Should we no longer use the phrase "Western values?" Also, my cat of 19 years, Ellie, who I refer to in this video, died on New Year's Eve, after I filmed this. I dedicate this video to her. And now I need to find a new cat producer.
Western Values is a dumb phrase, if you wanna refer to liberty and democracy then refer to liberty and democracy, no reason to try and make it geopolitical
One aspect of this that you didn't touch on, is that there are a lot of ideas and values that originated in "The West" that usually aren't considered "Western Values" Nazism and Communism both originated in Europe, but they are not usually considered a part of "Western Values".
“The West” is such a self-defined term so as to be essentially meaningless-like you say, there’s clearly a cherry-picking of those values and heritages…if we wanted to place a stronger definitional line, I’d put it as those places directly influenced by the Roman Empire-basically, Europe and North Africa and the Middle East The Roman Empire was arguably the most influential power in world history for mainly obvious reasons (extent of landmass and adoption and spread of Christianity) but think about all those indirect and symbolic outcomes, like the Reformation and colonialism and imperialism and even liberal democracy (the “Founding Fathers” after all modeled a fair bit of the federal government on the Roman Repulbic and even the political theories of Polybius)…but that’s just my take, if I had to put some actual meaning behind a mostly empty catechism
@@warlordofbritannia I don't agree that the Roman Empire was in fact a part of Western Civilisation, the way Roman society operated would be so alien to us today or even people living in Western Europe 1000 years ago as to make it effectively entirely its own "classical" civilisation, one from which the west, the Islamic world and the orthodox world have sprouted from. It is much easier to see a common culture that today forms the modern west deriving from the Carolingian Empire, one that was Christian, Feudal and decentralised in the way power was vestiged in a way that the Roman Empire was not.
@@hpsauce1078 Eh, I guess I get your point…but the Carolingian Empire derived their legitimacy by aping Rome-crowned by the Pope of the ROMAN Catholic Church in ROME, their empire becoming thus known as the Holy ROMAN Empire…a friend of mine wrote his capstone thesis on how on the Karlings, with help from the Pope, basically assumed the mantle of Rome in order to cement their legitimacy, especially at a time when the Byzantines and Papacy were on poor terms and the Basileus was actually a woman…
Using the phrase "western values", which is clearly undefined, is really great for politicians, as whomever is listening can easily insert whatever values THEY like and thus feel that the politician is fighting for THEIR values (regardless of which they are).
Phrase "western values" is mainly overused by nazis and fasists now. Commies call it "traditional values" but they mean the same thing. Funny is that leader of the most "traditional values" and anti immigrant party here in Czechia is immigrant from Japan. 😀
People are always listing what Western values they have in mind whenever they talk about them, so even though the list of possible values to be included in the term Western values is rather long, the term is not meaningless.
@@jongoodwin5936 point is white man success was build on stolen loot in the name of Jesus, they commit unspeakable atrocities ,made tons of evil earn tons of gold, made women and children suffer in hell to become successful countries, white man talk about human rights is like Ron Jeremy said we should not objectify women.
During my college days I was disillusioned with organized religion, but gave the originators the legitimacy of their experience. I felt all had encountered something beyond their description and could only fit their experience within their social and psychological milieu. One of the most fundamental ideas I found in all religions is, "Life is hard, help each other."
The problem with that is that "help" means different things to different people. For example in some cultures it is socially expected to discipline ALL children not just your own. So you tell me how you would feel with a complete stranger disciplining your child in public for misbehaving?
@@ViperXMambo Being helpful is an intention in someone's mind. You can do something helpful with negative results. That doesn't mean you weren't trying to help. How that help looks like will be different from culture to culture, but the intention will be the same.
Keep in mind that *religion is a kind of law* , and all law does is ensure the survival of a group. That's why you make rules when you want to keep a group.
Yeah did the Muslims help the berbers in North Africa? They believe they did. By exterminating and outbreeding them post conquest because many refused to convert. No, that all value systems and religions are the same, and yes, some are better. I’m not so sure the Incas would like modern Peru would they?
The term "Western civilization" has become more of an association to developed nations. By definition, it should include most of Latin America, a region clearly with huge influence of Europe (lenguage, religion, architecture, moral values and such), but almost everything i read about "Western civilization", only applies to North America, Australia, New Zealand and of course Europe.
Latin America should be included in Western Civilization, but imo, Western Civilization should be split into four subcategories: European (including Canada and Oceania), Slavic, American, and Latin American. To say that the same civilizational structure exists across America, Peru, Denmark, and Russia is ridiculous. And you could even add a hybrid/“adopted” fifth western civilization of the East Asian democracies (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan).
@@Gbnation1 Yes and No, there was indeed a very strong western influence in Japan but most of the Japanese values didn't change to western ones, most of the values thst did change were political and not social, for example Japan and other Eastern countries still are very group based, the reverse of the west more individual perspective, the group needs is more important than the individual needs, it's is much more hierarchical with strict lines that have to be followed depending on the person's place in the social hierarchy, its not based in liberty but in compliance, which leaded to the events of Japan in WW2 and some say it is what is guiding the path of China right now, Compliance under the authority of the government. And as those societies aren't based in the individual, liberty is not a very strong sentiment, for example in Japan if someone is a suspect of a crime they will be considered gulty until proven otherwise, having a 99% conviction rate. Also Japan and Singapore have voted for the same political party since they have democracy in their country, many consider this undemocratic, I wouldn't consider east Asia a part of the western world in any way, altrough they had a very strong influence from the US (I'd say that only in a linguistic basis English influenced Jpanese and Korean in a way similar to how French influenced English, the amount of Loanwords is very surprising and large). Most of their cultural and societal values are much older and are founded in confusionism and other Eastern philosophies like Legalism or some eastern rites of Buddhism.
We live in a sad world where people put labels the wrong way for their gains or convenience. Basically, I think it is geopolitical branding and marketing. I like how in this video, Mr. Beat was saying that we should say that people have values and what kind instead of saying "western values" or "eastern values" because nobody knows what "western values" and "eastern values" are. This way of thinking, as in generalizing and lumping a whole lot of things into one thing, also leads to a lot of confusion, for example, many Americans that I've seen go on to think that Asia is one country and one people, which is absurd. Also, I really want to question this idea of individualism = west and collectivism = east. It seems like scholars in the past labeled it that way but to me, it just never made any sense. People all around the world just seem to have been brainwashed in schools to accept this idea. I think it is only generally valid; each country and people show varying degrees of these qualities. Now lets all just say, democracy is a democracy, nazism is nazism, communism is communism, socialism is socialism, nationalism is nationalism, etc, instead of saying stuff like democracy is a western value and communism is an eastern value...(which the latter is just wrong) hmm... if anybody wants to label something they should be more specific like saying Confucianism is an East Asian value or more like an ideology, originating from Spring and Autumn period China and its influences were strong in China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam. (10 mo old video but I'm here still commenting... LOL)
You are absolutely right. I have been so confused about this stereotype collectiveness and vice versa. Honestly, Chrisranity is a dominant religion in west and it promotes collectiveness.
I think the main argument for any honest person to stop using that name, is that it dumbs down so much political discourse it is counter productive to take something new out of an argument.
@Safwaan Exactly. It is just meaningless words lazily thrown around in political discourse. Like Mr. Beat said, the same goes with fascism, communism, socialism, leftism, liberalism, conservatism etc. They just get equated with "good" or "bad" and fail to really describe concepts meaningfully. Or just get abused enough to actually contradict their original meanings. i.e. "liberals want to take away guns" is said in discourse but makes no sense.
This leads to total conceptual disintegration. Where does it stop? Must every non-essential characteristic be named to describe something and how will you causally integrate them? So now instead of saying: I am a socialist. You say: I am a 30 year old person from manitoba who plays the flute, is for a 4 hour work day, wants that elon musk gives 6 billion to africa and that our national healthcare expenditure is raised by 6.5 percent.
@@gch5559 I mean, if that is what they truly believe, then yes? Things are to be discussed point by point, a single word can't describe your political view, people are more complex than that.
Ofcourse a single word can contain an immense amount of information. More importantly it integrates it into a unit. Which sees the connection between its parts. This idea can become absurd very quickly when you think about it. I would like to show you its absurdity by looking at another concept. Dog. If someone said: “you mentioned you have a pet, what kind of pet is it?” Would you say its a four legged animal with hair all over its body and a good capability of smelling? Or would you say a dog? Your argument against it would amount to saying: “Well some dogs have three legs” But this is not relevant. And if it is you can state it as such. My dog has three legs. And for the same regard a socialist can say: “I am a socialist but I am against the minimum wage increase proposed” Disintegration is a waste of time, energy, unfeasable for a human to do consistently and destructive for it ignores the reality that there are uniting characteristics among concretes and abstractions.
What puzzles me about "Western values" is how much they contradict a huge part of the political history of the West. If democracy is a Western value, were Bourbon France and Habsburg Spain not Western? Was Rome Western when it was a kingdom or only became Western when they kicked out Tarquinius? What about the Greek city-states that weren't democracies? Nowadays we have the Vatican City, is it Western? Partially, if we measure it with that list of values. So I think the so-called Western values are inconsistent with reality and confusing.
Also, Greco-Roman civilisation and empires had almost nothing to do with North European civilisation, whilst a huge amount with the middle-east. I hate how fellow North Europeans claim cultural heritage to the founding of Demoracy as they see it as a "European" invention, as if at the time Ancient Greeks would be highly offended to be even compared with Northern Europeans.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 I mean lots of judeo Christian values are contradictory to western values of separation of church and state, religious tolerance, and general enlightenment ideals
Here in our country, while studying sociology and history, rarely do we use the term "Western values" and would much prefer using terms such as Europe/an, and America/n influences. We also use the term the "West" in a more geographic sense, so it talks about Europe, the Americas, and Australia and New Zealand. But all in all, we don't make it much of a big deal, so we just use these terms when referring to historical or cultural influences, and attach which nation first thought about it, regardless of its location.
Values still originate in a certain place, time, and culture. Some can arise independently of each other, such as prohibitions on stealing or murdering, but some values are so specific that they could only arise in a certain place first and then be adopted by a second culture only because that second culture came into contact with the first culture which developed those values.
I think we need to rethink how we use the label “western values”. Good values and principles of responsibility and justice aren’t exclusive to just the west, they exist everywhere’s (including throughout the East). The values and principles that America is based on, exist from the power of individuals. Individuals who espouse these values can come from the West (i.e. Booker T. Washington) or the East (Malala Yousafzai). Great video as always Mr. Beat!
The West and the East both have their share of great people and those who believe in American values. George Washington and Abraham Lincoln in the West and Mahatma Gandhi in the East.
It is incredibly disingenuous to pretend that all humans believe in human rights liberal democracy and liberal freedoms most in the Islamic world are fanatically opposed to this. Even if they weren't they would still be western values because they originated in the west. Depriving westerners of this great legacy would be like saying we should no longer use the phrase "Indian numerals"
Interesting proposition! Highlighting how various GROUPS of people, organizations, entire communities, have influenced American culture may add a stronger edge to your argument too. It seems like only highlighting individuals (from either Western or Eastern backgrounds), only upholds the concept of individualism. Which is a true staple of “Western” thinking, culture, and of course values. As the US (or any country) was not formed and shaped by solely individuals it’s intriguing how we are often taught more about influential individuals than influential groups of people… at least that’s the way it seems for me.
As an Asian, I would argue that the reason why the western values are prevalent because of extreme colonialism. When the colonialists left, we took the best aspects of their culture (Parliamentary system, democracy) and infused it with our values (respect for elders etc). I would say the biggest difference between western and Eastern values would be that the former focuses on respect for self while the latter focuses on respect for others
Well another aspect is the west (mostly the US and UK, but that's mostly what people think of when they think of the west) won world War 2 and the cold War (which was basically the second great schism) and as a result, had a great influence in the 3rd world (a reminder that 3rd world originally referred to non aligned nations during the cold war) and rebuilding failed Eastern bloc states
@I believe What you say while it is true that the USSR and China played a great role in defeating the axis, it's undeniable that their victory came much due from aid from the US. the US weakened the nazis in the battle of bulge, but Stalin insisted that the soviets defeat the nazis. It's pretty obvious how the US defeated Japan, but in case I still need to, the atomic bomb. Also the US gave a crapload of military aid to China and the ussr. Also its worth noting although more Germans and Japanese died from China and ussr, the soviets and Chinese had more fatalities than any other country. As for the cold war, my point was as the Victors, the western powers had influenced the 3rd world as the leading world power by the end of it
@I believe What you say my whole point was it was the western powers that led the war to victory. The battle of the bulge was commanded by Eisenhower that led to the defeat of nazis in the western front before they retreated and finally surrendered in the east. As for Japan, the atomic bomb absolutely resulted in Japan's surrender, and although fear of a soviet invasion was also a factor in their surrender, it's questionable that such a fear would have continued if the US hadn't already weakened them so severely through air raids (considering they attacked the US navy head on, I'm assuming not)
How about your respect for women or LGBT? You can't say you respect others if you're bothered by what two consenting people of the same sex do in bed and like to insult and discriminate them.
@@dennisengelen2517 Personally, I couldn't care less and attitudes are slowly changing around here. But you do have to remember that a lot of anti LGBT sentiment in the east was originally due to influence from christian missionaries.
When I say "western values/culture" I mean classic liberalism and individualism. I often use it in contrast with Chinese culture (which I'm from). I started doing this when discussing parenting/childhood stuff and it went on from there.
It is true that overall, Europe and North America is more individualist than East Asia. But even that is a massive oversimplification. For example that's not true for Eastern Europe, and I'm not so sure about indigenous people of America either. But in my case, neither of these values are better, both have advantages and disadvantages. For example during covid, East Asia ended up much better because they often wore masks while the USA mostly didn't. Which is an advantage to the East Asian collectivist mindset.
As a fellow Chinese person that’s lived in America for 30 years I call bullshit. As my parents immigrated here for liberalism which the power brokers in America hates. The longer I live in America the more it strives to become China. A woman in South Carolina was jailed for her speech and a journalist in Texas was jailed for reporting what a cop told her off the record.
Just came across this video after 10 months and it's a massive breath of fresh air. I applaud you for making such a well presented video to represent these messages.
I'm not so sure. While the people he cites feel odd, he also feels odd. As though it's one extremist criticizing other extremists. Also I don't think most people would claim Western values eg individualism, equality, rule of law, etc would necessarily only occur in the West. Nor is a reformist movement in Saudi Arabia necessarily a defeater of Western values being unique to the west (not saying this either). Because reformist movements in Saudi Arabia could be influenced by Western values.
@@peterc.1419 I think you're trying to make the point that Mr beat was trying to make in the video. The term "western values" is a convoluted phrase that is used to weaponize a common set of ideals around the world.
@@markpace7788 I actually disagree with this. For me "Mr Beat" comes across as the people who weaponize Western traditions. He answers polemics with his own polemics. I find PragerU odd and I find him odd too.
@@peterc.1419 interesting. I'm not familiar with Prager u, but from what I remember watching this video I felt like he took a pretty middle ground stance of trying to unite people behind humanity rather than east vs west
@@markpace7788 He cites people from PragerU. I'm not American and I think this is an American vs American thing. PragerU is like a more republican like thinktank pushing out pro-rep views. I don't know about humanity. Right now in Ukraine Russian humans are treating Ukrainian humans worse than they'd treat their dogs or cars. I'm not sure that appealing to such things can unite people. After all why should one value another human because he is human? Seems speciest, no? Another thing is that while many of us who defend Ukraine actually speak of Western values, people like the guy from Fox will also cite Western values but appears to be more Russia friendly. Yes the concepts can be convoluted but I think there is someting to Western values or traditions or norms or what one wishes to call them. Still I find the guys from PragerU distasteful and odd, as though something is not right about what they're saying and I get the same feeling about Mr Beat as though he has his own agenda behind this, as do they. Thank you.
“Western Values” is a marketing slogan, nothing more, nothing less. As shown by the video, the comments, and everyone’s common sense, values transcend. The divisions in our world arise around implementation choices, priorities, and variations of risk tolerance, not from the oversimplified shit we are told like “they hate freedom”. That’s just stupid.
I agree with some of your points, the west does not have a monopoly on all these values. That being said there are certain values that the west definitely emphasises over others. For example the west is very much individualistic in its outlook due the englighment while the East is much more collectivist in its thinking due to the influence eastern philosophies such Buddhism and confuciansim. This explains why the cultures of Western Europe and east ask all while having common values, place certain emphasis on certain values.
I personally believe Buddhism and it's values are far more human, scientific and better than Christian values especially when it comes to minorities, racism, women rights, universal brotherhood and peace
Well sure, that’s a difference in values, but where it gets complicated is which is better? Values are a point on a continuum that changes. We are taught individualism is the most important thing, but we have very high rates of depression and social problems because of it. 50 years ago women were supposed to be married, having kids, and supporting their husbands 24/7. That’s def a collectivist value, and now we flipped and that’s oppression. But even now, some women want that and feel that’s how it should be. Good and bad are based on how everyone feels, if eastern countries feel fine with a collectivist culture, selling them on western culture isn’t easy because they don’t see the need, and western culture def flip flopped on many issues so it’s not even consistent. Western values both enslaved and then freed the slaves, they’re both western lol point is, it’s not simple to attribute values to one group, and in seeing which is better, it’s hard because if people don’t mind a lifestyle, it’s hard to say it’s bad. Always remember arranged marriages have better outcomes than self chosen ones, because you’re taking a decision off the table. Decisions aren’t always good.
Well put! Especially the part regarding Western values as coded language in many aspects. I never really gave it thought but I can see how using “Western” instead of other terms can obscure certain positions or potential action that ppl may want to keep discrete. Great video
@@sagebias2251 There is no code but in your mind, no whistle but from your obsession. Everyone knows who the West is and what those values are as shown here. Listed often. Those values have no race or nationality except in your world. The fact they developed in Europe is a fact of history and has no bearing on their superiority or goodness for humanity except in those who hold racism and expose their inward hatred in their expressions of whistles and codes.
It definitely can be used in place of any other more "explicit" language for "unmarketable" ideologies. However, this isn't to say most people that use "Western values" ascribe to said ideologies. Its important to recognize when someone is encoding their speech and knowing when they're wearing a veil.
three pillars of western culture 1. greek philosophy (love for knowledge) 2. roman law (extremely harsh but also equal for all, in the ideal) 3. christian morality (kindness, mercy, charity...) A lot of the inconsistencies come from the clash between the 2 and 3
@@4cps777 it was Renaissance 2.0 where they actually do a lot of building up on the prior knowledge instead of just rediscovering the classical antique (greeks and romans)
Ok but none of what you listed in parentheses is exclusively Western. That's the point here. The issue with believing these are exclusively Western is an implication that Non-Western cultures are inherently inferior. From there it's only a few degrees away from treating anyone not from the West as less than human. “No one has to own values.”
@@mantrajojo4163 Wut? Just because I own a toy car doesn't mean I am the only person on planet earth to own a toy car. Just because western culture is built out of 1,2,3 doesn't mean other cultures can't have them. Chinese have law, they have philosophy, they have morality. One can argue europeans have roman law, greek philosophy and christian morality and chinese don't but it doesn't matter anyway. Roman law was extremely harsh but so was most every ancient law system. Japanese are hard working, germans are hard working, being hardworking is a german thing but it isn't exclusively a german thing. Hovewer when you list german stereotypes you include hard work. Therefore western culture is built on 1,2,3, and these are the western values but they can and are shared with others.
I'm inclined to say my favorite eastern value is _concern for the well-being of others,_ something the west seems to have a disturbing shortage of in recent years. The red scare began with factory workers going on strike because they were literally being worked to death. Contrary to the owner's excuses, cutting their hours in half _increased_ their productivity, because they had more energy, meaning that while they were working they could work faster and smarter, getting more done with less and making fewer mistakes. It turns out people are better at their jobs when they're allowed to exist outside their jobs.
@@Floppedd those with money and power are abusing people's concern for others' wellbeing to exploit the poor for... really, no meaningful benefit whatsoever, since employees are more productive and therefore business are more profitable when they have lives outside of work, and even if it did increase profits there are diminishing returns on wealth once you're over the threshold of being able to afford food, clothing, housing, transportation, and hygiene. If they didn't have that concern for others, their concern for others couldn't be abused. In the US, corporate culture appeals to personal gain, to the "American dream", the idea of becoming one of those wealthy few who have so much more than they need that gain means nothing to them and yet continuing to increase profits is their only goal. In Asia, the same goal is achieved by telling people that if they don't work themselves to death they're being selfish, not pulling their weight, failing to contribute to society - or at least to their employer's success. The same awful ends are achieved both by appealing to self-destructive greed and to good intentions. That the good intentions are also exploited doesn't in any way implyv they don't exist. In fact, they have to exist for exploiting them to be effective.
As a Hungarian these “western values” means nothing to me…As we were influenced by both “eastern” and “western” values its hard to say what belongs where.We kind of have our own.
@@migaloo364 Yes and no.Hungary is in the middle.Our past we used to have our own religion and tradition and it was more “eastern” and we carried that with us along with the “western” and christian values.
@@migaloo364 Eastern Europe is often considered it's own thing from Western Europe. They didn't really take to colonizing like Western Europe did (unless there are some exceptions I don't know about). Southeast Europe in particular was apart of the Ottoman Empire at some point, which was Islam, shaping the region a bit differently from the rest of Europe. The Cold War really caused Eastern Europe to be different from Western Europe because it was under Soviet Rule. Even today Eastern and Western Europe do differ on a few things, like Eastern Europe still isn't big on LGBTQ+ rights like western Europe is.
8:40 isn’t that white man’s burden? Because honestly feels pretty disturbing when people say “Western values are far superior”. Lots of times reminds me of the gross imperialism committed by European countries throughout history to conquer, colonize, and subjugate their fellow human beings in other lands. And then of course what America did during the late 19th century and until this day, especially with its Cold War policy such as the banana wars and containment with regime change. I do think we shouldn’t use that term anymore as it has a dangerous connotation to it. And it’s kinda disrespectful to people who aren’t “western”
@@Sara-gl2mgcultural groups exist in co existence, but we do have cultural values here in Asia that are quite similar to one another which are rooted in collectivism and conservatism which has existed for years due to having a massive population. As opposed to the western values of individual freedom as a source of ability. we seek ours through groups such as ethnic ties and familial relations. And you see this trend from Korean to Iranian to indian and to southeast Asian cultures and circles which are rooted in our own philosophy, ethnic groups and religion.
The "values" that are common among many Western nations are, for the large part, shared with many people in other parts of the world. However, for the most part, those values do not seem to be shared by those in power in non-western countries. I'd like to point out the "slippery slope" logical fallacy in the video - "we all know where this leads." I think the biggest issue with "Western Values" is simply that there is no single agreed upon definition which complicates asserting some notion of superiority. Furthermore, terms that many agree would be part of the Western value system - like freedom of speech -- are not universally agreed upon either (Europe does not see hate speech as protected but America does). And, like you pointed out, some term are even contradictory. I think it would be more fair to compare the values of the government of Western and non-Western countries instead of the governed.
@@sentientflower7891 Well colonialism brought brutal autocratic oppression and a lot of those countries are dictatorships now so maybe we did sell something lol
@@miguelpereira9859 We did. But it certainly were not many of the core values we still uphold to his day for example in most of Europe. People often fail to distinguish between what one ( state ) does at home ( home region / continent aso. vs. in some far off place that’s essentially just a tool to further one’s interests. And also the difference between an esteemed ideal and how one chooses to implement said ideal. Case in point; the freedom of choosing where one wants to live only extends to one’s citizens. This is not a western value but the principle remains. Despite a theoretical truth that’s established everywhere, there are contradicting international arrangements, based on practical concerns.
While the USA doesn't ban hate speech, it still bans copyright infringement, which isn't seen as something against free speech for them. So even the US definition of free speech could be questioned as not perfect.
Suggesting that your values are in some way superior and must be imposed or spread to other people is a slippery slope. The values of a government is temporary, fleeting, and values themselves are not something strictly abided by all the time with no real metric of how much value one shows over the coarse of a public figures career for example. The difference between the USA and China government is Authoritarianism, which is an ideology not a value that Chinese people believe that you must have a singular party or ruler. Freedom of speech being one sticking point between them is never truly free and there are still limits on it that we perceive as necessary because of the harm it may cause. E.g. hate speech against individuals or groups of people or whistleblowers that highlight unconstitutional practices
Overtime I've moved away from using the term Western values however I think mr. Beat kind of noted something that I agree with and that is these are Enlightenment values. These are values that became prominent during the European Enlightenment. And I think that as they exist around the world today they predominantly do not exclusively extend from Enlightenment philosophy. The problem with using the term Western, is that whether or not these values were from Europe Africa Asia South America Etc is totally incidental and not an essential part of these values they are irrelevant. These values are simply in line with The Human Condition so we should expect to see versions of these values pop up from time to time in different parts of the world.
As a member of the military, I've traveled to Russia, Greece, Japan, and the Middle East; I can honestly say that I think that "Western Values" doesn't actually exist and it's only used as a way to describe that a person or type of people are better somehow than others. Seeing how most people in those countries I've mentioned above live their lives, it's really not that different from the United States, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Australia, and/or England. Thank you Mr. Beat for a great video and another wonderful use of history and knowledge.
@@subhuman3408 If you travel all over the world, every country has rules and laws that other people who are not from that country don't agree with. That has nothing to do with Northern, Eastern, Western, and/or Southern "values". Every country I've been to has laws and rules I don't agree with. Unfortunately I can't tell countries how to run their nations; it's simple common sense.
As a Latin American I'd say "Western" is much more annoying than many terms Americans think might be offensive. I thought it was supposed to mean greco-roman culture like the video explains but it's often used to exclude Greece, Italy, Spain or LatAm. It seems a man from Reykjavík is and especially *looks* more Western then a man from Athens. At least when used by English people it almost always seems to be a euphemism for "People like us. Normal. Standard. White"
America is a country. I’m American and I don’t find “western” annoying or offensive. It seems that you jealous of and America obsessed Latinos do though.
Some asian values or eastern values I see growing up are "Harmony", "Respect", "Patience", "Empathy", "Compassion", "Order", "Structure". Also I think there's linguistic barriers in analyzing values. Even though we may seemingly share the same concept of "democracy" or "capitalism". But if you really dig deep into how 民主 (democracy in Chinese), 自由 (freedom in Chinese), 市场 (market in Chinese), constructed in different social and linguistic manners, their origin and developmental phases/processes are still different from western countries and there are enormous nuances. I don't really think western values that seemingly not limited to deriving/existing/perpetuating only in the west but also in the east are exactly the same considering all the nuances.
Empathy and compassion as eastern values?? The east has the most human rights violations and oppressive governments in the whole world. The East has the most rigorous/strict discipline cultures around. Respect, patience, structure etc are things you’ll find in African cultures aswell, they value ethnic and family structure and respect their elders and people in authority, talking back is a taboo. Those values aren’t just found in the East.
China's values have been replaced by CCP values. Their language was even updated with words like "love" having their meaning slightly changed to fit the communist narrative.
I think the reason we call these values "western values" is that there is not other word for them collectively and that theses values are protected by law in western contries, but theses values are shared by different people all around the world and not all people in western society share them.
These values are shared throughout the world, precisely because of Western colonialism and the impression the West left on the entire globe, which Mr Beat conveniently ignores in this extremely oversimplified and very biased video
My favorite definition of the West comes from Senator McCain at the Munich Security Conference: From the ashes of the most awful calamity [WWII] was born what we call „the West“. A new and different and better kind of world order. One not based on blood and soil nationalism or spheres of influence or conquest of the weak by the strong but rather on universal values, rule of law, open commerce and respect for the national sovereignty and independence. Indeed the entire idea of the West is that it’s open to any person or any nation that honors and upholds these values.
As an American of (white) New Zealand parents (ie, a 'Western' country in the global South), my favorite 'Southern' value is environmentalism. Capitalism has done a lot to increase the wealth of many people in the world, but history has shown that it's come at the cost of devastating the environment, which is something that non-Western cultures have long recognized.
Nonsense. "Environmentalism" is a purely western invention, it is something non-western culture never recognised. They never had economic growth to recognise it in the first place.
@@justinnamuco9096 You cannot "destroy" the environment. It will exist for a billion years yet. All that happens is we may exhaust some easy to get minerals or oil. I guess you think in the bronze age, they "destroyed" the environment when they mined bronze. Nonsense. It is a requirement of production (specifically manufacturing) to use the earth's bounty (resources), whether privately owned or public. Without it you'd have no "things", no phone, no car, no infrastrucure, no 21st century society.
My favorite northwestern value- loving nature My favorite southern value- sweet tea with lemon My favorite western value- the beach boys and yes, I value you too Mr Beat
First, my condolences on the loss of your cat. Secondly, define your definitions. For instance, Maslow (as I understand it) said all people need security/safety. I have never met a person who said they want to feel unsafe. They might like the thrill of danger like extreme sports or something but no one that I have met wants to live in a state of not knowing if their physical needs will be met or if they will be beaten or killed at any given moment. HOWEVER, how that safety is achieved is different from person to person and from group (culture) to group (culture). When I lived in Portland, OR in the 1990s, I held low level jobs and as such ran across a lot of people who, like myself, did not value the benefits of mid to higher level positions enough to pursue them (still don't, but anyway). Many of these people were squatters. They lived in abandoned houses. Their "families" were whoever was their at that moment. They were very nomadic. Most of the ones I met were brilliant philosophers, mathematicians and artists. However, they defined safety differently than the sedentary culture that surrounded them. Freedom was paramount. Being tied to a place or job was unsafe because it would limit their freedom. The very things that the sedentary culture saw as signs of freedom, "owning" (paying a mortgage on) your own home so you are free from the threat of homelessness (not really, but it's easier to believe you are), "owning your own vehicle" so you can go where ever you want, (except you can't because you need a steady job to pay for the car and it's maintenance) were seen as threats and limitations to the squatters. The dominant culture strove to gentrify neighborhoods in order to help these "poor" (in the sense of being pathetic) people who knew no other life than living on the streets without seeking to understand that it IS possible for a directly opposite value system to be just as valid. I agree that declaring some a value to be "western" or "eastern" can cause opposition. However, it is equally dangerous to say "Well, we all agree that we want freedom therefore 'deep down' we all want the same thing." I have seen this lead to people who define the terms commonly used in these lists of values one way forcing, compelling, or coercing those who use a completely different definition to live according to their values. Thus the "Deep down all humans have the same values" has the same "We must 'help' these poor confused people who think that what they hold as important matters understand that what we hold as important is really what matters" effect as saying "We must spread Western values". The only difference is the "X culture's values" recognizes that there are people who value different ways of living than "X culture" while the "All humans value the same things" denies the humanity of anyone who does not value the things on that list as they are defined by the speaker. A culture that values conformity will say that they value freedom of expression because conformity is necessary to create a safe environment for that expression. A culture that values "family" and defines it as those you are legally related to will look completely different than a culture that values "family" and defines it as those you happen to find yourself among who respect what you have to contribute to the community, etc., etc. Maslow was probably right. (I have heard arguments against his order but none that said there is no hierarchy of needs). However, we must not take that commonality to mean that the things/principles each group values as a way to meet those needs will be the same. (Yes, there was drug use among the squatters but anyone who thinks it doesn't happen among sedentary cultures is fooling themselves and the means of measuring which groups it is more prevalent in are usually skewed in favor of the culture of those doing the research.)
I believe we definitely should phase out the phrase Western values in this context because all it does is try to justify at best mere smugness and at worst xenophobia
As someone who grew up in Mediterranean Europe and living almost literally my whole adult life in East Asia, let me tell you... We human beings aren't really all that different as it might seem on the surface. As for the values, we've been influencing each other intercontinentally for as long as the dawn of civilisations. So yes, please, stop using "western" this and "western" that, AT LEAST within academical contexts and situations, because it's too vague of an expression, thus meaning nothing. Leave that kind of speech for casual colloquialisms.
The "west" also holds on to some values that I wouldn't describe as positive but those are conveniently left out of the whole western values paradigm. Materialism is a pretty bad value to hold in my opinion but it's extremely common in "western" society.
I believe some values today _are_ exclusively Western. Governments that will consistently uphold the civil liberties of its residents and will go against the majority to protect its minorities from discrimination are always culturally western. I'm Indonesian. Indonesia is supposed to have a secular government, yet recently our legislature passed a law that bans sex outside of marriage to protect Islamic values, and thus imposing their values on a sizable minority who aren't even part of their religion and on moderate Muslims who wanted no such law. Hell, a lot of Muslims (mostly from the middle class and secular intellectuals) are also against the law. The legislature also passed a law that makes it illegal to insult government institutions and its officials, while conveniently leaving out what "insult" actually means. It's deliberately written ambiguously to make it easier to punish critics if the government wanted to. We also have law that makes it illegal to blaspheme. It's technically written to protect all recognized religions, but somehow people are only punished if they blaspheme Islam, particularly if they're a religious minority. We have Imams that have openly called for the removal or forcible conversions of Christians, Hindus, and indigenous animists yet nothing has ever happened to those people. Sh-t like these will never fly in the west. Hell, y'all in America couldn't even put a Bible quote for a public school motto in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming without someone making a fuss about it.
7:53 He was explaining that all four of the elements have been achieved only in Western Civilisations, not that none of them have been individually achieved by others. All 4 in unison is uniquely Western
Non of the 4, except maybe the universal human rights, were developed in "The West'. Scientific method was developed by an Arab mathematician Ibn al-Haytham. Religious tolerance existed even in the Mongol empire. It was rather the norm everywhere except in Europe. Slavery was abolished 100s of years before any Western country abolished it. As usual these chauvinists' claims are all Eurocentric pseudohistory.
@@ilovecoffee7623 while yes things develop from everywhere there are things unique to the West mostly because of Catholicism, Protestanism and more broadly European culture (or at least a collection of them) so while Western Values do exist they aren't really isolated as Christianity, Algebra and many more things come from Eastern cultures as Culture and science aren't confined to one place nor even culture. Courtly love even came from Islam, while scientific books that both the Church and Islam (Abrahamic Religions) preserved came from the Greeks and Romans (Pagans), Islam even developed Algebra based on the Greeks.
@@ilovecoffee7623 let us start witht he claim, the full scientific method was only there with Francis Bacon, but Ibn Al Haytham certainly made progress, the mongol empire is particuarly uniquely tolerant, but we consider it a western value because again it has been best achieved in the west. and before someone claims the persia human rights thing wikipedia has this to say on the Cyrus Cylinder "The interpretation of the Cylinder as a "charter of human rights" has been described by various historians as "rather anachronistic" and tendentious.[11][111][112][113][14] It has been dismissed as a "misunderstanding"[12] and characterized as political propaganda devised by the Pahlavi regime.[99] The German historian Josef Wiesehöfer comments that the portrayal of Cyrus as a champion of human rights is as illusory as the image of the "humane and enlightened Shah of Persia".[106] D. Fairchild Ruggles and Helaine Silverman describe the Shah's aim as being to legitimise the Iranian nation and his own regime, and to counter the growing influence of Islamic fundamentalism by creating an alternative narrative rooted in the ancient Persian past."
@@ilovecoffee7623 Rest of the world abolished slavery 100 years before Europe did? Where? India still had slaves, Arabs and Ottomans were trading with them before Europe came, and after Europe abolished slavery, and the Indonesian archipelago had a lot of slavery too. Don’t be fooled, there are more slaves now, than there were at any point in human history, and almost none of them are in western countries.
Ah, like so many debates now this centers on semantics. “Western values” has been an easy albeit admittedly imperfect shorthand. How about “enlightenment values” as a substitute? It is more descriptive than “values”, acknowledges the origin of the collection of said values as popularly spread in recent centuries, and sheds the difficulties surrounding the labeling of region.
Personally I'd say that the whole East-West dichotomy is much older and has it's origins in the Persian Wars, when the Greek city-states (polis) united to fight the Persian Empire under Darius and Xerxes. Other than that this was a very great and informative video Mr. Beat. Keep up the good work. 👍😉
Ironically, Persia was the very first "superpower" in world history, and thus the model for all the powerful, cosmopolitan nation-states that followed it. We wouldn't have such "modern" concepts as multiculturalism and religious tolerance if it had not been for Darius and Xerxes. In a way, the Greeks and other subsequent imperialists carried on the Persian legacy more than they replaced it.
I would be careful with equating every west-east divide in history with this contrast: Since most of these values are so universal and spread all across the globe, a lot of the discourse today has its roots more in colonialism, the cold war and the war on terror. Personally, i think western values are a non-helpful social construct, and are more used as the ideology behind these conflicts. (Excuse my english- not my first language)
Western values are such broad and nebulous terms that it can mean anything the orator wants it to mean and I think we all understand different countries have similar yet subtly different value system based on their culture that is informed by their consumption of media, religion, etc. Western values as it stands is mostly used as a dogwhistle for "back in my days" to champion regressive ideals and oppose social progress. Edit: I don't think democracy, liberty and justice are specific to just "the West". I'm sure most of the world looks up to those ideas. The West is also not a monolith.
The rest of the world does not look up to those values otherwise they would probably have them. The middle east generally has no interest in what the “west” is like.
@@islas357 false, plenty of western movements and ideologies in the middle east, of course it is one of the places where more resistance is given to western values, but you even have countries like lebanon or israel that are basically western
Honestly, I haven't really heard this term much, and I am over 40, and I am actually interested in such things. Judeo-Christian ethics is what I usually heard mentioned. Sadly, the people who use this term often don't deeply know what those are either. I have a good idea what those are, or at least the Christian ones. Also interesting is that they added to what was said in the scriptures. You can see this with Chivalry or the values that were attempted to instill into knights (often they did not really achieve this though...still these were the goals in addition to the usual Christian values). According to the Song of Roland: 1. To fear God and maintain His Church 2. To serve the liege lord in valor and faith 3. To protect the weak and defenseless 4. To give succor to widows and orphans 5. To refrain from the wanton giving of offense 6. To live by honor and for glory 7. To despise pecuniary reward 8. To fight for the welfare of all 9. To obey those placed in authority 10. To guard the honor of fellow knights 11. To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit 12. To keep faith 13. At all times to speak the truth 14. To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun 15. To respect the honor of women 16. Never to refuse a challenge from an equal 17. Never to turn the back upon a foe Another version: 1. Faith 2. Charity (giving to those in need, out of love for humanity) 3. Justice 4. Sagacity (wisdom, insight, perceptiveness) 5. Prudence (a. the ability to govern and discipline oneself by the use of reason, b.sagacity or shrewdness in the management of affairs, c. skill and good judgment in the use of resources, d. caution or circumspection as to danger or risk) 6. Temperance (habitual moderation in the indulgence of the appetites or passions) 7. Resolution 8. Truth 9. Liberality (the quality of being open to new ideas and free from prejudice) 10. Diligence 10. Hope 11. Valor And I have seen other lists too. There is also the Tree of Virtues, where 57 virtues are presented. And, those values got tweaked again with Humanism during the Renaissance, in which Christianity was put on the back burner, and Roman values were elevated...mostly because being wealthy and a jerk was not congruent with Christianity...and rich jerks wanted to be able to be conceited without the guilt. Roman values gave them this freedom. If you want to learn about Roman values, reading Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is an excellent introduction. It is very interesting, and there is some good stuff, like responsibility to community, but there are definite shortcomings in Roman values. For example, Charity is not something they would ever consider. A Roman only gave if they were going to get something of similar value back...other than an inheritance given to a child, or other relative. People were just allowed to suffer, and die, without anyone giving a care. They basically believed that the Gods controlled who was suffering, so who are we to interfere? There is even some risk that you will incur the same wrath. The best you can do is be sure to fulfill all your obligations to your god or gods, so that crap does not happen to you or your children. Things of course moved on. The shedding of class to varying degrees, the disintegration of monarchies, and the embrace of either meritocracy or populism created and continues division. Various combinations of the glorification of mythology, the embrace of Social Darwinism, the embrace of "Enlightened Self Interest", the embrace of "class warfare", and these previous Roman values, including the elevation of the individual, alone or in combination, are constantly molded into new angles for personal pride and assertion of power over, and justification of cruelty to others. And thrown into all this, the massive technological and industrial advantages of some nations guaranteed some invention of justification for conquest of the rest of the World rather than simply elements of their own societies. And apart from these things, there are the new values present and being discovered in good engineering, good science, educational excellence, excellence in competition (athletics, games), art, music, and story telling...and sadly manipulation (advertising, propaganda, lawyer skills, & salesman). And there are some odds and ins. Escapism into drugs, humaneness toward animals, age limits on things that can potentially dramatically damage one's life, informed consent as sufficient protection of the public (childhood, as we know it, is actually a recent invention), valuing nature and ecosystems, adrenaline junkyism, NIMBYism (idea that you should have a say in things you don't own...things others want to do with their property).
This sounds really interesting and i'd like to dive deeper into this. Currently reading Marcus Aurelius' meditations aswell, and I can definitely see what you mean. I'd love to read more about the Song of Roland and medieval virtues aswell, are there any books you recommend for that?
This comment was a lot more insightful than the video. I'm interested in the nuance. Granted, there are grifters speaking code to get power. But I don't think Mr. Beat is accomplishing anything by reducing the discussion to that impulse alone. There is a recognizable bias in what he's saying which he isn't admitting to. I'd much rather see a lively discussion of the history of the contradictions and a way to move forward in the reality of the world we live than just one more self satisfied sophomoric deconstruction that's dumbed down for the kids.
Meditations 1:17 'To the gods Im indebted for...whenever I wished to help any man in his need, or on any other occasion, I was never told that I had not the means of doing it; and that to myself the same necessity never happened, to receive anything from another' THE EIGHTH BOOK OF THE DIALOGUES of Seneca, book 3 'The duty of a man is to be useful to his fellow-men; if possible, to be useful to many of them; failing this, to be useful to a few; failing this, to be useful to his neighbours, and, failing them, to himself: for when he helps others, he advances the general interests of mankind' I never read it so you might be able to point me toward it. Is this not the generic stance toward giving to others in need in stoicism?
@@nemdenemam9753 I've read Meditations several times over and, yes, this is the general sentiment about such topics. However, a big confounding factor I noticed in my analysis: Marcus Araleus strikes me as a classic roman in his sense of quazi-collectivism. In my mind, he has an almost nationalistic nature, a sense that Roman society is supreme in part due to the harmonious and mutually beneficial interactions within their society. Naturally, such attitudes of charity and fraternity do not seem to extend to ALL people as a matter of "ethics", but just the ones within one's own "societal machine", such that "this" machine may outcompete "that" one, as a matter of stoic pragmatism. (i.e. the Roman machine vs. various barbarian machines, for example.).
@@CagetheOnion so is this a correct summary of your answer: 'Marcus Aurelies would considered charity good as long as it's between romans'? What would you say to Seneca saying 'for when he helps others, he advances the general interests of mankind'? Where does this specificity toward romans come up? Can you please provide me chapters which show that stoics were against charity toward non romans? Or in case I misunderstood you, can you give me chapters which shows they were against charity in principle? Also are you in disagreement with the original commenter? Who says that any kind of charity goes against their philosophy. 'Roman values were elevated...mostly because being wealthy and a jerk was not congruent with Christianity...and rich jerks wanted to be able to be conceited without the guilt....Charity is not something they would ever consider. ... People were just allowed to suffer, and die, without anyone giving a care.'
Don't worry. Unless you're still living in Eastern Europe, you are still had a Western Values. In fact, Russia has already adopts Western Values since Peter the Great(or Pyotr I Romanov). And yes. 1682 marks the beginning of the Westernisation of Russia.
Honestly, a more accurate phrase would literally be "liberal" values. Freedom of speech, free markets, human rights and fairness and equality, has existed all throughout human history, and was never at all exclusive to Europe.
Mr. Beat, sir, this is the most thought provoking video I've seen from you yet. I often spout off to my family (they can't escape) about Western Values and American Values. As you rightfully point out, many people in the public eye who carry on most about Western Values are in fact undermining many of those good "values." Based on this look in the mirror you've provided, I'm going to be a lot more carefully about casually using this term without at least putting context around it in the future. Some of those videos you showed were boorish to the point of being cringe-worthy. Good going Mr. Beat!!
Human rights being labeled as "Western Values" entirely ignores the "first declaration of human rights" from Cyrus the Great, famously not from the west.
wikipedia has this to say "The interpretation of the Cylinder as a "charter of human rights" has been described by various historians as "rather anachronistic" and tendentious.[11][111][112][113][14] It has been dismissed as a "misunderstanding"[12] and characterized as political propaganda devised by the Pahlavi regime.[99] The German historian Josef Wiesehöfer comments that the portrayal of Cyrus as a champion of human rights is as illusory as the image of the "humane and enlightened Shah of Persia".[106] D. Fairchild Ruggles and Helaine Silverman describe the Shah's aim as being to legitimise the Iranian nation and his own regime, and to counter the growing influence of Islamic fundamentalism by creating an alternative narrative rooted in the ancient Persian past."
Of course I value you. History is my second or third hobby and you have taught me a lot. I have always valued teachers, professes and educators. When I used to manage apartments I always gave them discounts. I’ve voted to increase my own taxes to pay them more. When I was a child in elementary school the Vietnam War was on television on the news. I absolutely hated it. So since about second grade I realized our country was spending too much money on war and not enough on education. Things have not improved. My grandfather was a judge and was on the cover of their little local newspaper because he overturned a tax law that would help schools. I was so disappointed in him for that. But he put together and oil well trust for my mother and I only. My mom has Alzheimer’s. As I’m taking over I found out her brother in law sold most of the parcels of land with mineral rights. That happened in Oklahoma even though we both live in Florida. That trust was none of his business, he never even met my grandfather. I don’t know what to do. Lawyers want money. And if a judge rules he has to pay me, he could just say he doesn’t have it anymore and file bankruptcy. That was my grandfather’s legacy and my only hope of ever retiring. I’m 57. It’s hard to save when you’re alone and in a housing crisis.
I agree with most of what you say but 2 bones to pick. One is it's a little off I think to consider Islamic nations promoting Sharia law to be a small group of extremists. Not every Muslim majority nation but most seem to be run by these Sharia law values. Don't get me wrong clearly not every Muslim wants to live like this as can be seen by the protests and the number of Muslims who want to leave those countries for Europe or North America. But enough like those values in order them to control several nations. Secondly I don't think individualism is a non controversial value, I find it extremely controversial. In my view individualism is a value that causes most of us to do the bare minimum for our neighbors and our community. Don't get me wrong I believe in individual liberty, but individualism is a problem. To me the combination of individual liberty with a collective culture like what you can see in Japan or South Korea is far more ideal. Compare the fits that were thrown here about mask mandates while in Japan and South Korea masking up when they were sick was a part of the culture anyways and there was little backlash.
Had really never even thought much about this verbiage, but I have heard it all the time my whole life. It's sort of a sneaky 'otherizer' we all accept. Thanks for the vid!
Thats in the direction of some real enlightenment. And obviously ‘race’ on the level of a concept is racist, a basis for division. If one were to say ‘the west is the best’ it would better be said tongue in cheek with a wink and a smile.
I value you Mr. Beat! Thank you from an elementary school teacher in Washington state. I’m always brushing up on my US history with your videos for teaching my 5th graders. I like the value of respecting the diverse cultures of the world!
Excelent video! It sheds light on a topic that had been making noise for me. It is incredible the way the media have to make up racism and xenophobia with beautiful words.
I totally agree "western values" is a very outdated term. Also, countries are different, values will be weighted differently depending on circumstances. There is also the whole "why does (for example Nigeria) not just do as or become more as (for example Denmark) to fix their problem" argument which is extremely thin and simple argument to, for the most part, very complex problem/situation.
@@sagebias2251 In short by placing the word Western and all of the connotations that has with it in front of the word Values (as in fundamental ones that all Humans beings everywhere can and do share) has perverted the meaning of both what the West is and what Values are. They're not lines on a map, they're not the color of skin, they're not the belief in this or that god...They're Human Values we've learned to accept, embrace, love because people across the world stood up and fought and died for us to learn as important and needed for an ethical functional equal world to be made. People from any form of Non-West idea you can imagine included in those sacrifices for Humanity's advancement. It is also clear how corruption and perversion of some has caused this terminology to clearly be inherently well racist or supremacist. Which is a clear violation of the logic behind these Values...So even internally without outside criticism there's a problem that must be addressed. Simple solution...Just accept reality and ignore propaganda. Call them Values or Humanitarian Values instead of Western Values.
@@flamesofchaos13 I think it’s important they are called western values because of the importance behind it. I hate how nowadays people try to find everything offensive and change the meaning of every word or phrase. They are western values. They are also human values, but they became popularized through the western world, and that is extremely important. Especially since there are still many places in the world that are very brutal and dictatorial. Human values is too vague and can be used by anybody to mean whatever they want. Western values is used to describe a specific branch of human values that is the most effective.
1. I always get annoyed when people say "race has no genetic basis." This statement can lead people to believe that there are no geographically concentrated genetic traits within humanity, which is simply false. Chinese people are on average genetically different from Africans, who are on average genetically different from Europeans. We use the term "race" to refer to broad categories of easily discernable genetic differences. For example, the genetic difference between Europeans and Africans which causes the former to have pale skin and the latter to have dark skin are easily discernable to the eye and usually (but not always) are a clear indicator of where a person or their ancestors came from. While I don't disagree that our notion of race is over simplified and arbitrary and has been used in the past by Europeans and non-Europeans alike to justify horrifying treatment of different ethnicities, the statement that "race has no genetic basis" is objectively false. 2. I think more of the supposedly "western values" are unique to the West, or more precisely uncommon outside the West, than you give them credit for. Some of them really are universal human behavioral traits, like just being good people, not stealing, taking care of one another, etc, but some of them, particularly the political and economic values are pretty unique to the West (and places the West has influenced). As you rightfully pointed out, most of them can be more precisely defined as "enlightenment" values (although many have roots in pre-enlightenment European or near-Eastern culture). The fact is that certain things like democracy, capitalism, political equality, secularism, and freedom of expression are pretty uncommon outside the West. They *have* existed in some other cultures, but looking at all cultures across all of history these things *tend* to be the exception rather than the norm. No value is unique to just one culture, however I think it is the unique combination of odd and uncommon values which gives the "West" its definitive character. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single civilization in all of history that has strongly valued all of these things I just mentioned, and implemented them to the degree that the West has. Medieval Islamic society may have had very advanced science but it certainly was not secular or democratic. Ancient and medieval China may have been capitalist but it certainly wasn't secular either, and definitely didn't have freedom of expression or democracy. To be fair, not even all "Western" countries exhibit all of these characteristics. To summarize, none of these values are 100% unique to the West and I think it's a lazy oversimplification to just label all of them as "Western" values, but the West as a whole does have a pretty unique combination of various unusual and uncommon values which has given it a unique character throughout history.
I would call it "contemporary values" because some of things like equality between citizens, political involvement, and freedom of enterprise are things that we only agreed were valuable on a global scale pretty recently, and don't really follow any geographic trend.
Every time I think about it, I value the fact that I'm born west of Systerbäck (fi: Siestarjoki, ru: Sestroretsk), which means I've grown up in a country free of feudal and Communist oppression, and its aftermath, which means I've grown up in a country where individualism has been allowed to exist in spite of often being governed by Socialist parties, which means we can discuss a future membership in NATO. Anyone from Sweden or Finland should know what I'm talking about, for the rest of you it's hard to explain by using simple, restrictive, limiting, human words.
I think we can soundly argue for the existence of "Western Values" without needing to discover the perfect list that composes them. The term is socially constructed and the interpretation is always up to debate. However, the term itself is meaningful to many people, so it is worth investigating justification for the term. First, it is reasonable to be skeptical of any claim that calls itself a "Western Value". This skepticism, however, cannot deny the historical development of Europe's intellectual cultural development. By Europe, I really mean the peoples around the Mediterranean, as the Islamic tradition counts as an important contributor to Western thought, regardless of the belief of racists. In this sense, we can view the concept of "Western Values" as a set of norms and beliefs that answered the particular needs of these peoples throughout time. Another important reason to keep the term is that it is a contradistinction against other values, such as those of the original peoples of the Americas, even if it leads to an ironic interpretation of the term. By referring to "Western Values" in a cosmopolitan fashion as just "Values" we assume that these are values that everyone can share, which may not be true. Everyone on a survey may say they believe in Equality, but everyone has an interpretation of that term that is greatly influenced by their society. So much so, that it may not even be recognized as the same concept by the differing perspectives. We can see this in European notions of Equality that differ from Indigenous American notions of Equality, especially in the interpretations within their respective legal systems. The same can be said for China, India, and every other influential culture in the world. So to summarize, we can keep using the term, so long as we recognize the historical perspective these ideas originate from and refrain from universalizing these normative assumptions.
the islamic tradition is literally muslims preserving Greek and Roman culture and literature which was reintroduced into Europe so yeah Islam influenced Europe in Nothing except preserving what the Byzantines already knew. they invented nothing but Islamic terror and Hijabs. you can give them Algebra and Alchemy but thats about it.
@@covfefe1787 Muslims did invent the scientific method, therefore science is a Muslim invention. There’s also astronomy, chemistry, medicine, surgery, math, optics. The list goes on and on and on. Europe would still be in the dark ages if it weren’t for Europeans studying in Muslim countries. Learn your history before you comment on something you have little knowledge of.
Western values are also the ones no one talks about which were the reason for colonization around the world, endless wars up to the present, and a couple world wars. Can’t have the good without the bad. 🤣
@@Wakamolewonder they didn’t it’s all from Greek text the Islamic scripture prevents Muslims from using technology past the time of Mohammed it would be very unislamic Saudi’s just last year opened movie theaters in the country. Give me sources because every Islamic advancement was literally based on Greek texts which they preserved. Later they came back to Europe during the Renaissance and it still would have happened anyway the dark ages ended in the 13th century and revival began by the new Holy Roman Empire.
@@Wakamolewonder those aren’t western values anymore. Plus European colonization have more benefits to other people than drawbacks. the world would be chaotic without European imperialism if not Europe someone else would do it. Don’t hate the player hate the game not my problem we were granted a geographical headstart compared to other cultures.
Even though I agree with the argument of the video. It's important to point out that exists non western value, that are kinda exclusive to certain regions, such as those influenced by Dharma and the teaching of Confucius
@@iammrbeat First of all. I'm so happy to "talk" to you. I'm a big fan. I'm referring examples like in parts India where vegetarians are a majority, they treat animals in a different way, at least cows. Or the non-rebellious attitude towards institutions/rulers of Confucius ideas. Also can be noted that this societies are less individualistic than the "west". This are some examples that came into my mind right now. Of course I'm not saying that this are exclusively non-western but in this gradient of values that this our world these stand out in some areas.
@@JLZcoche Yes I am Indian and partially agree but just wanted to point out only 30% people are vegetarian and other 70% are non veg but most of them dont consume pork and beef. Also India is the least vaccine hesitant nation which can be because of collective nature. India is a democracy and has rights for individual but people think what to do in collective way but as time is moving India is becoming individualist like west. I think its not more abut values but change in thinking and beliefs which happened way before in west but is happening now in other places.
11:05 When people talk about the Islamic world as opposed to the West, I think most people are specifically talking about Islamic fundamentalists who have completely and explicitly rejected the West, not majority-Muslim places with secular governments like Turkey and Indonesia. Nobody says "Don't go to Indonesia, am I right? All those suicide bombers over there."
Meh, Indonesia is far from some of those "western values" characteristics that mr. beat was pointing out. I'd be surprised (and glad) if i found out I'm not the only one who supports lgbtq+ right in my small town in Indonesia.
They are generally referring to how people in these cultures have different values. You can measure these differences in belief empirically and compare them. For instance, Sharia law is antithetical to the separation of church and state.
I went to West Jr High school in LFK... we thought our selves superior to South and Central Jr High schools :). That said, thank you for this video. I spent much of my adult life in the Army, deployed to various places around the world. I was always surprised at how there are more commonalities with other cultures than differences... and that the differences are maligned and amplified by those seeking gain or keep power.
Universal human rights is the best term in my opinion, it doesn't matter where good ideas originate or are being followed. It matters if they are good ideas.
Sometimes when I hear people from the far right or televangelists talk about Western values I start to wonder what our Swedish values are, or for that matter Scandinavian or even European values. But most of the values on “your list” are also our values, but how to interpret them and adopt them is maybe very much different in different parts of our world. But VALUES, is OK for me.
You deliver excellent content to your audience. It's very interesting material. All of your effort put into creating this video is much appreciated. I'm truly grateful for your help!
Why do some people have to call them "western values"? Do they think that people not living in the west are not allowed to value the same thing? How arrogant are they? You yourself are not one of those enlightment thinkers. You're just an ordinary guy like everyone else on earth. You don't get to take the honor of something which you have nothing to do with! The heritage of those enlightment thinkers are treasures for all human beings not just westerners. You value things doesn't mean that you own those things, capisce?
I have been thinking about this video and while it is very good, I would argue that "Western culture" became more defined within individuals (not governments) after the conflicts of the 20th century-particularly WW2. Being "Western" in Germany is very different from being "Western" in the United States which unlike Germany, was born in diversity so the enlightenment values that served as the context for the Revolution connect people to the idea of a "western nation" to establish a shared value system. Many indivuduals draw on history to frame their understandings of present day events and processes. "The West" in people's minds today has been redefined because of WW2. Those that identify with freedom, liberty, choice, transparency and limited government "think" those are "Western ideas" whereas the ideologies that shape Communism, Facism, and/or any heavy hand of government is thought of a return to the past or pre-revolutionary era- where governments had all the power and thus are NOT "western". In sum, "The West" is not a place or a nation or an empire, but a confluence of ideas that shaped beliefs/ideologies (more of a cultural identifier )and anyone who adopts the basic principles that resulted from Age of Enlightenment and resulting Revolutions, as well as the application of that thought to explain the outcomes of WW2, is considered "Western" today.
I don’t think it’s a problem to use the term western values on its own it’s just the people who do usually use it tend to have more problematic views and use “western values” as a scapegoat
Although it’s not really measurable, I never really felt like here in America, my culture as a Mexican or much of any Latin America would be considered “western.” A big chunk of western America used to be Mexico (like where I am in CA), and yet its as if it’s a surprise to see so many Latino people for some.
Since we have discovered that you’re in Canada, edit your comment to say “Canada” NOT “America” and “BC” NOT “CA” and replace “western America” with “western Canada”.
I follow and support "Western Values" but despise pretty much everyone featured in this video other than Mr. Beat himself. Hell of a position to be in.
Would the phrase "European Enlightenment Values" be a more accurate moniker for what is often attributed to "Western" values; Liberal Democracy/Republicanism, Freedom of Expression, The Scientific method (as opposed to simply "science" which every culture has cultivated to a varying degree), etc?
Yes,this is a more accurate phrase.Although it is still mistaken,as the term "european enlightenment value" presumed that enlightenment mindset was widespread or widely accepted in Europe
Because,when we read European history,enlightenment values were very controversial even in the most secular and democratic European states. Reactionary anti enlightenment revolts,such as carlists in Spain or ultramontanists in Italy occured frequently (and very violently)
PS: My A-Level Politics teacher (that's, er, 17-18yo pre-college studies to US readers?) was a student of Naill Ferguson when he was doing his own history degree become becoming a teacher. This was in about the early 90s before he went full into what he's known for now, and just made contrarian and annoying TV documentaries. Apparently as a tutor he was "a bit of a twat" and everything I've read about him since has backed that up.
I would agree that any specific value can be held by other regions and groups of people. But the collection of them all together originated in the West during enlightenment. While other places may say they hold some of the same values, their definition may be very different. One persons view of safety may be very different to someone else. (Some people may feel safe when they have a gun, others may be terrified by the concept. But they both value safety). I can see how calling these values, “Western Values” can be counter productive. But implying everyone holds these values is flat out wrong. Often if they do, the values came from the West. I think it’s fair to call them “Enlightenment Values/ideas” but again, saying Values isn’t accurate.
Well when the crusaders sacked the very Christian Constantinople is released a tidal wave of knowledge and inspiration that created the Renaissance. Without that sacking the western part of Europe would've stayed in the dark ages much longer and the enlightenment wouldn't have happened in Western Europe.
The western world is basically the Euro-Christian civilization, including all the nations which have been established on the Greco-Roman foundations, and where Christianity is the dominant religion, so I wouldn't make a distinction between the Roman-Catholic and the Orthodox spheres, or I would even go so far as qualify the pre-islamic cultures in the Middle-East and North-Africa as remains of the western world, as they played an important role within the Greco-Roman civilization, and for development of Christianity.
This is the exact same thing when some people still wanna believe secularism is an exclusive property for atheists. (when in fact, it really isn't) Because the founding fathers who have created our secular constitution weren't even atheists. They were deists, and some of them were even christians. So, therefore, theists can also embrace secular values. I personally have no idea where do people get this weird idea that being secular is a reserved thing for atheists. It really isn't.
To think this video constitutes an accurate and unbiased discussion of the subject matter requires a truly profound ignorance of history and contemporary reality, as well as an total lack of intuition. Near every point made is shallow and/or blatantly incorrect.
Why consider capitalism a value while it is a system? Value is principle and system is just a means. It is important to differentiate between the two. Keep in mind that systems are for people and not people to be sacrificed for systems and ways of life.
To answer your final questions, my favorite western value is the Wendy's 4 for $4, which is a great value at a low price. My favorite eastern value is 27,800 Japanese yen, which is roughly the value of 200 apples, if you wanted to buy that many apples for some reason. My favorite southern value is barbecues, and my favorite northwestern value is Seattle Seahawks fans being loud enough to create miniature earthquakes. And yes Mr Beat, I do value you
Do you people even know where the term Western comes from? It's actually been referred to people living in Europe because that's what they call the Europeans a lot of times throughout history. When you have travelers and people that traded that went Eastward they called them westerners, sometimes they call all Europeans Norseman or Franks. Why did they call them? Because they're people that traveled East from the West and their distinctively a different culture. Whuh who would have thought? The term Western has an origin? Wow.
I think Western Civilization is a coherent concept that can be discussed. I also think we can discuss East Asian civilization for instance by identifying the philosophies, cultures, and history of East Asia which make it different from Europe or America. For example one could make a serious case that many of the ideals of the CCP contain many Confucian concepts.
S G I think you are totally wrong in this matter, and your argument fall apart in your quote, the CCP stand for Chinese Communist Party, Communism itself a western value, socialism, and nationalism, is very Western ideology! If you uesed your standards, it's quite funny how right wings politicians, associated capitalizalism with western and remove globalism, Communism and socialism from western values
@@Cecilia-ky3uw no not, really, the CCP had very anti-Confucianism except in recent years in Xi time, the adopted more nationalistic terms, and Yugoslavia, and Cuba adopted communism they aren't Asian or Eurasian, And we must agree that communism was fundamental a western ideology stime from western people Karl Mark was German, the first adoption of communism was in Paris communi government 1870, not in Russia, I think the linking of CCP and Confucianism is nonsense to be honest
@@khaleddekar2188 Let us start with Yugoslavia, it is in the balkans, which could be considered somewhat eurasian culturally, although with heavy european influence, Cuba sort of depends, in fact the status of all of latin america sort of depends
"Basically it refers to Europe or any part of the world that has historically been heavily influenced by Europe..." *Do you have any idea of how little does that narrows it down?*
Oh no! There are people featuring in this video who think their culture and values are better than everyone else's. This must be the first time in human history that ever happened.
"rule of law" is my favourite western value that's a completely general human concept. And queuing, the British think that making an orderly queue to receive some good or service is simply impossible elsewhere, or that nobody in the UK would ever cheat the queue (some people do and often enough)
I agree that calling values "Western" is not useful; if they're good values they should belong to everybody. But pretending that the only problem with "Muslim values" is a few extremists is disingenuous. As a lesbian atheist, I'm well aware that there is no Muslim majority country where I could have lived openly and safely, if I had been born there instead of in the West
I’m not really convinced by Mr. Beats argument here. I just wish he looked into the underpinnings of the values from the West and East. We can always find anomalies in history, the more interesting question is why are they there? Is it cognitive dissonance? What led to them developing? My personal methodology to determine if “Western values” really exist would be to determine which philosophical and religious principle lead to greatest flourishing and then determine what nations/peoples hold to them and their results. I’m just bummed out that the important questions, in regard to this discussion, of religion and philosophy were left out in the video.
I think you will find it impossible to get an agreed upon answer to “which philosophical and religious principle lead to greatest flourishing.” If we had an agreement to that then there would be very little reason to argue about anything.
I know this isn’t related to the video, but I’m just curious to know if you could live in any other state other Kansas or Nebraska, what state would you pick.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Should we no longer use the phrase "Western values?"
Also, my cat of 19 years, Ellie, who I refer to in this video, died on New Year's Eve, after I filmed this. I dedicate this video to her.
And now I need to find a new cat producer.
No
Hay mr beat great vid can u talk about Native Americans just an idea that’s all
No
We should phase out the phrase
Western Values is a dumb phrase, if you wanna refer to liberty and democracy then refer to liberty and democracy, no reason to try and make it geopolitical
One aspect of this that you didn't touch on, is that there are a lot of ideas and values that originated in "The West" that usually aren't considered "Western Values" Nazism and Communism both originated in Europe, but they are not usually considered a part of "Western Values".
Good point. Additionally, western values have improved over time. Things like racism are no longer considered acceptable.
Very good point indeed
“The West” is such a self-defined term so as to be essentially meaningless-like you say, there’s clearly a cherry-picking of those values and heritages…if we wanted to place a stronger definitional line, I’d put it as those places directly influenced by the Roman Empire-basically, Europe and North Africa and the Middle East
The Roman Empire was arguably the most influential power in world history for mainly obvious reasons (extent of landmass and adoption and spread of Christianity) but think about all those indirect and symbolic outcomes, like the Reformation and colonialism and imperialism and even liberal democracy (the “Founding Fathers” after all modeled a fair bit of the federal government on the Roman Repulbic and even the political theories of Polybius)…but that’s just my take, if I had to put some actual meaning behind a mostly empty catechism
@@warlordofbritannia I don't agree that the Roman Empire was in fact a part of Western Civilisation, the way Roman society operated would be so alien to us today or even people living in Western Europe 1000 years ago as to make it effectively entirely its own "classical" civilisation, one from which the west, the Islamic world and the orthodox world have sprouted from. It is much easier to see a common culture that today forms the modern west deriving from the Carolingian Empire, one that was Christian, Feudal and decentralised in the way power was vestiged in a way that the Roman Empire was not.
@@hpsauce1078
Eh, I guess I get your point…but the Carolingian Empire derived their legitimacy by aping Rome-crowned by the Pope of the ROMAN Catholic Church in ROME, their empire becoming thus known as the Holy ROMAN Empire…a friend of mine wrote his capstone thesis on how on the Karlings, with help from the Pope, basically assumed the mantle of Rome in order to cement their legitimacy, especially at a time when the Byzantines and Papacy were on poor terms and the Basileus was actually a woman…
Using the phrase "western values", which is clearly undefined, is really great for politicians, as whomever is listening can easily insert whatever values THEY like and thus feel that the politician is fighting for THEIR values (regardless of which they are).
Phrase "western values" is mainly overused by nazis and fasists now. Commies call it "traditional values" but they mean the same thing. Funny is that leader of the most "traditional values" and anti immigrant party here in Czechia is immigrant from Japan. 😀
Greed profiteering and theft form the basis of western civilisation
Politics defined
People are always listing what Western values they have in mind whenever they talk about them, so even though the list of possible values to be included in the term Western values is rather long, the term is not meaningless.
@@jongoodwin5936 point is white man success was build on stolen loot in the name of Jesus, they commit unspeakable atrocities ,made tons of evil earn tons of gold, made women and children suffer in hell to become successful countries, white man talk about human rights is like Ron Jeremy said we should not objectify women.
During my college days I was disillusioned with organized religion, but gave the originators the legitimacy of their experience. I felt all had encountered something beyond their description and could only fit their experience within their social and psychological milieu. One of the most fundamental ideas I found in all religions is, "Life is hard, help each other."
The problem with that is that "help" means different things to different people.
For example in some cultures it is socially expected to discipline ALL children not just your own.
So you tell me how you would feel with a complete stranger disciplining your child in public for misbehaving?
@@ViperXMambo Being helpful is an intention in someone's mind. You can do something helpful with negative results. That doesn't mean you weren't trying to help. How that help looks like will be different from culture to culture, but the intention will be the same.
Keep in mind that *religion is a kind of law* , and all law does is ensure the survival of a group. That's why you make rules when you want to keep a group.
Yeah did the Muslims help the berbers in North Africa? They believe they did. By exterminating and outbreeding them post conquest because many refused to convert. No, that all value systems and religions are the same, and yes, some are better. I’m not so sure the Incas would like modern Peru would they?
@@ViperXMambo that used to be our culture
My favorite northern value is penguin
WAIT A SECOND
Lol
very clever
why not a moose?
Brother?
Western values: $5 cowboy hats!
Northeastern values: $1 ice scrapers!
Midwestern values: $10 farming overalls!
Southern values: $2 grits!
Got em!
Excuse me. Ice scrapers are NORTHERN values. :)
Pacific Northwestern values: $6 craft beer!
Midwestern Values: Would rather draw 25 than calling it soda instead of pop
Northwestern values: $15 flannels
The term "Western civilization" has become more of an association to developed nations. By definition, it should include most of Latin America, a region clearly with huge influence of Europe (lenguage, religion, architecture, moral values and such), but almost everything i read about "Western civilization", only applies to North America, Australia, New Zealand and of course Europe.
Latin America should be included in Western Civilization, but imo, Western Civilization should be split into four subcategories: European (including Canada and Oceania), Slavic, American, and Latin American. To say that the same civilizational structure exists across America, Peru, Denmark, and Russia is ridiculous.
And you could even add a hybrid/“adopted” fifth western civilization of the East Asian democracies (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan).
Japan and South Korea are pretty western now as well.
Well then what about Japan, China, and Singapore then?
@@iammrbeat Wasn't Japan heavily westernized after the Perry Expedition?
@@Gbnation1 Yes and No, there was indeed a very strong western influence in Japan but most of the Japanese values didn't change to western ones, most of the values thst did change were political and not social, for example Japan and other Eastern countries still are very group based, the reverse of the west more individual perspective, the group needs is more important than the individual needs, it's is much more hierarchical with strict lines that have to be followed depending on the person's place in the social hierarchy, its not based in liberty but in compliance, which leaded to the events of Japan in WW2 and some say it is what is guiding the path of China right now, Compliance under the authority of the government. And as those societies aren't based in the individual, liberty is not a very strong sentiment, for example in Japan if someone is a suspect of a crime they will be considered gulty until proven otherwise, having a 99% conviction rate. Also Japan and Singapore have voted for the same political party since they have democracy in their country, many consider this undemocratic, I wouldn't consider east Asia a part of the western world in any way, altrough they had a very strong influence from the US (I'd say that only in a linguistic basis English influenced Jpanese and Korean in a way similar to how French influenced English, the amount of Loanwords is very surprising and large). Most of their cultural and societal values are much older and are founded in confusionism and other Eastern philosophies like Legalism or some eastern rites of Buddhism.
We live in a sad world where people put labels the wrong way for their gains or convenience. Basically, I think it is geopolitical branding and marketing.
I like how in this video, Mr. Beat was saying that we should say that people have values and what kind instead of saying "western values" or "eastern values" because nobody knows what "western values" and "eastern values" are. This way of thinking, as in generalizing and lumping a whole lot of things into one thing, also leads to a lot of confusion, for example, many Americans that I've seen go on to think that Asia is one country and one people, which is absurd.
Also, I really want to question this idea of individualism = west and collectivism = east. It seems like scholars in the past labeled it that way but to me, it just never made any sense. People all around the world just seem to have been brainwashed in schools to accept this idea. I think it is only generally valid; each country and people show varying degrees of these qualities.
Now lets all just say, democracy is a democracy, nazism is nazism, communism is communism, socialism is socialism, nationalism is nationalism, etc, instead of saying stuff like democracy is a western value and communism is an eastern value...(which the latter is just wrong) hmm... if anybody wants to label something they should be more specific like saying Confucianism is an East Asian value or more like an ideology, originating from Spring and Autumn period China and its influences were strong in China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam.
(10 mo old video but I'm here still commenting... LOL)
You are absolutely right. I have been so confused about this stereotype collectiveness and vice versa. Honestly, Chrisranity is a dominant religion in west and it promotes collectiveness.
🤔
I think the main argument for any honest person to stop using that name, is that it dumbs down so much political discourse it is counter productive to take something new out of an argument.
And also stop calling things you don't like "fascism"or "communism" or "socialism" while we're at it. :)
@Safwaan Exactly. It is just meaningless words lazily thrown around in political discourse. Like Mr. Beat said, the same goes with fascism, communism, socialism, leftism, liberalism, conservatism etc. They just get equated with "good" or "bad" and fail to really describe concepts meaningfully. Or just get abused enough to actually contradict their original meanings. i.e. "liberals want to take away guns" is said in discourse but makes no sense.
This leads to total conceptual disintegration. Where does it stop? Must every non-essential characteristic be named to describe something and how will you causally integrate them? So now instead of saying: I am a socialist. You say: I am a 30 year old person from manitoba who plays the flute, is for a 4 hour work day, wants that elon musk gives 6 billion to africa and that our national healthcare expenditure is raised by 6.5 percent.
@@gch5559 I mean, if that is what they truly believe, then yes? Things are to be discussed point by point, a single word can't describe your political view, people are more complex than that.
Ofcourse a single word can contain an immense amount of information. More importantly it integrates it into a unit. Which sees the connection between its parts. This idea can become absurd very quickly when you think about it. I would like to show you its absurdity by looking at another concept. Dog. If someone said: “you mentioned you have a pet, what kind of pet is it?” Would you say its a four legged animal with hair all over its body and a good capability of smelling? Or would you say a dog? Your argument against it would amount to saying: “Well some dogs have three legs” But this is not relevant. And if it is you can state it as such. My dog has three legs. And for the same regard a socialist can say: “I am a socialist but I am against the minimum wage increase proposed” Disintegration is a waste of time, energy, unfeasable for a human to do consistently and destructive for it ignores the reality that there are uniting characteristics among concretes and abstractions.
What puzzles me about "Western values" is how much they contradict a huge part of the political history of the West. If democracy is a Western value, were Bourbon France and Habsburg Spain not Western? Was Rome Western when it was a kingdom or only became Western when they kicked out Tarquinius? What about the Greek city-states that weren't democracies? Nowadays we have the Vatican City, is it Western? Partially, if we measure it with that list of values. So I think the so-called Western values are inconsistent with reality and confusing.
Also, Greco-Roman civilisation and empires had almost nothing to do with North European civilisation, whilst a huge amount with the middle-east. I hate how fellow North Europeans claim cultural heritage to the founding of Demoracy as they see it as a "European" invention, as if at the time Ancient Greeks would be highly offended to be even compared with Northern Europeans.
Then you don’t understand them.
Western but not Western values.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 I mean lots of judeo Christian values are contradictory to western values of separation of church and state, religious tolerance, and general enlightenment ideals
@@sirllamaiii9708 Monarchy is Christian, what's your point?
Here in our country, while studying sociology and history, rarely do we use the term "Western values" and would much prefer using terms such as Europe/an, and America/n influences. We also use the term the "West" in a more geographic sense, so it talks about Europe, the Americas, and Australia and New Zealand.
But all in all, we don't make it much of a big deal, so we just use these terms when referring to historical or cultural influences, and attach which nation first thought about it, regardless of its location.
where are you from? i’m american and “western values” is definitely hyped up
@@rafangille its name mean whispering in portuguese
Which makes more sense really as Values and Customs are transferable and can be valued lol by anyone.
Sociology is a branch of Bourgeois values to pump Capitalist ideology into the Middle Class's.
Sugar coated as nice Capitalism!
if u used West in geographic sense you can't include Australia because it's Easter than China
“No one has to own values.” That’s so well put.
Everyone has values but they have to respect each other value
@@enggurux3986 what about Nazis?
@@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish nazis killed 6 million jews USA and Uk killed 4million Muslims whats the difference
@@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish Those are values made out of politics, not values made by culture and traditions.
Values still originate in a certain place, time, and culture. Some can arise independently of each other, such as prohibitions on stealing or murdering, but some values are so specific that they could only arise in a certain place first and then be adopted by a second culture only because that second culture came into contact with the first culture which developed those values.
I think we need to rethink how we use the label “western values”. Good values and principles of responsibility and justice aren’t exclusive to just the west, they exist everywhere’s (including throughout the East). The values and principles that America is based on, exist from the power of individuals. Individuals who espouse these values can come from the West (i.e. Booker T. Washington) or the East (Malala Yousafzai). Great video as always Mr. Beat!
The West and the East both have their share of great people and those who believe in American values. George Washington and Abraham Lincoln in the West and Mahatma Gandhi in the East.
It is incredibly disingenuous to pretend that all humans believe in human rights liberal democracy and liberal freedoms most in the Islamic world are fanatically opposed to this. Even if they weren't they would still be western values because they originated in the west. Depriving westerners of this great legacy would be like saying we should no longer use the phrase "Indian numerals"
@@abrahamlincoln937 Those people are not related at all.
@@abrahamlincoln937 True stuff!
Interesting proposition! Highlighting how various GROUPS of people, organizations, entire communities, have influenced American culture may add a stronger edge to your argument too. It seems like only highlighting individuals (from either Western or Eastern backgrounds), only upholds the concept of individualism. Which is a true staple of “Western” thinking, culture, and of course values. As the US (or any country) was not formed and shaped by solely individuals it’s intriguing how we are often taught more about influential individuals than influential groups of people… at least that’s the way it seems for me.
As an Asian, I would argue that the reason why the western values are prevalent because of extreme colonialism. When the colonialists left, we took the best aspects of their culture (Parliamentary system, democracy) and infused it with our values (respect for elders etc).
I would say the biggest difference between western and Eastern values would be that the former focuses on respect for self while the latter focuses on respect for others
Well another aspect is the west (mostly the US and UK, but that's mostly what people think of when they think of the west) won world War 2 and the cold War (which was basically the second great schism) and as a result, had a great influence in the 3rd world (a reminder that 3rd world originally referred to non aligned nations during the cold war) and rebuilding failed Eastern bloc states
@I believe What you say while it is true that the USSR and China played a great role in defeating the axis, it's undeniable that their victory came much due from aid from the US. the US weakened the nazis in the battle of bulge, but Stalin insisted that the soviets defeat the nazis. It's pretty obvious how the US defeated Japan, but in case I still need to, the atomic bomb. Also the US gave a crapload of military aid to China and the ussr. Also its worth noting although more Germans and Japanese died from China and ussr, the soviets and Chinese had more fatalities than any other country.
As for the cold war, my point was as the Victors, the western powers had influenced the 3rd world as the leading world power by the end of it
@I believe What you say my whole point was it was the western powers that led the war to victory. The battle of the bulge was commanded by Eisenhower that led to the defeat of nazis in the western front before they retreated and finally surrendered in the east. As for Japan, the atomic bomb absolutely resulted in Japan's surrender, and although fear of a soviet invasion was also a factor in their surrender, it's questionable that such a fear would have continued if the US hadn't already weakened them so severely through air raids (considering they attacked the US navy head on, I'm assuming not)
How about your respect for women or LGBT? You can't say you respect others if you're bothered by what two consenting people of the same sex do in bed and like to insult and discriminate them.
@@dennisengelen2517 Personally, I couldn't care less and attitudes are slowly changing around here. But you do have to remember that a lot of anti LGBT sentiment in the east was originally due to influence from christian missionaries.
When I say "western values/culture" I mean classic liberalism and individualism. I often use it in contrast with Chinese culture (which I'm from). I started doing this when discussing parenting/childhood stuff and it went on from there.
It is true that overall, Europe and North America is more individualist than East Asia. But even that is a massive oversimplification. For example that's not true for Eastern Europe, and I'm not so sure about indigenous people of America either. But in my case, neither of these values are better, both have advantages and disadvantages. For example during covid, East Asia ended up much better because they often wore masks while the USA mostly didn't. Which is an advantage to the East Asian collectivist mindset.
@@gamermapper Oh, really? How it is not true for Eastern Europe? And what exactly this Eastern Europe is in your opinion?
As a fellow Chinese person that’s lived in America for 30 years I call bullshit. As my parents immigrated here for liberalism which the power brokers in America hates. The longer I live in America the more it strives to become China. A woman in South Carolina was jailed for her speech and a journalist in Texas was jailed for reporting what a cop told her off the record.
Hope you realize India created a caste system thanks to their religion and they look down upon the poor. Not all religions are equal.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 Incorrect. It's a selfish religion that only focuses on you.
Just came across this video after 10 months and it's a massive breath of fresh air. I applaud you for making such a well presented video to represent these messages.
I'm not so sure. While the people he cites feel odd, he also feels odd. As though it's one extremist criticizing other extremists. Also I don't think most people would claim Western values eg individualism, equality, rule of law, etc would necessarily only occur in the West. Nor is a reformist movement in Saudi Arabia necessarily a defeater of Western values being unique to the west (not saying this either). Because reformist movements in Saudi Arabia could be influenced by Western values.
@@peterc.1419 I think you're trying to make the point that Mr beat was trying to make in the video. The term "western values" is a convoluted phrase that is used to weaponize a common set of ideals around the world.
@@markpace7788 I actually disagree with this. For me "Mr Beat" comes across as the people who weaponize Western traditions. He answers polemics with his own polemics. I find PragerU odd and I find him odd too.
@@peterc.1419 interesting. I'm not familiar with Prager u, but from what I remember watching this video I felt like he took a pretty middle ground stance of trying to unite people behind humanity rather than east vs west
@@markpace7788 He cites people from PragerU. I'm not American and I think this is an American vs American thing. PragerU is like a more republican like thinktank pushing out pro-rep views.
I don't know about humanity. Right now in Ukraine Russian humans are treating Ukrainian humans worse than they'd treat their dogs or cars. I'm not sure that appealing to such things can unite people. After all why should one value another human because he is human? Seems speciest, no?
Another thing is that while many of us who defend Ukraine actually speak of Western values, people like the guy from Fox will also cite Western values but appears to be more Russia friendly.
Yes the concepts can be convoluted but I think there is someting to Western values or traditions or norms or what one wishes to call them. Still I find the guys from PragerU distasteful and odd, as though something is not right about what they're saying and I get the same feeling about Mr Beat as though he has his own agenda behind this, as do they. Thank you.
“Western Values” is a marketing slogan, nothing more, nothing less. As shown by the video, the comments, and everyone’s common sense, values transcend. The divisions in our world arise around implementation choices, priorities, and variations of risk tolerance, not from the oversimplified shit we are told like “they hate freedom”. That’s just stupid.
Islamists do preach that they don't care about freedom sometimes.
I agree with some of your points, the west does not have a monopoly on all these values. That being said there are certain values that the west definitely emphasises over others. For example the west is very much individualistic in its outlook due the englighment while the East is much more collectivist in its thinking due to the influence eastern philosophies such Buddhism and confuciansim. This explains why the cultures of Western Europe and east ask all while having common values, place certain emphasis on certain values.
Agreed
I personally believe Buddhism and it's values are far more human, scientific and better than Christian values especially when it comes to minorities, racism, women rights, universal brotherhood and peace
What is "East"?
Well sure, that’s a difference in values, but where it gets complicated is which is better? Values are a point on a continuum that changes. We are taught individualism is the most important thing, but we have very high rates of depression and social problems because of it. 50 years ago women were supposed to be married, having kids, and supporting their husbands 24/7. That’s def a collectivist value, and now we flipped and that’s oppression. But even now, some women want that and feel that’s how it should be. Good and bad are based on how everyone feels, if eastern countries feel fine with a collectivist culture, selling them on western culture isn’t easy because they don’t see the need, and western culture def flip flopped on many issues so it’s not even consistent. Western values both enslaved and then freed the slaves, they’re both western lol point is, it’s not simple to attribute values to one group, and in seeing which is better, it’s hard because if people don’t mind a lifestyle, it’s hard to say it’s bad. Always remember arranged marriages have better outcomes than self chosen ones, because you’re taking a decision off the table. Decisions aren’t always good.
@@slayerpianoman individualism trumps collectivism every single day of the year.
Well put! Especially the part regarding Western values as coded language in many aspects. I never really gave it thought but I can see how using “Western” instead of other terms can obscure certain positions or potential action that ppl may want to keep discrete. Great video
The hypocrites who use western values as coded language are a tiny minority. The beliefs of these people are antithetical to everything I believe.
I agree with Sage. Also, thank you Alec!
The term you're looking for is "dog whistle"
@@sagebias2251 There is no code but in your mind, no whistle but from your obsession. Everyone knows who the West is and what those values are as shown here. Listed often. Those values have no race or nationality except in your world. The fact they developed in Europe is a fact of history and has no bearing on their superiority or goodness for humanity except in those who hold racism and expose their inward hatred in their expressions of whistles and codes.
It definitely can be used in place of any other more "explicit" language for "unmarketable" ideologies. However, this isn't to say most people that use "Western values" ascribe to said ideologies. Its important to recognize when someone is encoding their speech and knowing when they're wearing a veil.
three pillars of western culture
1. greek philosophy (love for knowledge)
2. roman law (extremely harsh but also equal for all, in the ideal)
3. christian morality (kindness, mercy, charity...)
A lot of the inconsistencies come from the clash between the 2 and 3
And what about the Enlightenment?
@@4cps777 it was Renaissance 2.0 where they actually do a lot of building up on the prior knowledge instead of just rediscovering the classical antique (greeks and romans)
that’s why we don’t take all the aspects of roman law, and emphasize rather does the punishment fit the crime.
Ok but none of what you listed in parentheses is exclusively Western. That's the point here. The issue with believing these are exclusively Western is an implication that Non-Western cultures are inherently inferior. From there it's only a few degrees away from treating anyone not from the West as less than human. “No one has to own values.”
@@mantrajojo4163 Wut?
Just because I own a toy car doesn't mean I am the only person on planet earth to own a toy car.
Just because western culture is built out of 1,2,3 doesn't mean other cultures can't have them. Chinese have law, they have philosophy, they have morality.
One can argue europeans have roman law, greek philosophy and christian morality and chinese don't but it doesn't matter anyway.
Roman law was extremely harsh but so was most every ancient law system.
Japanese are hard working, germans are hard working, being hardworking is a german thing but it isn't exclusively a german thing. Hovewer when you list german stereotypes you include hard work.
Therefore western culture is built on 1,2,3, and these are the western values but they can and are shared with others.
“We don’t want to lose our values, but let’s force others to live with our values…” so western
I mean the west knows best. We have been dominating the world for 500 years. As well as having almost every single nation in the world copy us.
#freedom
@@612osiris okay what’s your point ?
So Terran.
Why not?
I'm inclined to say my favorite eastern value is _concern for the well-being of others,_ something the west seems to have a disturbing shortage of in recent years.
The red scare began with factory workers going on strike because they were literally being worked to death. Contrary to the owner's excuses, cutting their hours in half _increased_ their productivity, because they had more energy, meaning that while they were working they could work faster and smarter, getting more done with less and making fewer mistakes. It turns out people are better at their jobs when they're allowed to exist outside their jobs.
Never heard of China’s 996?
@@Adsper2000 Those are the hours those factory workers were working. The east definitely isn't perfect at concern for the wellbeing of others.
How east is that value? Surely not as far east as east asian collectivism...
Yeah thats why the east is overworked af ?if they would be concerned for the others they wouldnt do it
@@Floppedd those with money and power are abusing people's concern for others' wellbeing to exploit the poor for... really, no meaningful benefit whatsoever, since employees are more productive and therefore business are more profitable when they have lives outside of work, and even if it did increase profits there are diminishing returns on wealth once you're over the threshold of being able to afford food, clothing, housing, transportation, and hygiene. If they didn't have that concern for others, their concern for others couldn't be abused. In the US, corporate culture appeals to personal gain, to the "American dream", the idea of becoming one of those wealthy few who have so much more than they need that gain means nothing to them and yet continuing to increase profits is their only goal. In Asia, the same goal is achieved by telling people that if they don't work themselves to death they're being selfish, not pulling their weight, failing to contribute to society - or at least to their employer's success.
The same awful ends are achieved both by appealing to self-destructive greed and to good intentions. That the good intentions are also exploited doesn't in any way implyv they don't exist. In fact, they have to exist for exploiting them to be effective.
As a Hungarian these “western values” means nothing to me…As we were influenced by both “eastern” and “western” values its hard to say what belongs where.We kind of have our own.
I'd say your values there are pretty similar to the rest of the world
@@iammrbeat maybe we value paprika a bit more than the rest
@@migaloo364 Yes and no.Hungary is in the middle.Our past we used to have our own religion and tradition and it was more “eastern” and we carried that with us along with the “western” and christian values.
@@migaloo364 Eastern Europe is often considered it's own thing from Western Europe. They didn't really take to colonizing like Western Europe did (unless there are some exceptions I don't know about). Southeast Europe in particular was apart of the Ottoman Empire at some point, which was Islam, shaping the region a bit differently from the rest of Europe. The Cold War really caused Eastern Europe to be different from Western Europe because it was under Soviet Rule. Even today Eastern and Western Europe do differ on a few things, like Eastern Europe still isn't big on LGBTQ+ rights like western Europe is.
@@migaloo364 I'll have to look up the port of Tianjin. In terms of colonization nobody here talks about Austria-Hungary.
8:40 isn’t that white man’s burden? Because honestly feels pretty disturbing when people say “Western values are far superior”. Lots of times reminds me of the gross imperialism committed by European countries throughout history to conquer, colonize, and subjugate their fellow human beings in other lands. And then of course what America did during the late 19th century and until this day, especially with its Cold War policy such as the banana wars and containment with regime change.
I do think we shouldn’t use that term anymore as it has a dangerous connotation to it. And it’s kinda disrespectful to people who aren’t “western”
I mean people need to stop this stereotypes. Even east itself dont have one culture
@@Sara-gl2mgcultural groups exist in co existence, but we do have cultural values here in Asia that are quite similar to one another which are rooted in collectivism and conservatism which has existed for years due to having a massive population.
As opposed to the western values of individual freedom as a source of ability. we seek ours through groups such as ethnic ties and familial relations. And you see this trend from Korean to Iranian to indian and to southeast Asian cultures and circles which are rooted in our own philosophy, ethnic groups and religion.
The "values" that are common among many Western nations are, for the large part, shared with many people in other parts of the world. However, for the most part, those values do not seem to be shared by those in power in non-western countries. I'd like to point out the "slippery slope" logical fallacy in the video - "we all know where this leads." I think the biggest issue with "Western Values" is simply that there is no single agreed upon definition which complicates asserting some notion of superiority. Furthermore, terms that many agree would be part of the Western value system - like freedom of speech -- are not universally agreed upon either (Europe does not see hate speech as protected but America does). And, like you pointed out, some term are even contradictory. I think it would be more fair to compare the values of the government of Western and non-Western countries instead of the governed.
You mean that Colonialism didn't sell Western values to its victims?????
@@sentientflower7891 Well colonialism brought brutal autocratic oppression and a lot of those countries are dictatorships now so maybe we did sell something lol
@@miguelpereira9859 We did. But it certainly were not many of the core values we still uphold to his day for example in most of Europe. People often fail to distinguish between what one ( state ) does at home ( home region / continent aso. vs. in some far off place that’s essentially just a tool to further one’s interests.
And also the difference between an esteemed ideal and how one chooses to implement said ideal. Case in point; the freedom of choosing where one wants to live only extends to one’s citizens. This is not a western value but the principle remains. Despite a theoretical truth that’s established everywhere, there are contradicting international arrangements, based on practical concerns.
While the USA doesn't ban hate speech, it still bans copyright infringement, which isn't seen as something against free speech for them. So even the US definition of free speech could be questioned as not perfect.
Suggesting that your values are in some way superior and must be imposed or spread to other people is a slippery slope. The values of a government is temporary, fleeting, and values themselves are not something strictly abided by all the time with no real metric of how much value one shows over the coarse of a public figures career for example. The difference between the USA and China government is Authoritarianism, which is an ideology not a value that Chinese people believe that you must have a singular party or ruler.
Freedom of speech being one sticking point between them is never truly free and there are still limits on it that we perceive as necessary because of the harm it may cause. E.g. hate speech against individuals or groups of people or whistleblowers that highlight unconstitutional practices
Overtime I've moved away from using the term Western values however I think mr. Beat kind of noted something that I agree with and that is these are Enlightenment values. These are values that became prominent during the European Enlightenment. And I think that as they exist around the world today they predominantly do not exclusively extend from Enlightenment philosophy. The problem with using the term Western, is that whether or not these values were from Europe Africa Asia South America Etc is totally incidental and not an essential part of these values they are irrelevant. These values are simply in line with The Human Condition so we should expect to see versions of these values pop up from time to time in different parts of the world.
As a member of the military, I've traveled to Russia, Greece, Japan, and the Middle East; I can honestly say that I think that "Western Values" doesn't actually exist and it's only used as a way to describe that a person or type of people are better somehow than others. Seeing how most people in those countries I've mentioned above live their lives, it's really not that different from the United States, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Australia, and/or England.
Thank you Mr. Beat for a great video and another wonderful use of history and knowledge.
Oh really, when was last time people had died for leaving religion in sweden
@@subhuman3408 What the hell are you talking about?
@@nicksoapdish157 There is value of "death to apostasy" in many muslim countries. İs it better than western value.
@@subhuman3408 If you travel all over the world, every country has rules and laws that other people who are not from that country don't agree with. That has nothing to do with Northern, Eastern, Western, and/or Southern "values". Every country I've been to has laws and rules I don't agree with. Unfortunately I can't tell countries how to run their nations; it's simple common sense.
@@nicksoapdish157 Just read your original comment, you will understand the contradiction
As a Latin American I'd say "Western" is much more annoying than many terms Americans think might be offensive.
I thought it was supposed to mean greco-roman culture like the video explains but it's often used to exclude Greece, Italy, Spain or LatAm.
It seems a man from Reykjavík is and especially *looks* more Western then a man from Athens.
At least when used by English people it almost always seems to be a euphemism for "People like us. Normal. Standard. White"
Agreed, particularly funny considering some people claim greco-roman heritage while excluding modern Greeks lol
America is a country. I’m American and I don’t find “western” annoying or offensive. It seems that you jealous of and America obsessed Latinos do though.
Some asian values or eastern values I see growing up are "Harmony", "Respect", "Patience", "Empathy", "Compassion", "Order", "Structure". Also I think there's linguistic barriers in analyzing values. Even though we may seemingly share the same concept of "democracy" or "capitalism". But if you really dig deep into how 民主 (democracy in Chinese), 自由 (freedom in Chinese), 市场 (market in Chinese), constructed in different social and linguistic manners, their origin and developmental phases/processes are still different from western countries and there are enormous nuances. I don't really think western values that seemingly not limited to deriving/existing/perpetuating only in the west but also in the east are exactly the same considering all the nuances.
Empathy and compassion as eastern values?? The east has the most human rights violations and oppressive governments in the whole world. The East has the most rigorous/strict discipline cultures around. Respect, patience, structure etc are things you’ll find in African cultures aswell, they value ethnic and family structure and respect their elders and people in authority, talking back is a taboo. Those values aren’t just found in the East.
@@sweetlemonade6925 you're right
@@sweetlemonade6925 The communist idea come from europe, so most the true eastern values are not being in force
China's values have been replaced by CCP values. Their language was even updated with words like "love" having their meaning slightly changed to fit the communist narrative.
中庸
I think the reason we call these values "western values" is that there is not other word for them collectively and that theses values are protected by law in western contries, but theses values are shared by different people all around the world and not all people in western society share them.
Good point
These values are shared throughout the world, precisely because of Western colonialism and the impression the West left on the entire globe, which Mr Beat conveniently ignores in this extremely oversimplified and very biased video
Better to call it liberal modern values
My favorite definition of the West comes from Senator McCain at the Munich Security Conference:
From the ashes of the most awful calamity [WWII] was born what we call „the West“.
A new and different and better kind of world order. One not based on blood and soil nationalism or spheres of influence or conquest of the weak by the strong but rather on universal values, rule of law, open commerce and respect for the national sovereignty and independence.
Indeed the entire idea of the West is that it’s open to any person or any nation that honors and upholds these values.
wow
Fascinating!
by that definition most western countries are not actually so
Long live Senator McCain's legacy
@@christianweibrecht6555 The question is not if they are so but do they aspire to be so.
As an American of (white) New Zealand parents (ie, a 'Western' country in the global South), my favorite 'Southern' value is environmentalism. Capitalism has done a lot to increase the wealth of many people in the world, but history has shown that it's come at the cost of devastating the environment, which is something that non-Western cultures have long recognized.
Nonsense. "Environmentalism" is a purely western invention, it is something non-western culture never recognised. They never had economic growth to recognise it in the first place.
There is nothing in the private ownership of the means of production that requires destroying the environment, though.
@@justinnamuco9096 It doesn't have to be an essential requirement, to be an outcome.
@@justinnamuco9096 You cannot "destroy" the environment. It will exist for a billion years yet. All that happens is we may exhaust some easy to get minerals or oil.
I guess you think in the bronze age, they "destroyed" the environment when they mined bronze. Nonsense.
It is a requirement of production (specifically manufacturing) to use the earth's bounty (resources), whether privately owned or public.
Without it you'd have no "things", no phone, no car, no infrastrucure, no 21st century society.
You’re Canadian. You live in Canada. You’re confusing the two countries.
My favorite northwestern value- loving nature
My favorite southern value- sweet tea with lemon
My favorite western value- the beach boys
and yes, I value you too Mr Beat
William, this was an awesome comment.
My favourite north-western value is sockeye salmon.
First, my condolences on the loss of your cat.
Secondly, define your definitions. For instance, Maslow (as I understand it) said all people need security/safety. I have never met a person who said they want to feel unsafe. They might like the thrill of danger like extreme sports or something but no one that I have met wants to live in a state of not knowing if their physical needs will be met or if they will be beaten or killed at any given moment. HOWEVER, how that safety is achieved is different from person to person and from group (culture) to group (culture). When I lived in Portland, OR in the 1990s, I held low level jobs and as such ran across a lot of people who, like myself, did not value the benefits of mid to higher level positions enough to pursue them (still don't, but anyway). Many of these people were squatters. They lived in abandoned houses. Their "families" were whoever was their at that moment. They were very nomadic. Most of the ones I met were brilliant philosophers, mathematicians and artists. However, they defined safety differently than the sedentary culture that surrounded them. Freedom was paramount. Being tied to a place or job was unsafe because it would limit their freedom. The very things that the sedentary culture saw as signs of freedom, "owning" (paying a mortgage on) your own home so you are free from the threat of homelessness (not really, but it's easier to believe you are), "owning your own vehicle" so you can go where ever you want, (except you can't because you need a steady job to pay for the car and it's maintenance) were seen as threats and limitations to the squatters. The dominant culture strove to gentrify neighborhoods in order to help these "poor" (in the sense of being pathetic) people who knew no other life than living on the streets without seeking to understand that it IS possible for a directly opposite value system to be just as valid.
I agree that declaring some a value to be "western" or "eastern" can cause opposition. However, it is equally dangerous to say "Well, we all agree that we want freedom therefore 'deep down' we all want the same thing." I have seen this lead to people who define the terms commonly used in these lists of values one way forcing, compelling, or coercing those who use a completely different definition to live according to their values. Thus the "Deep down all humans have the same values" has the same "We must 'help' these poor confused people who think that what they hold as important matters understand that what we hold as important is really what matters" effect as saying "We must spread Western values". The only difference is the "X culture's values" recognizes that there are people who value different ways of living than "X culture" while the "All humans value the same things" denies the humanity of anyone who does not value the things on that list as they are defined by the speaker.
A culture that values conformity will say that they value freedom of expression because conformity is necessary to create a safe environment for that expression. A culture that values "family" and defines it as those you are legally related to will look completely different than a culture that values "family" and defines it as those you happen to find yourself among who respect what you have to contribute to the community, etc., etc. Maslow was probably right. (I have heard arguments against his order but none that said there is no hierarchy of needs). However, we must not take that commonality to mean that the things/principles each group values as a way to meet those needs will be the same.
(Yes, there was drug use among the squatters but anyone who thinks it doesn't happen among sedentary cultures is fooling themselves and the means of measuring which groups it is more prevalent in are usually skewed in favor of the culture of those doing the research.)
I believe we definitely should phase out the phrase Western values in this context because all it does is try to justify at best mere smugness and at worst xenophobia
Well put!
Xenophobia is opposed to western values.
As someone who grew up in Mediterranean Europe and living almost literally my whole adult life in East Asia, let me tell you... We human beings aren't really all that different as it might seem on the surface. As for the values, we've been influencing each other intercontinentally for as long as the dawn of civilisations. So yes, please, stop using "western" this and "western" that, AT LEAST within academical contexts and situations, because it's too vague of an expression, thus meaning nothing. Leave that kind of speech for casual colloquialisms.
Greetings from Finland! This is the best video from you that I have seen. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! And your country is awesome.
スオミだ！！！
One value we have in the UK is getting a greasy kebab made with mystery meat on a Saturday night while drunk.
Now THAT'S a value we can all agree on.
😂😂😂
Indeed, same tradition in the Netherlands.
That avengers "shoarma" scene was so recognisable, for a saturday night.
The "west" also holds on to some values that I wouldn't describe as positive but those are conveniently left out of the whole western values paradigm. Materialism is a pretty bad value to hold in my opinion but it's extremely common in "western" society.
As someone not from the West materialism/hedonism IS usually what we mean when we refer to Western values.
@@MarkAntony-l7s you’re not wrong. As I see it, America is the whore of Babylon.
I believe some values today _are_ exclusively Western. Governments that will consistently uphold the civil liberties of its residents and will go against the majority to protect its minorities from discrimination are always culturally western.
I'm Indonesian. Indonesia is supposed to have a secular government, yet recently our legislature passed a law that bans sex outside of marriage to protect Islamic values, and thus imposing their values on a sizable minority who aren't even part of their religion and on moderate Muslims who wanted no such law. Hell, a lot of Muslims (mostly from the middle class and secular intellectuals) are also against the law.
The legislature also passed a law that makes it illegal to insult government institutions and its officials, while conveniently leaving out what "insult" actually means. It's deliberately written ambiguously to make it easier to punish critics if the government wanted to.
We also have law that makes it illegal to blaspheme. It's technically written to protect all recognized religions, but somehow people are only punished if they blaspheme Islam, particularly if they're a religious minority. We have Imams that have openly called for the removal or forcible conversions of Christians, Hindus, and indigenous animists yet nothing has ever happened to those people.
Sh-t like these will never fly in the west. Hell, y'all in America couldn't even put a Bible quote for a public school motto in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming without someone making a fuss about it.
Thanks for posting Patrick. I visited Sumatra years ago.
You Indonesians are so ignorant of the world. And this comment proves it. Go kiss Putin’s pen1s or something.
7:53 He was explaining that all four of the elements have been achieved only in Western Civilisations, not that none of them have been individually achieved by others. All 4 in unison is uniquely Western
Non of the 4, except maybe the universal human rights, were developed in "The West'. Scientific method was developed by an Arab mathematician Ibn al-Haytham. Religious tolerance existed even in the Mongol empire. It was rather the norm everywhere except in Europe. Slavery was abolished 100s of years before any Western country abolished it. As usual these chauvinists' claims are all Eurocentric pseudohistory.
@@ilovecoffee7623 while yes things develop from everywhere there are things unique to the West mostly because of Catholicism, Protestanism and more broadly European culture (or at least a collection of them) so while Western Values do exist they aren't really isolated as Christianity, Algebra and many more things come from Eastern cultures as Culture and science aren't confined to one place nor even culture.
Courtly love even came from Islam, while scientific books that both the Church and Islam (Abrahamic Religions) preserved came from the Greeks and Romans (Pagans), Islam even developed Algebra based on the Greeks.
@@ilovecoffee7623 let us start witht he claim, the full scientific method was only there with Francis Bacon, but Ibn Al Haytham certainly made progress, the mongol empire is particuarly uniquely tolerant, but we consider it a western value because again it has been best achieved in the west. and before someone claims the persia human rights thing wikipedia has this to say on the Cyrus Cylinder "The interpretation of the Cylinder as a "charter of human rights" has been described by various historians as "rather anachronistic" and tendentious.[11][111][112][113][14] It has been dismissed as a "misunderstanding"[12] and characterized as political propaganda devised by the Pahlavi regime.[99] The German historian Josef Wiesehöfer comments that the portrayal of Cyrus as a champion of human rights is as illusory as the image of the "humane and enlightened Shah of Persia".[106] D. Fairchild Ruggles and Helaine Silverman describe the Shah's aim as being to legitimise the Iranian nation and his own regime, and to counter the growing influence of Islamic fundamentalism by creating an alternative narrative rooted in the ancient Persian past."
@@Cecilia-ky3uw teamwork makes the dreamwork basically
@@ilovecoffee7623 Rest of the world abolished slavery 100 years before Europe did? Where? India still had slaves, Arabs and Ottomans were trading with them before Europe came, and after Europe abolished slavery, and the Indonesian archipelago had a lot of slavery too. Don’t be fooled, there are more slaves now, than there were at any point in human history, and almost none of them are in western countries.
Ah, like so many debates now this centers on semantics. “Western values” has been an easy albeit admittedly imperfect shorthand. How about “enlightenment values” as a substitute? It is more descriptive than “values”, acknowledges the origin of the collection of said values as popularly spread in recent centuries, and sheds the difficulties surrounding the labeling of region.
Personally I'd say that the whole East-West dichotomy is much older and has it's origins in the Persian Wars, when the Greek city-states (polis) united to fight the Persian Empire under Darius and Xerxes. Other than that this was a very great and informative video Mr. Beat. Keep up the good work. 👍😉
Very good point
Crash Course did a great video on this topic. I'll link it here:
ruclips.net/video/Q-mkVSasZIM/видео.html&feature=share
That is what I think
Ironically, Persia was the very first "superpower" in world history, and thus the model for all the powerful, cosmopolitan nation-states that followed it. We wouldn't have such "modern" concepts as multiculturalism and religious tolerance if it had not been for Darius and Xerxes. In a way, the Greeks and other subsequent imperialists carried on the Persian legacy more than they replaced it.
I would be careful with equating every west-east divide in history with this contrast: Since most of these values are so universal and spread all across the globe, a lot of the discourse today has its roots more in colonialism, the cold war and the war on terror. Personally, i think western values are a non-helpful social construct, and are more used as the ideology behind these conflicts. (Excuse my english- not my first language)
Stumbled across my new favorite channel! Mahalo for all your hard and delightful work!
Western values are such broad and nebulous terms that it can mean anything the orator wants it to mean and I think we all understand different countries have similar yet subtly different value system based on their culture that is informed by their consumption of media, religion, etc. Western values as it stands is mostly used as a dogwhistle for "back in my days" to champion regressive ideals and oppose social progress.
Edit: I don't think democracy, liberty and justice are specific to just "the West". I'm sure most of the world looks up to those ideas. The West is also not a monolith.
Come to think of it, many terms and phrases are also problematic due to being too broad and nebulous!
modern democracy and liberalism (also comunism!) is literally a western invention
The rest of the world does not look up to those values otherwise they would probably have them. The middle east generally has no interest in what the “west” is like.
@@islas357 false, plenty of western movements and ideologies in the middle east, of course it is one of the places where more resistance is given to western values, but you even have countries like lebanon or israel that are basically western
@@islas357 and dont forget how turkey literally westernized itself a century ago (there are current efforts to undo this process)
Honestly, I haven't really heard this term much, and I am over 40, and I am actually interested in such things. Judeo-Christian ethics is what I usually heard mentioned. Sadly, the people who use this term often don't deeply know what those are either. I have a good idea what those are, or at least the Christian ones. Also interesting is that they added to what was said in the scriptures. You can see this with Chivalry or the values that were attempted to instill into knights (often they did not really achieve this though...still these were the goals in addition to the usual Christian values).
According to the Song of Roland:
1. To fear God and maintain His Church
2. To serve the liege lord in valor and faith
3. To protect the weak and defenseless
4. To give succor to widows and orphans
5. To refrain from the wanton giving of offense
6. To live by honor and for glory
7. To despise pecuniary reward
8. To fight for the welfare of all
9. To obey those placed in authority
10. To guard the honor of fellow knights
11. To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
12. To keep faith
13. At all times to speak the truth
14. To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
15. To respect the honor of women
16. Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
17. Never to turn the back upon a foe
Another version:
1. Faith
2. Charity (giving to those in need, out of love for humanity)
3. Justice
4. Sagacity (wisdom, insight, perceptiveness)
5. Prudence (a. the ability to govern and discipline oneself by the use of reason, b.sagacity or shrewdness in the management of affairs, c. skill and good judgment in the use of resources, d. caution or circumspection as to danger or risk)
6. Temperance (habitual moderation in the indulgence of the appetites or passions)
7. Resolution
8. Truth
9. Liberality (the quality of being open to new ideas and free from prejudice)
10. Diligence
10. Hope
11. Valor
And I have seen other lists too. There is also the Tree of Virtues, where 57 virtues are presented.
And, those values got tweaked again with Humanism during the Renaissance, in which Christianity was put on the back burner, and Roman values were elevated...mostly because being wealthy and a jerk was not congruent with Christianity...and rich jerks wanted to be able to be conceited without the guilt. Roman values gave them this freedom. If you want to learn about Roman values, reading Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is an excellent introduction. It is very interesting, and there is some good stuff, like responsibility to community, but there are definite shortcomings in Roman values. For example, Charity is not something they would ever consider. A Roman only gave if they were going to get something of similar value back...other than an inheritance given to a child, or other relative. People were just allowed to suffer, and die, without anyone giving a care. They basically believed that the Gods controlled who was suffering, so who are we to interfere? There is even some risk that you will incur the same wrath. The best you can do is be sure to fulfill all your obligations to your god or gods, so that crap does not happen to you or your children.
Things of course moved on. The shedding of class to varying degrees, the disintegration of monarchies, and the embrace of either meritocracy or populism created and continues division. Various combinations of the glorification of mythology, the embrace of Social Darwinism, the embrace of "Enlightened Self Interest", the embrace of "class warfare", and these previous Roman values, including the elevation of the individual, alone or in combination, are constantly molded into new angles for personal pride and assertion of power over, and justification of cruelty to others. And thrown into all this, the massive technological and industrial advantages of some nations guaranteed some invention of justification for conquest of the rest of the World rather than simply elements of their own societies.
And apart from these things, there are the new values present and being discovered in good engineering, good science, educational excellence, excellence in competition (athletics, games), art, music, and story telling...and sadly manipulation (advertising, propaganda, lawyer skills, & salesman).
And there are some odds and ins. Escapism into drugs, humaneness toward animals, age limits on things that can potentially dramatically damage one's life, informed consent as sufficient protection of the public (childhood, as we know it, is actually a recent invention), valuing nature and ecosystems, adrenaline junkyism, NIMBYism (idea that you should have a say in things you don't own...things others want to do with their property).
This sounds really interesting and i'd like to dive deeper into this. Currently reading Marcus Aurelius' meditations aswell, and I can definitely see what you mean. I'd love to read more about the Song of Roland and medieval virtues aswell, are there any books you recommend for that?
This comment was a lot more insightful than the video. I'm interested in the nuance. Granted, there are grifters speaking code to get power. But I don't think Mr. Beat is accomplishing anything by reducing the discussion to that impulse alone. There is a recognizable bias in what he's saying which he isn't admitting to. I'd much rather see a lively discussion of the history of the contradictions and a way to move forward in the reality of the world we live than just one more self satisfied sophomoric deconstruction that's dumbed down for the kids.
Meditations 1:17
'To the gods Im indebted for...whenever I wished to help any man in his need, or on any other occasion, I was never told that I had not the means of doing it; and that to myself the same necessity never happened, to receive anything from another'
THE EIGHTH BOOK OF THE DIALOGUES of Seneca, book 3
'The duty of a man is to be useful to his fellow-men; if possible, to be useful to many of them; failing this, to be useful to a few; failing this, to be useful to his neighbours, and, failing them, to himself: for when he helps others, he advances the general interests of mankind'
I never read it so you might be able to point me toward it. Is this not the generic stance toward giving to others in need in stoicism?
@@nemdenemam9753 I've read Meditations several times over and, yes, this is the general sentiment about such topics. However, a big confounding factor I noticed in my analysis: Marcus Araleus strikes me as a classic roman in his sense of quazi-collectivism. In my mind, he has an almost nationalistic nature, a sense that Roman society is supreme in part due to the harmonious and mutually beneficial interactions within their society. Naturally, such attitudes of charity and fraternity do not seem to extend to ALL people as a matter of "ethics", but just the ones within one's own "societal machine", such that "this" machine may outcompete "that" one, as a matter of stoic pragmatism. (i.e. the Roman machine vs. various barbarian machines, for example.).
@@CagetheOnion so is this a correct summary of your answer: 'Marcus Aurelies would considered charity good as long as it's between romans'?
What would you say to Seneca saying 'for when he helps others, he advances the general interests of mankind'? Where does this specificity toward romans come up? Can you please provide me chapters which show that stoics were against charity toward non romans? Or in case I misunderstood you, can you give me chapters which shows they were against charity in principle?
Also are you in disagreement with the original commenter? Who says that any kind of charity goes against their philosophy.
'Roman values were elevated...mostly because being wealthy and a jerk was not congruent with Christianity...and rich jerks wanted to be able to be conceited without the guilt....Charity is not something they would ever consider. ... People were just allowed to suffer, and die, without anyone giving a care.'
As a person who's living in Eastern Europe, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. We are technically "west" but not really.
Don't worry. Unless you're still living in Eastern Europe, you are still had a Western Values. In fact, Russia has already adopts Western Values since Peter the Great(or Pyotr I Romanov). And yes. 1682 marks the beginning of the Westernisation of Russia.
@@AetherTheGenshin what about now? Hehe.
@@AetherTheGenshin so is Turkey western too? Let's go even farther, did Deng Xiaoping made China a western country?
Nomadic of East European formed Asian countries, many of are looking like Mix East European
Honestly, a more accurate phrase would literally be "liberal" values. Freedom of speech, free markets, human rights and fairness and equality, has existed all throughout human history, and was never at all exclusive to Europe.
Mr. Beat, sir, this is the most thought provoking video I've seen from you yet. I often spout off to my family (they can't escape) about Western Values and American Values. As you rightfully point out, many people in the public eye who carry on most about Western Values are in fact undermining many of those good "values." Based on this look in the mirror you've provided, I'm going to be a lot more carefully about casually using this term without at least putting context around it in the future. Some of those videos you showed were boorish to the point of being cringe-worthy. Good going Mr. Beat!!
Thanks Scott. We have these values, and they shouldn't be exclusionary. They are human values and should be promoted that way.
@@iammrbeat I suggest that "human" or "humane" values become the term of art.
American values are western values. Get your facts right.
Human rights being labeled as "Western Values" entirely ignores the "first declaration of human rights" from Cyrus the Great, famously not from the west.
wikipedia has this to say "The interpretation of the Cylinder as a "charter of human rights" has been described by various historians as "rather anachronistic" and tendentious.[11][111][112][113][14] It has been dismissed as a "misunderstanding"[12] and characterized as political propaganda devised by the Pahlavi regime.[99] The German historian Josef Wiesehöfer comments that the portrayal of Cyrus as a champion of human rights is as illusory as the image of the "humane and enlightened Shah of Persia".[106] D. Fairchild Ruggles and Helaine Silverman describe the Shah's aim as being to legitimise the Iranian nation and his own regime, and to counter the growing influence of Islamic fundamentalism by creating an alternative narrative rooted in the ancient Persian past."
Of course I value you. History is my second or third hobby and you have taught me a lot. I have always valued teachers, professes and educators. When I used to manage apartments I always gave them discounts. I’ve voted to increase my own taxes to pay them more. When I was a child in elementary school the Vietnam War was on television on the news. I absolutely hated it. So since about second grade I realized our country was spending too much money on war and not enough on education. Things have not improved. My grandfather was a judge and was on the cover of their little local newspaper because he overturned a tax law that would help schools. I was so disappointed in him for that. But he put together and oil well trust for my mother and I only. My mom has Alzheimer’s. As I’m taking over I found out her brother in law sold most of the parcels of land with mineral rights. That happened in Oklahoma even though we both live in Florida. That trust was none of his business, he never even met my grandfather. I don’t know what to do. Lawyers want money. And if a judge rules he has to pay me, he could just say he doesn’t have it anymore and file bankruptcy. That was my grandfather’s legacy and my only hope of ever retiring. I’m 57. It’s hard to save when you’re alone and in a housing crisis.
I agree with most of what you say but 2 bones to pick. One is it's a little off I think to consider Islamic nations promoting Sharia law to be a small group of extremists. Not every Muslim majority nation but most seem to be run by these Sharia law values. Don't get me wrong clearly not every Muslim wants to live like this as can be seen by the protests and the number of Muslims who want to leave those countries for Europe or North America. But enough like those values in order them to control several nations. Secondly I don't think individualism is a non controversial value, I find it extremely controversial. In my view individualism is a value that causes most of us to do the bare minimum for our neighbors and our community. Don't get me wrong I believe in individual liberty, but individualism is a problem. To me the combination of individual liberty with a collective culture like what you can see in Japan or South Korea is far more ideal. Compare the fits that were thrown here about mask mandates while in Japan and South Korea masking up when they were sick was a part of the culture anyways and there was little backlash.
Had really never even thought much about this verbiage, but I have heard it all the time my whole life. It's sort of a sneaky 'otherizer' we all accept. Thanks for the vid!
You put it well, Forrest. I hadn't thought of it until a couple years back
Thats in the direction of some real enlightenment.
And obviously ‘race’ on the level of a concept is racist, a basis for division. If one were to say ‘the west is the best’ it would better be said tongue in cheek with a wink and a smile.
I value you Mr. Beat! Thank you from an elementary school teacher in Washington state. I’m always brushing up on my US history with your videos for teaching my 5th graders. I like the value of respecting the diverse cultures of the world!
Excelent video! It sheds light on a topic that had been making noise for me. It is incredible the way the media have to make up racism and xenophobia with beautiful words.
I totally agree "western values" is a very outdated term. Also, countries are different, values will be weighted differently depending on circumstances. There is also the whole "why does (for example Nigeria) not just do as or become more as (for example Denmark) to fix their problem" argument which is extremely thin and simple argument to, for the most part, very complex problem/situation.
How is it outdated? People still believe in these ideas. I find the phrase extremely useful.
Well put
@@sagebias2251 In short by placing the word Western and all of the connotations that has with it in front of the word Values (as in fundamental ones that all Humans beings everywhere can and do share) has perverted the meaning of both what the West is and what Values are.
They're not lines on a map, they're not the color of skin, they're not the belief in this or that god...They're Human Values we've learned to accept, embrace, love because people across the world stood up and fought and died for us to learn as important and needed for an ethical functional equal world to be made. People from any form of Non-West idea you can imagine included in those sacrifices for Humanity's advancement.
It is also clear how corruption and perversion of some has caused this terminology to clearly be inherently well racist or supremacist. Which is a clear violation of the logic behind these Values...So even internally without outside criticism there's a problem that must be addressed.
Simple solution...Just accept reality and ignore propaganda. Call them Values or Humanitarian Values instead of Western Values.
It’s not outdated at all. I think it’s a very important term.
@@flamesofchaos13 I think it’s important they are called western values because of the importance behind it. I hate how nowadays people try to find everything offensive and change the meaning of every word or phrase. They are western values. They are also human values, but they became popularized through the western world, and that is extremely important. Especially since there are still many places in the world that are very brutal and dictatorial. Human values is too vague and can be used by anybody to mean whatever they want. Western values is used to describe a specific branch of human values that is the most effective.
Congratulations on reaching 450,000 subscribers, Mr. Beat!
Hi Abraham Lincoln ❤️
Thanks Abe!
@@iammrbeat Hopefully you reach 500,000 subscribers by March 2022!
@@jessicacat4418 Hello!
@@abrahamlincoln937 how are you doing today bestie💖
The animation, and editing in general, within this video is fantastic! Keep up the great work!
1. I always get annoyed when people say "race has no genetic basis." This statement can lead people to believe that there are no geographically concentrated genetic traits within humanity, which is simply false. Chinese people are on average genetically different from Africans, who are on average genetically different from Europeans. We use the term "race" to refer to broad categories of easily discernable genetic differences. For example, the genetic difference between Europeans and Africans which causes the former to have pale skin and the latter to have dark skin are easily discernable to the eye and usually (but not always) are a clear indicator of where a person or their ancestors came from. While I don't disagree that our notion of race is over simplified and arbitrary and has been used in the past by Europeans and non-Europeans alike to justify horrifying treatment of different ethnicities, the statement that "race has no genetic basis" is objectively false.
2. I think more of the supposedly "western values" are unique to the West, or more precisely uncommon outside the West, than you give them credit for. Some of them really are universal human behavioral traits, like just being good people, not stealing, taking care of one another, etc, but some of them, particularly the political and economic values are pretty unique to the West (and places the West has influenced). As you rightfully pointed out, most of them can be more precisely defined as "enlightenment" values (although many have roots in pre-enlightenment European or near-Eastern culture). The fact is that certain things like democracy, capitalism, political equality, secularism, and freedom of expression are pretty uncommon outside the West. They *have* existed in some other cultures, but looking at all cultures across all of history these things *tend* to be the exception rather than the norm. No value is unique to just one culture, however I think it is the unique combination of odd and uncommon values which gives the "West" its definitive character. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single civilization in all of history that has strongly valued all of these things I just mentioned, and implemented them to the degree that the West has. Medieval Islamic society may have had very advanced science but it certainly was not secular or democratic. Ancient and medieval China may have been capitalist but it certainly wasn't secular either, and definitely didn't have freedom of expression or democracy. To be fair, not even all "Western" countries exhibit all of these characteristics.
To summarize, none of these values are 100% unique to the West and I think it's a lazy oversimplification to just label all of them as "Western" values, but the West as a whole does have a pretty unique combination of various unusual and uncommon values which has given it a unique character throughout history.
I would call it "contemporary values"
because some of things like equality between citizens, political involvement, and freedom of enterprise are things that we only agreed were valuable on a global scale pretty recently, and don't really follow any geographic trend.
Every time I think about it, I value the fact that I'm born west of Systerbäck (fi: Siestarjoki, ru: Sestroretsk), which means I've grown up in a country free of feudal and Communist oppression, and its aftermath, which means I've grown up in a country where individualism has been allowed to exist in spite of often being governed by Socialist parties, which means we can discuss a future membership in NATO. Anyone from Sweden or Finland should know what I'm talking about, for the rest of you it's hard to explain by using simple, restrictive, limiting, human words.
I think we can soundly argue for the existence of "Western Values" without needing to discover the perfect list that composes them. The term is socially constructed and the interpretation is always up to debate. However, the term itself is meaningful to many people, so it is worth investigating justification for the term.
First, it is reasonable to be skeptical of any claim that calls itself a "Western Value". This skepticism, however, cannot deny the historical development of Europe's intellectual cultural development. By Europe, I really mean the peoples around the Mediterranean, as the Islamic tradition counts as an important contributor to Western thought, regardless of the belief of racists. In this sense, we can view the concept of "Western Values" as a set of norms and beliefs that answered the particular needs of these peoples throughout time.
Another important reason to keep the term is that it is a contradistinction against other values, such as those of the original peoples of the Americas, even if it leads to an ironic interpretation of the term. By referring to "Western Values" in a cosmopolitan fashion as just "Values" we assume that these are values that everyone can share, which may not be true. Everyone on a survey may say they believe in Equality, but everyone has an interpretation of that term that is greatly influenced by their society. So much so, that it may not even be recognized as the same concept by the differing perspectives. We can see this in European notions of Equality that differ from Indigenous American notions of Equality, especially in the interpretations within their respective legal systems. The same can be said for China, India, and every other influential culture in the world.
So to summarize, we can keep using the term, so long as we recognize the historical perspective these ideas originate from and refrain from universalizing these normative assumptions.
the islamic tradition is literally muslims preserving Greek and Roman culture and literature which was reintroduced into Europe so yeah Islam influenced Europe in Nothing except preserving what the Byzantines already knew. they invented nothing but Islamic terror and Hijabs. you can give them Algebra and Alchemy but thats about it.
@@covfefe1787 Muslims did invent the scientific method, therefore science is a Muslim invention. There’s also astronomy, chemistry, medicine, surgery, math, optics. The list goes on and on and on. Europe would still be in the dark ages if it weren’t for Europeans studying in Muslim countries. Learn your history before you comment on something you have little knowledge of.
Western values are also the ones no one talks about which were the reason for colonization around the world, endless wars up to the present, and a couple world wars. Can’t have the good without the bad. 🤣
@@Wakamolewonder they didn’t it’s all from Greek text the Islamic scripture prevents Muslims from using technology past the time of Mohammed it would be very unislamic Saudi’s just last year opened movie theaters in the country. Give me sources because every Islamic advancement was literally based on Greek texts which they preserved. Later they came back to Europe during the Renaissance and it still would have happened anyway the dark ages ended in the 13th century and revival began by the new Holy Roman Empire.
@@Wakamolewonder those aren’t western values anymore. Plus European colonization have more benefits to other people than drawbacks. the world would be chaotic without European imperialism if not Europe someone else would do it. Don’t hate the player hate the game not my problem we were granted a geographical headstart compared to other cultures.
Mr. Beats, I'm going to use the term "Human Values" from now on in class. This will be a change after 42 years of teaching in Kansas.
ironically calling human rights "western" has caused many nationalists to become against human rights across the world
I'm part of the National Socialist American workers party. You got a problem?
Even though I agree with the argument of the video. It's important to point out that exists non western value, that are kinda exclusive to certain regions, such as those influenced by Dharma and the teaching of Confucius
How are those values different?
It just means certain religions and philosophies are connected to certain regions of the world.
@@iammrbeat First of all. I'm so happy to "talk" to you. I'm a big fan.
I'm referring examples like in parts India where vegetarians are a majority, they treat animals in a different way, at least cows. Or the non-rebellious attitude towards institutions/rulers of Confucius ideas. Also can be noted that this societies are less individualistic than the "west". This are some examples that came into my mind right now.
Of course I'm not saying that this are exclusively non-western but in this gradient of values that this our world these stand out in some areas.
@@JLZcoche Yes I am Indian and partially agree but just wanted to point out only 30% people are vegetarian and other 70% are non veg but most of them dont consume pork and beef. Also India is the least vaccine hesitant nation which can be because of collective nature. India is a democracy and has rights for individual but people think what to do in collective way but as time is moving India is becoming individualist like west. I think its not more abut values but change in thinking and beliefs which happened way before in west but is happening now in other places.
@@iammrbeat bro log off
11:05 When people talk about the Islamic world as opposed to the West, I think most people are specifically talking about Islamic fundamentalists who have completely and explicitly rejected the West, not majority-Muslim places with secular governments like Turkey and Indonesia. Nobody says "Don't go to Indonesia, am I right? All those suicide bombers over there."
Meh, Indonesia is far from some of those "western values" characteristics that mr. beat was pointing out. I'd be surprised (and glad) if i found out I'm not the only one who supports lgbtq+ right in my small town in Indonesia.
They are generally referring to how people in these cultures have different values. You can measure these differences in belief empirically and compare them. For instance, Sharia law is antithetical to the separation of church and state.
Again, what do you mean by "The West?"
@@iammrbeat I hate to be so esoteric, but are you familiar with Wittgenstein’s theory of family resemblance?
my favorite western values: hypocrisy, sugercoating evil things
I only miss high school for one reason… having you as a teacher
That's really kind of you to say. You were an awesome student. The thing I miss the most about teaching in the classroom is students like you.
I value you on a George Washington level!
Yes you do and I value YOU 🙂
@@iammrbeat hi Matt
@@HistoricallyProven Hi Dude!
@@iammrbeat I wish you were my history teacher. The one we have just gives us assignments and expects us to know everything from a book. :(
I went to West Jr High school in LFK... we thought our selves superior to South and Central Jr High schools :). That said, thank you for this video. I spent much of my adult life in the Army, deployed to various places around the world. I was always surprised at how there are more commonalities with other cultures than differences... and that the differences are maligned and amplified by those seeking gain or keep power.
Wat does lfk stand for
@@khalidqawdhan3265 Lawrence f’ing Kansas, I presume.
Universal human rights is the best term in my opinion, it doesn't matter where good ideas originate or are being followed. It matters if they are good ideas.
"human values" would be the most accurate term. Healthcare, protection and economy are probably the big 3.
Sometimes when I hear people from the far right or televangelists talk about Western values I start to wonder what our Swedish values are, or for that matter Scandinavian or even European values. But most of the values on “your list” are also our values, but how to interpret them and adopt them is maybe very much different in different parts of our world.
But VALUES, is OK for me.
You deliver excellent content to your audience. It's very interesting material. All of your effort put into creating this video is much appreciated. I'm truly grateful for your help!
Why do some people have to call them "western values"? Do they think that people not living in the west are not allowed to value the same thing? How arrogant are they? You yourself are not one of those enlightment thinkers. You're just an ordinary guy like everyone else on earth. You don't get to take the honor of something which you have nothing to do with! The heritage of those enlightment thinkers are treasures for all human beings not just westerners. You value things doesn't mean that you own those things, capisce?
I have been thinking about this video and while it is very good, I would argue that "Western culture" became more defined within individuals (not governments) after the conflicts of the 20th century-particularly WW2. Being "Western" in Germany is very different from being "Western" in the United States which unlike Germany, was born in diversity so the enlightenment values that served as the context for the Revolution connect people to the idea of a "western nation" to establish a shared value system.
Many indivuduals draw on history to frame their understandings of present day events and processes. "The West" in people's minds today has been redefined because of WW2. Those that identify with freedom, liberty, choice, transparency and limited government "think" those are "Western ideas" whereas the ideologies that shape Communism, Facism, and/or any heavy hand of government is thought of a return to the past or pre-revolutionary era- where governments had all the power and thus are NOT "western". In sum, "The West" is not a place or a nation or an empire, but a confluence of ideas that shaped beliefs/ideologies (more of a cultural identifier )and anyone who adopts the basic principles that resulted from Age of Enlightenment and resulting Revolutions, as well as the application of that thought to explain the outcomes of WW2, is considered "Western" today.
That's liberalism
I don’t think it’s a problem to use the term western values on its own it’s just the people who do usually use it tend to have more problematic views and use “western values” as a scapegoat
I agree!
Although it’s not really measurable, I never really felt like here in America, my culture as a Mexican or much of any Latin America would be considered “western.”
A big chunk of western America used to be Mexico (like where I am in CA), and yet its as if it’s a surprise to see so many Latino people for some.
You’re in Canada. Not America. You’re confusing the two countries.
Since we have discovered that you’re in Canada, edit your comment to say “Canada” NOT “America” and “BC” NOT “CA” and replace “western America” with “western Canada”.
You can’t be in America because you’re too poor.
America bought the land from Mexico for $15 million.
And when America bought the land from Mexico there was no Latinos. It was unpopulated desert. Learn history.
I follow and support "Western Values" but despise pretty much everyone featured in this video other than Mr. Beat himself. Hell of a position to be in.
lol right on
@@iammrbeat PS: Congrats to your son for topping the RUclips top-earners list :P
I think Ben's deleted tweet "Arabs just bomb shit and live in sewage" gives us a better idea of what he thinks separates West and Not West
Would the phrase "European Enlightenment Values" be a more accurate moniker for what is often attributed to "Western" values; Liberal Democracy/Republicanism, Freedom of Expression, The Scientific method (as opposed to simply "science" which every culture has cultivated to a varying degree), etc?
Yes,this is a more accurate phrase.Although it is still mistaken,as the term "european enlightenment value" presumed that enlightenment mindset was widespread or widely accepted in Europe
Because,when we read European history,enlightenment values were very controversial even in the most secular and democratic European states.
Reactionary anti enlightenment revolts,such as carlists in Spain or ultramontanists in Italy occured frequently (and very violently)
Everytime I hear "Western Value", I feel like going for Value Meal at Mcdonalds
Lol but its meant Christianity
PS: My A-Level Politics teacher (that's, er, 17-18yo pre-college studies to US readers?) was a student of Naill Ferguson when he was doing his own history degree become becoming a teacher. This was in about the early 90s before he went full into what he's known for now, and just made contrarian and annoying TV documentaries. Apparently as a tutor he was "a bit of a twat" and everything I've read about him since has backed that up.
"Contrarian" is the more scientific word to describe him, I think. lol
I would agree that any specific value can be held by other regions and groups of people. But the collection of them all together originated in the West during enlightenment. While other places may say they hold some of the same values, their definition may be very different. One persons view of safety may be very different to someone else. (Some people may feel safe when they have a gun, others may be terrified by the concept. But they both value safety).
I can see how calling these values, “Western Values” can be counter productive. But implying everyone holds these values is flat out wrong. Often if they do, the values came from the West. I think it’s fair to call them “Enlightenment Values/ideas” but again, saying Values isn’t accurate.
Well when the crusaders sacked the very Christian Constantinople is released a tidal wave of knowledge and inspiration that created the Renaissance. Without that sacking the western part of Europe would've stayed in the dark ages much longer and the enlightenment wouldn't have happened in Western Europe.
Do you see democracy as a part of western civilisation?
nazi apologist
The western world is basically the Euro-Christian civilization, including all the nations which have been established on the Greco-Roman foundations, and where Christianity is the dominant religion, so I wouldn't make a distinction between the Roman-Catholic and the Orthodox spheres, or I would even go so far as qualify the pre-islamic cultures in the Middle-East and North-Africa as remains of the western world, as they played an important role within the Greco-Roman civilization, and for development of Christianity.
it's funny how we westener love and value our freedom , but not that of the others
where is that written?
This is the exact same thing when some people still wanna believe secularism is an exclusive property for atheists. (when in fact, it really isn't) Because the founding fathers who have created our secular constitution weren't even atheists. They were deists, and some of them were even christians.
So, therefore, theists can also embrace secular values. I personally have no idea where do people get this weird idea that being secular is a reserved thing for atheists. It really isn't.
The deity of deism is very...wishy-washy, to say the least.
@@vodkatonyq What do you even mean by that?
I don’t just value you
I western value you
Awww
I value you, Mr. Beat. Such great, unbiased, informative content you share. Thank you
This video is empty-headed propaganda.
@@joshuamoher9375 The term "Western Values" is definitely empty-headed propaganda
To think this video constitutes an accurate and unbiased discussion of the subject matter requires a truly profound ignorance of history and contemporary reality, as well as an total lack of intuition. Near every point made is shallow and/or blatantly incorrect.
Why consider capitalism a value while it is a system? Value is principle and system is just a means. It is important to differentiate between the two. Keep in mind that systems are for people and not people to be sacrificed for systems and ways of life.
To answer your final questions, my favorite western value is the Wendy's 4 for $4, which is a great value at a low price. My favorite eastern value is 27,800 Japanese yen, which is roughly the value of 200 apples, if you wanted to buy that many apples for some reason. My favorite southern value is barbecues, and my favorite northwestern value is Seattle Seahawks fans being loud enough to create miniature earthquakes.
And yes Mr Beat, I do value you
Do you people even know where the term Western comes from?
It's actually been referred to people living in Europe because that's what they call the Europeans a lot of times throughout history. When you have travelers and people that traded that went Eastward they called them westerners, sometimes they call all Europeans Norseman or Franks. Why did they call them? Because they're people that traveled East from the West and their distinctively a different culture.
Whuh who would have thought? The term Western has an origin? Wow.
@@landsknecht8654 The comment being 5 months old aside, I think you missed some fairly obvious satirical context in his comment.
I think Western Civilization is a coherent concept that can be discussed. I also think we can discuss East Asian civilization for instance by identifying the philosophies, cultures, and history of East Asia which make it different from Europe or America. For example one could make a serious case that many of the ideals of the CCP contain many Confucian concepts.
Indeed, but one also must make a distinction between chinese legalism, and confucianism, which is more similar to the indian society
S G I think you are totally wrong in this matter, and your argument fall apart in your quote, the CCP stand for Chinese Communist Party, Communism itself a western value, socialism, and nationalism, is very Western ideology! If you uesed your standards, it's quite funny how right wings politicians, associated capitalizalism with western and remove globalism, Communism and socialism from western values
@@khaleddekar2188 communism was mainly adopted by rather eastern or eurasian nations like russia and china
@@Cecilia-ky3uw no not, really, the CCP had very anti-Confucianism except in recent years in Xi time, the adopted more nationalistic terms, and Yugoslavia, and Cuba adopted communism they aren't Asian or Eurasian,
And we must agree that communism was fundamental a western ideology stime from western people Karl Mark was German, the first adoption of communism was in Paris communi government 1870, not in Russia, I think the linking of CCP and Confucianism is nonsense to be honest
@@khaleddekar2188 Let us start with Yugoslavia, it is in the balkans, which could be considered somewhat eurasian culturally, although with heavy european influence, Cuba sort of depends, in fact the status of all of latin america sort of depends
"Basically it refers to Europe or any part of the world that has historically been heavily influenced by Europe..."
*Do you have any idea of how little does that narrows it down?*
lol true
Oh no! There are people featuring in this video who think their culture and values are better than everyone else's. This must be the first time in human history that ever happened.
"rule of law" is my favourite western value that's a completely general human concept. And queuing, the British think that making an orderly queue to receive some good or service is simply impossible elsewhere, or that nobody in the UK would ever cheat the queue (some people do and often enough)
The rule of law: Constitutionalism with a chapter on bill of human rights is a Western idea.
At least you're more specific
You know you're lying when you claim most people in the world value individualism, Liberal Democracy, Freedom of Religion, and Secular government.
Exactly, that is actually the sort of Eurocentric view of the world that guys like Mr. Beat claim to hate.
@@dylanjohnson8891 its funny
I agree that calling values "Western" is not useful; if they're good values they should belong to everybody. But pretending that the only problem with "Muslim values" is a few extremists is disingenuous. As a lesbian atheist, I'm well aware that there is no Muslim majority country where I could have lived openly and safely, if I had been born there instead of in the West
I’m not really convinced by Mr. Beats argument here. I just wish he looked into the underpinnings of the values from the West and East. We can always find anomalies in history, the more interesting question is why are they there? Is it cognitive dissonance? What led to them developing? My personal methodology to determine if “Western values” really exist would be to determine which philosophical and religious principle lead to greatest flourishing and then determine what nations/peoples hold to them and their results. I’m just bummed out that the important questions, in regard to this discussion, of religion and philosophy were left out in the video.
I think you will find it impossible to get an agreed upon answer to “which philosophical and religious principle lead to greatest flourishing.” If we had an agreement to that then there would be very little reason to argue about anything.
I know this isn’t related to the video, but I’m just curious to know if you could live in any other state other Kansas or Nebraska, what state would you pick.
Either Arkansas or Virginia at this point
@@iammrbeat move to texas
I would probably say Massachusetts or maybe North Carolina.
@@christianweibrecht6555 yeehaw
@@christianweibrecht6555 Too many people moving there