J Thorsson what’s so pussified about not wanting to live the rest of you life hooked to a machine in a wheel chair sipping all of your meals from a straw?
J thorsson I wonder how you would feel if you were a F1 driver and knowing that everytime you go to a grand prix there is a chance that you won't see the following day forever.
It takes balls to apologies for a mistake. Brave action. Having seen my hero die live (Senna) and knowing that a halo with a steel wire secured wheel would have probably saved him I prefer to get used to to the damn thing rather go through the same horrifying images again. Maybe a dynamic deployable system can be developed so that it is hidden from view when racing and deploy itself once the system recognizes that an accident is bound to take place. Lets see. The fact is that FIA is not your local "bob the builder" but they have scientists working on that shit. These people have a rather high combined IQ ...if they say thats the best solution we got they know what they are talking about.....
I can't see how the Massa one is positive I would say Negative as the Halo could deflect the spring downward into the chest area which would kill a drive instantly
DDS029 how so? a glance at speed would not have the titanium and carbon fibre doing there job properly, very different to how it would react to a full hit
I couldn't care less whether the halo will be on the cars or not, I'm here for the racing. That McLaren livery looked aggressive af actually. People just love to whine and that's the end of that, oh and not to say, many that complain probably don't even watch F1 seriously/regularly and they still whine. Disgusting imo.
That's true, it is an ugly solution, but driver safety is *always* more important than aesthetics. The classic open cockpit definitely looks better, but I think we'll get used to the halo soon enough, and eventually stop noticing it.
Seriously whoever thinks that the halo is a bad idea, doesn't know how dangerous F1 actually is. And honestly I think that the halo really looks pretty sick.
I can live with the Halo as long as it won't have any impact on either lap times or the quality of racing. Obviously, I'd rather keep things the way they are, but I've already gotten used to seeing it on the cars, so I won't mind too much as long as the two things mentioned above won't be affected. Hopefully, in the long-term, they'd resort to either the Shield or the Aeroscreen as they look more fitting on the cars.
Since it is an integeral part of the car, or at least is going to be, I suppose it could make the cars even quicker. Being a very small margin ofcourse, if at all.
+X Million The reason I was initially a bit pessimistic about these two aspects is because I thought that the Halo would impair visibility so much that the drivers would have to slow down at high-speed corners, for example, which of course, would automatically lead to a slower lap time, but since then my pessimism has vanished fortunately. The same reason (reduced visibility) was more or less my initial concern regarding the 'quality of racing' aspect as well.
F-16s don't encounter many walls or tires. Aircraft canopies are rated for a 4 pound bird at 350mph though that's not guaranteed (first pic is f-16 cracked by bird en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike). In 2014 they grounded 80 F-16s for cracks (though long-term UV was major culprit). The plastic is 1 inch thick, imagine the weight! A bird is not very dense, a bolt at 100mph would probably work well to shatter it, a tire would certainly be unfortunate. Do google image search for "Damaged canopy due to a bird strike" and let me know if you feel safe. Another big issue is hypoxia or fumes being in enclosed F1 car canopy. Cockpit would require sealing so no fumes, probably an oxygen tank & mask for emergencies, the hinging hardware and structural support to hold that massive canopy on and allow it to be opened. Designs like Brawn's super Red Bull racer that has enclosed wheels and a canopy are designed with support in mind and haven't been built so we don't know the actual weight. LMP1 cars have 100 kg more minimum weight than F1.
@MAADUECE - No, I haven't, do tell. And what have they survived? collisions with cranes and heavy equipment? flying tires and bolts and other mechanical debris? Stress force is psi related so rolling on flat pavement wouldn't have same stress as a 200 mph bolt or forklift blade.
If the major reason for not choosing the aero screen was because of the crash test, then i hope they find a solution to that problem and replace the halo for '19
One last thing and I'm done. The thing with the tire test is that all three, in a way, succeeded. The Halo just didn't have a few cracks, but all 3 did what they were designed to do.
Safety isn't most important. The attraction of high speed racing is risk. Taking away all the risk takes away the excitement. We are not wrapping MMA fighters in bubblewrap either.
Such a tough call. Death and injury is as much a part of F1 as open wheel and innovation. But then again, safety has also been a major part of F1 history. I think it'll save lives and the first driver saved will be make everyone sit back and take a deep breath.
Nanderlizer Nanderlizer F1 is too safe now? Well then, how about we make criminals who got sentenced to death become F1 drivers? Have them drive modern F1 cars but without any safety devices installed, no helmets or fireresistent suits, no seatbelts etc. and let them race to win the championship. Many will die for sure in some very nasty crashes, bones broken, heads squished or decapitated, bodies crippled into a pile of pop, but at the end the one lucky bastard that indeed does win the WDC gets a ticket back into freedom. Sounds familiar somehow..... oh wait, 'Gamer' the movie with the guy from '300'.
If safety is absolutely paramount then one either has to dramatically reduce the speed of the cars, or take the driver out of the car. In this day and age there is no technological need to have a driver in the car, or even have a car at all considering the current simulators.
I find it quite inconsiderate of some people that they care more about the looks of the car and that "motorsport is supposed to be dangerous" than the safety of the drivers. I definitely understand the complaints, but surely you cannot argue against the FIA caring for the safety of their drivers. I don't like the look of the halo either, I think it looks terrible, but the sport won't change. It will still be the same drivers, driving the same cars, driving around the same tracks. So I don't see how the halo can change your opinion of the sport.
I actually have to agree with you on one point. Safety is number one and the halo indeed won't change how drivers race. And in fact the excitement doesn't come from danger, but from the fact that there's tension. However, I disagree with halo not due to making it safer, but because f1 is already safe enough. Yes, there are cars flying around. But the shape of an f1 car already makes it pretty hard to actually hit the driver's head. From behind it's next to impossible, head on it's completely impossible, because you'll be safely hidden under the front wing. And if the car is slightly sideways, then the front wing and car shape will divert it from your head. So, how many of these close calls have actually been close calls? How many of these accidents really were dangerous? The answer is simple... Way less than you think. Most of them look dangerous, but in reality the danger of dying from the impact force or being hit by debris is much, much higher than from being ran over by a car. The only really scary thing would be if the car that runs over you caught on fire, but a halo won't protect you from that. In fact it may make it worse. It is like when NHL leads these discussions about fighting. Many people want to ban fighting, because it's life threatening. However, fighting is what makes the sport humble. And there's a much greater risk to die from a dirty hit than from a fight. In fact as it stands, there has been only one death and a minimal amount of players not being able to play anymore in connection with fighting. On the international level it's much more watched though. And I still remember IIHF 2015 I think it was? Our country hosted the cup. And it was insane. We against Belarus was something that turned so violent, because Belarusian players were dirty. If someone could punch them in the face, it'd be much safer. But this way our team had two injured players and many angered fans despite overrunning them in the scoreboard. In both cases the risks are exaggerated. And that's why I support fights in NHL and no halo in F1.
Wrong, problem with your opinion is that you cannot draw a line anywhere. So why not stop human drivers driving F1? I assure you that's even safer for the drivers 😂
my only concern is on the onboard cameras, whats the angle going to be and all that cus the current angle looks pretty good and i hope they arent just going to use shoulder cam
One of the problems with it is that its going to be a standard part rather than something designed by the teams. When they introduced the high sided cockpit protection most of the cars looked totally awful, especially the bathtub Ferrari, but Mclaren came up with a really cool looking solution that really integrated with the design of the car. What the FIA should do is what they do with every other crash structure and just tell the teams "this is the area that you can put the device and this is the crash test it has to withstand" and then see what the teams come up with.
Thanks for re-considering the Halo, although it may look a little ugly, it is a driver-endorsed product, brought to the FiA by drivers and shows that driver safety is paramount. Excellent video, bravo!
from the pictures towards the end, it looks like the halo may obstruct partial view in the wing mirrors, with that in mind and assuming that all parts of the car are built to balance air flow, moving them might be a costly side effect.
Give it a few races into the season or maybe even a full season and they'll be streamlined in and looking good while keeping people safe. When carbon fiber gets to bashing about and whole chassis fly through the air I always watch for the little nugget in the center to stay safe. Most times they do, sometimes they don't. This will help that. Good things. Big of you to drop a new opinion on your previous. We all agree they're VERY ugly as they stand today haha. Good vid.
Like many other people I hated the looks of it at first, but after these infos I'm really intrigued of what could be possible. Maybe they are able to implement the halo structue in a way that it follows the design lines of the car (slope of nose cone, smooth connection to airbox structure) and shape the bar so that it even creates downforce. Combined with a nice paint job I honestly have to say that it could even be a good looking part. Let's wait and see! :)
There needs to be 2 flashing light boxes now because of that center pillar. If there is only one it can easily be obstructed by the pillar but if there is two then the pillar can't block both. Alternately 1 long and thin futuristic looking OLED light bar like what is in new BMWs and Audis tail lights, maybe across the spoiler. I'm sure the designers can find a good way to integrate those sexy OLED slivers into F1 cars. That would be awesome and improve safety.
Hm fair enough. FIA seem to do their homework after all. However: The device that would've saved Surtees would've been wheeltethers and are already implemented in f1. I don't think I've ever seen a wheel come off after those were introduced. Regarding Wilson's crash: Indycars have to work on saftey in general. Those cars break apart so easily compared to f1 cars, the crashes are not representative to F1. Same with GP2. Also: In any kind of Motorcycle racing the rider is even more exposed. There is no crash structure whatsoever and the inherent risk of that is considered part of the sport. F1 always involved risk. That's what distinguishes a racing driver from a soccer player and makes them true heroes!
While that may be true in total numbers, it is not true if you look at the percentages. How many F1 drivers are there compared to soccer playing kids? exactly...
Obstsalat95 nah, f1 has developed many safety features that make it a lot safer that it used to be. Playing soccer, football, wrestling, or any other contact sport has a higher risk than certain motor sports
There's literally been 1 accident in the past ten years in f1 where a driver got injured because of an object hitting them, and the halo probably wouldn't have even prevented that
TheBrass18 if the impact wasn't enough to injure the driver without the halo, then there is no point of the halo because no one would have been injured in the first place
I look at it like this. Yes it is ugly looking on the cars... BUT i never want to witness losing another highly talented driver ever again, Jules's death left me heartbroken and numb for so long, the kid was a future champion. Probably would have been touch and go as to whether the halo would have saved him considering the accident but the findings don't lie. Personally after seeing this video, even though it looks so out of place on the cars, i do feel a lot more at ease knowing that Max Verstappen and Sebastian Vettel (favourite drivers) are that much safer. Thank you
I think combination of Halo and Indicar Protector will be great, as the protector glass in indicar will help for small particles running at 200mph speed that Halo won't be able to sustain the impact of those small particles from car breakage
In my opinion, whether or not they are in an open cockpit should be irrelevant. We watch racing for driver skill. Yes risk is part of racing, but there's no reason to have the drivers head dangling out of the car like a cheap 90s antenna. Peoples lives hang in the balance. And if being without the halo is worth more to you then a human life, maybe you shouldn't be watching racing in the first place.
I think they MUST center the camera placement next year, because when it is mounted slightly to the left as it is now, it makes the Halo look even uglier. If the camera is centered, at least stuff will be symmetrical. Hopefully they come up with an overall better looking solution though.
When I first saw the halo I though it was weird and I wasn’t sure if I liked it. Honestly I don’t even think about it anymore. And actually I’m starting to like it, and I’m surprised no team has used it as almost a second wing in some way. Unless their not allowed to put aerodynamic elements on them.
Drivers are paid for danger and we should have danger, no seatbelts no helmets no Fire prof reacing gear. It should be dangerous. The race sould be to survive not come first. We’ll have to charge drivers every race because everyone is dead Hope you se the sarcams...........
After seeing those accidents of cars catapulting into the air and over each other, I support the idea. Sure it doesn't look great now but we'l get used to it.
Its not that it will stop the cars from potentially going airbourne, but that it will help protect the drivers heads from other cars flying over them or from colliding with barriers when they flip over. Looking back at those clips for instance the Alonso and Grosjean crash, I cringe at how much worse the outcome could've been.
Josiah Sinclair let's say the car hits the halo side on. Lots of debris is going to go through the halo and still hit the driver in the head regardless of whether the halo is there or not
Well I'm judging it by the FIA testing that looked at the various incidences of this happeneing and concluded that in all but one of the crashes (The Schumacher crash) of car -to-car contact the halo would have had a positive impact.
Have you ever heard about motorcycle racing? Motogp? Isle of Man TT? This discussion is ridiculous! If F1 cars must have rollcages to be safe, motogp and all forms of motorcycle racing must de banned! What's wrong with people nowadays?
FIA is banking on the assumption that fans will tolerate the halo. They could cut the engine power by half and save a lot of incidents that way as well, but fans wouldn't tolerate it. If fans tolerate the halo then that's all that matters really. I've got a terrible feeling that I'm going to tolerate it and watch F1 anyway. Whereas if they cut the engine power by half I definitely 100% would not keep watching it.
Take it from me, bike racers are a whole different animal and they are fully aware of all the risks but the feeling of 200mph on a bike is night and day different to 200mph in any form of car. I agree that the dangers of bike racing are insane by comparison but you'd have literally no chance of imposing any restrictive safety devices on a rider.
want to know why your comment doesn't belong here? i'll tell you: when did you last see a f1 pilot leaving the car and roll on the ground to slow down like they do in bike races? racing is dangerous, always, but F1 (or any car race for that matter) and bike racing are 2 whole different things, like a boat and an airplane... do you make a boat that has oxygen masks or a plane with self-sealing compartments?
LOL Every time I hear about the plexi screen being rejected due to Seb's dizziness, I keep feeling there's a joke there, but I can't quite come up with it.
Proud of you owning up. In January 2017 Autosport did analysis (bit.ly/halo-alonso) and I was convinced. Love that you pointed out noses because people said "it will ruin the sport" etc and now have forgotten it. Comments here already milder. Move on, y'all, and hate the next thing, there will be plenty of opportunities to repeat the same unverified phrases back at each other so they sound true. A real thing I think is unaddressed is tire failure; it affects safety and race results way too much. With the giant wide fragile front wings breaking and leaving carbon fiber shards at the start of every race and always the threat of slashing tires on overtaking, this combination (wing & tires) is being largely ignored. While tire face durability has increased, sidewalls must be taking a hit to offset weight gain. Go back over the season with this in mind and this issue of punctures and other tire failure (along with front wings) is the #1 factor in race outcome for most cars. Not speed, driver talent, engine reliability, none of that is as significant.
@Chris Herrin Thanks for explaining. Which is it, the viewers matter or the sponsors? If sponsors backing out is what teaches a lesson then 99% of commenters have the same effect as me: zero. And you bring up the conundrum of sport vs entertainment. The FIA is the "sport" side of it, while the rest is entertainment? While I acknowledge plenty of politics in FIA that's the point; it acts as a buffer between entertainment and sport. Otherwise we would have DeathRace F1 (though they'd need a tire supplier who could put spikes on them), and naked women straddling the cars and flames out the exhaust... starting to sound good, just need the vertical loop in the track and we're ready to go! Unfortunately everyone who has survived a major crash in the past 20 years is probably a fan of some things the FIA has done (and their families, friends, and other caring humans) so it's not "nobody". Much of what got us into these awkward compromises is F1 management screwing with the formula (engines, car height, all the "looks" of the cars). If the FIA didn't react and promote safety I think races wouldn't be allowed in many countries because of their own laws?? And because F1 sets Formula a certain way, FIA merely says "if you're going to do that then you'll need x, y, and z." We have these same Tilke tracks spread around the world (no Nürburgring or local thrilling road races) because of the Formula not making the cars suitable. By stripping down the cars' adaptability (suspension, durability, and such) they make the venues pay (by building tracks to suit the cars) rather than the teams making the cars pay for vehicles suitable for the tracks. So I'm saying that behind every FIA decision is an F1 management choice and that's the real reason.
@Chris Herrin - the sheep are the ones that repeat the same uninformed arguments in an echo chamber of ignorance. I'm all for some creative thinking beyond the choices selected for them (no protection, halo, full or half screen). What's another way to do this? Ban or severely penalize teams for parts falling off cars, including all that carbon fibre? Toyota built a mesh screen that shoots up inside the windshield in the event of major crash to prevent glass injuries; is something like that possible? Any ideas outside the sheep box would be appreciated.
The thing is, halo isn't going to change the races at all. The drivers will drive in the same style doing everything the same. This means, that you hate on halo and don't want to make the cars safer ONLY because of the looks of it. That is just stupid. And esthetics don't really change the racing experience. We've got used to stepped noses, dildo noses, rabbit ears, because in the end it didn't really matter. What mattered was wether the races were boring or there was amazing competition. When I look at F1 cars from 70s I can only think about how silly they look with those small front wheels, flat chassis and raised cockpits, but that doesn't mean I don't like to watch the races from back then. I just couldn't care less for the looks, it does not bring excitement to this sport.
How many drivers have we lost in F1 since Senna and Ratzenberger died?? One and the Halo would not have saved him. In fact trying to extract him would have been even more difficult with a halo fitted. F1 drivers have the safest cars, tracks and instant medical attention. A driver is more likely being killed travelling to the circuit than getting an injury on track. Sorry but F1 is a shadow of itself and I for one will not be watching.
If all of the drivers, and all of the team bosses have accepted this and even, as stated in the video, *all* of the drivers on the grid wanted some form of head protection, why are you still being a fucking massive bitch about it? Get over it, its literally a better safe then sorry situation, its literally doing no negatives, they worked out all the kinks, and like again stated in the video, you will get used to the look of it, so how about you grow up, and get over it, and quite frankly, no one will care if you or anyone else stopped watching.
i have a wierd feeling that at some point in 2018 we will see a very terrible crash where the halo will do its job, essentially showing justifying why its needed. that said, they really should develop it more into an aeroscreen like the indy cars are testing, as is now, it looks like a band aid fix, just slapped on the car. not enough integration to the overall package of the car. it looks so out of place. the can keep the halo frame but add a clear half canopy where they can have the best of both worlds, the stuper strong protection of the halo with a screen deflector for small debris, and the screen will take away from the uglyness of the halo by itself.
halo is not for those types of incidents anyway krosnoff has been dealt with via stronger survival cells and less adventurous street circuit design, bianchi's was dealt with via the vsc
Just as an idea, wouldn't it make more sense to do a roll cage type style thing connecting to the top of the air intake, starting at where the halo does, say 2 'a' pillar style bars with triangle bracing going towards rear of the vehicle, if I could draw it I would,
My only only issues is why not use a "fighter plane" canopy instead? NHRA had been using it since 2012 with no problems and formula e is switching to it, and it looks better and more aggressive
problem is: drag racing is done in a matter of seconds, not 2 hours like f1, so the canopy just have to withstand frontal forces for a very limited amount of time, and FE isn't as fast as F1, so forces on the canopy are way weaker... technology isn't here yet to guarantee that the canopy would work under any circumstance in a F1 race
The canopies are based off of the F-16, which face way more force than the dragsters and F1 cars, and are usually made of bulletproof material, so if they base it off the NHRA then they will hold up. You could say that bugs, debris, etc could block vision, but most race cars already deal with this by having a clear sheet they pull off during the pit stop.
Moribax85 what? Crashes often happen in miliseconds at a time. That's what the canopy is designed to protect against, objects entering the driver head zone and injuring said driver. It's not designed to prevent things like crushing pressure which is what you're saying right? What are you on about?
i'm on about saying that getting an impact on the canopy at 200 km/h and getting the same impact at over 300 km/h are 2 whole different things: current materials can withstand impacts at 200 km/h reliably, but are unrealiable when getting impacts at 300 km/h, forces are way greater, not counting the view distortion of the canopy that will affect the driver aswell
Why does eveybody make such a fuss about safety. I drive Hillclimbraces in Switzerland and Germany. Oftentimes on tight roads on Mountains. If we crash at full speed we are dead. There is two options. Falling of or slamming into a cliff. The chances of survival in all the modified road cars are farely slim. But its just part of racing. Also accidents and deaths are still very very rare. We know the risks and just treat the Mountain with respekt.
TheNecromancer6666 Why do they put rollcages in fast cars? They just add weight. Racing is about danger so why bother putting heavy metal tubing in the cars, or racing harnesses, fireproof racing overalls? Why not race in shorts, without a helmet in a car which will crush you inside itself when you make a mistake? Danger is a part of racing, you and all your racer friends are all ready to die ofc.
Riku Kovanen There is a difference between managing risks and stupidity. And yes if you drive in any kind of Motorsport or just go for a laptime on the Nordschleife you have to be aware that you could die. Luckily it is very unlikely but you just have to accept it.
How does the aeroscreen that Indycar shown on Scott Dixons car stack up in safety terms compared to the halo? As that looks like a miles better solution to me anyway.
All the example shown are picked, to showcase the effectiveness. If you took all the crashes the amount of people would have been saved would have been miniscule. The drivers can choose not to drive if the don't want to.
Why would they showcase completely unrelated accidents? If they were trying to show the effectiveness of fire suits, should they pick accidents that didn't involve fires? Dumbass.
They use about ten examples where they would make a difference. but if you compare it to the number of accidents in total, it's minuscule amount. Racing is dangerous, and there must be a point where we draw the line of what safety precautions are needed. Yes, people die driving really fast and hitting objects. And the drivers know it. It's called open seater for a reason.
I think It's a positive step, we want the racers to be safe. Only concerns i had was if the halo, hindered in anyway the driver from exiting the car within the alotted time set by the FIA. Has there been any information released on this?
It seems to me more F1 drivers have been killed on the track then driving a road car. I suspect based on hours behind the wheel, the F1 cars are far more dangerous
Kopite 1906 F1 is too safe now? Best solution: Make criminals who got sentenced to death become F1 drivers. Have them drive modern F1 cars but without any safety devices installed, no helmets or fireresistent suits, no seatbelts etc. and let them race to win the championship. Many will die for sure in some very nasty crashes, bones broken, heads squished or decapitated, bodies crippled into a pile of pop, but at the end the one lucky bastard that indeed does win the WDC gets a ticket back into freedom. Sounds familiar somehow..... oh wait, 'Gamer' the movie with the guy from '300'.
The Thing is that there is some risk when racing in f1, but there should be. I'm sure most drivers would take that risk, and it is what makes that sport so thrilling.
What are your thoughts on the fact that Indycar have developing their own aeroscreen/shield and will possibly put it to use next year? Also since you mentioned that you'd rather F1 switch to closed cockpit rather than stick with the halo I think you should take a look at the closed canopy top fuel dragster that the US army team developed, seems like a good working concept. a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0804/rpm_u_schumacher_sy_400.jpg
You know what would be a more positive outcome in all test cases? why, if they all raced in simulators. cars are dangerous. no need to have them going fast around a track
During this weekend they have been talks on pitlane visibility with halo ... but if they can manage 2s pitstop, I think they can handle this aswell. Personally I don't mind the looks of it ... just as I don't mind the engines not being noisy enough. It's all part of the evolution, cars look and work differently than they did 10-20 years ago and I'd say it is for the better from driver's safety perspective.
There's plenty of good racing in Formula 2 and other feeder series which have lower horsepower engines. Actually the racing tends to be closer in slower cars! So its good for the sport and good for safety, it's a win-win :P You wanna see a manly sport ruclips.net/video/MQW5DAOpoA4/видео.html
Is racing ruined because they don’t have 1200 hp engines? Because that is completely possible, but more people would die. If you ask me the answer is yes. F1 is completely boring and you more or less just proved that you are too.
If we needed the halo and tested against flying wheels.. why did FIA make "tyre tethers" mandatory? (see Kvyat 2016 Austria practice), it works without a problem. And yes, the possibility of a car going for sideflips is possible, but only since 2016 when the cars didn't create as much downforce as now. I get that they were aiming for head protection against if a car mounts another and that I agree on, you'd rather have something there to cause some sort of hindrance to the direct contact of a front wing/floor smacking the side of your head (I don't include wheel or sidepod because if it's fitted, big objects won't get to the driver). Overall... alike the new logo (Follow @F1 on twitter to see it), it'll take time to get used to, I just hope next year's camera angles are from the T-Cam shot and not the 'over the shoulder shot' otherwise it'll ruin the point of watching it.
What about the fact that the minimum time that is required for the driver to be able to exit the cockpit has been increased... so what are we just going to ask a fire to burn slower???
I notice they considered the 2015 ABC Supply 500 crash which killed Justin Wilson. Which kinda makes me wonder - why didn't they provide an answer during the conference with regards to the 2011 IZOD World Championship crash which instantly killed Dan Wheldon? Admittedly, there are more things to take into account with that disaster, but considering Wheldon died on impact with a fence post surrounding the Las Vegas Motor Speedway. If there was a Halo fitted on the car, would it have provided enough protection for Wheldon? Would he have survived? Would the Halo have remained intact? All I ask of the FIA is whether it would have been at the minimum a 'positive on balance' for that crash.
The halo with the purplish sahara livery idea looks slick and erases most of my doubts about whether the aesthetics can be pulled off. Yeah, the basic black is ugly, but I'm holding out to see how the teams build around or over it. As for the rest, I absolutely concur, safety is paramount. Unfortunately, it will only take time for the detractors to die down. Its the nature of the beast when it comes to changes against the norm.
Have any of you stopped for a second to realize that (y)our opinion on this topic is utterly irrelevant? The drivers *unanimously* voted for this. Case closed.
Shared and liked x1000, massive thumbs up to you sir, this video should end all banter about the Halo. If not, I fear for this community and its members.
I completely support the Halo being added to F1 cars from 2018. I understand that it doesn't look good, but in terms of safety, it makes sense. Drivers need to be protected against any hazards, especially flying debris. Even though Halo isn't perfect, it's a step in the right direction in terms of safety. In some of the F1 crashes I've seen in this video, the Halo would have made a difference. I support the FIA's decision regarding Halo, as I myself consider driver safety paramount in regards to crash protection.
Impossible is a word in the fools dictionary. Safety and (open-kart) attractiveness can co-exist. I think the Halo can certainly improve in fit, form & function over a few generations don't you think? F1 cars have. My opinion on its aesthetics makes no difference; the drivers' have the say...anyway the engineers will make it look good, so don't get your nuts in a bunch, boys. We can always improve safety without the negatives; I think that any argument judging it useless because other vehicle types do not or cannot implement something like it, like motorcycles for example, has no basis whatsoever, what to speak of submitting any profane and baseless opinion like, "f**k that man ... safety is good enough and the halo is a piece of sh*t". Who speaks like this? No authority, I'll tell you that. Indeed I believe the implementation could even improve upon driver vehicle exit facility. That you or I can't figure it out makes no difference to a real engineer, how ever difficult it may be. It is also worth mentioning that just because athletes accept the dangers of their sport doesn't mean that we should relax the progress of safety either. If nothing else lawsuits can force the change. Furthermore it is certainly unwise to curtail technological advancements in safety in favor of aesthetics or for ones' mere opinion that safety has finally reached the "good enough" category--we're not building soap box cars now are we? Good grief. The brains who move F1 forward do not waste their valuable time speculating in the RUclips comments section, so don't expect to see much industry knowledge and forethought here. F1 is an elite and unique sport with the brightest minds who have the resources. Some might also say that nothing can stop ones' own karma, be it a death sentence for one poor soul or decades of perfect safety for the sport as a whole--things always change, for better or worse, no matter what. It is always prudent to be proactive. The profane bolt-heads that is the bane of RUclips will never slow mans' pursuit to continuously improve. So please kindly disregard the plethora of useless comments and profane language; such people do little to help progress and only confuse the innocent.
Honestly, my opinion will never change. Formula 1 was built on pushing the envelope, on taking things to the limit, on risking your life to win. That, to me, is beautiful, it's the main reason as to why I became a fan. I'm not saying that I want the drivers to die every time they sit behind the wheel, I'm saying that, personally, the beauty of the sport is drivers taming these insanely powerful and crazy beasts, something that not many people can do - that's what's special about F1: doing what others can't do. Softening F1 like this is taking the joy out of the sport. It's not being conservative or being afraid of change; it's recognizing that F1 was built on risk and reward.
I think th painted up halos look slick. They should have just called it a driver down force generator or something performancy and no one would be complaining.
Marcus Jackson I fear it's not that simple. It adds Weight and influences the Aero of the Car. So from a performance standpoint you don't want it. And to evade any discussion, it's going to be mandatory
If you want closed cockpit protection go saloon racing. No one wants to see anybody injured but they have more of a chance getting hurt getting to the track then the actual race.
I rather see a dumb looking car then seeing my favorite driver died in a crash.
MichaelTV44 exactly
J Thorsson what’s so pussified about not wanting to live the rest of you life hooked to a machine in a wheel chair sipping all of your meals from a straw?
I’d rather watch a better sport.
lol, it's easy to scratch the keyboard. Bet this guy doesn't even have a driving license.
J thorsson I wonder how you would feel if you were a F1 driver and knowing that everytime you go to a grand prix there is a chance that you won't see the following day forever.
It takes balls to apologies for a mistake. Brave action.
Having seen my hero die live (Senna) and knowing that a halo with a steel wire secured wheel would have probably saved him I prefer to get used to to the damn thing rather go through the same horrifying images again.
Maybe a dynamic deployable system can be developed so that it is hidden from view when racing and deploy itself once the system recognizes that an accident is bound to take place. Lets see. The fact is that FIA is not your local "bob the builder" but they have scientists working on that shit. These people have a rather high combined IQ ...if they say thats the best solution we got they know what they are talking about.....
Negative outcome means it would’ve made the crash worse
Drench 15 that makes sense. Thanks for that. :)
I can't see how the Massa one is positive
I would say Negative as the Halo could deflect the spring downward into the chest area which would kill a drive instantly
Spook, you underestimate, titanium and carbon fiber.
DDS029 how so?
a glance at speed would not have the titanium and carbon fibre doing there job properly, very different to how it would react to a full hit
Spook well a lot of the energy wood absorb by the Halo on the first hit so we don't really know it could but after the first hit slow down a lot
as long as drivers can see and it doesn't slow a car down, who really cares how it looks
I don’t agree. The look and style of the cars to me is equal to the performance and racing
Im 3 years late yes, but teams now use the halo to their advantage in aerodynamics and to focus the airflow on specific areas of the car
I couldn't care less whether the halo will be on the cars or not, I'm here for the racing. That McLaren livery looked aggressive af actually. People just love to whine and that's the end of that, oh and not to say, many that complain probably don't even watch F1 seriously/regularly and they still whine. Disgusting imo.
Best Halo analysis video anywhere on the internet right now.
This channel needs more subs! Great mix of opinions and facts
Looks like they're sitting in a flip-flop with wheels.
Top video comment
A SAFE flip-flop with wheels
That's true, it is an ugly solution, but driver safety is *always* more important than aesthetics. The classic open cockpit definitely looks better, but I think we'll get used to the halo soon enough, and eventually stop noticing it.
I don't even see the Halo anymore.
Seriously whoever thinks that the halo is a bad idea, doesn't know how dangerous F1 actually is. And honestly I think that the halo really looks pretty sick.
I can live with the Halo as long as it won't have any impact on either lap times or the quality of racing. Obviously, I'd rather keep things the way they are, but I've already gotten used to seeing it on the cars, so I won't mind too much as long as the two things mentioned above won't be affected. Hopefully, in the long-term, they'd resort to either the Shield or the Aeroscreen as they look more fitting on the cars.
Since it is an integeral part of the car, or at least is going to be, I suppose it could make the cars even quicker. Being a very small margin ofcourse, if at all.
TheJoker- Now you've got me curious. In what way do you imagine it could have either of the detrimental effects that you express concern for?
+X Million The reason I was initially a bit pessimistic about these two aspects is because I thought that the Halo would impair visibility so much that the drivers would have to slow down at high-speed corners, for example, which of course, would automatically lead to a slower lap time, but since then my pessimism has vanished fortunately. The same reason (reduced visibility) was more or less my initial concern regarding the 'quality of racing' aspect as well.
I think the full canopy would be the best looking and biggest evolution of the sport
Alexander Willems But that isn’t what F1 is, if you want that try WEC
F-16s don't encounter many walls or tires. Aircraft canopies are rated for a 4 pound bird at 350mph though that's not guaranteed (first pic is f-16 cracked by bird en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike). In 2014 they grounded 80 F-16s for cracks (though long-term UV was major culprit). The plastic is 1 inch thick, imagine the weight! A bird is not very dense, a bolt at 100mph would probably work well to shatter it, a tire would certainly be unfortunate. Do google image search for "Damaged canopy due to a bird strike" and let me know if you feel safe.
Another big issue is hypoxia or fumes being in enclosed F1 car canopy. Cockpit would require sealing so no fumes, probably an oxygen tank & mask for emergencies, the hinging hardware and structural support to hold that massive canopy on and allow it to be opened.
Designs like Brawn's super Red Bull racer that has enclosed wheels and a canopy are designed with support in mind and haven't been built so we don't know the actual weight.
LMP1 cars have 100 kg more minimum weight than F1.
have you seen how well the top fuel dragster canopys have survived at speeds far greater then f1
@MAADUECE - No, I haven't, do tell. And what have they survived? collisions with cranes and heavy equipment? flying tires and bolts and other mechanical debris? Stress force is psi related so rolling on flat pavement wouldn't have same stress as a 200 mph bolt or forklift blade.
ruclips.net/video/RjjxZlB3MsE/видео.html
If the major reason for not choosing the aero screen was because of the crash test, then i hope they find a solution to that problem and replace the halo for '19
I think now they have it in the team colours and patterns they looks better
It´s funny to see this after knowing that later that season the halo basically saved leclercs head from coming off after the alonso flying crash
Only one problem I have with the aero screen: what happens when it rains?
One last thing and I'm done. The thing with the tire test is that all three, in a way, succeeded. The Halo just didn't have a few cracks, but all 3 did what they were designed to do.
Safety isn't most important. The attraction of high speed racing is risk. Taking away all the risk takes away the excitement. We are not wrapping MMA fighters in bubblewrap either.
Such a tough call. Death and injury is as much a part of F1 as open wheel and innovation. But then again, safety has also been a major part of F1 history. I think it'll save lives and the first driver saved will be make everyone sit back and take a deep breath.
I'm from the future and you're exactly right
This comment section in a nutshell:
I dont want drivers to die but *selfish reason putting their entertainment over lives*
Racing is not entertainment. It's a right of passion in life 🏁🏁
Nanderlizer Nanderlizer
F1 is too safe now?
Well then, how about we make criminals who got sentenced to death become F1 drivers?
Have them drive modern F1 cars but without any safety devices installed, no helmets or fireresistent suits, no seatbelts etc. and let them race to win the championship.
Many will die for sure in some very nasty crashes, bones broken, heads squished or decapitated, bodies crippled into a pile of pop, but at the end the one lucky bastard that indeed does win the WDC gets a ticket back into freedom.
Sounds familiar somehow..... oh wait, 'Gamer' the movie with the guy from '300'.
@14:00 so these are universal externally bought items, stuck on the car, and cannot be adjusted to improve the chassis and performance?
If safety is absolutely paramount then one either has to dramatically reduce the speed of the cars, or take the driver out of the car. In this day and age there is no technological need to have a driver in the car, or even have a car at all considering the current simulators.
Meanwhile after Grosjean, Bahrain 2020...
So glad they have this
I find it quite inconsiderate of some people that they care more about the looks of the car and that "motorsport is supposed to be dangerous" than the safety of the drivers. I definitely understand the complaints, but surely you cannot argue against the FIA caring for the safety of their drivers. I don't like the look of the halo either, I think it looks terrible, but the sport won't change. It will still be the same drivers, driving the same cars, driving around the same tracks. So I don't see how the halo can change your opinion of the sport.
I actually have to agree with you on one point. Safety is number one and the halo indeed won't change how drivers race. And in fact the excitement doesn't come from danger, but from the fact that there's tension. However, I disagree with halo not due to making it safer, but because f1 is already safe enough. Yes, there are cars flying around. But the shape of an f1 car already makes it pretty hard to actually hit the driver's head. From behind it's next to impossible, head on it's completely impossible, because you'll be safely hidden under the front wing. And if the car is slightly sideways, then the front wing and car shape will divert it from your head. So, how many of these close calls have actually been close calls? How many of these accidents really were dangerous? The answer is simple... Way less than you think. Most of them look dangerous, but in reality the danger of dying from the impact force or being hit by debris is much, much higher than from being ran over by a car. The only really scary thing would be if the car that runs over you caught on fire, but a halo won't protect you from that. In fact it may make it worse.
It is like when NHL leads these discussions about fighting. Many people want to ban fighting, because it's life threatening. However, fighting is what makes the sport humble. And there's a much greater risk to die from a dirty hit than from a fight. In fact as it stands, there has been only one death and a minimal amount of players not being able to play anymore in connection with fighting. On the international level it's much more watched though. And I still remember IIHF 2015 I think it was? Our country hosted the cup. And it was insane. We against Belarus was something that turned so violent, because Belarusian players were dirty. If someone could punch them in the face, it'd be much safer. But this way our team had two injured players and many angered fans despite overrunning them in the scoreboard.
In both cases the risks are exaggerated. And that's why I support fights in NHL and no halo in F1.
Elliota you can't force people to watch a sport. That's all it comes down to. Attractiveness is important
Wrong, problem with your opinion is that you cannot draw a line anywhere. So why not stop human drivers driving F1? I assure you that's even safer for the drivers 😂
You can't deny facts. Good video.
my only concern is on the onboard cameras, whats the angle going to be and all that cus the current angle looks pretty good and i hope they arent just going to use shoulder cam
just found out about this Halo. I really don't mind it, as long as my favourite driver is alive and doing his job on the circuit.
One of the problems with it is that its going to be a standard part rather than something designed by the teams.
When they introduced the high sided cockpit protection most of the cars looked totally awful, especially the bathtub Ferrari, but Mclaren came up with a really cool looking solution that really integrated with the design of the car.
What the FIA should do is what they do with every other crash structure and just tell the teams "this is the area that you can put the device and this is the crash test it has to withstand" and then see what the teams come up with.
Thanks for re-considering the Halo, although it may look a little ugly, it is a driver-endorsed product, brought to the FiA by drivers and shows that driver safety is paramount. Excellent video, bravo!
"Driver endorsed" -- Debatable, yes the drivers wanted head protection but many of the current drivers are critical of the Halo.
1/4 were critical. 3/4 were indifferent about the visibility issues
The sport doesn't need to be 100% safe.. Risk is part of the attraction. There IS a "to safe, especially if it affects traditional look and feel".
I think it might be a good idea to put a visor on the halo from the mirrors to the verdicel bar under the horazontal bar. My apologies on my spelling
from the pictures towards the end, it looks like the halo may obstruct partial view in the wing mirrors, with that in mind and assuming that all parts of the car are built to balance air flow, moving them might be a costly side effect.
Give it a few races into the season or maybe even a full season and they'll be streamlined in and looking good while keeping people safe. When carbon fiber gets to bashing about and whole chassis fly through the air I always watch for the little nugget in the center to stay safe. Most times they do, sometimes they don't. This will help that. Good things. Big of you to drop a new opinion on your previous. We all agree they're VERY ugly as they stand today haha. Good vid.
Like many other people I hated the looks of it at first, but after these infos I'm really intrigued of what could be possible. Maybe they are able to implement the halo structue in a way that it follows the design lines of the car (slope of nose cone, smooth connection to airbox structure) and shape the bar so that it even creates downforce. Combined with a nice paint job I honestly have to say that it could even be a good looking part. Let's wait and see! :)
It's good that the days of a t-shirt, no seat belts and a sip of wine during a pit stop are long gone.
There needs to be 2 flashing light boxes now because of that center pillar. If there is only one it can easily be obstructed by the pillar but if there is two then the pillar can't block both. Alternately 1 long and thin futuristic looking OLED light bar like what is in new BMWs and Audis tail lights, maybe across the spoiler. I'm sure the designers can find a good way to integrate those sexy OLED slivers into F1 cars. That would be awesome and improve safety.
Hm fair enough. FIA seem to do their homework after all.
However: The device that would've saved Surtees would've been wheeltethers and are already implemented in f1.
I don't think I've ever seen a wheel come off after those were introduced.
Regarding Wilson's crash: Indycars have to work on saftey in general. Those cars break apart so easily compared to f1 cars, the crashes are not representative to F1. Same with GP2.
Also: In any kind of Motorcycle racing the rider is even more exposed. There is no crash structure whatsoever and the inherent risk of that is considered part of the sport.
F1 always involved risk. That's what distinguishes a racing driver from a soccer player and makes them true heroes!
Obstsalat95 more people die in soccer, just saying
While that may be true in total numbers, it is not true if you look at the percentages.
How many F1 drivers are there compared to soccer playing kids?
exactly...
Obstsalat95 soccer playing kids. Soccer is a serious sport.
thats not my point. my point is that f1 or motorsport in general involves more risk than soccer
Obstsalat95 nah, f1 has developed many safety features that make it a lot safer that it used to be. Playing soccer, football, wrestling, or any other contact sport has a higher risk than certain motor sports
There's literally been 1 accident in the past ten years in f1 where a driver got injured because of an object hitting them, and the halo probably wouldn't have even prevented that
Tim Pecover did you not watch the video? He explained various accidents where the halo would have minimize the impact of the accident.
TheBrass18 if the impact wasn't enough to injure the driver without the halo, then there is no point of the halo because no one would have been injured in the first place
Tim Pecover better injured than dead.
Tim Pecover there is other categories
JMT Racing I'm talking about f1
I look at it like this.
Yes it is ugly looking on the cars...
BUT
i never want to witness losing another highly talented driver ever again, Jules's death left me heartbroken and numb for so long, the kid was a future champion. Probably would have been touch and go as to whether the halo would have saved him considering the accident but the findings don't lie.
Personally after seeing this video, even though it looks so out of place on the cars, i do feel a lot more at ease knowing that Max Verstappen and Sebastian Vettel (favourite drivers) are that much safer. Thank you
I think combination of Halo and Indicar Protector will be great, as the protector glass in indicar will help for small particles running at 200mph speed that Halo won't be able to sustain the impact of those small particles from car breakage
In my opinion, whether or not they are in an open cockpit should be irrelevant. We watch racing for driver skill. Yes risk is part of racing, but there's no reason to have the drivers head dangling out of the car like a cheap 90s antenna. Peoples lives hang in the balance. And if being without the halo is worth more to you then a human life, maybe you shouldn't be watching racing in the first place.
I think they MUST center the camera placement next year, because when it is mounted slightly to the left as it is now, it makes the Halo look even uglier. If the camera is centered, at least stuff will be symmetrical. Hopefully they come up with an overall better looking solution though.
When I first saw the halo I though it was weird and I wasn’t sure if I liked it. Honestly I don’t even think about it anymore. And actually I’m starting to like it, and I’m surprised no team has used it as almost a second wing in some way. Unless their not allowed to put aerodynamic elements on them.
The visibility issue is big. Always good to be able to see where you're going.
Drivers are paid for danger and we should have danger, no seatbelts no helmets no Fire prof reacing gear. It should be dangerous. The race sould be to survive not come first. We’ll have to charge drivers every race because everyone is dead
Hope you se the sarcams...........
Skalman Oz- Yes, but it's fucked up how many of our fellow commentors are not too far away from sincerely advocating that which you do sarcastically.
Well I would apart from the fact that nobody advocating against the halo has ever used this logic.
what happened 2013 with Chilton? Never heard and saw this? 😶
After seeing those accidents of cars catapulting into the air and over each other, I support the idea. Sure it doesn't look great now but we'l get used to it.
Josiah Sinclair but how is the halo going to stop that from happening
Its not that it will stop the cars from potentially going airbourne, but that it will help protect the drivers heads from other cars flying over them or from colliding with barriers when they flip over. Looking back at those clips for instance the Alonso and Grosjean crash, I cringe at how much worse the outcome could've been.
agreed
Josiah Sinclair let's say the car hits the halo side on. Lots of debris is going to go through the halo and still hit the driver in the head regardless of whether the halo is there or not
Well I'm judging it by the FIA testing that looked at the various incidences of this happeneing and concluded that in all but one of the crashes (The Schumacher crash) of car -to-car contact the halo would have had a positive impact.
Have you ever heard about motorcycle racing? Motogp? Isle of Man TT? This discussion is ridiculous! If F1 cars must have rollcages to be safe, motogp and all forms of motorcycle racing must de banned!
What's wrong with people nowadays?
FIA is banking on the assumption that fans will tolerate the halo. They could cut the engine power by half and save a lot of incidents that way as well, but fans wouldn't tolerate it. If fans tolerate the halo then that's all that matters really. I've got a terrible feeling that I'm going to tolerate it and watch F1 anyway. Whereas if they cut the engine power by half I definitely 100% would not keep watching it.
formula one is safe enough, part of the rush you get while driving is nearly dying so whats happening now
Take it from me, bike racers are a whole different animal and they are fully aware of all the risks but the feeling of 200mph on a bike is night and day different to 200mph in any form of car.
I agree that the dangers of bike racing are insane by comparison but you'd have literally no chance of imposing any restrictive safety devices on a rider.
want to know why your comment doesn't belong here? i'll tell you: when did you last see a f1 pilot leaving the car and roll on the ground to slow down like they do in bike races? racing is dangerous, always, but F1 (or any car race for that matter) and bike racing are 2 whole different things, like a boat and an airplane... do you make a boat that has oxygen masks or a plane with self-sealing compartments?
@ Moribax85 Missed your tablets today?
LOL Every time I hear about the plexi screen being rejected due to Seb's dizziness, I keep feeling there's a joke there, but I can't quite come up with it.
Proud of you owning up. In January 2017 Autosport did analysis (bit.ly/halo-alonso) and I was convinced. Love that you pointed out noses because people said "it will ruin the sport" etc and now have forgotten it. Comments here already milder. Move on, y'all, and hate the next thing, there will be plenty of opportunities to repeat the same unverified phrases back at each other so they sound true.
A real thing I think is unaddressed is tire failure; it affects safety and race results way too much. With the giant wide fragile front wings breaking and leaving carbon fiber shards at the start of every race and always the threat of slashing tires on overtaking, this combination (wing & tires) is being largely ignored. While tire face durability has increased, sidewalls must be taking a hit to offset weight gain. Go back over the season with this in mind and this issue of punctures and other tire failure (along with front wings) is the #1 factor in race outcome for most cars. Not speed, driver talent, engine reliability, none of that is as significant.
+Chris Herrin buthurt
@Chris Herrin Thanks for explaining. Which is it, the viewers matter or the sponsors? If sponsors backing out is what teaches a lesson then 99% of commenters have the same effect as me: zero.
And you bring up the conundrum of sport vs entertainment. The FIA is the "sport" side of it, while the rest is entertainment? While I acknowledge plenty of politics in FIA that's the point; it acts as a buffer between entertainment and sport. Otherwise we would have DeathRace F1 (though they'd need a tire supplier who could put spikes on them), and naked women straddling the cars and flames out the exhaust... starting to sound good, just need the vertical loop in the track and we're ready to go!
Unfortunately everyone who has survived a major crash in the past 20 years is probably a fan of some things the FIA has done (and their families, friends, and other caring humans) so it's not "nobody". Much of what got us into these awkward compromises is F1 management screwing with the formula (engines, car height, all the "looks" of the cars).
If the FIA didn't react and promote safety I think races wouldn't be allowed in many countries because of their own laws??
And because F1 sets Formula a certain way, FIA merely says "if you're going to do that then you'll need x, y, and z." We have these same Tilke tracks spread around the world (no Nürburgring or local thrilling road races) because of the Formula not making the cars suitable. By stripping down the cars' adaptability (suspension, durability, and such) they make the venues pay (by building tracks to suit the cars) rather than the teams making the cars pay for vehicles suitable for the tracks.
So I'm saying that behind every FIA decision is an F1 management choice and that's the real reason.
@Chris Herrin - the sheep are the ones that repeat the same uninformed arguments in an echo chamber of ignorance. I'm all for some creative thinking beyond the choices selected for them (no protection, halo, full or half screen). What's another way to do this? Ban or severely penalize teams for parts falling off cars, including all that carbon fibre? Toyota built a mesh screen that shoots up inside the windshield in the event of major crash to prevent glass injuries; is something like that possible? Any ideas outside the sheep box would be appreciated.
The thing is, halo isn't going to change the races at all. The drivers will drive in the same style doing everything the same. This means, that you hate on halo and don't want to make the cars safer ONLY because of the looks of it. That is just stupid.
And esthetics don't really change the racing experience. We've got used to stepped noses, dildo noses, rabbit ears, because in the end it didn't really matter. What mattered was wether the races were boring or there was amazing competition.
When I look at F1 cars from 70s I can only think about how silly they look with those small front wheels, flat chassis and raised cockpits, but that doesn't mean I don't like to watch the races from back then. I just couldn't care less for the looks, it does not bring excitement to this sport.
How many drivers have we lost in F1 since Senna and Ratzenberger died?? One and the Halo would not have saved him. In fact trying to extract him would have been even more difficult with a halo fitted. F1 drivers have the safest cars, tracks and instant medical attention. A driver is more likely being killed travelling to the circuit than getting an injury on track. Sorry but F1 is a shadow of itself and I for one will not be watching.
James Coburn it's not about fucking F1. It's about open cockpit racing full stop
This is a F1 channel or have you noticed?? What other series in 2018 is fitting a Halo?? Only F1. Think before you post.
actually the f2 car for 2018 is fitted with the halo-system and every other racing formula from the FIA will get halo with the next vehicle generation
James Coburn I agree m8 I too am done with this sport` shame too I love f1 but its gone too far now.
If all of the drivers, and all of the team bosses have accepted this and even, as stated in the video, *all* of the drivers on the grid wanted some form of head protection, why are you still being a fucking massive bitch about it? Get over it, its literally a better safe then sorry situation, its literally doing no negatives, they worked out all the kinks, and like again stated in the video, you will get used to the look of it, so how about you grow up, and get over it, and quite frankly, no one will care if you or anyone else stopped watching.
I wonder what team will be the first to put a wing on it for more aero grip.
i have a wierd feeling that at some point in 2018 we will see a very terrible crash where the halo will do its job, essentially showing justifying why its needed.
that said, they really should develop it more into an aeroscreen like the indy cars are testing, as is now, it looks like a band aid fix, just slapped on the car. not enough integration to the overall package of the car. it looks so out of place.
the can keep the halo frame but add a clear half canopy where they can have the best of both worlds, the stuper strong protection of the halo with a screen deflector for small debris, and the screen will take away from the uglyness of the halo by itself.
real talk, sometimes i look at fatal crashes to get a sense of how far we've come.
dont do it, but search jeff krosnoff
Boy10Dio jeez
A halo device wouldn't have saved him or Bianchi.
halo is not for those types of incidents anyway
krosnoff has been dealt with via stronger survival cells and less adventurous street circuit design, bianchi's was dealt with via the vsc
Krosnoff wasn't killed by a weak safety cell. he was launched into the air and his head hit a light pole.
holy f what a crash
Just as an idea, wouldn't it make more sense to do a roll cage type style thing connecting to the top of the air intake, starting at where the halo does, say 2 'a' pillar style bars with triangle bracing going towards rear of the vehicle, if I could draw it I would,
Halos look nice if the colours are painted acording to the cars colour
My only only issues is why not use a "fighter plane" canopy instead? NHRA had been using it since 2012 with no problems and formula e is switching to it, and it looks better and more aggressive
problem is: drag racing is done in a matter of seconds, not 2 hours like f1, so the canopy just have to withstand frontal forces for a very limited amount of time, and FE isn't as fast as F1, so forces on the canopy are way weaker... technology isn't here yet to guarantee that the canopy would work under any circumstance in a F1 race
The canopies are based off of the F-16, which face way more force than the dragsters and F1 cars, and are usually made of bulletproof material, so if they base it off the NHRA then they will hold up. You could say that bugs, debris, etc could block vision, but most race cars already deal with this by having a clear sheet they pull off during the pit stop.
The canopy distorts the view (fish-bowl effect), which causes dizziness. Mentioned in this video as well. ;)
Moribax85 what? Crashes often happen in miliseconds at a time. That's what the canopy is designed to protect against, objects entering the driver head zone and injuring said driver. It's not designed to prevent things like crushing pressure which is what you're saying right? What are you on about?
i'm on about saying that getting an impact on the canopy at 200 km/h and getting the same impact at over 300 km/h are 2 whole different things: current materials can withstand impacts at 200 km/h reliably, but are unrealiable when getting impacts at 300 km/h, forces are way greater, not counting the view distortion of the canopy that will affect the driver aswell
Why does eveybody make such a fuss about safety. I drive Hillclimbraces in Switzerland and Germany. Oftentimes on tight roads on Mountains. If we crash at full speed we are dead. There is two options. Falling of or slamming into a cliff. The chances of survival in all the modified road cars are farely slim. But its just part of racing. Also accidents and deaths are still very very rare. We know the risks and just treat the Mountain with respekt.
TheNecromancer6666 Why do they put rollcages in fast cars? They just add weight. Racing is about danger so why bother putting heavy metal tubing in the cars, or racing harnesses, fireproof racing overalls? Why not race in shorts, without a helmet in a car which will crush you inside itself when you make a mistake? Danger is a part of racing, you and all your racer friends are all ready to die ofc.
Riku Kovanen There is a difference between managing risks and stupidity. And yes if you drive in any kind of Motorsport or just go for a laptime on the Nordschleife you have to be aware that you could die. Luckily it is very unlikely but you just have to accept it.
How does the aeroscreen that Indycar shown on Scott Dixons car stack up in safety terms compared to the halo? As that looks like a miles better solution to me anyway.
All the example shown are picked, to showcase the effectiveness.
If you took all the crashes the amount of people would have been saved would have been miniscule.
The drivers can choose not to drive if the don't want to.
Why would they showcase completely unrelated accidents? If they were trying to show the effectiveness of fire suits, should they pick accidents that didn't involve fires? Dumbass.
They use about ten examples where they would make a difference.
but if you compare it to the number of accidents in total, it's minuscule amount.
Racing is dangerous, and there must be a point where we draw the line of what safety precautions are needed.
Yes, people die driving really fast and hitting objects. And the drivers know it. It's called open seater for a reason.
They chose examples where it helped? Why might that be? Really makes you think
raise the back half of the halo up, and place plexiglass (The type nascar uses for its windshields) and place that around the front of the halo.
I heard FIA test Halo on Greg Moore and Dan Weldon accidents , I don't know if was a positive or negative
I think It's a positive step, we want the racers to be safe.
Only concerns i had was if the halo, hindered in anyway the driver from exiting the car within the alotted time set by the FIA.
Has there been any information released on this?
No it’s still pathetic. F1 is dangerous but still safer than driving a road car
only because there are only 20 cars driven by professionals, not millions others driven by complete idiots
It seems to me more F1 drivers have been killed on the track then driving a road car. I suspect based on hours behind the wheel, the F1 cars are far more dangerous
Its extremely safe
Shawn Gillespie in a normal car are there deads to😒
Kopite 1906
F1 is too safe now?
Best solution:
Make criminals who got sentenced to death become F1 drivers.
Have them drive modern F1 cars but without any safety devices installed, no helmets or fireresistent suits, no seatbelts etc. and let them race to win the championship.
Many will die for sure in some very nasty crashes, bones broken, heads squished or decapitated, bodies crippled into a pile of pop, but at the end the one lucky bastard that indeed does win the WDC gets a ticket back into freedom.
Sounds familiar somehow..... oh wait, 'Gamer' the movie with the guy from '300'.
#MakeF1GreatAgain
Xeniøs Baphømet and we are gonna Let indycar pay 4 it
USA Grand Prix, Orange City
The Thing is that there is some risk when racing in f1, but there should be. I'm sure most drivers would take that risk, and it is what makes that sport so thrilling.
What are your thoughts on the fact that Indycar have developing their own aeroscreen/shield and will possibly put it to use next year? Also since you mentioned that you'd rather F1 switch to closed cockpit rather than stick with the halo I think you should take a look at the closed canopy top fuel dragster that the US army team developed, seems like a good working concept. a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0804/rpm_u_schumacher_sy_400.jpg
You know what would be a more positive outcome in all test cases? why, if they all raced in simulators. cars are dangerous. no need to have them going fast around a track
During this weekend they have been talks on pitlane visibility with halo ... but if they can manage 2s pitstop, I think they can handle this aswell.
Personally I don't mind the looks of it ... just as I don't mind the engines not being noisy enough.
It's all part of the evolution, cars look and work differently than they did 10-20 years ago and I'd say it is for the better from driver's safety perspective.
looks like the helmet is still poping out a little bit. how does the halo actually work?
Shrikant partha the roll bar behind the driver protects his head from roll overs
ok what if the tyre gets stuck in the upper gap?
We could also come up with a long list of incidents that would have been avoided if the engine power was reduced by half.
There's plenty of good racing in Formula 2 and other feeder series which have lower horsepower engines. Actually the racing tends to be closer in slower cars! So its good for the sport and good for safety, it's a win-win :P
You wanna see a manly sport ruclips.net/video/MQW5DAOpoA4/видео.html
Is racing ruined because they don’t have 1200 hp engines? Because that is completely possible, but more people would die. If you ask me the answer is yes. F1 is completely boring and you more or less just proved that you are too.
If we needed the halo and tested against flying wheels.. why did FIA make "tyre tethers" mandatory? (see Kvyat 2016 Austria practice), it works without a problem. And yes, the possibility of a car going for sideflips is possible, but only since 2016 when the cars didn't create as much downforce as now.
I get that they were aiming for head protection against if a car mounts another and that I agree on, you'd rather have something there to cause some sort of hindrance to the direct contact of a front wing/floor smacking the side of your head (I don't include wheel or sidepod because if it's fitted, big objects won't get to the driver).
Overall... alike the new logo (Follow @F1 on twitter to see it), it'll take time to get used to, I just hope next year's camera angles are from the T-Cam shot and not the 'over the shoulder shot' otherwise it'll ruin the point of watching it.
What was Chilton's accident at the 2013 German GP?
What about the fact that the minimum time that is required for the driver to be able to exit the cockpit has been increased... so what are we just going to ask a fire to burn slower???
17% is better than 0% as now BUT need to Aim Higher to make it 99.9%
Hopefully technology advances enough in the next few years for a fighter jet style canopy to become viable.
I notice they considered the 2015 ABC Supply 500 crash which killed Justin Wilson.
Which kinda makes me wonder - why didn't they provide an answer during the conference with regards to the 2011 IZOD World Championship crash which instantly killed Dan Wheldon? Admittedly, there are more things to take into account with that disaster, but considering Wheldon died on impact with a fence post surrounding the Las Vegas Motor Speedway. If there was a Halo fitted on the car, would it have provided enough protection for Wheldon? Would he have survived? Would the Halo have remained intact?
All I ask of the FIA is whether it would have been at the minimum a 'positive on balance' for that crash.
The halo with the purplish sahara livery idea looks slick and erases most of my doubts about whether the aesthetics can be pulled off. Yeah, the basic black is ugly, but I'm holding out to see how the teams build around or over it. As for the rest, I absolutely concur, safety is paramount. Unfortunately, it will only take time for the detractors to die down. Its the nature of the beast when it comes to changes against the norm.
At the race, u cant see the car so safety comes first. but bring back the sound! Thats what fan wants to see and hear! The experience of f1!
At 12:43 there is clearly a mistake with the livery
What was Chilton's 2013 accident? I can't find anything about it
www.givemesport.com/358468-max-chilton-spared-serious-injury-by-bulletproof-helmet
The F1 Word Ouch. It probably would have been like Helmut Marko's accident without the visor.
If Chilton got saved by a good helmet why is that positive for the halo
Tim Pecover Especially since it was a tiny pebble, which the Halo probably can't prevent
I understand the safety aspect, however it looks atrocious and it doesn't give even a whisper of a device that should be found on a Formula One car.
why not fit eject seats fitted with surround airbags to use in cases of extreme danger like hitting that crane
Have any of you stopped for a second to realize that (y)our opinion on this topic is utterly irrelevant? The drivers *unanimously* voted for this. Case closed.
Shared and liked x1000, massive thumbs up to you sir, this video should end all banter about the Halo. If not, I fear for this community and its members.
I think the FIAs reaction to the Bianci crash was the VSC (virtual safety car)
I completely support the Halo being added to F1 cars from 2018. I understand that it doesn't look good, but in terms of safety, it makes sense. Drivers need to be protected against any hazards, especially flying debris. Even though Halo isn't perfect, it's a step in the right direction in terms of safety. In some of the F1 crashes I've seen in this video, the Halo would have made a difference. I support the FIA's decision regarding Halo, as I myself consider driver safety paramount in regards to crash protection.
Impossible is a word in the fools dictionary. Safety and (open-kart) attractiveness can co-exist. I think the Halo can certainly improve in fit, form & function over a few generations don't you think? F1 cars have. My opinion on its aesthetics makes no difference; the drivers' have the say...anyway the engineers will make it look good, so don't get your nuts in a bunch, boys. We can always improve safety without the negatives; I think that any argument judging it useless because other vehicle types do not or cannot implement something like it, like motorcycles for example, has no basis whatsoever, what to speak of submitting any profane and baseless opinion like, "f**k that man ... safety is good enough and the halo is a piece of sh*t". Who speaks like this? No authority, I'll tell you that. Indeed I believe the implementation could even improve upon driver vehicle exit facility. That you or I can't figure it out makes no difference to a real engineer, how ever difficult it may be.
It is also worth mentioning that just because athletes accept the dangers of their sport doesn't mean that we should relax the progress of safety either. If nothing else lawsuits can force the change. Furthermore it is certainly unwise to curtail technological advancements in safety in favor of aesthetics or for ones' mere opinion that safety has finally reached the "good enough" category--we're not building soap box cars now are we? Good grief.
The brains who move F1 forward do not waste their valuable time speculating in the RUclips comments section, so don't expect to see much industry knowledge and forethought here.
F1 is an elite and unique sport with the brightest minds who have the resources. Some might also say that nothing can stop ones' own karma, be it a death sentence for one poor soul or decades of perfect safety for the sport as a whole--things always change, for better or worse, no matter what. It is always prudent to be proactive. The profane bolt-heads that is the bane of RUclips will never slow mans' pursuit to continuously improve. So please kindly disregard the plethora of useless comments and profane language; such people do little to help progress and only confuse the innocent.
Honestly, my opinion will never change. Formula 1 was built on pushing the envelope, on taking things to the limit, on risking your life to win. That, to me, is beautiful, it's the main reason as to why I became a fan. I'm not saying that I want the drivers to die every time they sit behind the wheel, I'm saying that, personally, the beauty of the sport is drivers taming these insanely powerful and crazy beasts, something that not many people can do - that's what's special about F1: doing what others can't do. Softening F1 like this is taking the joy out of the sport.
It's not being conservative or being afraid of change; it's recognizing that F1 was built on risk and reward.
Just imagine if Massas car had a halo and it deflected the debris in to his visor, it wouldn't be such a good idea then would it.
i dont actually mind the look of the halo
I think th painted up halos look slick. They should have just called it a driver down force generator or something performancy and no one would be complaining.
why not let drivers individualy decide if they do or don't run it?
Marcus Jackson
I fear it's not that simple.
It adds Weight and influences the Aero of the Car. So from a performance standpoint you don't want it. And to evade any discussion, it's going to be mandatory
thats when you could bring in handicaps such as weight
5:11 Nice to see people remember Heikki Kovalainen as they dont even remember how to write his name anymore.
who the fuck is that he isn’t even relevant never heard of him bet he got slapped up by everyone
3 years and tbh I don't even mind it anymore
If you want closed cockpit protection go saloon racing. No one wants to see anybody injured but they have more of a chance getting hurt getting to the track then the actual race.
Ugly device but the safety argument has swayed me.
Why don’t they use a F-14 Tomcat style halo to keep the vital front view of the drivers unblocked?
the new fad in carting will be to put a g-string backwards over your helmet to give you that cool F1 feeling.
A well balanced and researched opinion. They are here to stay in one form or another and will become transparent with time. Great video...
No need to apologise for your original video. Sure you did repeat yourself but definitely the point you made about the FIA was spot on.