what Interarms did with all those carcanos and obsolete machine guns? Sold the on the surplus market in America? And where did they get all those sten guns from? I wonder who got the better deal there.
What Ian forgot to tell about the users of this particular type of gun was also finnish border guards. They got alot of hardware from finnish military that the army didn't need. My father who was one of the border guards from the early 60's all the way to end 80's, told me the same notion that Ian had, that he preferred the M44 over the Suomi or a rifle in the long ski or foot patrols the border guards would do around the border zones.
That was an extremely satisfying 'clack' when the folding stock was opened. Extremely 'clacky'. Love it
Clacky, snappy parts are underrated. It is like a mechanical keyboard, but better.
We call that 'tactility'.
A good gun makes a good clickity-clack. This is law.
Owing to the Russian philosophy on arms design, the PPS-43 wasn't perfect, but it simply didn't need to be. It was good enough. It earned the most prestigious accolade any military weapon can, and the Finnish thought so too.
"If it wasn't broke, don't fix it"
Wait, wrong gun lol
An old former German soldier told me that he was shot from about 25 meter with a Sten, 5 shots spread as wide as a closed fist. He said that the Sten was precise enough. Today a soldier is required to shoot from point blank to 400 meters and hit every time with a low spread as possible, due to collateral damage. In WW2 the question was, are they ours, if no, then shoot to kill maim or let them hide, 1MOA was not necessary then. If it was needed it then You called the sniper, or to keep their heads down, an mg with a lot of ammo. If a soldier in combat could get 5 shots in semiauto in 1ft at 25m they where very good shooters, good enough to send to the front. 3 feet circle with 10 shots in full auto at 25meters perfect! All this In combat conditions. The thing is pinpoint accuracy was not so much to strive for in a SMG, during the WW2.
@@dmg4415 Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
And still somehow german "perfect and overquality" guns mostly are not better than "good enough and low/middle" quality" soviet guns....... >_>
@@chadthundercock5641 hmmm a lot of words was lost from my brain to my finger, sorry for that, when I just NOW read it, it was rambling words. I tried now to tidy up a bit. My point was to be, that extreme accuracy that they want today was not needed in an SMG in WW2.
So that's where the Stens came. They were retired quite late. But then again, NCO school still taught the Suomi in the late 80s. If it works...
All the great guns are good for Janis Petke purposes
I believe Suomi m31 was still used at coastal artillery forts until late 90's. Not in conscript use, but as reserve weapons for limited use. Even Maxim MG's. I heard this from others serving same time. Unfortunately I was having some sort of influenza, when they were introduced these weapons. I served in Russarö II/97.
@Mäkirannantörmä Linnakkeella vai muulla?
1:50
Just a quick sidenote: "Oy" is actually an acronym of "osakeyhtiö" (limited liability company) and as such the equivalent of the English abbrevations "inc" and "ltd". That's why it's pronounced as two separate syllables. If you know IPA, it'll be /'o:.y:/, while an English approximation would be "awe-you".
About the finnish Sten Guns straight from finnish Wikipedia and cursed by Google translate:
At the end of the 1950s, the Finnish army exchanged a batch of obsolete and prey boot weapons with Interarms for 75,000 pieces, mostly Mk.III Stens, each gun also came with five magazines. The stens were renovated in Finland at the Kuopio depot, their bent parts were straightened, strap loops were made in them, the tip of the ejector was shaped according to the Finnish cartridge, the cartridge case was extended and the weapons were blue. After the renovation, they were stored for commissioning. They were used in service to a small extent, mainly as training weapons, for example by combat divers. The title of the Finnish army was 9.00 for Sten II and 9.00 for Sten III.
Names used in 1960s manuals are Konepistooli 42 for Mk. II STEN and Konepistooli 43 for Mk. III. (That is to say Submachine gun 42 and Submachine gun 43)
We were still taught the basics of M31 at the end of the 80's when I did my national service in guerilla/ranger type troops. No sign of M44's or Stens, M31 outlived both of them.
The "Oy" in Ammus Oy is just short for "Osakeyhtiö" which means stock company in English and isn't pronounced as one "oy" but separately "o y". And "Ammus" is ammunition in English.
Ammunition, or more strictly 'projectile'.
After the wars they made showerheads and such. There are hilarious print ads from that time showing a naked lady in a shower with "Ammus-Sytytin Oy" written in bold letters.
*ABLOY enters the chat.
Oy means LTD
Oyj means PLC
@@Caldera01 AB Lukko OY
A "grunt proof" sub gun. Simple, cheap and easy to use. What a long strange history of that weapon and the russian weapon it was based on.
Throw it to a few US Marines and we'll see how grunt proof it is. These are the guys who've manage to break acogs btw lmao.
@@rob119490 breaking an acog isn't that hard. You can do that by fumbling and dropping it. Pretty sure this would survive a few more oopsie drop tests.
Finnish copy of Soviet gun made in Spain sold to West Germany.
…financed by Madagascar lol jk
@@larrymcjones Wut?
A small number of DUX smg was used by West German border guards.
The PPS-43 and M44 are among my favorite WWII SMG patterns. My favorite is the Owen though.
The PPS-43 has always fascinated me because first production was in Leningrad during the siege. They were stripping metal from bombed out cars, broken bicycles, etc, so the production was an incredible feat of human resilience. I had no idea it birthed the Swedish K, this Finnish gun or the Spanish copies. I guess I always placed it in the same category of last-ditch "works most of the time" guns like the Sten. Now I know better.
My father got to use both a Suomi M31 and a Sten when he served his conscription in the 1970s, he said the Sten was such a horrendous piece of junk that when you've emptied the magazine you just throw the entire gun away and get a new one because the gun is not even worth the trouble of changing the magazine.
I always look forward to a new video from Ian. This is the best firearms related channel out there. 🙏
Thanks Ian. I’ve learned so much military/industrial/economic history of my own country from your channel.
Peltiheikki! My all-time favourite gun. Once we used the Suomi drum magazine (all stacked up) with the gun. Lovely slow rate of fire!!
Great story at the end there. Funny how a captured weapon/design that in its mother country was deemed good enough, inspired a copy in Finland that then ended up in Spain 15 years later and then that ended up in Germany. That is some interesting and cool backstory.
That beep scared me abit, I was stretching a bit and the beep coincided with a sharp inhalation 😅
Got a little worried I had burst a vein in my head or something 😅
Glad you’re ok lol
You gotta love the magazine locking and stock unfolding clack!
I Love your videos, they are so educational and entertaining. They Remind me of when I used to watch the history Channel with my Dad, just less aliens.
History Channel is very funny! Everything in Earth was made by aliens! Maybe even this gun hahahahahahahahahahaha
Haha same, History Channel and The Military Channel with my dad watching countless WW2/war documentaries.
@@interlake2043 I wish I had a dad to watch this things with me... #SadMonke
@@interlake2043 Also, I remember watching History Channel about the nazi bell hahahahaha
I love how Ian still says “hopefully you enjoyed the video”…
As if he’s ever made one that we didn’t enjoy 😂
Soviets: did you hear that the fins carry straight magazines!, weird I tell ya
Straight? .......Magazines?
@@william6072 its a skyrim reference
@@william6072 the russian box mags were curved
@@william6072 KP31 and 44 had box magazines, 20 round mags being the most common. What Ian is saying is that Swedish mag replaced the 50 round casket mag (which was terribly unreliable) in '53.
+ Christian Wheilbreit I have heard that in russia there is 5 milj non-straight ppl. As much as people totally in Finland. So...is it good or bad...whatever...
Excellent timing, I was just watching the PPS 43 video last night
One of the things i love from this channel is when guns are disassembled, showing up the magic inside!
NiceVideo!
Love coming home from work to watch the newest episode before i go to bed. Gives me the best dreams xD
Where do you live?
@@gabrielnascimento1021 South Carolina. I work overnights is the thing
Very glad to see this! I have a parts kit that I need to rebuild, this is very helpful.
The beep heard around the 5:34 mark had me looking at the smoke detector in my room. Took a while to realise it came from the video.
Your a legend man! Another awesome video as all the others are!!!
"Valmet wasn't interested" -- As one viewer already noted, Valmet was only founded in 1946, so it wouldn't have been a contender. However, Valmet ("Valtion metallitehtaat" = State Metal Factories) was a conglomerate formed from several formerly separate state-owned companies including the "Valtion tykkitehdas" (State cannon foundry) and "Valtion kivääritehdas" (State Rifle Factory) or VKT, which at the time produced most of Finland's domestic military small arms with the exception of the m/31 Suomi and the m/44, which were produced by Tikkakoski. Why VKT didn't produce the m/44 is a mystery, but they may have been fully occupied producing arms requiring extensive machining (m/35 pistols, m/40 20mm twin AA cannon, barrels for the m/39 rifle etc.) and ammunition to be interested in setting up a sheet-metal pressing shop. Also, their operations had been dispersed from the original Tourula factory to several safer locations (including underground tunnels) to avoid Russian bombing, so they may have had space problems. Incidentally, the name "Tikkakoski" is a compound of the Finnish words "tikka" (woodpecker) and "koski" (rapids); it is not Polish, though the ending might suggest so.
Forgotten weapons is just an essential Part of every gunlover that uses youtube and the internet active
Thank you Ian for showing me yet another piece of fine engineering,with perpess that I never knew existed.
Is that the Rare Moldovian Mk4 Sniper Rifle?
I came looking for this comment
Mian Accolum sure has blessed this video too
5:33 that’s the sound of Ian scanning this particular forgotten weapon at the self-checkout station, and pulling out his credit card..
5:32 According to the lie detecter, the hand grip is actually the single most important piece of any firearm's functionality.
Excellent piece of history. Thank you!
With the slow rate of fire that these guns have, they are probably a blast to shoot with those 70 round Suomi mags lol
best part 04:53 .. that satisfying clank of drum magazine going into place
A video full of essential nutrients...I mean, nuts&bolts of a submachine gun which I never heard of before. Thank you, Forgotten Weapons!
Just about every army in Europe began the war with the majority of it's troops armed with the equivalent of WW1 rifles. As the war progressed, everyone was looking to increase the firepower of it's soldiers. Especially true in Finland, with it's limited manpower; issuing more automatic weapons for increased firepower to make up for shrinking manpower reserves.
Germany did the same thing with it's "Volksgrenadier" infantry divisions it began forming in 1944. The number of men in the divisions had been reduced, but they were equipped with a higher percentage of automatic weapons; including whole platoons armed with MP-40 submachine guns and STG44 assault rifles.
Very satisfying “snap” of those mags.
Good video of a brutally simple gun, but what impressed me was the deal to simply swap useless guns for Stens.
That beep at 5:34 got me. Loud over the car speakers. Jumped a bit.
You weren't kidding when you said this thing was sheet metal, there's just metal, rivets, and washers
5:32 the beep scared the shit out of me lol
If that bolt handle isn't welded in (pretty sure it is), that becomes a very expensive bolt, since you can't lathe the diameters
The spoon of the bolt welded onto it.
Greetings,
Jeff
The Fins look at a Russian weapons and say "Finish Him!" everytime. Flawless Victory.
Even made cheaply the Finnish stampings are exellent
Pistolet-Perkele Saatana model of '43
As they say, “copying is the sincerest form of flattery!”
Fun fact- the numbers on my KP-44 parts kit are lower than the Forgotten Weapons one.
I'm happy, even though they aren't matching.
Thank you Mr Ian 😃!
Another great presentation
thats so far most simplified beauty ive seen
Sako is making new rifle that is based in ar10/15 model 7.62 NATO cal semi auto for Finnish defence forces. There is a version for snipers that replace dragunov and other more simple version for infantry support purpose.
Sako m23
Suomi m31's were still in stores for close defence weapons for coastal artillery in late 1980's when I served in the army. Never actually saw any Stens around at the time. As I know all m31's were retired in early 1990's when Finland bought HUGE amounts of AK's very cheaply from previous East Germany (DDR) and China (?). Luckily many of the DDR inventory-weapons still used same ammo (7.62mm) which is still Finnish military standard caliber today 2021. Very good cartridge I have to say after hundreds of rounds, but recoil is quite heavy for anything close-combat :(
Its funny on your Beretta 38A video 2 days ago my first comment was I would prefer the PPS-43, I guess the finns felt the same way
A friend of mine has one of theses that I got to shoot for a bit. For legality reasons it was sold to him as semi auto only and had the stock tack welded closed. Was super fun to shoot, had basically no recoil. I'd call it a plinking gun.
Lovely stuff. The minimalist SMG par excellence.
05:30 Beeper tone warningof uttering out loud the S-word for too many times.
I love how countries copies(some "genuis" says steal) guns and ideas how to use this weapons.
I love waking up to new gun videos
Thank you , Ian .
Don't mean to nitpick. But the Russian PPS-43's were chambered for the 7.62 X 25 cartridge. These Finnish MP 44's, for 9 x 19, (Luger cartridge). This could be quite confusing to the folks who would think a CG 45 mag, would work in a original PPS-43.
If you could travel back to 1935 and mass produce any smg of the next 10 years in prep to sell when WWII broke out.
Which design would tou go for as the best? Owen, Suomi, Italian?
Being British I go with Sten MK5 with a better magazine ie double feed. Grease gun in 9x19 would be good as well.
Make it 10 years after 1936 I could then have Carl Gustav M/45.
Try to some intermediate rounds design and sell them as submachine gun.
@@bozo5632 or just do a grease gun in all the calibers. The .45 bolt should be big enough to handle the more potent smaller caliber stuff.
this was awesome, thanks man...
This guy is brilliant. He knows his stuff
Ive always looked at the PPS-43 and derivatives as, not the weapon they wanted, but the weapon they needed.
The Sten and Sterling also fit that description, they're cheap and crude, and just work.
The Sterling is a Cadillac compared to the average Sten. One could compare the Sten to a Yugo - something that has the general feeling and quality of being assembled at gunpoint, which it kinda has if you really think about the situation during 1940.
@@HustleMuscleGhias What I'm saying is that all these weapons are simple and cheap to build. Its not a super fancy gun with tons of machined parts and stupid tight tolerances. The M3 also fits that description.
Its not the weapon they wanted, it was the weapon they needed. They just work, can be built cheap and are reliable to a fault. Whats not to love about any of them?
Great video once again
I know its possible, but it would seem incredibly inefficient if the bolt and the bolt handle were one piece of material, would have imagined that it was dovetailed in ?
Suomi KP31: Who are you?
M44 SMG: I'm your new sister but from PPS-43.
"why is Ian whispering so much? *Menacing Beep* oh god"
3:30 Ahh... 😊 Much better now.
the random shot timer beep made me flinch. lol
Thanks Ian
Great history, you cant find this shit anywhere. One point, when you see "OY" or "OYJ" it means like "ltd", or "gmbh", Literally "OsakeYhtiö" and "JulkinenOsakeYhtiö", "StockCompany", and "PublicStockCompany" "AB" is same in swedish, "AktieBolag" For example the finnish lock company ABLOY is just, "Aktie Bolag Lukko(lock) Osake Yhtiö".
Point being, its not a word, it is an abbreviation. So you say it "oo-yy", like one would say "UU ES EI"
"Ammus" means "munition".
Anyone else notice the loud beep at 5:36?
The firing pin is fixed but also removable from bolt.
seeing as this channel deals with old/odd weapons Ian, care to take a stab at the Metal Storm at all?
HAH! Hearing Ian say Ammus Oy as if Oy was a word was rather funny.
For anyone wondering, it's pronounced O. Y. as separate letters because it's shorthand for "osakeyhtiö"=stock company or limited company. The mixup is understandable with them capitalizing the first letter of a compound word.
Any idea how the bolt handle would be machined "as one" with the bolt? Most of the bolt looks lathe turned then milled - I can't see an easy way to do the handle. Plus the initial steel billet would have to be much bigger with an integrated bolt handle.
Appears the blind end of the bolt handle has a degree of dovetail to it. Perhaps the handle is press fitted with a taper and dovetail, then surfaced off into tolerance hiding any seams? 🤷🏼♂️
But you're entirely right. That would be an obscenely large blank to start with for the ending diameter of the bolt itself. The story is already that raw materials were hard to procure, no way that amount of waste would have been allowed. (Both in materials and time)
Its dovetailed and welded
Great video
You hear those pps-43 from Finland got straight magazines? Straight. Magazines.
Very cool
last time I was this early, the Russians still were confident in their power in Finland
...small correction 🙂 The charging handel tap with the bolt is not machined to the bolt, it is separate part attached to finely grooved slot on the bolt.
The safety feature with the bolt stop is a Finnish design addition to the original Soviet design, which didn't have one.
Recoil is nominal, firing speed is slow enough to shoot double taps and even single shots. If you have enough muscles, you can manage it just fine with one hand too 🤗
its dovetailed and welded
"attached to finely grooved slot on the bolt. " aka machined.
Are you and Karl psychic or something, both uploading Finn videos at the same time...
Or do you just communicate?
They were both in Finland recently for Finnish Brutality.
Willy Daug’s Owner Tikkakoski made DUX 9mm in West Germany in 1950’s
The "OY" in Ammus OY is an abbreviation for Osake Yhtiö, the equivalent of PLC. It's not meant to be pronounced as a word.
I want one of those so bad. I fell in love with the 7.62x25 cartridge when I bought a Yugo M-57. It is very accurate and has nice power to it.
Why you want 9x19mm smg if you like 7,62x25?
@@XtreeM_FaiL the PPSH-43 is in 7.62x25 the original version as I have been told. I could be wrong but the Russian didn't use 9mm they used 7.62x25.
@@biggerbehindthetrigger2814 This isn't the PPS. It is KP-44 / M44.
@@XtreeM_FaiL my bad
How often do you travel! Been here since the early years, learned so much of my knowledge from your videos
He travels to a place, makes a bunch of video and uploads them randomly when he's at home
“In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away,.”
Antoine de Saint Exupéry
Now Ian, look that bolt over better, looking at machining marks, handle must have been added, silver soldered, hydrogen brazed, spot welded or something. Hey I love your videos. If I wasn't a law abider I would be dangerous. Have a bit of machine shop equipment, if I could just cut rifling. Ok. I could if I wanted to bad enough.
Thanks for the video.
I really like this gun it was extremely fun to shoot!! My brother used to own one of these