I was married to a vindictive narcissist for 36 years. It took me a long time to realize what he was, I just knew how miserable I was. I’ve been divorced for 2 years and I feel released from a prison.
I don't know how their relationships last...I had one that kept bringing up something small that happened 10 years ago and still punishing me for it. Its been months I haven't seen him... since February 2022
@@blackwellbrooklyn6142 If he were nice, I'm sure she would still be married. There are people that take their marriage vows seriously and if there are children involved, it changes things.
exactly! I think they are ALL everything just at different times just depends on what their life is like, their job, their personal WANTS, etc. they do WHATEVER they need to do to get what they want. period. the overt is also covert at times, the covert is also overt at times, the mac is also vindictive etc. etc. whatever tactic that suits them at any given time. not all of them care about fancy clothes and cars etc.(grandiose materially) some like to lay low in simple housing and autos and clothing and jewelry while thinking they are grandiose mentally (know more about everything than everyone else). mine thinks she knows more than God himself but lives in a small mobile home in a park and has a very old car. she went out and bought a 'wedding' ring after my dad died. why? they do all kinds of things that make no sense to the normal person. she acquired a lot of wealth when my father died which instantly turned her into a monster (or did it just allow her to let the beast within loose because NOW she has all that POWER?) almost right before my eyes she went from bad (all my life) to the worse I've ever seen. it was horrible she was tired of waiting so she actually pulled his plug so he would die! the love of money will make a psychopath so much worse. RUN!! and don't look back!
Some examples of vindictiveness include witholding time, resources, patience, refusal to help, the feeling that they are entitled to railroad the rights of others, disregard for family members feelings and selfishness.
Krissi Berry sound like a narcissist wrote this. Read that five times and if you can't understand narc. Okay. Never debate or attempt to with a narcissist...
Wow. It sounds as if you are one of my brothers or sister. The one that thinks as I do knows how I feel. My brothers are daft and my mother is busy deystroying them and their families. Been there and done that cant do it anymore, ever again.
Oh, fuck. Crude as it is, this sounds like me. I'll admit it, I'm so emotionally distant from my family that they're like strangers to me, and I don't feel inclined to be there for them at all. Still, I don't like being hated, so I'll stick by to stave that off. What a strange mental disorder; I knew I was self-centered, but I never realized what a problem it is.
If I return to the level of no more weapons involved, then either as the victor, or as one vengeful old man. No offence, but soft cases are NOT the norm!
Husband of 16 years is a vindictive narcissist. It started out slowly. Love bombed into marriage. First I called him out, stood my ground, but he just never quit. I started "picking my battles". Mistake, he interpreted this as acquiescence. I started traveling more and more for my work to get away from him. I had no idea, what he was. Thought it was just low self esteem. He hated my success. Can't for the life of me figure out why he would have latched on to me. I'm usually strong and independent. Finally, I started googling some of his behavior and it all fell into place. I was dealing with a covert/vindictive narcissist. Gave him an ultimatum to get help. You can imagine how well that was received. He started in on a 9 month silent treatment and little petty acts of punishment. All the while, I was planning my escape. I'm gone now, but still have to face the ordeal of a divorce from this nasty petty vindictive little person. Healing and working up a head steam. Thanks for these clear videos. Part of my recovery process.
good for you. i agree with you. they are envious of our success but they won’t do anything to improve themselves. they seem like they are doing things on purpose to provoke a reaction that is not our normal behavior then play victim.
Taking down a strong, confident target is far more appealing to the Narc. You represent all they are not. Your qualities trigger the NPD behavior as it reflects their insufficiencies. The GET OFF on emotional response. Twisted ...
@@Georgia1981 Well put,my ex narc used to say "I know you love your job and I am going to make you lose it" and also "IF I LET YOU study for your midwifery you will think that you are better than me!"
Signs: (watch vid for proper context) 1 Dominance (control) 2 Power (they should not have it!) 3 Manipulation (they’re not good at it) 4 Revenge (d/t criticism insult advice) 5 Sloppy (due to: rage) 6 Rumination (plot is gradual d/t intolerable insult) 7 Revenge plot (a time of time invested to this end regardless of the outcome) 8 Emotional deregulation (will get back at you) 9 Victimhood (they believe they are setting things right - entitlement) 10 Attempts ++++ (b/c they don’t know when to walk away, or let it be) Excellent vid!
O, sounds like my last ex, who sent flying monkeys, including former f--k buddies, to try finding out what I was up to, and even trying to catfish me on Facebook!
@@brusselsprout5851 Yes it is Judy, it's become quite interesting now .. dangerous potentially when we let them get too close, but interesting. They don't realise we're actually watching them watch us hahaha :)
Guilty on 8/10 accounts. I have no idea what to do with criticism... It confuses me, because I make every attempt to do things right such that I don't have to face my flaws - delicate ego here - and feel as if all that effort was pointless. It's very goddamn frustrating. Differentiating between an insult and "fair" criticism is difficult too... there seems to be a continuum in the matter, and interpreting where the line is? A practice in learned helplessness. Criticisms on my attitude or personality are a no-go, so my suggestion? Pretend I have a (peripheral) mental illness and help me treat it. Insults, in my opinion, are unforgivable. That's it... you're less than human to me and deserve endless retaliation. I've always had the saying, "don't poke the bear if you don't want to get mauled." Getting someone to just fuck off is never good enough... I want to pusue and eliminate. An apology and subservience goes a long way though. Yes, I know this is a highly unreasonable way of thinking, and I fear that it may turn into something beyond stewing in bitterness for weeks on end with age and experience. Still, I don't feel inclined to want to change it, but to develop it and exact retribution on everyone who ever insulted me or criticised my attitude. (Help, I'm actually a crazy person! XD)
Oh man the Revenge. Now it’s on stage 10 because they can’t get over the fact that I’m not gonna give a reaction even if they literally stand in front of me
Everyone has traits of narcissism. With all the people judging others of personality disorders it's getting a bit redundant. No one has a perfect personality. It seem's as though everyone is a narc except for the individual judging others with traits of narcissism. Are there more people with personality disorders in general population or not? Would a narcissistic person watch videos on narcissism? I'm confused.
I lived with a vindictive narcissist. Document the pattern to allow you to understand the vindictive behavior. For example, accidentally breaking your belongings, staged accidents, staged arguments, passive aggressive behavior, intentionally wreaking your car, hiding your items and later returning (or not). Eventually, you and others recognize the vindictive pattern. Can you talk about the social ineffectiveness (i.e., jobs; working) of the vindictive narcissist? The vindictive narcissist I know, never learn from mistakes. They repeat the same maladaptive behavioral loop with same self-sabotaging social outcome.
Oh by the way you can't take the car tomorrow for work I need it! Telling me he went to my new job and told everybody who I am! Accidentally breaking some of my favorite dishes!
Yes OMG everyday i steal her phone or her sim card e.t.c one morning i can Recall waking up to my land lady screaming at me about her phone. She took my laptop and hurled it at My head like she was playing disc golf.( i later found our she could’ve went pro 10 years ago) she was going for one of my technic turntable’s i grabbed her and pushed her out of my studio. She preceded to call me every name in the book then told me she was calling the cops and telling them i hit her. As she is standing on front porch calling them. I ask her if i stole your phone how are you calling the cops.😆 she did not think that was funny went over to her side of the double to wait for them(never live next door to your landlady).When they showed up she was pretty rude to them and after talking to me they had a prettu good grasp of the situation. I can’t tell you how many more times this scenario has happened because I’m still in the process of leaving this crazy 2 year stint in this emotional trap house of horrors. At least another 50 to 60 times snd varying degrees of severity. She was always shooting her nose off to spite her face as they say. Truly awful behavior non stop accusations and near constant fear of someone is out to get them usually a mutual aquatints. Their revenge fantasy’s are often like a cartoon like a road runner cartoon and of course she was always the road runner lol. Anyways the good doctor nails it again solid stuff here.
omg I'm dealing with one right now and I swear I think I'm losing my mind at times because I know it is him taking my belongings because one minute they are there and the next they are not. Now can you be a vindictive narcissist as well as a covert narcissist?
@@kerryhernandez647 get yourself some sparkles put them around some of your things on purpose like a journal... sparkles never lie they'll be all over his face! It works try to get white sparkles if possible you'll know whether or not he touched your things don't confront him at first let it allow it to happen a few times! Good luck and you're not crazy!
There is no other youtuber I can trust as it comes to narcissism ... I can see they lack credibility, objectivity and see this construct in a hollywood-dramatic way. I’m glad you exist, thank you!
Yes, I also agree with the said comment! Dr Grande is the only person I tend to listen to. He has such a way of verbalizing the topic without making it sound cliche or boring.
Yup definitely, he slammed my head into the floor over words. He was a little bit drunk but that's no excuse. I had brain damage, saw white spots couldn't move my neck for 3 days. Scary as hell, I thought I knew him and never saw it coming.
@@victoriaanne8305 Yes I couldn't agree more with you on that statement. Feminist movement did start because of the way women and children were treated so badly. Men don't protect us! It's better to be alone. When I'm alone is when I feel safe and secure. Feminism is the right to be human.
Wow... I remember my ex saying he would damage someone’s stuff because he felt insulted. This was my life. Now alone but at peace.... smiling more and feeling like the world just opened it’s doors to me. Thank you doctor. 😊
My H is destroying my stuff daily. Cutting the seams on all my clothes, putting holes in every towel (they are his too…?) stealing stuff and returning it to another spot. Denying true facts…gaslighting. I totally called him out on all of this and said “if you are the one destroying all my stuff, you have serious mental issues and you really should stop.” He didn’t so now I just laugh and buy new stuff. It’s his money.
@@chakkakon Tit for tat won't last long. You could be driving along and odd noises up front quickly turn into your front wheel outrunning the rest of the car? Now the cars not a TOTAL loss and you " live " through this possible homicide event..... YEAH!! Now you only need to make sure ALL those lugnuts are ALL THE WAY TIGHT each time you drive..... take your time, just get the wrench out and give them ALL a tug. Yep just tug each lug. Or!! Leave the NUT.🤭
Yes, the rumination. I could literally see my husband doing this. Often in the garden, quietly going about his work of planting etc. I would see him busy and quiet, thinking, thinking, thinking - and later on find things that he deliberately damaged - my things - over and over and over again, and they were obviously damaged by someone, but I would never ever actually see him do the damage - it was all done quietly and secretly and scarily. But no one else could have done it and I was always shocked to see what he was willing to do and when I opened the washing machine one day - there he had broken/busted the strong plastic agitater, like pieces were cut out of it in shapes, and that was the final straw for me along with the bad temper to me in endless roundabout argumentative stressful conversations. It was like he was planning all the time what to do to me through my things.
And as a footnote even though she lives in this town I would never confront her about these things because she would actually find satisfaction in knowing that even now I am still being hurt by things she did, since in the end I had to go "no contact." Not to mention she would Gaslight me and probably share with her flying monkeys what a ridiculous and awful thing I had accused her of. In other words, I'd only be getting in line for more abuse and I would not get the confirmation that would provide closure. But gradually I will find my own closure, because it's like cleaning out an abscess. Someday it will be fully clean and will scar over nicely.
Why would he damage your things? My husband does after argument or if I ignore him. He damaged most of my property in one day because I slept separately as I found out he is still having an affair.. I left he finished the affair but when we argue, I find my things damaged!! Behind my back or missing
that's exactly what I am dealing with now in terms of a vindictive narcissist whom I am in a lease with. while for the most part, I can ignore her behavior unless it threatens my safety or health. When she, out of spite, started to tamper with my property and just noticed this morning some of my belongings gone, that's where I draw the line. I know I will probably be sorry when I threaten to haul her in court legally for messing with my stuff, that the likely reaction will be more spite/revenge to point I will need to move and pay additional rent. But I also know there is a good chance she will escalate her spite anyway and may try and get away with alot more damage/theft. As Doc said, no productive way to deal with them unfortunately. One thing I noticed with her is her life is driven by fear, any threat that can cost her money gets her attention even if brief reprieve, and she does not have very good street smarts and that's the card I've learned to play.
@@lifeunleashed I've experienced the same type behavior. What I did was to rent a storage space only in my name and then put my things in there to get them out of her reach until the lease expired. Then when I am no longer on the hook for the lease, end it. At least that way my things quit disappearing. Until that time, my things, especially things that meant something to me would just disappear.
I’m the scapegoat in my family and I have long suspected the flying monkeys of the ringleader narcs are afraid of them. I’m the only one in the family who has really had the courage and strength to stand up to them. Recently their abuse put me in the ER with systolic blood pressure around 200. I was in a hypertensive crisis and in serious trouble. In the process of ending contact with all of them permanently. It has become a matter of life & death. Good video, Dr. Grande.
FiFi - My health is suffering, too. I'm planning legal action and paralyzed with fear. The suffering is UNBEARABLE. I HAVE to go to court to expose their slander before the end of 2019. I only care about my 3 grandchildren. 4 yrs. now, cut of from me. We had a DEEP, DEEP bond of love.
Martha O'Kelley, I am so sorry to hear that. I hope it all works out for you and your grandchildren. They sure will make us sick. Please take care of yourself. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I'm so sorry that you've been going through this. Yes, well done for going through the process of ending contact with them permanently. Yes, it really is a matter of life and death for some isn't it, and I'm sorry it is that way for you. God bless and keep you safe, stay close to Him
I have learnd so much about narcissism from you, and it have really turnde my life around. Now I understand why I suffered so badly during my childhood and still are. My father was malignant and my mother covert. I can’t change the past but it helps to understand and I can finally (at age 49) strart my healing process. All my thanks to you❣️
Im starting to heal at 80 years of age. What a relief, i plan to live another 120 years. Here is the interesting thing. I am a boss, always been a boss but raged against by every lover, husband, except for one. As a matter of fact, I have a STEM brain. But always open to listen to a different opinion. I am as perfect as I can be according to my raging mother. I am really tired of it all.
My parents are too and dad is -Perfectionist and I tore stuff ,and mother is a dark empathetic kind of person likely BPd/CPSDT from childhood as I heard it. I was 16 when I got pregnant and she made me go to counseling. However , the counselor Thought i was ok and asked her to remain in counseling. I asked her just last yr how it went (I’m 56 and she’s 84). Hee response was “ I stayed for 6 months and didn’t want to be on medication so I quit. Lol I laughed loud and reminded her about all the Greek alcohol she drank with her diet dr peppers I mean darn! That generation sucked as parents.
Finally after 56 years with narc parents, who never liked me, I made the call and said I can’t visit anymore. She went off the rails,but when I said I was afraid my father would kill me, crickets. Bye bye f@#$& narc trauma, I survived and am an amazing person now. Jesus has saved me!
Yeah, the book of Jude and i thinn 2 Peter 3; or is it 1 Peter 3,speaks on similar people withinthe church that do these very things. They "worm" their way into churches and in other places "prey on women." Its terrible but, like many times,the Bible makes aware and I'm grateful it does.
Spot on. I'm in Divorce proceedings, and all of these traits I have found to be true in my soon to be ex husband. I saw them during our marriage, and now in our divorce journey. I'm relying more and more on my attorney to navigate the situation. There's no reasoning with a vindictive narcissist. Thanks for your content!
Have been married to narcissist for 30 yrs. Tried to figure out what was wrong with him. Had luck one day listening to you. Bingo, the light went on. That's him. So glad I flnally knew whsy I was fighting. Thank you for all your knowledge. I keep in touch with you each day. I am selling house and getting away. I don't talk to him, just stay in my room mostly. No contact...important.
I used to be friends with this one woman. I started to recognize the gas lighting. She would complain about having to drop out of school and quit her job because she didn't have childcare and couldn't afford a sitter. I felt sympathy for her and offered to watch her children so she wouldn't have to quit trying to change her life for the better. Or so I thought. One morning she showed up at 7am and I was surprised, an hour earlier than usual. I asked her why she was so early and she said with a straight face "I always come at this time". Other times she would claim she was working late at the police station because there were so many accidents on those days. I had called the office and they were closed. I called the next day to inquire about extended hours and they said they don't stay past closing. I was watching her kids up to 13 hours a day, 8 to 10 days in a row for 10$ a day. She would come home from school and work and not even come to get her kids. I took her baby for a walk and saw she was home and thought oh she's coming any minute.... Not so. Ignored calls, etc. I can go on. There's plenty more to her. When I tried to talk to her about these issues, she suddenly turned on me, and one by one our friends started hating me. She has even gone after my children, one of them being special needs. She's tried to have me evicted, and has gone as far as filing false claims to children's aid society. Her flying monkeys utter threats, and participate in a huge smear campaign against me. For three years my family has been subjected to this. Still to this day. Her and her cohorts against me and my children. Making life at our home unbearable. Vandalism, harassment, death threats, assault threats, etc. Now I want to take things to a physical level. Yet I'm not a narc. I'm an abuse survivor. I'm defensive of myself and my family.
This video is spot-on. I was married to a narcissist who is also paranoid to the nth degree. A nasty combination! We have been divorced for 8 years and the scorched-earth policy of hers continues unabated. She is quite prepared to destroy herself in order to hurt me.
The most helpful presentation on the vindictive narcissist I've seen to date. They will pursue vindication regardless of self destruction. It's pitiful to experience. Thank you so much Dr Grande for an EXCELLENT presentation, I look forward to your future work.
"They are careful about seeking revenge against superiors" (3:23). This is because they know that this might jeopardize their ability to keep their charade against others going.
SO glad to figure out why I was miserable for YEARS in my last job. I always did my best to look good for the practice and take great care of my patients. But my boss would be all friendly, then write me up for everything, all vindictive and small. She micromanaged and undermined and gaslighted me and tried to isolate me from other professionals... until I thought I was horrible at my job... I stopped trying to talk with her... there was NO talking it out... I was walking around terrified, because she was in a power position and all her superiors were completely unaware of this malicious side of her and would never believe my word over hers. (Employees of course equally terrified and could not talk.) HR was genuinely shocked at some of the things I finally told them when I quit, and asked why I hadn't said anything before. Really?? One final tempest in a teapot and I finally quit. Best decision of my life, and my colleagues and a ton of my patients have bombarded the office with questions about where I went and how they can contact me. That has really touched me... and I hope it burns her, too. Happy old me is back!
Best authority on different kinds of narcissism I’ve heard on RUclips. I always knew when my ex narc would be prowling for new supply... right after I stood up to him.
A great deal of the stress of being, or having been, in the sphere of a narcissist is their thoroughly baffling motivations and actions. These people truly think in a completely different way. There’s such a great need for credible information on this topic. Please consider providing more narcissism videos.
Fantastic analysis. It is too simple to say someone is narcissistic there are too many types and as you say these things are on a continuum and also swing back and forth between covert and overt. I also like the clarity given between machiavellianism and narcissism. The devil is in the detail and that is why I always learn something from your videos and that is why I try and watch as many as I can.
My mother is a diagnosed narc, a high level one. She's always been very vengeful. Dad, also a narc, is too but she is much worse. She beat me up mentally and physically when I was in high school and I escaped..went to school and told a teacher. She took action. I'd taken a Diaries course and they already saw abuse in my diary entries. I was taken out of our home for my safety and lived elsewhere until college. I was thriving in college which really bothered my mom. She blamed me endlessly for her being busted for abuse (the authorities knew better) so in my Sophomore year she made dad stop paying for my school. I was left homeless and couldn't afford school anymore (it was an expensive private college). She laughed and told me I wasn't welcome home because she wanted privacy with my dad. He was too weak to stand up to her. I lived on friends' couches, scrambled to get a crappy old car and work multiple jobs, with no furniture once I got a cheap place of my own. She couldn't care less. I struggled and worked hard at menial jobs while building my freelance art business. My parents made fun of me and mocked me. I got free therapy from clinics because I also battled/battle C-PTSD as I tried to figure it all out. She hated everything about me, mocking and attacking me for anything, refusing to let me do laundry at their house, etc. I was conscientious and not trouble to them but she hated me anyways. She hated my boyfriends, any achievements, my looks, you name it. She stole my things (awards I won, anything she liked), belittled and talked crap about me to her surrogate "daughter", a coworker flying monkey who hung on every word she said. I kept my head down and worked hard, fueled by her wanting me to fail. In time, my knowledge and business grew. To my surprise I grew stronger and people liked my art. My success made both parents hate me. I kept at it. It's about making money and being free from them. I lived/live in fear of being broke and at anyone's mercy. Now I'm 57. My business thrives online and I am ok. My parents are old, angry and only contact me to pretend to be friendly to keep supply for a rainy day. I stopped calling and visiting two years ago after they cruelly attacked me and compared me as a "loser" to their rich friends's grown "do nothing" narcissistically inclined average kids (loved and educated because their parents cared). Whatever. They wanted to destroy and get back at me for not being controllable. Nope. My business thrives and she can't sabotage me anymore. I am at peace. They aren't. Never will be. Always desperate for supply. I'm an introvert and love my peace and solitude. I win.
I think this video is the single most important thing I've ever watched. You've explained vendictive narcissism so succinctly that I can see now why every attempt at reason I've made in my own situation has utterly failed. I'm going to stop trying now. Thank you for all the knowledge you've imparted here. Your videos are an excellent educational resource.
This is probably the most accurate description of what I have had to go through since I divorced my now ex wife. I watched her 2000 vindictive things to other women that had crossed her during the course of our 20 year marriage. Since I divorced her she has tried to destroy my reputation in town, she has call the police at least once a month. She is accused me of murder, money laundering, drug dealing, and child molestation, as recently as LAST WEEK on my 50th birthday. I must have the biggest investigation file of anybody in Florida.
This is so true with my family member. Sometimes I forget how horrible it felt to be on the receiving end of this. I am 34 and still trying to get myself together because I’ve been manipulated to believe that I can’t survive on my own. I’m beginning to realize I’ve held myself back because I’ve believed that I was incompetent & cannot succeed past a certain point. I’ve “dimmed my light” so to speak, in order to avoid making this particular person feel insecure or to not trigger jealousy. Ugh 😣 it’s hard to admit this, luckily I’m in therapy & I’m gonna get out of this situation as soon as I can.
Turn your back and walk away. You may be related by blood but as in a family member have they ever treated you like one? If not feel no guilt. I realized I had false hope for decades for the 3 narcs in the ‘family’ I grew up with. Mum passed and since she was ‘out of the house for good’ they started up their vile toxic abusive behavior towards me specifically, just like they did as we were growing up together. I’ve cut contact. Someone has to be the adult and realize I have to respect myself coz they certainly have never and will never. Take care and no guilt!👍🏼
Thank you so very much Dr Grande. I missed you since I’ve been working a temp job, but this is exactly, identically an experience I had with a female coworker! For 3 months she caused utter brain chaos and I didn’t know how to communicate with her. Nothing worked. I gave notice and when she found out she said to me ‘you might not like me, but the entire world loves me’. I never once said I didn’t like her, but anytime I was praised for something I did well by a superior, this woman would attack me viciously. I seriously started to wonder if I was losing my mind and acting improperly and questioned myself deeply. I’m so grateful to you. Your timing has saved me weeks or possibly more of wondering and worrying! 😘
Thank you, I left a work environment I was sharing with someone who met this criteria and it took me about 2 years to trust people in the work place again. Not only me but his, at the time ‘flying monkeys’, had him turn on them also once I left. Basically if you did well and achieved or had something he was jealous about you would get anonymous cowardice letter or emails sent to superiors or even the police to get you into trouble. I had to go to counselling for a couple of years to help me recover and realise the world isn’t such a bad place. Thank you for defining this person here, you don’t realise how much closure this has given me.
When you encounter a narcissist, run like the wind as far away from them as possible. Do not get involved with them on any level. Never engage with a narcissist. Avoid them at all costs. If you discover that your boss is one, find another job. If you find that your significant relationship is narcissistic, split from them immediately, without discussion. No contact.
Well, it's not always that easy. Sometimes they're your parents, siblings, or even your own children. And sometimes they manipulate you so well, that you cannot tell what they are until you're in too deep.
True. I escaped one recently. No contact for almost 2 weeks. Insane personality. Really made me feel I am getting slowly mad. Now the life is so much peaceful since he's gone from my life💞
It often takes a good deal of time to recognize I have been HAD, again, by a narcissist. THEN I dump and run. I was brought up by two narcissists. It takes me time to recognize all their various forms. I am so used to them I don’t even recognize them. It’s been a lifelong struggle. I love learning from these podcasts.
I wish I would've found out this information decades ago. My father is a narcissist, I don't know what type exactly. He was also an undiagnosed bi-polar until I was 22. I ended up marrying a VN, vindictive type, and your video is so spot on, its eerie. I walk on eggshells constantly, it is very stressful. I find it almost funny-but not, how people say "just leave" without any clue about what exactly that entails. Thank you for your videos, I'm learning so much.
To any one reading this, I would like to say from my own experience, if you are friends with one of these people or you are dating one of these people, dump them and move on with your life. The pain they cause you is not worth it and they will not change. God Bless anyone on here that has had to endure the pain, from a narcissist . To mothers and fathers who endured the pain, my heart breaks for you. I walked in your shoes but will never allow it again. It is very very hard, to except that the child you gave birth to is so ill, and its just as hard to except all the broken hearts they gave you and did not care at all that they broke your heart. Its hard knowing you gave birth to a beautiful baby, and one day the only way you can survive is to totally let them go. God Bless any one in those shoes.
@@Squidlark My sympathies go out to your family and to you. I hope you find God soon. You need him in your heart. You putting judgements on people and having the nerve to insult people, who you have never walked in their shoes tells me you know nothing about God. I hope you find him soon. I will not reply to any more that you say. You need a punching bag, it may take your anger issues away and buy a bible, so you can learn about Gods word. I hope you find him soon. He is the judge of people. Not u !
Thanks for this one! I can see this pattern now in my ex. I couldn’t understand why she used to come home from work in tears because someone ( a customer) gave her a hard time at the checkout. I now realise she couldn’t take any criticism whatsoever! I’ve also been on the receiving end of her rage ,when she perceived I was somehow putting her down, when I wasn’t at all. 😬😣
💯The same, some of these vids contradict themselves because trauma victims ruminate and feel anger 4 what the narcissist does which is basically calling u a vulnerable narcissist
@Siobhan Fogarty : So true I have much reason for vengeance on a couple of people ,but I have well moved on in life and it only comes to mind once in a blue moon when someone or something reminds me of the time & pain that was wasted with them. The feeling usually is just fleeting because I have so many other things in life that I am either responsible for or that I am enjoying ,or even just mellowed out with friends or myself that I don't care or even have time to even recall most of it all.
The difference is that a narcissist will act upon it in a way that hurts others. if you channel your anger into something else you’re probably all good.
So accurate in describing my mother. WOW. She is unrelenting and now suing me. You are so right, years of intermittent abuse and I would always look past her flaws and forgive or avoid her periodically. But once it got unrelenting I had no choice but to cut her out of my life. This is her exactly. Lord help me.
Your description of the vindictive narcissist validates my own thoughts and feelings about a particularly stressful situation at work. I've had a lot to think about, with so much going on there. The timing couldn't have been better, many thanks for all your good work.
I have not had any contact with my daughter or sister in over 22 years. unfortunately both are overt!! the business they have both chosen supply them with supply. both endorse each others bad behavior. stay away from narcissists !!!!!
This video describes my previous relationship so well. Was with my ex for 9 months and for 7 of those months, we constantly fought over his obsession with my roommate not saying hello to him the first month in our relationship. He only came over a handful of times the first 2 months. Our final argument was him trying to convince me for 5 hours on what I can do and say to my roommate to give “give them a taste of their own medicine” and stop being friends with them to save our relationship. An international trip to meet his family and a trip to Vegas with mine, we argued about my roommate and other things, I was given the silent treatment many times. My roommate had no clue, they were just existing and trying to survive school. Even when I brought it up to my roommate later in my relationship, my roommate apologized and worked on making it better. My ex was still upset because i didn’t do it the right way and I should’ve made my roommate feel bad and disrespected just as he felt the entire relationship. In his words, “I chose my roommate over my boyfriend” but I chose not to be controlled, take “revenge” and be mean on his behalf.
He sounds incredibly toxic. At some point, he would take out his anger and vengefulness on some real or perceived slight that YOU had done to him, so you were right in ending the relationship before you became the target.
I refuse to be a flying monkey. I refuse to be dragged down to their misery. No matter how much one tries to lift them up, they seem to be comfortable in their misery. Glad you put out this video. Thank you.
Lack of insight.. oh boy! Ain't that the truth!! Zero accountability... well, why would they need any?? It's all clearly their nemesis' fault!! Passive resistance, passive ineffectiveness, especially in regards to something their bothersome scapegoat considers important or holds dear!! Elated, that their bothersome scapegoat is beginning to have a normal reaction of frustration & anger, in regards to the abnormal situation the scapegoat find themselves in.. RINSE & REPEAT...... THANK YOU Dr Grande! I adore your work & dedication! Organising my new house & paying forward old belongings & buying new ,, has kept me from your voice of reason & soothing presentations, I've still not caught up on some of your recent vlogs.. time to catch up while soaking in the bath 😂😂😂😂😂
The Narcissist is the one Preying on others... so they would be Initiating the Insult or Offense. Revenge is a Reaction to an Offense but the Offense could be a reaction to the Narcissist's behaviour...
The revenge a narcissist seeks is very often a result of an IMAGINED offense against them. My narc punished me for years over an affair that never happened at all.
As always this was incredible helpful, thank you so much Dr. Grande. You described my cousin word for word; she was childish, always the victim (even though she sexually abused me), couldn’t tolerate any amount of criticism even when approached very politely, set double standards and excused her bullying behaviour as being necessary because I “haven’t had as tough of a life” and needed “to learn”. There was never any way to rationalize with her or have a civil disagreement, and eventually she ‘snapped.’ So glad she is no longer in my life, and that I now have the knowledge and am gaining the tools to protect myself and my daughter from those kind of toxic behaviours. Thank you again and take care 🙏
Sadly, my one daughter (38), my one sister (80), and my ex and his wife all grouped against me and not allowing me to see my grandchildren. I have NO-ONE, I AM 63 AND AND SO HURT it is unbearable. I have been nothing but GOOD to these people.
God Bless you Martha. I know the pain you live with. You feel alone but you are not totally alone. God is with you and you are not the only good mother and good grand mother that has to live with the pain of not seeing those children you love so much I am in the same boat as you and I know how much it hurts My only child daughter , I am in the same boat Martha and I am telling you this, because its not your fault. Please remember that. I took my pain to the Lord, it was all I had left. I found a Church, not a religion, a church that I felt good in and related to the pastor, and that is how I was able to move on with my life. I always miss my grand children but I except there is nothing I can do today. I hope when they are grown I will get a chance to be in their life. What was done to you is what these heartless sick people do. I will never go any where where I would see her as long as I live. There is no cure for her and all she would give me is more pain. I am older then you Martha. You can stop hurting so bad. with the help of God and prayers. And when you think of her, tell satan to get behind you. God is with you
I am 70 in similar state of strife. My adult nephews have "drunk the kool-aid" and spoken against me, as in your case I have done nothing wrong. The Vindictive Narc busies herself smearing my character. It's so destructive for the next generations to not have us at all. Find peace and pray for them, I believe things will improve for you. This is truly a thing we cannot correct on our own.
It took me YEARS to realize that when my husband and best friend did really mean things to me, it was always tied to me attempting to either set a boundary or do self care. Once, when I was on a 4 day trip with my best friend, I got up on the last morning and decided to get coffee and watch the news in the hotel lobby and let her and her daughter shower first. (She doesn't drink coffee and doesn't watch the news.) When I returned, I took my turn in the shower. Unbeknownst to me, she was angry that I hung out in the lobby and called the bellhop while I was in the shower to pick up our luggage, which was an hour earlier than our agreed upon checkout time. I was so confused and when we got in the car, I asked her when the schedule changed, but she just clamed up and refused to explain herself. (The toxic person's unwillingness to explain their actions/vindictive retaliation is a tattle-tail sign of what it truly is, and enhances the confusion over the event.) I did realized that I should not ever travel with her again, but it took me years to fully understand how controling, vindictive and toxic she really is.
I’m currently nearing the end of a relationship with a vindictive narcissist. I really love him and I believe he loves me but he’s just too damaged to participate in a relationship. He doesn’t want to break up with me but he also refuses to speak to me which doesn’t make any sense. When I tell him I feel like he hates me he says that he doesn’t. Regardless, knowing that his behavior has nothing to do with me is really freeing and I can take responsibility for my issues on being attracted to such a frustrating personality.
Why are you attracted to him? I guess after 50 years of terrible relationships and 2 narcissistic parents, I find it's so much better to be alone. I can spot these narcissists a mile away now!
I always find it strange when I hear a man being difficult in a relationship. Men are very very easy to please and yet in my experience women go out of their way to make sex unobtainable. Men are only with women for sex as we have our friends who are much better company.
This was a great video. Very informative. I’m stuck in a workplace full of these freaks. They have destroyed the company that I work for so bad that now It is hanging by a thread. God bless everyone here. Smitty.
Thank you 🙏 for another brilliant analysis of narcissism and thank you 🙏 for explaining a concept I hadn’t heard of before, Vindictive Narcissism. The penny has just dropped for me in what type of narcissism my sister suffers from. I’d always thought of her as a Covert narcissist up to this point and from what you have described, she is. But I now realise where her capacity for vindictiveness comes from and how she is able to turn on anyone whom she cannot control. Her capacity for revenge is like a bottomless pit. Once crossed she switches into revenge mode and no amount of reasoning works. In my experience reasoning fuels her resolve to maintain herself as the victim which is an odd situation to be in. Her favourite method of revenge is to use the silent treatment whilst at the same time getting her flying monkeys to either attack you or also use silent treatment. I’ve often said that being around my sister feels like being bullied by the school bully. I’ve decided that the silent treatment is not a strong enough description to describe this type of punishment towards me because it goes on for too long. She hasn’t spoken to me for over 5 years, which is a long time for silent treatment. Interestingly one of my late aunties used to do the same, in fact the longest period that she didn’t speak to her only son was for 22 years. It’s incredible isn’t it? My late mother used the same punishment as her weapon of choice. My late father had BPD and couldn’t tolerate the silent treatment and so even though he could be violent and controlling towards her, I noticed it was she who had the ultimate control over him. And me - I got the hell out dodge at the age of 18 and didn’t look back. I’m 57 years old now and after decades of healing from my once significant Codependency and Anxiety, I lead a full and healthy life away from my family of origin. I find these videos to be fascinating. I only wish I’d been able to have access to them in my younger years. It would have helped me enormously. Another excellent video 🙏👏👏👏🙏
"BRAVO" Ruth.... I left when I was 18 but came back 6 times... I am now here, but am planning on leaving for good. I too believe I was codependent and had anxiety because I couldn't figure this out... I now know this video describes the person in my life is just that V.N. ... so I'll move on and accept this.
I love these clinical videos!!! Dr. Grande is so smart and so logical and the delivery of these very involved and in-depth concepts is always clear and easy to understand. I am shocked how Dr. Grande can concisely state every aspect of a diagnosis and the results they engender in human relationships. I remain so grateful for Dr. Grande's videos!!!
still waiting for that "self-destruct" after her revenge - I don't think they all do 'self-destruct' they just get more puffed up thinking they WON! they got you!!! haha!!! final destruction is when they take their last breath and wake up in HELL!
My ex self destructed when I did the 180 technique (similar to grey rock but designed for dealing with cheaters). The victory was short lived because he turned his efforts towards our daughter. He hates me so much he abuses her in attempts to alienate her from me. It's sickening. To this day he still justifies it all by claiming that I cheated on him, something he knows full well never happened. He is the one who cheated with his best friends wife ... and somehow in his mind his best friend and I are to blame. It's been almost ten years and he is still trying to rewrite history. His quest for revenge against my non-existent infedility ruined his life and our daughter's. She is still trying to get his approval, and I just hope she escapes his manipulations and recovers like I did.
Mine self-destructed and sexually abused my child in front of me, knowing he would go to jail. He did it anyway to inflict the harm upon our mother-daughter bond which he has (I suspect) resented and wish to disintegrate & dominate from day 1.
Dr Grande-THIS is another key piece your videos have added to the generational “mosiac” of narcissism i have been sorting for a year as now a 74yo disabled target of a 42yo daughter who since a horrid delivery where she was delayed leaving the birth canal then once freed was Apgar 1.3 and nurse had whispered to colleagues “Oh, we have LIFE.” when all had thought i had a past-term stillborn killing me on the table… i was coached that how this trauma might manifest over time was impossible to predict…. and as my 12th pregnancy but only second and final survivor…. my diligent monitoring of her progresses, but also notable, delays required me as a suddenly single mom when she was in Kindergarten (big sister golden child is 4 years older) I’ve been on top of every inch of raising her through a morphing through mental illness/developmental problems/promiscuity/alcohol & drug addictions but now sober/covert to overt to malignant to arriving at vindictive narcissist Sept 2021 in a stunning finale (ty for this video) where she manipulated her sister to latch onto her and agree to a sudden no-contact-with-mom pact as the “grown women” I’m now at fault for thinking that they are still little girls, don’t show them unconditional love, etc hooking that golden child she was increasingly envious of as if a rival and jealous of any time she saw me do anything with just her sister as they were growing up with just me parenting and supporting them. She’s super cunning now and ruthless. She scored, last fall in time to sabotage our trio of Virgo birthdays we’ve always honored as a combo, by separating her sister away and initiating their joint no-contact. Shes always used being the victim with her sister, with her partners in 3 committed relationships, all bosses… and has convinced her sister to align with her since they are the surviving generation that deserves to have a life now. …whew…. I didn’t think i could write this much of it out! But … although I’ve been binge-watching at least a half-dozen narc experts to sort out how family personalities have been circling and influencing one another… once you hit VINDICTIVENESS here, I finally saw that only one person in the entangled relationships (that also include my father and then theirs, as shades of narcissism) hit that degree of dark ruthlessness. And I’m the one she must triumph. I get it now. But it doesn’t get more tragic, however i am able to let go forever, of maybe both, to save my home, modest money, and use whats left of my own life to live without mentally ill predators. Weeping for myself though. And the babies i once bore in 1975 and 1979. Ive never clung to them yearning to keep them for myself. The 4 generations of the family tree is thick with addiction, big mental illness, abuses, incest, financial “illness”, deception, etc. Ive done my very best understanding all that both daughters have faced in almost complete opposite versions of narcissism and my heart is broken for all three of us because i can see and understanding how we all arrived at this point… but it crossed the line where i now stand my ground. Orchestrating a premature conservatorship attempt on me, grab my assets, and convince others its time for a nursing home as if i cant care for myself, i live “alone”, (wtf? its not illegal!) and id be “better off” in a facility with new friends my own age… the “care” to be funded by the assets i nearly killed myself to scratch together for over 40 years while raising them.
I hope putting it out there helps liberate you some more. It's very hard going no contact with close family. I still feel that I want to say some final things. Not so much for her to understand but to just hear the words.
Another topic that would be extremely beneficial would be “How to deal with narcissists in business negotiations when they have clear leverage” and you can’t avoid it For example, do you stroke their ego to achieve your goal in the meeting? do you ignore their narcissistic and egocentric remarks? do you simply withdraw completely? I ask because there seems to be an over representation of narcissists in the entrepreneurial social realm.
Being disagreeable I've found tends to be the very first flag that presents with almost all narcisisstic people, arguing about EVERYTHING for the sake of pointless argument. A few of them know how to hide this well and can seem to agree with everything and they mimic your thought process about everything but they are quite often the most vindictive of all in a very covert way.
I was a shift leader in a call center and I took on other duties as well. One morning, a female coworker smiled at me and a 30 year old brat threw an obnoxious temper tantrum over not getting all of the attention. I didn't feel it was my job to take it or customers place to hear it so I reported it to my supervisor. She accused me of judging and told me to leave him alone. I said nothing to him. I went to another supervisor about his behavior and when mine got word, she came in early just to harass me with extreme hatred about it putting words in my mouth making an all out show of her favoritism. She wouldn't allow me to say anything. It was so stressful, I was shaking. A week later, she fired me for mentioning him. When I reported the harassment to HR, they said they would look into it and get back to me. Crickets. Deafening silence. It was behind closed doors so she lied her way out of it. I learned later, he got my job as lead but was fired shortly after. Another employee reported his attitude and she had to save face. I did (as it was my job) and I was a criminal.
The same happened to me. It’s a double whammy when a colleague and supervisor team up! I’m better off that they didn’t renew my contract at year’s end; however, it was miserable to face it every day. Scary world.
@uare you : Typical. "You have no idea"...blah blah blah ..."deleted comments" (covering time tracks "never said that") , "judging" (shaming language). Tells me to stop commenting (basically shut up/control/oppression) ,then accuses me of being a Narc... Freaking straight outta the Covert Narc playbook. Even your username is an accusation. Yeah I think I'm doing just fine with this whole Narc thing. I got your number bro : Narc 101.
Finally, something makes sense!! Would sadism also fall into this category? Ex, enjoying how their behaviors acutely hurt someone else, like sadistic taunting and torturing and neglect. Thank you for sharing your knowledge in these videos.
Watching these videos, my supervisor was a vindictive narcissist. I realize I am a vulnerable narcissist, and our boss was a Machiavellianistic. Our President, he could have been a psychiatrist, I’m now realizing, kept everyone in check. He protected me against them so I could have a job, which was important to me as a single mother. They hated this, people actually told me they were jealous of that. The HR lady even wrote that in a note to me. When he died, all hell broke loose. I took a few vacation days, and someone told me ‘Machiavelli’ was walking around saying he was going to fire me. I didn’t know why. I tried so hard on that job, and no one was ever happy.
This was pure gold , Thank you so much for this DR, Describes these two perfectly, Making mountain out of mole hills, pulling everyone in to their, Drama, Quite competiton, Petty vendetta, Triangulating, manipulating, Influence, I'm glad I'm nothing like them, All praise to the most high :-) Peace, love and respect to you and everyone, Thank you universe, All glory and smiles to the most high :-)
I respectfully disagree to an extent. I feel that many individuals who have been victims of others that show traits of narcissism simply want to be free from them and are incredibly fearful of what can happen to others if that person isn’t held to some account. Especially if they are in charge of others’ lives that are vulnerable and are still actively doing those same things. I am sure some cases are like this but most people that I have met that have been victimized in any way mostly tend to obsess and ruminate over that NOT vengeance. It’s just telling others everything can then put them at risk as well. Just a point of view, I’m sure it’s not like that always. Thank you for your videos, I look forward to them always because the topics you discuss are very interesting and the resources you provide are helpful. Best wishes to everyone.
Gollum’s Lover this is a great point, if you are on the receiving end of this it’s very easy to slip into ruminating about how you will resolve it, making logical analysis of their sloppy onslaught which usually is insulting to anyone’s intelligence, the fact they use an ounce of truth and and ounce of believability is also infuriating as the rumination on the part of the victim of their behaviour is gaslit into believing they might be the one with the problem. Aaaarrrghgh they are so cowardly and vain.
most I know are family, mine and my husbands. very sad. we are 2 empaths that found each other and have so much in common just now realizing how much after 40 years of marriage! wow. some of us are slow to realize what has been going on our whole lives. and it's very sad that all that time was wasted on narcs!
Thank you I'm No Contact and never have to explain or deal with any of their toxicity!! I love myself and I'm very Happy and Healthy! Narc free is the way to go, my friends!! 😄 Love to everyone!!
My mother is a vindictive narcissist. I haven’t spoken to her since she abandoned me in 1985. It was hard going from 15 years old to an adult in under a month, but now I look back and it was the best thing she ever did for me. She is a horrible person. No love lost.
I also have a problematic sister like this. She has been diagnosed as "bipolar". But I don't think bipolar people go out of their way to hurt others...
@@catspajamas2961 EXACTLY! She's received treatment for bipolar for years, and has even been hospitalized. But so far after years of treatment, she is no better. So methinks it's something else...
Same. I know my friends sister played victim in court for alleged abuse by her parents but there's no evidence. She simply wants complete control and custody of her first child and strip away any communication between her and her family. Long story short, she's a bitch with no empathy.
I dealt with a vindictive narcissist over a decade ago. She tried every trick in the book by filing numerous false police reports with three police depts saying I did every heinous thing imaginable to her. I was later told by someone in law enforcement that I handled all this quite well. I never ever responded through social media or email which really pissed her off. These narcissists need attention all the time to make people believe their bs lies. It was eventually figured out how crafty she was being. She got fined and arrested. I knew better than to give attention to the gaslighting etc. I never got arrested. I kept my cool on the exterior. I was seeing a psychologist anyway during that time which helped me talk about my frustrations with this internally. Even though I was completely innocent, she went as far as telling lies to my family and friends. I no longer have family or friends as a result. It went so far. Even worse her son who was a child back then is an adult in the military now. I found out that she told him lies about me. He wanted to come after me. It didn't work out for him. I was notified by law enforcement about him and a plot to harm me. He was arrested and kicked out of the military. She was nothing but a female monster who destroys innocent lives with her lies.
Thanks for addressing this type of narcissism. I was literally taking notes. These types definitely don't learn from their immature behaviour and are poisonous to relationships. When confronted by someone coolly and calmly they are typically caught off guard but they'll deflect and gas light despite it being obvious they're avoiding the issue of accountability or owning negative behaviours. I recognise a few individuals who, due to a past tendency - decades ago, thankfully! - to 'people-please' as a result of narcissistic parents, I let into my life as so-called "friends" and did I ever regret this! Vindicative narcissists use others and will seek people out who they admire and who are willing to be their 24/7 unpaid personal 'counsellors' whilst actively resenting the fact the other individual has, as they view it, 'the power' to be in such a position. It's ridiculous and emotionally so very immature. Also, you're right - they don't learn from past mistakes, errors in judgment, or relationship issues. They dwell on what they feel others have done to injure them in some way or another and become preoccupied with revenge even at their own expense. And they continue to repeat the same errors and resent even a very tactful explanation of such negative habits. Frankly, if these vindictive narcissists can be avoided or confronted and the relationships ended (by the non-narcissist), it makes for a much easier and happier life.
Thanks again for your insights, Dr Grande. There seem to be so many strains to NPD that for the layperson it can be difficult to make a proper assessment of who they might be dealing with. These people are certainly damaged and have the ability to inflict damage on others.
@@DrGrande I'm really enjoying this video and I was wondering whether if you have any others where you're discussing the type of narcissists who are miserable and want to drag others into their misery rather than over come their misery ?
My brother was driving the car and I was in the passenger seat. It was winter and there was snow on the ground and the roads were wet, not frozen but it was a hilly area with lots of curves. My brother took both hands off the steering wheel and continued driving. I was freaked out and frightened. Please keep your hands on the steering wheel. He ignored me. He eventually put his hands back on the steering wheel and we arrived at the main street of the little town. I went into a cafe and called my parents and asked them to pick me up. I wasn’t going to get back in the car with my brother. My brother told me I was making a big deal out of nothing.
Hi Dr. Todd! You do great work and I respect your dedication to RUclips and helping people! I hope one day I have the chance to do a video with you as I would love to chat!
I always called it "stewing". He would stew on something, and later call or text back and declare he thought about it and realized he was offended. Then demand it righted or there would be hell to pay. Always needed forgiveness for his toxic behavior and offenses, but would hold grudges on me from things over a decade ago. I'm not out yet. Getting healthier so I can get out with as little damage as possible bc we have a young child. I'm terrified, but also fed up.
Brandy C yea mine did the same as yours. I’ve been divorced 2 yrs. unfortunately still have to communicate because of my 10 yr old daughter. It’s so hard to leave that type of situations but day by day it gets better. I haven’t found another man yet but worked in getting emotionally healthy and had therapy to get to the root of my issues. He still treats me bad any chance he gets. But I live in peace now. I’m very lonely and still to this day think about how much I loved him and cry for the death of the marriage and how my daughter now is a product of divorce. But I know I would never ever be with him again. I’m looking forward to a healthy normal living relationship someday. Good luck I suggest you get out soon. It’s gonna be very painful in the beginning but it gets better I wasted 17 yrs. Don’t waste that many.
Brandy C and the younger the child the better for you to get out. That’s less damage to the child believe me. My daughter witnessed his behavior towards me . Sometimes I was like a doormat other times I had to fight back. Now it’s much better cause she doesn’t see fighting. And she told me she knows we are better apart and at least she doesn’t see us fight. I could have divorced am when she was 6 and tried to hung in there till she was almost 9. That was a mistake. Please trust me. The earlier the easier it is on the child
@@blackwellbrooklyn6142 I pleaded with him to stop, I stayed quiet, I yelled back on few occasions in short: he would continue and rehash again on any other day. It’s been 3.5 yrs out of that hell and I’m at peace. But have one huge regret: I wish I had left him way earlier.
Flying Monkeys: My encounter with the covert narcissist they had six other people convinced I had done something to abuse them. There is a lingering feature after encountering these people. It is like a kind of stain that somehow I took on some of their darkness. I was able to recover from what they did however it has left another lingering issue. How will I ever trust again ...
You use the work grievance procedures if you are the victim. As stated they are so sloppy in their execution of revenge that it’s easy to catch them out. Just write everything down that happens, minute everything. Then present your evidence, following company policy to a tee, while ensuring you point out where company policy has not been followed by the vn. It’s a lot of work, but it’s possible and the odds are stacked in your favour. Even the stigma of an investigation puts a glass ceiling on their careers and stops them going on to do more untold harm. And if you are proven by investigation to be justified, the consequent recommendations for disciplinary for them will stop them in their tracks and they consequently resign, even before the recommendations come out to try to save face. Either way, you will rid yourself of them.
@@natorus I would also recommend what Lisa Schofield said. And, sadly, if necessary, be prepared to look for another job or to put up a bloody good fight at the highest leadership and legal levels. It can be exhausting, but in my experience it was worth it .. I still ended up having to accept 'voluntary redundancy' after going on sick for some time, and even though my career was, to a large degree, ruined, I received a very good financial reward and returned to my career 7 years later and held my head up high and set the record straight and the abuser had to face the fear of what I'd say or do, and between that time I was able to explore what I truly loved doing, and won an award for it and helped lots of other people, and changed as a person, became stronger .. and I don't miss the pressure and stress of that job and environment anyway. Whatever you do, the key thing is to keep squeaky clean, record everything, let others know you're recording it all, dig deep for courage and resilience, and stay firm and grounded to your truth .. and breathe !!
I tried all the policy stuff at work but place was riddled with narcissists and the organisation didn't want to know. The narcs just lied and as everything was done covertly or gaslighting or one to one with much victim playing I just had to leave. Truth came out when I left but in my experience best to find a new job.b
Jack Goodings yes similar experience to me. I left the job a few years down the line, I was never able to gain respect back for my profession. I didn’t pursue financial compensation, just went on sick for a year with stress. On full pay and then half pay for the last six months, I still pocketed about £40k. I was happy with that and took early retirement. The vn jumped ship and resigned before the result of the investigation but I got their flying money beautifully through investigation.
i have been in a situation since I was 17 years of age. I am now 48. I am finally coming to my senses but it is heartbreaking to finally realise that the years of my life have been caught up in a repeated pattern which was originally formed within my family. My intelligence had nothing to do with not noticing it. I was repeating a deeply primitive, emptional pattern which was formed very early on. Thank you Dr. Todd Grande for an integral an a siginificant part in my process of learning,about my own processes and why I attract people who harbour attributes relating to vindicate narcissism. It is a painful process but a necessary one.
Thank you for the clear information. It’s such a challenge to even begin to make sense of a narcissist’s motivations and behaviours. How much life misery could be prevented if this topic was taught to high school youth?
Hi Todd, a great insight thank you! I had an experience with a partner and quite a few months back, stumbled upon your vulnerable narcissist descriptions which seemed to really fit what I was experiencing from this person. It was all quite confusing, I did talk myself out of the possibility of it because of my feeling for them. Fast forward to now, it stunned me as they seemed to be punishing me emotionally and they broke up with me in a rage. I allowed the breakup to happen and felt somewhat relieved. What was wild was that I think they assumed I would beg for them back and even though they where withholding my belongings for quite some time I remained in my domain. I saw that they used my toothbrush to paint with (this person is a sign writer) and not only did they post the image with the description “toothbrush and ink” but they also took a picture of my toothbrush covered in ink and put it online. I was shocked to see an act of revenge, even though they discarded me! Freaked me out. Wild behaviour and they have no idea that seeing this repelled me further.
I'm always looking for clues to these types of behaviors in communication. I found a table that compares constructive criticism versus destructive or abusive criticism. I also noticed that people who tend to be more obsequious to superiors tend to be more condescending toward subordinates and are very upset when they find out someone they look down upon makes as much or more money than they do, even by just a few dollars.
Thanks, I like your videos. Also, I’m always impressed at the comment section, your viewers seem to be thoughtful people who engage in interesting conversations. I don’t usually see a lot of nasty insults or back and forth...pretty refreshing!
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I was married to a vindictive narcissist for 36 years. It took me a long time to realize what he was, I just knew how miserable I was. I’ve been divorced for 2 years and I feel released from a prison.
Would you have stayed with a nice guy for 36 years ?
AGREE SAME 38 YEARS OF HELL SEPERATED FINALLY 2019 DIVORCED MARCH 2022 A CHEATING LOWLIFE EVIL RAT ....
I don't know how their relationships last...I had one that kept bringing up something small that happened 10 years ago and still punishing me for it. Its been months I haven't seen him... since February 2022
I'm just sorry it took you 36 years!!!
@@blackwellbrooklyn6142 If he were nice, I'm sure she would still be married. There are people that take their marriage vows seriously and if there are children involved, it changes things.
"it's about dragging other people down into that misery they experience... they are going to destroy themselves in order to destroy you"
Yes you are so right about that
This describes Kathleen Kennedy perfectly.
The Loser Don't Do Its To A Guy I Had A Coward And He Going To Jail .I Never Backs Down To Him
I Fought Rights Backs Took Him To Court .And Got A Warning .Wasn't Going To Takes His Crap He A Coward.
cdc
All narcissists can be boiled down to one factor: they will pull whatever shit they think they can get away with, and only grow bolder with apathy.
Sounds like a liberal.
Yeah they will.
exactly! I think they are ALL everything just at different times just depends on what their life is like, their job, their personal WANTS, etc. they do WHATEVER they need to do to get what they want. period. the overt is also covert at times, the covert is also overt at times, the mac is also vindictive etc. etc. whatever tactic that suits them at any given time. not all of them care about fancy clothes and cars etc.(grandiose materially) some like to lay low in simple housing and autos and clothing and jewelry while thinking they are grandiose mentally (know more about everything than everyone else). mine thinks she knows more than God himself but lives in a small mobile home in a park and has a very old car. she went out and bought a 'wedding' ring after my dad died. why? they do all kinds of things that make no sense to the normal person. she acquired a lot of wealth when my father died which instantly turned her into a monster (or did it just allow her to let the beast within loose because NOW she has all that POWER?) almost right before my eyes she went from bad (all my life) to the worse I've ever seen. it was horrible she was tired of waiting so she actually pulled his plug so he would die! the love of money will make a psychopath so much worse. RUN!! and don't look back!
That is empirically true:
Evidence based on experience and observations.
I need a divorce very very very badly
@Just For Fun If you see all that in Trump, you're delusional. TDS is real,
The best thing you can do when encountering a narcissist is to ignore them and get away from them
@jfsfrnd
RIGHT!!!!!
Hard when one is our president. I agree more folks should ignore his daily drivel however.
@@TheNotsoignorant well said .
@@TheNotsoignorant His own words out of his own mouth are testimony to his narcissism. The media don't make up the video of him running his mouth.
@jfsfrnd what a shame you were primed and quartered with no chance of ever being treated of innocence and value. What a rotten shame.
Some examples of vindictiveness include witholding time, resources, patience, refusal to help, the feeling that they are entitled to railroad the rights of others, disregard for family members feelings and selfishness.
Krissi Berry sound like a narcissist wrote this. Read that five times and if you can't understand narc. Okay. Never debate or attempt to with a narcissist...
@@pvt.rickert4002 some people have narcs in their immediate families.
Wow. It sounds as if you are one of my brothers or sister. The one that thinks as I do knows how I feel. My brothers are daft and my mother is busy deystroying them and their families.
Been there and done that cant do it anymore, ever again.
Oh, fuck. Crude as it is, this sounds like me. I'll admit it, I'm so emotionally distant from my family that they're like strangers to me, and I don't feel inclined to be there for them at all. Still, I don't like being hated, so I'll stick by to stave that off. What a strange mental disorder; I knew I was self-centered, but I never realized what a problem it is.
If I return to the level of no more weapons involved, then either as the victor, or as one vengeful old man. No offence, but soft cases are NOT the norm!
Husband of 16 years is a vindictive narcissist. It started out slowly. Love bombed into marriage. First I called him out, stood my ground, but he just never quit. I started "picking my battles". Mistake, he interpreted this as acquiescence. I started traveling more and more for my work to get away from him. I had no idea, what he was. Thought it was just low self esteem. He hated my success. Can't for the life of me figure out why he would have latched on to me. I'm usually strong and independent. Finally, I started googling some of his behavior and it all fell into place. I was dealing with a covert/vindictive narcissist. Gave him an ultimatum to get help. You can imagine how well that was received. He started in on a 9 month silent treatment and little petty acts of punishment. All the while, I was planning my escape. I'm gone now, but still have to face the ordeal of a divorce from this nasty petty vindictive little person. Healing and working up a head steam. Thanks for these clear videos. Part of my recovery process.
good for you. i agree with you. they are envious of our success but they won’t do anything to improve themselves. they seem like they are doing things on purpose to provoke a reaction that is not our normal behavior then play victim.
Taking down a strong, confident target is far more appealing to the Narc. You represent all they are not. Your qualities trigger the NPD behavior as it reflects their insufficiencies. The GET OFF on emotional response. Twisted ...
@@Georgia1981 Well put,my ex narc used to say "I know you love your job and I am going to make you lose it" and also "IF I LET YOU study for your midwifery you will think that you are better than me!"
Sadly getting a divorce from those people can be hell as they always manage to fool most lawyers and judges,mostly when it comes to child custody.
...."all the while I was planning my escape"...💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🖤
Signs: (watch vid for proper context)
1 Dominance (control)
2 Power (they should not have it!)
3 Manipulation (they’re not good at it)
4 Revenge (d/t criticism insult advice)
5 Sloppy (due to: rage)
6 Rumination (plot is gradual d/t intolerable insult)
7 Revenge plot (a time of time invested to this end regardless of the outcome)
8 Emotional deregulation (will get back at you)
9 Victimhood (they believe they are setting things right - entitlement)
10 Attempts ++++ (b/c they don’t know when to walk away, or let it be)
Excellent vid!
O, sounds like my last ex, who sent flying monkeys, including former f--k buddies, to try finding out what I was up to, and even trying to catfish me on Facebook!
@@brusselsprout5851 Yes it is Judy, it's become quite interesting now .. dangerous potentially when we let them get too close, but interesting. They don't realise we're actually watching them watch us hahaha :)
Guilty on 8/10 accounts. I have no idea what to do with criticism... It confuses me, because I make every attempt to do things right such that I don't have to face my flaws - delicate ego here - and feel as if all that effort was pointless. It's very goddamn frustrating.
Differentiating between an insult and "fair" criticism is difficult too... there seems to be a continuum in the matter, and interpreting where the line is? A practice in learned helplessness. Criticisms on my attitude or personality are a no-go, so my suggestion? Pretend I have a (peripheral) mental illness and help me treat it.
Insults, in my opinion, are unforgivable. That's it... you're less than human to me and deserve endless retaliation. I've always had the saying, "don't poke the bear if you don't want to get mauled." Getting someone to just fuck off is never good enough... I want to pusue and eliminate. An apology and subservience goes a long way though.
Yes, I know this is a highly unreasonable way of thinking, and I fear that it may turn into something beyond stewing in bitterness for weeks on end with age and experience. Still, I don't feel inclined to want to change it, but to develop it and exact retribution on everyone who ever insulted me or criticised my attitude. (Help, I'm actually a crazy person! XD)
Oh man the Revenge. Now it’s on stage 10 because they can’t get over the fact that I’m not gonna give a reaction even if they literally stand in front of me
Everyone has traits of narcissism. With all the people judging others of personality disorders it's getting a bit redundant. No one has a perfect personality. It seem's as though everyone is a narc except for the individual judging others with traits of narcissism. Are there more people with personality disorders in general population or not? Would a narcissistic person watch videos on narcissism? I'm confused.
I lived with a vindictive narcissist. Document the pattern to allow you to understand the vindictive behavior. For example, accidentally breaking your belongings, staged accidents, staged arguments, passive aggressive behavior, intentionally wreaking your car, hiding your items and later returning (or not). Eventually, you and others recognize the vindictive pattern. Can you talk about the social ineffectiveness (i.e., jobs; working) of the vindictive narcissist? The vindictive narcissist I know, never learn from mistakes. They repeat the same maladaptive behavioral loop with same self-sabotaging social outcome.
Oh by the way you can't take the car tomorrow for work I need it! Telling me he went to my new job and told everybody who I am! Accidentally breaking some of my favorite dishes!
@RPM man, everything in your comment is just right on the mark 🎯
Yes OMG everyday i steal her phone or her sim card e.t.c one morning i can Recall waking up to my land lady screaming at me about her phone. She took my laptop and hurled it at
My head like she was playing disc golf.( i later found our she could’ve went pro 10 years ago) she was going for one of my technic turntable’s i grabbed her and pushed her out of my studio. She preceded to call me every name in the book then told me she was calling the cops and telling them i hit her. As she is standing on front porch calling them. I ask her if i stole your phone how are you calling the cops.😆 she did not think that was funny went over to her side of the double to wait for them(never live next door to your landlady).When they showed up she was pretty rude to them and after talking to me they had a prettu good grasp of the situation. I can’t tell you how many more times this scenario has happened because I’m still in the process of leaving this crazy 2 year stint in this emotional trap house of horrors. At least another 50 to 60 times snd varying degrees of severity. She was always shooting her nose off to spite her face as they say. Truly awful behavior non stop accusations and near constant fear of someone is out to get them usually a mutual aquatints. Their revenge fantasy’s are often like a cartoon like a road runner cartoon and of course she was always the road runner lol. Anyways the good doctor nails it again solid stuff here.
omg I'm dealing with one right now and I swear I think I'm losing my mind at times because I know it is him taking my belongings because one minute they are there and the next they are not. Now can you be a vindictive narcissist as well as a covert narcissist?
@@kerryhernandez647 get yourself some sparkles put them around some of your things on purpose like a journal... sparkles never lie they'll be all over his face! It works try to get white sparkles if possible you'll know whether or not he touched your things don't confront him at first let it allow it to happen a few times! Good luck and you're not crazy!
There is no other youtuber I can trust as it comes to narcissism ... I can see they lack credibility, objectivity and see this construct in a hollywood-dramatic way. I’m glad you exist, thank you!
You are quite welcome!
Yes, I also agree with the said comment! Dr Grande is the only person I tend to listen to. He has such a way of verbalizing the topic without making it sound cliche or boring.
I agree!
there's a couple/few others I like, but Dr. Grande's logical, straight-forward approach is appreciated here too
I totally agree!
These people are dangerous to the extent of even murder.
Yup definitely, he slammed my head into the floor over words. He was a little bit drunk but that's no excuse. I had brain damage, saw white spots couldn't move my neck for 3 days. Scary as hell, I thought I knew him and never saw it coming.
My exwife threatened me with suicide if I ever left her and sometimes with a murder / suicide. I’m so happy to be single now.
@@ChineseChicken1 feels good to be free. I know the feeling! 😁👍👌
@@victoriaanne8305 Wow scary, I hope that you are out of that relationship! 😵😱
@@victoriaanne8305 Yes I couldn't agree more with you on that statement. Feminist movement did start because of the way women and children were treated so badly. Men don't protect us! It's better to be alone. When I'm alone is when I feel safe and secure. Feminism is the right to be human.
Wow... I remember my ex saying he would damage someone’s stuff because he felt insulted. This was my life. Now alone but at peace.... smiling more and feeling like the world just opened it’s doors to me. Thank you doctor. 😊
My H is destroying my stuff daily. Cutting the seams on all my clothes, putting holes in every towel (they are his too…?) stealing stuff and returning it to another spot. Denying true facts…gaslighting. I totally called him out on all of this and said “if you are the one destroying all my stuff, you have serious mental issues and you really should stop.” He didn’t so now I just laugh and buy new stuff. It’s his money.
@@chakkakon
Tit for tat won't last long. You could be driving along and odd noises up front quickly turn into your front wheel outrunning the rest of the car? Now the cars not a TOTAL loss and you " live " through this possible homicide event..... YEAH!! Now you only need to make sure ALL those lugnuts are ALL THE WAY TIGHT each time you drive..... take your time, just get the wrench out and give them ALL a tug. Yep just tug each lug. Or!! Leave the NUT.🤭
@@chakkakon so you don’t leave because it’s his money? That’s super sad! I’d leave in a heart beat. Or you can kick him out. Why stay married?
Threatened to hurt my animals flattening my tires.
Boy, if ever I could pick a therapist; you'd be the guy.
Besides being knowledgeable, your one of the most non judgemental person I've ever heard of.
Yes, the rumination. I could literally see my husband doing this. Often in the garden, quietly going about his work of planting etc. I would see him busy and quiet, thinking, thinking, thinking - and later on find things that he deliberately damaged - my things - over and over and over again, and they were obviously damaged by someone, but I would never ever actually see him do the damage - it was all done quietly and secretly and scarily. But no one else could have done it and I was always shocked to see what he was willing to do and when I opened the washing machine one day - there he had broken/busted the strong plastic agitater, like pieces were cut out of it in shapes, and that was the final straw for me along with the bad temper to me in endless roundabout argumentative stressful conversations. It was like he was planning all the time what to do to me through my things.
And as a footnote even though she lives in this town I would never confront her about these things because she would actually find satisfaction in knowing that even now I am still being hurt by things she did, since in the end I had to go "no contact." Not to mention she would Gaslight me and probably share with her flying monkeys what a ridiculous and awful thing I had accused her of. In other words, I'd only be getting in line for more abuse and I would not get the confirmation that would provide closure. But gradually I will find my own closure, because it's like cleaning out an abscess. Someday it will be fully clean and will scar over nicely.
Oh my gosh!!
Why would he damage your things? My husband does after argument or if I ignore him. He damaged most of my property in one day because I slept separately as I found out he is still having an affair.. I left he finished the affair but when we argue, I find my things damaged!! Behind my back or missing
that's exactly what I am dealing with now in terms of a vindictive narcissist whom I am in a lease with. while for the most part, I can ignore her behavior unless it threatens my safety or health. When she, out of spite, started to tamper with my property and just noticed this morning some of my belongings gone, that's where I draw the line. I know I will probably be sorry when I threaten to haul her in court legally for messing with my stuff, that the likely reaction will be more spite/revenge to point I will need to move and pay additional rent. But I also know there is a good chance she will escalate her spite anyway and may try and get away with alot more damage/theft. As Doc said, no productive way to deal with them unfortunately. One thing I noticed with her is her life is driven by fear, any threat that can cost her money gets her attention even if brief reprieve, and she does not have very good street smarts and that's the card I've learned to play.
@@lifeunleashed I've experienced the same type behavior. What I did was to rent a storage space only in my name and then put my things in there to get them out of her reach until the lease expired. Then when I am no longer on the hook for the lease, end it. At least that way my things quit disappearing. Until that time, my things, especially things that meant something to me would just disappear.
I’m the scapegoat in my family and I have long suspected the flying monkeys of the ringleader narcs are afraid of them. I’m the only one in the family who has really had the courage and strength to stand up to them. Recently their abuse put me in the ER with systolic blood pressure around 200. I was in a hypertensive crisis and in serious trouble. In the process of ending contact with all of them permanently. It has become a matter of life & death.
Good video, Dr. Grande.
FiFi - My health is suffering, too. I'm planning legal action and paralyzed with fear. The suffering is UNBEARABLE. I HAVE to go to court to expose their slander before the end of 2019. I only care about my 3 grandchildren. 4 yrs. now, cut of from me. We had a DEEP, DEEP bond of love.
Martha O'Kelley, I am so sorry to hear that. I hope it all works out for you and your grandchildren. They sure will make us sick. Please take care of yourself. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Fifi La Fleur s
I'm so sorry that you've been going through this. Yes, well done for going through the process of ending contact with them permanently. Yes, it really is a matter of life and death for some isn't it, and I'm sorry it is that way for you. God bless and keep you safe, stay close to Him
Jack Goodings, thank you. I will... 😥🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😥
I have learnd so much about narcissism from you, and it have really turnde my life around. Now I understand why I suffered so badly during my childhood and still are. My father was malignant and my mother covert. I can’t change the past but it helps to understand and I can finally (at age 49) strart my healing process. All my thanks to you❣️
Same with me my friend. Hope we could share our stories.
Better without a family.
@@dorothypettijohn6228 friends are the family that you pick.
Im starting to heal at 80 years of age. What a relief, i plan to live another 120 years. Here is the interesting thing. I am a boss, always been a boss but raged against by every lover, husband, except for one. As a matter of fact, I have a STEM brain. But always open to listen to a different opinion. I am as perfect as I can be according to my raging mother. I am really tired of it all.
My parents are too and dad is -Perfectionist and I tore stuff ,and mother is a dark empathetic kind of person likely BPd/CPSDT from childhood as I heard it. I was 16 when I got pregnant and she made me go to counseling. However , the counselor Thought i was ok and asked her to remain in counseling. I asked her just last yr how it went (I’m 56 and she’s 84). Hee response was “ I stayed for 6 months and didn’t want to be on medication so I quit. Lol I laughed loud and reminded her about all the Greek alcohol she drank with her diet dr peppers I mean darn! That generation sucked as parents.
Finally after 56 years with narc parents, who never liked me, I made the call and said I can’t visit anymore. She went off the rails,but when I said I was afraid my father would kill me, crickets. Bye bye f@#$& narc trauma, I survived and am an amazing person now. Jesus has saved me!
Think Forurself; Jesus saved me also and I'm free from those in my family circle who are toxic narcissists.
Good for you! I can relate x
Amen...... Good for you!
Zee Bee
Healing takes a long time... to some extent, lifelong.
Yeah, the book of Jude and i thinn 2 Peter 3; or is it 1 Peter 3,speaks on similar people withinthe church that do these very things. They "worm" their way into churches and in other places "prey on women."
Its terrible but, like many times,the Bible makes aware and I'm grateful it does.
Narcs die with their lies and deceptions.. Thank you Dr. Grande, your articles are very helpful and relevant..
It’s a scary thought!
You are so right
Spot on.
I'm in Divorce proceedings, and all of these traits I have found to be true in my soon to be ex husband. I saw them during our marriage, and now in our divorce journey. I'm relying more and more on my attorney to navigate the situation. There's no reasoning with a vindictive narcissist.
Thanks for your content!
They are delusional and live in a fantasy world and in an illusion
👏👏👏
I have a daughter 37 years old that is a Narcissist and it's heartbreaking.
Extremely
Have been married to narcissist for 30 yrs. Tried to figure out what was wrong with him. Had luck one day listening to you. Bingo, the light went on. That's him. So glad I flnally knew whsy I was fighting. Thank you for all your knowledge. I keep in touch with you each day. I am selling house and getting away. I don't talk to him, just stay in my room mostly. No contact...important.
I used to be friends with this one woman. I started to recognize the gas lighting. She would complain about having to drop out of school and quit her job because she didn't have childcare and couldn't afford a sitter. I felt sympathy for her and offered to watch her children so she wouldn't have to quit trying to change her life for the better. Or so I thought. One morning she showed up at 7am and I was surprised, an hour earlier than usual. I asked her why she was so early and she said with a straight face "I always come at this time". Other times she would claim she was working late at the police station because there were so many accidents on those days. I had called the office and they were closed. I called the next day to inquire about extended hours and they said they don't stay past closing. I was watching her kids up to 13 hours a day, 8 to 10 days in a row for 10$ a day. She would come home from school and work and not even come to get her kids. I took her baby for a walk and saw she was home and thought oh she's coming any minute.... Not so. Ignored calls, etc. I can go on. There's plenty more to her. When I tried to talk to her about these issues, she suddenly turned on me, and one by one our friends started hating me. She has even gone after my children, one of them being special needs. She's tried to have me evicted, and has gone as far as filing false claims to children's aid society. Her flying monkeys utter threats, and participate in a huge smear campaign against me. For three years my family has been subjected to this. Still to this day. Her and her cohorts against me and my children. Making life at our home unbearable. Vandalism, harassment, death threats, assault threats, etc. Now I want to take things to a physical level. Yet I'm not a narc. I'm an abuse survivor. I'm defensive of myself and my family.
It's low life trash like that that makes us feel like no good deed goes unpunished & puts us off from helping someone in need in the future.
I learned to never have a relationship with someone you feel sorry for because they take advantage of your good nature!
This video is spot-on. I was married to a narcissist who is also paranoid to the nth degree. A nasty combination! We have been divorced for 8 years and the scorched-earth policy of hers continues unabated. She is quite prepared to destroy herself in order to hurt me.
She is such a complete little idiot!
Is her name Amber 😉
The most helpful presentation on the vindictive narcissist I've seen to date. They will pursue vindication regardless of self destruction. It's pitiful to experience. Thank you so much Dr Grande for an EXCELLENT presentation, I look forward to your future work.
Xnarc is covert when sober, grandiose when drunk, and vindictive because I have gone no contact. It's very exhausting.
"They are careful about seeking revenge against superiors" (3:23). This is because they know that this might jeopardize their ability to keep their charade against others going.
And their games. They must always have a context favorable to their mind games.
abuse ot power because of non sense, hurt people hurt people
This is weird: I just paused the video at exactly 3:23 bc that precise point has been such a theme on my life with these dirtbags.
SO glad to figure out why I was miserable for YEARS in my last job. I always did my best to look good for the practice and take great care of my patients. But my boss would be all friendly, then write me up for everything, all vindictive and small. She micromanaged and undermined and gaslighted me and tried to isolate me from other professionals... until I thought I was horrible at my job... I stopped trying to talk with her... there was NO talking it out... I was walking around terrified, because she was in a power position and all her superiors were completely unaware of this malicious side of her and would never believe my word over hers. (Employees of course equally terrified and could not talk.) HR was genuinely shocked at some of the things I finally told them when I quit, and asked why I hadn't said anything before. Really?? One final tempest in a teapot and I finally quit. Best decision of my life, and my colleagues and a ton of my patients have bombarded the office with questions about where I went and how they can contact me. That has really touched me... and I hope it burns her, too. Happy old me is back!
Best authority on different kinds of narcissism I’ve heard on RUclips. I always knew when my ex narc would be prowling for new supply... right after I stood up to him.
A great deal of the stress of being, or having been, in the sphere of a narcissist is their thoroughly baffling motivations and actions. These people truly think in a completely different way. There’s such a great need for credible information on this topic. Please consider providing more narcissism videos.
Fantastic analysis. It is too simple to say someone is narcissistic there are too many types and as you say these things are on a continuum and also swing back and forth between covert and overt. I also like the clarity given between machiavellianism and narcissism. The devil is in the detail and that is why I always learn something from your videos and that is why I try and watch as many as I can.
My mother is a diagnosed narc, a high level one. She's always been very vengeful. Dad, also a narc, is too but she is much worse.
She beat me up mentally and physically when I was in high school and I escaped..went to school and told a teacher. She took action. I'd taken a Diaries course and they already saw abuse in my diary entries. I was taken out of our home for my safety and lived elsewhere until college. I was thriving in college which really bothered my mom. She blamed me endlessly for her being busted for abuse (the authorities knew better) so in my Sophomore year she made dad stop paying for my school. I was left homeless and couldn't afford school anymore (it was an expensive private college). She laughed and told me I wasn't welcome home because she wanted privacy with my dad. He was too weak to stand up to her. I lived on friends' couches, scrambled to get a crappy old car and work multiple jobs, with no furniture once I got a cheap place of my own. She couldn't care less.
I struggled and worked hard at menial jobs while building my freelance art business. My parents made fun of me and mocked me. I got free therapy from clinics because I also battled/battle C-PTSD as I tried to figure it all out. She hated everything about me, mocking and attacking me for anything, refusing to let me do laundry at their house, etc. I was conscientious and not trouble to them but she hated me anyways. She hated my boyfriends, any achievements, my looks, you name it. She stole my things (awards I won, anything she liked), belittled and talked crap about me to her surrogate "daughter", a coworker flying monkey who hung on every word she said. I kept my head down and worked hard, fueled by her wanting me to fail. In time, my knowledge and business grew. To my surprise I grew stronger and people liked my art. My success made both parents hate me. I kept at it. It's about making money and being free from them. I lived/live in fear of being broke and at anyone's mercy. Now I'm 57. My business thrives online and I am ok. My parents are old, angry and only contact me to pretend to be friendly to keep supply for a rainy day. I stopped calling and visiting two years ago after they cruelly attacked me and compared me as a "loser" to their rich friends's grown "do nothing" narcissistically inclined average kids (loved and educated because their parents cared). Whatever. They wanted to destroy and get back at me for not being controllable. Nope. My business thrives and she can't sabotage me anymore. I am at peace. They aren't. Never will be. Always desperate for supply. I'm an introvert and love my peace and solitude. I win.
I think this video is the single most important thing I've ever watched. You've explained vendictive narcissism so succinctly that I can see now why every attempt at reason I've made in my own situation has utterly failed. I'm going to stop trying now.
Thank you for all the knowledge you've imparted here. Your videos are an excellent educational resource.
This is probably the most accurate description of what I have had to go through since I divorced my now ex wife. I watched her 2000 vindictive things to other women that had crossed her during the course of our 20 year marriage. Since I divorced her she has tried to destroy my reputation in town, she has call the police at least once a month. She is accused me of murder, money laundering, drug dealing, and child molestation, as recently as LAST WEEK on my 50th birthday. I must have the biggest investigation file of anybody in Florida.
This is so true with my family member. Sometimes I forget how horrible it felt to be on the receiving end of this. I am 34 and still trying to get myself together because I’ve been manipulated to believe that I can’t survive on my own. I’m beginning to realize I’ve held myself back because I’ve believed that I was incompetent & cannot succeed past a certain point. I’ve “dimmed my light” so to speak, in order to avoid making this particular person feel insecure or to not trigger jealousy. Ugh 😣 it’s hard to admit this, luckily I’m in therapy & I’m gonna get out of this situation as soon as I can.
Thank you for sharing this. I needed to know I’m not the only one. 🦋
Your not alone
Turn your back and walk away. You may be related by blood but as in a family member have they ever treated you like one? If not feel no guilt. I realized I had false hope for decades for the 3 narcs in the ‘family’ I grew up with. Mum passed and since she was ‘out of the house for good’ they started up their vile toxic abusive behavior towards me specifically, just like they did as we were growing up together. I’ve cut contact. Someone has to be the adult and realize I have to respect myself coz they certainly have never and will never. Take care and no guilt!👍🏼
Have you heard of "soul distancing"?
The ten sign posts are:
2:09. Dominance
2:57 power
3:50. Manipulation
5:04 Revenge
6:10. Sloppy
7:39. Rumination
8:12. Revenge plot
9:29. Emotional deregulation
10:25. Victim hood
11:22 Attempts with another vindictive narcissist
Thank you so very much Dr Grande. I missed you since I’ve been working a temp job, but this is exactly, identically an experience I had with a female coworker! For 3 months she caused utter brain chaos and I didn’t know how to communicate with her. Nothing worked. I gave notice and when she found out she said to me ‘you might not like me, but the entire world loves me’. I never once said I didn’t like her, but anytime I was praised for something I did well by a superior, this woman would attack me viciously. I seriously started to wonder if I was losing my mind and acting improperly and questioned myself deeply. I’m so grateful to you. Your timing has saved me weeks or possibly more of wondering and worrying! 😘
Thank you, I left a work environment I was sharing with someone who met this criteria and it took me about 2 years to trust people in the work place again. Not only me but his, at the time ‘flying monkeys’, had him turn on them also once I left. Basically if you did well and achieved or had something he was jealous about you would get anonymous cowardice letter or emails sent to superiors or even the police to get you into trouble. I had to go to counselling for a couple of years to help me recover and realise the world isn’t such a bad place. Thank you for defining this person here, you don’t realise how much closure this has given me.
When you encounter a narcissist, run like the wind as far away from them as possible. Do not get involved with them on any level. Never engage with a narcissist. Avoid them at all costs. If you discover that your boss is one, find another job. If you find that your significant relationship is narcissistic, split from them immediately, without discussion. No contact.
Yep but we all pay the price
Well, it's not always that easy. Sometimes they're your parents, siblings, or even your own children. And sometimes they manipulate you so well, that you cannot tell what they are until you're in too deep.
True. I escaped one recently. No contact for almost 2 weeks. Insane personality. Really made me feel I am getting slowly mad. Now the life is so much peaceful since he's gone from my life💞
Split from them before there is any children born into the relationship.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🖤🙏
It often takes a good deal of time to recognize I have been HAD, again, by a narcissist. THEN I dump and run. I was brought up by two narcissists. It takes me time to recognize all their various forms. I am so used to them I don’t even recognize them. It’s been a lifelong struggle. I love learning from these podcasts.
I wish I would've found out this information decades ago. My father is a narcissist, I don't know what type exactly. He was also an undiagnosed bi-polar until I was 22. I ended up marrying a VN, vindictive type, and your video is so spot on, its eerie. I walk on eggshells constantly, it is very stressful. I find it almost funny-but not, how people say "just leave" without any clue about what exactly that entails. Thank you for your videos, I'm learning so much.
Once you tell them what you need in the relationship, that is what they withhold.
To any one reading this, I would like to say from my own experience, if you are friends with one of these people or you are dating one of these people, dump them and move on with your life. The pain they cause you is not worth it and they will not change. God Bless anyone on here that has had to endure the pain, from a narcissist . To mothers and fathers who endured the pain, my heart breaks for you. I walked in your shoes but will never allow it again. It is very very hard, to except that the child you gave birth to is so ill, and its just as hard to except all the broken hearts they gave you and did not care at all that they broke your heart. Its hard knowing you gave birth to a beautiful baby, and one day the only way you can survive is to totally let them go. God Bless any one in those shoes.
You are the first person ive seen talk about child narcs, thank you, I can relate, its devastating
Isn't narcissism caused by bad parenting? Perhaps you need to assess yourself or your spouse first.
@@Squidlark I take it that you are speaking from experience because YOUR parents failed you
@@cathygray9092 Deflection instead of introspection. Typical. My sympathies to your poor child.
@@Squidlark My sympathies go out to your family and to you. I hope you find God soon. You need him in your heart. You putting judgements on people and having the nerve to insult people, who you have never walked in their shoes tells me you know nothing about God. I hope you find him soon. I will not reply to any more that you say. You need a punching bag, it may take your anger issues away and buy a bible, so you can learn about Gods word. I hope you find him soon. He is the judge of people. Not u !
Thanks for this one! I can see this pattern now in my ex. I couldn’t understand why she used to come home from work in tears because someone ( a customer) gave her a hard time at the checkout. I now realise she couldn’t take any criticism whatsoever! I’ve also been on the receiving end of her rage ,when she perceived I was somehow putting her down, when I wasn’t at all. 😬😣
I have been a victim of narcissists and I feel very vengeful and as a result of the trauma ruminate a lot but I am no narcissist 🥴.
💯The same, some of these vids contradict themselves because trauma victims ruminate and feel anger 4 what the narcissist does which is basically calling u a vulnerable narcissist
@Siobhan Fogarty : So true I have much reason for vengeance on a couple of people ,but I have well moved on in life and it only comes to mind once in a blue moon when someone or something reminds me of the time & pain that was wasted with them.
The feeling usually is just fleeting because I have so many other things in life that I am either responsible for or that I am enjoying ,or even just mellowed out with friends or myself that I don't care or even have time to even recall most of it all.
That's pretty common, but at least you understand what is happening. The narc doesn't. They feel entitled to revenge.
The difference is that a narcissist will act upon it in a way that hurts others. if you channel your anger into something else you’re probably all good.
The best revenge is living the best life and as free from them as possible. So far, so good here.
So accurate in describing my mother. WOW. She is unrelenting and now suing me. You are so right, years of intermittent abuse and I would always look past her flaws and forgive or avoid her periodically. But once it got unrelenting I had no choice but to cut her out of my life. This is her exactly. Lord help me.
my mother .. she’ll never stop 🤦♀️
great segment 👍
they can't stop it's who they are and it has a name: EVIL
My mother too. Never going back.
So sorry. I can't imagine
@@overcomer4196 I agree on evil. My daughter in law. She's evil and waits to take revenge. I worry about my granddaughter and my son.
@@susansmith2039 I’m in the same position. Now, I’ve learned she’s been telling lies about us. 🙏✝️❤️
Your description of the vindictive narcissist validates my own thoughts and feelings about a particularly stressful situation at work. I've had a lot to think about, with so much going on there. The timing couldn't have been better, many thanks for all your good work.
I have not had any contact with my daughter or sister in over 22 years. unfortunately both are overt!! the business they have both chosen supply them with supply. both endorse each others bad behavior. stay away from narcissists !!!!!
This video describes my previous relationship so well.
Was with my ex for 9 months and for 7 of those months, we constantly fought over his obsession with my roommate not saying hello to him the first month in our relationship. He only came over a handful of times the first 2 months. Our final argument was him trying to convince me for 5 hours on what I can do and say to my roommate to give “give them a taste of their own medicine” and stop being friends with them to save our relationship. An international trip to meet his family and a trip to Vegas with mine, we argued about my roommate and other things, I was given the silent treatment many times. My roommate had no clue, they were just existing and trying to survive school. Even when I brought it up to my roommate later in my relationship, my roommate apologized and worked on making it better. My ex was still upset because i didn’t do it the right way and I should’ve made my roommate feel bad and disrespected just as he felt the entire relationship.
In his words, “I chose my roommate over my boyfriend” but I chose not to be controlled, take “revenge” and be mean on his behalf.
He sounds incredibly toxic. At some point, he would take out his anger and vengefulness on some real or perceived slight that YOU had done to him, so you were right in ending the relationship before you became the target.
A very insightful account of the vindictive narcissist. And the difficulties in dealing with one! Thank you Dr G.
😉
I refuse to be a flying monkey. I refuse to be dragged down to their misery. No matter how much one tries to lift them up, they seem to be comfortable in their misery. Glad you put out this video. Thank you.
Lack of insight.. oh boy! Ain't that the truth!!
Zero accountability... well, why would they need any?? It's all clearly their nemesis' fault!!
Passive resistance, passive ineffectiveness, especially in regards to something their bothersome scapegoat considers important or holds dear!! Elated, that their bothersome scapegoat is beginning to have a normal reaction of frustration & anger, in regards to the abnormal situation the scapegoat find themselves in.. RINSE & REPEAT......
THANK YOU Dr Grande! I adore your work & dedication!
Organising my new house & paying forward old belongings & buying new ,, has kept me from your voice of reason & soothing presentations, I've still not caught up on some of your recent vlogs.. time to catch up while soaking in the bath 😂😂😂😂😂
The Narcissist is the one Preying on others... so they would be Initiating the Insult or Offense.
Revenge is a Reaction to an Offense but the Offense could be a reaction to the Narcissist's behaviour...
And then they do the D.A.R.V.O.
The revenge a narcissist seeks is very often a result of an IMAGINED offense against them. My narc punished me for years over an affair that never happened at all.
As always this was incredible helpful, thank you so much Dr. Grande. You described my cousin word for word; she was childish, always the victim (even though she sexually abused me), couldn’t tolerate any amount of criticism even when approached very politely, set double standards and excused her bullying behaviour as being necessary because I “haven’t had as tough of a life” and needed “to learn”. There was never any way to rationalize with her or have a civil disagreement, and eventually she ‘snapped.’ So glad she is no longer in my life, and that I now have the knowledge and am gaining the tools to protect myself and my daughter from those kind of toxic behaviours. Thank you again and take care 🙏
How often would we see this pattern in domestic abusers who insist on controlling their partner/family and become violent when resisted?
Sadly, my one daughter (38), my one sister (80), and my ex and his wife all grouped against me and not allowing me to see my grandchildren. I have NO-ONE, I AM 63 AND AND SO HURT it is unbearable. I have been nothing but GOOD to these people.
Martha O'Kelley I can relate. 4 Grands and mother against me...And again...I have been good to them all their lives
God Bless you Martha. I know the pain you live with. You feel alone but you are not totally alone. God is with you and you are not the only good mother and good grand mother that has to live with the pain of not seeing those children you love so much I am in the same boat as you and I know how much it hurts My only child daughter , I am in the same boat Martha and I am telling you this, because its not your fault. Please remember that. I took my pain to the Lord, it was all I had left. I found a Church, not a religion, a church that I felt good in and related to the pastor, and that is how I was able to move on with my life. I always miss my grand children but I except there is nothing I can do today. I hope when they are grown I will get a chance to be in their life. What was done to you is what these heartless sick people do. I will never go any where where I would see her as long as I live. There is no cure for her and all she would give me is more pain. I am older then you Martha. You can stop hurting so bad. with the help of God and prayers. And when you think of her, tell satan to get behind you. God is with you
I am 70 in similar state of strife. My adult nephews have "drunk the kool-aid" and spoken against me, as in your case I have done nothing wrong. The Vindictive Narc busies herself smearing my character. It's so destructive for the next generations to not have us at all. Find peace and pray for them, I believe things will improve for you. This is truly a thing we cannot correct on our own.
It took me YEARS to realize that when my husband and best friend did really mean things to me, it was always tied to me attempting to either set a boundary or do self care. Once, when I was on a 4 day trip with my best friend, I got up on the last morning and decided to get coffee and watch the news in the hotel lobby and let her and her daughter shower first. (She doesn't drink coffee and doesn't watch the news.) When I returned, I took my turn in the shower. Unbeknownst to me, she was angry that I hung out in the lobby and called the bellhop while I was in the shower to pick up our luggage, which was an hour earlier than our agreed upon checkout time. I was so confused and when we got in the car, I asked her when the schedule changed, but she just clamed up and refused to explain herself. (The toxic person's unwillingness to explain their actions/vindictive retaliation is a tattle-tail sign of what it truly is, and enhances the confusion over the event.) I did realized that I should not ever travel with her again, but it took me years to fully understand how controling, vindictive and toxic she really is.
I’m currently nearing the end of a relationship with a vindictive narcissist. I really love him and I believe he loves me but he’s just too damaged to participate in a relationship. He doesn’t want to break up with me but he also refuses to speak to me which doesn’t make any sense. When I tell him I feel like he hates me he says that he doesn’t.
Regardless, knowing that his behavior has nothing to do with me is really freeing and I can take responsibility for my issues on being attracted to such a frustrating personality.
Why are you attracted to him? I guess after 50 years of terrible relationships and 2 narcissistic parents, I find it's so much better to be alone. I can spot these narcissists a mile away now!
I always find it strange when I hear a man being difficult in a relationship. Men are very very easy to please and yet in my experience women go out of their way to make sex unobtainable. Men are only with women for sex as we have our friends who are much better company.
@@Stringwar men are very easy to please? 🤣🤣
@@WinningFace If you don't believe it then you've never been with one.
Run!
This was a great video. Very informative. I’m stuck in a workplace full of these freaks. They have destroyed the company that I work for so bad that now It is hanging by a thread. God bless everyone here. Smitty.
Thank you 🙏 for another brilliant analysis of narcissism and thank you 🙏 for explaining a concept I hadn’t heard of before, Vindictive Narcissism. The penny has just dropped for me in what type of narcissism my sister suffers from. I’d always thought of her as a Covert narcissist up to this point and from what you have described, she is. But I now realise where her capacity for vindictiveness comes from and how she is able to turn on anyone whom she cannot control. Her capacity for revenge is like a bottomless pit. Once crossed she switches into revenge mode and no amount of reasoning works. In my experience reasoning fuels her resolve to maintain herself as the victim which is an odd situation to be in. Her favourite method of revenge is to use the silent treatment whilst at the same time getting her flying monkeys to either attack you or also use silent treatment.
I’ve often said that being around my sister feels like being bullied by the school bully. I’ve decided that the silent treatment is not a strong enough description to describe this type of punishment towards me because it goes on for too long. She hasn’t spoken to me for over 5 years, which is a long time for silent treatment. Interestingly one of my late aunties used to do the same, in fact the longest period that she didn’t speak to her only son was for 22 years. It’s incredible isn’t it? My late mother used the same punishment as her weapon of choice. My late father had BPD and couldn’t tolerate the silent treatment and so even though he could be violent and controlling towards her, I noticed it was she who had the ultimate control over him.
And me - I got the hell out dodge at the age of 18 and didn’t look back. I’m 57 years old now and after decades of healing from my once significant Codependency and Anxiety, I lead a full and healthy life away from my family of origin.
I find these videos to be fascinating. I only wish I’d been able to have access to them in my younger years. It would have helped me enormously.
Another excellent video 🙏👏👏👏🙏
"BRAVO" Ruth.... I left when I was 18 but came back 6 times... I am now here, but am planning on leaving for good.
I too believe I was codependent and had anxiety because I couldn't figure this out...
I now know this video describes the person in my life is just that V.N. ... so I'll move on and accept this.
I love these clinical videos!!! Dr. Grande is so smart and so logical and the delivery of these very involved and in-depth concepts is always clear and easy to understand. I am shocked how Dr. Grande can concisely state every aspect of a diagnosis and the results they engender in human relationships. I remain so grateful for Dr. Grande's videos!!!
It's breathtaking watching them self-destruct just for a moment's revenge!
still waiting for that "self-destruct" after her revenge - I don't think they all do 'self-destruct' they just get more puffed up thinking they WON! they got you!!! haha!!! final destruction is when they take their last breath and wake up in HELL!
Oooohhhh, I would absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to watch this happen to the narc that won't leave me alone!!! Cannot be overstated.
My ex self destructed when I did the 180 technique (similar to grey rock but designed for dealing with cheaters). The victory was short lived because he turned his efforts towards our daughter. He hates me so much he abuses her in attempts to alienate her from me. It's sickening. To this day he still justifies it all by claiming that I cheated on him, something he knows full well never happened. He is the one who cheated with his best friends wife ... and somehow in his mind his best friend and I are to blame. It's been almost ten years and he is still trying to rewrite history. His quest for revenge against my non-existent infedility ruined his life and our daughter's. She is still trying to get his approval, and I just hope she escapes his manipulations and recovers like I did.
Mine self-destructed and sexually abused my child in front of me, knowing he would go to jail. He did it anyway to inflict the harm upon our mother-daughter bond which he has (I suspect) resented and wish to disintegrate & dominate from day 1.
@Saphyr S. and you find that funny? I'm confused.
Dr Grande-THIS is another key piece your videos have added to the generational “mosiac” of narcissism i have been sorting for a year as now a 74yo disabled target of a 42yo daughter who since a horrid delivery where she was delayed leaving the birth canal then once freed was Apgar 1.3 and nurse had whispered to colleagues “Oh, we have LIFE.” when all had thought i had a past-term stillborn killing me on the table… i was coached that how this trauma might manifest over time was impossible to predict…. and as my 12th pregnancy but only second and final survivor…. my diligent monitoring of her progresses, but also notable, delays required me as a suddenly single mom when she was in Kindergarten (big sister golden child is 4 years older) I’ve been on top of every inch of raising her through a morphing through mental illness/developmental problems/promiscuity/alcohol & drug addictions but now sober/covert to overt to malignant to arriving at vindictive narcissist Sept 2021 in a stunning finale (ty for this video) where she manipulated her sister to latch onto her and agree to a sudden no-contact-with-mom pact as the “grown women” I’m now at fault for thinking that they are still little girls, don’t show them unconditional love, etc hooking that golden child she was increasingly envious of as if a rival and jealous of any time she saw me do anything with just her sister as they were growing up with just me parenting and supporting them. She’s super cunning now and ruthless. She scored, last fall in time to sabotage our trio of Virgo birthdays we’ve always honored as a combo, by separating her sister away and initiating their joint no-contact. Shes always used being the victim with her sister, with her partners in 3 committed relationships, all bosses… and has convinced her sister to align with her since they are the surviving generation that deserves to have a life now.
…whew…. I didn’t think i could write this much of it out! But … although I’ve been binge-watching at least a half-dozen narc experts to sort out how family personalities have been circling and influencing one another… once you hit VINDICTIVENESS here, I finally saw that only one person in the entangled relationships (that also include my father and then theirs, as shades of narcissism) hit that degree of dark ruthlessness. And I’m the one she must triumph. I get it now. But it doesn’t get more tragic, however i am able to let go forever, of maybe both, to save my home, modest money, and use whats left of my own life to live without mentally ill predators. Weeping for myself though. And the babies i once bore in 1975 and 1979.
Ive never clung to them yearning to keep them for myself. The 4 generations of the family tree is thick with addiction, big mental illness, abuses, incest, financial “illness”, deception, etc. Ive done my very best understanding all that both daughters have faced in almost complete opposite versions of narcissism and my heart is broken for all three of us because i can see and understanding how we all arrived at this point… but it crossed the line where i now stand my ground. Orchestrating a premature conservatorship attempt on me, grab my assets, and convince others its time for a nursing home as if i cant care for myself, i live “alone”, (wtf? its not illegal!) and id be “better off” in a facility with new friends my own age… the “care” to be funded by the assets i nearly killed myself to scratch together for over 40 years while raising them.
I hope putting it out there helps liberate you some more. It's very hard going no contact with close family. I still feel that I want to say some final things. Not so much for her to understand but to just hear the words.
Another topic that would be extremely beneficial would be “How to deal with narcissists in business negotiations when they have clear leverage” and you can’t avoid it
For example, do you stroke their ego to achieve your goal in the meeting? do you ignore their narcissistic and egocentric remarks? do you simply withdraw completely?
I ask because there seems to be an over representation of narcissists in the entrepreneurial social realm.
Marlina Dykema Hey thanks for the reply, but I am talking about Business negotiations. Not worker HR relations.
Being disagreeable I've found tends to be the very first flag that presents with almost all narcisisstic people, arguing about EVERYTHING for the sake of pointless argument.
A few of them know how to hide this well and can seem to agree with everything and they mimic your thought process about everything but they are quite often the most vindictive of all in a very covert way.
You have shone a brilliant light on vindictive narcissism
I was a shift leader in a call center and I took on other duties as well. One morning, a female coworker smiled at me and a 30 year old brat threw an obnoxious temper tantrum over not getting all of the attention. I didn't feel it was my job to take it or customers place to hear it so I reported it to my supervisor. She accused me of judging and told me to leave him alone. I said nothing to him. I went to another supervisor about his behavior and when mine got word, she came in early just to harass me with extreme hatred about it putting words in my mouth making an all out show of her favoritism. She wouldn't allow me to say anything. It was so stressful, I was shaking. A week later, she fired me for mentioning him. When I reported the harassment to HR, they said they would look into it and get back to me. Crickets. Deafening silence. It was behind closed doors so she lied her way out of it. I learned later, he got my job as lead but was fired shortly after. Another employee reported his attitude and she had to save face. I did (as it was my job) and I was a criminal.
The same happened to me. It’s a double whammy when a colleague and supervisor team up! I’m better off that they didn’t renew my contract at year’s end; however, it was miserable to face it every day. Scary world.
most politicians and bankers are suffering this decease.
Yeah
Our Orange President
@uare you : Alert....Narc injury triggered.
@uare you: Gas lighting 101. Nice try bro.
@uare you : Typical. "You have no idea"...blah blah blah ..."deleted comments" (covering time tracks "never said that") , "judging" (shaming language).
Tells me to stop commenting (basically shut up/control/oppression) ,then accuses me of being a Narc...
Freaking straight outta the Covert Narc playbook.
Even your username is an accusation.
Yeah I think I'm doing just fine with this whole Narc thing.
I got your number bro : Narc 101.
Finally, something makes sense!! Would sadism also fall into this category? Ex, enjoying how their behaviors acutely hurt someone else, like sadistic taunting and torturing and neglect. Thank you for sharing your knowledge in these videos.
Hmmm....explains a majority of society behavior these days..
I wish it were just Trump but he's only a symptom of our ill society.
Society is collapsing
Watching these videos, my supervisor was a vindictive narcissist. I realize I am a vulnerable narcissist, and our boss was a Machiavellianistic. Our President, he could have been a psychiatrist, I’m now realizing, kept everyone in check. He protected me against them so I could have a job, which was important to me as a single mother. They hated this, people actually told me they were jealous of that. The HR lady even wrote that in a note to me. When he died, all hell broke loose. I took a few vacation days, and someone told me ‘Machiavelli’ was walking around saying he was going to fire me. I didn’t know why. I tried so hard on that job, and no one was ever happy.
Revenge, reminds me of a saying to the effect of When seeking revenge, prepare to dig two graves! 🤔
This was pure gold , Thank you so much for this DR, Describes these two perfectly, Making mountain out of mole hills, pulling everyone in to their, Drama, Quite competiton, Petty vendetta, Triangulating, manipulating, Influence, I'm glad I'm nothing like them, All praise to the most high :-) Peace, love and respect to you and everyone, Thank you universe, All glory and smiles to the most high :-)
I respectfully disagree to an extent. I feel that many individuals who have been victims of others that show traits of narcissism simply want to be free from them and are incredibly fearful of what can happen to others if that person isn’t held to some account. Especially if they are in charge of others’ lives that are vulnerable and are still actively doing those same things. I am sure some cases are like this but most people that I have met that have been victimized in any way mostly tend to obsess and ruminate over that NOT vengeance. It’s just telling others everything can then put them at risk as well. Just a point of view, I’m sure it’s not like that always. Thank you for your videos, I look forward to them always because the topics you discuss are very interesting and the resources you provide are helpful. Best wishes to everyone.
Gollum’s Lover this is a great point, if you are on the receiving end of this it’s very easy to slip into ruminating about how you will resolve it, making logical analysis of their sloppy onslaught which usually is insulting to anyone’s intelligence, the fact they use an ounce of truth and and ounce of believability is also infuriating as the rumination on the part of the victim of their behaviour is gaslit into believing they might be the one with the problem. Aaaarrrghgh they are so cowardly and vain.
Interesting seg,thanks for sharing your analysis always a pleasure hearing your thoughts 👍👍
Wow. You've described a few dangerous members of my family. Thank you for the clarification.
most I know are family, mine and my husbands. very sad. we are 2 empaths that found each other and have so much in common just now realizing how much after 40 years of marriage! wow. some of us are slow to realize what has been going on our whole lives. and it's very sad that all that time was wasted on narcs!
L.A.Stevens - they can do much damage to the good people :-( !
Great insights. "They are typically discovered in the long run." I hope you are right.
Dr. Grande is spot-on!!!!
Thank you
I'm No Contact and never have to explain or deal with any of their toxicity!!
I love myself and I'm very Happy and Healthy!
Narc free is the way to go, my friends!! 😄
Love to everyone!!
You are perfectly correct Ms. Loraine! ✌❤😊🙏
My mother is a vindictive narcissist. I haven’t spoken to her since she abandoned me in 1985. It was hard going from 15 years old to an adult in under a month, but now I look back and it was the best thing she ever did for me. She is a horrible person. No love lost.
All I want to do is get away from this type of people.This describes my sister to a T. I try my best not to have any contact with her.
I also have a problematic sister like this. She has been diagnosed as "bipolar". But I don't think bipolar people go out of their way to hurt others...
Miss E She could be both. It seems to me that NPD or psychopathy can sometimes "hide behind" a diagnosis of a disorder like bipolar or paranoid PD.
@@OnsceneDC people can suffer multiple comorbid diagnoses
@@catspajamas2961 EXACTLY! She's received treatment for bipolar for years, and has even been hospitalized. But so far after years of treatment, she is no better. So methinks it's something else...
Same. I know my friends sister played victim in court for alleged abuse by her parents but there's no evidence. She simply wants complete control and custody of her first child and strip away any communication between her and her family. Long story short, she's a bitch with no empathy.
I dealt with a vindictive narcissist over a decade ago. She tried every trick in the book by filing numerous false police reports with three police depts saying I did every heinous thing imaginable to her.
I was later told by someone in law enforcement that I handled all this quite well. I never ever responded through social media or email which really pissed her off. These narcissists need attention all the time to make people believe their bs lies. It was eventually figured out how crafty she was being. She got fined and arrested.
I knew better than to give attention to the gaslighting etc. I never got arrested. I kept my cool on the exterior. I was seeing a psychologist anyway during that time which helped me talk about my frustrations with this internally.
Even though I was completely innocent, she went as far as telling lies to my family and friends. I no longer have family or friends as a result. It went so far. Even worse her son who was a child back then is an adult in the military now. I found out that she told him lies about me. He wanted to come after me. It didn't work out for him. I was notified by law enforcement about him and a plot to harm me. He was arrested and kicked out of the military. She was nothing but a female monster who destroys innocent lives with her lies.
Yup they’re cop callers. Good at playing the victim
Sounds like a psychopath to me, lying troublemaker.
You're a great teacher! Iama also glad I found your site.
Thanks!
Thanks for addressing this type of narcissism. I was literally taking notes. These types definitely don't learn from their immature behaviour and are poisonous to relationships. When confronted by someone coolly and calmly they are typically caught off guard but they'll deflect and gas light despite it being obvious they're avoiding the issue of accountability or owning negative behaviours.
I recognise a few individuals who, due to a past tendency - decades ago, thankfully! - to 'people-please' as a result of narcissistic parents, I let into my life as so-called "friends" and did I ever regret this!
Vindicative narcissists use others and will seek people out who they admire and who are willing to be their 24/7 unpaid personal 'counsellors' whilst actively resenting the fact the other individual has, as they view it, 'the power' to be in such a position. It's ridiculous and emotionally so very immature.
Also, you're right - they don't learn from past mistakes, errors in judgment, or relationship issues. They dwell
on what they feel others have done to injure them in some way or another and become preoccupied with revenge even at their own expense. And they continue to repeat the same errors and resent even a very tactful explanation of such negative habits.
Frankly, if these vindictive narcissists can be avoided or confronted and
the relationships ended (by the non-narcissist), it makes for a much easier and happier life.
If you really want to trigger a narcissist, ask them why they have to put everyone else down to feel better about themselves.
Thanks again for your insights, Dr Grande. There seem to be so many strains to NPD that for the layperson it can be difficult to make a proper assessment of who they might be dealing with. These people are certainly damaged and have the ability to inflict damage on others.
My brother had these traits and he lived to regret his behavior the last 2 years of his life
I throughly enjoy your videos😊 Your presentation, voice, demeanor is perfect and I trust and learn so much from you. Thank you for sharing with us!
That is such a nice thing to say - thank you so much :)
@@DrGrande I'm really enjoying this video and I was wondering whether if you have any others where you're discussing the type of narcissists who are miserable and want to drag others into their misery rather than over come their misery ?
My brother was driving the car and I was in the passenger seat. It was winter and there was snow on the ground and the roads were wet, not frozen but it was a hilly area with lots of curves. My brother took both hands off the steering wheel and continued driving. I was freaked out and frightened. Please keep your hands on the steering wheel. He ignored me. He eventually put his hands back on the steering wheel and we arrived at the main street of the little town. I went into a cafe and called my parents and asked them to pick me up. I wasn’t going to get back in the car with my brother. My brother told me I was making a big deal out of nothing.
Hi Dr. Todd! You do great work and I respect your dedication to RUclips and helping people! I hope one day I have the chance to do a video with you as I would love to chat!
My narcissist ex husband would would “ ruminate” constantly one issue from 12 yrs ago example I would get punished for 100s of times
I always called it "stewing". He would stew on something, and later call or text back and declare he thought about it and realized he was offended. Then demand it righted or there would be hell to pay. Always needed forgiveness for his toxic behavior and offenses, but would hold grudges on me from things over a decade ago. I'm not out yet. Getting healthier so I can get out with as little damage as possible bc we have a young child. I'm terrified, but also fed up.
Brandy C yea mine did the same as yours. I’ve been divorced 2 yrs. unfortunately still have to communicate because of my 10 yr old daughter. It’s so hard to leave that type of situations but day by day it gets better. I haven’t found another man yet but worked in getting emotionally healthy and had therapy to get to the root of my issues. He still treats me bad any chance he gets. But I live in peace now. I’m very lonely and still to this day think about how much I loved him and cry for the death of the marriage and how my daughter now is a product of divorce. But I know I would never ever be with him again. I’m looking forward to a healthy normal living relationship someday. Good luck I suggest you get out soon. It’s gonna be very painful in the beginning but it gets better I wasted 17 yrs. Don’t waste that many.
Brandy C and the younger the child the better for you to get out. That’s less damage to the child believe me. My daughter witnessed his behavior towards me . Sometimes I was like a doormat other times I had to fight back. Now it’s much better cause she doesn’t see fighting. And she told me she knows we are better apart and at least she doesn’t see us fight. I could have divorced am when she was 6 and tried to hung in there till she was almost 9. That was a mistake. Please trust me. The earlier the easier it is on the child
What did you do ?
@@blackwellbrooklyn6142 I pleaded with him to stop, I stayed quiet, I yelled back on few occasions in short: he would continue and rehash again on any other day. It’s been 3.5 yrs out of that hell and I’m at peace. But have one huge regret: I wish I had left him way earlier.
Flying Monkeys: My encounter with the covert narcissist they had six other people convinced I had done something to abuse them.
There is a lingering feature after encountering these people. It is like a kind of stain that somehow I took on some of their darkness. I was able to recover from what they did however it has left another lingering issue. How will I ever trust again ...
Oh my god I relate. I feel like they corrupted me too.
A person with these personalities can cause great harm in the workplace. What are the effective strategies.
You use the work grievance procedures if you are the victim. As stated they are so sloppy in their execution of revenge that it’s easy to catch them out. Just write everything down that happens, minute everything. Then present your evidence, following company policy to a tee, while ensuring you point out where company policy has not been followed by the vn. It’s a lot of work, but it’s possible and the odds are stacked in your favour. Even the stigma of an investigation puts a glass ceiling on their careers and stops them going on to do more untold harm. And if you are proven by investigation to be justified, the consequent recommendations for disciplinary for them will stop them in their tracks and they consequently resign, even before the recommendations come out to try to save face. Either way, you will rid yourself of them.
@@natorus I would also recommend what Lisa Schofield said. And, sadly, if necessary, be prepared to look for another job or to put up a bloody good fight at the highest leadership and legal levels. It can be exhausting, but in my experience it was worth it .. I still ended up having to accept 'voluntary redundancy' after going on sick for some time, and even though my career was, to a large degree, ruined, I received a very good financial reward and returned to my career 7 years later and held my head up high and set the record straight and the abuser had to face the fear of what I'd say or do, and between that time I was able to explore what I truly loved doing, and won an award for it and helped lots of other people, and changed as a person, became stronger .. and I don't miss the pressure and stress of that job and environment anyway. Whatever you do, the key thing is to keep squeaky clean, record everything, let others know you're recording it all, dig deep for courage and resilience, and stay firm and grounded to your truth .. and breathe !!
I tried all the policy stuff at work but place was riddled with narcissists and the organisation didn't want to know. The narcs just lied and as everything was done covertly or gaslighting or one to one with much victim playing I just had to leave. Truth came out when I left but in my experience best to find a new job.b
Jack Goodings yes similar experience to me. I left the job a few years down the line, I was never able to gain respect back for my profession. I didn’t pursue financial compensation, just went on sick for a year with stress. On full pay and then half pay for the last six months, I still pocketed about £40k. I was happy with that and took early retirement. The vn jumped ship and resigned before the result of the investigation but I got their flying money beautifully through investigation.
Hans Bjorkman try answering the person asking for help rather than trying to be noticed
Very educational, well planned out presentation, accurate, useful, and productive.
i have been in a situation since I was 17 years of age. I am now 48. I am finally coming to my senses but it is heartbreaking to finally realise that the years of my life have been caught up in a repeated pattern which was originally formed within my family. My intelligence had nothing to do with not noticing it. I was repeating a deeply primitive, emptional pattern which was formed very early on. Thank you Dr. Todd Grande for an integral an a siginificant part in my process of learning,about my own processes and why I attract people who harbour attributes relating to vindicate narcissism. It is a painful process but a necessary one.
Thank you for the clear information. It’s such a challenge to even begin to make sense of a narcissist’s motivations and behaviours. How much life misery could be prevented if this topic was taught to high school youth?
I said same
The saying “when you seek revenge, dig two graves” is accurate.
Wow, truckload of gems there, DR G. Cheers!
Hi Todd, a great insight thank you! I had an experience with a partner and quite a few months back, stumbled upon your vulnerable narcissist descriptions which seemed to really fit what I was experiencing from this person. It was all quite confusing, I did talk myself out of the possibility of it because of my feeling for them. Fast forward to now, it stunned me as they seemed to be punishing me emotionally and they broke up with me in a rage. I allowed the breakup to happen and felt somewhat relieved. What was wild was that I think they assumed I would beg for them back and even though they where withholding my belongings for quite some time I remained in my domain. I saw that they used my toothbrush to paint with (this person is a sign writer) and not only did they post the image with the description “toothbrush and ink” but they also took a picture of my toothbrush covered in ink and put it online. I was shocked to see an act of revenge, even though they discarded me! Freaked me out. Wild behaviour and they have no idea that seeing this repelled me further.
I'm always looking for clues to these types of behaviors in communication. I found a table that compares constructive criticism versus destructive or abusive criticism. I also noticed that people who tend to be more obsequious to superiors tend to be more condescending toward subordinates and are very upset when they find out someone they look down upon makes as much or more money than they do, even by just a few dollars.
When you said they would destroy themselves, to destroy others that is spot on on!!!!
Thanks, I like your videos.
Also, I’m always impressed at the comment section, your viewers seem to be thoughtful people who engage in interesting conversations. I don’t usually see a lot of nasty insults or back and forth...pretty refreshing!