It is a shame that 10th took away pretty much all the Scions own anti-tank options - while i appreciate being able to take tanks and such it was a shame my scions can't manage it on their own now (unless you spike high on the dice of course). Oh to return to the brief days of the Lambdan Lions :D
I painted my models in a Lambda Lions like colour scheme since I loved the extra AP. If scions ever become an army of their own they would have to have specialist squads like that. But truth told, I'm happy with guard being a diverse army for now.
I said from the get go of scions as an army that they should have had access to to old forgeworld drop-sentinels and cargo valkiries, as well as venator buggies. The could have been such an awsome genuine army if they had been designed around being "special forces" playing something like a hybrid of guard, drukari and genestealer cults.
I played a scion list comprising of 3 units in Taurox's with Primaris Psykers, and the rest deepstriking in with command squads. 2 big blobs of bullgryn, some ratlings, a callidus and Coteaz with a maxed blob of acolytes. The Scions jumping out of a Taurox with a psyker allowed for the psyker to get rerolls from the taurox buff and scion buffs. It was a pretty nice combo. But i had the misfortune of playing into Hypercrypt with a Monolith and Ctans. Absolutely bounced off and got outplayed at every turn. Glorious martyrdom ensued! At the same time tho, i played Scions into speed freeks and had a totally different game. Theyre weapons and ability to fight on their own terms decimated the Ork Vehicles and Bikers. So they definantly have their good match ups, but sadly without S10+ they just suck without taking a Tanks.
While I miss my hot shot volley guns being AP 2, I honestly think they are really underrated. Whether it's on Scions or kasrkin, if you have the first rank fire second rank fire order and you are in rapid fire you have two models that are essentially putting out the same amount of fire as an 80 point intercessor squad. That's just two models. 10 bolt rifle shots. Not to mention either rerolls on Scions or the extra order on kasrkin to hit on 2s, and you're probably getting sustained hits from a Castellan on Kasrkin or Command Squad on Scions.
If your command squad has drill commander, those shots are even better since you also get crits on 5. Sure it’s quite an investment, but that firing squad can be pretty deadly.
God i miss the times when hot-shot lasguns and volleyguns had AP -3 , nowadays hotshot weaponry is just a lasgun that shoots on 3+. Good analysis, Mordian
9 Armored Sentinels w/ Lascannons with orders from command squads brings a critical mass of AT. And walkers still fit the fluff of air dropped light vehicles. Totally agree
Going elite guard, backing battleline Scions with Bullgryns feels like a pretty strong alternative. I still think going hybrid and mixing armored support is going to be important, but it's a really different playstyle that can be really fun
When they were first made a seperate army from guard, I was initially incredulous of Scions. As they got settled in I came aroumd to the idea and hoped that they would be made an army of commandos and special forces using ambushes, alpha-strikes, assasination and hit and run tactics. But now they slowly seem to be morphing into just, less efficient guardsmen. I can't say I'm not disapointed.
I love my scions and their Valkyrie too, even if I've only brought it once, and that time had an infantry squad in it 😁 I see Bullgryns, Ratlings, Psykers, flyers and armored sentinels as a natural extension to Scions. I tend to add in the Leman Russ Battletank because of it's scion like rerolls as well. Pure Scions is just 810p infantry, we got to fill it up somehow.
I can't want for Wargames Atlantic to enter Fulfillment on their "The Damned" campaign. I've already got a few sprues of their Scions-like "Heavy Infantry" kit ordered. I might grab some more, if I decide to increase my order by another three boxes (for those redesigned transports). "Blood Pact" style Scions are so cool.
As someone who loves all the varieties of Storm Troopers, Scions and Kasrkin (and is gently coming back to the hobby after a long time out), I think they're very effective troops, but if it were up to me I would alter a few things about them. Mordian's video here makes one of my points very clearly: he rightly says how effective the boatload of special weapons they can take are. But not a single mention of their signature weapons: the Hot-shot lasgun, HS laspistol and HS volley gun. While I think the amount of firepower a fully-kitted block of Stormies can dish out is about right - they Deep Striking 15-strong block o' doom can blow away a whole squad of Marines - wouldn't it be more cool if their punch came from their own cool, distinct weaponry, rather than the plasma guns and meltas that can be seen all over the Imperial forces? My idea for that would be to make their special weapon damage output a bit less - for example changing the First Rank Fire! order so that it only works on S3 weapons (reducing the volley gun to S3 to let it take advantage, boosting its number of shots to compensate), but is overall better (adding re-roll Wounds maybe?), and altering special weapons so that plasma guns are less ubiquitous (putting it in the same slot as a much-improved Vox caster?). But in exchange, boost the hot-shot lasgun and pistol: Anti-Infantry 4+ and -2 AP, add in extra shots and re-rolls from First Rank Fire! and by my mental maths the overall damage output is about the same as with the 11-shot plasma weapon barrage you can do now, but imho much more characterful. After all, the hot-shot weapons are so powerful they needs an entire backpack battery to power them. To me, Stormies are similar to Eldar Aspect warriors, and I think their unique, characterful weaponry should be at the core of their effectiveness, not playing second fiddle to the specials. In addition, with all Marines having 2 Wounds, all Orks being T5 with 5+ saves, and Eldar Guardians' t-shirts giving 4+ saves...should the absolute best of the Guard, trained and drilled and exercised to the limits of human ability and given thick high-quality body armour, not be allowed Toughness 4? I'd happily pay another point per head for T4 Stormies, and I think it would make them feel more like elite soldiers rather than cheap objective-baggers and special weapon delivery services.
I've never been too sold on Scions. After the first demise of the Kasrkin, I did appreciate them getting a spiritual Successor, and one that wasn't even tied to Cadians, for those people who aren't the Cadian-supporters I am, and my own self-insert character is even mostly using a Prime as the base model, but I guess they have always felt TOO separate, lime they still remember having been attached to Daemonhunters, and not wanting to have to foot slog it with rank and file Guard. It's weird that they are the elite Guard, but kind of don't feel like they actually do the things Guard do, and then better. Their pure forces are so narrow, and uninclusive. There's a number of Guard options that just don't fir with them, and I'd hope that would make other, less taken options, seem even better, but nope. Maybe if they had a character, like Creed, Straken, or the like, I'd like them more, but as is, I've just never really gotten excited. I also hate the Taurox, on several fronts, and regret that the Valkyrie, by contrast, isn't permitted to be good, by current 10e trends. I don't think the Scions are crap, but I like Cadians, and with the Kasrkin back, I can get my Stormtroopers fix, as well as the other themes a more general Guard list might want.
6 x 10 Scions 3 x Command Squads 3 Valkyries 2 Leman Russ Vanguishers with full flamer loadout GO IN, SMASH THE AREA, KILL ANYTHING WITH MORE THAN TWO LEGS RAAAHHGG
Its a shame that theyre probably taking away the servitors; having a scion squad, scion scion command squad, enginseer, servitors, and an ogrin bodyguard in a crassus seems like a decent way to stick some extra plasma cannons or multimeltas in a scions heavy list (also still a shame the ogrin bodyguad has sustained hits instead of rapid fire-if it had RF it might be good on a scion command squad)
My Scions list headcannon is an elite infantry regiment from Ultamar, not Tempestus Scions. Im just using the stat line. x3 Scions Command Squads x2 Cadian Castellons x3 Primaris Psyker x1 Enginseer x1 Tank Commander x5 10 man Scion Squads w/ plasma/melta x1 6 man Bullgryn Squad x2 Kaserkin squads x1 Russ Exterminator x2 Chimeras I have had a lot of success with this list, the Kaserkin with the Castellons and a Psyker unloading from a chimera are an excellent turn 1 attack unit, and with the invulnerable saves from the psycker they are generally tough enough to last into turn 2, even if its just a handful of survivors. The big 15 man blobs of scions absolutely obliterate anything they look at. Even with 5s to wound. I used one to take down Gaz and a Morkanaught in the same last weekend. Got lucky with my wound rolls, and he got unlucky with his saves but still. LOVE my scion army. Very swingy though. If you dont get that good shooting phase then the game can go downhill very quickly.
I want to make a pure scion army so bad, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to after the Guard get a new codex. I love scions but find most of the other units in Guard kind of boring
I honestly see no reason why Scions wouldn't use tanks and artillery. I think of them in the same way as the Waffen SS, and their tank regiments were a serious threat, so my not give the Scions heavy units like Basilisks, Leman Russ' and Rogal Dorns.
It is a shame that 10th took away pretty much all the Scions own anti-tank options - while i appreciate being able to take tanks and such it was a shame my scions can't manage it on their own now (unless you spike high on the dice of course). Oh to return to the brief days of the Lambdan Lions :D
I painted my models in a Lambda Lions like colour scheme since I loved the extra AP. If scions ever become an army of their own they would have to have specialist squads like that. But truth told, I'm happy with guard being a diverse army for now.
Something that might be fun, scions and sentinels. Flavored as an advanced special force/light spearhead through dangerous/inconvenient terrain.
I said from the get go of scions as an army that they should have had access to to old forgeworld drop-sentinels and cargo valkiries, as well as venator buggies.
The could have been such an awsome genuine army if they had been designed around being "special forces" playing something like a hybrid of guard, drukari and genestealer cults.
I played a scion list comprising of 3 units in Taurox's with Primaris Psykers, and the rest deepstriking in with command squads. 2 big blobs of bullgryn, some ratlings, a callidus and Coteaz with a maxed blob of acolytes. The Scions jumping out of a Taurox with a psyker allowed for the psyker to get rerolls from the taurox buff and scion buffs. It was a pretty nice combo. But i had the misfortune of playing into Hypercrypt with a Monolith and Ctans. Absolutely bounced off and got outplayed at every turn. Glorious martyrdom ensued!
At the same time tho, i played Scions into speed freeks and had a totally different game. Theyre weapons and ability to fight on their own terms decimated the Ork Vehicles and Bikers. So they definantly have their good match ups, but sadly without S10+ they just suck without taking a Tanks.
While I miss my hot shot volley guns being AP 2, I honestly think they are really underrated. Whether it's on Scions or kasrkin, if you have the first rank fire second rank fire order and you are in rapid fire you have two models that are essentially putting out the same amount of fire as an 80 point intercessor squad. That's just two models. 10 bolt rifle shots. Not to mention either rerolls on Scions or the extra order on kasrkin to hit on 2s, and you're probably getting sustained hits from a Castellan on Kasrkin or Command Squad on Scions.
If your command squad has drill commander, those shots are even better since you also get crits on 5. Sure it’s quite an investment, but that firing squad can be pretty deadly.
God i miss the times when hot-shot lasguns and volleyguns had AP -3 , nowadays hotshot weaponry is just a lasgun that shoots on 3+. Good analysis, Mordian
Plus AP -1
Scions with Armored Sentinels takes care of the tank killing for the most part.
9 Armored Sentinels w/ Lascannons with orders from command squads brings a critical mass of AT. And walkers still fit the fluff of air dropped light vehicles. Totally agree
I have thought about doing this many times. Excellently reviewed! Thanks for making quality content.
Going elite guard, backing battleline Scions with Bullgryns feels like a pretty strong alternative. I still think going hybrid and mixing armored support is going to be important, but it's a really different playstyle that can be really fun
When they were first made a seperate army from guard, I was initially incredulous of Scions. As they got settled in I came aroumd to the idea and hoped that they would be made an army of commandos and special forces using ambushes, alpha-strikes, assasination and hit and run tactics.
But now they slowly seem to be morphing into just, less efficient guardsmen. I can't say I'm not disapointed.
GLORY TO THE TRUE FINEST!
I love my scions and their Valkyrie too, even if I've only brought it once, and that time had an infantry squad in it 😁
I see Bullgryns, Ratlings, Psykers, flyers and armored sentinels as a natural extension to Scions. I tend to add in the Leman Russ Battletank because of it's scion like rerolls as well.
Pure Scions is just 810p infantry, we got to fill it up somehow.
I can't want for Wargames Atlantic to enter Fulfillment on their "The Damned" campaign. I've already got a few sprues of their Scions-like "Heavy Infantry" kit ordered. I might grab some more, if I decide to increase my order by another three boxes (for those redesigned transports). "Blood Pact" style Scions are so cool.
Today scion squad with the command squad completely wiped a 10 man squad of Plague Marines off an objective so I'd say that's pretty good
I wonder what an elysian style list using scions, valkyries, and sentinels would look like
As someone who loves all the varieties of Storm Troopers, Scions and Kasrkin (and is gently coming back to the hobby after a long time out), I think they're very effective troops, but if it were up to me I would alter a few things about them.
Mordian's video here makes one of my points very clearly: he rightly says how effective the boatload of special weapons they can take are. But not a single mention of their signature weapons: the Hot-shot lasgun, HS laspistol and HS volley gun. While I think the amount of firepower a fully-kitted block of Stormies can dish out is about right - they Deep Striking 15-strong block o' doom can blow away a whole squad of Marines - wouldn't it be more cool if their punch came from their own cool, distinct weaponry, rather than the plasma guns and meltas that can be seen all over the Imperial forces?
My idea for that would be to make their special weapon damage output a bit less - for example changing the First Rank Fire! order so that it only works on S3 weapons (reducing the volley gun to S3 to let it take advantage, boosting its number of shots to compensate), but is overall better (adding re-roll Wounds maybe?), and altering special weapons so that plasma guns are less ubiquitous (putting it in the same slot as a much-improved Vox caster?). But in exchange, boost the hot-shot lasgun and pistol: Anti-Infantry 4+ and -2 AP, add in extra shots and re-rolls from First Rank Fire! and by my mental maths the overall damage output is about the same as with the 11-shot plasma weapon barrage you can do now, but imho much more characterful.
After all, the hot-shot weapons are so powerful they needs an entire backpack battery to power them. To me, Stormies are similar to Eldar Aspect warriors, and I think their unique, characterful weaponry should be at the core of their effectiveness, not playing second fiddle to the specials.
In addition, with all Marines having 2 Wounds, all Orks being T5 with 5+ saves, and Eldar Guardians' t-shirts giving 4+ saves...should the absolute best of the Guard, trained and drilled and exercised to the limits of human ability and given thick high-quality body armour, not be allowed Toughness 4? I'd happily pay another point per head for T4 Stormies, and I think it would make them feel more like elite soldiers rather than cheap objective-baggers and special weapon delivery services.
SCIONS LETS GOOOOO
Thoughts on a Mechanized List of Scions? I like the idea of Scions in Taurox Primes supported by the likes of Armored Sentinels and other units.
75 Scions is already the foundation of my Guard list :P
On a side note, as of this time, max Scions with a Valkyrie is exactly 1000 points! Not super meta but very thematic!
I really want an expansion to the Scion range. Gove us airdropped jeeps and sentinels, give us recoilless rifles, let us go full paratrooper with them
Casual elysians erasure by the departmento minitorum.
@Mordian Glory
As a horde player can u give tips how would u play Chaos Cult detachment ? Or showcase it in one of your videos 🫡
Please release how the new aquilons fit in this army
I've never been too sold on Scions. After the first demise of the Kasrkin, I did appreciate them getting a spiritual Successor, and one that wasn't even tied to Cadians, for those people who aren't the Cadian-supporters I am, and my own self-insert character is even mostly using a Prime as the base model, but I guess they have always felt TOO separate, lime they still remember having been attached to Daemonhunters, and not wanting to have to foot slog it with rank and file Guard. It's weird that they are the elite Guard, but kind of don't feel like they actually do the things Guard do, and then better. Their pure forces are so narrow, and uninclusive. There's a number of Guard options that just don't fir with them, and I'd hope that would make other, less taken options, seem even better, but nope. Maybe if they had a character, like Creed, Straken, or the like, I'd like them more, but as is, I've just never really gotten excited. I also hate the Taurox, on several fronts, and regret that the Valkyrie, by contrast, isn't permitted to be good, by current 10e trends. I don't think the Scions are crap, but I like Cadians, and with the Kasrkin back, I can get my Stormtroopers fix, as well as the other themes a more general Guard list might want.
6 x 10 Scions
3 x Command Squads
3 Valkyries
2 Leman Russ Vanguishers with full flamer loadout
GO IN, SMASH THE AREA, KILL ANYTHING WITH MORE THAN TWO LEGS RAAAHHGG
If Cadians are the hammer, and Space Marines are the scalpel, then Scions are the axe.
Cadia is gone :p
So, are these conclusions sciontific?
Its a shame that theyre probably taking away the servitors; having a scion squad, scion scion command squad, enginseer, servitors, and an ogrin bodyguard in a crassus seems like a decent way to stick some extra plasma cannons or multimeltas in a scions heavy list (also still a shame the ogrin bodyguad has sustained hits instead of rapid fire-if it had RF it might be good on a scion command squad)
you could have scions + sentinels, right?
My Scions list headcannon is an elite infantry regiment from Ultamar, not Tempestus Scions. Im just using the stat line.
x3 Scions Command Squads
x2 Cadian Castellons
x3 Primaris Psyker
x1 Enginseer
x1 Tank Commander
x5 10 man Scion Squads w/ plasma/melta
x1 6 man Bullgryn Squad
x2 Kaserkin squads
x1 Russ Exterminator
x2 Chimeras
I have had a lot of success with this list, the Kaserkin with the Castellons and a Psyker unloading from a chimera are an excellent turn 1 attack unit, and with the invulnerable saves from the psycker they are generally tough enough to last into turn 2, even if its just a handful of survivors. The big 15 man blobs of scions absolutely obliterate anything they look at. Even with 5s to wound. I used one to take down Gaz and a Morkanaught in the same last weekend. Got lucky with my wound rolls, and he got unlucky with his saves but still. LOVE my scion army. Very swingy though. If you dont get that good shooting phase then the game can go downhill very quickly.
I want to make a pure scion army so bad, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to after the Guard get a new codex. I love scions but find most of the other units in Guard kind of boring
Anybody know what that unit from 0:52 are? They look like mixed Krieg with Scions and I love them.
Grenadiers? And yes im subbing some grenadier style models for scions in my own army lol
Those are 3d printed. Scions Krieg style :)
@@ProdigyAstronaut Thanks. Just another reason to look into a 3d Printer.
I honestly see no reason why Scions wouldn't use tanks and artillery. I think of them in the same way as the Waffen SS, and their tank regiments were a serious threat, so my not give the Scions heavy units like Basilisks, Leman Russ' and Rogal Dorns.
Funny you compare them to the Waffen SS as the imperium is a parody of fascistic dictatorships throughout history.
First comment 😁
helldivers go brr.