ROCOR is the only jurisdiction in the US that had no issue allowing me to receive baptism by triple immersion which is set to happen for me on May 18th, 2024.
I should mention that I am coming from Catholicism into Orthodoxy and previously received what Catholicism considers baptism by pouring and sprinkling of water on the top of my head when I came into Catholicism in 2011.
“I remember the words of Saint Paisios, who told me that, most of the time, the baptism that the heretics perform only passes over their skin”, Father Cosmas of Grigoriou in Apostle to Zaire
I made a case to my priest that my Protestant single-immersion “baptism” was eunomian in origin and that Protestants are non sacramental, they don’t acknowledge the regenerative nature of baptism and don’t believe in the priesthood, and my bishop agreed, so I was given the actual one baptism as written in the creed, a triple immersion baptism. I am greatly concerned that orthodox in the west are simply being waived through via chrismation by the thousands and thousands. Entire parishes of chrismated-only converts because these priests and bishops are just saying “oh your baptism was in the name of the F/S/HS? You’re good, we accept that.” Economia is NOT being applied carefully and for extreme circumstances anymore, and it is wrong.
Saint Basil the great was asked to write a treaty on the Holy Spirit. Within this extremely spiritually edifying writing, a question was posed regarding holy Baptism to the Saint; The holy Saint answered that there is no difference between those who haven’t at all been baptized and those who haven’t been baptized correctly. In the USA the first native born American Saint, Fr. Sebastian likewise in His book printed in 1899 on the Church mysteries, vehemently opposed the heretical innovations creeping into Orthodoxy from the fallen West of aspersion and affusion. He prophetically warned of what would happen if the Orthodox started being influenced by the heterodox innovations and interpretations, which we have been witnessing openly for decades and now are reaping what was allowed to be sowed.
The necessary presuppositions for œconomia are not at all complicated. It’s one thing to come across someone who requires disambiguation, but it’s a whole other thing to find someone who understands the necessary presuppositions and just rejects them without any basis whatsoever, legitimate or not. Lord have mercy.
@@florida5236 Sure. The first book is located within the collection of writings of the holy Fathers, letters of Saint Basil the great. Here is the exact quote: Whether a man have departed this life without Baptism, or have received a Baptism lacking in some of the requirements of the tradition, his loss is equal. The second book is; The Holy Orthodox Church or the Ritual, Services, And Sacraments Of The Eastern Apostolic ( Greek-Russian) Church. By the Rev. Sebastian Dabovich
I have been baptized by triple immersion (and chrismated obviously) on 14th of April, during the divine Liturgy as in the old church. I‘m glad I have such a good bishop and priest who did not accept my protestant „baptism“.
Was baptized 2 times in Protestantism. Was very happy that my priest and bishop still suggested I got baptized. Glad to have experienced this mystery done correctly!
Unfortunately getting a standard triple full immersion baptism is a challenge now a days. I had to fight to get all my children baptized in this way including my convert husband. Such a shame. I always questioned should I have been so bold? Am I being legalistic like jews? Thanks father for putting this out.
Father Bless, My wife and I are converts set to be received by Christmation on this coming Saturday. Our previous baptisms were seen and accepted as valid by our Bishop (in our case we defer to the Metropolitan lacking a Bishop assigned to our area of the nation) and we desire to come into the Church with a spirit of humility and obedience. That being said, I also want to do what is right not just for myself but for my wife and for our eternal souls. Being only a catechumen I am torn on how to address the situation, and can really only pray that the Holy Spirit is guiding our clergy correctly. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.
Lord have mercy. This happens too often. The book “On the Reception of the Heterodox into the Orthodox Church: The Patristic Consensus and Criteria” shows that according to the Kollyvades Fathers and many saints there is no justification for receiving a person by a means other than triple immersion baptism unless they are dying and full immersion in water is impossible. Consequently, many holy saints and elders have said that if a person is received by chrismation they still are in need of baptism, so it is best to be baptized by an Orthodox priest who will follow the teachings of the Church and do things correctly from the beginning.
in cases where triple immersion was not possible due to practical reasons ( generally with children or people that wanted to be baptised and were in danger of death) it was accepted as an exception pouring or sprinkling. Also pouring is done for adults that get baptised. The west took this exception and made it a rule
In Japan, traditionally the Japanese Orthodox Church hasn’t performed full immersion baptisms, but irrigation or drip baptism due to: lack of actual facilities and conditions to perform this in each church. I will be baptized and chrismated this Sunday (Palm Sunday), would you consider me to have snuck in through the back door of the church, and to need to be rebaptized due to these rather unfortunate circumstances? I’m just happy that we can make do what we have, and that I’ll soon be part of the body of Christ. I’ve heard even sand baptism is acceptable in places where there is scarcity of water (i.e. the desert), although I’d consider Japan to be the opposite in this regard (monsoon season is on the way). Thanks, and God bless you
@Theotoki303 It’s one thing to explain the importance of “triple immersion”, but to insist (weekly) on “corrective baptism” and denying salvation to millions of Orthodox brothers who were canonically received by Chrismation is problematic. Our Merciful Savior saves Whom He wills. God bless! 🙏🏽
@Theotoki303newsflash! Fr.Seraphim Rose was not unique in his reception by chrismation! The truth and matter of fact is that prior to the 70s if you were converting to Orthodoxy in rocor from RCC, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, well then you were getting Chrismated. Russian Church still follows that tradition only rocor does not after the 70s!
@@OrthoChi20 The ROCOR Synod in the Aftermath of Vatican 2 stopped blanket accepting RC Baptisms. The reason being that the faith Vatican 2 put forward was not the faith that was mentioned in the service books for Reception. And if RC Baptisms couldn't be acceptable then neither could Protestant Baptisms. And this doesn't go against any Tradition the Church holds to, because Proper Reception is decided by the Synods.
Saint Basil the Great calls Baptism performed by threefold immersion as a dogma in his dogmatic epistle. Perhaps for us, the weak Christians of last times, Saint Basil the Great, in his dogmatic canonical epistle about the Holy Spirit to Blessed Amphilochius, writes about threefold immersion the following: "Such a custom, for instance (to mention the first and most common one first), is that of sealing or stamping with the sign of the Cross those who have set their hopes in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who has taught it in writing? That of turning towards the east when praying - what writing has taught us to do this? The words uttered in the invocation connected with the exhibition of the Eucharist and of the chalice of the blessing, what Saint has bequeathed them to us? For indeed we are not even content with these, which the Apostle or the Gospel has mentioned, but we add other ones before and after them on the ground that they contribute greatly to enhance the Mystery, which words we have received from unwritten teaching. We bless the water of baptism and the oil of the anointment (or chrism), and in addition thereto even the person being baptized, with reference to what documents? Is it not with reference to silent and mystic tradition? But what else? What written word has taught us the use of the oil in the anointment? AND WHENCE COMES THE IDEA OF BAPTIZING A PERSON THREE TIMES (IN SUCCESSION)? But, in fact, whatever is connected with baptism, renouncing Satan and his angels, from what Scripture is it? Is it not from this unpublished and confidential teaching which our Fathers have kept as a guarded secret in unmeddlesome and incurious silence, they having rightly enough taught to preserve the respectable parts of the Mysteries in silenced. For when it comes to things which the uninitiated were not allowed even to lay eyes on, how could the teaching thereof be expected to triumph if embodied in writing? And not to speak of other things, this was the reason for unwritten tradition, as not having been thoroughly studied, to render knowledge of the dogmas a distasteful subject to the majority of men because of custom. For dogma is a thing that is quite different from preaching. For dogmas can be slurred over in silence, but preaching has to be given publicity." (91st canon of St. Basil the Great)
My conviction is the same and it, I believe, comes from trust to the Lord and the holy Apostles. Based on the apostolic rules, conciliar decrees of the Orthodox Church, and the works of the Right Reverend Michael (Luzin) “On Baptism through Immersion and Pouring,” we can draw the following conclusion about the Sacrament of Baptism. Because: 1. Christ Himself was baptized by immersion from John, 2. St. Apostles baptized through immersion, 3. This Sacrament was performed through immersion in the ancient universal Church, 4. finally, immersion in water accurately expresses the inner power and effect of Baptism - our spiritual rebirth, burial with Christ and co-resurrection with Him, 5. there is the agreement of the holy fathers: what for Christ the Lord was the cross and the tomb, for us there is Baptism; and the imitation of the death and burial of Christ, performed by us, is depicted in the element closest to the earth - in water, 6. In addition, out of their love for us, the apostles gave the commandment to baptize only by three times immersion in water in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and to cast out a priest who does otherwise (50th Apostolic Canon), 7. The VI-th and VII-th Ecumenical Councils demand the expulsion of a priest who violated the 50th Apostolic Canon, 8. The Council of Constantinople in 1756 determined to baptize all those converting to Orthodoxy who had not been baptized through threefold immersion, and this is the last conciliar decision on the issue of Baptism in the Ecumenical Orthodox Church, then all this aforementioned leads to the conclusion that the Sacrament of Baptism must be performed through immersion. Hieromartyr Cyprian of Carthage, in his letter to Magnus, answers what he thinks about those who were baptized in illness by pouring. Are they baptized? St. Cyprian answers that if Baptism by pouring took place: 1) at the request of need (cogente necessitate), 2) according to the faith of the baptizer, 3) according to the faith of the person baptized, then, by the grace of God, grace is fully imparted to the believer even with the reduction of the divinely established order. That is, Saint Cyprian admonishes us that, in the event of mortally dangerous circumstances (in illness, prison, desert), according to the faith of the baptizer and the baptized, we believe that out of His ineffable love and mercy for us, God will condescend and impart grace to the Sacrament, also during Baptism by pouring. It’s like the Baptism of a newborn baby with a heart defect; he cannot but be baptized; delay is mortally dangerous, and Baptism by immersion is impossible. In other cases, it happens according to the word of Jesus Christ: “Whoever listens to you [Apostles] listens to Me; whoever rejects you rejects Me; but whoever rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” (Luke 10:16). The 50th rule of the Apostles requires Baptism by threefold immersion. If I reject the Apostles, the Lord rejects me. Forgive us, Father! My conviction comes from trust in the Lord and the holy Apostles.
I suffer from extreme fear and anxiety most of my whole life. I have a hard time understanding and accepting the Gospel in my heart and having a hard time deciding what church to go to becauseof lack of trust. I hear what ppl are saying, but dont know what/who to believe. Any advice on how to handle this type of personality and situation and what step i can take from this point??
@@LadyMariaBeing baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit means you have a valid baptism. Your soul is configured and you can receive the sacraments.re-baptism is a sin the Orthodox commit on the reg because of their superiority complex and wanting inclusivity and control. They're on a power trip, is what it comes down to.
@@TruLuan Do you trust to the Ecumenical Councils? Think that the Church decided in the First Ecumenical Council to baptise all Paulinises, which previously had been accepted to the Church by chrismation only. Some of these Paulinises even became the Orthodox priests in the Church and in spite of this fact the Church decided to baptise them. So, it means that Paulinises being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit didn't have a valid baptism. The same with other heretics: Marcionists, Valentinians, Eunomians, Catholics, protestants, etc.: they had some ritual, but they don't have baptism.
So I was received into the Orthodox Church (GOARCH) last December by Holy Chrismation but was not baptized. My bishop decided I didn’t need to be baptized. Should I accept this or go to a priest who will baptize into the Church? My local parish seemed that since I was “baptized” as an infant into the Methodist church, an adult baptism wasn’t needed.
I’m surprised the priest forewarned them he wouldn’t immerse fully. I’d expect they wouldn’t tell you and then do it wrong where they think you then can’t fix it
I was baptized into the Catholic Church as a teenager. I am currently a catechumen into the Orthodox Church and it’s my understanding that the Bishop will only allow for me to be Chrismated. I am disappointed because it’s my understanding that even Papal Protestants are to be Baptized by full immersion in order to convert. I am torn. The Father at the Church has been so wonderful as have the people. Going to another Orthodox Church just to be baptized would be hurtful to what I consider my new home.
If a priest or bishop cannot receive you as is required by the canons and the teachings of the Fathers, after you are received, how will they guide you to salvation if they do not follow Orthodox teaching?
Baptism, which is performed “in the likeness” and “in the image” of death and resurrection in threefold immersion, is not a symbol or sign of death and resurrection, but is true death and true resurrection in Christ. In order to follow Christ, one must first die and rise again with Him and in Him. It is clear that pouring and sprinkling in no way represent death and resurrection. A person who becomes a participant in a sprinkling “rite”, namely a rite, and not a Sacrament, loses not only its symbolic, dogmatic content, but also does not participate in any way in the co-death and co-resurrection of Christ, and refuses to accept the Lord’s sacrifice on the cross. He does not open the doors of the Church and does not enter the Building, but only mentally imitates the entrance, in reality still remaining on the street.
And what to do in regards to that problem? I was baptised by pouring 2 years ago, i had no idea this was an issue, i dont know anymore, it's leading me to lose Faith.
The Didache which IS the oldest known Christian Document has this to say about Christian Baptism.....And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father, and Son, and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
Apostolic Canon 50: If any bishop or priest does not perform three immersions in baptism, let him be deposed. St. Nikodemos, St. Hilarion, St. Paisios and many of the holiest men of our day all agree that you must retain the form unless there is a dire necessity.
Read it carefully: BAPTIZE (i.e. IMMERSE) this way (i.e all three examples are of IMMERSION): Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if (IF...) you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if (IF...) you cannot (CANNOT) in cold, in warm. But if (IF...) you have not either, pour out water thrice upon... (i.e. simulate IMMERSION -- totally covering the ENTIRE BODY). We have no excuse today. We CAN baptize properly. There is no IF in 99% of the cases. There is ignorance, indifference, laziness, confusion, or heterodox ideas... BUT NOT ANY REAL NECESSITY to depart from BAPTISM/IMMERSION.
@@Justin_Vaughan Since the Didache is the oldest document from the time of the Apostles and the idea of baptizing goes way back even further, i think i will stick with the original understanding before men started meddling with it. If it was good enough for the times of the Apostles i would say it is good enough for me. Oh yea one last thought, it seems really a good idea to fast before being baptized as is stated in the Didache.
@@OrthodoxEthos I would agree with you that today people do not have an excuse not to be fully immersed in Baptism, however times do have a way of changing and due to what is needed at that time pouring may be more realistic due to circumstances. We are living in very bad times and it is going to get worse before it gets better . Anyway if possible immerse. But i have to say i really appreciate the idea of fasting before baptism as seems to have been required in the past.
The book “On the Reception of the Heterodox” addresses the Didache and all of these objections. Baptism by any means other than three full immersions in the name of the Holy Trinity is absolutely forbidden except for cases of emergency where a person is dying and immersion in water is impossible. This was always how the Didache was understood. The book “On the Reception of the Heterodox” demonstrates that this is how the saints, Fathers and canons interpret this as well.
Father, I am baptised and chrismated into the Orthodox Church by affusion as a child. What would you say to me and the millions of Orthodox people who are baptised this way, that my baptism is invalid and that I need to be “baptised correctly”?
I insisted.. I said i can do anything even though it was cold in the church (November 24th in Slovenia in Serbian Orthodox church). But they then pured a water (cuz there are turist coming into the Church, very cold, no warm water..) . I couldn't do anything.. Do i need maybe corrective baptism?
We die, are buried and rise again with Christ. Also, the Holy Trinity. In a single immersion, one is baptized into Christ's death only, and not into the Holy Trinity either.
Fr Peter, on live-chat today I asked your opinion on Elphidophoros' officiation of baptism of gay couples' 2 babies and whether this was in line with Orthodox doctrines or was a plasphemy. Are you avoiding my question because you are serving Orthodoxy in the jurisdiction of Elphidophoros or was it simply my bad luck my question was missed during the broadcast?
Archbishop Elpidophoros will answer for the handing to the Wolf of Souls those Children he Baptised. If not now then before God. Pray fervently that those children come to know the Fullness of the Faith they were Given.
@@pah9730 Fr Peter thanks for the clarification! EP was supposed to be a role model for all Orthodox believers instead of acting radically against our Orthodox doctrine..
@@Yozefff Not all. The OCA released a Statement signed by her Hierarchs condemning the Act. The Greek Church in Greece has stated that it was wrong. And the Russians have bigger concerns with the EP at the moment.
Is the rubbing of someone from head to toe before being immersed in the water a part of the Apostolic tradition or is it an innovation? I am not talking about the actual seal of the Holy Spirit.
Father, what should I do where I was Chrismated into Orthodoxy but just now found out that my Protestant/Evangelical "baptism" that occured when I was a kid is invalid? Wasnt even Triple Immersion just a single immersion in a hot tub.
the water temp is crucial it must be between 75-80 degrees ...you should not be held under for more that 3 seconds and then left to dry off naturally without towel drying
While all said is correct I am curious how triple immersion is done for adults? As a Serbian and member of Serbian Orthodox Church I was (we all are more or less) baptized as a baby when it is easy to perform triple immersion but there simply are no proper opportunities or facilities to do that for anyone 5yr old and up.
People are immersed in a walk in font. That's what I was baptized in. Others are baptized in horse troughs which are not expensive. It's not that hard to triple immerse adults. One doesn't need a permanent facility. It's just usually laziness on the part of the baptizer or whoever made that decision.
@LadyMaria thank you. Walk in font is not a thing in Serbia and many other Eastern Orthodox Churches. Neither are horse troughs while it is possible to get one or something of similar shape and size. It could be "laziness" but I doubt anything is done without blessing from a Bishop or a Patriarch, though definitely there probaly are priests doing things out of laziness indeed.
I have a wue for anyone who is orthodox that can answer, I understand full immersion ofc and I completely agree but why is it triple immersion? Even (from what I have heard of) John, did he not just immersion those he baptized once?
If you are confused by the threefoldness, then I agree with you that during Baptism the Holy Trinity was revealed in a different way: the Father, through a voice from heaven, testifying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; The Holy Spirit in the form of a snow-white dove descended on the head of Jesus Christ. With three immersions and emersions both faith in the Holy Trinity is clearly affirmed and the three days’ death and burial and resurrection of the Savior are at the same time symbolized. Thence it consequently follows that our baptism comprises the two foremost dogmas of our expression of the orthodox faith - that of the theology of the vivifying Trinity, and that of the incarnate economy of the God Logos.
We all should be careful that this can create some conclusions that may be incorrect such as "if you are not triple immersed (but poured over head) during Holy Sacrament of Baptism you will be going to hell". Maybe Father Peter can clarify on this as I am just an unworthy servant of God. God bless!
@@TruLuanExcept the Roman church broke with the rest of the Church and then made a new communion of churches.. Original rebellion begat rebellion, that is how Protestantism was born..
This is what happens when we become legalistic. No one knows who is going to hell or not, it is up to God and His Mercy. If He is judging us by were we 100% immersed or only 87%, I am afraid our Orthodox faith is not truly correct.
@LadyMaria maybe I wasn't clear as English is not my primary language. I was trying to point out to confusion about full immersion and what it means and how people tend to draw conclusions like "if your elbow wasn't fully immersed you are going to hell". That's what my "incorrect" part is referring to as saying or thinking something like that is very dangerous. Btw in Serbian for baptism we use word "krstenje" which means "washing away (sins)" not immersion as is in greek.
Where does it say in the Bible that three dunks are necessary? Tradition is nice but biblical support is far more important. As a disciple who was baptized with a full immersion in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who declared Jesus as Lord, I am asking out of love and genuine interest. God bless.
The Bible is itself a part of Holy Tradition. The doctrine of the Trinity itself is not explicitly laid out in the Bible either, neither are many other things.
Apostles did so, I don't know exactly where is it but I know that they did so (including baptism of disciples of John the forerunner by three times immersion)
Βαπτίζω στα ελληνικά, τα οποία είναι η γλώσσα στην οποία γράφτηκε η Καινή Διαθήκη, σημαίνει βουτάω,βυθίζω στο νερό. Οπότε μην αναρρωτιόμαστε που το λέει στην Αγία Γραφή. Ο ίδιος ο Ιησούς το είπε. Baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. He didn't say wet them,He said baptize them.
Baptising in the Name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Baptize = immersion. That is what the word means. One immersion with every Name. The practice of the Church from the beginning and witnessed to in many canons and fathers.
@@OrthodoxEthos Father, I was "baptized" when I was maybe 10 years old by getting sprinkled or poured, don't remember exactly. Would it be correct of me to ask a priest to *properly* baptize me now, 24 years later? Thank you!
@@OrthodoxEthosThank you for your explanation I myself who have never been baptized would like to know your thoughts on self baptism. The Bible doesn’t speak about it but I’m curious to know your thoughts. I personally will never call another man father besides The Lord so I address you as another spiritual being having a human experience in this physical realm. Also, Who has the proper authority to perform baptisms when our Lord Jesus says that their is no one that is good but the one true God?
@@Yaruandromedano1998 You refute yourself in your own question, You imply that no one has the authority to perform baptism yet Christ himself was Baptized by John the Baptist as were many others.
@@JW-oe1lf it’s not refuting it’s simply stating redundantly because God himself is taking his time on showing me the truth as I study his word more and more. Which is why I question whether or not self baptism is as affective as having someone else do it for you. Yes you have some reason we all know John baptized Jesus , it still doesn’t change what Jesus said later on though. Had he been baptized or not he still would be the son of God .
@@OrthodoxEthos Water baptism is a ceremony. Why three times? Oneness Pentecostals dunk a person until they come up speaking in tongues. I'd speak in tongues to stop drowning but thank God I'm Not a Pentecostal. Tongues is evidence of a gift. The Initial evidence of the Holy Spirit is being able to say Jesus is Lord. 1st Corinthians 12:3 I received the Fruit of the Holy Spirit when I said a sinners prayer. I grew up in the Catholic Church but the Our Father is Not prayed in the name of the Lord Jesus. When I prayed in the name of Jesus Christ, I was saved. When the elders laid their hands on me I received the gift of tongues. I have been used to prophecy but I am not a prophet. It does not happen often. 1st Corinthians 14:1 Pursue Love (Galatians 5:22,23) and desire spiritual gifts (1st Corinthians 12-14) especially that you might prophecy. May God's will be done in the name of His Son Jesus our Anointed Lord and King, amen.
@@ElohimistsYou think you received the Holy Spirit when you recited some prayer. That is prelest. The mode for receiving the Holy Spirit, after the day of Pentecost, has always been triple immersion baptism. To be sealed with Him is in anointing. Pentecostal "Tongues" are a natural thing that happens when the brain is overstimulated emotionally. People get this in a myriad of situations, not all religious. Usually "prophesy" is prelest too.
@@LadyMaria What you are teaching is a Oneness Pentecostal doctrine. Tongues is evidence of a gift. There are many gifts that the Holy Spirit has to give. The Initial evidence of The Holy Spirit is being able to say Jesus is Lord. 1st Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed,” and no one is able to say, “Jesus is Lord,” if not in the Holy Spirit 29-31 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show to you now a more surpassing way.
@@Elohimists I'm not teaching anything, I'm telling you the truth. Pentecostalism is a sect made on high emotion. The Orthodox Church has all the gifts and always has. No fakery.
If you have been chrismated then your baptism has been accepted, so I do not think it should be redone. Strictly speaking, that means non-triple-immersed baptisms have been considered valid, but they are strongly not preferred, as evidenced by the history of the Church. It is a shame that churches have resorted to sprinkling out of convenience when it should really be a last resort. It should absolutely be required that churches perform full triple immersion except for circumstances where it would literally be impossible, but I cannot imagine what those circumstances would be.
But chrismation is another Mystery. There are two Mysteries taking place, the Holy Baptism and the Chrismation. They are two totally different things. How can Chrismation replace baptism?
"...considered valid"... according to who and on what basis? And what is "valid" in Orthodoxy. It can only refer to the form and never to the MYSTERY, which does not exist apart from, outside of, THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH, WHICH IS TO SAY THE EUCHARIST/EUCHARISTIC SYNAXIS.
If you can accept heterodox Baptism, why not also accept their chrismation and everything? We are not ecumenist. Heterodox aren’t baptized into the Church. How can such baptisms be considered valid?
Your original argument is something which I strictly agree with. When a priest or bishop only chrismates, they accept the baptism which that person has received outside of the one true Church. But we draw different conclusions. My conclusion which I draw is that when they do this, they are blessing a pagan pollution of the soul which absolutely should have been rectified with the one true baptism. The Church Fathers are clear since the apostolic canons, non Orthodox baptisms are invalid and pagan.
If you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit then you in fact have a valid baptism. Re-baptism is a sin and is done on the reg by the condescending, schismatic Orthodox. I love you guys but seriously stop doing this. Its nonsense.
It is not enough to be immersed in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to born again. One must have it inside of the Church. Paulinists, marcionists, valentinians, etc all of them had been immersed in the name of the Trinity, but the Church decided to reject their "baptism" and baptise them as unbaptized, since heretics were immersed outside of the Church.
@@TruLuan Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Church, that's why your words seem as a game of the mind or sophistry, which does not give anything to the search for truth. Korah, Dathan and Abiron, who served the priest Aaron, as soon as they dared to rebel against him and consider themselves equal to the commanding priest, immediately, being swallowed up and devoured by the opening earth, received punishment for their sacrilegious insolence. When anybody tries to baptise outside of the Church, he will receive the same as Korah, Dathan and Abiron. This is biblical teaching.
@@johanjohanson7420 My comment seems fallacious to you because you do not understand Christs very own teaching on baptism and you also do not understand the concept of original sin and how baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit re-configures your soul for the sacraments and removes that original sin. Even some Protestants have valid baptisms. A proper baptism and accepting the teachings of the Apostles Creed is what makes one a Christian, whether you are getting the fulness of the faith is another story. This is why we have the Catholic Church, founded by Christ who built her on Peter as the Rock. You should read scriptures in context as you will start to see how the filioque is biblical, understand Gods grace, and God's loving qualities which the Orthodox have a hard time grasping due to their superiority complex. You should also look up what sophistry and the context of my last comment. The ability to "think before you speak" (in this case type) is a virtue. God Bless.
@@johanjohanson7420 The Didache clearly states a preference for use of “living” and “cold” water (water that is flowing - e.g., river) but it says nothing about immersion. As a matter of fact, the Didache only mentions the pouring of water explicitly. In addition, when we examine Sacred Scripture, we find that there is not one description of the means of Baptism to be found in the Bible. It is only in sacred art that we find depictions of full immersion and that has led many to read into instructions, like those found in the Didache, what they have seen in imagery. That said, even if the Didache did provide specific instructions, it would still not be a magisterial document that had any weight to establish a normative means of conferring a sacrament in the Church that Christ established with Peter at its head. The same can be said of any of the writings of the Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr or ecclesial writers like Tertulian. So let us look at what the Church actually teaches. The Catechism of the Council of Trent states that Baptism may be administered in three ways - by immersion, infusion, or aspersion - and all are considered valid. The Catechism of the Catholic Church confirms that the essential rite of Baptism consists of immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on the head while invoking the Most Holy Trinity. The Catechism does tell us that, “Baptism is performed in the most expressive way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head” (CCC 1239). Therefore, the Catechism (a Magisterial document), while identifying immersion as “the most expressive way”, says nothing about it being normative. As for the Baptismal formula, clearly the instructions given by Christ himself are our best guide. The Catholic Church follows this and so do some Protestants.
@@OrthodoxEthos i really don't understand why we should endanger infants that have no clue that they are getting baptized. Don't we tempt God by doing this?
Free baptisms are any baptism as total paganism.Nobody's phone Matthew 28 missed dispensation.That was totally Jewish.I love some things you're saying but if this is totally made up this is totally made of ritual
Nobody should "insist" anything from a priest. Going to church isn't like going to a fast food restaurant where you pick from a menu. No layman has the right to tell a priest that he is wrong for not doing triple immersion. You should show respect to the clergy. Further, most adults or children bigger than infants around the world have been accepted into Orthodoxy via sprinkling or pouring as most churches simply don't have the facilities to do full baptisms.
Really? Where is the line? When he tells you to accept homosexuality, do nothing? This is not what the Fathers teach at all. But why have a line there and not on the most basic, foundational Mystery of Initiation -- the foundation of your spiritual life?
@@OrthodoxEthos Show me the correlation between priests that pour and those that "accept homosexuality" in the Orthodox church? Give me an example. Because I know for certain that Greek Archbishop Elpidophoros did triple immersion of the children of the gay couple that created a scandal back in September 2022.
@@OrthodoxEthos father, i have sadly been Baptised within The Orthodox Church through pouring of water over my head, does this invalidate my Baptism, or is it perhaps unideal, but still valid? God bless, thanks in advance for you answer.
The Holy Mystery of Baptism has no comparison with what you're choosing for lunch that day. Clergy should be shown respect and reverence, but it's the responsibility of every Orthodox person -- clergy or laity -- to speak out, discerningly, when the teachings of the Church are being transgressed. St. John Chrysostom himself instructs us that "we must not mind insulting men, if by respecting them we offend God."
@@Justin_Vaughan You have no comparison with St. John Chrysostom either, Justin. A priest that's been serving for decades all of a sudden has people from the church of cyberdoxy telling him how to do a sacrament? No.
Jesus wasn’t triple immersed though… was He? “In the name of the Father (splash), You (splash) and that Bird flying overhead (splash)”. 😅 Baptism, as I was taught at least, represents death. YOU DON’T DIE THRICE!
your mistake is in thinking that baptism "represents" something, as opposed to being the mechanism by which something actually happens. if it was symbolic, then sure, triple dunking Christ would be strange. baptism is not a mere symbol, though. symbols don't cure leprosy.
Baptism has always been thrice immersion because we die with Christ, are buried with Him and rise again anew with Him. It isn't just death, it's Resurrection too. Baptism is not merely symbolic but has a spiritual element to it, bringing us into communion with the Church (Orthodox), and infusing us with God's grace. It is a Holy Mystery.
@@bruhbbawallace Baptism is Symbolic, we have just lost in our culture that "Symbol" means "Both Representative and Reality". It does Represent the 3 Day Burial of Christ and it is also our Participation in that 3 Day Burial.
This whole comment section is lost. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit means accepting all truth you’re being told. it has nothing to do with Roman bathing. The water means purification. Putting it on your temple means., your mind. All you are supposed to do is purify your mind with absolute truth…. You could rub tons of water all over your head all day self righteous church on the planet.. still have not accepted the Holy Spirit, God’s spirit, it Hass to absolutely tell the truth. He is not 3. He is 1 if you except this fact you can move on to being possible born again. But you have to shed the old version of what you thought. That is baptism. Not this satanic Mariam grave robbing ritual. ✌️. Invite anyone to immerse in this truth. 🙏
That's modern low church Protestant ideas, but nothing the actual Church ever taught in 2,000 years. If anyone followed your ideas, he will be lead away from God. Your strawman are not very good.
@@pah9730 ✌️⚔️❤️. That’s what happens when you can rebuild the truth in one day… we are in that day. Zachariah will explain more about how yeshua comes back.. We have an upside down world right now is because we have Internet researching people that must find the truth… so God send it to them. And then there’s tv people that are lied to the pit. The tv is the flying scroll. The seven eyes in Zachariah are actually., God just showing you a multifaceted situation on the stone. Your tablet.. ☝️
ROCOR is the only jurisdiction in the US that had no issue allowing me to receive baptism by triple immersion which is set to happen for me on May 18th, 2024.
I’m getting triple immersion this weekend at my Greek Orthodox parish.
@@rileyp1419I did too. But it was because my "baptismal" certificate went missing.
Glory to God! ☦ God grant you both many years!
Glory to God!
I would recommend reading the Letter issued in September 2023 by His Grace Peter of Chicago (ROCOR) concerning "corrective baptisms".
I should mention that I am coming from Catholicism into Orthodoxy and previously received what Catholicism considers baptism by pouring and sprinkling of water on the top of my head when I came into Catholicism in 2011.
That is good news. I pray those who seek are able to find, and a priest is willing to initiate us who thirst
“I remember the words of Saint Paisios, who told me that, most of the time, the baptism that the heretics perform only passes over their skin”, Father Cosmas of Grigoriou in Apostle to Zaire
I made a case to my priest that my Protestant single-immersion “baptism” was eunomian in origin and that Protestants are non sacramental, they don’t acknowledge the regenerative nature of baptism and don’t believe in the priesthood, and my bishop agreed, so I was given the actual one baptism as written in the creed, a triple immersion baptism.
I am greatly concerned that orthodox in the west are simply being waived through via chrismation by the thousands and thousands. Entire parishes of chrismated-only converts because these priests and bishops are just saying “oh your baptism was in the name of the F/S/HS? You’re good, we accept that.”
Economia is NOT being applied carefully and for extreme circumstances anymore, and it is wrong.
Saint Basil the great was asked to write a treaty on the Holy Spirit. Within this extremely spiritually edifying writing, a question was posed regarding holy Baptism to the Saint; The holy Saint answered that there is no difference between those who haven’t at all been baptized and those who haven’t been baptized correctly.
In the USA the first native born American Saint, Fr. Sebastian likewise in His book printed in 1899 on the Church mysteries, vehemently opposed the heretical innovations creeping into Orthodoxy from the fallen West of aspersion and affusion. He prophetically warned of what would happen if the Orthodox started being influenced by the heterodox innovations and interpretations, which we have been witnessing openly for decades and now are reaping what was allowed to be sowed.
THANK YOU!
TRUE!!!
Can you please give the names of both books?
The necessary presuppositions for œconomia are not at all complicated. It’s one thing to come across someone who requires disambiguation, but it’s a whole other thing to find someone who understands the necessary presuppositions and just rejects them without any basis whatsoever, legitimate or not. Lord have mercy.
@@florida5236
Sure. The first book is located within the collection of writings of the holy Fathers, letters of Saint Basil the great. Here is the exact quote:
Whether a man have departed this life without Baptism, or have received a Baptism lacking in some of the requirements of the tradition, his loss is equal.
The second book is;
The Holy Orthodox Church or the Ritual, Services, And Sacraments Of The Eastern Apostolic ( Greek-Russian) Church.
By the Rev. Sebastian Dabovich
@@fr.averky7970 Thank you, greatly appreciated
Well done fr Peter for speaking the Truth of Lord Jesus Christ of His Church!
I have been baptized by triple immersion (and chrismated obviously) on 14th of April, during the divine Liturgy as in the old church. I‘m glad I have such a good bishop and priest who did not accept my protestant „baptism“.
You are the envy of kings
I am still trying to find one, Australia is full of demonic influence
you were baptised in the middle of Lent?
Is that not usual?
@@seraphim3TN It can happen, though most priests prefer to baptize on Pascha for obvious reasons.
@@seraphim3TN Yes, Oikonomia was used, due to various reasons
i recieved triple immersion baptism in a blow up pool in a romanian orthodox church
Amazing
I was Baptised in a Feed Tank in an Antiochian Parish.
Was baptized 2 times in Protestantism. Was very happy that my priest and bishop still suggested I got baptized. Glad to have experienced this mystery done correctly!
Unfortunately getting a standard triple full immersion baptism is a challenge now a days. I had to fight to get all my children baptized in this way including my convert husband. Such a shame. I always questioned should I have been so bold? Am I being legalistic like jews? Thanks father for putting this out.
It is our legal Christ given right to access the Holy Tradition, also we have an onus to do it right
Father Bless,
My wife and I are converts set to be received by Christmation on this coming Saturday. Our previous baptisms were seen and accepted as valid by our Bishop (in our case we defer to the Metropolitan lacking a Bishop assigned to our area of the nation) and we desire to come into the Church with a spirit of humility and obedience.
That being said, I also want to do what is right not just for myself but for my wife and for our eternal souls.
Being only a catechumen I am torn on how to address the situation, and can really only pray that the Holy Spirit is guiding our clergy correctly.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.
Lord have mercy. This happens too often. The book “On the Reception of the Heterodox into the Orthodox Church: The Patristic Consensus and Criteria” shows that according to the Kollyvades Fathers and many saints there is no justification for receiving a person by a means other than triple immersion baptism unless they are dying and full immersion in water is impossible. Consequently, many holy saints and elders have said that if a person is received by chrismation they still are in need of baptism, so it is best to be baptized by an Orthodox priest who will follow the teachings of the Church and do things correctly from the beginning.
Only through baptism can you be Christian and orthodox
“Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”
Scary times.
in cases where triple immersion was not possible due to practical reasons ( generally with children or people that wanted to be baptised and were in danger of death) it was accepted as an exception pouring or sprinkling. Also pouring is done for adults that get baptised. The west took this exception and made it a rule
Hence the reason I pushed for being Baptized and etc. Traditional Latin Mass Catholic, soon to be entering into the Orthodox church, God bless.
Πάτερ Πέτρος,
μπράβο σας, Καλά κανείς !
Καλή Ανάσταση !
Won't happen where I am but God willing someday somewhere...
In Japan, traditionally the Japanese Orthodox Church hasn’t performed full immersion baptisms, but irrigation or drip baptism due to: lack of actual facilities and conditions to perform this in each church. I will be baptized and chrismated this Sunday (Palm Sunday), would you consider me to have snuck in through the back door of the church, and to need to be rebaptized due to these rather unfortunate circumstances? I’m just happy that we can make do what we have, and that I’ll soon be part of the body of Christ. I’ve heard even sand baptism is acceptable in places where there is scarcity of water (i.e. the desert), although I’d consider Japan to be the opposite in this regard (monsoon season is on the way). Thanks, and God bless you
I'm getting baptized right before Christmas
“Yea, Lord and King! Grant me to see my own sins, and not to judge my brother (for neglecting rituals, canons, & laws)” (Prayer of St Ephraim) 👀
@Theotoki303 Indeed. The Truth is Christ our God. He asked us to love each other, and to not condemn our brothers! God bless! 🕯️
Amen. Αμήν. Амин.
@Theotoki303 It’s one thing to explain the importance of “triple immersion”, but to insist (weekly) on “corrective baptism” and denying salvation to millions of Orthodox brothers who were canonically received by Chrismation is problematic. Our Merciful Savior saves Whom He wills. God bless! 🙏🏽
@Theotoki303newsflash! Fr.Seraphim Rose was not unique in his reception by chrismation! The truth and matter of fact is that prior to the 70s if you were converting to Orthodoxy in rocor from RCC, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, well then you were getting Chrismated. Russian Church still follows that tradition only rocor does not after the 70s!
@@OrthoChi20
The ROCOR Synod in the Aftermath of Vatican 2 stopped blanket accepting RC Baptisms. The reason being that the faith Vatican 2 put forward was not the faith that was mentioned in the service books for Reception.
And if RC Baptisms couldn't be acceptable then neither could Protestant Baptisms.
And this doesn't go against any Tradition the Church holds to, because Proper Reception is decided by the Synods.
Saint Basil the Great calls Baptism performed by threefold immersion as a dogma in his dogmatic epistle. Perhaps for us, the weak Christians of last times, Saint Basil the Great, in his dogmatic canonical epistle about the Holy Spirit to Blessed Amphilochius, writes about threefold immersion the following:
"Such a custom, for instance (to mention the first and most common one first), is that of sealing or stamping with the sign of the Cross those who have set their hopes in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who has taught it in writing? That of turning towards the east when praying - what writing has taught us to do this? The words uttered in the invocation connected with the exhibition of the Eucharist and of the chalice of the blessing, what Saint has bequeathed them to us? For indeed we are not even content with these, which the Apostle or the Gospel has mentioned, but we add other ones before and after them on the ground that they contribute greatly to enhance the Mystery, which words we have received from unwritten teaching. We bless the water of baptism and the oil of the anointment (or chrism), and in addition thereto even the person being baptized, with reference to what documents? Is it not with reference to silent and mystic tradition? But what else? What written word has taught us the use of the oil in the anointment? AND WHENCE COMES THE IDEA OF BAPTIZING A PERSON THREE TIMES (IN SUCCESSION)? But, in fact, whatever is connected with baptism, renouncing Satan and his angels, from what Scripture is it? Is it not from this unpublished and confidential teaching which our Fathers have kept as a guarded secret in unmeddlesome and incurious silence, they having rightly enough taught to preserve the respectable parts of the Mysteries in silenced. For when it comes to things which the uninitiated were not allowed even to lay eyes on, how could the teaching thereof be expected to triumph if embodied in writing? And not to speak of other things, this was the reason for unwritten tradition, as not having been thoroughly studied, to render knowledge of the dogmas a distasteful subject to the majority of men because of custom. For dogma is a thing that is quite different from preaching. For dogmas can be slurred over in silence, but preaching has to be given publicity." (91st canon of St. Basil the Great)
My conviction is the same and it, I believe, comes from trust to the Lord and the holy Apostles.
Based on the apostolic rules, conciliar decrees of the Orthodox Church, and the works of the Right Reverend Michael (Luzin) “On Baptism through Immersion and Pouring,” we can draw the following conclusion about the Sacrament of Baptism.
Because:
1. Christ Himself was baptized by immersion from John,
2. St. Apostles baptized through immersion,
3. This Sacrament was performed through immersion in the ancient universal Church,
4. finally, immersion in water accurately expresses the inner power and effect of Baptism - our spiritual rebirth, burial with Christ and co-resurrection with Him,
5. there is the agreement of the holy fathers: what for Christ the Lord was the cross and the tomb, for us there is Baptism; and the imitation of the death and burial of Christ, performed by us, is depicted in the element closest to the earth - in water,
6. In addition, out of their love for us, the apostles gave the commandment to baptize only by three times immersion in water in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and to cast out a priest who does otherwise (50th Apostolic Canon),
7. The VI-th and VII-th Ecumenical Councils demand the expulsion of a priest who violated the 50th Apostolic Canon,
8. The Council of Constantinople in 1756 determined to baptize all those converting to Orthodoxy who had not been baptized through threefold immersion, and this is the last conciliar decision on the issue of Baptism in the Ecumenical Orthodox Church,
then all this aforementioned leads to the conclusion that the Sacrament of Baptism must be performed through immersion.
Hieromartyr Cyprian of Carthage, in his letter to Magnus, answers what he thinks about those who were baptized in illness by pouring. Are they baptized? St. Cyprian answers that if Baptism by pouring took place:
1) at the request of need (cogente necessitate),
2) according to the faith of the baptizer,
3) according to the faith of the person baptized,
then, by the grace of God, grace is fully imparted to the believer even with the reduction of the divinely established order.
That is, Saint Cyprian admonishes us that, in the event of mortally dangerous circumstances (in illness, prison, desert), according to the faith of the baptizer and the baptized, we believe that out of His ineffable love and mercy for us, God will condescend and impart grace to the Sacrament, also during Baptism by pouring. It’s like the Baptism of a newborn baby with a heart defect; he cannot but be baptized; delay is mortally dangerous, and Baptism by immersion is impossible.
In other cases, it happens according to the word of Jesus Christ:
“Whoever listens to you [Apostles] listens to Me; whoever rejects you rejects Me; but whoever rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” (Luke 10:16).
The 50th rule of the Apostles requires Baptism by threefold immersion. If I reject the Apostles, the Lord rejects me. Forgive us, Father!
My conviction comes from trust in the Lord and the holy Apostles.
I suffer from extreme fear and anxiety most of my whole life. I have a hard time understanding and accepting the Gospel in my heart and having a hard time deciding what church to go to becauseof lack of trust. I hear what ppl are saying, but dont know what/who to believe. Any advice on how to handle this type of personality and situation and what step i can take from this point??
One Church ,One Baptism.The baptism doesn’t repeat,never!
Baptism in the Orthodox Church doesn't repeat, no. But those from outside of the Church should be baptized in the Church.
You said it yourself, ONE Church, so yes, you need to be baptised because you were never baptised.
@@LadyMariaBeing baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit means you have a valid baptism. Your soul is configured and you can receive the sacraments.re-baptism is a sin the Orthodox commit on the reg because of their superiority complex and wanting inclusivity and control. They're on a power trip, is what it comes down to.
@@TruLuan Do you trust to the Ecumenical Councils? Think that the Church decided in the First Ecumenical Council to baptise all Paulinises, which previously had been accepted to the Church by chrismation only. Some of these Paulinises even became the Orthodox priests in the Church and in spite of this fact the Church decided to baptise them. So, it means that Paulinises being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit didn't have a valid baptism. The same with other heretics: Marcionists, Valentinians, Eunomians, Catholics, protestants, etc.: they had some ritual, but they don't have baptism.
@@johanjohanson7420 The issue is you have things backwards and it is the Orthodox who are the schismatics.
🙏
So I was received into the Orthodox Church (GOARCH) last December by Holy Chrismation but was not baptized. My bishop decided I didn’t need to be baptized. Should I accept this or go to a priest who will baptize into the Church? My local parish seemed that since I was “baptized” as an infant into the Methodist church, an adult baptism wasn’t needed.
I’m surprised the priest forewarned them he wouldn’t immerse fully. I’d expect they wouldn’t tell you and then do it wrong where they think you then can’t fix it
Yes
I was baptized into the Catholic Church as a teenager. I am currently a catechumen into the Orthodox Church and it’s my understanding that the Bishop will only allow for me to be Chrismated.
I am disappointed because it’s my understanding that even Papal Protestants are to be Baptized by full immersion in order to convert. I am torn. The Father at the Church has been so wonderful as have the people. Going to another Orthodox Church just to be baptized would be hurtful to what I consider my new home.
If a priest or bishop cannot receive you as is required by the canons and the teachings of the Fathers, after you are received, how will they guide you to salvation if they do not follow Orthodox teaching?
Think about your soul and eternal hell. You have to do God's way, no one else's. Just follow your conscience.
@@Maria-Ortodoxa Just stop. He's not going to burn in eternal hell. He was baptized properly.
@@TruLuan The Catholic Church is no longer a church but heresy since 1054.
@@TruLuan those who aren't baptised in the Orthodox Church by triple emersion have no guardian angel and are blind in heaven.
Baptism, which is performed “in the likeness” and “in the image” of death and resurrection in threefold immersion, is not a symbol or sign of death and resurrection, but is true death and true resurrection in Christ. In order to follow Christ, one must first die and rise again with Him and in Him. It is clear that pouring and sprinkling in no way represent death and resurrection.
A person who becomes a participant in a sprinkling “rite”, namely a rite, and not a Sacrament, loses not only its symbolic, dogmatic content, but also does not participate in any way in the co-death and co-resurrection of Christ, and refuses to accept the Lord’s sacrifice on the cross. He does not open the doors of the Church and does not enter the Building, but only mentally imitates the entrance, in reality still remaining on the street.
You have either been baptized properly or you have a problem.
And what to do in regards to that problem? I was baptised by pouring 2 years ago, i had no idea this was an issue, i dont know anymore, it's leading me to lose Faith.
@@mileschristus8861 it’s simple, get triple immersion baptism. Don’t stop until you find it. If you can’t, I’ll do it for you.
The Didache which IS the oldest known Christian Document has this to say about Christian Baptism.....And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father, and Son, and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
Apostolic Canon 50: If any bishop or priest does not perform three immersions in baptism, let him be deposed. St. Nikodemos, St. Hilarion, St. Paisios and many of the holiest men of our day all agree that you must retain the form unless there is a dire necessity.
Read it carefully:
BAPTIZE (i.e. IMMERSE) this way (i.e all three examples are of IMMERSION): Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if (IF...) you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if (IF...) you cannot (CANNOT) in cold, in warm. But if (IF...) you have not either, pour out water thrice upon... (i.e. simulate IMMERSION -- totally covering the ENTIRE BODY).
We have no excuse today. We CAN baptize properly. There is no IF in 99% of the cases. There is ignorance, indifference, laziness, confusion, or heterodox ideas... BUT NOT ANY REAL NECESSITY to depart from BAPTISM/IMMERSION.
@@Justin_Vaughan Since the Didache is the oldest document from the time of the Apostles and the idea of baptizing goes way back even further, i think i will stick with the original understanding before men started meddling with it. If it was good enough for the times of the Apostles i would say it is good enough for me. Oh yea one last thought, it seems really a good idea to fast before being baptized as is stated in the Didache.
@@OrthodoxEthos I would agree with you that today people do not have an excuse not to be fully immersed in Baptism, however times do have a way of changing and due to what is needed at that time pouring may be more realistic due to circumstances. We are living in very bad times and it is going to get worse before it gets better . Anyway if possible immerse. But i have to say i really appreciate the
idea of fasting before baptism as seems to have been required in the past.
The book “On the Reception of the Heterodox” addresses the Didache and all of these objections. Baptism by any means other than three full immersions in the name of the Holy Trinity is absolutely forbidden except for cases of emergency where a person is dying and immersion in water is impossible. This was always how the Didache was understood. The book “On the Reception of the Heterodox” demonstrates that this is how the saints, Fathers and canons interpret this as well.
انتم الذين بالمسيح اعتمدتم المسيح لبستم هاليلويا
What should one do, our priest in our Orthodox perish told that he didnt immerse when my son was baptized.
Father, I am baptised and chrismated into the Orthodox Church by affusion as a child. What would you say to me and the millions of Orthodox people who are baptised this way, that my baptism is invalid and that I need to be “baptised correctly”?
If you are baptized in the Orthodox Church by immersion (triple) then that is correct and what Fr. Peter is advocating for...
@@LadyMaria sorry, I meant affusion. What, is that incorrect?
@@asentseto It's only supposed to be done in emergency and thrice. But it will suffice since it's in the Orthodox Church.
I insisted.. I said i can do anything even though it was cold in the church (November 24th in Slovenia in Serbian Orthodox church).
But they then pured a water (cuz there are turist coming into the Church, very cold, no warm water..) . I couldn't do anything.. Do i need maybe corrective baptism?
I get single immersion but why triple immersion?
We die, are buried and rise again with Christ. Also, the Holy Trinity. In a single immersion, one is baptized into Christ's death only, and not into the Holy Trinity either.
Fr Peter, on live-chat today I asked your opinion on Elphidophoros' officiation of baptism of gay couples' 2 babies and whether this was in line with Orthodox doctrines or was a plasphemy. Are you avoiding my question because you are serving Orthodoxy in the jurisdiction of Elphidophoros or was it simply my bad luck my question was missed during the broadcast?
Missed
I am not in the EP
Never have been
Archbishop Elpidophoros will answer for the handing to the Wolf of Souls those Children he Baptised. If not now then before God.
Pray fervently that those children come to know the Fullness of the Faith they were Given.
@@acekoala457 it is frustrating to see all the clergy silently watching the unacceptable acts initiated by EP..
@@pah9730 Fr Peter thanks for the clarification! EP was supposed to be a role model for all Orthodox believers instead of acting radically against our Orthodox doctrine..
@@Yozefff
Not all. The OCA released a Statement signed by her Hierarchs condemning the Act. The Greek Church in Greece has stated that it was wrong. And the Russians have bigger concerns with the EP at the moment.
Is the rubbing of someone from head to toe before being immersed in the water a part of the Apostolic tradition or is it an innovation?
I am not talking about the actual seal of the Holy Spirit.
It's part of the Greek tradition.
Father, what should I do where I was Chrismated into Orthodoxy but just now found out that my Protestant/Evangelical "baptism" that occured when I was a kid is invalid? Wasnt even Triple Immersion just a single immersion in a hot tub.
I was Chrismated around 2021
consider this - Baptism should not be denied from anyone who has not received a baptism.
the water temp is crucial it must be between 75-80 degrees ...you should not be held under for more that 3 seconds and then left to dry off naturally without towel drying
While all said is correct I am curious how triple immersion is done for adults? As a Serbian and member of Serbian Orthodox Church I was (we all are more or less) baptized as a baby when it is easy to perform triple immersion but there simply are no proper opportunities or facilities to do that for anyone 5yr old and up.
People are immersed in a walk in font. That's what I was baptized in. Others are baptized in horse troughs which are not expensive. It's not that hard to triple immerse adults. One doesn't need a permanent facility. It's just usually laziness on the part of the baptizer or whoever made that decision.
@LadyMaria thank you. Walk in font is not a thing in Serbia and many other Eastern Orthodox Churches. Neither are horse troughs while it is possible to get one or something of similar shape and size. It could be "laziness" but I doubt anything is done without blessing from a Bishop or a Patriarch, though definitely there probaly are priests doing things out of laziness indeed.
I have a wue for anyone who is orthodox that can answer, I understand full immersion ofc and I completely agree but why is it triple immersion? Even (from what I have heard of) John, did he not just immersion those he baptized once?
If you are confused by the threefoldness, then I agree with you that during Baptism the Holy Trinity was revealed in a different way: the Father, through a voice from heaven, testifying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; The Holy Spirit in the form of a snow-white dove descended on the head of Jesus Christ.
With three immersions and emersions both faith in the Holy Trinity is clearly affirmed and the three days’ death and burial and resurrection of the Savior are at the same time symbolized. Thence it consequently follows that our baptism comprises the two foremost dogmas of our expression of the orthodox faith - that of the theology of the vivifying Trinity, and that of the incarnate economy of the God Logos.
@@johanjohanson7420 That makes sense, I've been wondering for a while now but couldn't find the answer anywhere. Thank you.
We all should be careful that this can create some conclusions that may be incorrect such as "if you are not triple immersed (but poured over head) during Holy Sacrament of Baptism you will be going to hell". Maybe Father Peter can clarify on this as I am just an unworthy servant of God. God bless!
I would have thought it was important until I’ve met up with alot of converts who were. It didn’t seem to reflect the Holy Spirit in them
Perhaps you are being judgmental with them.
I dont even care anymore. Christians across the world has made the gospels more frustrating and complicated than they ever had to be.
heretics made it complicated
Go to the roots then, read the history, and you will end up here, at the doors of the Orthodox Church.
This is the fruit of protestantism. This is what happens when you break away from the Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. The Roman Catholic Church.
@@TruLuanExcept the Roman church broke with the rest of the Church and then made a new communion of churches.. Original rebellion begat rebellion, that is how Protestantism was born..
There was never a martian , an old testament baptism , never
💝☦️🇷🇸🇷🇺💯✅
So all that havent been baptised with tripple immersion are actually not baptised? We are all going to hell?
YES
This is what happens when we become legalistic. No one knows who is going to hell or not, it is up to God and His Mercy. If He is judging us by were we 100% immersed or only 87%, I am afraid our Orthodox faith is not truly correct.
We don't know who will or won't go to hell (Gehenna). But no it isn't.
@@buzzkillington1602The Orthodox Faith itself is 100% correct.
@LadyMaria maybe I wasn't clear as English is not my primary language. I was trying to point out to confusion about full immersion and what it means and how people tend to draw conclusions like "if your elbow wasn't fully immersed you are going to hell". That's what my "incorrect" part is referring to as saying or thinking something like that is very dangerous. Btw in Serbian for baptism we use word "krstenje" which means "washing away (sins)" not immersion as is in greek.
Where does it say in the Bible that three dunks are necessary? Tradition is nice but biblical support is far more important. As a disciple who was baptized with a full immersion in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who declared Jesus as Lord, I am asking out of love and genuine interest. God bless.
:o
The Bible is itself a part of Holy Tradition. The doctrine of the Trinity itself is not explicitly laid out in the Bible either, neither are many other things.
Apostles did so, I don't know exactly where is it but I know that they did so (including baptism of disciples of John the forerunner by three times immersion)
Βαπτίζω στα ελληνικά, τα οποία είναι η γλώσσα στην οποία γράφτηκε η Καινή Διαθήκη, σημαίνει βουτάω,βυθίζω στο νερό. Οπότε μην αναρρωτιόμαστε που το λέει στην Αγία Γραφή. Ο ίδιος ο Ιησούς το είπε.
Baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. He didn't say wet them,He said baptize them.
@@paisios2541 Well put! I am surprised how many protestants seem to think that the bible somehow came down on a golden platter
Where in scripture is triple immersion baptism?
Baptising in the Name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Baptize = immersion. That is what the word means.
One immersion with every Name.
The practice of the Church from the beginning and witnessed to in many canons and fathers.
@@OrthodoxEthos Father, I was "baptized" when I was maybe 10 years old by getting sprinkled or poured, don't remember exactly. Would it be correct of me to ask a priest to *properly* baptize me now, 24 years later? Thank you!
@@OrthodoxEthosThank you for your explanation I myself who have never been baptized would like to know your thoughts on self baptism. The Bible doesn’t speak about it but I’m curious to know your thoughts. I personally will never call another man father besides The Lord so I address you as another spiritual being having a human experience in this physical realm. Also, Who has the proper authority to perform baptisms when our Lord Jesus says that their is no one that is good but the one true God?
@@Yaruandromedano1998 You refute yourself in your own question, You imply that no one has the authority to perform baptism yet Christ himself was Baptized by John the Baptist as were many others.
@@JW-oe1lf it’s not refuting it’s simply stating redundantly because God himself is taking his time on showing me the truth as I study his word more and more. Which is why I question whether or not self baptism is as affective as having someone else do it for you. Yes you have some reason we all know John baptized Jesus , it still doesn’t change what Jesus said later on though. Had he been baptized or not he still would be the son of God .
No. John baptized with water. God baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
Both, and.
@@OrthodoxEthos
Water baptism is a ceremony. Why three times? Oneness Pentecostals dunk a person until they come up speaking in tongues. I'd speak in tongues to stop drowning but thank God I'm Not a Pentecostal. Tongues is evidence of a gift. The Initial evidence of the Holy Spirit is being able to say Jesus is Lord. 1st Corinthians 12:3
I received the Fruit of the Holy Spirit when I said a sinners prayer. I grew up in the Catholic Church but the Our Father is Not prayed in the name of the Lord Jesus. When I prayed in the name of Jesus Christ, I was saved. When the elders laid their hands on me I received the gift of tongues. I have been used to prophecy but I am not a prophet. It does not happen often.
1st Corinthians 14:1 Pursue Love (Galatians 5:22,23) and desire spiritual gifts (1st Corinthians 12-14) especially that you might prophecy.
May God's will be done in the name of His Son Jesus our Anointed Lord and King, amen.
@@ElohimistsYou think you received the Holy Spirit when you recited some prayer. That is prelest.
The mode for receiving the Holy Spirit, after the day of Pentecost, has always been triple immersion baptism. To be sealed with Him is in anointing.
Pentecostal "Tongues" are a natural thing that happens when the brain is overstimulated emotionally. People get this in a myriad of situations, not all religious.
Usually "prophesy" is prelest too.
@@LadyMaria
What you are teaching is a Oneness Pentecostal doctrine. Tongues is evidence of a gift. There are many gifts that the Holy Spirit has to give.
The Initial evidence of The Holy Spirit is being able to say Jesus is Lord.
1st Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed,” and no one is able to say, “Jesus is Lord,” if not in the Holy Spirit
29-31
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
And I show to you now a more surpassing way.
@@Elohimists I'm not teaching anything, I'm telling you the truth. Pentecostalism is a sect made on high emotion.
The Orthodox Church has all the gifts and always has. No fakery.
If you have been chrismated then your baptism has been accepted, so I do not think it should be redone. Strictly speaking, that means non-triple-immersed baptisms have been considered valid, but they are strongly not preferred, as evidenced by the history of the Church. It is a shame that churches have resorted to sprinkling out of convenience when it should really be a last resort. It should absolutely be required that churches perform full triple immersion except for circumstances where it would literally be impossible, but I cannot imagine what those circumstances would be.
There is no baptism outside of the Orthodox Church.
But chrismation is another Mystery. There are two Mysteries taking place, the Holy Baptism and the Chrismation. They are two totally different things. How can Chrismation replace baptism?
"...considered valid"... according to who and on what basis?
And what is "valid" in Orthodoxy. It can only refer to the form and never to the MYSTERY, which does not exist apart from, outside of, THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH, WHICH IS TO SAY THE EUCHARIST/EUCHARISTIC SYNAXIS.
If you can accept heterodox Baptism, why not also accept their chrismation and everything? We are not ecumenist.
Heterodox aren’t baptized into the Church. How can such baptisms be considered valid?
Your original argument is something which I strictly agree with. When a priest or bishop only chrismates, they accept the baptism which that person has received outside of the one true Church. But we draw different conclusions. My conclusion which I draw is that when they do this, they are blessing a pagan pollution of the soul which absolutely should have been rectified with the one true baptism. The Church Fathers are clear since the apostolic canons, non Orthodox baptisms are invalid and pagan.
If you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit then you in fact have a valid baptism. Re-baptism is a sin and is done on the reg by the condescending, schismatic Orthodox. I love you guys but seriously stop doing this. Its nonsense.
It is not enough to be immersed in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to born again. One must have it inside of the Church. Paulinists, marcionists, valentinians, etc all of them had been immersed in the name of the Trinity, but the Church decided to reject their "baptism" and baptise them as unbaptized, since heretics were immersed outside of the Church.
@@johanjohanson7420 This is un-biblical teaching. By your logic Jesus himself had an invalid baptism.
@@TruLuan Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Church, that's why your words seem as a game of the mind or sophistry, which does not give anything to the search for truth. Korah, Dathan and Abiron, who served the priest Aaron, as soon as they dared to rebel against him and consider themselves equal to the commanding priest, immediately, being swallowed up and devoured by the opening earth, received punishment for their sacrilegious insolence. When anybody tries to baptise outside of the Church, he will receive the same as Korah, Dathan and Abiron. This is biblical teaching.
@@johanjohanson7420 My comment seems fallacious to you because you do not understand Christs very own teaching on baptism and you also do not understand the concept of original sin and how baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit re-configures your soul for the sacraments and removes that original sin. Even some Protestants have valid baptisms. A proper baptism and accepting the teachings of the Apostles Creed is what makes one a Christian, whether you are getting the fulness of the faith is another story. This is why we have the Catholic Church, founded by Christ who built her on Peter as the Rock. You should read scriptures in context as you will start to see how the filioque is biblical, understand Gods grace, and God's loving qualities which the Orthodox have a hard time grasping due to their superiority complex. You should also look up what sophistry and the context of my last comment. The ability to "think before you speak" (in this case type) is a virtue. God Bless.
@@johanjohanson7420 The Didache clearly states a preference for use of “living” and “cold” water (water that is flowing - e.g., river) but it says nothing about immersion. As a matter of fact, the Didache only mentions the pouring of water explicitly. In addition, when we examine Sacred Scripture, we find that there is not one description of the means of Baptism to be found in the Bible. It is only in sacred art that we find depictions of full immersion and that has led many to read into instructions, like those found in the Didache, what they have seen in imagery. That said, even if the Didache did provide specific instructions, it would still not be a magisterial document that had any weight to establish a normative means of conferring a sacrament in the Church that Christ established with Peter at its head. The same can be said of any of the writings of the Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr or ecclesial writers like Tertulian.
So let us look at what the Church actually teaches. The Catechism of the Council of Trent states that Baptism may be administered in three ways - by immersion, infusion, or aspersion - and all are considered valid. The Catechism of the Catholic Church confirms that the essential rite of Baptism consists of immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on the head while invoking the Most Holy Trinity. The Catechism does tell us that, “Baptism is performed in the most expressive way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head” (CCC 1239). Therefore, the Catechism (a Magisterial document), while identifying immersion as “the most expressive way”, says nothing about it being normative.
As for the Baptismal formula, clearly the instructions given by Christ himself are our best guide. The Catholic Church follows this and so do some Protestants.
i believe on full immersion on adults but not on infants. Lot's of them died in Russia when they were doing this.
We have difficultly believing you. Forgive us.
@@OrthodoxEthos i really don't understand why we should endanger infants that have no clue that they are getting baptized. Don't we tempt God by doing this?
Source?
@@LadyMaria Of what?
@@ThePerfectchris The last sentence in your first comment..
You guys in the West really need to speak less and read more. In Orthodoxy there are NO opinions.
When you read more you become Catholic.
@@TruLuan if you watch Francis and the modern popes. You find out the papacy was a lie all along.
@@TruLuanUsually they become Orthodox.
Free baptisms are any baptism as total paganism.Nobody's phone Matthew 28 missed dispensation.That was totally Jewish.I love some things you're saying but if this is totally made up this is totally made of ritual
What are you trying to say? There's too many autocorrect mistakes.
Nobody should "insist" anything from a priest. Going to church isn't like going to a fast food restaurant where you pick from a menu. No layman has the right to tell a priest that he is wrong for not doing triple immersion. You should show respect to the clergy. Further, most adults or children bigger than infants around the world have been accepted into Orthodoxy via sprinkling or pouring as most churches simply don't have the facilities to do full baptisms.
Really? Where is the line? When he tells you to accept homosexuality, do nothing? This is not what the Fathers teach at all. But why have a line there and not on the most basic, foundational Mystery of Initiation -- the foundation of your spiritual life?
@@OrthodoxEthos Show me the correlation between priests that pour and those that "accept homosexuality" in the Orthodox church? Give me an example.
Because I know for certain that Greek Archbishop Elpidophoros did triple immersion of the children of the gay couple that created a scandal back in September 2022.
@@OrthodoxEthos father, i have sadly been Baptised within The Orthodox Church through pouring of water over my head, does this invalidate my Baptism, or is it perhaps unideal, but still valid? God bless, thanks in advance for you answer.
The Holy Mystery of Baptism has no comparison with what you're choosing for lunch that day. Clergy should be shown respect and reverence, but it's the responsibility of every Orthodox person -- clergy or laity -- to speak out, discerningly, when the teachings of the Church are being transgressed. St. John Chrysostom himself instructs us that "we must not mind insulting men, if by respecting them we offend God."
@@Justin_Vaughan You have no comparison with St. John Chrysostom either, Justin.
A priest that's been serving for decades all of a sudden has people from the church of cyberdoxy telling him how to do a sacrament?
No.
Jesus wasn’t triple immersed though… was He?
“In the name of the Father (splash), You (splash) and that Bird flying overhead (splash)”. 😅
Baptism, as I was taught at least, represents death. YOU DON’T DIE THRICE!
We receive what has been passed down.
From the beginning, triple immersion.
It is that simple. Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
your mistake is in thinking that baptism "represents" something, as opposed to being the mechanism by which something actually happens. if it was symbolic, then sure, triple dunking Christ would be strange. baptism is not a mere symbol, though. symbols don't cure leprosy.
Baptism has always been thrice immersion because we die with Christ, are buried with Him and rise again anew with Him. It isn't just death, it's Resurrection too.
Baptism is not merely symbolic but has a spiritual element to it, bringing us into communion with the Church (Orthodox), and infusing us with God's grace. It is a Holy Mystery.
@@bruhbbawallace
Baptism is Symbolic, we have just lost in our culture that "Symbol" means "Both Representative and Reality".
It does Represent the 3 Day Burial of Christ and it is also our Participation in that 3 Day Burial.
@@LadyMaria Yes, and also we have our former sins forgiven in holy baptism.
This whole comment section is lost. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit means accepting all truth you’re being told. it has nothing to do with Roman bathing. The water means purification. Putting it on your temple means., your mind. All you are supposed to do is purify your mind with absolute truth…. You could rub tons of water all over your head all day self righteous church on the planet.. still have not accepted the Holy Spirit, God’s spirit, it Hass to absolutely tell the truth. He is not 3. He is 1 if you except this fact you can move on to being possible born again. But you have to shed the old version of what you thought. That is baptism. Not this satanic Mariam grave robbing ritual. ✌️. Invite anyone to immerse in this truth. 🙏
That's modern low church Protestant ideas, but nothing the actual Church ever taught in 2,000 years. If anyone followed your ideas, he will be lead away from God.
Your strawman are not very good.
We have never received such a strange teaching in 2000 years.
@@pah9730 ✌️⚔️❤️. That’s what happens when you can rebuild the truth in one day… we are in that day. Zachariah will explain more about how yeshua comes back.. We have an upside down world right now is because we have Internet researching people that must find the truth… so God send it to them. And then there’s tv people that are lied to the pit. The tv is the flying scroll. The seven eyes in Zachariah are actually., God just showing you a multifaceted situation on the stone. Your tablet.. ☝️
God is three persons of one essence, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.