I loved the diagnosis before the case was even opened! Great repair and you have a new instrument. I hope the bandwidth was not affected by the repair or the accident.
Another great repair video, sometimes the simplest problem is in fact the problem. Hopefully your better half will grace us with her video presence someday soon!
Very educational and helpful . . . . I have an older Fluke 192 60MHz B&W scope meter that developed 'no scope function' but meter works. Issue is common to both channels A&B. Any and all inspiration/tips/hints are appreciated. There is much in this video that inspired as you talked through the troubleshooting analysis. Thanks . . . . : )
I would be interested in seeing your process for finding non working equipment. I have attempted to find some on eBay, but always end up passing when they are only $100 less than a used working item.
Hi, Nice video. At 22:00 it appears the opposing ground pins you selected are capacitively coupled now, instead of going directly to shield. It was difficult to see but I don't believe I would have done this based on what I can see. Did you confirm the shields are still coupled to the BNC ground with your method?
There's no point in saying this was amazing. Every video is just a banger. A few questions if you don't mind - Where do you buy your gear from ? What percentage have you not repaired successfully with all your purchases ? How much have you lost with failed repairs ?
Fuck Google Plus, Retro Power! Well.. Given the bang that must have resulted.. I'm guessing that the underpants would be classified as beyond economic repair.
efox29 I usually get everything from eBay. So far of all my repairs there was two unsuccessful repair attempts. One was an Agilent scope which had a bad acquisition board (custom ADC part which could not be sourced) and there was a frequency counter with a custom front-end step-recovery diode which I could not find a replacement for. Lost a few hundred dollars in total.
The Signal Path Blog Too bad that there haven't been no video on the agilent scope. By the way on ebay there are a lot of instruments so I really would like more repair video they are very good to see!
Wow, that is amazing! You seem to have the luck when it comes to ebay. I have not been so lucky, also so far I could never take the chance on a $500 ebay oscope that didn't work. It seems that it is really not too difficult to repair most of the items you fix. The higher end RF stuff is beyond my experience. I am not afraid to try power supplies and the like. Until I have my lab built up some with good used TE I will have to wait on the "Sold for Parts/Not Working" ebay stuff. I love your channel and watch it every time, than you Shahrir.
Excellent deduction by walking through the problem starting with the probes that gave the classis signs of excessive current flow through the scope. However, I would have expected to see HRC high energy fusing which are far superior than the regular type and may have minimized the damage or possibly absorbed the full potential before blowing sparing the boards. "Nicely Demonstrated"
Dan Frederiksen Well also included with the higher end channel isolated Siglent model are two heavier duty probes. You have the cheaper option of buying a front end module that can be plugged into any scope to give it ground isolation, the trade off is being limited to a 1MHZ band I actually have a shs810 and it's my only and primary scope.
I have the 60mhz 806 model - I tool it apart to check the input protection on the DMM part and I don't remember seeing that resettable fuse, although IRC there was space for it.... As a portable scope, I actually like it a lot better than the Fluke 196. The Siglent DMM part leaves a lot to be desired, however, although the Fluke doesn't have much input protection either, at least not compared to their DMMs. The quality of the Siglent case, is very, very good, possibly better than the Fluke - it did a really, really good job of containing what must have been a pretty massive discharge.
Does this not have isolated grounds? Usually handheld scopes have isolated grounds, and the use of plastic shell BNCs as well as the large gap between the channels would indicate some plans during the design to keep them isolated? Of course the failure mode says otherwise, but this seems very strange.
Nice repair, but do you think the inputs are still safe at the specified max voltage of 300 or even 400V? I'm not sure if I would trust that board with that much copper vaporized onto it..
I’ll take a WAG that the original user thought because the unit was battery operated the measurement taken would be isolated. The point about scope probes is their reference (GND) connections are connected. I feel the o-scope conversation has emphasis related to the third pin (GND) of the NEMA 5-15p connector when discussion of how to not blow-up an o-scope. I agree this is an excellent show case for O-scope reference connections (GND) being connected in the o-scope with no NEMA 5-15p attachment.
Hey, I have just borrowed identical Siglent SHS810. I have tried to measure small DC and AC volts and also small currents (smaller then 100mA). I have discovered that this unit doesn't work properly when the charger is plugged in. The DCV and DCI readings were higher then expected, ACV were flying around. Maybe you can verify if yours unit behaves the same way, if yes it may be a good topic for investigation video!
I remembered some old Dave's video) It's titled like "Mmm... I design computers!" Where he tells that it is the only way to tell to someone unrelated to electronics what an electronics design engineer does)
Thank you for the beautiful video, also congratulations for the partner/assistant/girlfriend. I guess myself have gotten away with measuring high voltage via probes. This lessen was a testament to that. I have a question: Is it possible to measure high voltage with this device at all?
Some scopes have independent grounds, I have a Tektronix THS720A (Yeah I know, as old as the hills). This is looking more and more like a crash investigation video lol. I would have liked to be there when the scope went up, some shocked faces I think !
Awesome! i have one of these and haven't done a teardown, thanks heaps for this vid. Warranty intact for the win! Also, my input jack polarity colours are correct, unlike this one!
Hehehe, making sure we didn't think your cat is your girlfriend 😜 I need to do some research on handheld oscilloscopes for field troubleshooting of intelligent, networked commercial fire alarm systems. I'd love to have a Keysight, but way too expensive. Seems $600 to $1,000 US will be my budget. Any suggestions on robust, single or dual channel manufacture/model?
The next model up in this Siglent handhold scope series has independant grounds, so that's probably how this mistake was made. I think it is a different colour but I never remember which one's which. It does say so next to the BNCs.
KX36 Yes, the next *series* (SHS1xxx) in the Siglent lineup has isolation from ground as well as between channel grounds: www.saelig.com/PSHA/M00110005.htm
that kind of blown wires tell me the guy probably was playing with mains and thought that because it was floating because batteries then both probes would be isolated too. I may be a newbe at electronics and i admit i once shorted a 12V 2A transformer with the probes but when in doubt if something is grounded or not i always check continuity with my meter. Even more so if working with high energy stuff.
Laharl Krichevskoy I think the person who damaged this unit didn't even know or think about floating grounds. I expect they bought it (or were supplied it as part of their job) and assumed that it was a 'fancy multimeter' with fancy test probes - used the two scope probes without the ground crocs as multimeter leads - one on L and one on N...no result, so took off the probe tips and use the bigger contact area on the side....BANG.
that would be too easy to fix for such sophisticated device, I almost want try it myself, although I definitely dont have the necessary knowledge to do so.
I really don't know why they made the power supply on this scopemeter ground referenced and not a floating output. It takes away a lot of their usefullness when plugged in. There's probably no real reason both the power supply and scope can't be class II double insulated devices. I'd be tempted to open up the power supply, break the ground connection to secondary and replace it with a class Y2 cap.
Classic young player error: "I have isolated inputs, now I don't have to think before connecting inputs to high energy circuits" :) BTW, looks like it has quite a lot of trigger jitter?
You haven't removed all the smoke residue form the PCB, it must have contain a lot of carbon aren't you affraid that it may cause a short under higher voltage?
The Signal Path Blog I think it's a trade-off: leaving as-is leaves risk of possible low-impedance path, but scrubbing more (using harsher chemicals or abrasives) may remove some of the solder mask possibly compromising the copper & changing input parameters?
The Signal Path Blog My wife nods a lot when I talk about cool electronics. If I talked to your girlfriend, I'd be the one nodding. Very inspiring, thank you for including her in your video. Very heartwarming. Don't tell me, the cat has an AS in EE or maybe works in HR.
The Signal Path Blog Very few can say that of their girlfriend, but as a genius yourself, it is no surprise you managed it. Excellent repair and particularly impressive analysis. You correctly diagnosed it as soon as you turned the instrument on. You have done the world much good by saving all these instruments.
Newbie question. on a 2 channel handheld dmm oscilloscope, how do you take 2 separate voltage measurements simultaneously while the probe grounds are not isolated by design? I can only assume you cannot? I don't see the the use in a two channel where they cannot Operate independently. It is so hard to find basic information. Any help would be appreciated.
Man... lucky fellow... he's got a talking cat!
Just pulling your leg.
bgdwiepp Haha! Brilliant.
I loved the diagnosis before the case was even opened! Great repair and you have a new instrument. I hope the bandwidth was not affected by the repair or the accident.
Another great repair video, sometimes the simplest problem is in fact the problem. Hopefully your better half will grace us with her video presence someday soon!
Fantastic..... 👍😁 That meter deserves a purple heart 💜 as it has some serious war stories to tell.
Very good example of what I'd like to see more of.
Also it would be nice to know what you paid for each broken equipment...
Excellent job, GF!
davecc0000 This was I think $135 including shipping.
Very educational and helpful . . . . I have an older Fluke 192 60MHz B&W scope meter that developed 'no scope function' but meter works. Issue is common to both channels A&B. Any and all inspiration/tips/hints are appreciated. There is much in this video that inspired as you talked through the troubleshooting analysis. Thanks . . . . : )
I'm just glad I watched this before buying one of those
I would be interested in seeing your process for finding non working equipment. I have attempted to find some on eBay, but always end up passing when they are only $100 less than a used working item.
If only all of life's repairs were as simple as that one.
Cat had approved your repair surgery :)
Nice job, Peter. Thanks for the video.
Hi, Nice video. At 22:00 it appears the opposing ground pins you selected are capacitively coupled now, instead of going directly to shield. It was difficult to see but I don't believe I would have done this based on what I can see. Did you confirm the shields are still coupled to the BNC ground with your method?
So, you have a robotic cat that also talks? It sounded almost perfectly human... : D
Beautifully done!
Another great video...please do more repairs
I understand why for but it still blows my mind that such a violent event didn't take out anything else..
There's no point in saying this was amazing. Every video is just a banger.
A few questions if you don't mind -
Where do you buy your gear from ?
What percentage have you not repaired successfully with all your purchases ?
How much have you lost with failed repairs ?
efox29 One more question: that's a hell of a lot of damage, did this particular oscilloscope come with a pair of used underpants?
Fuck Google Plus, Retro Power!
Well.. Given the bang that must have resulted.. I'm guessing that the underpants would be classified as beyond economic repair.
efox29 I usually get everything from eBay. So far of all my repairs there was two unsuccessful repair attempts. One was an Agilent scope which had a bad acquisition board (custom ADC part which could not be sourced) and there was a frequency counter with a custom front-end step-recovery diode which I could not find a replacement for. Lost a few hundred dollars in total.
The Signal Path Blog Too bad that there haven't been no video on the agilent scope. By the way on ebay there are a lot of instruments so I really would like more repair video they are very good to see!
Wow, that is amazing! You seem to have the luck when it comes to ebay. I have not been so lucky, also so far I could never take the chance on a $500 ebay oscope that didn't work. It seems that it is really not too difficult to repair most of the items you fix. The higher end RF stuff is beyond my experience. I am not afraid to try power supplies and the like. Until I have my lab built up some with good used TE I will have to wait on the "Sold for Parts/Not Working" ebay stuff. I love your channel and watch it every time, than you Shahrir.
Excellent deduction by walking through the problem starting with the probes that gave the classis signs of excessive current flow through the scope. However, I would have expected to see HRC high energy fusing which are far superior than the regular type and may have minimized the damage or possibly absorbed the full potential before blowing sparing the boards. "Nicely Demonstrated"
Why they don't put fuses between BNC and PCB ground? Would it really affect performance?
+Dan Frederiksen Siglent does in fact make a model with isolated grounds but it's $1000 more expensive.
Dan Frederiksen Well also included with the higher end channel isolated Siglent model are two heavier duty probes.
You have the cheaper option of buying a front end module that can be plugged into any scope to give it ground isolation, the trade off is being limited to a 1MHZ band
I actually have a shs810 and it's my only and primary scope.
I have the 60mhz 806 model - I tool it apart to check the input protection on the DMM part and I don't remember seeing that resettable fuse, although IRC there was space for it.... As a portable scope, I actually like it a lot better than the Fluke 196. The Siglent DMM part leaves a lot to be desired, however, although the Fluke doesn't have much input protection either, at least not compared to their DMMs. The quality of the Siglent case, is very, very good, possibly better than the Fluke - it did a really, really good job of containing what must have been a pretty massive discharge.
Super save!
Does this not have isolated grounds?
Usually handheld scopes have isolated grounds, and the use of plastic shell BNCs as well as the large gap between the channels would indicate some plans during the design to keep them isolated?
Of course the failure mode says otherwise, but this seems very strange.
I love the teardown & repair videos good job
Nice repair, but do you think the inputs are still safe at the specified max voltage of 300 or even 400V?
I'm not sure if I would trust that board with that much copper vaporized onto it..
I’ll take a WAG that the original user thought because the unit was battery operated the measurement taken would be isolated. The point about scope probes is their reference (GND) connections are connected. I feel the o-scope conversation has emphasis related to the third pin (GND) of the NEMA 5-15p connector when discussion of how to not blow-up an o-scope. I agree this is an excellent show case for O-scope reference connections (GND) being connected in the o-scope with no NEMA 5-15p attachment.
The Fluke scope-meters are advertised as having independently isolated input channels.
We had a portable Tektronix scope and ch 1 and ch2 grounds were isolated. We later got a Fluke portable scope and the grounds were connected
Wonderful, thank you for this great video! :)
Great repair, thank you.
How come you are no longer posting your videos on EEVBLOG?
I missed a few!
Elden Chang I do post them there. :)
Hey, I have just borrowed identical Siglent SHS810. I have tried to measure small DC and AC volts and also small currents (smaller then 100mA). I have discovered that this unit doesn't work properly when the charger is plugged in. The DCV and DCI readings were higher then expected, ACV were flying around. Maybe you can verify if yours unit behaves the same way, if yes it may be a good topic for investigation video!
Excellent video, thanks!!
What did you use to clean the pcb? Isopropyl alcohol?
my girlfriend tells people i do "computers" you lucky ass XD
I remembered some old Dave's video) It's titled like "Mmm... I design computers!" Where he tells that it is the only way to tell to someone unrelated to electronics what an electronics design engineer does)
I just say I'm a postman ( its a great job !)...its just easier to explain and everyone is happy.
Soooooo easy!
Its sad that I cant buy damaged equipment like that in my country :(
Hi, do you have any idea what's the issue if both scope traces are missing all together on a fluke 199c?
Thanks
Thank you for the beautiful video, also congratulations for the partner/assistant/girlfriend.
I guess myself have gotten away with measuring high voltage via probes. This lessen was a testament to that.
I have a question:
Is it possible to measure high voltage with this device at all?
Some scopes have independent grounds, I have a Tektronix THS720A (Yeah I know, as old as the hills).
This is looking more and more like a crash investigation video lol.
I would have liked to be there when the scope went up, some shocked faces I think !
👍👍 impressive!
Nice repair.
Awesome! i have one of these and haven't done a teardown, thanks heaps for this vid. Warranty intact for the win!
Also, my input jack polarity colours are correct, unlike this one!
awwww a repair date!
How many volts would that take for that explosion to happen? would 120 volts do that to that unit or would it be way more?
Hehehe, making sure we didn't think your cat is your girlfriend 😜
I need to do some research on handheld oscilloscopes for field troubleshooting of intelligent, networked commercial fire alarm systems. I'd love to have a Keysight, but way too expensive. Seems $600 to $1,000 US will be my budget.
Any suggestions on robust, single or dual channel manufacture/model?
The next model up in this Siglent handhold scope series has independant grounds, so that's probably how this mistake was made. I think it is a different colour but I never remember which one's which. It does say so next to the BNCs.
KX36 Yes, the next *series* (SHS1xxx) in the Siglent lineup has isolation from ground as well as between channel grounds:
www.saelig.com/PSHA/M00110005.htm
Done a quick google image search. All models have the common black, so someone must have tinkered with yours.
awsome vid
that kind of blown wires tell me the guy probably was playing with mains and thought that because it was floating because batteries then both probes would be isolated too.
I may be a newbe at electronics and i admit i once shorted a 12V 2A transformer with the probes but when in doubt if something is grounded or not i always check continuity with my meter. Even more so if working with high energy stuff.
Laharl Krichevskoy I think the person who damaged this unit didn't even know or think about floating grounds.
I expect they bought it (or were supplied it as part of their job) and assumed that it was a 'fancy multimeter' with fancy test probes - used the two scope probes without the ground crocs as multimeter leads - one on L and one on N...no result, so took off the probe tips and use the bigger contact area on the side....BANG.
Would copper wire work as well as the foil for repair?
Hi from where can I get the latest firmware? Thanks
that would be too easy to fix for such sophisticated device, I almost want try it myself, although I definitely dont have the necessary knowledge to do so.
I do hope that you handed the custard a very large bill.
Someone probably was measuring the mains on one probe & connected the other probe to rectified mains probably.
There is no inverter circuit on the pcb, so this must be a led backlight.
Somebody puts 230V between grounds of two probes. You are really lucky that not 10000V between pluses ;)
I really don't know why they made the power supply on this scopemeter ground referenced and not a floating output. It takes away a lot of their usefullness when plugged in. There's probably no real reason both the power supply and scope can't be class II double insulated devices. I'd be tempted to open up the power supply, break the ground connection to secondary and replace it with a class Y2 cap.
Classic young player error: "I have isolated inputs, now I don't have to think before connecting inputs to high energy circuits" :) BTW, looks like it has quite a lot of trigger jitter?
Easy repair, if you find the problem :))
That's a good deal for only $135 and some time spent to fix it.
You haven't removed all the smoke residue form the PCB, it must have contain a lot of carbon aren't you affraid that it may cause a short under higher voltage?
Jacek Pawłowski I scrubbed a lot. But perhaps I should clean it more.
The Signal Path Blog I think it's a trade-off: leaving as-is leaves risk of possible low-impedance path, but scrubbing more (using harsher chemicals or abrasives) may remove some of the solder mask possibly compromising the copper & changing input parameters?
Put your girl friend on camera, she is your assistant.
You have a girl friend that knows electronics? You have an amazing electronics lab. Can we trade lives? ;)
WisdomVendor1 Thank you for the sentiment! She has a master's degree in EE.
The Signal Path Blog wow!!!
The Signal Path Blog My wife nods a lot when I talk about cool electronics. If I talked to your girlfriend, I'd be the one nodding. Very inspiring, thank you for including her in your video. Very heartwarming.
Don't tell me, the cat has an AS in EE or maybe works in HR.
Lol my wife is a scientist in chemistry, but when I talk to her about electronics I only get nods too :0(
The Signal Path Blog Very few can say that of their girlfriend, but as a genius yourself, it is no surprise you managed it.
Excellent repair and particularly impressive analysis. You correctly diagnosed it as soon as you turned the instrument on. You have done the world much good by saving all these instruments.
If only they designed it to have a stupidity fuse on the grounds
nice to hear some female voice
>tfw no gf
what is your native language?,you have a strange accent.
Newbie question. on a 2 channel handheld dmm oscilloscope, how do you take 2 separate voltage measurements simultaneously while the probe grounds are not isolated by design? I can only assume you cannot? I don't see the the use in a two channel where they cannot Operate independently. It is so hard to find basic information. Any help would be appreciated.