You do not give yourself enough credit but humility is best. I own every timber frame book ever written, watched thousands of videos, assisted master framers and attended several timber framing schools and you sir explain line rule better than even the best of the masters.
Hey @carlroge , thanks so much for the kind comment, I do love hearing that folks are getting something out if it. You'll be happy to hear that just the other day I finished gathering film for part two! Just have to edit it and have a start on that too!
There will probably be a part three Carl, so if there are questions that remain I would love to hear them so I can use them to guide part three coming up next month.
I've logged and milled all the necessary timbers for a 24 X 24 barn and have them drying for the next year or two. I'm quite confident that I'll be dealing with twisted and curved timbers when the time comes to start processing them. Although I plan to plane them (they are currently slightly oversized), I'm sure that I won't have the ability to correct all of those twists and curves. Your explanation of line rule is coherent and thorough which gives me the necessary confidence to move forward in processing them. I look forward to the rest of your videos -outstanding job and I truly appreciate all the preparation and re-shooting/editing work to make this the high quality that it is.
@@kevinray2453 Thank you very kindly for this! The good news is I've actually published the next two videos in the series already. Let me know if you have any questions, happy to help.
This is really in depth. I really appreciate the effort, organization of material and experience that went into these! My structure starts in the spring!
Very Good explanation on all. We are really Framers that almost always use the Scribe Technique in all my Frames as we do Mill everything on site and Have the area required to do the Big work. Nicky done.
I'll add my own thanks and second all of the compliments below - add my own encouragement (or plea!) for the second video. Based on your comments it sounds like you've completed the same confusing journey that I've been on. I think I've got just about every book available on timber framing, and I've scoured the internet for information, but it's been next to impossible to find a coherent explanation/demonstration of how to use the snap-line square-rule to layout imperfect timbers. The process has often felt like trying to complete a jigsaw puzzle that's missing a few critical pieces. Your first video was incredibly helpful, and after watching it I have to confess that I was feeling almost ecstatic. "Here are the final missing pieces, and after that I'll be finally be able to assemble them into something that I can use on real-world timbers (milled from trees that I felled myself, via chainsaw mill, and carried out of the brush on my shoulders)!" Even if it's not a polished, entirely complete video - anything that you can post that will add onto what you've shared in video 7A will be extremely helpful and greatly appreciated by myself and an awful lot of other people. Thanks again!
Thank you very much for the kind words, very reassuring. I have a lot of plans for the follow-up video and am hoping to work on it this winter. It'll be pretty nerdy like this one, but I hope to help folks that are interested enough to spend time with it. Thank you again.
Looking forward to the next video. You perfectly described my position about the confusion with the different systems. After reading Steve Chappell and Will Beemers books, I understand the square rule concept...except when dealing with twisted timbers. They glossed over a lot. I've been searching for someone to explain it a bit further. You seemed to be about to explain this... then stopped. I was saying "NOOOO! Keep going!!". Hope you find time to finish this. I enjoyed the lengthy explanations, and just know... your efforts are appreciated.
Haha! I appreciate the note, thank you. I am in the middle of trying to get the first building up on our new property as we speak and then I will be back into it. I appreciate hearing that the long-windedness isn't too annoying. Cheers for now.
Really enjoying this series and the time you are taking to explain everything, extremely informative and interesting. Not a lot of info like this out there, videos are definitely not too long, the explanation and examples are welcome. Hope your back continues to hold up and that your second build went well. Looking forward to more videos as you get the chance. Thanks again!
Hi Jonathan, thanks very much for the kind words and support. It's good to know folks appreciate the details. I'm excited about the next video and should be able to get at it before too long. Till then, cheers.
Specifically, I appreciate your down-to-earth, practical approach and explanations. I don't currently have a specific application to implement the techniques you are showing, but I love seeing them demonstrated and knowing they are there to reference whenever needed. Thanks again!
Looking forward to 7B on layout. This was a great explanation of the various methods and I especially liked the snap line demo and explanation at the end ...
Good job over all in my view with outlining the different modalities of layout systems for timber frames... A brief outline of each, and current trends of them in the industry as well as DIYers. I especially liked the section speaking to the fact that most timber frames in history actually had been (and still are) probably cut with some form of "line rule" layout, since Asia has probably the largest, most concentrated and ongoing timber frame practice on the globe. I agree the video is long, but that is a subjective perspective at best... Further, basing a video on "view stats" is probably one of the main negative aspects with RUclips in general! If a viewer just wishing to be "entertained" then watching an actual informative video like your's is not something worthwhile to them, nor the population I would think this video is targeted towards...In reality, this video (and the second one too) could be twice as long as they are to actually facilitate the deeper understanding of these systems; with the second focused on line rule as practice today in many shops here in North America, or a version of it that you employ as stated... The one point of challenge, I would offer, that stood out to me, is about "commercial vs. DIYer." As a commercial Timberwright myself that has (and does) worked with many others over the years, I can say that "line rule" is the most common. Most in Asia practice this in the most traditional format. In reality, to be cost productive, efficient, logistically and fiscally effective there really isn't another way to layout timbers...IF...a commercial (aka large production) timber frame company wishes to either be productive and/or use traditional "hand worked" joinery and not rely merely on large CNC machines to make frames without regard to tradition, the material jointed or even good practice within the craft and art from... Ergo why this system is (and was) used commercially (aka professionally) in Asia for the last 4000 years plus...Over all...Great Job!!!
Hi Jay, thanks for weighing in! I have a lot to learn yet, and the more times I apply the system the more I can see how it could be improved, but also how quick and efficient it is. Really, the time it takes to snap the lines is pretty insignificant, but if you start with perfect timbers and can skip that step, it's hard to say what the time saving would add up to. Now if you're starting with imperfect timbers (by design or otherwise) there's no question that line rule takes the cake. The problem is, it's hard for me to know what "work practices" can be attributed to a particular system since I haven't read much on Line Rule. For example, I have read that Line Rule systems use storey sticks and templates, however I started using them before I'd heard about line rule. Not because I'm brilliant, but simply because they're very common in cabinetmaking and furniture making (which I was experienced in) and reduce the frequency of errors. In my experience they're a HUGE time saver as well and I don't think I've ever heard of a big name practitioner in North America use them. I'm excited about switching over to a centred line approach, and I'm going to talk more about that (and even demonstrate) on the next video. I am going to walk through a few timbers with the camera off first! :) Thanks again! Brent
@@DovetailTimberworks (Un)fortunately if you want to grow your channel, you probably have to base it on view stats. For my taste this was no way too long or too many details.
Hi Aime, I borrowed from some items in Jack Sobon's book, the publication on timberframing fundamentals published by the timberframer's guild as well as a lot of techniques from my experience studying furniture making. Using templates and storey sticks is a very common furniture/cabinet making technique. But now that I have it and have read it, my approach has a lot in common with what Mitchell describes. Hope that helps!
@@barney2210 I got it through the timber framers guild. I don't believe they have anyone making them right now, but I would lean on them a bit. If enough people do, someone may orchestrate a run of them.
@@DovetailTimberworks Hey Thank you for the quick response I will reach out to them. What department would I call at the guild the tool store or the school?I don’t like the factory base I have to constantly adjust it which isn’t practical. I’m ready to buy a Mafell. I was enjoying some of your videos of late. What part of Eastern Canada is your company based I was trying to find your contact phone number to reach out to you. If you like send it to me would be great.
@@barney2210 I'm not sure where to send you within the guild. I would start by browsing the online forum with some keyword searches for the base and you should get some hints about who to reach out to. Jim Rodgers is a moderator and is also very active. He wouldn't be a bad place to start. Send me an email if you'd like to connect. On my YT home page....don't want to type it here on account of scrape bots.
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
You do not give yourself enough credit but humility is best. I own every timber frame book ever written, watched thousands of videos, assisted master framers and attended several timber framing schools and you sir explain line rule better than even the best of the masters.
Holy smokes man, thank you very much for the kind comment! I really appreciate hearing that and psyches me up for the next video! Cheers
Thank you again John for the kind comment. Part two is up now.
I hope you're aware of how informative this video was, you have a knack for explaining. Very sad that I couldn't find part 2 but thanks for this!
Hey @carlroge , thanks so much for the kind comment, I do love hearing that folks are getting something out if it. You'll be happy to hear that just the other day I finished gathering film for part two! Just have to edit it and have a start on that too!
There will probably be a part three Carl, so if there are questions that remain I would love to hear them so I can use them to guide part three coming up next month.
Hi Carl, the second part is up now. A bit dry of course, but it adds to the first.
I was going to say the same thing!
I've logged and milled all the necessary timbers for a 24 X 24 barn and have them drying for the next year or two. I'm quite confident that I'll be dealing with twisted and curved timbers when the time comes to start processing them. Although I plan to plane them (they are currently slightly oversized), I'm sure that I won't have the ability to correct all of those twists and curves. Your explanation of line rule is coherent and thorough which gives me the necessary confidence to move forward in processing them. I look forward to the rest of your videos -outstanding job and I truly appreciate all the preparation and re-shooting/editing work to make this the high quality that it is.
@@kevinray2453 Thank you very kindly for this! The good news is I've actually published the next two videos in the series already. Let me know if you have any questions, happy to help.
Love the way you explain and teach it makes it easy for a guy like me to understand!!
Part 3 is up now!
This is really in depth. I really appreciate the effort, organization of material and experience that went into these! My structure starts in the spring!
Awesome! I have a wrap up video coming, stay tuned!
Part 3 is up now!
Well done, great video and appreciate you taking the time to make this video. Best explanation I've heard or seen. Thank you
Very Good explanation on all. We are really Framers that almost always use the Scribe Technique in all my Frames as we do Mill everything on site and Have the area required to do the Big work. Nicky done.
I'll add my own thanks and second all of the compliments below - add my own encouragement (or plea!) for the second video. Based on your comments it sounds like you've completed the same confusing journey that I've been on. I think I've got just about every book available on timber framing, and I've scoured the internet for information, but it's been next to impossible to find a coherent explanation/demonstration of how to use the snap-line square-rule to layout imperfect timbers.
The process has often felt like trying to complete a jigsaw puzzle that's missing a few critical pieces. Your first video was incredibly helpful, and after watching it I have to confess that I was feeling almost ecstatic. "Here are the final missing pieces, and after that I'll be finally be able to assemble them into something that I can use on real-world timbers (milled from trees that I felled myself, via chainsaw mill, and carried out of the brush on my shoulders)!"
Even if it's not a polished, entirely complete video - anything that you can post that will add onto what you've shared in video 7A will be extremely helpful and greatly appreciated by myself and an awful lot of other people. Thanks again!
Thank you very much for the kind words, very reassuring. I have a lot of plans for the follow-up video and am hoping to work on it this winter. It'll be pretty nerdy like this one, but I hope to help folks that are interested enough to spend time with it. Thank you again.
Excellent information thank you
Thanks for the note! Im filming the second part as we speak!
Looking forward to the next video. You perfectly described my position about the confusion with the different systems. After reading Steve Chappell and Will Beemers books, I understand the square rule concept...except when dealing with twisted timbers. They glossed over a lot. I've been searching for someone to explain it a bit further. You seemed to be about to explain this... then stopped. I was saying "NOOOO! Keep going!!".
Hope you find time to finish this. I enjoyed the lengthy explanations, and just know... your efforts are appreciated.
Haha! I appreciate the note, thank you. I am in the middle of trying to get the first building up on our new property as we speak and then I will be back into it. I appreciate hearing that the long-windedness isn't too annoying. Cheers for now.
Hi! Thank you for your patience, the section part is up now...hope you find it helpful.
Really enjoying this series and the time you are taking to explain everything, extremely informative and interesting. Not a lot of info like this out there, videos are definitely not too long, the explanation and examples are welcome. Hope your back continues to hold up and that your second build went well. Looking forward to more videos as you get the chance. Thanks again!
Hi Jonathan, thanks very much for the kind words and support. It's good to know folks appreciate the details. I'm excited about the next video and should be able to get at it before too long. Till then, cheers.
Part two is up now, hope it helps!
Exciting! Glad the series is underway again, really enjoy the information you are sharing.
@@renuing Thank you, I appreciate hearing that! Capturing footage for the next installment right now!
Specifically, I appreciate your down-to-earth, practical approach and explanations. I don't currently have a specific application to implement the techniques you are showing, but I love seeing them demonstrated and knowing they are there to reference whenever needed. Thanks again!
Would love to see part 7b of the layout series if it's still in the works!
Hi, thanks for the note! The second part is up now....a bit dry of course, but I hope it helps.
Looking forward to 7B on layout. This was a great explanation of the various methods and I especially liked the snap line demo and explanation at the end ...
Thank you for the note! I'm off-site working an a bit of timberframing but I hope to get back to this one before too long.
The online line rule video that should he allowed on YT
Part two is up now, would love to know what you think.
oh my goodness, thank you so much. This is invaluable
I will have the third part out in the next couple of weeks I hope.
This is wonderful. We should chat in person some time. Thanks for all these videos, they are amazing!
Great content good job😊
@@oldpeoplenewstuff3123 Thank-you! There are two other parts. Let me know if there's anything needing clarification!
Awesome video sir thank you
Thank you! Let me know what you think of the next two in the series, they get into more detail on my approach.
👍👍❤great info....
Good content!❤
@@ParaDox-xb3qw Thank you! The other two parts of this three part series are up too.
Good job over all in my view with outlining the different modalities of layout systems for timber frames...
A brief outline of each, and current trends of them in the industry as well as DIYers. I especially liked the section speaking to the fact that most timber frames in history actually had been (and still are) probably cut with some form of "line rule" layout, since Asia has probably the largest, most concentrated and ongoing timber frame practice on the globe.
I agree the video is long, but that is a subjective perspective at best... Further, basing a video on "view stats" is probably one of the main negative aspects with RUclips in general! If a viewer just wishing to be "entertained" then watching an actual informative video like your's is not something worthwhile to them, nor the population I would think this video is targeted towards...In reality, this video (and the second one too) could be twice as long as they are to actually facilitate the deeper understanding of these systems; with the second focused on line rule as practice today in many shops here in North America, or a version of it that you employ as stated...
The one point of challenge, I would offer, that stood out to me, is about "commercial vs. DIYer." As a commercial Timberwright myself that has (and does) worked with many others over the years, I can say that "line rule" is the most common. Most in Asia practice this in the most traditional format. In reality, to be cost productive, efficient, logistically and fiscally effective there really isn't another way to layout timbers...IF...a commercial (aka large production) timber frame company wishes to either be productive and/or use traditional "hand worked" joinery and not rely merely on large CNC machines to make frames without regard to tradition, the material jointed or even good practice within the craft and art from... Ergo why this system is (and was) used commercially (aka professionally) in Asia for the last 4000 years plus...Over all...Great Job!!!
Hi Jay, thanks for weighing in! I have a lot to learn yet, and the more times I apply the system the more I can see how it could be improved, but also how quick and efficient it is. Really, the time it takes to snap the lines is pretty insignificant, but if you start with perfect timbers and can skip that step, it's hard to say what the time saving would add up to. Now if you're starting with imperfect timbers (by design or otherwise) there's no question that line rule takes the cake. The problem is, it's hard for me to know what "work practices" can be attributed to a particular system since I haven't read much on Line Rule. For example, I have read that Line Rule systems use storey sticks and templates, however I started using them before I'd heard about line rule. Not because I'm brilliant, but simply because they're very common in cabinetmaking and furniture making (which I was experienced in) and reduce the frequency of errors. In my experience they're a HUGE time saver as well and I don't think I've ever heard of a big name practitioner in North America use them.
I'm excited about switching over to a centred line approach, and I'm going to talk more about that (and even demonstrate) on the next video. I am going to walk through a few timbers with the camera off first! :)
Thanks again!
Brent
You’ve taken a lot of head scratching out in your line rule video. Any thoughts on when part B will be posted? Can’t wait.
So sorry for the delay, just getting back into the swing of things, and plan on doing the followup video this spring!
Part two is up now! Thank you for your patience!
Snaplines all the way!
Thanks for the support! The next one ought to be shorter but more focussed on how I do the rest of the layout.
@@DovetailTimberworks (Un)fortunately if you want to grow your channel, you probably have to base it on view stats. For my taste this was no way too long or too many details.
Now thats what i call a circular saw.
Haha! Yes, it makes one pucker a little bit before you pull the trigger...
I would be curious to know about the authors from which you borrowed and created this layout method.
Hi Aime, I borrowed from some items in Jack Sobon's book, the publication on timberframing fundamentals published by the timberframer's guild as well as a lot of techniques from my experience studying furniture making. Using templates and storey sticks is a very common furniture/cabinet making technique. But now that I have it and have read it, my approach has a lot in common with what Mitchell describes. Hope that helps!
We are only as good as our lines
Hey where did you get that base from for your 16”1/4 makita the factory base is not good at all.
@@barney2210 I got it through the timber framers guild. I don't believe they have anyone making them right now, but I would lean on them a bit. If enough people do, someone may orchestrate a run of them.
@@DovetailTimberworks
Hey Thank you for the quick response I will reach out to them. What department would I call at the guild the tool store or the school?I don’t like the factory base I have to constantly adjust it which isn’t practical. I’m ready to buy a Mafell.
I was enjoying some of your videos of late. What part of Eastern Canada is your company based I was trying to find your contact phone number to reach out to you. If you like send it to me would be great.
@@barney2210 I'm not sure where to send you within the guild. I would start by browsing the online forum with some keyword searches for the base and you should get some hints about who to reach out to. Jim Rodgers is a moderator and is also very active. He wouldn't be a bad place to start.
Send me an email if you'd like to connect. On my YT home page....don't want to type it here on account of scrape bots.
It seems important for me to cut my lines with the saw all the way on the timber
When I can
Center line is straight even if the timbers are not
Not 2\3❤
You are the teacher
Please feel welcome almost all the time please 😊