Do you think Balance could be unrestricted? Is it like Mind Twist where it’s served it’s time but no longer keeps up with the power level of the format? Or would unrestricting it be like running 4x Chalice or Trinisphere where it creates too many non-games?
@@IamActuallyLvL1Balance is a card I’ve thought of ever since one of your previous videos where you talk about some of the broken HollowVine starts, however that deck isn’t as common as it once was. Balance does come with a lot of deck building restrictions in order to maximize it’s effect and it got me thinking if allowing 4x copies could enable a more classic type of control deck. It may be interesting to test, but I may be completely wrong that it could ever be unrestricted.
@@IamActuallyLvL1 Are there historical examples of restricted cards that were played in a small percentage of decks, which became unrestricted and then abused as 4-of’s, and were thus restricted again?
I would love to see a video where you discuss the Vintage restrictions so you could go more in dept about what unrestricting certain cards could bring to the format. Probably doesn't have to be very long as you could just skip the moxen or very shortly say "I want Karn restricted, no questions asked, same thing for this and this and that". Maybe could be good content not just as an actual conversation but also as a way to brainstorm potential brews if certain cards would be restricted/unrestricted. Edit: now that i say this... didn't you already say something about this and about why you don't make this content? Or am i imagining this
Saga does produce a fair amount of Vault / Key non-games. But, the meta seems pretty diverse with plenty of spots for Shops, MWI and Bhazar so it's hard to argue that the Lorien / Saga shells are so good that something needs to be done.
Wasteland is one of the most broken cards of all time so I would say that playing the card easier does make your deck better especially with so many other wastelands and sagas around
Powerful cards enabling fun strategies is true of vintage and legacy. The power of the blue suite in legacy allows me to play "bad" cards like Stoneforge Mystic that I enjoy playing with. Vintage doesn't move as much and you have to mainboard hate, unlike legacy. I think legacy is the better format at the moment, but vintage is in a great spot too.
As someone who plays both formats I think you have it backwards. The powerful blue suite in Vintage lets you play lots of bad cards as long as u meet the blue count for FoW where in legacy u have to answer a lot of different requirements. Vintage moves alot and very cyclically where as Legacy is mostly stable same deck at the top for years and years. Prefer Vintage alot over legacy right now but I think Legacy is pretty good too. Enjoyed playing both the EW events.
I feel that the meta is pretty healthy right now. That said, even as a player I kinda feel like Saga is a relatively reasonable restriction to make an argument for. It's super strong and pretty much every deck that can run it effectively will, and I think that may be to the detriment of format diversity. The Lurrus/xerox piles are now pretty much forced into only being 2 colors because they can't reliably support a 3 color manabase and cast color heavy cards while also playing a bunch of colorless lands. I'm not saying the card should be restricted, but if they said in the next 3 years that saga or lorien got restricted, I'd probably just nod and be like "yeah, that sounds pretty fair."
@@IamActuallyLvL1 it's been weird. very inconsistent (well, more than usual) and you feel like you have less agency, even when you're winning. it kind of went from "utilizing bazaar as an engine to gain lots of resources and develop a fast clock" to something that feels more like an aggro deck than anything else. which is ok as far as i'm concerned but i understand why people like it less. What i'm trying to say i guess is that us bazaar gamers are used to the top of our deck mattering less than usual, and being able to play more "dead" cards like squee, and now on dredge on the draw, i'm getting more and more tempted to, when my opponent reveals a lurrus, just keep a 7 with a stinkweed imp in it and no bazaar and play like legacy manaless dredge. it's really not a good idea but that's what the meta feels like.
@@y00zvaporeon lorien revealed has made wasteland and saga almost ubiquitous now. it's not about being outvalued, it's about playing the game after they inevitably answer your bazaar.
Cruise, Dig, Narsett, Windfall, and Library can probably come off and I can't see anything there breaking the format health. That type of deck doesn't really exist right now outside of a Breacher/Bowmaster thinggy, which is where those cards slot. A "fair" deck that can add more control back in might be a pro. Channel might actually be a fun shake up too. Restricting Lorien is just not a thing I think is a good idea. That's the cycle that always exists to stop the enablers and not the problem, but is Saga Gaming really that much of a problem where is needs to be cut off? No one is going to play a 1x Saga, so that removes the card entirely from the card pool. Good luck in Pittsburgh!
I consider the lurrus saga decks to be both very fair and very control. So i think it needs to be propped up. But I'm also not convinced any of those cards are too big a deal in the current environment either. I dont think saga gaming is an issue but others seem to. I do disagree that decks wouldn't play 1. I think most decks would actually
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Drop your comments on Metagame Health, Urza's Saga, and the concept of Unrestrictions!
Do you think Balance could be unrestricted? Is it like Mind Twist where it’s served it’s time but no longer keeps up with the power level of the format? Or would unrestricting it be like running 4x Chalice or Trinisphere where it creates too many non-games?
I dont really think anything good would come out of a 4x balance deck. So id be leaning towards no here.
@@IamActuallyLvL1Balance is a card I’ve thought of ever since one of your previous videos where you talk about some of the broken HollowVine starts, however that deck isn’t as common as it once was. Balance does come with a lot of deck building restrictions in order to maximize it’s effect and it got me thinking if allowing 4x copies could enable a more classic type of control deck. It may be interesting to test, but I may be completely wrong that it could ever be unrestricted.
@85mcarnold balance isn't actually a control card tho. Its a combo card. Deploy your moxen and wipe op hand away
@@IamActuallyLvL1 Are there historical examples of restricted cards that were played in a small percentage of decks, which became unrestricted and then abused as 4-of’s, and were thus restricted again?
I would love to see a video where you discuss the Vintage restrictions so you could go more in dept about what unrestricting certain cards could bring to the format. Probably doesn't have to be very long as you could just skip the moxen or very shortly say "I want Karn restricted, no questions asked, same thing for this and this and that". Maybe could be good content not just as an actual conversation but also as a way to brainstorm potential brews if certain cards would be restricted/unrestricted.
Edit: now that i say this... didn't you already say something about this and about why you don't make this content? Or am i imagining this
I have a tier list video but its a bit outdated now. (flash but atraxa wasnt printed etc)
Saga does produce a fair amount of Vault / Key non-games. But, the meta seems pretty diverse with plenty of spots for Shops, MWI and Bhazar so it's hard to argue that the Lorien / Saga shells are so good that something needs to be done.
even if it does its not like vault key isnt an easy combo to interact with and stop and isnt quite a fast combo
@@IamActuallyLvL1 For sure. I tend to agree with you that things are looking pretty good for Vintage. I would not restrict Saga or whatever.
I'd try to unrestrict Library and Imperial Seal maybe.
Do you feel that decks that can play 4x Wasteland easily is better than decks which cannot (in the current meta)? Solely on the power of Wasteland.
Wasteland is one of the most broken cards of all time so I would say that playing the card easier does make your deck better especially with so many other wastelands and sagas around
unrestrict balance
This guy gets it
I mean, what was the last brand new shell? Initiative?
Init and Lurrus Saga imo. So two brand new ones in the last year is pretty large.
Init one is really nice for the format
Powerful cards enabling fun strategies is true of vintage and legacy. The power of the blue suite in legacy allows me to play "bad" cards like Stoneforge Mystic that I enjoy playing with. Vintage doesn't move as much and you have to mainboard hate, unlike legacy. I think legacy is the better format at the moment, but vintage is in a great spot too.
As someone who plays both formats I think you have it backwards. The powerful blue suite in Vintage lets you play lots of bad cards as long as u meet the blue count for FoW where in legacy u have to answer a lot of different requirements. Vintage moves alot and very cyclically where as Legacy is mostly stable same deck at the top for years and years. Prefer Vintage alot over legacy right now but I think Legacy is pretty good too. Enjoyed playing both the EW events.
I feel that the meta is pretty healthy right now. That said, even as a player I kinda feel like Saga is a relatively reasonable restriction to make an argument for.
It's super strong and pretty much every deck that can run it effectively will, and I think that may be to the detriment of format diversity. The Lurrus/xerox piles are now pretty much forced into only being 2 colors because they can't reliably support a 3 color manabase and cast color heavy cards while also playing a bunch of colorless lands.
I'm not saying the card should be restricted, but if they said in the next 3 years that saga or lorien got restricted, I'd probably just nod and be like "yeah, that sounds pretty fair."
as you say this multiple players have being finding success with esper and grixis lurrus saga variants tho
@IamActuallyLvL1 really? Damn, ya tune out of the format for a week lol
i mean i'm a filthy bazaar gamer, i don't like how saga and lorien revealed have made wasteland as prolific as it is.
statistically bazaar is in a worse spot but still not a bad spot. How do u feel personally playing bazaar decks into the meta?
@@IamActuallyLvL1 it's been weird. very inconsistent (well, more than usual) and you feel like you have less agency, even when you're winning. it kind of went from "utilizing bazaar as an engine to gain lots of resources and develop a fast clock" to something that feels more like an aggro deck than anything else. which is ok as far as i'm concerned but i understand why people like it less.
What i'm trying to say i guess is that us bazaar gamers are used to the top of our deck mattering less than usual, and being able to play more "dead" cards like squee, and now on dredge on the draw, i'm getting more and more tempted to, when my opponent reveals a lurrus, just keep a 7 with a stinkweed imp in it and no bazaar and play like legacy manaless dredge. it's really not a good idea but that's what the meta feels like.
if my thoughts on the meta were more coherent i could have my own youtube channel lol, i wish at least some of that made sense
@@tzvirubin9708 What happened to the bazaar/squee decks? Do they just get outed by saga? I mean the value was real.
@@y00zvaporeon lorien revealed has made wasteland and saga almost ubiquitous now. it's not about being outvalued, it's about playing the game after they inevitably answer your bazaar.
Ever think vintage will go the yugioh route and make semi-limits(2)?
they referenced that in the stream. Answer is very very unlikely
hi justing
Cruise, Dig, Narsett, Windfall, and Library can probably come off and I can't see anything there breaking the format health. That type of deck doesn't really exist right now outside of a Breacher/Bowmaster thinggy, which is where those cards slot. A "fair" deck that can add more control back in might be a pro. Channel might actually be a fun shake up too. Restricting Lorien is just not a thing I think is a good idea. That's the cycle that always exists to stop the enablers and not the problem, but is Saga Gaming really that much of a problem where is needs to be cut off? No one is going to play a 1x Saga, so that removes the card entirely from the card pool.
Good luck in Pittsburgh!
I consider the lurrus saga decks to be both very fair and very control. So i think it needs to be propped up. But I'm also not convinced any of those cards are too big a deal in the current environment either.
I dont think saga gaming is an issue but others seem to. I do disagree that decks wouldn't play 1. I think most decks would actually