I would love this segment. We are getting too caught up in new cameras rather than what really sells a better image: lighting, production design, lens, etc. If you can do a series of trying to match old cameras to the best image when compared to their new counterparts, it would be great!
Honestly yes. I haven't thought about new cameras since I got an Ursa Mini 4.6k some years ago and realized it was up to me to make things look good. After learning a lot more, I realized how much more capable my less expensive cameras had been the whole time. Now it's hard to watch people obsess over new cameras with marginally better specs... just buy more lights and save up a production design budget if you want to make something that actually comes across like a film.
And for full daylight shooting, low ISOs. My cellphone has a native ISO of 40, and it produces AMAZING colors. My Canon with a native ISO of 100... not so much.
Same thing I noticed. Since this and a lot more videos the price raised a lot and, personally, despite I love his videos, I hate these trend-like things where everyone is compulsively buying everything without a reason (I hope I'm assuming the worst). Probably he bought it when prices weren't this up, but it's really scary how it changed in 4 months, really scary.
@@FrankValchiria I actually found some F3 on Ebay on sale for 800 or less, unfortunately I didn't have the money at the time but if I had known that prices would rise as they had I'd have found a way to buy one of those.
I wouldn't be surprised if people watched this video and suddenly decided these cameras were for them. The problem with being a successful RUclipsr is that you may influence people to buy a lot of something and unintentionally jack up the prices. For example, Scotty Kilmer did this when he praised Toyota Celicas and vintage hunting jackets went up a great deal on eBay thanks to Paul Harrell's habit of pulling guns and ammo out of his pockets.
@@crimebodge7274 www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PMW-F3L-Camcorder-with-4-4-4-RGB-option-CASE-AND-BATTERY-INCLUDED/254780463657?epid=113366523&hash=item3b52195a29:g:SpIAAOSwAu5fswaR found this for 1k easily within 5mins, is this the same camera?
Would love to see you continue this series. You’ve always set the bar when it comes to thorough tests and informative videos without sacrificing entertainment or interest. 👏🏻
Never in my entire professional career in television and digital video have I ever been asked to deliver a final file in 4K. The standard for delivery is still 1080p and will continue to be for along time. There are some great bargains to be had in old cinema cameras that don't shoot 4K. The C300 Mark 1 for example is an AMAZING camera that you can pick up used from around $1000.
Let's be honest here : almost nobody shooting in 4K actually need to shoot in 4K. Netflix will ask that you deliver in 4K - alright, alright... but that's only because they want to offer 4K streaming. And no one but a few individual can actually stream 4K... because it takes and in-sa-ne bandwith, a 4K screen, 4K cables, and insane connection stability. Very, very few people have this. The vast majority who "stream in 4K" *think* they stream in 4K, but in fact, they're *not*. "4K" just became a go-to marketing term that impresses anyone who doesn't know anything about this business. The vast majority of 4K cameras are cheap as hell, and pixel density is the *last thing that matters*. Stream Netflix's Altered Carbon at 540p and you'll get what I'm saying. The dynamic range from the large-format Arri that have been used in this series for the first time is so insane, your eyes forget about the pixels anyway, since this is motion picture... and yes, if I concentrate I can see pixels in 1080p. But it doesn't bother me to have a no more than an ok wifi when I watch Netflix because what matters is the lighting, lens choice, focus-pulling and dynamic range of the camera and nothing more. The whole "I got a 4K camera and I can bake-in a LUT so I'm a DP now" thing just gets me real fed-up.
obviously never worked for Netflix lol (i take your point though, and the chances of landing a lucrative Netflix deal are very small for us indies, if we're even aiming for that)
I've been using an F3 as my main camera for my RUclips channel for the past 2 years. Most people don't know this, but the sensor actually downscales from 2.5K to give a nice sharp 1080p image. The internal structure of the camera is made of magnesium and the stereo sound with the F3's optional $3,000 (original price) microphone is fantastic. I would highly recommend picking up one of these workhorse cameras for pro work too. I plan on upgrading to an Alexa Classic soon, but the F3 will stay as my B-cam and run and gun setup.
Do you shoot 444 with it? I have one without it and I would love to have the 444 because I have a pix e5 that would get me up to 4444XQ. Is it worth it to sell mine and get one with the upgrade?
@@josuenunez5353 Honestly most of the time I just shoot internal for the sake of quick turnaround/ storage. I've found that the difference between the external 10 bit files are a big jump from internal 8 bit, but the 12 bit 444 files aren't a big image jump over the 10 bit.
Jesse Paton Reminds me Mattias Burling reviews, he always shows cameras claiming he paid like 50% less that the average price everybody else in the world can find them lol
You’ve gone too far this time!!! You can’t be “DSLR video shooter” and use cinema cameras. I accepted the mirrorless cameras, but this is a bridge I will not cross. Just kidding, I thought that this was super interesting. It makes me wonder what overlooked configurations might be out there. It might be cool to do a series focused on finding the best value options at various price points. For instance, (all in) how would this compare to other configurations at the price point?
Ted Jones “do you hear how fat my neck humbucker sounds right now? Way better than my last Les Paul. Plus this one has coil splitting so it’s basically a strat whenever I want it to be.”
What is the use case for that? I mean, other than you being able to score internet points for finding the one thing you could criticize the camera for and therefore feeling vindicated for shelling out 1000s for the latest greatest gear that the RUclips hypetrain sold you. 😉
@@MiaogisTeas or you know, that's how they use cameras and are curious to see how it would perform. Or maybe I'm wrong and everyone is as cynical as you assume.
Stabilization is not good on this cameras. Use Olympus, if you need stabilized footage in 5 axis. But colors and dynamic range is good. This is my todays video from Sony PMW-200, graded: ruclips.net/video/bdy2ldvQEyc/видео.html
@@Wabajak13 That was exactly what I was after. At $800 it's still in the 'starter' range of cameras so an amateur like me craving some special look to the footage would come charging in and create terrible content by using a device that wasn't meant to be used in that way.
this is the type of camera customer need to see you with when you are recording an event for them. They think the bigger, the better so they will pay you what you asked them for, unlike if you present your self to an event with the *α6400.* I had got questioned when doing event.
That's a good point. There are times these cameras can be intimidating and intrusive. But sometimes it can work to your advantage. Try explaining the difference in resolution on that old PD-170 and an iphone and you might get a blank stare. lol
I'd argue it's a better camera for an event, too. Dedicated control buttons, internal NDs and being quite weighty mean for run and gun it is honestly in a league of its own. I shoot on both the F3 snd the A7S and I'd take an F3, barring low light, to an event any day.
@@dslrvideoshooter me too but i would like to see more of real footage like shooting in daylight to watch a diffrence in DR or Rollingshutter, anyway great video !
@@pawechekowski9186 Yes! More rolling shutter tests, PLEASE!!!!!!!! I was/am looking to buy a Sony A7iii. While doing my research, other YT channels were making a good case for the a6500, so I checked it out. I was almost all in, until they did a rolling shutter test.
@@johnhumbug5199 Yes I see, but bread and butter comes from seminars, TV interviews, conventions and local spots which does not required the latest but requires XLRs Zooms and Presence. This camera fills the void quickly.
Who would pay max $1200 for this camera. 1080p is become obsolete now, most TVs and monitors are at leat 2K even smaryphones. Try to watch a 1080p video on a 4k tv. It may be worth $800 if the colors and dynamic range were out of this world at 1080p, but from the look of it, the image quality is pretty average and the low light capabilities are pretty bad. That's a big turn down.
This SONY F3 is a testament to great SUPER 35 engineering. I learned on a similar ENG camera (EX-1) and realized these cameras set a better standard (2K/1920/1080) for the modern era of image quality, by keeping things stable. 4K/8K just allow better high dynamic range capture -- but 2K keeps everything very efficient. Ideally, we have more tools than we actually need, due to excessive industry competition. Good video dude! 🎥🤔
I bought this camera when it was released 10 years ago along with a set of Angenieux Optimo DP zooms, 16-42 & 30-80. It replaced my Sony F900 and Canon Cine B4 mount lenses. The F3/Angenieux combination was used for many local commercials and corporate videos. At that time I was also an early adapter of off board recording. I paired the F3 with a Cinedeck recorder. Something 10 years ago was unheard of on professional productions. They didn’t understand that I was giving them 10bit 4:4:4 RGB in Prores. Something at that time was only possible on a $125,000.00 Panasonic D5 deck and no Prores. Today no one bats an eye at an off board recorder but then no one understood what an awesome product I was delivering by doing it that way. Sony made a wired remote “paintbox” that gave me control of all the menu functions of the camera. I would actually “paint” the look with the DP and burned it in for delivery, no post color correction was done to the footage. The F3 and the lenses are still in my inventory. The camera doesn’t get used any longer but the lenses do. There’s something to be said for investing in good glass instead of cameras I guess. No baloney Sony. Good stuff. Enjoyed your video. Being from Detroit I can’t help but leave you with a line from a Bob Seger song “I thought to myself...shit I’ve known that for 10 years!”
The comparison is kind of pointless. I mean you put an external recorder on the cinema camera. And it is well known, that to get the most out of a sony mirrorless camera you don't shoot in slog 2. Slog 2 flattens the picture so much and uses so little of the 8 bit color space that as soon as you stretch the image out again through luts, the limits of 8 bit become visible. This is less a comparison of cameras and more a comparison of 8bit vs 10bit and different color profiles
@@Max27653 Cine2 is a very popular profile that is not as flat but still retains great dynamic range. (And as a bonus you have a way lower minimum iso then with slog 2 or 3) And it is well know by everybody who understand the limitations of 8bit and has in depth knowledge of the sony system. This video goes into depth about the different profiles, it is worth a watch and you will understand, why slog2 or 3 is not the ideal profile for sonys consumer mirrorless cameras, that only have 8bit color depth. ruclips.net/video/9E8doNzDymo/видео.html
@@jakob.k_design What's your thoughts on PP4? All I know is that the overheating issues are bad on any camera from the a-series except (maybe) the a6600 which is a dealbreaker in itself. Doing an interview and telling people to hold that thought for 10 min while the camera has a snooze is a content disturbing disaster. Missing the ring part of a wedding etc. And shooting a doc where you can run the camera continuously covering an event, just to have the camera shutdown at the crucial moment of the scene nixes any colour conversation. F3 blows the 6400 out of the water in that regard - it's a tank and flawless in that regard. The a6600 is only camera worth buying in that series, AND only - in my case - because of the tiny form factor for incognito shooting where you do not want a ton of attention to get cinema-veritie direct cinema content. When content is key in low-profile situations, the low-light capable 6400 with its subpar 8bit 4.2.0 low data rate is what you want, and here slight magenta infused grays or other non-perfect visual aesthetics are not a large concern. And you can use Caleb's advice on how to help with that in his useful Sony colour issues vid. We need to think more about what we are going to use a particular camera for and what genre. Clearly, the A7S iii is the way to go but if budget is a consideration, for indies, you can get the a6600 at less than half the price (with an on-camera Beachtek mini-mixer). As far as colour, where form factor means nothing and you are not delivering on 4K, the F3 is by far the superior camera in RGB 444 Slog-1 mode to an external recorder - it's very Alexa like with skin-tones, creamy roll-off, and lovely colour science. What I would be interested in knowing is that if anyone has tried to up-res 444 from the F3 to 2 or 4K, shooting with sharp lenses; as I suspect the images would be unique from the pack and likely more film-analog like. Thanks Caleb for inspiring richer conversations to happen without the tech focus being the holy grail.
It's basically a c100 mark Ii but Sony! Really cool camera, but I can't find it for 800 now, only about 1500. I think this video moved the market a bit! 😅
I would to see you do a video on a Sony HDW Series camera which are part of Sony's CineAlta range but were produced in 1994, 26 years ago. They were some of the first HD camera's made and in my opinion still hold up today with custom gammas implemented which is incredible.
What a great review on this camera! I wouldn't be surprised if they sell like hot cakes on eBay as a result of this. One thing I should point out that I don't think was mentioned that is pretty important to know about this camera,... There was an update firmware option would allow you to shoot this camera at 444 off the sensor. It wasn't a RAW image, you would ideally use the ProRes HQ Wrapper and Codec, however, it is 444. I do know that back in the day, that is how many of the larger commercial houses used this camera. Another note, this camera was used as a B-Camera to the famous Sony F5 and F55 all the time. Credits all over the place for that. And one last thing, my true inspiration behind this camera came from one shooter who used this camera like it was an extension of his body and he is Zach Zamboni. He was the director of photography and primary shooter on the Anthony Bourdain show. I don't know about you, but I used to love the watching these shows. I couldn't get over the low light, rich color, and dynamic range I was witnessing in the show. Come to find out later that Zach shot everything on SXS cards, So, it was all the internal 420 8bit codec. You got to hand it to the editor and colorist on that show, because that footage looked Amazing. He did however, use a Fuji 19-90mm Cabrio T2.9 which I think at the time was about $40K.
Finishing up a feature I shot with two Panasonic AF100. Paid $1200 total for both ($5k retail in 2011). Some pretty damned good images, and if I wasn't such a sucky cinematographer, they'd be great :-)
Edit: Sorry guys, the offer for footage was to Caleb specifically. That said, I'll see if I can find some of my old stuff and post before/after grading to my channel. . Logged in and was surprised to see my old workhorse being featured! A couple thoughts: 1) Recording internally I was competing against smaller DSLRs of the time that were far more agile. Recording externally, I was competing with RED. The name brand (clients thought it was best), and eventually the resolution increase. 2) If you really want to unlock the full range of the F3's colour, grab yourself a 4:4:4 recorder, use dual-SDI output, and watch your jaw hit the floor. If you want a couple files, let me know and I'll try digging them out of the archives.
hey, id love to see some of the footage you got! Would you put it on your channel or send it to me!!! Thinking of my future B Cam beside my original bmpcc that has similar qualities
I've been using this camera for the last year as my introduction into owning my own 'big' camera. I've loved it. The colour, ease of grading slog1 and dynamic range is great. It just has a really nice look. Also, the 8bit 4:2:0 straight out of camera is awesome for most stuff, I ended up rarely using my external recorder. I thank my mentor time and time again for directing me towards a big practical beautiful camera rather than the new, impractical, hot kid on the block (BMPC) - he said "do you want to learn how to use a camera? Or just have nice specs". Beautiful image, practical camera, ease of grade trumps small form factor camera with 4k any day.... unless you're shooting for Netflix or the likes of course!
LOVE this kind of content! Really gives a good perspective on gear and how/what to buy. You should TOTALLY do one on the BlackMagic Cinema Camera (BMCC) 2.5K (the grey bricks)!!
You should have bought Sony fs700r: 4k 60fps/120fps/ 1080p 240fps 10bit 422 or DNG 12bit 444 RAW when connected to Atomos Shogun 4k Inferno. The price between F3 and FS700R is only several hundred dollars difference when buying used.
The green and magenta banding can be "fixed" by increasing the saturation while recording then reducing before grading. I've been doing it for over a year and I haven't noticed and gamut clipping so it's definitely worth it. (Also fixes the blotchy skin tones)
FINALLY someone to make a series about older cinema cameras and comparing them to newer ones! Cannot wait for the future reviews! Keep up the good work!!!
I would love it if you profiled the AJA Cion. Such a promising camera that got trounced because of Blackmagic announcing the Ursa Mini at half the cost. You can find them used for around $1200-$1500 now. So many negative quirks (lied about their dynamic range, no true LOG profile), but also so many positive features (wide range of codecs, global shutter, and output of 4K RAW to Atomos). For the price it was at when it came out it just wasn't good enough to compete with Blackmagic, but I wonder how good it is now that it's around the same price as a used C100 MKI
I Shot a feature film off of the Cion for free through their #TryCion Program. Needless to say, I was IMPRESSED with the Camera and the things we could do with it. We actually SAVE a bunch of shots with that Camera. Here's the trailer for it - ruclips.net/video/rvwro1BVo9g/видео.html
@@crosbyt123ify I wanted to take advantage of that so bad when it came out but I simply did not have the time or anything in mind to shoot with it. It's a shame, I feel like they could've evolved it a bit and made something better. When they announced it I remember it kind of shook the industry, and then Blackmagic showed up and everyone was just writing it off as a failure before it even came out.
@@Max-lk2ro It's all good. We didn't have a lot of money to purchase monitors and things like that. We shot this with whatever we had and days we had to made a feature film out of it. But I appreciate your comments and honestly. It means a lot.
is the thought that the image and colour processing/sensor in general are "softer/warmer" or more cinematic which is more "traditionally" pleasing to the eye that makes the cinema cams so much better in your opinion? As opposed to the coldness of the newer sharper cameras? I don't know much about these things, but it seems like the people that do, like you, always lean towards cameras that have that softer/warmer side that is seemingly missing from the the more cold colour rigid digital sharpness that new cameras
This is particularly a Sony issue. The newer Canon cameras all have the warmer, more pleasing skin tone and overall warmer and more saturated colors. The highlights on this particular camera are really beautiful. The image is really comparable to the original black magic pocket. Softer and more filmic looking than the newer models.
These cameras have always been "nicer to work with than the stinking mirrorless cameras which just look terrible". RUclipsrs like you decided for yourselves that DSLR and mirrorless were superior. Please don't start a series on Cine, ENG or camcorders; that'll just be rude MR DSLR Video Shooter.
You are mistaken about the lack of 1080/60p. The models that have the 444 upgrade can output 1080/60p with a single SDI to the cheap Black Magic Video Assist. Your model can output 60p at 1080, you just need a recorder than can accept dual band SDI. (Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q)
This is one of the most entertaining videos I've seen on RUclips in awhile. I love old technology, and I'm still blown away at how good it really is. We often forget how perfect it was when it came out. New technology sometimes shortens our memory. I look forward to checking out more of your videos. Kudos, sir.
You let the secret out of the bag! Been shooting a F3 for the last 4 months for all the reasons you state. Rock solid image and built in ND's. Also throw the footage in a ACES timeline and the footage really sings :)
I owned this camera for about four years and put about 3,500 hours on it. I kick myself now when I put that footage through Resolve Color Management and see the full potential of the sensor! My old footage never looked this good!
We got the used FS700 (with the 4K upgrade) and Atomos Shogun combo happening the past year and it's been awesome. Worked well with the existing FS7 and tag teamed probably 30+ productions, mostly construction / manufacturing showcases and the slomo was used to great effect. Paid for itself within a month or so. Thanks for the showcase on the F3. Now eyeing a used F3 as a studiocam.
I would say he needs to change the title. He ruined the prices of the Sony F3. This camera didn't sell for 2500$ since like 2015. Besides, you still need an expensive recorder to go along since the internal codec is only 8 bit 4:2:0 at a very low bit rate. Which is abysmal for editing and color grading. I never thought I would see the fs700 as a better bargain than this camera now. The fs700 was usually double the price of the Sony F3.
Rock And Roll Kitchen unfortunately it’s going to take a while for this camera to drop again. Maybe not too long because of all the new cameras coming out.
YES! I Have owned this beautiful thing for years and shot hundreds of high profile projects on it. People are always asking if I used the Alexa, and are gobsmacked when I tell them about the little F3. Above everything, the image quality and colour science is just so pleasing with the S LOG. It's unreal. It's also so well designed, economical on space, and tough. Get one!
You touched my heart, I mostly prefer opting to buy a premium pro camera that others consider outdated. These pro models are trustworthy to last. They seem outdated, lest we forget that they were star performers when released.
If anyone wants to see this camera in action, my two short films Time Oddity and Checkmate were filmed on this camera. Time Oddity was also nominated for cinematography in a film festival.
Absolutely fantastic video! I just picked up an F3 myself and have been having all sorts of fun playing with the settings. The only issue i'm having is with measuring correct exposure in SLOG. Could you recommend a good setting for zebras (measuring according to skin tones)? Any help would be so so appreciated!
I love this. As a total beginner trying to get into filmmaking as a hobby, knowing what older but affordable cinema cameras are still worth buying is invaluable information. Please move forward with this series. Also I’ve seen your Chinon Cinema Lens Set Video and I was wondering if you have any plans on doing another series on affordable cinema lenses, or photo lenses that work for cinema lenses.
don't even think about getting this one, really. any modern mirrorless camera beats it in many ways Caleb doesn't mention: weight, autofocus, lenses, compatibility etc.
Caleb: @7:20 you mention the ‘proper’ sony luts, where might one find those ? I have been struggling with color correction and then grading my footage off my a6400 (thanks for the suggestion by the way) and it drives me effing batty. GRRRR. If there are Sony Luts for the a6400 that would just about make my day!!!!
For better accuracy, go with the Leeming LUT over the generic Sony ones. I use the a6600 and the Cine 2 LUT is very good. S-LOG on 8-bit cameras is not recommended.
Great points are sprinkled throughout this review. I suggest doing the same with a Sony CineAlta F35. That beast of the camera can outshine any xxK camera today. Although F35 is crippled to 1080p the final output beautiful renders to cinema35mm projection celluloid with perfect roll-offs in highlights and shadows and 4K copies are often better than most " claimed native 4k " modern cameras. After shooting Cinema worthy scenes on F35 and color numbering and grading them on a pro system by a pro colorist you will never consider any other camera " Pro Cinema Camera " with the exception of Arri Alexa family of cameras. And shooting on it is simply a joy as it is fully cinema level functional with minimalist rigging and accessorizing. Looking forward to get your opinion
I recently sold my F35 for around $3,500. Considering it was $250,000 back in 2008, it's an amazing value these days for the image alone. Just don't expect to have fun with it as a one-man-band! Extremely big and heavy. But miles ahead of something like a C100 for 1080p.
As you've had experience with the F35, what would you think of the Sony CineAlta Venice and the Sony CineAlta Venice 2, now? What do you think? If you see this, I would appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
*tl;dr: only the SDI A/B ports can output 10-bit 4:2:2, also you can record 1080p60 externally (with the RGB444 upgrade).* Are you plugging your SDI into the SDI A port? The SDI out and HDMI ports are limited to 8-bit 4:2:0 output, only the SDI A and B ports can output 10-bit 4:2:2 (up to 30p normally, up to 60p with the RGB444 upgrade) and 4:4:4 (with RGB444 upgrade). I think it's also worth mentioning the differences between the firmware upgrade and the RGB444 upgrade. - The firmware upgrade adds the SLog picture profile via a software update and can be applied to any F3. - The "paid" RGB444 upgrade gives you 3G SDI via SDI A and B ports (so you can get 4:2:2 1080p60 through a single port or 4:4:4 1080p60 through two dual-link ports, not 100% sure about that second one), and obviously gives you 4:4:4 output. It also gives you a slightly different SLog compared to the firmware upgrade (firmware upgrade version of SLog still works concurrently). It's pretty common to find RGB444 pre-installed for the same price or a little more. So you *can* get 1080p60 out of the F3 through a single SDI cable as long as you get one with the RGB444 upgrade. I've personally got one kitted out with Element Technica Armour and a Blackmagic Video Assist (cheapest monitor/recorder for 1080p60 4:2:2 I think). Without the RGB444 upgrade, I believe you can still get 1.5G dual link (rather than 3G dual link), so you could dual-link two 1080i60 fields to get 1080p60. But that would involve a rather pricey dual-link recorder which is pretty counter-intuitive.
Thanks for using it. I designed the electric circuit and image quality adjustment of this camera. I was surprised at the low noise and good sensitivity of the image sensor.
I've actually been looking at these used on eBay, been considering getting a camera like it. Torn between Sony and Panasonic offerings. This was exactly the type of video I wanted to see. I would love to see a video on one of the Panasonic camcorders with interchangeable lenses.
I still use Panasonic's AF100 with Atmos Ninja and footage looks good. Just shoot for your look and do minimal grading. The features for usability rocks. I studied Cinematography in Film School so I approach it from an artistic foundation.
Thanks Caleb, interesting & valuable video. The problems arise if something goes wrong with an older camera. Repairs are very expensive - if you can find someone to do them. A slight bit of rust or even dust on a gear can cause your camera to be useless. Older cameras are more prone to this and if it happens you've just lost $800.
When I went to Film School, this was the "BIG" digital cinema camera our department invested in. I think we paid $16k and traded some stuff to get it used. We paired it mostly with old cine-modded Nikon glass. We loved the image quality on it, but we had to record externally to a Ki Pro external recorder to get the upgraded 10-Bit 4:4:4, and I remember that seeming like a big hassle at the time. By the time we got it, Magic Lantern RAW and the on-sale $500 BMPCC became the de facto choice for us.
I passed up the opportunity to buy an older cinema camera last year. The price seemed good but I wasn't sure how it would stack up to what audiences are used to seeing today. I probably don't shoot enough video to justify purchasing more cameras, though, so it's probably for the best :P
I have a feeling that after this review, the price of these used cameras will double lol. Hope I'm wrong. Seems like an awesome buy. If I hadn't already invested in the BMPCC 4K and all the accessories, I'd probably have gone down this road.
For anyone wondering how it will hold up on indie features or series, this is one example we shot with this F3 Cine but outputting to KiPro recorder. ruclips.net/video/JBz-hQuG03o/видео.html
i, as a panasonic guy, would really lovr to see the AF100/AF101 in modern day standards, it doesn't seem all that special, but with the right glass i've seen it work wonders
Hi. New hugger here ☺️👍 I know this is an Outdated model, but can you give a video tips about Pentax k50 on how to get great vlog videos with it. Thanks so much
Compare 6:27 and 6:55. They both say a6400, internal HD, but the second, s-log-2 version looks like it has much higher resolution. What's going on here, is this a labeling mistake?
I would love this segment. We are getting too caught up in new cameras rather than what really sells a better image: lighting, production design, lens, etc. If you can do a series of trying to match old cameras to the best image when compared to their new counterparts, it would be great!
Honestly yes. I haven't thought about new cameras since I got an Ursa Mini 4.6k some years ago and realized it was up to me to make things look good. After learning a lot more, I realized how much more capable my less expensive cameras had been the whole time. Now it's hard to watch people obsess over new cameras with marginally better specs... just buy more lights and save up a production design budget if you want to make something that actually comes across like a film.
Totally agree. Well said. ☕👏
@@ConnerFoxx nicely said. I also recently went through a period of discovering that my old camera is a lot better than my skills give it credit for
ruclips.net/video/KK9FlPejcc8/видео.html shot on f3
And for full daylight shooting, low ISOs. My cellphone has a native ISO of 40, and it produces AMAZING colors. My Canon with a native ISO of 100... not so much.
not sure were you bought it but on ebay nothing less than 2k
Same thing I noticed. Since this and a lot more videos the price raised a lot and, personally, despite I love his videos, I hate these trend-like things where everyone is compulsively buying everything without a reason (I hope I'm assuming the worst). Probably he bought it when prices weren't this up, but it's really scary how it changed in 4 months, really scary.
@@nonameexpdng i thing they were never that cheap.
@@FrankValchiria I actually found some F3 on Ebay on sale for 800 or less, unfortunately I didn't have the money at the time but
if I had known that prices would rise as they had I'd have found a way to buy one of those.
@@nonameexpdng 800 was.a.good deal.
I wouldn't be surprised if people watched this video and suddenly decided these cameras were for them. The problem with being a successful RUclipsr is that you may influence people to buy a lot of something and unintentionally jack up the prices. For example, Scotty Kilmer did this when he praised Toyota Celicas and vintage hunting jackets went up a great deal on eBay thanks to Paul Harrell's habit of pulling guns and ammo out of his pockets.
😐Between £2-£9k used in the UK
Extremely disappointing, I was ready to buy one until I looked it up :(
And it's not much different in the USA. No idea how the uploader claims to have purchased this camera for $800. Clickbait I assume.
@@crimebodge7274 A Sony F3 is only usually around 800-1k on ebay.
@@crimebodge7274 www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PMW-F3L-Camcorder-with-4-4-4-RGB-option-CASE-AND-BATTERY-INCLUDED/254780463657?epid=113366523&hash=item3b52195a29:g:SpIAAOSwAu5fswaR found this for 1k easily within 5mins, is this the same camera?
LENS
I have no intention of buying this but still enjoyed the content :)
Omg MD fish!!
Crazy finding you here!!
Would love to see you continue this series. You’ve always set the bar when it comes to thorough tests and informative videos without sacrificing entertainment or interest. 👏🏻
Did not expect to find you here :)
"$800" **includes an additional $200-400 in equipment to make it useable**
Please do the series on these old cinema cameras. This one was so cool
Never in my entire professional career in television and digital video have I ever been asked to deliver a final file in 4K. The standard for delivery is still 1080p and will continue to be for along time. There are some great bargains to be had in old cinema cameras that don't shoot 4K. The C300 Mark 1 for example is an AMAZING camera that you can pick up used from around $1000.
TV isn't the only medium now though (thankfully). And remember, ATSC3 is just around the corner.
I mean Netflix already demands 4k so maybe it's closer than you think
Let's be honest here : almost nobody shooting in 4K actually need to shoot in 4K. Netflix will ask that you deliver in 4K - alright, alright... but that's only because they want to offer 4K streaming.
And no one but a few individual can actually stream 4K... because it takes and in-sa-ne bandwith, a 4K screen, 4K cables, and insane connection stability. Very, very few people have this. The vast majority who "stream in 4K" *think* they stream in 4K, but in fact, they're *not*.
"4K" just became a go-to marketing term that impresses anyone who doesn't know anything about this business. The vast majority of 4K cameras are cheap as hell, and pixel density is the *last thing that matters*. Stream Netflix's Altered Carbon at 540p and you'll get what I'm saying. The dynamic range from the large-format Arri that have been used in this series for the first time is so insane, your eyes forget about the pixels anyway, since this is motion picture... and yes, if I concentrate I can see pixels in 1080p. But it doesn't bother me to have a no more than an ok wifi when I watch Netflix because what matters is the lighting, lens choice, focus-pulling and dynamic range of the camera and nothing more.
The whole "I got a 4K camera and I can bake-in a LUT so I'm a DP now" thing just gets me real fed-up.
@Andres Bonilla Network news may as well film in 240p to hide any truth of this world
obviously never worked for Netflix lol (i take your point though, and the chances of landing a lucrative Netflix deal are very small for us indies, if we're even aiming for that)
I've been using an F3 as my main camera for my RUclips channel for the past 2 years. Most people don't know this, but the sensor actually downscales from 2.5K to give a nice sharp 1080p image. The internal structure of the camera is made of magnesium and the stereo sound with the F3's optional $3,000 (original price) microphone is fantastic. I would highly recommend picking up one of these workhorse cameras for pro work too. I plan on upgrading to an Alexa Classic soon, but the F3 will stay as my B-cam and run and gun setup.
Do you shoot 444 with it? I have one without it and I would love to have the 444 because I have a pix e5 that would get me up to 4444XQ. Is it worth it to sell mine and get one with the upgrade?
@@josuenunez5353 If you can keep the cost to you low I think it is. Incredible image at 4:4:4
your stuff looks great
@@AlexHodgins Thank you!
@@josuenunez5353 Honestly most of the time I just shoot internal for the sake of quick turnaround/ storage. I've found that the difference between the external 10 bit files are a big jump from internal 8 bit, but the 12 bit 444 files aren't a big image jump over the 10 bit.
Just so everyone knows, this camera DOES NOT GO FOR 800 DOLLARS. Try 1.5k to 4k even at times.
Jesse Paton Reminds me Mattias Burling reviews, he always shows cameras claiming he paid like 50% less that the average price everybody else in the world can find them lol
I bought my f3 in 2018 with a full cage for $900. I've seen them go as low as $495. Are you sure you're not looking at cameras that come with lenses?
Yes definitely. I think it's due to this video. Sadly. Gonna have to wait a minute.
goddamn clickbait
I would pay max 500$ for this camera. It's basically not that impressive
Moral of the story: invest in glass NOT cameras 😂 stoked to see more awesome cheap cinema cameras coming up!
In other words date your cameras, marry your lens 😊
@@HankMiner scandalous 😉
Bought a new old stock FS100 (Sony with same sensor as the F5) last year..
Went a bit nuts on (vintage) lenses. But the quality... :0
Ryan Michaels why invest in glass if sony’s slog never grades well?
@@HankMiner Date your gear, marry your skills 😊
You’ve gone too far this time!!! You can’t be “DSLR video shooter” and use cinema cameras. I accepted the mirrorless cameras, but this is a bridge I will not cross.
Just kidding, I thought that this was super interesting. It makes me wonder what overlooked configurations might be out there. It might be cool to do a series focused on finding the best value options at various price points. For instance, (all in) how would this compare to other configurations at the price point?
FILM CAMERA???
Camera culture has the weirdest nerding depth about shit that 99% of people will never even notice.
The guitar community has the same affliction!
Ted Jones “do you hear how fat my neck humbucker sounds right now? Way better than my last Les Paul. Plus this one has coil splitting so it’s basically a strat whenever I want it to be.”
i was waiting for you to make a video about the f3 haha
What camera do you use now?
@@djsalad7891 I believe he uses a BMPCC4K
My budget is somewhere between
0 - 300 - 500
Not sure though bro
0-3-5 man is everywhere
Would love to see some hand-held action outside. Preferably at night.
What is the use case for that?
I mean, other than you being able to score internet points for finding the one thing you could criticize the camera for and therefore feeling vindicated for shelling out 1000s for the latest greatest gear that the RUclips hypetrain sold you. 😉
It’ll prolly suck big time
@@MiaogisTeas or you know, that's how they use cameras and are curious to see how it would perform. Or maybe I'm wrong and everyone is as cynical as you assume.
Stabilization is not good on this cameras. Use Olympus, if you need stabilized footage in 5 axis. But colors and dynamic range is good. This is my todays video from Sony PMW-200, graded: ruclips.net/video/bdy2ldvQEyc/видео.html
@@Wabajak13 That was exactly what I was after. At $800 it's still in the 'starter' range of cameras so an amateur like me craving some special look to the footage would come charging in and create terrible content by using a device that wasn't meant to be used in that way.
Please don't keep making these videos, because after that prices are flying 😭😭
More of this, please. I love the idea and originality around older Cine cameras that can be had for “cheap”.
this is the type of camera customer need to see you with when you are recording an event for them. They think the bigger, the better so they will pay you what you asked them for, unlike if you present your self to an event with the *α6400.* I had got questioned when doing event.
You could set up two cameras and claim the Sony was just a backup...
This is an interesting point.
That's a good point. There are times these cameras can be intimidating and intrusive. But sometimes it can work to your advantage. Try explaining the difference in resolution on that old PD-170 and an iphone and you might get a blank stare. lol
I'd argue it's a better camera for an event, too. Dedicated control buttons, internal NDs and being quite weighty mean for run and gun it is honestly in a league of its own. I shoot on both the F3 snd the A7S and I'd take an F3, barring low light, to an event any day.
i would love to see that series you mentioned. love your channel, you are a youtube legend
You're too kind! Thank you JC!
@@dslrvideoshooter me too but i would like to see more of real footage like shooting in daylight to watch a diffrence in DR or Rollingshutter, anyway great video !
@@pawechekowski9186 Yes! More rolling shutter tests, PLEASE!!!!!!!!
I was/am looking to buy a Sony A7iii. While doing my research, other YT channels were making a good case for the a6500, so I checked it out.
I was almost all in, until they did a rolling shutter test.
Well this video single-handedly increased the price of the F3 over ebay, there were several cameras at $800 now everything is over $1200
Just get a similar camera from the same time period and bob's your uncle.
for 1200 i'd rather get bmpcc 4k, or bmpcc (+metabones)
@@johnhumbug5199 Yes I see, but bread and butter comes from seminars, TV interviews, conventions and local spots which does not required the latest but requires XLRs Zooms and Presence. This camera fills the void quickly.
Who would pay max $1200 for this camera. 1080p is become obsolete now, most TVs and monitors are at leat 2K even smaryphones. Try to watch a 1080p video on a 4k tv. It may be worth $800 if the colors and dynamic range were out of this world at 1080p, but from the look of it, the image quality is pretty average and the low light capabilities are pretty bad. That's a big turn down.
@@astafzciba 1080p is essentially the same as 2k
Wait! Your a “Blake’s 7” fan?!?!
You’ve gone up in my estimation considerably. :)
CONGRATS ON 500K! YOU HAVE HELPED ALOT OF US PLAYBUTTON HOLDERS
This SONY F3 is a testament to great SUPER 35 engineering. I learned on a similar ENG camera (EX-1) and realized these cameras set a better standard (2K/1920/1080) for the modern era of image quality, by keeping things stable. 4K/8K just allow better high dynamic range capture -- but 2K keeps everything very efficient. Ideally, we have more tools than we actually need, due to excessive industry competition. Good video dude! 🎥🤔
I bought this camera when it was released 10 years ago along with a set of Angenieux Optimo DP zooms, 16-42 & 30-80. It replaced my Sony F900 and Canon Cine B4 mount lenses. The F3/Angenieux combination was used for many local commercials and corporate videos. At that time I was also an early adapter of off board recording. I paired the F3 with a Cinedeck recorder. Something 10 years ago was unheard of on professional productions. They didn’t understand that I was giving them 10bit 4:4:4 RGB in Prores. Something at that time was only possible on a $125,000.00 Panasonic D5 deck and no Prores. Today no one bats an eye at an off board recorder but then no one understood what an awesome product I was delivering by doing it that way. Sony made a wired remote “paintbox” that gave me control of all the menu functions of the camera. I would actually “paint” the look with the DP and burned it in for delivery, no post color correction was done to the footage. The F3 and the lenses are still in my inventory. The camera doesn’t get used any longer but the lenses do. There’s something to be said for investing in good glass instead of cameras I guess.
No baloney Sony. Good stuff. Enjoyed your video. Being from Detroit I can’t help but leave you with a line from a Bob Seger song “I thought to myself...shit I’ve known that for 10 years!”
The comparison is kind of pointless. I mean you put an external recorder on the cinema camera. And it is well known, that to get the most out of a sony mirrorless camera you don't shoot in slog 2.
Slog 2 flattens the picture so much and uses so little of the 8 bit color space that as soon as you stretch the image out again through luts, the limits of 8 bit become visible.
This is less a comparison of cameras and more a comparison of 8bit vs 10bit and different color profiles
"And it is well known" where did you get the info from? and which format would you prefere?
@@Max27653
Cine2 is a very popular profile that is not as flat but still retains great dynamic range. (And as a bonus you have a way lower minimum iso then with slog 2 or 3)
And it is well know by everybody who understand the limitations of 8bit and has in depth knowledge of the sony system. This video goes into depth about the different profiles, it is worth a watch and you will understand, why slog2 or 3 is not the ideal profile for sonys consumer mirrorless cameras, that only have 8bit color depth.
ruclips.net/video/9E8doNzDymo/видео.html
@@jakob.k_design What's your thoughts on PP4? All I know is that the overheating issues are bad on any camera from the a-series except (maybe) the a6600 which is a dealbreaker in itself. Doing an interview and telling people to hold that thought for 10 min while the camera has a snooze is a content disturbing disaster. Missing the ring part of a wedding etc. And shooting a doc where you can run the camera continuously covering an event, just to have the camera shutdown at the crucial moment of the scene nixes any colour conversation. F3 blows the 6400 out of the water in that regard - it's a tank and flawless in that regard. The a6600 is only camera worth buying in that series, AND only - in my case - because of the tiny form factor for incognito shooting where you do not want a ton of attention to get cinema-veritie direct cinema content. When content is key in low-profile situations, the low-light capable 6400 with its subpar 8bit 4.2.0 low data rate is what you want, and here slight magenta infused grays or other non-perfect visual aesthetics are not a large concern. And you can use Caleb's advice on how to help with that in his useful Sony colour issues vid. We need to think more about what we are going to use a particular camera for and what genre. Clearly, the A7S iii is the way to go but if budget is a consideration, for indies, you can get the a6600 at less than half the price (with an on-camera Beachtek mini-mixer). As far as colour, where form factor means nothing and you are not delivering on 4K, the F3 is by far the superior camera in RGB 444 Slog-1 mode to an external recorder - it's very Alexa like with skin-tones, creamy roll-off, and lovely colour science. What I would be interested in knowing is that if anyone has tried to up-res 444 from the F3 to 2 or 4K, shooting with sharp lenses; as I suspect the images would be unique from the pack and likely more film-analog like. Thanks Caleb for inspiring richer conversations to happen without the tech focus being the holy grail.
It's basically a c100 mark Ii but Sony! Really cool camera, but I can't find it for 800 now, only about 1500. I think this video moved the market a bit! 😅
Great video.
Hello I love your tech videos you the best
I would to see you do a video on a Sony HDW Series camera which are part of Sony's CineAlta range but were produced in 1994, 26 years ago. They were some of the first HD camera's made and in my opinion still hold up today with custom gammas implemented which is incredible.
What a great review on this camera! I wouldn't be surprised if they sell like hot cakes on eBay as a result of this. One thing I should point out that I don't think was mentioned that is pretty important to know about this camera,... There was an update firmware option would allow you to shoot this camera at 444 off the sensor. It wasn't a RAW image, you would ideally use the ProRes HQ Wrapper and Codec, however, it is 444. I do know that back in the day, that is how many of the larger commercial houses used this camera. Another note, this camera was used as a B-Camera to the famous Sony F5 and F55 all the time. Credits all over the place for that. And one last thing, my true inspiration behind this camera came from one shooter who used this camera like it was an extension of his body and he is Zach Zamboni. He was the director of photography and primary shooter on the Anthony Bourdain show. I don't know about you, but I used to love the watching these shows. I couldn't get over the low light, rich color, and dynamic range I was witnessing in the show. Come to find out later that Zach shot everything on SXS cards, So, it was all the internal 420 8bit codec. You got to hand it to the editor and colorist on that show, because that footage looked Amazing. He did however, use a Fuji 19-90mm Cabrio T2.9 which I think at the time was about $40K.
Finishing up a feature I shot with two Panasonic AF100. Paid $1200 total for both ($5k retail in 2011). Some pretty damned good images, and if I wasn't such a sucky cinematographer, they'd be great :-)
Edit: Sorry guys, the offer for footage was to Caleb specifically. That said, I'll see if I can find some of my old stuff and post before/after grading to my channel.
.
Logged in and was surprised to see my old workhorse being featured! A couple thoughts:
1) Recording internally I was competing against smaller DSLRs of the time that were far more agile. Recording externally, I was competing with RED. The name brand (clients thought it was best), and eventually the resolution increase.
2) If you really want to unlock the full range of the F3's colour, grab yourself a 4:4:4 recorder, use dual-SDI output, and watch your jaw hit the floor. If you want a couple files, let me know and I'll try digging them out of the archives.
I'd like to get some 444 footage by F3.
hey, id love to see some of the footage you got! Would you put it on your channel or send it to me!!! Thinking of my future B Cam beside my original bmpcc that has similar qualities
He would need to have the paid RGB444 upgrade though, right?
@@ErebosGR tbh I've found more RGB444-upgraded F3s for sale than non-upgraded ones haha (your mileage may vary though)
Please dude, give us some footage. That would be awesome to see.
I've been using this camera for the last year as my introduction into owning my own 'big' camera. I've loved it. The colour, ease of grading slog1 and dynamic range is great. It just has a really nice look. Also, the 8bit 4:2:0 straight out of camera is awesome for most stuff, I ended up rarely using my external recorder. I thank my mentor time and time again for directing me towards a big practical beautiful camera rather than the new, impractical, hot kid on the block (BMPC) - he said "do you want to learn how to use a camera? Or just have nice specs". Beautiful image, practical camera, ease of grade trumps small form factor camera with 4k any day.... unless you're shooting for Netflix or the likes of course!
LOVE this kind of content! Really gives a good perspective on gear and how/what to buy. You should TOTALLY do one on the BlackMagic Cinema Camera (BMCC) 2.5K (the grey bricks)!!
You should have bought Sony fs700r: 4k 60fps/120fps/ 1080p 240fps 10bit 422 or DNG 12bit 444 RAW when connected to Atomos Shogun 4k Inferno. The price between F3 and FS700R is only several hundred dollars difference when buying used.
Heck, I still use a Canon HV30 for killer cinematic shots. Having new tech is great, but the old is magical as well.
Yes
The green and magenta banding can be "fixed" by increasing the saturation while recording then reducing before grading. I've been doing it for over a year and I haven't noticed and gamut clipping so it's definitely worth it. (Also fixes the blotchy skin tones)
thx for the tip
FINALLY someone to make a series about older cinema cameras and comparing them to newer ones! Cannot wait for the future reviews! Keep up the good work!!!
Whats wild is that the used price for the F3 has shot up to $1500. You're video/inflation probably helped raise the used stock. I want one now lol
I would love it if you profiled the AJA Cion. Such a promising camera that got trounced because of Blackmagic announcing the Ursa Mini at half the cost. You can find them used for around $1200-$1500 now. So many negative quirks (lied about their dynamic range, no true LOG profile), but also so many positive features (wide range of codecs, global shutter, and output of 4K RAW to Atomos). For the price it was at when it came out it just wasn't good enough to compete with Blackmagic, but I wonder how good it is now that it's around the same price as a used C100 MKI
I Shot a feature film off of the Cion for free through their #TryCion Program. Needless to say, I was IMPRESSED with the Camera and the things we could do with it. We actually SAVE a bunch of shots with that Camera. Here's the trailer for it - ruclips.net/video/rvwro1BVo9g/видео.html
@@crosbyt123ify I wanted to take advantage of that so bad when it came out but I simply did not have the time or anything in mind to shoot with it. It's a shame, I feel like they could've evolved it a bit and made something better. When they announced it I remember it kind of shook the industry, and then Blackmagic showed up and everyone was just writing it off as a failure before it even came out.
@@crosbyt123ify Highlights are awful clipped. Looks pretty terrible imo.
@@Max-lk2ro It's all good. We didn't have a lot of money to purchase monitors and things like that. We shot this with whatever we had and days we had to made a feature film out of it. But I appreciate your comments and honestly. It means a lot.
CION's are still avail through Resellers via AJA at deep deep discounts, new in box.
Would love to see the Sony Fs700/100, Panasonic AF100, and Canon C100 Mk1 compared to some modern DSLR/Mirrorless cameras
is the thought that the image and colour processing/sensor in general are "softer/warmer" or more cinematic which is more "traditionally" pleasing to the eye that makes the cinema cams so much better in your opinion? As opposed to the coldness of the newer sharper cameras? I don't know much about these things, but it seems like the people that do, like you, always lean towards cameras that have that softer/warmer side that is seemingly missing from the the more cold colour rigid digital sharpness that new cameras
This is particularly a Sony issue. The newer Canon cameras all have the warmer, more pleasing skin tone and overall warmer and more saturated colors. The highlights on this particular camera are really beautiful. The image is really comparable to the original black magic pocket. Softer and more filmic looking than the newer models.
Very interesting. Very well done the editing. Clean voice. Thanks a lot!
These cameras have always been "nicer to work with than the stinking mirrorless cameras which just look terrible". RUclipsrs like you decided for yourselves that DSLR and mirrorless were superior. Please don't start a series on Cine, ENG or camcorders; that'll just be rude MR DSLR Video Shooter.
You are mistaken about the lack of 1080/60p. The models that have the 444 upgrade can output 1080/60p with a single SDI to the cheap Black Magic Video Assist. Your model can output 60p at 1080, you just need a recorder than can accept dual band SDI. (Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q)
I love the idea of filmmakers having access to cameras like this. Technology is no longer an excuse. Talent wins.
they aren't $800 anymore :(
Please do a series on these old cinema cameras. Canon C100 vs. Rebels or xxD cameras.
That is no contest. I have 2 x c100 and it kicks butt even against my EOSR
@@paddy_cakes C100 mark I or II? I need one for weddings as my tripod camera. To replace my Mark IV.
ill take that any day
This is a great idea
Hey Caleb, there is a typo in the description: Sony PWM F3 instead of *Sony PMW F3*
This old camera series will be great!!!
This is one of the most entertaining videos I've seen on RUclips in awhile. I love old technology, and I'm still blown away at how good it really is. We often forget how perfect it was when it came out. New technology sometimes shortens our memory. I look forward to checking out more of your videos. Kudos, sir.
Great, all the F3 cameras I had on my watch list are sold out...
gave up my fs100, now I have gh4 and I am not going back. it was the same price. actually the gh4 used was 650. have fun
I bought a new old stock FS100 last year. I love that thing to bits!
We are talking PMW F3 not FS100 they are way different
You let the secret out of the bag! Been shooting a F3 for the last 4 months for all the reasons you state. Rock solid image and built in ND's. Also throw the footage in a ACES timeline and the footage really sings :)
I owned this camera for about four years and put about 3,500 hours on it. I kick myself now when I put that footage through Resolve Color Management and see the full potential of the sensor! My old footage never looked this good!
We got the used FS700 (with the 4K upgrade) and Atomos Shogun combo happening the past year and it's been awesome. Worked well with the existing FS7 and tag teamed probably 30+ productions, mostly construction / manufacturing showcases and the slomo was used to great effect. Paid for itself within a month or so. Thanks for the showcase on the F3. Now eyeing a used F3 as a studiocam.
the mounts on these old 32 mm CMOS is not the best solution, if you can, use original please !
As of Sept 2020... the cheapest price for this camera on eBay is approx $2500 - not sure where this guy found it for $800? Very misleading title...
I would say he needs to change the title. He ruined the prices of the Sony F3. This camera didn't sell for 2500$ since like 2015. Besides, you still need an expensive recorder to go along since the internal codec is only 8 bit 4:2:0 at a very low bit rate. Which is abysmal for editing and color grading. I never thought I would see the fs700 as a better bargain than this camera now. The fs700 was usually double the price of the Sony F3.
@@josuenunez5353 I would just say: PLEASE let me know where I can find this (working) camera for $800 right now? Definitely not on eBay.
Rock And Roll Kitchen unfortunately it’s going to take a while for this camera to drop again. Maybe not too long because of all the new cameras coming out.
I found a Way to fix the problem with the Slog 2. the color shifting is not happening since then.
make a video!
Hi can you share? I’m struggling to get s-log luts for postproduction
Thanks!
@@joerivandenberghe7193 yes for sure my friend. Hit me up on instagram @aifotos.
YES! I Have owned this beautiful thing for years and shot hundreds of high profile projects on it. People are always asking if I used the Alexa, and are gobsmacked when I tell them about the little F3.
Above everything, the image quality and colour science is just so pleasing with the S LOG. It's unreal. It's also so well designed, economical on space, and tough. Get one!
You touched my heart, I mostly prefer opting to buy a premium pro camera that others consider outdated. These pro models are trustworthy to last. They seem outdated, lest we forget that they were star performers when released.
Have you considered taking a look at the F5? It's around the same price now and looks promising.
If anyone wants to see this camera in action, my two short films Time Oddity and Checkmate were filmed on this camera. Time Oddity was also nominated for cinematography in a film festival.
Absolutely fantastic video! I just picked up an F3 myself and have been having all sorts of fun playing with the settings. The only issue i'm having is with measuring correct exposure in SLOG. Could you recommend a good setting for zebras (measuring according to skin tones)? Any help would be so so appreciated!
Please do more on fs700r~~
I'd love to see that as well
Yes please its the only camera ive kept. Still great Picture. There still are many thousands of them out in the wild.
I use a 10 year old Canon C100 mark I. Love it!
Wow. $800. Amazing. 👍
Not anymore. Now theyre like 2,000$ on ebay lol
Interesting video. Loved it, hope you will do Sony fs700 r too with it’s prores raw capabilities
Seems like a waste of time & money with all the extra ad ons needed for 10 year old camera ...
Agreed. External recorder + sd adapters + lens adapters for only 1080p 24fps 🤷♂️
Could you please check out the Panasonic mini DV cameras i am especially interested in the Panasonic AJ hdx900
I love this. As a total beginner trying to get into filmmaking as a hobby, knowing what older but affordable cinema cameras are still worth buying is invaluable information. Please move forward with this series.
Also I’ve seen your Chinon Cinema Lens Set Video and I was wondering if you have any plans on doing another series on affordable cinema lenses, or photo lenses that work for cinema lenses.
*Was* affordable. Now that tens of thousands of aspiring filmmakers have seen this video... maybe not so much 🤣
don't even think about getting this one, really. any modern mirrorless camera beats it in many ways Caleb doesn't mention: weight, autofocus, lenses, compatibility etc.
@gxrsky, did you and I watch the same video? He specifically mentioned autofocus shortcomings and lens compatibility with adapters.
Caleb: @7:20 you mention the ‘proper’ sony luts, where might one find those ? I have been struggling with color correction and then grading my footage off my a6400 (thanks for the suggestion by the way) and it drives me effing batty. GRRRR. If there are Sony Luts for the a6400 that would just about make my day!!!!
Color space transforms for SLOG 1, 2, and 3 (and LUTs for 2 and 3) are available in Resolve straight out of the box.
For better accuracy, go with the Leeming LUT over the generic Sony ones. I use the a6600 and the Cine 2 LUT is very good. S-LOG on 8-bit cameras is not recommended.
This camera was used to shoot the award winning film “ Safety Not Guaranteed”.
They also didn't even use S-LOG. Shot with a low contrast baked in profile in 12 bit.
Great points are sprinkled throughout this review. I suggest doing the same with a Sony CineAlta F35. That beast of the camera can outshine any xxK camera today. Although F35 is crippled to 1080p the final output beautiful renders to cinema35mm projection celluloid with perfect roll-offs in highlights and shadows and 4K copies are often better than most " claimed native 4k " modern cameras. After shooting Cinema worthy scenes on F35 and color numbering and grading them on a pro system by a pro colorist you will never consider any other camera " Pro Cinema Camera " with the exception of Arri Alexa family of cameras. And shooting on it is simply a joy as it is fully cinema level functional with minimalist rigging and accessorizing. Looking forward to get your opinion
I recently sold my F35 for around $3,500. Considering it was $250,000 back in 2008, it's an amazing value these days for the image alone. Just don't expect to have fun with it as a one-man-band! Extremely big and heavy. But miles ahead of something like a C100 for 1080p.
As you've had experience with the F35, what would you think of the Sony CineAlta Venice and the Sony CineAlta Venice 2, now? What do you think? If you see this, I would appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
*tl;dr: only the SDI A/B ports can output 10-bit 4:2:2, also you can record 1080p60 externally (with the RGB444 upgrade).*
Are you plugging your SDI into the SDI A port? The SDI out and HDMI ports are limited to 8-bit 4:2:0 output, only the SDI A and B ports can output 10-bit 4:2:2 (up to 30p normally, up to 60p with the RGB444 upgrade) and 4:4:4 (with RGB444 upgrade).
I think it's also worth mentioning the differences between the firmware upgrade and the RGB444 upgrade.
- The firmware upgrade adds the SLog picture profile via a software update and can be applied to any F3.
- The "paid" RGB444 upgrade gives you 3G SDI via SDI A and B ports (so you can get 4:2:2 1080p60 through a single port or 4:4:4 1080p60 through two dual-link ports, not 100% sure about that second one), and obviously gives you 4:4:4 output.
It also gives you a slightly different SLog compared to the firmware upgrade (firmware upgrade version of SLog still works concurrently). It's pretty common to find RGB444 pre-installed for the same price or a little more.
So you *can* get 1080p60 out of the F3 through a single SDI cable as long as you get one with the RGB444 upgrade. I've personally got one kitted out with Element Technica Armour and a Blackmagic Video Assist (cheapest monitor/recorder for 1080p60 4:2:2 I think).
Without the RGB444 upgrade, I believe you can still get 1.5G dual link (rather than 3G dual link), so you could dual-link two 1080i60 fields to get 1080p60. But that would involve a rather pricey dual-link recorder which is pretty counter-intuitive.
This is spot on👍
@@DanielTroyer Cheers Daniel, your videos were actually what reminded me of the F3's existence, so I picked one up for myself earlier this year!
I paid 450 CAD for my FS700 with 18-200 lens. amazing deal. only 60 hours on the body
After used a Canon 7D DSLR，i never thought about use a video camera again。
Why?
@@Seslikitap_Ebook The low light performance and depth of field were insane compared to cameras at comparable price points 10 years ago.
Thanks for using it. I designed the electric circuit and image quality adjustment of this camera. I was surprised at the low noise and good sensitivity of the image sensor.
I'm gonna start a channel called "it's old but still work" showing old but still usefull tech.
Dooo iiittt ! Subbed to your current channel as a reminder to myself.
I mean, honestly, the way ai upscalling has been going, 1080 is so much info for that
I've actually been looking at these used on eBay, been considering getting a camera like it. Torn between Sony and Panasonic offerings. This was exactly the type of video I wanted to see.
I would love to see a video on one of the Panasonic camcorders with interchangeable lenses.
I still use Panasonic's AF100 with Atmos Ninja and footage looks good. Just shoot for your look and do minimal grading. The features for usability rocks. I studied Cinematography in Film School so I approach it from an artistic foundation.
I'm also a fan of Panasonic cameras, would love to see a similar profile on one of those.
Where can I get it $800
Thanks Caleb, interesting & valuable video. The problems arise if something goes wrong with an older camera. Repairs are very expensive - if you can find someone to do them. A slight bit of rust or even dust on a gear can cause your camera to be useless. Older cameras are more prone to this and if it happens you've just lost $800.
When I went to Film School, this was the "BIG" digital cinema camera our department invested in. I think we paid $16k and traded some stuff to get it used. We paired it mostly with old cine-modded Nikon glass. We loved the image quality on it, but we had to record externally to a Ki Pro external recorder to get the upgraded 10-Bit 4:4:4, and I remember that seeming like a big hassle at the time. By the time we got it, Magic Lantern RAW and the on-sale $500 BMPCC became the de facto choice for us.
In 2001 school i went to was using Super 8mm and Krasnogs16mm. We were splicing film by hand. Times have changed. Kids are lucky now.
this equals to 6400 turkish lira actually. But you can't find it less then 100k. wtf
I passed up the opportunity to buy an older cinema camera last year. The price seemed good but I wasn't sure how it would stack up to what audiences are used to seeing today. I probably don't shoot enough video to justify purchasing more cameras, though, so it's probably for the best :P
Better to use bmpcc (original) or BM Micro Cinema. I'm still using it. CDNG internaly.
I have a feeling that after this review, the price of these used cameras will double lol. Hope I'm wrong. Seems like an awesome buy. If I hadn't already invested in the BMPCC 4K and all the accessories, I'd probably have gone down this road.
It has flip screen. What a vlog camera 😂😂
There's a French saying that goes : in the old jars, you simmer the best soups.
For anyone wondering how it will hold up on indie features or series, this is one example we shot with this F3 Cine but outputting to KiPro recorder. ruclips.net/video/JBz-hQuG03o/видео.html
I'll stick w/ my a6400, never had any of the issues you show. Cheers.
i, as a panasonic guy, would really lovr to see the AF100/AF101
in modern day standards, it doesn't seem all that special, but with the right glass i've seen it work wonders
and of course the Af-100 destroys the F3.. * :)
And with external recording!
I literally use a 20 something year old used cinema camera. And you are referring to *that* as old
I'm watching this like I know exactly what he's talking about
Do review on FS700R it retails for about the same price and It's also Made like a Cinealta Brand with SLOG2 and 4K out
Where can I find this camera for around $800.00
Noooooooooooooo..... I don't want him talking about it, that will push the price up on them!! :-o Want to pick up a 2nd F3 myself one day ;-)
I hope you go over the FS700R next! Great vid.
what about rolling shutter?
This is great! Yes, more please. Looking forward to the FS700R video!
I used to own one, can confirm this is a great affordable camera. Super sharp 1080P quality.
Hi. New hugger here ☺️👍 I know this is an Outdated model, but can you give a video tips about Pentax k50 on how to get great vlog videos with it. Thanks so much
Compare 6:27 and 6:55. They both say a6400, internal HD, but the second, s-log-2 version looks like it has much higher resolution. What's going on here, is this a labeling mistake?
👍🎥💃