I am so confused, it went to a problem with photosensitive epilepsy into people saying stuff like "I ain't reading a whole script to understand a plot, Maps are suppose to be fun." and "These deadlines affected my mental health and the ignorance." I just don't understand how it escalated..
Ngl the whole epilepsy issue is valid. But the issues with the map series themselves? Like dont join them then? Maybe block? Leave the map and make your own animation? They'll do anything but attemp to avoid it.
I don't understand how ppl who were so sensitive to the flashing screen even tho cheetah have warning them in community post. so the fault is not his, is the dumbass ppl doesn't take seriously or they can't just read it so mad embarrassing! My anger issues just can't
@@darkprincessanimation Some people might have not expected it to be as bad as it was such as me, I had problems with flashing lights and I never really thought much of it and some people who know they have issues with flashing lights may feel like it won't affect them. But the part that Cheetah Z showed was actually quite unexpected for some people with disorders/issues regarding flashing lights and people who don't have any photosensitivity and were still somewhat fazed by the part.
As someone who’s been lurking in the fandom since the AKN days, this feels chillingly familiar. Young artists put on pedestals, expected to act and put out content like a professional. One mistake, and suddenly everyone holding that pedestal up is ready to tear the kid down. Have we learnt anything as a community? Regardless of how popular someone is, or how cool you think their art is, we must remember that people are people. People make mistakes. People are not professionals 24/7. Fun casual fan projects made out of passion aren’t professional 24/7! Expecting that is insane. It is good to strive for accessibility, I am all for that. But can we please remember that people make mistakes and not drive them off the internet when they inevitably do?
This is literally what ive been saying. The internet has given people such confidence to attack people who literally just make mistakes. Its horrifying. (And before anyone misinterprets this: No, grooming and/or predatory behaviours are not mistakes.)
But what's funny is that, Cheetah didn't make a mistake or do anything wrong. He's 100% valid to not accommodate anyone but himself. This is art, not food water or shelter. In fact, I'd argue that Cheetah could use the autism card and say that it's ableist to demand he goes out of his comfort zone to change his art.
@@CodgerGunslinger AKN is AlliKatNya, one of, if not the first warrior cats animator on RUclips; they made animated versions of Into The Wild before and after school as a tween, before SSSwarriorcats existed. They talk about their experiences in the fandom here ruclips.net/video/kma9xxN-qUA/видео.htmlfeature=shared
I honestly don't fully understand the photosensitivity issue here. there was a flash warning, he said something rude sure but he apologized to the person and was forgiven. that deal was completely blown out of proportion
Yeah, completely excluding the drama, He put a flash warning, people decided to watch it REGARDLESS of whether or not they have epilepsy and completely ignored the warnings. He did his part, he put a warning, what more do you want? I swear, some people choose to be suicidal and want to blame someone else over their own actions. Sorry if this sounds harsh but that whole specific situation frustrates me so much as a content creator. This reminds me of situations of adults taking their kids/toddlers to the theater to go see a rated R animated movie, completely ignoring the fact that it’s rated R for a reason, and then getting mad that their child gets traumatized
You know… the more I look at these dramas surrounding popular people on social media like RUclips the more I’m convinced that the expectations of the viewers are really too high. They’re treating a teenager having fun making art maps with other artists sound like one of those corrupt movie producers. We are all human, we all make mistakes and some of us do try own up and make right those mistakes but it seems no matter what there will always be people who are attracted to the “fame” and want a piece of it by starting controversy around the “famous” individual. It’s not the artists job to make everyone happy. It’s literally impossible to do. He’s doing his best just chill.
Cheeteh is not a teenager. He's 19. He's also spread false accusations that have ruined the reputations of my friends and directly hurt their stream of revenue.
@@NightFree7 19 is literally still a teenager. Nine-teen. Also being over 18 doesn't automatically mean you're an adult who has everything figured out.
@@Ghostcatto_ And even then not really. Your brain finishes developing at 25-26. The whole "18 year olds are legal adults" conundrum was put in place because people wanted their kids working and out of the house as soon as possible.
I’m not sure what to say, but lots of stuff seems to be happening. I’ve now realized lots of warrior cats fandom people are leaving the fandom due to the drama.
@@sunstartle I've only been around for 5 years and its been more or less the same. I really knew something would come up for Cheeteh Z. As soon as an animator gets THAT big... something tends to "take them out" of that level of intensity. When you're THAT big you just can't mess up at all.
@brigade7678 and just the way he asked people to make a part within 2 days is a little much. He is amazing don't get me wrong but mabye give them a teaspoon of time to finish
Yeah, there's a reason why you shouldn't have one at that age, your brain is literally in development hell XD. Like don't take anything younger people say seriously
@@mythestoYT honestly thank you for responding to this 8 month old comment because it gave me the chance to look through all this again and remember how completely fucking utterly STUPID this whole thing was, God I seriously feel bad for cheetz
"I’m sorry, respectfully, as someone who has family members with epilepsy as well as has experienced an attack myself: it’s your own damn responsibility if there is a warning. If there isn’t one, then yes, you’re not to blame. But if there is, come on! Then you kinda ran into it yourself. If i see an electrical fence that clearly says “don’t touch, high voltage!” And i touch it anyways, i have no one to blame but myself. The tropical scourge one seems also low key crazy. I was never that into Cheetahz’s maps and never was that up to date with them, so i don’t have the complete idea of what went down, but i’m fairly sure he didn’t mean to insult anyone by having Ravenpaw wear a skull. No one owns skulls, wearing them isn’t exclusively the nativs. Some Viking tribes were known to use animals skulls as associates for god sake! Sorry, but y’all sensitive as fuck sometimes. (And yes, i am aware a lot of the people who make a problem out of this aren’t even nativs. Which is just wtf lol)" This was copy & pasted from a post on Reddit abt the situation by 'flamestormTheCat" I feel like this person voiced my own opinion better then i ever could.
I’m going to have to agree with the counter argument. Yes, CheetahZ messed up with the response to epilepsy concerns, why did this have to dig up a bunch of issues regarding the MAP community and the work environment? Didn’t people forget you can apply on your own will to participate in maps (after the fact you’ve read the rules and are already aware of the deadlines.) It’s a strange slippery slope. I am all for defending anyone with epilepsy and/or flash related medical conditions. But is anyone really obligated to make it accessible to anyone? Take a look at Spider-Man: Into The Spiderverse and especially Across The Spiderverse with its fast paced images with flash. Are they obligated to apologize? Obligated to change for the epileptic community? Would changing the style of Spiderverse franchise “kill the vibe”? These are all the questions I think about. I don’t have any for sure conclusions and don’t have much of a say so since I AM NOT epileptic. But I want people to think about that as well. All these random ass criticisms coming to light when it was originally about the epileptic community is honestly selfish and a “imma make it about me now” argument. More than half of the people don’t even have evidence of their allegations. What the hell?
i mean, when there is no warning someone could be put into a deadly seizure, you would be responsible for that persons death if they could not receive proper help in time. so yes, its very serious
@@gwaffles1039 CheetahZ did give a warning for part 127 but even then the flash was very extra and even me, someone with no medical conditions had a hard time watching it and taking it all in.
The photosensitive/Tiger noir ones feels justified, some of the other stuff tho kinda feels like personal drama which should not be shared online bc it gets ppl who don't understand the inner workings of the drama involved. And then the other stuff kinda feels like people who already didn't really like Cheeteh wanting to justify and gain more validation for their hate. Great video btw
this; really. Listening to this it's really just "i don't like the way ur doing this; change it." like..?? Most of this isn't actual criticism it's more like people trying to control how this person does things.
I never had a huge issue with tigernoir, it was a historical piece and not set with modern context of guns. Idk, I get why it was taken down but I didn't really agree. It's as kosher for kids as, say, Divergent which pulled out a gun every five seconds and was marketed for tweens. I read Divergent at 13 and if a child getting killed with a gun was bad for me to experience in fiction, I mean, point to that. And Divergent was futuristic and modern, while Tigernoir was set in a vague historical city setting harking back to noir films of the 40s and 50s.
I disagree, art isn't a necessity, its a want a luxury. To make demands and then scream ableism is extremely bratty and spoiled to the core. This is what I'd say if someone told me to change my art "no" and if they call me abliest I'd say "shut the fxck up, you can make demands when you pay for my bills. Until then, y'all can shove it"
@@officerkitten6349 art is extremely necessary. Our world is built on art. Without it we would not see flowers as beautiful, we would not see hearts as symbols of love. Art makes the world go round
The thing is, it’s just because he’s famous if this happened smaller RUclipsr no one would care people were always looking for a way to cancel him from either jealousy or just because they didn’t like something. He put warning and apologized, being rude is the bare minimum people are too sensitive nowadays. The flash is valid and a risk but they did put a warning, but now people escalated it.
warrior cats fan with an enstars pfp comparing child labor to a collaborative volunteer animation project is actually insane. these people have never worked a day in their lives in the real world
13:25 The Hollyfawn scavenger hunt was a legit thing, at least when it came to the public, Cheeteh Z would put out posts that involved a cipher of some kind, and a few illustrations such as of holly’s horns or of serpent sol. It doesn’t strike me as off that he would try the same thing in his discord as well.
I will say that if you are feeling so much anxiety around quitting something you cannot reasonably do at the moment, that isn't the organizer's problem, it's yours. it's very easy to say, "life is happening, ima have to step down." I've done it before. no one hates you for it, no one holds it against you. they understand. you are not obligated to do these things for free & no one is forcing you to. these projects specifically probably could have been managed better, but you're asking for 20 years experience from someone under 20 here. I think the fandom could benefit from calming down a bit & moving on because how much punishment is enough? he's already stepped down from both the MAP & the fandom, what more do you want? when will it be satisfying enough for you to stop? edit because btw i am minorly photosensitive, have sensitive hearing that can cause pain, & severely sensitive to scents to the point I can be bedridden if I smell soap that's a little too strong. i get the accessibility concerns, but sometimes you just need to curate your own experience, & that means avoiding things that are bad for you. the block button (as well as the "don't recommend channel" button on youtube) is there for a reason.
Poor Cheetah. They are trying their best 😅 I would be scared of reactions like this NOW at 30, nevermind if I was a teenager with people snapping at me
@@IronycheinPain Yes he did. He apologized, remove the video, reuploaded the video with warnings - then, unless it isnt showing for me, removed the vide entirely,
I respect all opinions out there, but I’m going to through in mine in case other people agree. I’m astonished by the amount of people who were angered by cheetah apparently not compensating for the photosensitive folk. He put the warning in there. Every photosensitive user had willingly chosen to watch it, and in the end of the day, nobody had been injured bad enough to make the headlines. Of course that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t care for those who have been effected, and if you have been, I am truly sorry for your discomfort and I hope that nothing like that will ever happen to you again. We are all human and we all make mistakes, and the first time that Cheetah had addressed the matter, I feel like that should have been the end of it. People continued to escalate it t the point that videos like this were made about it. Fr though, anybody being effected by this, I am so sorry and I hope things look up for you, a lot of this drama was definitely avoidable, and it’s a shame that Cheetah is retiring because those maps he hosted have gotta be some of my favorites lol.
The only thing I'm slightly miffed about is the response from Cheeteh. Like that was a stupid thing to say about a genuine concern. But other than that. I... can't find anything else abhorrently _bad_
I don’t see the problem with advertising the MAPs…? Like. Hyping up your audience isn’t bad, at all, but it’s treated like they’re purposefully pushing out other artists when in actuality, they’re popular, and able to take a more backseat managerial position because of it, which doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad. Also, these parts are FREE. And the artists KNOW they’re free. This is a sign up, not a job like the warrior cats studios.
As someone who has been in this community since I was a child, I think a big issue with the community nowadays is the high expectations of these kinds of animation projects, as Cheeteh Z said. A lot of people forget MAPs are supposed to be group passion projects made by fans for fans, and not full fledged cinematic productions. I feel like once we remember our roots there'll be less pressure on animators these days to make disney-level animations for small fun projects that are worked on with free time, especially as most of the popular animators are older and have jobs/school/etc. Although it is very amazing to see beautiful map parts!! It should not be the standard for every animator in a MAP, especially because there are and will be younger and less experienced artists looking to gain more experience with MAPs, such as animators before them did
He MADE those high expectations come in. He became unreasonable when dropping people for this very reason It's like pushing for more homework to everyone's dismay before getting exactly what you pushed for then hating it
At this point, I’m happy I’m not very popular. And too young for discord. I used to love his maps (and still do), but I Fucking hate the fact that so many people in the community I’ve been in for over 4 years have turned out to have done bad things. I have no intentions of quitting the fandom, but I hope these terrible things quiet down and things get better.
Same. Cheetah isn't a bad person but the entire thing got blown out way further than it ever should have been... The last thread they read summed it up wonderfully
I will say as someone who is photosensitive, I do think almost every single time a warning is enough- however, if the effects are enough to harm people *without* photosensitivity, timestamps and a more severe warning who would be a much better option. I also feel like Cheetah did genuinely do their best to fix this problem, and other problems as well. This isn’t an individual who is being purposefully ignorant, this is someone who did genuinely do their best to fix themselves and a past attitude.
Still sort of baffles that Tigernoir was canceled??? I understand it was bad timing after a shooting but it’s a warrior cats map- like I just genuinely don’t understand why all that work was scrapped
Imo cheetah did literally close to nothing wrong, he's just a teenager who is very talented and creative he made very very small mistakes, he's trying his best
I agree I feel that he did a lot to make sure people wouldn’t get hurt by part 127. He added a warning, was planning on having a version without the flashing and now their even changing the part. I really liked the part and I feel that he was doing good to keep the original idea and make the map accessible for everyone. Changing host was very unnecessary. I believe he handled the situation very good; he apologized, listened to the community and changed the part. People are putting out misinformation saying he didn’t apologize and didn’t have a warning but he did. People will focus on the evidence that supports their existing idea and block out any that contradicts it, this is exactly what happened. Cheeteh Z is a big creator and with that there will be people who don’t like him. This gave them a reason to dislike it and so they blocked at the work he was doing to fix it only adding to their belief that he is bad they only read post that agreed with them and only saw what he did that supported their claim. Recently big creators hin the warrior cats community have been leaving the fandom, by choice or by force so I feel we need big creator to stay to keep the community from becoming chaos and loosing a big creator like cheeteh Z to because of something as stupid as this is simply silly. A video like this is very helpful as it lets people get information from an unbiased source rather than from most luckily biased posts. It also lets anyone make sure that there opinion is taking into account both sides and all information. Thank you sunstarle for making this video. Of course this is just my opinion and it’s probably also a little biased. I hope you have a great day everyone.
@@sunnychips2987 Good writing skills lol, I agree with what u said entirely I mean, how can ppl be mad at the part when he literally had a warning? That's just complaining over nothing imo the amount of people who have epilepsy is less than 1% already and with a warning? That's making something out of nothing, it's sort of sad that he changed the part, I think it looked great the way it was
I agree. People are so sensitive and take every chance to bash the living shit out of something less than remotely problematic. If someone gets injured watching part 127, it’s their own fault. There’s a warning. I saw another comment saying their MAPs leaned heavily into free labor just because they have host large maps. What do you guys think of that?
@@Juanfilipe766 Ok the claim that he is exploiting artists for free labor is just ridiculous imo because 99% of MAPS are VOLUNTEER WORK lol it's very clear from the get go that's it's completely volunteer oriented, if he had to pay artists image how much money that would cost and he most likely does not make a ton of money from this anyways seeing how the videos are short and most likely have copyright claims
@@ViaByProxyphotosensitive people arent just epilepsy. I dont have epilepsy but i do have health issues that make me immensely photosensitive. its not less than 1% My issue with the part is that some people might not even know there are photosensitive, watch the part and get sick because if there were just some flickering lights id just shrug. I put the part in an editting program and slowed it down and i could already tell that part was a ton even more nonphotosensitive people. And that stuff is dangerous when a ton of your audience is children who may not know they have such issues
Teenagers (like me) say and do stupid things, they're learning about the adult world and how to live in it and sometimes forget that other people arent the same as them, and hold others to the standards that they are (sometimes unfairly) held to themself, whether it be at school or from parents, many people don't realise that they’ve been expected to be perfect but it will come crashing down and that veil will be broken, and they'll be able to see that no, we dont all have to be perfect all the time, give the kid a break
tbh from the document it seems like a lot of personal drama and a bit of a slip up with the flashing map part. idk! i don’t think it’s really cancel-worthy or anything (edit: check my comment in the thread for further clarification on my thoughts)
As someone who's been affected + knows people directly affected. No. This is more than that. People who've been worked sick, friends of mine I've watched be worked sick. It's not personal drama. It's happened to several people. Several worked sick. This is a community. Not a sweatshop. Maps used to br fun. 24 hr maps, weekend maps, week maps. They all used to be for fun. Not... This
It's not personal drama, demanding work while sick and dropping someone for being under such stress and rushing people working for FREE is not personal drama
it’s volunteer work. if you have seen cheeteh z’s standards before, you 100% have no obligation to take part in their maps. while yes, they’re strict and everything and want deadlines met, again no one is obligated to take part. people join the map at their own request. if you cannot handle their rules and standards for their maps, just Don’t Interact. i’m sorry people have been worked sick, but genuinely if you’re that stressed about volunteer work, please please re-evaluate what you’re willing to put yourself through for something that is supposed to be fun and collaborative.
@@crestedcomet Buddy I think your misunderstanding just how deep this goes. I'm not surprised considering the video doesn't even cover the surface nor the doc. Dude had a Union, he had people working for him. Legitimately. It was not volunteer work at that
@@HeavingSmilesI’m confused on how y’all couldn’t have just…left? If working on a MAP part is causing you be drained both physically and mentally, that should be a key indicator to simply let off from it. MAPs are completely volunteer work and you’re NOT being forced to continue to work on something that’s stressing you. I’m just not understanding how you couldn’t have left to join another map call that doesn’t require that much stress to be put on you?
Late to the party. I'm an ex friend of the user at 8:55 and I believe they're making their situation look worse than it possibly was. They used to have a pattern of making claims with shoddy or even no evidence in the past. If u see their document you can see they're actually the ones ghosting Chee with LOTS of context being left out, and they have a history with that behavior from back when I knew them. They state they began working with Chee with Mama Told Me but then say they'd been dealing with this for 4 years when the map call had only came out 2 years ago. It's possible they were misremembering but out of place things add up. Not to discredit that they had a bad experience at all, I'm not saying they didn't, but the discrepancies with their statements are suspicious at best and shows repeat behavior. They've been this way since they were 14 so it's quite funny to see they really haven't changed. Believe me or don't all I'm saying is take their recounting with a few grains of salt. To me, it looks like they jumped on the bandwagon a little bit.
@@HeavingSmiles Lol I'm not lying I'm just using an alt. I met them in 2019 when they identified as trans masc and bisexual, their birthday is the 22nd of August and their old fursona is a brown cat named Eli I hope they are treating you well though, and are a good friend /gen. I just don't think it's fair that they're still getting to say stuff without proper proof and missing context and still get away with it. That doesn't show change.
@@ArtzZephyr Yes I do! Their birthday is the 22nd of August and they are currently 18 years old :) I'm from an old friend group that has long since cut contact with them.
*EDIT TWO:* CheetehZ has come out with a new video [ ruclips.net/video/bfxDD0ZVifs/видео.html ] including a google document [ docs.google.com/document/d/1zTr15qZFJOWC4QXW4Ss4MhJJ_y1uC6HPxsrprULhxZ4/edit ] which seems like a response to the situation at hand despite neglecting to address any of the criticisms head-on. The document is a script / concept for the video and is not a response to the drama aside from containing a list of 'mental health/burnout' resources. People are frustrated with him as the video is a storyboarded 'CAP' ("concept art prompt") but is framed like a MAP, including being separated into parts / etcetera, when he said he would no longer be hosting MAPs. I am going to try my best to screenshot everything Cheeteh has put out as well as the community responses & add them to the stash linked in the description [ edit: subfolder here -- sta.sh/212olednizpv ], but as long as the video remains up I would encourage viewers to take a look at it for yourselves! *EDIT ONE:* I've been informed that OFUKITTY has since published a Google Document, which I did not see as unfortunately I was editing this video when it was posted. Would STRONGLY encourage anyone interested in this situation to view it, as it DOES have screenshots! docs.google.com/document/d/132hG9xqr0fH6zdX7-4iuAxw5ON_ZCjlytwtcyjaYhZA/edit Please remember to keep all comments RESPECTFUL, but I would love to hear opinions on these topics! How do you think that we can make the fandom more accessible for those with photosensitivity issues? Do you think that MAPs are 'different' now, or are people being overdramatic? What's the best way to handle a situation like this? Looking forwards to having some thoughtful and insightful conversations
Alright let me give my opinions on the matter. Firstly, I feel like the reason MAPs are different now is that the standards for "MAP quality" are higher. More storyboarded MAPs, less newer artists being allowed in, more popular artists being prioritized over less well known artists etc. Back in the early days, pretty much everyone was a beginner so they were less picky and tended to be more lax on quality guidelines. I feel it's unreasonable to expect a bunch of artists collaborating for FREE to be held to "professional standards." I think the best way to solve this is to just allow newer animators to join MAPs so they can get valuable experience. OR, to create MAPs specifically catered to underrated animators and new animators. I saw a few of these a couple years back and I thought they were a great idea. They may not get as popular as the massive storyboarded MAPs but they are very important for helping artists gain skills and experience. Without fresh talent entering the MAP scene it will inevitably stagnate as the more skilled older animators move on with their lives and no longer have time to host or join MAPs. 2nd the way to solve issues surrounding photosensitivity is very simple. A, you add a warning at the start of the video and/or in the title. B, just don't include sequences with flashing images. If people are worried about whether or not something is going to trigger photosensitive epliepsy, between 3-30 flashes a second is generally the range which triggers seizures. If you're STILL worried just tag it with flashing lights anyways. It's better to be safe than sorry. 3rd, I feel that the way Cheetz dealt with criticism and deadlines was very unprofessional. I don't think he's evil or anything but I do think that he shouldn't be hosting any more MAPs because clearly it's not working out for many of the people involved.
Having read the document, I can say that as a host of high level animation MAPs, CheetehZ has the responsibility to hold things together and make decisions based on what he expects to get done. People willingly volunteer to participate in such projects, and the final decision on how to guide the project is up to CheetehZ. And even if it were the case that they were under contract and being paid (which they are not), the animators would be obligated to produce their work to the quality and timeliness that is set forth by their project lead or they would be fired. If an animator cannot live up to those expectations, either because of being unable to finish their parts on time or to the quality set forth by their boss then they should work somewhere that is suited to their abilities or start their own projects ᓚᘏᗢ
A little late, but I think most people's criticism of CheetehZ is justified. Ofukitty's examples of getting dropped look pretty bad. They read like a professional email but are strangely vague. I see people in the comments getting mad or confused about how serious people are taking things, but I see know one mentioning that the seriousness started from CheetehZ. He treats dropping participants as the same as firing someone, he has strict deadlines to the point of people getting dropped with over %90 work done because they won't meet the deadline. It's very strangely strict for something that's "just a fan project," so I don't really blame the participants for taking it seriously. My main issue with the photosensitive part is that it's just generally hard to look at. I get the idea of wanting to have every participant involved, but having the images change per frame is a bit much. I don't fault him for not thinking about it though, since photosensitivity doesn't seem to be thought of as much in animation. Even Pixar had to put out a less than stellar warning when it came to Incredibles 2. There are thankfully plenty of resources on what you can do if you're worried about that kind of stuff. Overall, i do think that CheetehZ himself has set a higher and much stricter standard on himself and his MAP participants. I can't say if this has rubbed off on other MAP hosts, though.
This has blown way out of proportion, I don’t understand much about it because of how chaotic it is but I hate the fact that a literal teenager who made a small mistake is being compared to such terrible people.
A lot of people are saying that since it's a voluntary collaboration, it's the participants' fault if they are unable to meet the deadlines. It is the job of a MAP host to make sure your participants are able & willing to complete their parts, and ideally on time. However, I think many people are forgetting that because MAPs are voluntary, there is no *meaningful* pressure on the host to get a MAP out on time. That's the biggest issue with Cheetah treating these as productions and not collaborations, (which is what they are, collaborations). Hosts are not the boss or "managers" of participants, they are in charge of simply keeping the MAP running in general. That does include dropping and accepting participants. Deadlines only exist to give participants a goal to aim for. If you are requiring your artists to bend over backwards and work overtime on a volunteer project to meet deadlines that YOU are in control of, then you are not respecting your artists' time or effort that they've already put into the map. Especially considering in some of the messages, Cheetah is encouraging that collaborators be dropped before the deadline has even arrived and putting blame and responsibility on their partners. ("Hmm... end of the week might be too long" is going to kill me, by the way.) Obviously it's fine to drop someone from a MAP if they're not giving WIPs or responding, that's fine, but a simple "hey I need to see a wip or I have to drop you, sorry" will work so much better than some of these messages, which read like a human resources email and lack any compassion or patience. There is no financial loss if the MAP is delayed or an extension is given. Ideally, you don't GIVE a public release date, advertise the release date after it's ready to be posted. There IS however, a huge problem if you're blaming your participants for being late, for life getting in the way, or "keeping the team waiting." That's not the appropriate attitude for a MAP host to have towards the people who are making their project happen, and I promise you are already stressed about it. A participant should not feel guilty for ever joining or expendable. These projects are not productions. If you want to treat it like a production, treat it like networking and build up the community, instead of being unforgiving. Side note, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to be called out for Other scummy things if they're currently being criticized for one scummy thing. "What does that have to do with it" is meaningless. It's the same person, it should at least be brought up or addressed, "relevant" or not.
so fucking sick of all this drama. like seriously, i just wanna watch and enjoy my silly little cat animations. so glad i joined the community during it’s worst 🙂
what made me very uncomfortable about this whole fiasco is that I'm not saying I completely disagreed with the criticisms floating around the past few years, but as soon as this happened everyone took the opportunity to berate and dogpile a brown child. I find it very disconcerting to see a bunch of ADULTS ragging on a teenager. how old is Sparroet? I think it's very telling to hear them talk about wanting professionalism and beautiful pieces for their portfolio (at the same time the discussion on not having professional-grade maps is happening) and then saying that said teenager put them in the er because they're a pushover. I hate to say it, but if sparroet was the adult in this situation, then it was their responsibility to handle themselves, not blame a child. that goes for any adults in this situation. people saying cheeteh ruined their self esteem, I'm sorry a teenager cannot do that by hosting passion projects outside of school, that's your own problem and responsibility as an ADULT. it's just weird to me. a lot of these artists are older as the fandom has aged considerably, and I do think everyone was very, very fast to bully and berate a child making content of non-white culturally significance with music about south american colonialism.
big agree. i read these docs in the comments and it just reeks of "i have personal insecurities i'm going to project onto cheeteh z because he was unlucky enough to trigger them for me without him even knowing said insecurities existed in the first place". i've also definitely noticed online that black and brown artists/content creators in general tend to have more unhinged people go for them and tend to have people cancel them at the drop of a hat for more minor things + faster than a lot of white artists/content creators.
This is way too late and I no longer associate myself with the Warrior Cats fandom but I wanted to check to see what was up with Cheeteh and this is just... stupid. There's no other way to put it than that. The criticism for the photosensitivity - AS SOMEONE WHO HAS ISSUES WITH THAT - was ridiculous, you can't adjust to fit everyone's needs and the warning is your biggest clue. It is up to you, as the viewer, to recognize if something's not right. This is just back to the "everything needs a trigger warning" argument. And the overreaction to him having deadlines and sticking to them, which is something that will be useful to him in the future anyways, doesn't make sense to me. It's volunteer work. Seriously. No one's forcing you to join or to finish. "Oh but what about the social pressure for clout-" get offline. Genuinely, just get offline. This fandom is pouring gasoline onto a campfire and crying over the damage it's doing. No wonder so many people have left it, there's nothing enjoyable because the fans create controversy and bully teenagers off the internet over NOTHING. Good Gods, I'm glad I left when I did.
Dang I did not expect to see my art in this haha Anyways, now I know what the drama is about and just saying that while I am an animator for the SATS map, I don’t want to get caught up in any drama. The reason I work on map projects is to have fun improving my animation skills, not so much worrying about the actual project. I can only speak for myself, but working on the project definitely has opened the door for being able to receive useful constructive criticism on my art and animations, and hopefully the same for others working on it Hope everyone else is doing ok
Gosh I love the Warriors fandom but it is wayyyyy too hostile to its juggernauts. People get canceled left and right. A lot of times it’s for valid reasons but in cases like these the celebrity seems to slip up and say bad things, like we ALL DO, and then get canceled and demonized. We need to realize that the juggernauts of this fandom, and every other kind of fandom as well, are humans and will say stupid stuff. If anyone were also put in the spotlight, I’m sure we could find a million flaws too. But we have to stop canceling people and destroying their lives for stupid stuff that we all do time to time. Welcome to being a human.
This drama when it comes to the part in particular is super dumb in my opinion. He gave a warning to photosensitivity. Yes, what he said was wrong, but he apologized and was forgiven by the commenter. He even took the time to take it down and discuss with other animators and alternative way to make the map more safe for photosensitive viewers. Nobody deserves backlash THIS bad over a silly little comment when he already apologized and did his best to make amends. Jesus christ you guys, we all say stupid shit once in a while. We all make mistakes. However, I’m taking animator’s concerns into consideration when it comes to the way he allegedly treats those who work on these maps. Those claims were serious.
I'm gonna go ahead and say this, the things Cheetah is getting canceled over aren't really that valid. Like saying someone is killing a vibe doesn't warrant an entire cancelation and the person Cheetah apologized to already forgave them. The fact that people who weren't actually affected by situation are saying they won't forgive Cheetah, do they not realize how entitled that is? To essentially say you don't forgive someone in a situation where you're not the victim is so invalidating to the actual people involved. Not only that, I'm seeing a lot of ALLEGATIONS and RUMORS with no proof to back up. Did no one learn from the Kwite situation to not just believe claims or are people too hung up on getting mad over a LUXURY, yes art is a luxury go cry about it. Like, y'all are gonna ruin someone's life and art career because you guys are just thirsting for drama and clout. That's litteraly all this boils down to and it angers me to the core, like the emotional intelligence is lacking so bad.
yeah...i read the docs in the comments since i didn't have the patience for this video's godawful mic quality, and to summarize it just sounds like this: *MAP participant:* i am applying to do (MAP) with (deadline) and i will be sending updates as required. *cheeteh z:* okay cool. please follow the rules i have explicitly stated in my MAP document so things can move smoothly. *MAP participant:* something happened in my personal life/with my collab partner(s) and things are not working out the way i hoped they would. instead of communicating that there's problems on my end and taking my time so i don't get stressed out, i'm going to bum rush this/not communicate something is wrong. *cheeteh z:* this is great, but i really don't want to overstress anyone, so i'm gonna limit how many MAP parts you're taking on because you are literally 12/you did not communicate that you already had things to work on, so i'm going to debate if i want you on for future projects as you have communication issues and that's not conducive. sorry dude *MAP participant:* no. you don't understand. the rules don't apply to me in particular because a meteor set my home on fire and i chose to neglect my physical health for this, even though there's no indication i told anyone this and continued to go on business as usual. WHAT THE FUCK??? I'M WRITING A GOOGLE DOC ABOUT THIS NOW *cheeteh z:* ???
i dont have epilepsy, but im pretty sure that they’re a ton of other maps that have flashes without no warnings, this just seems like an excuse to hate on him
4:35 oh hi that’s me, i’m @theglitchsprite. i phrased my tweet a little wrong. due to my autism and visual snow syndrome i am photosensitive, but not to the extent where it can severely hurt or kill me, it can give me headaches and after-images that block my vision for a minute or two but nothing more! the outcome is still the same and that is that it was a terrible decision to have the part that way. this video is a great summary of the entire situation! if i may add my own take on the whole community turning serious situations into small nitpicks and grudges: i believe that both have a place to exist but not at the same time. this community has a serious issue with tone-deafness as every time an artist or popular creator gets called out for something serious everyone immediately offloads their personal issues just because they feel like they can, i believe cheeteh’s stories and the way that his maps have hurt the community should be discussed but in the same breath as accessibility issues is not the time and place. we have a problem with never speaking our mind with small things when we think of it. we always save it to keep the hate going. to fuel the fire. everyone offloads their small annoyances just because they can and to feel morally superior because they felt that someone was bad before everyone else. we need to start speaking our mind on popular creators when it’s appropriate and not just when it’s “cool” to hate them.
I've never been a big fan of Cheetehz or their the effect he's had on the community (the only MAPs I see completed anymore are storyboarded AUs*), but this hardly seems fair. Like, uh, making mistakes is allowed? I hate how in this community there's this pressure to cut all ties to a creator as soon as they make the smallest mistake, and they have to be deemed a bad person forever, even if they apologize. The things mentioned in the beginning were ones he'd apologized for _and_ made an effort to fix. One person can't know everything and sometimes people slip up. I never want to become popular in this fandom because I know I can't be the perfect, all-knowing, 100% politically-correct-since-birth statue I'd be expected to be. People shouldn't be put on pedestals and have impossible expectations pushed on them just for getting a lot of attention. We should be having fun with cat books, not building a social hierarchy where some are unreachable and others will never have their voices heard unless they tear someone else down. And the working conditions thing. I know this community is full of neurodivergent children, but the person on the other side of the screen can't know your situation unless you tell them. Maybe Cheetehz has been a cruel host, and if he has, then that should be called out so things can change. But at the end of the day, MAPs are volunteer projects and the responsibility to resign if you don't feel comfortable is on you. *(the lack of variety is annoying but nothing I'd blame on him alone or want him to be canceled over)
I literally got so mad when tropical Scourge was change to pirate Scourge. Like I enjoyed the design of wearing a skull as a helmet because that makes sense for cats to do, but a *fucking cat shaped pirate hat* makes no sense, and absolutely killed the tone for me. It also made me mad to hear that several animators had to make new animations to adjust to this change too. Then a similar thing happened with Bramblefur where people tried drawing connections to Native American culture when there was little to no reason to suspect anything like that. I’m less irritated with Cheetah for not having a spine and more at the fandom for finding things to get mad at because they want to feel like a victim and have their 7 seconds of fame.
And I don’t even want to hear anyone try to tell me that’s not the case. It is. There’s a huge difference between a fictional cat character wearing a skull/ wearing the pelt of another cat to hide their scars/ because they’re insane and HUMAN indigenous culture.
Fr. Wasnt it the same with Cheeteh's cleopatra MAP? People were all up in arms about it, even when there were actual egyptians in the comments trying to tell everyone that nobody was offended. And you know it was just a bunch of bored white kids complaining in the first place. Honestly at this point its just people looking for something to be mad at. The whole "listen to minorities!!" argument is really meaningless when A) No actual harmful stereotypes are being shown intentionally and B) its mostly white folks complaining because they wanna scratch that "white saviour" itch. Its disgusting.
Things like that never make sense. Where do people draw the conclusion of someone “mocking” or “appropriating” a culture because they drew a cat with a skull or skinned cat? Yea, if it was clearly representing some kind of symbolism reminiscent of indigenous culture, it would make far more sense. But flaming a creator and burning them at the stake because a cat went crazy and skinned another cat? That’s childish and trying to make an excuse to hate someone. People grasp at straws to cause any sort of drama.
it's nice having a comprehensive summary of what happened ! that being said, I was a little confused at the end as the order in which the topics were spoken about implied that Cheeteh's retirement message came after his ex co-host's accusations, which was not actually the case. the message from the co-host came after the retirement announcement, hence them asking Cheeteh to leave them out of the post (which was then quietly edited) I don't agree with some of the takes I see about TigerNoir though. Warrior Cats has extremely violent content, especially once animated. if there can be 15 different graphic versions of Scourge ripping Tigerstar's belly open on RUclips, fully accessible by teens, something that teen official animated / filmed medias would never do... then I think that gunshots, which are both much cleaner and also actually portrayed in a lot of official media directed at teens (or even kids : the Incredibles show multiple armed men, one of which fires at a protagonist, for example) are completely fair game. if you go further back and look at the animated series directed at kids and teens in the 90s, you'd find a lot of guns. the MAP being cancelled because it would have been completed at an insensitive time is a good decision in my opinion, but I don't think the project was a bad idea nor that it couldn't or shouldn't be finished at some point in the future. note that I mostly say teens, as warrior cats animations are almost always specifically marked as "not for kids" when being uploaded (as can be seen by the comment section existing). if children find their way on the 13+ RUclips, I personally consider it is not the responsibility of random content creators to censor their content, but that of the parents to monitor their kids' internet consumption.
Tigernoir had gun violence towards children within the map, as far as I am aware, and they cancelled it because of Uvalde, which was a horrific shooting.
@@sprigopine I am aware. at that time I did see the full storyboard, and it might be a cultural difference, but I didn't think it was too much for 13+ teens to see. it was not significantly more violent or explicit than official media marketed towards teens when I was one (early 2010s). I am also aware of why it was cancelled. this is why I said that I agree that it would have been insensitive at the time, and think it's good it was cancelled under those circumstances.
It’s important to mention that gun violence against children is unfortunately a common occurrence in America. A cartoon cat’s death isn’t applicable to real life events like gun violence against children is.
@@nothinpurrsonal context is indeed important ! and I get why american folks would be more careful around those subjects. however, TigerNoir didn't feature a school shooting. that would have been completely tone deaf and uncomfortable. the context was completely different, and the gun violence portrayed was "period-typical" to the style of movie the project was referencing. most people did not think it was uncomfortable at the time, before the school shooting happened, which makes me think that the project was never a bad idea, only fell at the wrong timing, which no one could have foreseen.
Honestly, I don’t know how bad it is that I’m doing as much, but with all the drama with people I like/support, I’ve started ignoring it. I try not to support the bad people once I find out, but I’ve given up on just stopping *all* interaction because there are just so many people. Either way, I hope everyone involved can leave this situation safely, and thank you so much for making this video cause I didn’t even know anything was happening at all
@@phoenixthewolf6301 Fair :') It's what makes me most afraid of eber becoming notable (not that I think it's gonna happen but when I see smaller people get more known I think about it) cause a lot of people have opinions and ways they do things that aren't 'woke' and it can drown out when people actually do things so just ignoring it is so much easier sobs
I tend to ignore drama a lot ( which I suggest a lot of people should do, because drama isn't something to be strived for and the more you pay attention to it, the more it'll happen. Of course- sometimes it is needed- I know that, ) HOWEVER I will say that the way you adressed this situation that I was very new to, was very well-informed and you shined light onto both sides. You truly showed everyone's opinions without stepping over someone else and people like me who had no idea about the situation will know almost everything just based off of this video. Very well done, you really did well
Also lovely picture you made. I love how the colors blend in the background, how you mixed different Autumn colors for the cat, and how you created a silhouette of who I assume are your clan mates in the background. Lovely picture indeed.
as a small thing i think it would be better if like things were made for photosensative viewers to not be as or at all effect by something photosensative like glasses, a loooottt of media is photosentative to some because of effects and that is a high part of media and added in mental effects as well. so instead of basically everyone having to change stuff for photosentastivity it would be more beneficial to give something for photosentastivity on there end to be better.
People need to stop putting teenagers in such a high pedalstal. Is he wrong for how he acted when he received elepsy concerns. Yes. But people literally comparing unpaid, optional volunteer work to work place abuse is insane. "The deadline and the work is affecting my mental health", then leave. You are not going to be in a financial crisis just by leaving a volunteer work. If it's paid work, I 100% understand the outrage over than but this isn't it, and people comparing them, a 19 year old angsty teenager, to Draikinator, a, now 30, year old, is insane.
I really don't get some of these arguments. How dare this MAP stray from cannon! How dare there be multiple parts to create a story! I don't want to read, I want to watch pretty colors on the screen from events that I already know about! The deadline thing is pretty dumb too. If you're given a deadline it's there for a reason, deadlines are hell for me so I don't join any animation things. I don't get most of these arguments, they're just personal gripes! Oh, this guy is popular and people are focusing on his MAPs, how dare. They STARTED with a good argument about ignoring potentially life threatening flashing lights and then it just spiraled into "creator bad because I don't like him".
there was a warning, if someone with photosenitivity decides to ignore that warning and still watch it and get harmed it's their own fault. people have to take responsibility for their own choices, if there's a big sign at a swimming pool that warns about deep water and someone who can't swim reads that sign then goes in the deep water anyway and almost dies by drowning is it the pools fault or the person's own fault for taking their own, decided risk? no one is forcing photosensitive people to watch a map with flashing images, i feel like all these people making such a big fuss are just trying to play victim bc they want attention. this is the most dumbest drama i've ever seen i swear so many warrior fans cry and make a big deal about everything like 5 year olds
dang, i had no idea all this other stuff was going on, all i knew was that cheeta had made a bad decision with that one map parts flashing [bc even with someone who doesnt have epilespsy but just sensitive eyes, it was hard to look at; plus with it going so fast its impact was a lot less] im glad its getting rehosted and people are getting the help they need though!!
Thank you for making this video cuz I was like hella confused at first but now I know it was a situation of mismanagement and not anything super malicious on purpose. Twitter it seems to make mountains out of molehills and I thought the situation was a bit more serious than it actually was so thank you for bringing more attention to this. This really reminds me of the foxy boxi situation in the animation meme community. I think more people should do more research before jumping on bandwagons like what happened recently because it just ultimately ends up as a big trash fire it's no winners in the end.
Ooooooh noooo they put a young adult on a pedastal and when they tripped a bit and showed they were human had the illusion shattered and cancelled them for it. Okay but fr this whole drama is so fking dumb, this warranted an apology from them, not having a truck of drama tossed on their head and told they're nothing short of a villian.
CheetehZ is doing the best he can, everyone messes up as stated, and sometimes people just aren't happy with what people can provide. CheetehZ had the warnings, it's other's fault if they don't follow it. The comments were kind of rude but he apologized and tried fixing it. The not being patient for maps is kind of lame, like I understand taking a whole year to finished a map part being insane, but giving someone 24-48 hours to complete a map is stupid, people have lives, people have other things they have to do. The AU thing is cool, just because people don't want to read a script doesn't make a map lame, it would be the same thing as drawing a meme for a story that no one knows about.
The MAP community really is dying. It used to be fun and anyone used to be able to participate but now you have to have Studio Ghibli quality animation to even join one lol
This is a great video. Everything that’s been going on has been worrying just by how hard it is to follow, so videos like these that do pretty good recaps and try to be as unbiased as they can are very much needed!
As far as the flashing goes, he did say that he were fixing the part to be a marvel intro styles thing in the serpant and the stars MAP, its on his RUclips community tab
Thank you so much for the angle you came at this video, I am hardly able to find videos documenting a controversy without it being for the express purpose of making commentary on the situation. It’s very appreciated
holy soup what... this is genuinely stupid. i get that they didnt properly respond to epilepsy concerns but oh boy what is that about anything else? this community is just awful.
Incredibly well made video! As a 25 year old who has mostly grew away from the fandom at the time this stuff went down I was very confused by the whole thing, so thank you for documenting it without adding to the discourse. The warriors fandom is something ive seen grow since I was 10 years old, and i think most people who partake in these controversies are the same way. Theres a trigger happiness that happens anytime someone misteps, where people with good intentions end up muddying the water through dog piling and like you said twitter telephone
Dang thank you for documenting this! Even while being apart of the SatS server I didnt fully understand what happened since I never saw the actual accusations and threads on twitter, I agree fully with your end statement about documenting things like this, awesome video!
I’m so confused with this whole situation, there’s accusations left and right and some of them just seem absolutely ridiculous I’m not saying Cheeteh is perfect, there are times where they definitely have needed to apologise and fix what they have done, but the MAPs are fantastic and the styles and storytelling are brilliant, there are so many people who have done so much worse than Cheeteh (e.g. Sagutoyas, Draikinator, etc)
I think this is so silly and stupid. An animation with a photosensitive warning?? This is incredibly common. Like, half of the animations including maps on here. Somebody just wanted to swipe in on an animator who has done nothing wrong on his way out lol.
Okay, except for the fact that this isn't the only issue people have with him at all. The hostile work environment and unfair profiting off of others is also a serious problem. Plus, it doesn't matter how common flashing stuff is in animation. It still can seriously harm people. As a community, should we not strive to be inclusive of everyone regardless of disability?
@@sillyspiderSupporting people with disabilities shouldn't have to mean "you can never make videos with flashing images" when "you should warn before flashing images so that those affected can choose not to see it" works just as well, without restricting peoples' creativity.
@@sillyspider As someone with a disability, you have to realize that people can include you all you want, but the world will never revolve around you. YOU are the only one responsible for curating your internet experience. Nobody else will.
Damn. I'm not into interacting with the fandom anymore but Zephyr is my homie but I wish they hadn't started this. I personally don't have anything against them for it since Twitter is basically just a battleground with ammo just waiting to be used. All I know is I don't want fame even when I DO post animations now
Thank you for this info as I haven’t found it anywheres else, but a little off topic: Your art is so cool and pretty, it was so satisfying to watch in the background Ik this is very off topic and not on theme for this videos topic but I’d just like to say it ❤
im not really in the amv or warriorcats fandoms at all anymore, but im sure everyone can see that yes, cheeteh did do something wrong, but no they didnt deserve all the backlash, it was human error, humans arent perfect and its gross to hold someone to that standard
people have done worse things in the fandom, like pedophilia, zoophilia, SA, and other things. drama being caused over a fucking map part is one of the silliest things I've ever witnessed on the internet, what a time to be alive. with that being said, I don't think cheetz is a bad person for saying one comment like "nah youre killing the vibe" and everyone goes batshit crazy over it. they're literally a teenager/young adult, and was probably in one of his highest moments at that time, but that doesn't instantly make him a villain. im not siding with him or trying to defend his actions, but its really petty that people let a RUclips comment section fight become a good person's downfall. we're all human, bruh, we're gonna make mistakes at some point. also an edited note: I really appreciate that you don't curse when quoting tweets, posts, or comments. its very professional and I like that.
you have absolutely no idea how much i respect someone who is capable of documenting an argument without broadcasting their opinion. really, thank you.
i think its audience dependent in regards to photosensitivity. I dont really care if gaspar noe arthouse movie has all strobes everyone watching the movie knows what they are getting into and all involved are grown adults. I mostly care about kids/teen media that has it. Also i think the timeline is a bit hard to discern here: the criticism comments mostly come from the second community post. where people were already frustrated by two vauge apologies that dont give the full context. After the first community post i was in contact with someone in the SATS team giving advice about accessibility that was passed to cheeteh. I felt as though my advice was taken in bad faith which prompted the comment
Yes! Sorry about the lack of timeline consistency; I was aware that your (and Pinewhisker's, I believe?) comment was posted on the second community post, I just thought that the two of you provided the best-worded and most insightful critiques regarding the actual photosensitivity issues, so I wanted to put them in the part of the video that discusses the photosensitivity issues more directly, if that makes any sense? I thought your point about the audience, re: age and awareness of personal photosensitivity was one of the best points that could have been made and it actually personally changed my perspective when this was all coming out. I wasn't aware of the fact that you were (directly) in contact with the SATS team, though, which definitely adds another dimension to the community posts... sigh.
yea that makes sense! im not mad at anything really abt this vid just pointing it out for clarification. ty tho i know i can be a bit scary and aggressive when it comes to this topic and i struggled so much to keep my cool I was only in contact with one person on the SATS team who came to me on their own accord and i wont name them because i respect them and commend them for coming to me for advice despite knowing that i was a bit moody after the first comm post lol
@@PolygonyallOh no, I didn’t think you were being scary/etc at all in any of your posts! It’s a really important topic to keep in mind and obviously something that’s very important for you personally. And I guess it’s good to hear that someone did approach you about that; hopefully all of this rubbish can lead to some actual positive changes regarding accessibility in the MAP community as a whole.
I’m just going to put this out there, that although cheetah is an adult, he is not fully matured yet. The average human being gets a fully developed frontal lobe at around the age of 24. I understand that people are mad at him for all of the bad things he’s done, but he’s a person too, and we might not know what’s going on in his outside life. This useless drama does nothing and it just makes things worse. I understand people are backlashing him for commenting: “Nah, your killing the vibe”, but I’m sure he meant it to be harmless. I understand all the criticism, though, and I do wish Cheetah would just apologize.
as someone who has worked for these maps and watched the maps i honestly think "its too confusing" is very subjective. whether you understand the plot of the AU or not really depends on how much of the books you have read, notably with serpent sol. also leo/friedtiiger's point about the discussion going from ableism to 'i dont get it so im justified to hate him :/' . its important to note he hasnt been the best host + dismissed concerns about accessibility, but it's definitely pulling away from the actual concerning behavior to just bitch about something you dont even have a personal stake in like OFUKITTY and sparroet do.
i didn't expect to be featured in one of these before my trip haha!! i do wish that you had at least contacted me and the rest of the people mentioned here, but i do not blame you for that as my discord isn't as public as i thought it would be at this point. the thread was mostly made when i didn't know how the public would react to my story, as many of the people there were going left and right just bashing the projects at the time and not the actual work environment in them. i do have to salute you though for actually saying o-fuck instead of ofu. it honestly took me a minute when i first watched the video. i do hope there is at least a video update on the document, or at least you remake it so that you don't accidentally spread misinfo. as of right now, its mostly being directed towards me looking like as if i am just throwing this around rather then me getting my points fact checked my multiple former hosts and friends of chee. im sorry if thats coming off as rude, but in a video thats supposed to inform people much better on this situation, i think you shouldve waited a bit more before making it. if you want to interview me further on my experiences, i will gladly do so as the information is in the document. if anyone else has questions, please just ask me; i promise i don't bite. if you want to ask here, that's also fine, but just know that i am going to be on a plane trip, so i will not be able to get as many out as i would like.
Hi! Thanks for your comment; I'm very sorry I didn't interview anyone here as I didn't want it going around that I was like... 'making a callout' or something to that effect. I was less looking to make a video in the way that most people make callout or 'drama' videos and more looking to document this discourse and the common public opinions happening at the time, like a 'time capsule' or record of what's been going on. Unfortunately this *was* very poor timing on my part as I was editing this video post-recording it when your document dropped and I didn't see it before posting. While I would love to have a better way to correct the record, RUclips doesn't have many features (that I am aware of) for changing an already uploaded video without reuploading the whole thing and thus losing the comments, etc -- and making a followup does seem a bit... tacky on my end. (If there is a way to do so, though, PLEASE let me know as I'd love for this to be as accurate as possible!) I hope the pinned comment will be enough for most viewers to understand that you *did* have screenshots, and I am really very sorry if my wording made it seem like you were just "throwing allegations around". I tried to do my best to note that while there wasn't evidence provided at the time that it was almost certainly true, but maybe I didn't quite stick the landing on that -- and I sincerely apologize if that was the case. The reason the video was posted so quickly is that I was visiting family this weekend and left my mic at my dorm, so I figured I should finish it before the weekend was over in order to avoid the perfectionism temptation to rerecord audio etcetera. Maybe not the *best* of reasons; but to be fair I wasn't expecting more information to come out since it seemed to be dying down -- though this was perhaps shortsighted on my end. And yes! I actually saw your twitter thread about how to pronounce your name a while back (Elon apparently thinks I like your Tweets and he is correct. Rare for him...) Very fun word (?) to say! If there's anything I could do better short of reuploading the video to call attention to your document, though, please let me know -- I do feel awful about misrepresenting the situation, however unintentional, and would like for your story (and LunarTempest's, and DemiM0n's, and everyone else's) to be heard. Really sorry again for all of... this!
if i’m going to be honest, it’s really a time to maybe try and work on either a part two or at least a remade verison of this. as majority of the comments now are siding w cheeteh because of the misinformation in it
@@OFUKITTY I completely understand that something like this could be emotionally exhausting, since the situation is very volatile and personal to you, however I do have to disagree with your statement. I don't think I presented any misinformation in this video, nor do I control the responses or reactions of the people who viewed it. If you view the responses which 'side' with Cheeteh -- (which I also do not think are a majority here; most of them are fairly nuanced) -- as a failure on my part, then I am afraid that you have misunderstood my motivations. I made this to document what was going on, not to 'push' one 'side' or the other of this argument. If I'd wanted to 'cancel' Cheeteh I would have done so in a much more opinionated manner. The only statement I made which is *now* misinformation, which it was not at the time of scripting and recording, is that you didn't have any screenshots. The statement that you did not have any screenshots *in your initial Twitter thread* is *still true.* "Now given the lack of screenshots here" is not a statement that precludes screenshots from existing later somewhere else. I have pinned a comment which directly addresses this and linked to your document, pinned it *twenty minutes after* the video initially went up, and as I'm sure you're aware it is very difficult to post a RUclips comment without seeing the pinned comment. Additionally, I *never* called your claims into direct question, and even took care several times to attempt to mitigate bad faith interpretations of the lack of screenshots. (1:32 , 9:16 , 9:54 ) *If you read the comments, I don't think a single one discredits you due to a perceived lack of screenshots.* All of the comments that "agree" with Cheeteh are citing other reasons. I will not be making a part two to this video, nor will I be taking it down. If you or someone else would like to make a video detailing your experiences, I am more than happy to include it in the pinned comment here and/or promote it in a community post or whatever you deem fit. I understand that it can be really upsetting to see people disagreeing with you in the comments section of a video like this (trust me, I've been there), but you have to remember that Cheeteh has a lot of fans (who would've been upset at something like this regardless), and that people are allowed to make up their own minds when presented with evidence. I tried my best to not impact the viewpoint that people walked away with. I believe that I have done my due diligence in presenting accurate information in this video, so I hope you can understand why I made this decision.
@@sunstartle never said that i don’t want people disagreeing w me. i mean the information in the said video can give off that impression that the other said is in bad faith, especially with the tigernoir situation as i’m seeing people calling others sensitive and snowflakes for not wanting to have media of children getting shot right after a school shooting. you might’ve not said it, but ima be honest people don’t just read docs after watching videos, they assume what the video has is the current information. you have multiple people in the comment section only referring to the video and just assuming that the stuff in the doc is petty drama from years ago. i have people from the doc comjng to me concerned that they might be in the wrong because of these. i never wanted videos on this to begin with. i don’t like the idea of people profiting off of something that happened to me and other artists, i know your intentions are good and you want to spread the word, but it goes out of the window when at the end you say it’s because YOU want too be nosy and get all of the tea. i’m not trying to be rude or ignorant. but considering the fact that you would rather defend the video then at least try to do something you offered in the beginning.
@@OFUKITTY I want to document these actions for people so that they’re aware of what’s going on. I don’t think it’s fair to expect everyone to be left in the dark unless they do hours and hours of research. My channel is too small to be monetized but even if it was I don’t think it’s wrong to profit off of the *effort and time* I put into this video. I never offered to take down the video or make a part two. Please reread my initial comment. Unfortunately, this is what happens when you post things online. If you post a tweet publicly, you are allowing people to screenshot it and share it as they wished. Just because it’s not getting the reaction you wanted doesn’t mean that you get to control or be in the ear of everyone who talks about it. I think it’d show a distinct lack of journalistic integrity on my end to be taking ‘behind the scenes’ information from one ‘side’ of the ‘debate’ and not the other. *You have more subscribers than I do.* If you want to make a video about your own experiences, I will promote it here & wherever else. It’ll probably get more reach than mine would anyways, and if nothing else I am *all for more information being shared* across the board. If you have any examples of *actual bias* shown in my video, please let me know. No one is perfect and it’s distinctly possible that I missed the mark on my goal. But if your simple issue is with this being documented, then I’m afraid that I can’t help you with that. I’m really not looking to upset you or make an enemy of you. I’m very sorry about what you and others had to go through with Cheeteh, but I don’t think your initial thread failed to properly summarize the information provided in the document and I think it was worded very well. That’s why I included it.
Also they mentioned that they were leaving The community (Multi Animator Projects) in their "Coming soon..." video so it's an excuse imagine not wanting to get sick from seizures how vibe killing (I commented on their apology and I wasn't the only unhappy person with their apology)
i left this community like a few years back and would pop in every now and then just to see certain projects n such. and now im reminded to as the reason why i ended up leaving lol,,, there’s way too much damn drama and it’s never handled well. warriors will always have a special little place in my heart but seeing shit like this happening so often is crazy. ion think the dude is super innocent but the way this is being handled is 😭??
Major edit 8 months later: holy shit I can’t believe how dumb this whole fiasco was. My opinions has changed since then but I still stand by my OWN opinion the way cheeteh responded to my first comment in the video was jarring ( I get it was just in the moment ). At the end of the day he had put a waring for the flashing images and even made an alternative, I don’t think there was any bad intentions. Honestly this whole drama would’ve been avoided if the crew members and co hosts for SATS talked to cheeteh ( although i assume they probably did ). Btw I’m only reffeing to my experience with the photosensitive situation, not about the pressing artists thing later on in map production ( I wasn’t aware of that until after cheetehs apology 7:44 ) Edit Edit: sorry that it sounds like I’m putting cheeteh to a standard, I promise that’s not my intent. This whole drama isn’t outrageous anymore, it’s just sad
Hey, don't be so down on yourself! I think that this was a discussion that needed to be had at some point (re: accessibility of MAPs) and you conducted yourself incredibly politely throughout the whole thing. I don't think it's wrong that you accepted his apology, either, because he was apologizing for the things he said which he said *directly to you*. If anyone was the victim of specifically the photosensitivity issues, it would have been you for being dismissed like that and the people who were negatively impacted by the eyestrain, so it was your place to do so. Also, I am so sorry if I made it sound like I thought your grammar was bad ^^; I meant that statement to apply to all of the screenshots, because I reworded almost every single one to make them easier to say into a microphone lol. I really hope that you're able to walk away from this completely fine, because you absolutely didn't do anything wrong here and I need you to know that
I honestly think you were very entitled and extremely out of line to even do that. There's a huge rule in the art community its called "dont tell me what to draw unless you're paying me." Or "don't give unwarranted criticism". Wanna know why? Because its entitled to demand someone else's art accommodate you without offering to pay, like you're special just because you have epilepsy. I'm going to tell you just once, Cheetah was significantly nicer than I would've been. Because I wouldn't hold back my rage against entitlement.
@@Beastfolk maybe take your own advice, because I'm simply calling out the bull in a harsh way. You wanna act like an adult? Make your own art, but don't go crying when people start demanding stuff from you. In fact, I could use the excuse you're bullying me because I'm autistic, but I'm not. So maybe learn how to actually read, before replying.
im here a bit late, but came to figure out y Cheeteh Z has been quiet for the past 6 months.... this gave me the answers i was looking for, or as least an idea as to y hes been quiet, thank u Edit: love the drawing btw
You guys forget that this isn't ONLY on Cheeteh. It was multiple artists that ALL agreed to add this effect with their art. This was a team effort. Stop bashing only one person. This isnt even worth bashing them for. They had a warning, if you have photosensitivity you cant expect the entire world to just change to fit your specific needs. Just don't watch the video. You can live without ONE video of animated cat murder. This is exactly why i left this community years ago. I was young and surrounded by drama, way too much stress. I feel bad for the artists who do this work and feel proud of it being manipulated by their fans and community into changing things for a small group of people. Even after it was changed, y'all are still dog piling them. What the fuck?
firstly, this is much more than just a warning about flashing lights. second, the main concern was that this would be in the final MAP which, despite having a warning at the beginning, cannot be predicted once 3-4 minutes into the project. third, it's literally in this exact video where it's stated that the artists weren't informed of what "effect" their art was going to be used for, don't spread misinformation when it's literally right in front of your face. even if it were, does that diminish the criticism because "well everyone else did it too!1!"? no, of course the other artists would also be held accountable for this by anyone with sense. fourth, there are disabled people who spoke up (and still are speaking up) about this with valid concerns and you, who isn't even photosensitive, dismissing them with a "the world doesn't revolve around you!" is disgusting. it's not "fandom toxicity", it's when a person has dealt with criticisms over a long period of time over and over and still hasn't improved from them, then goes on to be forgiven by people who aren't even victims. even the inability to view situations like this as nothing more than "drama" is the reason why fandom culture is stunted in its growth and instead the same cesspool of toddlers that have never been told "no" in their lives. the ability to hold yourself accountable for mistakes, to listen to the criticisms of others, and to learn and grow as an individual is what makes a healthy community. this video's entire comment section is quite ironic considering it's this same blind faith and dickriding that allows this kind of behavior to pop up in the community again and again. i've also left the fandom a while ago, and have storyboarded for cheetz and taken parts in his projects. yet even i can take the time out of my day to understand a situation fully before providing my own insight. the way people are bending over backwards to try to please a creator who doesn't even know about your existence is literally proof of how ridiculous these parasocial relationships have gotten, and how they've succeeded in controlling their audience. i don't condone harassment, people who take the time out of their day to make someone else's life miserable through spamming insults and death threats are pathetic. but i can also recognize the difference between giving an artist genuine feedback and "dogpiling" them with ill intent. of course, this doesn't mean that everyone in this situation realizes that harassment isn't the way. this got really long and i don't expect you to read it. but again, i'd be surprised, considering you took the time to learn about situations from a community you left years ago. i chose this comment to reply to out of the hundreds under this video because you basically went over all of the most popular ignorant stances people are taking in this situation (ignorant=/=stupid, just uneducated). i don't think cheeteh is a monster that should be euthanized or ousted from society, but the criticism he's receiving isn't for no reason.
As someone who worked on 127 initially, No one was told what effect this part would have. Many of the participants were backups or just animators who wanted to get in a Cheetz project in some way shape or form Our time limit didn't help us in processing that either (For reference, everyone who wanted to join had 86 minutes total to finish their frame. Again, people wanted to be part of SATS in any way) We only started noticing when the final video came in And no, the issue wasn't that there was no warning because there was. The concern was the fact that the part going in would make the MAP inaccessible And also no, no one is manipulating anyone into making things accessible for other viewers. Even animators younger than Cheeteh Z can follow concerns like this. No one was also dogpiled after the change. People got mad because of the way Cheeteh Z apologized (In his own words, he was "feeling silly from the MAP highs" that he responded to photosensitive concerns as vibe killers)
@@IronycheinPain I appreciate you clearing this up for me, and apologize for my ignorance. Although now this is confusing me. Mayhaps you could clear it up for me. What did Cheeteh tell you guys this art was going to be used for then? Were they the only one who edited or worked on this part? Why wouldn't they alert the other artists who were working on the map that this part was being made in this way? It's just a bit confusing. I would think as a map host you would communicate every change you make to your map, but I'm assuming they didn't always do that.
@@Milkumms._ He did tell us this was for part 127. That we knew. He tagged everyone and said the part was essentially a first come first serve, and we hopped in as fast as possible what we didn't know was how bad the part was gonna be in terms of flashiness, nor did we initially consider it until we saw the full thing and especially when people began complaining
I am a new content creator really, I don't post a lot but I do enjoy making PMVs. I feel something I personally noticed is that recent MAPs feels like people host them for the sole reason if trying to get popular artists on the project, it feels like new artists can't really get their foot in the door with big MAP creators unless they have incredible art or a big following. Sure you can want your MAP to look good but I feel like every MAP I see it's always the same animators, no one else. And it gets boring just seeing the same animators, sure they're incredible but I want to see new and upcoming artists. I feel like previous MAPs before the community was this big it didn't have this focus on only big names and the same 20 or so animators being the only ones to get into MAPs, but it feels like that now sometimes.
Yes the flashing warning should have been more direct and in place but other than that i feel like the warriors community is turning into a fandom of a bunch of cry baby snow flakes
I don't think trying to take in mind photosenstive folks + disabled folks is just drama lmao and saying "xd okay aaaand I was being silly" is a very mature way to deal things
@@wealdfuryHe should have made the part slower to begin with, but besides that + multiple *clear* flash warnings, he doesn’t have any obligation beyond that. No one is obligated to watch the maps. His response to the initial reply was also bad. That was never at all acceptable or okay for him to say “you’re killing the vibe” and then say “oh sowwy I was bein a little silly goose 🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭”.
@@wealdfury he *did* take disabled folks and photosensitive folks in mind though. there were warnings in the first place. i don't really care about him handling things unprofessionally -- he's 19. he's not a lawyer or a PR agent. the people claiming workplace abuse in a google doc by projecting their insecurities onto him and getting angry at his disappointment at their lack of communication, on the other hand...it's just sloppy.
just little corrections to a thing you said: the tigernoir map featured gun violence against CHILDREN. A lot of people felt it came too close to the concept of school shootings and with a minor-majority fandom, felt that was inappropriate. It took an actual school shooting to happen for Cheetz to take down the map, which imo was pretty shitty.
Yea, it was a strange thing to include, but I still don’t think it was malicious. I think if he had changed the concept to avoid gun violence against kids, it could have been completely avoided before the shooting happened. Crappy move, but probably not intentionally harmful.
watching things vs reading them is two different methods of processing. plus i think kids arent as sensitive to a hawk plucking up a kitten as they are to the idea of being shot with a gun, because one of those things is more likely to happen to them than the other@@ParsureArts
I still plan to be excited for Serpent and the Stars, and hope that the new hosts treat our animators well. As much as I love the story, I do feel some guilt for still wishing to enjoy the story when it's given me so much motivation to do what I love; art and storytelling. I knew sooner or later some person I looked up too would fall in a hole (trust me, I feel betrayed by these guys all the time). Though, I believe this does lighten up the eyes of others of what really happens with hosting MAPs. I wish to say that you can still love the art without supporting the artist, as long as the art doesn't hate. Again, hoping that the new hosts of the MAP will make better descistions??? Help autocorrect can't help me!! I also hope that Sparroet is going to be okay, as he is also such a inspiration to me. Thanks for this video, as it really puts things together more easier. I'm still recovering from this shock, but soon it'll all be okay. Also the title is so badass ngl
Thank you so much for compiling all this; holy shit I didn’t know it was all this much. Something I also don’t know if it made it in (I didn’t get through all of it) but ALWAYS rubbed me the wrong way was that Sagutoyas was in nearly every single one of Cheeteh’s MAPs and when the callout came out he was absolutely silent despite being fully active. Even an acknowledgement that Sally wouldn’t be let back in would’ve done wonders tbh; that’s when I kind of started distancing myself from the project. I don’t mean to slander Cheetah btw as I know he’s young, but I do think that as a young adult myself there’s a responsibility to still blacklist dangerous individuals, which he failed to do.
tbf there is absolutely no reason for him to address sagutoyas being in his maps. sagutoyas has been in a RIDICULOUS amount of projects and it is extremely unreasonable to expect someone to make a statement about an animator in their maps /before/ callouts on them were public.
@@engineerteamfortress Sorry I missed this comment. But that is not correct; the callouts were from February and well spread throughout areas which he was active, and was also following the account which they were posted on (I know this because I got the “mutual follower” notice back when I was on Twitter). It would’ve been actually hard to have missed the backlash for anyone in the community involved on the side of RUclips or Twitter to have missed, especially so far ingrained - and where the vast majority of creators were renouncing connection or reassigning parts which had been previously given out. From my understanding (bearing in mind I’m not a WC creator), this appears to be the common courtesy.
* To clarify: I’m talking about whether or not Sally would be permitted *back* into future MAPs, not that she was in them previously before all of this was discovered. I’m in agreement that would be ridiculous to expect and was not what I was trying to say at all; I apologize if there was any confusion there ^^;
I feel like some people over react over little things like a cat having a marking fully and/or vaguely shaped feather or leaf shaped marking on a cat and suddenly people are exploding about how it’s racist disrespectful etc. Now I am no way saying that this is an excuse to be racist or disrespectful to cultures people etc. Just don’t react over something so stupid like as my previous example having a feather shaped marking just because.
tbh i never knew this would blow up like this. when this part released, the people who criticized the part, such as myself, were in the minority. i cant comment for photosensitive people, but as a regular viewer i felt like it was not the best decision as it was very fast, and changed the whole meaning behind what made this moment impactful, and not in the good way. plus, the description said that the participants were supposed to see what they could draw in 90 minutes, so it didnt seem like it would be throwing away hard work. i spoke on this situation because i genuinely care about this map, and i thought it was important as a commenter to help this map be the best it can be. but its disgusting seeing these people from the depths of twitter saying "i never liked his style" or "youre a piece of scum". his response was very immature, yes. but its not like hes some 75 year old overlord. hes a random 19 yo trying to persue his passion. and seeing him give up his map because of all this, having comment sections full of toxic hate (not the ones with criticism, i mean the ones full of calling him names, and a lot of those people have never even been to his channel before and werent there to witness what happened). i know i was not the relevant comment in this thread, but i still feel guilty for commenting, because it never shouldve gone down like this. while i appreciate the people who told him about the dangers of this, theres no need to get in his face so much as some of these people, the part has already been taking down, and now theyre making the situation even worse and miserable for all parties involved.
Hey, I don't think you should feel guilty for commenting at all! All you were doing is backing up someone's (correct) concerns about flashing / photosensitivity in the MAP and you honestly offered a lot of workable and relevant advice. While it was irrelevant to the *scandal* specifically, I don't think that it was irrelevant or unnecessary at the time / as a whole, especially not to the MAP part itself. Almost none of the backlash was due to you in the slightest -- I think that negative sentiments towards Cheeteh have been bubbling under the surface for a long while, and it was only a matter of time before they exploded to the surface like this.
This community is such a mess, just like many other communities have become, thanks to people not thinking for themselves and just following the crowd. This is how things get blown out of preportion like that. One person has unrealistic expectations, and then they all do.
fascinating video, thank you so much lol. as an archivist especially THANK YOU for documenting by far the WORSE kinda of phenomenom to document..... twitter.
I’m don’t know exactly what to say. I’m a small animator with little experience especially with discord and maps, I’m so sorry some people had to experience this stuff if it’s true! Cheetah already said she also has to go with school, plus lots of people are so mad at him, when he is trying to tell a story. Even is I You might need to read the script, it’s a amazing heart feel story that has took years to do. Technically it’s not addressed as child labor, as you do have a choice if you would like to do it either way. Labor is when you do lots for nothing to support family and such, but this is just animation not living to surive. Some people do much more bad things like stealing commissions and hacking games and such. This is I literally teenager. Imagine your just a teenager and you have school,lots of people with threats plus how lot’s are bias and racism around This. I hope sparrot and cheetah are going to be ok. I’m so sorry
I am so confused, it went to a problem with photosensitive epilepsy into people saying stuff like "I ain't reading a whole script to understand a plot, Maps are suppose to be fun." and "These deadlines affected my mental health and the ignorance."
I just don't understand how it escalated..
Ngl the whole epilepsy issue is valid. But the issues with the map series themselves? Like dont join them then? Maybe block? Leave the map and make your own animation? They'll do anything but attemp to avoid it.
FRR THO? EPILEPSY N PHOTO SENSITIVITY ISSUE IS VALID BUT THEN IT WENT TO THE MAP AFFECTING THEIR MH ITS SO CONFUSING??
I don't understand how ppl who were so sensitive to the flashing screen even tho cheetah have warning them in community post. so the fault is not his, is the dumbass ppl doesn't take seriously or they can't just read it so mad embarrassing! My anger issues just can't
@@darkprincessanimation Some people might have not expected it to be as bad as it was such as me, I had problems with flashing lights and I never really thought much of it and some people who know they have issues with flashing lights may feel like it won't affect them. But the part that Cheetah Z showed was actually quite unexpected for some people with disorders/issues regarding flashing lights and people who don't have any photosensitivity and were still somewhat fazed by the part.
@@darkprincessanimation but I somewhat understand the point your tryna make.
Wow, so they got in trouble for…having deadlines and sticking with them? This fandom is a nightmare, literal nightmare.
Yeah
As someone who’s been lurking in the fandom since the AKN days, this feels chillingly familiar. Young artists put on pedestals, expected to act and put out content like a professional. One mistake, and suddenly everyone holding that pedestal up is ready to tear the kid down. Have we learnt anything as a community?
Regardless of how popular someone is, or how cool you think their art is, we must remember that people are people. People make mistakes. People are not professionals 24/7.
Fun casual fan projects made out of passion aren’t professional 24/7! Expecting that is insane.
It is good to strive for accessibility, I am all for that. But can we please remember that people make mistakes and not drive them off the internet when they inevitably do?
This is literally what ive been saying. The internet has given people such confidence to attack people who literally just make mistakes. Its horrifying.
(And before anyone misinterprets this: No, grooming and/or predatory behaviours are not mistakes.)
This is why I hate the internet
What's akn???
But what's funny is that, Cheetah didn't make a mistake or do anything wrong. He's 100% valid to not accommodate anyone but himself. This is art, not food water or shelter. In fact, I'd argue that Cheetah could use the autism card and say that it's ableist to demand he goes out of his comfort zone to change his art.
@@CodgerGunslinger AKN is AlliKatNya, one of, if not the first warrior cats animator on RUclips; they made animated versions of Into The Wild before and after school as a tween, before SSSwarriorcats existed. They talk about their experiences in the fandom here ruclips.net/video/kma9xxN-qUA/видео.htmlfeature=shared
I honestly don't fully understand the photosensitivity issue here. there was a flash warning, he said something rude sure but he apologized to the person and was forgiven. that deal was completely blown out of proportion
Same
yeah
Wait so people felt angry that there were flashes IN A VIDEO WITH A FLASH WARNING?!?!
@@Jaku_72 Mhm, people these days are so sensitive.
Yeah, completely excluding the drama, He put a flash warning, people decided to watch it REGARDLESS of whether or not they have epilepsy and completely ignored the warnings. He did his part, he put a warning, what more do you want? I swear, some people choose to be suicidal and want to blame someone else over their own actions. Sorry if this sounds harsh but that whole specific situation frustrates me so much as a content creator. This reminds me of situations of adults taking their kids/toddlers to the theater to go see a rated R animated movie, completely ignoring the fact that it’s rated R for a reason, and then getting mad that their child gets traumatized
You know… the more I look at these dramas surrounding popular people on social media like RUclips the more I’m convinced that the expectations of the viewers are really too high. They’re treating a teenager having fun making art maps with other artists sound like one of those corrupt movie producers. We are all human, we all make mistakes and some of us do try own up and make right those mistakes but it seems no matter what there will always be people who are attracted to the “fame” and want a piece of it by starting controversy around the “famous” individual. It’s not the artists job to make everyone happy. It’s literally impossible to do. He’s doing his best just chill.
Cheeteh is not a teenager. He's 19. He's also spread false accusations that have ruined the reputations of my friends and directly hurt their stream of revenue.
@@NightFree7just want to point out that 19 is still a teenager. Not defending his actions but just want to correct you on that
@@NightFree7 19 is literally still a teenager. Nine-teen. Also being over 18 doesn't automatically mean you're an adult who has everything figured out.
@@NightFree7they said you're not really a full adult you're still a teenager. You're not a full adult until you turn 20 or 21
@@Ghostcatto_ And even then not really. Your brain finishes developing at 25-26. The whole "18 year olds are legal adults" conundrum was put in place because people wanted their kids working and out of the house as soon as possible.
They compared a cat map to child labour
Not only that but this is volunteer work. No one's forcing them to join or anything. And if they feel not good doing them, there's a block button
@@tigernnosaurus7324 “New cheeteh map just dropped, off to work we go boys 😔“
@@ferretflower "when will this suffering end?"
did you see the ofukitty doc where she implies cheeteh z was her abuser 💀
@@redwolftrash WHAT THE FUCK
What a surprise! The warriors fandom getting upset over the dumbest sh-t AGAIN 😱
I cannot BELIEVE it! This is something that has definitely never EVER happened before!!! 😱😱
Fr!
FR the fuck with this nonesense drama😭
at this point im pretty sick and tired
Exactly, this is such an overreaction
I’m not sure what to say, but lots of stuff seems to be happening. I’ve now realized lots of warrior cats fandom people are leaving the fandom due to the drama.
Yeah; I can't tell if it's always been this bad or if it's been getting worse lately, but I will say: There definitely is A Lot.
Mhm@@sunstartle
@@sunstartle I've only been around for 5 years and its been more or less the same. I really knew something would come up for Cheeteh Z. As soon as an animator gets THAT big... something tends to "take them out" of that level of intensity.
When you're THAT big you just can't mess up at all.
@sunstartle and it's a shame
@brigade7678 and just the way he asked people to make a part within 2 days is a little much. He is amazing don't get me wrong but mabye give them a teaspoon of time to finish
At this point, being a teenager/young adult with art talent and a twitter account is just a one way ticket to drama hell
Yeah, there's a reason why you shouldn't have one at that age, your brain is literally in development hell XD. Like don't take anything younger people say seriously
@@mythestoYT honestly thank you for responding to this 8 month old comment because it gave me the chance to look through all this again and remember how completely fucking utterly STUPID this whole thing was, God I seriously feel bad for cheetz
@@thenyan3095 Sorry for bringing you to this bs again, haha XD
@@mythestoYTNAH NAH UR FINE LMAO
It’s not your fault dw
@@thenyan3095 Hahah XD
"I’m sorry, respectfully, as someone who has family members with epilepsy as well as has experienced an attack myself: it’s your own damn responsibility if there is a warning. If there isn’t one, then yes, you’re not to blame. But if there is, come on! Then you kinda ran into it yourself. If i see an electrical fence that clearly says “don’t touch, high voltage!” And i touch it anyways, i have no one to blame but myself.
The tropical scourge one seems also low key crazy. I was never that into Cheetahz’s maps and never was that up to date with them, so i don’t have the complete idea of what went down, but i’m fairly sure he didn’t mean to insult anyone by having Ravenpaw wear a skull. No one owns skulls, wearing them isn’t exclusively the nativs. Some Viking tribes were known to use animals skulls as associates for god sake! Sorry, but y’all sensitive as fuck sometimes. (And yes, i am aware a lot of the people who make a problem out of this aren’t even nativs. Which is just wtf lol)"
This was copy & pasted from a post on Reddit abt the situation by 'flamestormTheCat" I feel like this person voiced my own opinion better then i ever could.
I’m going to have to agree with the counter argument. Yes, CheetahZ messed up with the response to epilepsy concerns, why did this have to dig up a bunch of issues regarding the MAP community and the work environment? Didn’t people forget you can apply on your own will to participate in maps (after the fact you’ve read the rules and are already aware of the deadlines.) It’s a strange slippery slope.
I am all for defending anyone with epilepsy and/or flash related medical conditions. But is anyone really obligated to make it accessible to anyone? Take a look at Spider-Man: Into The Spiderverse and especially Across The Spiderverse with its fast paced images with flash. Are they obligated to apologize? Obligated to change for the epileptic community? Would changing the style of Spiderverse franchise “kill the vibe”?
These are all the questions I think about. I don’t have any for sure conclusions and don’t have much of a say so since I AM NOT epileptic. But I want people to think about that as well.
All these random ass criticisms coming to light when it was originally about the epileptic community is honestly selfish and a “imma make it about me now” argument. More than half of the people don’t even have evidence of their allegations. What the hell?
i mean, when there is no warning
someone could be put into a deadly seizure, you would be responsible for that persons death if they could not receive proper help in time. so yes, its very serious
@@gwaffles1039 I did not say it wasn't serious. Sorry if you misunderstood.
i meant it more as serious enough that it needs a warning at the very least, not that you werent saying it, my bad@@Skye_Shines
@@gwaffles1039 CheetahZ did give a warning for part 127 but even then the flash was very extra and even me, someone with no medical conditions had a hard time watching it and taking it all in.
@@gwaffles1039 And you're all good no worries :D
The photosensitive/Tiger noir ones feels justified, some of the other stuff tho kinda feels like personal drama which should not be shared online bc it gets ppl who don't understand the inner workings of the drama involved. And then the other stuff kinda feels like people who already didn't really like Cheeteh wanting to justify and gain more validation for their hate. Great video btw
this; really. Listening to this it's really just "i don't like the way ur doing this; change it." like..?? Most of this isn't actual criticism it's more like people trying to control how this person does things.
I never had a huge issue with tigernoir, it was a historical piece and not set with modern context of guns. Idk, I get why it was taken down but I didn't really agree. It's as kosher for kids as, say, Divergent which pulled out a gun every five seconds and was marketed for tweens. I read Divergent at 13 and if a child getting killed with a gun was bad for me to experience in fiction, I mean, point to that.
And Divergent was futuristic and modern, while Tigernoir was set in a vague historical city setting harking back to noir films of the 40s and 50s.
I disagree, art isn't a necessity, its a want a luxury. To make demands and then scream ableism is extremely bratty and spoiled to the core. This is what I'd say if someone told me to change my art "no" and if they call me abliest I'd say "shut the fxck up, you can make demands when you pay for my bills. Until then, y'all can shove it"
@@officerkitten6349 art is extremely necessary. Our world is built on art. Without it we would not see flowers as beautiful, we would not see hearts as symbols of love. Art makes the world go round
@@MrBleuskyz art doesn't feed you, art doesn't shelter or warm you. Its important in its own ways, but not enough to subjugate.
The thing is, it’s just because he’s famous if this happened smaller RUclipsr no one would care people were always looking for a way to cancel him from either jealousy or just because they didn’t like something. He put warning and apologized, being rude is the bare minimum people are too sensitive nowadays. The flash is valid and a risk but they did put a warning, but now people escalated it.
people are acting like he killed someone 💀
warrior cats fan with an enstars pfp comparing child labor to a collaborative volunteer animation project is actually insane. these people have never worked a day in their lives in the real world
13:25 The Hollyfawn scavenger hunt was a legit thing, at least when it came to the public, Cheeteh Z would put out posts that involved a cipher of some kind, and a few illustrations such as of holly’s horns or of serpent sol. It doesn’t strike me as off that he would try the same thing in his discord as well.
As a person who was in that era, I confirm, it was like "Gravity Falls pages" thing
I will say that if you are feeling so much anxiety around quitting something you cannot reasonably do at the moment, that isn't the organizer's problem, it's yours. it's very easy to say, "life is happening, ima have to step down." I've done it before. no one hates you for it, no one holds it against you. they understand. you are not obligated to do these things for free & no one is forcing you to. these projects specifically probably could have been managed better, but you're asking for 20 years experience from someone under 20 here. I think the fandom could benefit from calming down a bit & moving on because how much punishment is enough? he's already stepped down from both the MAP & the fandom, what more do you want? when will it be satisfying enough for you to stop?
edit because btw i am minorly photosensitive, have sensitive hearing that can cause pain, & severely sensitive to scents to the point I can be bedridden if I smell soap that's a little too strong. i get the accessibility concerns, but sometimes you just need to curate your own experience, & that means avoiding things that are bad for you. the block button (as well as the "don't recommend channel" button on youtube) is there for a reason.
Poor Cheetah. They are trying their best 😅 I would be scared of reactions like this NOW at 30, nevermind if I was a teenager with people snapping at me
he hasn't even once apolgized for his actions, he isn't trying
@@IronycheinPain Yes he did. He apologized, remove the video, reuploaded the video with warnings - then, unless it isnt showing for me, removed the vide entirely,
I respect all opinions out there, but I’m going to through in mine in case other people agree. I’m astonished by the amount of people who were angered by cheetah apparently not compensating for the photosensitive folk. He put the warning in there. Every photosensitive user had willingly chosen to watch it, and in the end of the day, nobody had been injured bad enough to make the headlines. Of course that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t care for those who have been effected, and if you have been, I am truly sorry for your discomfort and I hope that nothing like that will ever happen to you again. We are all human and we all make mistakes, and the first time that Cheetah had addressed the matter, I feel like that should have been the end of it. People continued to escalate it t the point that videos like this were made about it.
Fr though, anybody being effected by this, I am so sorry and I hope things look up for you, a lot of this drama was definitely avoidable, and it’s a shame that Cheetah is retiring because those maps he hosted have gotta be some of my favorites lol.
The only thing I'm slightly miffed about is the response from Cheeteh. Like that was a stupid thing to say about a genuine concern. But other than that. I... can't find anything else abhorrently _bad_
I don’t see the problem with advertising the MAPs…? Like. Hyping up your audience isn’t bad, at all, but it’s treated like they’re purposefully pushing out other artists when in actuality, they’re popular, and able to take a more backseat managerial position because of it, which doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad. Also, these parts are FREE. And the artists KNOW they’re free. This is a sign up, not a job like the warrior cats studios.
As someone who has been in this community since I was a child, I think a big issue with the community nowadays is the high expectations of these kinds of animation projects, as Cheeteh Z said. A lot of people forget MAPs are supposed to be group passion projects made by fans for fans, and not full fledged cinematic productions. I feel like once we remember our roots there'll be less pressure on animators these days to make disney-level animations for small fun projects that are worked on with free time, especially as most of the popular animators are older and have jobs/school/etc. Although it is very amazing to see beautiful map parts!! It should not be the standard for every animator in a MAP, especially because there are and will be younger and less experienced artists looking to gain more experience with MAPs, such as animators before them did
He MADE those high expectations come in. He became unreasonable when dropping people for this very reason
It's like pushing for more homework to everyone's dismay before getting exactly what you pushed for then hating it
@@IronycheinPain You’re right i just didn’t wanna say it LOL
At this point, I’m happy I’m not very popular. And too young for discord. I used to love his maps (and still do), but I Fucking hate the fact that so many people in the community I’ve been in for over 4 years have turned out to have done bad things. I have no intentions of quitting the fandom, but I hope these terrible things quiet down and things get better.
Same. Cheetah isn't a bad person but the entire thing got blown out way further than it ever should have been...
The last thread they read summed it up wonderfully
@@RezieThe3rd2480 you are correct in those statements, good o know someone can understand my status on this.
I will say as someone who is photosensitive, I do think almost every single time a warning is enough- however, if the effects are enough to harm people *without* photosensitivity, timestamps and a more severe warning who would be a much better option. I also feel like Cheetah did genuinely do their best to fix this problem, and other problems as well. This isn’t an individual who is being purposefully ignorant, this is someone who did genuinely do their best to fix themselves and a past attitude.
Still sort of baffles that Tigernoir was canceled??? I understand it was bad timing after a shooting but it’s a warrior cats map- like I just genuinely don’t understand why all that work was scrapped
Imo cheetah did literally close to nothing wrong, he's just a teenager who is very talented and creative he made very very small mistakes, he's trying his best
I agree I feel that he did a lot to make sure people wouldn’t get hurt by part 127. He added a warning, was planning on having a version without the flashing and now their even changing the part. I really liked the part and I feel that he was doing good to keep the original idea and make the map accessible for everyone. Changing host was very unnecessary. I believe he handled the situation very good; he apologized, listened to the community and changed the part. People are putting out misinformation saying he didn’t apologize and didn’t have a warning but he did. People will focus on the evidence that supports their existing idea and block out any that contradicts it, this is exactly what happened. Cheeteh Z is a big creator and with that there will be people who don’t like him. This gave them a reason to dislike it and so they blocked at the work he was doing to fix it only adding to their belief that he is bad they only read post that agreed with them and only saw what he did that supported their claim. Recently big creators hin the warrior cats community have been leaving the fandom, by choice or by force so I feel we need big creator to stay to keep the community from becoming chaos and loosing a big creator like cheeteh Z to because of something as stupid as this is simply silly.
A video like this is very helpful as it lets people get information from an unbiased source rather than from most luckily biased posts. It also lets anyone make sure that there opinion is taking into account both sides and all information. Thank you sunstarle for making this video.
Of course this is just my opinion and it’s probably also a little biased. I hope you have a great day everyone.
@@sunnychips2987 Good writing skills lol, I agree with what u said entirely I mean, how can ppl be mad at the part when he literally had a warning? That's just complaining over nothing imo the amount of people who have epilepsy is less than 1% already and with a warning? That's making something out of nothing, it's sort of sad that he changed the part, I think it looked great the way it was
I agree. People are so sensitive and take every chance to bash the living shit out of something less than remotely problematic. If someone gets injured watching part 127, it’s their own fault. There’s a warning. I saw another comment saying their MAPs leaned heavily into free labor just because they have host large maps. What do you guys think of that?
@@Juanfilipe766 Ok the claim that he is exploiting artists for free labor is just ridiculous imo because 99% of MAPS are VOLUNTEER WORK lol it's very clear from the get go that's it's completely volunteer oriented, if he had to pay artists image how much money that would cost and he most likely does not make a ton of money from this anyways seeing how the videos are short and most likely have copyright claims
@@ViaByProxyphotosensitive people arent just epilepsy. I dont have epilepsy but i do have health issues that make me immensely photosensitive. its not less than 1%
My issue with the part is that some people might not even know there are photosensitive, watch the part and get sick because if there were just some flickering lights id just shrug. I put the part in an editting program and slowed it down and i could already tell that part was a ton even more nonphotosensitive people. And that stuff is dangerous when a ton of your audience is children who may not know they have such issues
Teenagers (like me) say and do stupid things, they're learning about the adult world and how to live in it and sometimes forget that other people arent the same as them, and hold others to the standards that they are (sometimes unfairly) held to themself, whether it be at school or from parents, many people don't realise that they’ve been expected to be perfect but it will come crashing down and that veil will be broken, and they'll be able to see that no, we dont all have to be perfect all the time, give the kid a break
tbh from the document it seems like a lot of personal drama and a bit of a slip up with the flashing map part. idk! i don’t think it’s really cancel-worthy or anything (edit: check my comment in the thread for further clarification on my thoughts)
As someone who's been affected + knows people directly affected. No. This is more than that. People who've been worked sick, friends of mine I've watched be worked sick. It's not personal drama. It's happened to several people. Several worked sick. This is a community. Not a sweatshop. Maps used to br fun.
24 hr maps, weekend maps, week maps. They all used to be for fun. Not... This
It's not personal drama, demanding work while sick and dropping someone for being under such stress and rushing people working for FREE is not personal drama
it’s volunteer work. if you have seen cheeteh z’s standards before, you 100% have no obligation to take part in their maps. while yes, they’re strict and everything and want deadlines met, again no one is obligated to take part. people join the map at their own request. if you cannot handle their rules and standards for their maps, just Don’t Interact. i’m sorry people have been worked sick, but genuinely if you’re that stressed about volunteer work, please please re-evaluate what you’re willing to put yourself through for something that is supposed to be fun and collaborative.
@@crestedcomet Buddy I think your misunderstanding just how deep this goes. I'm not surprised considering the video doesn't even cover the surface nor the doc.
Dude had a Union, he had people working for him. Legitimately. It was not volunteer work at that
@@HeavingSmilesI’m confused on how y’all couldn’t have just…left? If working on a MAP part is causing you be drained both physically and mentally, that should be a key indicator to simply let off from it. MAPs are completely volunteer work and you’re NOT being forced to continue to work on something that’s stressing you. I’m just not understanding how you couldn’t have left to join another map call that doesn’t require that much stress to be put on you?
Late to the party. I'm an ex friend of the user at 8:55 and I believe they're making their situation look worse than it possibly was. They used to have a pattern of making claims with shoddy or even no evidence in the past. If u see their document you can see they're actually the ones ghosting Chee with LOTS of context being left out, and they have a history with that behavior from back when I knew them. They state they began working with Chee with Mama Told Me but then say they'd been dealing with this for 4 years when the map call had only came out 2 years ago. It's possible they were misremembering but out of place things add up. Not to discredit that they had a bad experience at all, I'm not saying they didn't, but the discrepancies with their statements are suspicious at best and shows repeat behavior. They've been this way since they were 14 so it's quite funny to see they really haven't changed. Believe me or don't all I'm saying is take their recounting with a few grains of salt. To me, it looks like they jumped on the bandwagon a little bit.
Do not lie about knowing that user, as someone close to them. We have no idea who you are.
Oh do you know how old is that user you’re talking about rn?
@@HeavingSmiles Lol I'm not lying I'm just using an alt. I met them in 2019 when they identified as trans masc and bisexual, their birthday is the 22nd of August and their old fursona is a brown cat named Eli
I hope they are treating you well though, and are a good friend /gen. I just don't think it's fair that they're still getting to say stuff without proper proof and missing context and still get away with it. That doesn't show change.
@@ArtzZephyr Yes I do! Their birthday is the 22nd of August and they are currently 18 years old :)
I'm from an old friend group that has long since cut contact with them.
For those curious, I knew them as ofuks/o-fuks. I'm not going to doxx them to prove I knew them of course but I'm free to answer any questions 👍
*EDIT TWO:* CheetehZ has come out with a new video [ ruclips.net/video/bfxDD0ZVifs/видео.html ] including a google document [ docs.google.com/document/d/1zTr15qZFJOWC4QXW4Ss4MhJJ_y1uC6HPxsrprULhxZ4/edit ] which seems like a response to the situation at hand despite neglecting to address any of the criticisms head-on. The document is a script / concept for the video and is not a response to the drama aside from containing a list of 'mental health/burnout' resources. People are frustrated with him as the video is a storyboarded 'CAP' ("concept art prompt") but is framed like a MAP, including being separated into parts / etcetera, when he said he would no longer be hosting MAPs. I am going to try my best to screenshot everything Cheeteh has put out as well as the community responses & add them to the stash linked in the description [ edit: subfolder here -- sta.sh/212olednizpv ], but as long as the video remains up I would encourage viewers to take a look at it for yourselves!
*EDIT ONE:* I've been informed that OFUKITTY has since published a Google Document, which I did not see as unfortunately I was editing this video when it was posted. Would STRONGLY encourage anyone interested in this situation to view it, as it DOES have screenshots! docs.google.com/document/d/132hG9xqr0fH6zdX7-4iuAxw5ON_ZCjlytwtcyjaYhZA/edit
Please remember to keep all comments RESPECTFUL, but I would love to hear opinions on these topics!
How do you think that we can make the fandom more accessible for those with photosensitivity issues?
Do you think that MAPs are 'different' now, or are people being overdramatic?
What's the best way to handle a situation like this?
Looking forwards to having some thoughtful and insightful conversations
Alright let me give my opinions on the matter.
Firstly, I feel like the reason MAPs are different now is that the standards for "MAP quality" are higher. More storyboarded MAPs, less newer artists being allowed in, more popular artists being prioritized over less well known artists etc. Back in the early days, pretty much everyone was a beginner so they were less picky and tended to be more lax on quality guidelines. I feel it's unreasonable to expect a bunch of artists collaborating for FREE to be held to "professional standards." I think the best way to solve this is to just allow newer animators to join MAPs so they can get valuable experience. OR, to create MAPs specifically catered to underrated animators and new animators. I saw a few of these a couple years back and I thought they were a great idea. They may not get as popular as the massive storyboarded MAPs but they are very important for helping artists gain skills and experience. Without fresh talent entering the MAP scene it will inevitably stagnate as the more skilled older animators move on with their lives and no longer have time to host or join MAPs.
2nd the way to solve issues surrounding photosensitivity is very simple. A, you add a warning at the start of the video and/or in the title. B, just don't include sequences with flashing images. If people are worried about whether or not something is going to trigger photosensitive epliepsy, between 3-30 flashes a second is generally the range which triggers seizures. If you're STILL worried just tag it with flashing lights anyways. It's better to be safe than sorry.
3rd, I feel that the way Cheetz dealt with criticism and deadlines was very unprofessional. I don't think he's evil or anything but I do think that he shouldn't be hosting any more MAPs because clearly it's not working out for many of the people involved.
Having read the document, I can say that as a host of high level animation MAPs, CheetehZ has the responsibility to hold things together and make decisions based on what he expects to get done. People willingly volunteer to participate in such projects, and the final decision on how to guide the project is up to CheetehZ. And even if it were the case that they were under contract and being paid (which they are not), the animators would be obligated to produce their work to the quality and timeliness that is set forth by their project lead or they would be fired. If an animator cannot live up to those expectations, either because of being unable to finish their parts on time or to the quality set forth by their boss then they should work somewhere that is suited to their abilities or start their own projects ᓚᘏᗢ
hey i’m a part of this doc, just wanted to say that i see you 🥰
@@chrismusix5669yep I agree with this
A little late, but I think most people's criticism of CheetehZ is justified.
Ofukitty's examples of getting dropped look pretty bad. They read like a professional email but are strangely vague.
I see people in the comments getting mad or confused about how serious people are taking things, but I see know one mentioning that the seriousness started from CheetehZ. He treats dropping participants as the same as firing someone, he has strict deadlines to the point of people getting dropped with over %90 work done because they won't meet the deadline. It's very strangely strict for something that's "just a fan project," so I don't really blame the participants for taking it seriously.
My main issue with the photosensitive part is that it's just generally hard to look at. I get the idea of wanting to have every participant involved, but having the images change per frame is a bit much. I don't fault him for not thinking about it though, since photosensitivity doesn't seem to be thought of as much in animation. Even Pixar had to put out a less than stellar warning when it came to Incredibles 2. There are thankfully plenty of resources on what you can do if you're worried about that kind of stuff.
Overall, i do think that CheetehZ himself has set a higher and much stricter standard on himself and his MAP participants. I can't say if this has rubbed off on other MAP hosts, though.
This has blown way out of proportion, I don’t understand much about it because of how chaotic it is but I hate the fact that a literal teenager who made a small mistake is being compared to such terrible people.
A lot of people are saying that since it's a voluntary collaboration, it's the participants' fault if they are unable to meet the deadlines.
It is the job of a MAP host to make sure your participants are able & willing to complete their parts, and ideally on time. However, I think many people are forgetting that because MAPs are voluntary, there is no *meaningful* pressure on the host to get a MAP out on time. That's the biggest issue with Cheetah treating these as productions and not collaborations, (which is what they are, collaborations). Hosts are not the boss or "managers" of participants, they are in charge of simply keeping the MAP running in general. That does include dropping and accepting participants.
Deadlines only exist to give participants a goal to aim for. If you are requiring your artists to bend over backwards and work overtime on a volunteer project to meet deadlines that YOU are in control of, then you are not respecting your artists' time or effort that they've already put into the map. Especially considering in some of the messages, Cheetah is encouraging that collaborators be dropped before the deadline has even arrived and putting blame and responsibility on their partners.
("Hmm... end of the week might be too long" is going to kill me, by the way.)
Obviously it's fine to drop someone from a MAP if they're not giving WIPs or responding, that's fine, but a simple "hey I need to see a wip or I have to drop you, sorry" will work so much better than some of these messages, which read like a human resources email and lack any compassion or patience.
There is no financial loss if the MAP is delayed or an extension is given. Ideally, you don't GIVE a public release date, advertise the release date after it's ready to be posted. There IS however, a huge problem if you're blaming your participants for being late, for life getting in the way, or "keeping the team waiting." That's not the appropriate attitude for a MAP host to have towards the people who are making their project happen, and I promise you are already stressed about it.
A participant should not feel guilty for ever joining or expendable. These projects are not productions. If you want to treat it like a production, treat it like networking and build up the community, instead of being unforgiving.
Side note, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to be called out for Other scummy things if they're currently being criticized for one scummy thing. "What does that have to do with it" is meaningless. It's the same person, it should at least be brought up or addressed, "relevant" or not.
so fucking sick of all this drama. like seriously, i just wanna watch and enjoy my silly little cat animations. so glad i joined the community during it’s worst 🙂
leave it up to the warriors community to make a mountain out of a mole hill
what made me very uncomfortable about this whole fiasco is that I'm not saying I completely disagreed with the criticisms floating around the past few years, but as soon as this happened everyone took the opportunity to berate and dogpile a brown child.
I find it very disconcerting to see a bunch of ADULTS ragging on a teenager. how old is Sparroet? I think it's very telling to hear them talk about wanting professionalism and beautiful pieces for their portfolio (at the same time the discussion on not having professional-grade maps is happening) and then saying that said teenager put them in the er because they're a pushover. I hate to say it, but if sparroet was the adult in this situation, then it was their responsibility to handle themselves, not blame a child. that goes for any adults in this situation. people saying cheeteh ruined their self esteem, I'm sorry a teenager cannot do that by hosting passion projects outside of school, that's your own problem and responsibility as an ADULT.
it's just weird to me. a lot of these artists are older as the fandom has aged considerably, and I do think everyone was very, very fast to bully and berate a child making content of non-white culturally significance with music about south american colonialism.
big agree.
i read these docs in the comments and it just reeks of "i have personal insecurities i'm going to project onto cheeteh z because he was unlucky enough to trigger them for me without him even knowing said insecurities existed in the first place".
i've also definitely noticed online that black and brown artists/content creators in general tend to have more unhinged people go for them and tend to have people cancel them at the drop of a hat for more minor things + faster than a lot of white artists/content creators.
Cheetahz isnt a child theyre 19. but yea
@@urmom-kj1lwAs of current, yes. But at the time (which is what we’re talking about) they were a minor
This is way too late and I no longer associate myself with the Warrior Cats fandom but I wanted to check to see what was up with Cheeteh and this is just... stupid. There's no other way to put it than that. The criticism for the photosensitivity - AS SOMEONE WHO HAS ISSUES WITH THAT - was ridiculous, you can't adjust to fit everyone's needs and the warning is your biggest clue. It is up to you, as the viewer, to recognize if something's not right. This is just back to the "everything needs a trigger warning" argument. And the overreaction to him having deadlines and sticking to them, which is something that will be useful to him in the future anyways, doesn't make sense to me. It's volunteer work. Seriously. No one's forcing you to join or to finish. "Oh but what about the social pressure for clout-" get offline. Genuinely, just get offline. This fandom is pouring gasoline onto a campfire and crying over the damage it's doing. No wonder so many people have left it, there's nothing enjoyable because the fans create controversy and bully teenagers off the internet over NOTHING. Good Gods, I'm glad I left when I did.
Dang I did not expect to see my art in this haha
Anyways, now I know what the drama is about and just saying that while I am an animator for the SATS map, I don’t want to get caught up in any drama. The reason I work on map projects is to have fun improving my animation skills, not so much worrying about the actual project. I can only speak for myself, but working on the project definitely has opened the door for being able to receive useful constructive criticism on my art and animations, and hopefully the same for others working on it
Hope everyone else is doing ok
Gosh I love the Warriors fandom but it is wayyyyy too hostile to its juggernauts. People get canceled left and right. A lot of times it’s for valid reasons but in cases like these the celebrity seems to slip up and say bad things, like we ALL DO, and then get canceled and demonized. We need to realize that the juggernauts of this fandom, and every other kind of fandom as well, are humans and will say stupid stuff. If anyone were also put in the spotlight, I’m sure we could find a million flaws too. But we have to stop canceling people and destroying their lives for stupid stuff that we all do time to time. Welcome to being a human.
This drama when it comes to the part in particular is super dumb in my opinion. He gave a warning to photosensitivity. Yes, what he said was wrong, but he apologized and was forgiven by the commenter. He even took the time to take it down and discuss with other animators and alternative way to make the map more safe for photosensitive viewers.
Nobody deserves backlash THIS bad over a silly little comment when he already apologized and did his best to make amends. Jesus christ you guys, we all say stupid shit once in a while. We all make mistakes.
However, I’m taking animator’s concerns into consideration when it comes to the way he allegedly treats those who work on these maps. Those claims were serious.
I'm gonna go ahead and say this, the things Cheetah is getting canceled over aren't really that valid. Like saying someone is killing a vibe doesn't warrant an entire cancelation and the person Cheetah apologized to already forgave them. The fact that people who weren't actually affected by situation are saying they won't forgive Cheetah, do they not realize how entitled that is? To essentially say you don't forgive someone in a situation where you're not the victim is so invalidating to the actual people involved. Not only that, I'm seeing a lot of ALLEGATIONS and RUMORS with no proof to back up. Did no one learn from the Kwite situation to not just believe claims or are people too hung up on getting mad over a LUXURY, yes art is a luxury go cry about it. Like, y'all are gonna ruin someone's life and art career because you guys are just thirsting for drama and clout. That's litteraly all this boils down to and it angers me to the core, like the emotional intelligence is lacking so bad.
yeah...i read the docs in the comments since i didn't have the patience for this video's godawful mic quality, and to summarize it just sounds like this:
*MAP participant:* i am applying to do (MAP) with (deadline) and i will be sending updates as required.
*cheeteh z:* okay cool. please follow the rules i have explicitly stated in my MAP document so things can move smoothly.
*MAP participant:* something happened in my personal life/with my collab partner(s) and things are not working out the way i hoped they would. instead of communicating that there's problems on my end and taking my time so i don't get stressed out, i'm going to bum rush this/not communicate something is wrong.
*cheeteh z:* this is great, but i really don't want to overstress anyone, so i'm gonna limit how many MAP parts you're taking on because you are literally 12/you did not communicate that you already had things to work on, so i'm going to debate if i want you on for future projects as you have communication issues and that's not conducive. sorry dude
*MAP participant:* no. you don't understand. the rules don't apply to me in particular because a meteor set my home on fire and i chose to neglect my physical health for this, even though there's no indication i told anyone this and continued to go on business as usual. WHAT THE FUCK??? I'M WRITING A GOOGLE DOC ABOUT THIS NOW
*cheeteh z:* ???
as someone with epilepsy,, this is literally so overreacted help
i dont have epilepsy, but im pretty sure that they’re a ton of other maps that have flashes without no warnings, this just seems like an excuse to hate on him
4:35 oh hi that’s me, i’m @theglitchsprite. i phrased my tweet a little wrong. due to my autism and visual snow syndrome i am photosensitive, but not to the extent where it can severely hurt or kill me, it can give me headaches and after-images that block my vision for a minute or two but nothing more! the outcome is still the same and that is that it was a terrible decision to have the part that way. this video is a great summary of the entire situation!
if i may add my own take on the whole community turning serious situations into small nitpicks and grudges: i believe that both have a place to exist but not at the same time. this community has a serious issue with tone-deafness as every time an artist or popular creator gets called out for something serious everyone immediately offloads their personal issues just because they feel like they can, i believe cheeteh’s stories and the way that his maps have hurt the community should be discussed but in the same breath as accessibility issues is not the time and place.
we have a problem with never speaking our mind with small things when we think of it. we always save it to keep the hate going. to fuel the fire. everyone offloads their small annoyances just because they can and to feel morally superior because they felt that someone was bad before everyone else.
we need to start speaking our mind on popular creators when it’s appropriate and not just when it’s “cool” to hate them.
I've never been a big fan of Cheetehz or their the effect he's had on the community (the only MAPs I see completed anymore are storyboarded AUs*), but this hardly seems fair.
Like, uh, making mistakes is allowed? I hate how in this community there's this pressure to cut all ties to a creator as soon as they make the smallest mistake, and they have to be deemed a bad person forever, even if they apologize.
The things mentioned in the beginning were ones he'd apologized for _and_ made an effort to fix. One person can't know everything and sometimes people slip up. I never want to become popular in this fandom because I know I can't be the perfect, all-knowing, 100% politically-correct-since-birth statue I'd be expected to be. People shouldn't be put on pedestals and have impossible expectations pushed on them just for getting a lot of attention. We should be having fun with cat books, not building a social hierarchy where some are unreachable and others will never have their voices heard unless they tear someone else down.
And the working conditions thing. I know this community is full of neurodivergent children, but the person on the other side of the screen can't know your situation unless you tell them. Maybe Cheetehz has been a cruel host, and if he has, then that should be called out so things can change. But at the end of the day, MAPs are volunteer projects and the responsibility to resign if you don't feel comfortable is on you.
*(the lack of variety is annoying but nothing I'd blame on him alone or want him to be canceled over)
I literally got so mad when tropical Scourge was change to pirate Scourge. Like I enjoyed the design of wearing a skull as a helmet because that makes sense for cats to do, but a *fucking cat shaped pirate hat* makes no sense, and absolutely killed the tone for me. It also made me mad to hear that several animators had to make new animations to adjust to this change too. Then a similar thing happened with Bramblefur where people tried drawing connections to Native American culture when there was little to no reason to suspect anything like that.
I’m less irritated with Cheetah for not having a spine and more at the fandom for finding things to get mad at because they want to feel like a victim and have their 7 seconds of fame.
And I don’t even want to hear anyone try to tell me that’s not the case. It is. There’s a huge difference between a fictional cat character wearing a skull/ wearing the pelt of another cat to hide their scars/ because they’re insane and HUMAN indigenous culture.
Fr. Wasnt it the same with Cheeteh's cleopatra MAP? People were all up in arms about it, even when there were actual egyptians in the comments trying to tell everyone that nobody was offended. And you know it was just a bunch of bored white kids complaining in the first place.
Honestly at this point its just people looking for something to be mad at. The whole "listen to minorities!!" argument is really meaningless when A) No actual harmful stereotypes are being shown intentionally and B) its mostly white folks complaining because they wanna scratch that "white saviour" itch. Its disgusting.
@@geministrial950 that wasnt che's map
@@Polygonyall Oh well. My point still stands. This fandom is way too comfortable attacking others under the guisa of "social justice".
Things like that never make sense. Where do people draw the conclusion of someone “mocking” or “appropriating” a culture because they drew a cat with a skull or skinned cat? Yea, if it was clearly representing some kind of symbolism reminiscent of indigenous culture, it would make far more sense. But flaming a creator and burning them at the stake because a cat went crazy and skinned another cat? That’s childish and trying to make an excuse to hate someone.
People grasp at straws to cause any sort of drama.
it's nice having a comprehensive summary of what happened !
that being said, I was a little confused at the end as the order in which the topics were spoken about implied that Cheeteh's retirement message came after his ex co-host's accusations, which was not actually the case. the message from the co-host came after the retirement announcement, hence them asking Cheeteh to leave them out of the post (which was then quietly edited)
I don't agree with some of the takes I see about TigerNoir though. Warrior Cats has extremely violent content, especially once animated. if there can be 15 different graphic versions of Scourge ripping Tigerstar's belly open on RUclips, fully accessible by teens, something that teen official animated / filmed medias would never do... then I think that gunshots, which are both much cleaner and also actually portrayed in a lot of official media directed at teens (or even kids : the Incredibles show multiple armed men, one of which fires at a protagonist, for example) are completely fair game. if you go further back and look at the animated series directed at kids and teens in the 90s, you'd find a lot of guns.
the MAP being cancelled because it would have been completed at an insensitive time is a good decision in my opinion, but I don't think the project was a bad idea nor that it couldn't or shouldn't be finished at some point in the future.
note that I mostly say teens, as warrior cats animations are almost always specifically marked as "not for kids" when being uploaded (as can be seen by the comment section existing). if children find their way on the 13+ RUclips, I personally consider it is not the responsibility of random content creators to censor their content, but that of the parents to monitor their kids' internet consumption.
Tigernoir had gun violence towards children within the map, as far as I am aware, and they cancelled it because of Uvalde, which was a horrific shooting.
@@sprigopine I am aware. at that time I did see the full storyboard, and it might be a cultural difference, but I didn't think it was too much for 13+ teens to see. it was not significantly more violent or explicit than official media marketed towards teens when I was one (early 2010s).
I am also aware of why it was cancelled. this is why I said that I agree that it would have been insensitive at the time, and think it's good it was cancelled under those circumstances.
It’s important to mention that gun violence against children is unfortunately a common occurrence in America. A cartoon cat’s death isn’t applicable to real life events like gun violence against children is.
@@nothinpurrsonal Yall have to realize that there are people who live outside of America
@@nothinpurrsonal context is indeed important ! and I get why american folks would be more careful around those subjects. however, TigerNoir didn't feature a school shooting. that would have been completely tone deaf and uncomfortable. the context was completely different, and the gun violence portrayed was "period-typical" to the style of movie the project was referencing. most people did not think it was uncomfortable at the time, before the school shooting happened, which makes me think that the project was never a bad idea, only fell at the wrong timing, which no one could have foreseen.
Honestly, I don’t know how bad it is that I’m doing as much, but with all the drama with people I like/support, I’ve started ignoring it. I try not to support the bad people once I find out, but I’ve given up on just stopping *all* interaction because there are just so many people.
Either way, I hope everyone involved can leave this situation safely, and thank you so much for making this video cause I didn’t even know anything was happening at all
I’ve also started more or less ignoring drama and becoming desensitized to it
@@phoenixthewolf6301 Fair :')
It's what makes me most afraid of eber becoming notable (not that I think it's gonna happen but when I see smaller people get more known I think about it) cause a lot of people have opinions and ways they do things that aren't 'woke' and it can drown out when people actually do things so just
ignoring it is so much easier sobs
I tend to ignore drama a lot ( which I suggest a lot of people should do, because drama isn't something to be strived for and the more you pay attention to it, the more it'll happen. Of course- sometimes it is needed- I know that, ) HOWEVER
I will say that the way you adressed this situation that I was very new to, was very well-informed and you shined light onto both sides. You truly showed everyone's opinions without stepping over someone else and people like me who had no idea about the situation will know almost everything just based off of this video.
Very well done, you really did well
Also lovely picture you made. I love how the colors blend in the background, how you mixed different Autumn colors for the cat, and how you created a silhouette of who I assume are your clan mates in the background. Lovely picture indeed.
as a small thing i think it would be better if like things were made for photosensative viewers to not be as or at all effect by something photosensative like glasses, a loooottt of media is photosentative to some because of effects and that is a high part of media and added in mental effects as well. so instead of basically everyone having to change stuff for photosentastivity it would be more beneficial to give something for photosentastivity on there end to be better.
People need to stop putting teenagers in such a high pedalstal. Is he wrong for how he acted when he received elepsy concerns. Yes. But people literally comparing unpaid, optional volunteer work to work place abuse is insane. "The deadline and the work is affecting my mental health", then leave. You are not going to be in a financial crisis just by leaving a volunteer work.
If it's paid work, I 100% understand the outrage over than but this isn't it, and people comparing them, a 19 year old angsty teenager, to Draikinator, a, now 30, year old, is insane.
I really don't get some of these arguments. How dare this MAP stray from cannon! How dare there be multiple parts to create a story! I don't want to read, I want to watch pretty colors on the screen from events that I already know about!
The deadline thing is pretty dumb too. If you're given a deadline it's there for a reason, deadlines are hell for me so I don't join any animation things. I don't get most of these arguments, they're just personal gripes! Oh, this guy is popular and people are focusing on his MAPs, how dare.
They STARTED with a good argument about ignoring potentially life threatening flashing lights and then it just spiraled into "creator bad because I don't like him".
Everyday I'm more relieved I left the warrior cats community for Ninjago.
Lmao I don’t blame you
Be so for real this place isn't better it's littered with mysoginistic bullshit and racism
As a ninjago fan, I thought joining Warriors was good but... I'm glad I didn't. I don't blame you here.
there was a warning, if someone with photosenitivity decides to ignore that warning and still watch it and get harmed it's their own fault. people have to take responsibility for their own choices, if there's a big sign at a swimming pool that warns about deep water and someone who can't swim reads that sign then goes in the deep water anyway and almost dies by drowning is it the pools fault or the person's own fault for taking their own, decided risk? no one is forcing photosensitive people to watch a map with flashing images, i feel like all these people making such a big fuss are just trying to play victim bc they want attention. this is the most dumbest drama i've ever seen i swear so many warrior fans cry and make a big deal about everything like 5 year olds
dang, i had no idea all this other stuff was going on, all i knew was that cheeta had made a bad decision with that one map parts flashing [bc even with someone who doesnt have epilespsy but just sensitive eyes, it was hard to look at; plus with it going so fast its impact was a lot less] im glad its getting rehosted and people are getting the help they need though!!
Thank you for making this video cuz I was like hella confused at first but now I know it was a situation of mismanagement and not anything super malicious on purpose. Twitter it seems to make mountains out of molehills and I thought the situation was a bit more serious than it actually was so thank you for bringing more attention to this. This really reminds me of the foxy boxi situation in the animation meme community. I think more people should do more research before jumping on bandwagons like what happened recently because it just ultimately ends up as a big trash fire it's no winners in the end.
Ooooooh noooo they put a young adult on a pedastal and when they tripped a bit and showed they were human had the illusion shattered and cancelled them for it.
Okay but fr this whole drama is so fking dumb, this warranted an apology from them, not having a truck of drama tossed on their head and told they're nothing short of a villian.
CheetehZ is doing the best he can, everyone messes up as stated, and sometimes people just aren't happy with what people can provide.
CheetehZ had the warnings, it's other's fault if they don't follow it. The comments were kind of rude but he apologized and tried fixing it.
The not being patient for maps is kind of lame, like I understand taking a whole year to finished a map part being insane, but giving someone 24-48 hours to complete a map is stupid, people have lives, people have other things they have to do.
The AU thing is cool, just because people don't want to read a script doesn't make a map lame, it would be the same thing as drawing a meme for a story that no one knows about.
The MAP community really is dying. It used to be fun and anyone used to be able to participate but now you have to have Studio Ghibli quality animation to even join one lol
This is a great video. Everything that’s been going on has been worrying just by how hard it is to follow, so videos like these that do pretty good recaps and try to be as unbiased as they can are very much needed!
As far as the flashing goes, he did say that he were fixing the part to be a marvel intro styles thing in the serpant and the stars MAP, its on his RUclips community tab
Thank you so much for the angle you came at this video, I am hardly able to find videos documenting a controversy without it being for the express purpose of making commentary on the situation. It’s very appreciated
holy soup what... this is genuinely stupid. i get that they didnt properly respond to epilepsy concerns but oh boy what is that about anything else? this community is just awful.
Incredibly well made video! As a 25 year old who has mostly grew away from the fandom at the time this stuff went down I was very confused by the whole thing, so thank you for documenting it without adding to the discourse. The warriors fandom is something ive seen grow since I was 10 years old, and i think most people who partake in these controversies are the same way. Theres a trigger happiness that happens anytime someone misteps, where people with good intentions end up muddying the water through dog piling and like you said twitter telephone
Dang thank you for documenting this! Even while being apart of the SatS server I didnt fully understand what happened since I never saw the actual accusations and threads on twitter, I agree fully with your end statement about documenting things like this, awesome video!
I’m so confused with this whole situation, there’s accusations left and right and some of them just seem absolutely ridiculous
I’m not saying Cheeteh is perfect, there are times where they definitely have needed to apologise and fix what they have done, but the MAPs are fantastic and the styles and storytelling are brilliant, there are so many people who have done so much worse than Cheeteh (e.g. Sagutoyas, Draikinator, etc)
THIS VIDEO IS SO GOOD struggling to figure out what else to say BUT THIS IS AWESOME ASTER!!
Thank you for the video! it was very unbiased and informative and i appreciate that! (love the speedpaint too!)
I think this is so silly and stupid. An animation with a photosensitive warning?? This is incredibly common. Like, half of the animations including maps on here. Somebody just wanted to swipe in on an animator who has done nothing wrong on his way out lol.
Okay, except for the fact that this isn't the only issue people have with him at all. The hostile work environment and unfair profiting off of others is also a serious problem.
Plus, it doesn't matter how common flashing stuff is in animation. It still can seriously harm people. As a community, should we not strive to be inclusive of everyone regardless of disability?
@@sillyspiderSupporting people with disabilities shouldn't have to mean "you can never make videos with flashing images" when "you should warn before flashing images so that those affected can choose not to see it" works just as well, without restricting peoples' creativity.
@@sillyspider As someone with a disability, you have to realize that people can include you all you want, but the world will never revolve around you. YOU are the only one responsible for curating your internet experience. Nobody else will.
Damn.
I'm not into interacting with the fandom anymore but Zephyr is my homie but I wish they hadn't started this. I personally don't have anything against them for it since Twitter is basically just a battleground with ammo just waiting to be used. All I know is I don't want fame even when I DO post animations now
Thank you for this info as I haven’t found it anywheres else, but a little off topic:
Your art is so cool and pretty, it was so satisfying to watch in the background
Ik this is very off topic and not on theme for this videos topic but I’d just like to say it ❤
this physically hurt to watch
i hate the warrior cats fandom so, SO much. yall ruined it for me.
I love how well you explained the situation and i love the art :)
im not really in the amv or warriorcats fandoms at all anymore, but im sure everyone can see that yes, cheeteh did do something wrong, but no they didnt deserve all the backlash, it was human error, humans arent perfect and its gross to hold someone to that standard
people have done worse things in the fandom, like pedophilia, zoophilia, SA, and other things. drama being caused over a fucking map part is one of the silliest things I've ever witnessed on the internet, what a time to be alive.
with that being said, I don't think cheetz is a bad person for saying one comment like "nah youre killing the vibe" and everyone goes batshit crazy over it. they're literally a teenager/young adult, and was probably in one of his highest moments at that time, but that doesn't instantly make him a villain. im not siding with him or trying to defend his actions, but its really petty that people let a RUclips comment section fight become a good person's downfall.
we're all human, bruh, we're gonna make mistakes at some point.
also an edited note: I really appreciate that you don't curse when quoting tweets, posts, or comments. its very professional and I like that.
you have absolutely no idea how much i respect someone who is capable of documenting an argument without broadcasting their opinion.
really, thank you.
i think its audience dependent in regards to photosensitivity. I dont really care if gaspar noe arthouse movie has all strobes everyone watching the movie knows what they are getting into and all involved are grown adults. I mostly care about kids/teen media that has it.
Also i think the timeline is a bit hard to discern here:
the criticism comments mostly come from the second community post. where people were already frustrated by two vauge apologies that dont give the full context.
After the first community post i was in contact with someone in the SATS team giving advice about accessibility that was passed to cheeteh. I felt as though my advice was taken in bad faith which prompted the comment
Yes! Sorry about the lack of timeline consistency; I was aware that your (and Pinewhisker's, I believe?) comment was posted on the second community post, I just thought that the two of you provided the best-worded and most insightful critiques regarding the actual photosensitivity issues, so I wanted to put them in the part of the video that discusses the photosensitivity issues more directly, if that makes any sense? I thought your point about the audience, re: age and awareness of personal photosensitivity was one of the best points that could have been made and it actually personally changed my perspective when this was all coming out.
I wasn't aware of the fact that you were (directly) in contact with the SATS team, though, which definitely adds another dimension to the community posts... sigh.
yea that makes sense! im not mad at anything really abt this vid just pointing it out for clarification. ty tho i know i can be a bit scary and aggressive when it comes to this topic and i struggled so much to keep my cool
I was only in contact with one person on the SATS team who came to me on their own accord and i wont name them because i respect them and commend them for coming to me for advice despite knowing that i was a bit moody after the first comm post lol
@@PolygonyallOh no, I didn’t think you were being scary/etc at all in any of your posts! It’s a really important topic to keep in mind and obviously something that’s very important for you personally. And I guess it’s good to hear that someone did approach you about that; hopefully all of this rubbish can lead to some actual positive changes regarding accessibility in the MAP community as a whole.
I’m just going to put this out there, that although cheetah is an adult, he is not fully matured yet. The average human being gets a fully developed frontal lobe at around the age of 24. I understand that people are mad at him for all of the bad things he’s done, but he’s a person too, and we might not know what’s going on in his outside life. This useless drama does nothing and it just makes things worse. I understand people are backlashing him for commenting: “Nah, your killing the vibe”, but I’m sure he meant it to be harmless. I understand all the criticism, though, and I do wish Cheetah would just apologize.
“someone watching the video might not know what theyre getting into even with a warning” then what the fuck is the point of warnings.
as someone who has worked for these maps and watched the maps i honestly think "its too confusing" is very subjective. whether you understand the plot of the AU or not really depends on how much of the books you have read, notably with serpent sol.
also leo/friedtiiger's point about the discussion going from ableism to 'i dont get it so im justified to hate him :/' . its important to note he hasnt been the best host + dismissed concerns about accessibility, but it's definitely pulling away from the actual concerning behavior to just bitch about something you dont even have a personal stake in like OFUKITTY and sparroet do.
i dont want to add anything but thank you so much for this video! You did a great job putting this together and i just give my thanks to you. 💛
i didn't expect to be featured in one of these before my trip haha!!
i do wish that you had at least contacted me and the rest of the people mentioned here, but i do not blame you for that as my discord isn't as public as i thought it would be at this point. the thread was mostly made when i didn't know how the public would react to my story, as many of the people there were going left and right just bashing the projects at the time and not the actual work environment in them. i do have to salute you though for actually saying o-fuck instead of ofu. it honestly took me a minute when i first watched the video.
i do hope there is at least a video update on the document, or at least you remake it so that you don't accidentally spread misinfo. as of right now, its mostly being directed towards me looking like as if i am just throwing this around rather then me getting my points fact checked my multiple former hosts and friends of chee. im sorry if thats coming off as rude, but in a video thats supposed to inform people much better on this situation, i think you shouldve waited a bit more before making it.
if you want to interview me further on my experiences, i will gladly do so as the information is in the document. if anyone else has questions, please just ask me; i promise i don't bite. if you want to ask here, that's also fine, but just know that i am going to be on a plane trip, so i will not be able to get as many out as i would like.
Hi! Thanks for your comment; I'm very sorry I didn't interview anyone here as I didn't want it going around that I was like... 'making a callout' or something to that effect. I was less looking to make a video in the way that most people make callout or 'drama' videos and more looking to document this discourse and the common public opinions happening at the time, like a 'time capsule' or record of what's been going on.
Unfortunately this *was* very poor timing on my part as I was editing this video post-recording it when your document dropped and I didn't see it before posting. While I would love to have a better way to correct the record, RUclips doesn't have many features (that I am aware of) for changing an already uploaded video without reuploading the whole thing and thus losing the comments, etc -- and making a followup does seem a bit... tacky on my end. (If there is a way to do so, though, PLEASE let me know as I'd love for this to be as accurate as possible!) I hope the pinned comment will be enough for most viewers to understand that you *did* have screenshots, and I am really very sorry if my wording made it seem like you were just "throwing allegations around". I tried to do my best to note that while there wasn't evidence provided at the time that it was almost certainly true, but maybe I didn't quite stick the landing on that -- and I sincerely apologize if that was the case.
The reason the video was posted so quickly is that I was visiting family this weekend and left my mic at my dorm, so I figured I should finish it before the weekend was over in order to avoid the perfectionism temptation to rerecord audio etcetera. Maybe not the *best* of reasons; but to be fair I wasn't expecting more information to come out since it seemed to be dying down -- though this was perhaps shortsighted on my end.
And yes! I actually saw your twitter thread about how to pronounce your name a while back (Elon apparently thinks I like your Tweets and he is correct. Rare for him...) Very fun word (?) to say!
If there's anything I could do better short of reuploading the video to call attention to your document, though, please let me know -- I do feel awful about misrepresenting the situation, however unintentional, and would like for your story (and LunarTempest's, and DemiM0n's, and everyone else's) to be heard. Really sorry again for all of... this!
if i’m going to be honest, it’s really a time to maybe try and work on either a part two or at least a remade verison of this. as majority of the comments now are siding w cheeteh because of the misinformation in it
@@OFUKITTY I completely understand that something like this could be emotionally exhausting, since the situation is very volatile and personal to you, however I do have to disagree with your statement.
I don't think I presented any misinformation in this video, nor do I control the responses or reactions of the people who viewed it. If you view the responses which 'side' with Cheeteh -- (which I also do not think are a majority here; most of them are fairly nuanced) -- as a failure on my part, then I am afraid that you have misunderstood my motivations. I made this to document what was going on, not to 'push' one 'side' or the other of this argument. If I'd wanted to 'cancel' Cheeteh I would have done so in a much more opinionated manner.
The only statement I made which is *now* misinformation, which it was not at the time of scripting and recording, is that you didn't have any screenshots. The statement that you did not have any screenshots *in your initial Twitter thread* is *still true.* "Now given the lack of screenshots here" is not a statement that precludes screenshots from existing later somewhere else.
I have pinned a comment which directly addresses this and linked to your document, pinned it *twenty minutes after* the video initially went up, and as I'm sure you're aware it is very difficult to post a RUclips comment without seeing the pinned comment. Additionally, I *never* called your claims into direct question, and even took care several times to attempt to mitigate bad faith interpretations of the lack of screenshots. (1:32 , 9:16 , 9:54 )
*If you read the comments, I don't think a single one discredits you due to a perceived lack of screenshots.* All of the comments that "agree" with Cheeteh are citing other reasons.
I will not be making a part two to this video, nor will I be taking it down. If you or someone else would like to make a video detailing your experiences, I am more than happy to include it in the pinned comment here and/or promote it in a community post or whatever you deem fit.
I understand that it can be really upsetting to see people disagreeing with you in the comments section of a video like this (trust me, I've been there), but you have to remember that Cheeteh has a lot of fans (who would've been upset at something like this regardless), and that people are allowed to make up their own minds when presented with evidence. I tried my best to not impact the viewpoint that people walked away with.
I believe that I have done my due diligence in presenting accurate information in this video, so I hope you can understand why I made this decision.
@@sunstartle never said that i don’t want people disagreeing w me. i mean the information in the said video can give off that impression that the other said is in bad faith, especially with the tigernoir situation as i’m seeing people calling others sensitive and snowflakes for not wanting to have media of children getting shot right after a school shooting.
you might’ve not said it, but ima be honest people don’t just read docs after watching videos, they assume what the video has is the current information. you have multiple people in the comment section only referring to the video and just assuming that the stuff in the doc is petty drama from years ago. i have people from the doc comjng to me concerned that they might be in the wrong because of these.
i never wanted videos on this to begin with. i don’t like the idea of people profiting off of something that happened to me and other artists, i know your intentions are good and you want to spread the word, but it goes out of the window when at the end you say it’s because YOU want too be nosy and get all of the tea.
i’m not trying to be rude or ignorant. but considering the fact that you would rather defend the video then at least try to do something you offered in the beginning.
@@OFUKITTY I want to document these actions for people so that they’re aware of what’s going on. I don’t think it’s fair to expect everyone to be left in the dark unless they do hours and hours of research. My channel is too small to be monetized but even if it was I don’t think it’s wrong to profit off of the *effort and time* I put into this video.
I never offered to take down the video or make a part two. Please reread my initial comment.
Unfortunately, this is what happens when you post things online. If you post a tweet publicly, you are allowing people to screenshot it and share it as they wished. Just because it’s not getting the reaction you wanted doesn’t mean that you get to control or be in the ear of everyone who talks about it. I think it’d show a distinct lack of journalistic integrity on my end to be taking ‘behind the scenes’ information from one ‘side’ of the ‘debate’ and not the other.
*You have more subscribers than I do.*
If you want to make a video about your own experiences, I will promote it here & wherever else. It’ll probably get more reach than mine would anyways, and if nothing else I am *all for more information being shared* across the board.
If you have any examples of *actual bias* shown in my video, please let me know. No one is perfect and it’s distinctly possible that I missed the mark on my goal. But if your simple issue is with this being documented, then I’m afraid that I can’t help you with that.
I’m really not looking to upset you or make an enemy of you. I’m very sorry about what you and others had to go through with Cheeteh, but I don’t think your initial thread failed to properly summarize the information provided in the document and I think it was worded very well. That’s why I included it.
Also they mentioned that they were leaving The community (Multi Animator Projects) in their "Coming soon..." video so it's an excuse imagine not wanting to get sick from seizures how vibe killing (I commented on their apology and I wasn't the only unhappy person with their apology)
wc fandom when a teenager acts like a teenager 😮
So we getting angry at multi animator projects for having multiple animators????
i left this community like a few years back and would pop in every now and then just to see certain projects n such. and now im reminded to as the reason why i ended up leaving lol,,, there’s way too much damn drama and it’s never handled well. warriors will always have a special little place in my
heart but seeing shit like this happening so often is crazy. ion think the dude is super innocent but the way this is being handled is 😭??
Major edit 8 months later: holy shit I can’t believe how dumb this whole fiasco was. My opinions has changed since then but I still stand by my OWN opinion the way cheeteh responded to my first comment in the video was jarring ( I get it was just in the moment ). At the end of the day he had put a waring for the flashing images and even made an alternative, I don’t think there was any bad intentions. Honestly this whole drama would’ve been avoided if the crew members and co hosts for SATS talked to cheeteh ( although i assume they probably did ). Btw I’m only reffeing to my experience with the photosensitive situation, not about the pressing artists thing later on in map production ( I wasn’t aware of that until after cheetehs apology 7:44 )
Edit Edit: sorry that it sounds like I’m putting cheeteh to a standard, I promise that’s not my intent. This whole drama isn’t outrageous anymore, it’s just sad
Hey, don't be so down on yourself! I think that this was a discussion that needed to be had at some point (re: accessibility of MAPs) and you conducted yourself incredibly politely throughout the whole thing. I don't think it's wrong that you accepted his apology, either, because he was apologizing for the things he said which he said *directly to you*. If anyone was the victim of specifically the photosensitivity issues, it would have been you for being dismissed like that and the people who were negatively impacted by the eyestrain, so it was your place to do so.
Also, I am so sorry if I made it sound like I thought your grammar was bad ^^; I meant that statement to apply to all of the screenshots, because I reworded almost every single one to make them easier to say into a microphone lol.
I really hope that you're able to walk away from this completely fine, because you absolutely didn't do anything wrong here and I need you to know that
@@sunstartle Thanks so much for the kind words lol ^^
I honestly think you were very entitled and extremely out of line to even do that. There's a huge rule in the art community its called "dont tell me what to draw unless you're paying me." Or "don't give unwarranted criticism". Wanna know why? Because its entitled to demand someone else's art accommodate you without offering to pay, like you're special just because you have epilepsy. I'm going to tell you just once, Cheetah was significantly nicer than I would've been. Because I wouldn't hold back my rage against entitlement.
@@Deadaccounty i hope you know, that if you tried to pull this shxt in the main art fandom, you would've been torn to pieces. We don't care
@@Beastfolk maybe take your own advice, because I'm simply calling out the bull in a harsh way. You wanna act like an adult? Make your own art, but don't go crying when people start demanding stuff from you. In fact, I could use the excuse you're bullying me because I'm autistic, but I'm not. So maybe learn how to actually read, before replying.
im here a bit late, but came to figure out y Cheeteh Z has been quiet for the past 6 months.... this gave me the answers i was looking for, or as least an idea as to y hes been quiet, thank u
Edit: love the drawing btw
You guys forget that this isn't ONLY on Cheeteh. It was multiple artists that ALL agreed to add this effect with their art. This was a team effort. Stop bashing only one person. This isnt even worth bashing them for. They had a warning, if you have photosensitivity you cant expect the entire world to just change to fit your specific needs. Just don't watch the video. You can live without ONE video of animated cat murder. This is exactly why i left this community years ago. I was young and surrounded by drama, way too much stress. I feel bad for the artists who do this work and feel proud of it being manipulated by their fans and community into changing things for a small group of people. Even after it was changed, y'all are still dog piling them. What the fuck?
firstly, this is much more than just a warning about flashing lights.
second, the main concern was that this would be in the final MAP which, despite having a warning at the beginning, cannot be predicted once 3-4 minutes into the project.
third, it's literally in this exact video where it's stated that the artists weren't informed of what "effect" their art was going to be used for, don't spread misinformation when it's literally right in front of your face. even if it were, does that diminish the criticism because "well everyone else did it too!1!"? no, of course the other artists would also be held accountable for this by anyone with sense.
fourth, there are disabled people who spoke up (and still are speaking up) about this with valid concerns and you, who isn't even photosensitive, dismissing them with a "the world doesn't revolve around you!" is disgusting.
it's not "fandom toxicity", it's when a person has dealt with criticisms over a long period of time over and over and still hasn't improved from them, then goes on to be forgiven by people who aren't even victims. even the inability to view situations like this as nothing more than "drama" is the reason why fandom culture is stunted in its growth and instead the same cesspool of toddlers that have never been told "no" in their lives.
the ability to hold yourself accountable for mistakes, to listen to the criticisms of others, and to learn and grow as an individual is what makes a healthy community. this video's entire comment section is quite ironic considering it's this same blind faith and dickriding that allows this kind of behavior to pop up in the community again and again.
i've also left the fandom a while ago, and have storyboarded for cheetz and taken parts in his projects. yet even i can take the time out of my day to understand a situation fully before providing my own insight. the way people are bending over backwards to try to please a creator who doesn't even know about your existence is literally proof of how ridiculous these parasocial relationships have gotten, and how they've succeeded in controlling their audience.
i don't condone harassment, people who take the time out of their day to make someone else's life miserable through spamming insults and death threats are pathetic. but i can also recognize the difference between giving an artist genuine feedback and "dogpiling" them with ill intent. of course, this doesn't mean that everyone in this situation realizes that harassment isn't the way.
this got really long and i don't expect you to read it. but again, i'd be surprised, considering you took the time to learn about situations from a community you left years ago. i chose this comment to reply to out of the hundreds under this video because you basically went over all of the most popular ignorant stances people are taking in this situation (ignorant=/=stupid, just uneducated). i don't think cheeteh is a monster that should be euthanized or ousted from society, but the criticism he's receiving isn't for no reason.
As someone who worked on 127 initially,
No one was told what effect this part would have. Many of the participants were backups or just animators who wanted to get in a Cheetz project in some way shape or form
Our time limit didn't help us in processing that either (For reference, everyone who wanted to join had 86 minutes total to finish their frame. Again, people wanted to be part of SATS in any way)
We only started noticing when the final video came in
And no, the issue wasn't that there was no warning because there was. The concern was the fact that the part going in would make the MAP inaccessible
And also no, no one is manipulating anyone into making things accessible for other viewers. Even animators younger than Cheeteh Z can follow concerns like this. No one was also dogpiled after the change. People got mad because of the way Cheeteh Z apologized (In his own words, he was "feeling silly from the MAP highs" that he responded to photosensitive concerns as vibe killers)
@@IronycheinPain I appreciate you clearing this up for me, and apologize for my ignorance. Although now this is confusing me. Mayhaps you could clear it up for me. What did Cheeteh tell you guys this art was going to be used for then? Were they the only one who edited or worked on this part? Why wouldn't they alert the other artists who were working on the map that this part was being made in this way? It's just a bit confusing. I would think as a map host you would communicate every change you make to your map, but I'm assuming they didn't always do that.
@@Milkumms._ He did tell us this was for part 127. That we knew.
He tagged everyone and said the part was essentially a first come first serve, and we hopped in as fast as possible
what we didn't know was how bad the part was gonna be in terms of flashiness, nor did we initially consider it until we saw the full thing and especially when people began complaining
@@IronycheinPain ohhh! I see, thank you for clearing this up for me. I appreciate the insight.
I am a new content creator really, I don't post a lot but I do enjoy making PMVs. I feel something I personally noticed is that recent MAPs feels like people host them for the sole reason if trying to get popular artists on the project, it feels like new artists can't really get their foot in the door with big MAP creators unless they have incredible art or a big following. Sure you can want your MAP to look good but I feel like every MAP I see it's always the same animators, no one else. And it gets boring just seeing the same animators, sure they're incredible but I want to see new and upcoming artists. I feel like previous MAPs before the community was this big it didn't have this focus on only big names and the same 20 or so animators being the only ones to get into MAPs, but it feels like that now sometimes.
Yes the flashing warning should have been more direct and in place but other than that i feel like the warriors community is turning into a fandom of a bunch of cry baby snow flakes
I don't think trying to take in mind photosenstive folks + disabled folks is just drama lmao and saying "xd okay aaaand I was being silly" is a very mature way to deal things
Just now? Really? Its been like this for a good while
@@wealdfuryHe should have made the part slower to begin with, but besides that + multiple *clear* flash warnings, he doesn’t have any obligation beyond that. No one is obligated to watch the maps.
His response to the initial reply was also bad. That was never at all acceptable or okay for him to say “you’re killing the vibe” and then say “oh sowwy I was bein a little silly goose 🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭”.
@@wealdfury he *did* take disabled folks and photosensitive folks in mind though. there were warnings in the first place.
i don't really care about him handling things unprofessionally -- he's 19. he's not a lawyer or a PR agent.
the people claiming workplace abuse in a google doc by projecting their insecurities onto him and getting angry at his disappointment at their lack of communication, on the other hand...it's just sloppy.
just little corrections to a thing you said:
the tigernoir map featured gun violence against CHILDREN. A lot of people felt it came too close to the concept of school shootings and with a minor-majority fandom, felt that was inappropriate. It took an actual school shooting to happen for Cheetz to take down the map, which imo was pretty shitty.
Yea, it was a strange thing to include, but I still don’t think it was malicious. I think if he had changed the concept to avoid gun violence against kids, it could have been completely avoided before the shooting happened. Crappy move, but probably not intentionally harmful.
@GeuseyJuice D:
@GeuseyJuice ah nice, I was really excited for that map. The story seemed really creative.
There is kitten murder in the warrior cats books, just gonna bring that up. I’d hope fans are used to dark themes-
watching things vs reading them is two different methods of processing. plus i think kids arent as sensitive to a hawk plucking up a kitten as they are to the idea of being shot with a gun, because one of those things is more likely to happen to them than the other@@ParsureArts
I was there for the scavanger hunt its real since I was in one of their old maps and just got to vibe in the discord
I also corroborate this! It was really just a fun time (if you were okay with getting pinged that is)
I still plan to be excited for Serpent and the Stars, and hope that the new hosts treat our animators well. As much as I love the story, I do feel some guilt for still wishing to enjoy the story when it's given me so much motivation to do what I love; art and storytelling. I knew sooner or later some person I looked up too would fall in a hole (trust me, I feel betrayed by these guys all the time). Though, I believe this does lighten up the eyes of others of what really happens with hosting MAPs. I wish to say that you can still love the art without supporting the artist, as long as the art doesn't hate.
Again, hoping that the new hosts of the MAP will make better descistions??? Help autocorrect can't help me!! I also hope that Sparroet is going to be okay, as he is also such a inspiration to me. Thanks for this video, as it really puts things together more easier. I'm still recovering from this shock, but soon it'll all be okay.
Also the title is so badass ngl
I don't understand @Cheeteh Z didn't do anything or at least I know of?
Good news, if you watch this video you might figure out why I made the video!
Thank you so much for compiling all this; holy shit I didn’t know it was all this much. Something I also don’t know if it made it in (I didn’t get through all of it) but ALWAYS rubbed me the wrong way was that Sagutoyas was in nearly every single one of Cheeteh’s MAPs and when the callout came out he was absolutely silent despite being fully active. Even an acknowledgement that Sally wouldn’t be let back in would’ve done wonders tbh; that’s when I kind of started distancing myself from the project. I don’t mean to slander Cheetah btw as I know he’s young, but I do think that as a young adult myself there’s a responsibility to still blacklist dangerous individuals, which he failed to do.
tbf there is absolutely no reason for him to address sagutoyas being in his maps. sagutoyas has been in a RIDICULOUS amount of projects and it is extremely unreasonable to expect someone to make a statement about an animator in their maps /before/ callouts on them were public.
@@engineerteamfortress Sorry I missed this comment. But that is not correct; the callouts were from February and well spread throughout areas which he was active, and was also following the account which they were posted on (I know this because I got the “mutual follower” notice back when I was on Twitter). It would’ve been actually hard to have missed the backlash for anyone in the community involved on the side of RUclips or Twitter to have missed, especially so far ingrained - and where the vast majority of creators were renouncing connection or reassigning parts which had been previously given out. From my understanding (bearing in mind I’m not a WC creator), this appears to be the common courtesy.
* To clarify: I’m talking about whether or not Sally would be permitted *back* into future MAPs, not that she was in them previously before all of this was discovered. I’m in agreement that would be ridiculous to expect and was not what I was trying to say at all; I apologize if there was any confusion there ^^;
I feel like some people over react over little things like a cat having a marking fully and/or vaguely shaped feather or leaf shaped marking on a cat and suddenly people are exploding about how it’s racist disrespectful etc. Now I am no way saying that this is an excuse to be racist or disrespectful to cultures people etc. Just don’t react over something so stupid like as my previous example having a feather shaped marking just because.
Yeah people have to stop they attack people but not help people there’s stupid
So tldr; Twitter users start drama over nothing (unsurprising)
tbh i never knew this would blow up like this. when this part released, the people who criticized the part, such as myself, were in the minority. i cant comment for photosensitive people, but as a regular viewer i felt like it was not the best decision as it was very fast, and changed the whole meaning behind what made this moment impactful, and not in the good way. plus, the description said that the participants were supposed to see what they could draw in 90 minutes, so it didnt seem like it would be throwing away hard work. i spoke on this situation because i genuinely care about this map, and i thought it was important as a commenter to help this map be the best it can be. but its disgusting seeing these people from the depths of twitter saying "i never liked his style" or "youre a piece of scum". his response was very immature, yes. but its not like hes some 75 year old overlord. hes a random 19 yo trying to persue his passion. and seeing him give up his map because of all this, having comment sections full of toxic hate (not the ones with criticism, i mean the ones full of calling him names, and a lot of those people have never even been to his channel before and werent there to witness what happened). i know i was not the relevant comment in this thread, but i still feel guilty for commenting, because it never shouldve gone down like this. while i appreciate the people who told him about the dangers of this, theres no need to get in his face so much as some of these people, the part has already been taking down, and now theyre making the situation even worse and miserable for all parties involved.
Hey, I don't think you should feel guilty for commenting at all! All you were doing is backing up someone's (correct) concerns about flashing / photosensitivity in the MAP and you honestly offered a lot of workable and relevant advice. While it was irrelevant to the *scandal* specifically, I don't think that it was irrelevant or unnecessary at the time / as a whole, especially not to the MAP part itself. Almost none of the backlash was due to you in the slightest -- I think that negative sentiments towards Cheeteh have been bubbling under the surface for a long while, and it was only a matter of time before they exploded to the surface like this.
This community is such a mess, just like many other communities have become, thanks to people not thinking for themselves and just following the crowd. This is how things get blown out of preportion like that. One person has unrealistic expectations, and then they all do.
fascinating video, thank you so much lol. as an archivist especially THANK YOU for documenting by far the WORSE kinda of phenomenom to document..... twitter.
I’m don’t know exactly what to say. I’m a small animator with little experience especially with discord and maps, I’m so sorry some people had to experience this stuff if it’s true! Cheetah already said she also has to go with school, plus lots of people are so mad at him, when he is trying to tell a story. Even is I
You might need to read the script, it’s a amazing heart feel story that has took years to do. Technically it’s not addressed as child labor, as you do have a choice if you would like to do it either way. Labor is when you do lots for nothing to support family and such, but this is just animation not living to surive. Some people do much more bad things like stealing commissions and hacking games and such. This is I literally teenager. Imagine your just a teenager and you have school,lots of people with threats plus how lot’s are bias and racism around
This. I hope sparrot and cheetah are going to be ok.
I’m so sorry