@@موسى_7 I do not disagree with that. There are rumors that it started with a white belt that stained itself to black. There are others that it was white to black and blue and green were added. Not sure. I am certain that it is a marketing gimmick.
I practice both traditional and mixed martial arts, and elitism definitely isn't unique to TMAs. It all depends on the culture of the individual school. At my main gym, none of my teachers ask to be called master/sensei/sifu/guru/etc., and that does a lot to set the tone for the rest of us. But I have definitely encountered elitism in MMA, and ESPECIALLY in BJJ. With all due respect, I think you may be sipping the jiu jitsu koolaid to some extent. It's great that you've had good BJJ teachers and training partners, but BJJ in general is full of gate keeping and elitist attitudes. I've seen people argue that if you haven't trained within a specific Gracie lineage, you don't have complete BJJ. I've also heard at least one story about an instructor being smeared by the Gracie family for focusing on no-Gi jiu jitsu. So I think it's disingenuous to suggest BJJ is free of these issues. Personally, I have the chillest BJJ teacher and great training partners. But the horror stories are out there if you're willing to hear them.
You can see the toxic aspects in the online community. I think this video ignores that and should address since we may not be directly exposed to it at a gym doesn't mean that it isn't occuring somewhere else.
Interesting video. But to be honest, one of the things that turns me off with Rokas's SBG is how Matt disses traditional martial arts. I hate how Matt says "this doesn't work" or "this works" when some of the traditional martial arts schools have done just fine in MMA (John Hackleman, for example, is a self-described traditional martial artist who was the head trainer for both Chuck Lidell and Glover Teixeira. GSP and Lyoto Machida come from karate--GSP has mentioned several times that all of his takedown defense timing comes from karate. Ronda Rousey comes from judo. The list goes on.) . Not to mention the fact--and yes, this is a fact--that streetfighting and prizefighting are not the same thing. You can see lots of this "elitism" from SBG on RUclips, including on this very channel. Of course that's not to say that the SBG guys don't know BJJ--their BJJ is very good. But it's kinda ironic to hear complaints about "elitism" coming from a student of one of the most elitist martial arts schools today. Also, it's incorrect to think that all BJJ schools do things the same way and that they've all thrown out tradition. At my BJJ school (which is a large international team that has produced world and ADCC champions), we still line up left to right. We still bow in. If two pairs are rolling and bump into each other, the junior students stop and reset and allow the senior students to continue. It's a show of respect, and it's not a bad thing.
There's this famous recording (not sure if it's from JRE or not) of Rogan and a couple of other guys wallowing in self-satisfaction about how BBJ is the greatest thing ever and calling themeselves - wait for it - "modern day Jedis". Somehow BJJ practitioners are usually the loudest when talking about cultesque features of (pseudo-)traditional schools, while comepletely missing that the joke is on them
@@jaehwan123 I especially agree on your last point. The type of jiu-jitsu I do (German jujutsu) values a lot of those traditions. We line up left to right, wear mostly white gis with minimal patches and bow in. Where I train, there are many additional rules regarding the bow-in: If you need to retie your belt, face away from the instructor, when we go down to kneel during the bow-in, the right leg goes down first and gets up first, during the kneeling, the feet shouldn't be crossed over, it should be silent during the entire bow-in and so on. However, what is not really present where I train is the hierarchy. We call our instructors by their first name and without any title and people with higher belts don't get any special rights. Our instructors also only give advice on doing techniques and not on any other thing. So in the end, I agree that traditional doesn't equal bad as what usually contributes to a martial art not working is strong authority of the instructor, even outside of martial arts which doesn't necessarly come from tradition but from people abusing trust. I also dislike all the BJJ elitism.
I'll be honest... your channel brings confort to my heart! Since I found it, it became so much easier to move on. Our experiences are so similar, both coming from Aikido, and kind of share the same timing. Glad to share this with someone! Tks, again, Rokas!
Same here, watching your channel made me reconsider if i should keep on training aikido or not and if i was really having fun and fulfilling the objective that made me join aikido in the first place. And also that its ok to let go some stuff to do other that you enjoy more.
@@arkhust6775 if you know how to fight and where you can try individual elements step by step, practice aikido, if you know how to fight very well you can stay with aikido ... look for judo or kicboxing and try to use individual elements, treat aikido as "kata", something like in judo / bjj technician practice where you can't train them on a resistance opponent ... sparring / fighting is looking for opportunities, reflexes and something similar to the trained ... aikido (not black belt), muaythai (a lot of sparing, lite filing lilke in movie "Concussion 2015" - not at this time), bjj (some times judo for there sparing) i did... and some basic calisthenic... learn the basics of medicine / body mechanics for rehabilitation ... injuries not avoided ... i have from aikido what i want... for me work...
Having trained and continuing in several "traditional" martial arts (Judo, Taiji, Karate), this seems entirely alien to me. At each dojo the senior students deserved respect because of the simple fact that they were genuinely skilled -- nobody thought they should be respected simply because they wore particular colour belts. Moreover, earning brown and black belts required significantly more than simply "putting the time into punching, kicking, and choreographed forms". In both the Judo and Karate dojo those who wore brown and black belts were required to be good at applying the martial art, something which lower-rank students learn directly during sparring. Indeed in my current Karate dojo more advanced students are expected to consider who they are training with -- but there is a clear duty to select less advanced students in order to help them: the more senior you are, the greater the duty. There is no shame in sitting on the left end of the line -- just like the undergraduate students at my university are not ashamed to be labelled "first year". It is not thought that the people sitting to your right are inherently better in any moral sense. They have likely been training longer, and some of them might have deep enough understanding to help you, but that's it.
I practice Shaolin kung Fu and my teacher has made it extremely clear that your belt and age mean nothing. The respect you give is what really matters. He always says that the belt merely means you've been practicing longer and have more knowledge but that's doesn't correlate to any form of surperiourity.
Hey Rokas, I sometimes hear unfair criticism of Judo. I really think you need to try it out for yourself. It has a lot of cross over with BJJ and it's a super effective martial art. It's just not as trendy and popular as BJJ is at the moment. It's good to learn Judo and wrestling because a lot of BJJ schools neglect it and the practitioners are not good at putting people to the ground to finish the fight.
@@MartialArtsJourney BJJ IS judo. Literally, the rule set is the only difference, one focuses standup and one focuses the ground work. Almost all BJJ techniques exist in Judo. Now current sport judo has some drawbacks, sonce they banned techniques, which target the legs, etc, but honestly that just means the more "traditional" version was just more legit. And as someone who did Judo and does BJJ at the moment, I kind of miss the structure I had, in regards to bowing, adressing the teacher as sensei, student's lining up by rank (makes it faster if anything). That's just good manners/discipline and doesn't take away from the fun or the training itself.
@@Deathskull0001 I don't think that almost all BJJ moves in judo, but what I think is that judo headhunting training is better than what I get taught in BJJ. I think
@@bookknight They're not practised for sure, as sports judo currently is really focused on throws and trips. However, they exist in the kodokan, as in, the moves were invented prior to the Gracies learning them - the popular example being the story behind the kimura.
I think that Nate Diaz is a good example of the major weakness of BJJ. They chose to focus on the ground game, attaining excellence in that area, but in doing so had to sacrifice the throws to have the time. Nate is a good boxer, and good at BJJ, so he can do well on the ground or on his feet, but has to rely on his opponent taking him down to transfer between them. Wrestlers can really show the benefit of being good at the takedowns. Rather than letting your opponent dictate the terms of how you go to the ground, you can use the takedown to set up the submission.
Belt ranks tend to create a cult of personality. I was certain at age 16 that when I received my black belt that the world would change and then it didn't. I was still riding the bus and getting bad grades in school.
Belts or no belt really doesn't matter, from what experience I had through both "traditional" or "modern" martial arts. The club or dojo culture is always the culprit for this, such as the instructor being too prideful to respond correctly to confrontation.
@@hornetc5585 I think that's more a western thing. In the East it's more common to see black belts given to under 18 year olds and for it to mean very little. Because martial arts are often taught in schools. So it's more like saying you played cricket or football or rugby for your school. Then they differentiate more between the dan grades. First dans tend to have imposter syndrome. second dans become over-arrogant over-aggressive. 3rd Dan have the skills but take unnecessary risks. 4th dans are more comfortable like water 5th dans have sunk into the master and later than that involve service to the way and spiritual development something like that. But it means different things depending on the school and dojo. People could leave Japan or Singapore with a simple black belt that had no respect at home and once they arrived in america they became grand masters. But that was the 20th century for ya. I don't think black belts means as much as thy did even in america these days. And in India most people with Karate black belts will be kids with maybe 10 years training who then give up Karate to take up MMA/BJJ. It may take them another five years mind to get their blue belt in BJJ
For all the elitism in traditional martial arts, the elitists in BJJ is the most disconcerting - they never stop rambling on about belts. IMO, because I came from fight sports, gradings/belts is a business construct that leads inevitably to a drip feeding of knowledge, control of knowledge for power and elitism. Humans just don't learn best that way, nature and a natural world presents stimulus and learning opportunities in dynamic ways. As a fighter, I learned from people of all abilities, learnt from every encounter, as much from those with the best skillset as from those with the most limited.
belts and gradings are *most certainly* a business construct, though that doesn't mean they don't have meaning in BJJ, in the sense that they generally represent fairly accurately the skill level of someone, at least inside his geographical area. Because you usually don't get promoted until you demonstrate you can hang out decently with the upper rank people, it's that simple - something that arts without real sparring can't have obviously. I don't think it leads to control of information as you say, never seen people try to protect their secret techniques (which most of us know, aren't a thing in this day and age) - in fact, most people are more likely to help out and provide advice to lower belts the higher in rank they go. Maybe they do it in good faith, maybe they just want to prove they know their rank's share of knowledge, who cares tbh, the net effect is positive in this aspect imo. It *does* occasionally result in some bruised egos if someone misses a promotion they though they deserved, but it's rare. People that chase belts don't usually last long in bjj anyway, because the belts are few and far between, and it just takes too long to become a black belt in most schools for people that aren't truly passionate to reach that point.
i am too latly. big school names like gracie, alliance, 10th planet and lcct all bring a narrow view of what bjj is suppose to be and act very cultish.
Jen Zim Perhaps a similar phenomenon happened with ancient martial arts in which they were proven to work but over time they became “cultish” because they proved themselves to be the best and due to all that arrogance their training was off and corrupted
BBJ is in fact very elitsm. The Shotokan, Chang Ho TKD, Aikido and silat where I train, hirarchy is not more than a hirarchy in any normal club. Even in clubs you have different type of memberships. It is a normal thing in social behaviour. My Aikido teacher was a 3rd dan and professor at military academy. I knew nothing about that before I google him. Just a nice normal person with a black belt.
This was a truly great video on a subject that needs to be covered more often! I recently got into a debate with a Black Belt in my own Organization about this. I was reprimanded for criticizing a view he held, off the mat, that he had presented in public for discussion. I was told I should not criticize a Senior... I explained that we are off the mat and no one is above reproach. On the mat I will respect skill, but even there, if there is an error it needs to be corrected. True respect is humble, realizing that students might have something they can teach you, keep each other in check and on the proper path.
Weirdly enough I trained a bit of aikido but my sensei never did that positioning thing where the more advanced students were on the right and less advanced students on the right, and she was honest that the training wouldn't help win fights and that honestygot me to pressure test stuff and pushed me to learn some wrestling. I definitely found the experience valuable.
Very well said! I have never tried "modern" martial arts and as far as trafitional martial arts go, it is full of this "elitism" mindset. Good job explaining it
After years of wrestling, boxing, various tries of mma, savate etc I had a stroke and doctor told me contact sports are no no. I started training karate and suddenly people who had never even sparred started telling me how to fight. I was dumbfounded, how was this possible? I have sparred with national level champs, competed some and encountered violence in my work. And now some pot bellied office worker tells me nothing I do will work in real situations. Your videos have helped me a lot to figure out the weird fantasy bubbles of traditional martial arts schools. Currently focusing on points karate since it's a sport, not a coreographed act.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience! I know how frustrating these situations are and unfortunately they're universal and happens all across the globe.
Yes...imo it heavily discredits a karate practitioner (especially an instructor) when they have a pot belly. Not body shaming, or saying they don't know their stuff. I just think it makes you look like you don't take your art (or yourself) seriously when part of your craft if you will, is physical fitness.
I am an older man and chose to do a TMA mostly for fitness reasons.....I needed to loose weight and get flexible I had no real intent on one martial art over the other ....so in visiting many schools I just applied the simple test of is he or is he not a culero....(a mexican word for arsehole). This is a human trait and I see it in my career as well as interaction with neighborhood groups etc .....if you are a person who wants to feel superior you will look for a way to exercise that false superiority.....so I understand and accept what you say but I doubt it is as clear cut as you are trying to say .....I deeply respect your journey and your skills and how you are growing as a person but you need to look back with joy as the experiences you had in your aikido life as that was your journey which has taken you to where you are today....you seem rather happy to look back and bash and paint everything now as being perfect ....I am glad you are happy and feel you have found your place but this is a result of the journey .....and remember to apply the culero test to everything ......I myself found a wonderful aikido class and teacher who had helped me achieve all I wanted from martial arts.
Hey, when I was a school teacher and part time MA instructor, parents would ask me what style they should have thier children learn. I always had two suggestions. 1- make sure it's easy to get to and hard to miss driving home. A beginner needs easy access. After they make a personal commitment to train they will travel the world to continue. 2- you are picking a mentor for your child. If you don't like the teacher, or trust them with your child, why would you ever give your child over to them even had they the mythical best system of martial arts?
Thats why I love bjj instructors who rolls with their students. If you are good enough, you might be even able to tap him now and then :) But really, those guys don't tell you they are good, they show you
@@vasilijenicic6806 yeah man, I used to spar with my students. If their hands were down, boom headshot. Not moving, leg sweep. Too close? Hip throw. Of course it was all light, I'm not tryna kill them. I think they learned well that way.
Funny enough, there are members of the grace family who are extremely elitist/cocky. In fact, the patriarchs of bjj were very elitist when they were trying to promote their art. One of the gracies refused to fight sakuraba in his prime because apparently sakuraba didn't have the "warrior spirit". I think you should take a step back and really do some more research into "modern martial arts" community. The elitism isn't as exclusive as you think. You seem to by trying to compensate for the bad experience you had with aikido. It's kind of disappointing because you yourself have become somewhat of an elitist. All those traditions such as bowing are just that... They're traditions. This does not take away the experience of fighting or the art. The bow in the east is the "equivalent" of a handshake in the west... So according to your mindset, should handshakes be questioned now in the west? PS I come from a modern combat background (Muay Thai and boxing) so there's no animosity here in terms of mma vs tma. Just very disappointed in you rokas.
"Just very disappointed in you Rokas" is a strong phrase. But don't worry I read comments and I hear people. I will do some digging into elitism in BJJ and MMA.
@@generationace3032 Muay thai and kyokushin kai and the okinawan karate never modernized much but were effective from beginning because they are training hard not like the othe traditional martial arts. There are fake traditional martial arts around who are destroying the reputation of the other traditional martial arts. Please look at the videos of Muay thai, kyokushin kai and okinawan karate. Also Judo is a traditional martial arts and effective.
I hope I don't offend when I say I don't trust handshakes, which are most often offered gratuitously by exactly those people I have the least reason to trust. A failed method of courtesy has been suborned to the needs of infectious, contagious, disease. In other words, handshakes are a great way to spread disease. They tell you nothing about the character of the persons involved.
How about elitist and abusive Black Belts? When I was in my first month of Aikido, I went out and bought every book I could find to reinforce what I was learning in class. One book I read said take advantage of any opportunity to work with black belts to increase your learning and understanding. So this day finally comes. I was practicing techniques on the open mat after class and a black belt approached me to work with him. Of course I jumped at the chance. The first fall I took should have been my last. He threw me with so much force that I literally slid across the mat on my break fall. I didn't want him to think I was weak so I got up quickly and proceeded to take harder and more forceful falls. After several more falls all I wanted was for it to end, but I stubbornly held on to the words of that book, believing I was getting an "advanced" lesson. At some point several more blackbelts began to watch. On one particular irimi nage throw I've never done, (I was too new) I was not yet trained on the ukemi, which required rolling out. Instead, I crashed hard to the mats directly on my shoulder and heard a pop/crunch in my collar bone. I surprised even myself with the scream I let out and the gathering blackbelts came to pick me up. I was thankful when one of them said I think you're good for today to get me out of this session. It took over a month for that shoulder to heal. I've encountered several black belts like this at several schools. They're everywhere and they piss me off. As a kohei, we faithfully entrust our safety and trust in the sempai. In an art like Aikido, we cannot resist, counter, or retaliate. Unless we excuse ourselves or the head teacher steps in, we have to endure this. It got to the point where when we'd see certain black belts approaching us, or joining our drill line, people would move over to another line until I was stuck 1 on 1 with Mr. Sadistic. Yes I'm stubborn and don't want to show I'm weak, even when I get my ass kicked. So many times I wish I could just blast them full on in the face! This is the type of elitism I can't stand. They act as if they are untouchable and constantly made me feel like if I'm going to get my ass kicked anyway, at least let me fight back to have a chance. There is no one to humble them in this setting.
When I recieved my black belt in taekwondo I was told that it only means that I have sufficient knowlegde of the basic techniques in tdk. I think that was them trying to humble me.
But they were right. I received mine as well. They told me it's like a High School Diploma. A basic vocabulary. Hardly 3rd year French. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of pride in my accomplishment and working through the injuries I overcame to get it, but it's still going to take many years for me to feel "fluent" enough to depend on my skills. We need to stay humble and keep learning!
The ego needs an enemy in order to survive, the ego only exists in opposition. Do not compare yourself to someone else, learn from them and then you love to learn from them so you love to live your life. The circle becomes full
Bang on about the lack of pressure testing in TMA. I remember training with an aikido instructor who was a complete shit to his student, really badly bullied this vulnerable student and just bragged about himself
I can relate to that. I was a 9 year old fat boy when I started learning karate and my instructor used to beat the shit out of me just for fun, I used to get bruises on my skin and he used to make fun of my weight in the class and the advanced students bullied me and made fun of me, I used to cry. Yet I stayed there for 6 years and gained by black belt. I didn't see any end to their elitism so I left that dojo and quit martial arts because of my dispise for these elitists. I'm glad there are others like me as well.
I agree with this idea of elitism but I'd like to say there's actually some good in tma. Also I've come across elitism in both bjj and Muay thai. I've trained in both tma and modern martial arts, karate and Muay Thai. One thing I appreciate about my karate instructors was that they actually kept an eye out for their students when sparring. They knew who was experienced (not just in belt ranking but just overall natural talent) and not as experienced and they encouraged everyone to spar with anyone regardless of experience. And they would always emphasize the more experienced fighters to be responsible for the safety of their partners. When I trained in Muay Thai however, my instructors didn't care too much. Great overall learning experience but there were times when some experienced fighters were purposely headhunting, even on the inexpereinced/new trainees. But the instructors didn't do shit nor emphasize responsbility onto experienced fighters. There have been people who quit my classes because of head hunters. And my Muay Thai instructors didn't do anything to ensure safety of newers trainees. TBH I think one of the newer trainees even got a minor concussion, and they just wanted to learn, not pursue a fighting career like these wannabe fighting headhunters. Don't get me wrong, I love Muay thai, it's still my basis martial art even though I'm participating in karate at the same time, but theres a good amount of respect I have for my karate classes compared to my Muay Thai classes. Shit can go both ways to both tma and modern ma's but there are pros and good things that tma can teach. Rokas I think you're throwing a little too much shade on tma's without diving too deep into the benefits that they provided, while also ignoring the horror stories and cons of modern ma's. I think you should continue your journey in modern martial arts while also giving tma's (not aikido) another shot down the road, but these kinds of videos calling out elitism in tma's (while ignoring elitism in modern martial arts) is quite hypocritical and honestly missing the entire point. You had a couple of bad experiences in aikido, doesn't mean every tma school is like that. Just like you had a couple of good experiences in modern martial arts, doesn't mean all are like that.
That's one thing I can say of TMA (TKD for me...) are the values and mutual respect they foster. Every school is different and the recruiting tactics of Karate when I was younger (Sensei having you lie on the floor and stepping on your stomach...) were questionable enough to question the art's ethics. Now that I am older, I can see individuals and not broadly paint the organization. In other arts such as Boxing, respect is more earned than conferred due to the day in and day out training and sparring. I think anyone entering the Arts should strive for a healthy balance between the two. It's the best way to build character.
This is not unique to TMA. A exceptional genius in one endeavor may assume his opinions and observations are equally qualified in areas outside his expertise. Those he trains may also adapt this assumption. Everyone has weaknesses and blind spots. Unfortunately this may mislead those who trust and follow them.
my HEMA club has something similar to ranking students, we have 4 "ranks" total (Novice, Experienced, Senior, Scholar) the newbies (novices) are cluttered on the left, and the more experienced fencers (experienced, senior, and scholar practitioners) are cluttered on the right side of the line, we have 3-4 instructors, one keeps records and the daily roll call, one instructs the newbies, one instructs the more experienced fencers, the last instructor goes back and forth between the two. thus dividing the gym in two between the newbies and advanced fencers. if there arent total beginners at the time of practice, the gym is not divided. after our practice, drills, and the learning stuff, the gym is used for sparring. now onto the ranks: Novice: the beginners, these guys learn the fundamentals like guards, footwork, how to handle the sword, how to cut, how to thrust, how to defend, and a couple basic techniques. they dont spar just yet, instead they do drills, try to shape their form, learn to engage their core, and develop some muscle. this stage takes about 2 months. Experienced: now that they have learned the fundamentals, they start to learn more advanced techniques, collect some basic protective gear, start sparring. this is when the fun really starts. Senior: these guys have now become serious fencers, they know very advanced techniques, theyve developed muscle groups, structure and muscle memory, theyve collected their kit including their 'feather sword', started intense full contact sparring, and theyve most likely started attending events and seminars. Scholar: these guys are seniors, but theyve also read the manuscripts thoroughly, studied them, and theyve reached their peak in terms of technique efficiency and finesse. these guys are now even more serious, theyve started earning medals, joining the very large competitions. they will break you. ^ you only notice your progression well after youve ranked up, the ranks arent symbolised, theyre just there to keep track of your progress
What is the difference beetween taekwondo and training for ibjjf? People wearing traditional clothes, they are obsessed with the color of their fashion accesory. And technically you can win by a knock out/submission, but most of the time it is just point game.
No difference. It's just that bjj can be used for fighting, other then competing in a sport. Taekwondo is far more difficult to use in a fight against people who know how to defend.
elitism does not belong only to TMA even if it tends to be magnified by the behaviors you describe and that are typically associated with TMA. As far as Aikido is concerned, I used to say: here in the west there are people that want to be more japanese than the japanese.
Mixed Martial Arts comes from Traditional Martial Arts. There shouldn't be hate between the two rather harmony. Also the class structure of TMA is a formal environment meant as a military prep school for young people entering the service.
Yes Rokas, traditional martial arts have problems and modern martial have also their own. As you say staying aware and always questioning oneself while exposed to different experiences is essential.
“Old world cultures cherish grace in defeat because they know we all lose in the end. New world cultures remain confident the can keep destiny at bay, perhaps forever.’
The definition of 'Traditional' spans a History of different Universes / Dimensions too. Actually, experienced Masters will tell you it depends on the Art itself not a non-linear Historical placement or emphasis.
A lot of us like the customs of TMAs such as the uniforms, the bowing, the forms (kata) as well as the emphasis on respect, awareness, and non-violence. My favourite art would combine those customs with a mix of many different styles from several cultures and time periods. However, in that hypothetical martial art, teachers would be very honest about the limitations of their own eclectic style because there's only so much one can learn in one lifespan.
Reminds me a little bit of Ramsey Dewey phenomenon, he is a great fighter and very experienced in the ring with a wealth of information in that field. But people are starting to look to him like he is a god when it comes to everything outside of the ring and in life, when it comes to everything from [not] drinking even herbal tea, to not calling anyone who doesn't share close genetics with you family. It's scary to see how quickly someone can be thrown [unwillingly maybe?] into a "god" position, just because they're a great martial artist.
I find this highly interesting, I practiced Karate which would also be considered traditional and my experience was the polar opposite. It seemed to me that humility was part of the tradition. The black belts I have practiced with were the most humble people I have met. It was very common to hear phrases like "don't worry about the color of the belt, it does nothing but hold your jacket" or similar attitudes. Everyone was also super open minded about experiences from other martial arts.
the ironic thing is the non-asian schools are more "traditional" than the schools with asian teachers. I don't blame them, the arrogance of the Asian taught teachers make them have a lot more to "prove." Though in my experience at least in major cities, a lot of the schools in the "hood" tend to be more effective in practical fighting due to the nature of where the teacher and students came from and they do not fear "losing face" when sparring outside of their styles to learn and adapt.
It is all about the journey, humble submission, respect, pleasantness, manners, willingness to learn and putting into practise the learnings to any teacher who is willing to give up their time and impart their hard earned knowledge and experiences of teaching methods and techniques. It is the essence of any learning whether it be learning to drive, fly, sailing, playing sports, trade disciplines, performing heart surgery etc. or martial arts. All must have willing students devoid of arrogance, stuborness and lonewolf lawlessness. Willing to apply themselves, put time and effort into training and learning. Everyone wants to be a great concert musician but no-one wants to put in the hard yards- the 8 hours a day or more of practice needed to acheive levels of skills unavailable to the non worthy and non initiated. Elitism is a motivator to inspire one to climb the ladder and prove to be worthy . Removing elitism would change the dojo into a church hall aerobics class of bum sniffing leotard lackeys. I am happy to start at the bottom and work up. we need to build strong safe foundations to build our techniques on to avoid injury to self and others. A black belt means you have begun your journey to master self. If we want to be the best martial artists and defeat fellow man then just invest in c4, rocket launchers, drones, tanks and expensive state of the art stun guns, rail guns, satelite technology, intelligence etc. etc. Old outdated fighting methods won't save us but their disciplines will. then we must have a disciplined army with rules, training and dare i say it..... elitism ....yes elitism. basic military training strips away everything and builds from the ground up crack elite marines, French Foreign Legion, SAS , Green Berrets etc. etc. elitism has it's place. Elitism weeds out the non committed half arsed. but if lulled into a false sense of security then pride goes before a fall Does poo tin know humbleness, humility, empathy and respect?? Martial arts have great benefits as a way of life for fitness, balance, mobility, co-ordination, brotherhood, family, health, breathing, agility, learning how to fall without hurting oneself, learning biomechanics, calmness and mastering fear and self. One- on- one competitive attack sports lack realism in the face of a multiple attack. Rokas i have only begun my journey and from what little i have seen, you have earned the right to question and seek and i wish you well in your journey, it is nice seeing your videos and skill levels growing. I appreciate and admire your humbleness, respect, honesty and willingness to share your experiences. I wish you all the very best brother !!! and look forward to seeing your progress. Domo arigato gozaimus !!!!
I remember taking Tang So Doo and having to bow when I saw my black belt instructors outside of the dojo. I would be at work and if I saw my instructors (Even the ones from other dojos that didn't teach me on a regular basis.) I worked as a cashier and my instructors expected me to leave the register and bow to them. My boss saw this and wanted to know what I was doing and why. One time it was very busy during the Christmas shopping season and the line was huge. I didn't leave the register to bow. Next karate class I was yelled at in front of everybody. I was so humiliated, I tried to explain it was busy and I didn't want the other customers in line to be angry. My instructor said he didn't want to hear any excuses, I was being disrespectful! I had to do pushups on my knuckles! This incident was one of the reasons why I quit taking karate.
Even when I was at a bar or the movies. I'd have to bow and speak to them. No matter if I was with my friends or boyfriend. I'd have to ignore my friends and pay attention to my instructors. This one time I was at a bar and my instructor was lecturing that I was drinking too much. Acted like he was my dad. I got annoyed and I was a little tipsy and I dumped a pitcher of beer on his head. Boy did he get pissed! Luckily I had a lot of friends with me and they stopped him from coming after me. My bouncer friend threw my instructor out and banned him from the bar cause he always hassled me.
I started my fighting with boxing and gained wrestling as a way to supplement my training. No matter how good of a boxer I would become (unless I trained for a really long time/hired a professional trainer), it would only get me so far. The same is true with wrestling. The same is true with any combat based sport. No matter how much sparring I'd do, I'd still be limited to size. I have a friend, who even in doing BJJ, as a white belt, easily and handily defeats anyone below purple simply based on his size. This is while maintaining BJJ rules. There is this misnomer that all is well if you've got sparring. Now having said that, I joined a Kuk Sool Won school. KSW is an awesome martial art, it mixes and positions so many things together. So much so, that my friend's MMA fight trainer had received his black belt in KSW and my friend considered it "very deadly". However, KSW does not give you any resistance until at least brown belt. My Master Instructor had even said, "up until black belt all we're teaching you is how to train. At black belt that is when the training really begins". Fast forward, I join a Wing Chun school. By month two, we're doing resistance training. Often I have "sparred"(meaning full energy, full contact) with my older brothers in the system. They dice me. I've brought other people, they can handily and easily dice them, regardless of size or skill. We have a school that is very humbling. My skills are far above where they would have been without this. Again, it depends on the school. I have been in McDojo MMA schools. Also, we call it full contact but in reality, as i showed a friend of mine, if we went to the ground and he sprawled out like this, his groin is open, his throat is open. It is not full contact. Not like the way people believe it to be. You must be able to fail and shown how it would fail in the street, regardless of style. There are just different ways of looking at the same thing. Martial art styles are a weapon. We say they're for self defense, but they exist to "hit without getting hit". This is a weapon. Some weapons are great at somethings, while being lackluster in others. Not me trying to make a statement, just trying to present how I see it. Thanks!
The quality of the instructor is so important. I've heard something along the lines of: a good leader isn't marked by his ability to control his students, but by his ability to train his students how to control themselves; if the students feel lost or begin to conflict because the leader is gone (because they are dependent on him), then his role as a leader is questionable.
I liked the video because he's a westerner who accurately rated Confucianism. A few issues with the rest of the video, but the tone is quite reasonable and I feel that he has a sincere relationship with his martial arts. His old traditional school must have been lacking if he is so disillusioned by it, I would like to hear a bit about what he practiced before doing mma.
I practiced karate for more than 6 years and I totally agree with "advanced" students bullying students lower than them. Also a lot of favouritism shown towards certain students by the instructor.
It's unfortunate that Elitism goes on, I've experienced several times and not just within MA. Ego obviously plays a large part which is another topic in itself. Certain cultures and traditions don't translate well from the far East to the West and modern day. The other aspect is the the way people learn. Teaching methods have changed and developed over the years, and unfortunately many people are stuck in the past. As you mentioned people blindly follow without knowing why and this is where the problems arise. Tradition can be fine, providing people can understand the purpose of what they are doing and why. This unfortunately is something that happens in everyday life. Most people like feeling comfortable and don't want to rock the boat. Change is something people in general seem to fear as they would rather stick to what's familiar.
Another aspect of the elitism is that the instructors don't feel the need to answer your questions. Communication is only from master to student. Only when I took karate classes from an American instructor that I was explained why we're doing this movement, and why an alternate movement won't work in certain situations. Never got that explained from a traditional asian instructor. That's why when my grandkid grows older, I'll only look for dojos with Western educated instructors.
The more advanced students take more responsibility and the lead in drills. But, I NEVER had a sense of my Sihings being elitist towards me and I NEVER act like an elitist towards my Sidai. It's recognized that some students have a level of knowledge that I don't yet possess. So, they're helping me get there.
I practice Iaido, which is very traditional. Its also an art with a smaller number of students across the world, so its common to have seminars with high dan Japanese practitioners visit. We have a close connection to Japan, and its easier to keep the traditions without the egos impacting it
I think it comes down more to the people and the training place . But the black belt and the superiorty thing is on spot there are many black belts that behave that way. ( and many that don't ) I guess if everyone trains hard and help all the ranks everyone understands their current position and ability plus their sensei always behaving as an student ( mindset wise ) there can be a lot of improvement .
Toxic instructors exist in martial arts where the systems did not weed them out before they became instructors. At some point the most accessible traditional martial arts became focused on physical technique and the superficial aspects of cultures of origin instead of the deeper personal development and character building emotional intelligence of tradition. The superficial notions of culture are easily confused for ego based structures to protect incapable instructors because that is what toxic wannabes use them for. It is seen in this video through the example given about the way students of Japanese arts line up based on time in training. This is a tradition that comes from the days of dueling, when a person might pretend to be a student to attack the teacher in front of his class. In old school Budo ambush and counter ambush are common aspects of the training. The reason the more advanced students sit on the front row and to the right of the school is so they can protect the teacher when his back is turned and when the instructor is facing the class, the more trusted students are on his weak side and outside of his sword draw arc. The lessor known and less trusted students are on the instructors strong side and at the end of his sword arc when he is facing the class. This is in case the lessor known student should try to ambush the teacher. Not about a hierarchy, but rather a practical strategy.
Daaaaamn man. I am watching your videos since its once popped up in suggested vids. I really appreciate you looking at both side of a coin not only about aikido, but at any topic you make a video about. You talk about both sides. I really like that. And now I am subscribed)
Very nicely said, as with all things in martial arts, and in life, an honest balance is very important. The balance between following and respecting the traditions and not getting too involved beyond what they are there to teach. In the same manner some traditional Dojos will focus far too heavily on Kata or Waza and miss out on the pressure testing of sparring, randori or even Mushin.
You raise some very valid points! To some degree, though, it also depends on the particular school you go to. I did Aikido for a few years, and even though the school was very traditional, the environment was very good natured and supportive. I also did a little bit of Karate, and in that school, the bullying element was far more evident, and it occasionally even created unsafe situations. The difference? The Aikido school had a large number of high-level Japanese blackbelts, while the Karate school has only a few. So competition to get high-level validation was more extreme, while in the Aikido school, there were too many good black belts to see them as royalty, they were teachers and helpers. At the same time, there is definitely a retarding element in the Confucian school structure to stop newbies from advancing too fast, which can be very disheartening to some students.
brother, I came back to post this after watching this video a few days ago and thinking about it ever since. Even though as long time martial arts fan and practicioner, I was very aware of what you said (one single sparring in BJJ is enough to realize this), you did hit the nail on the head here and put it into words perfectly. 100% signed. I did Hapkido (basically TKD+Aikido) for many years and even back in the day, I did not understand certain things about the gym culture. Why do black belts stop fighting out of the blue and go back to a teacher only role? Did they forget how to fight? Also the shutting people up with authority part and the mystical reasons for why what is bad and other things are mandatory is simply a load of BS. Met some of my former mates (and they were family, without a doubt) and they still have troubles accepting that as a fact. "oh dude, by now I know all the black belt techniques, those are the ones that really hurt" "you sure want to spar, I might hurt you" "if you do that oblique kick, that guy most likely will never walk again" "no bro, you just can't use those joint manipulations, they are too dangerous" man.... that makes me mad. Maybe I should visit those old buddies for some sparring but bet your ass they will use rule sets to deny you from doing anything and claim in a real fight I'd be dead. I remember in 2010 or so, one of the guys I was friends with from another school just went right through all of his opponents in the tournament and was placed akwardly bad, even though it was very obvious to everyone, that he dismanteled all of his opponents, up to 1st kub master-students. The reasoning from the comitee was bad technique (he used hooks and thai kicks additionally, but everything was crisp and clean. Dude is a freak and a successful teacher himself for a decade now. Needless to say he stopped Hapkido after that incident and rightfully so) Then I remember, two of the older black belts who I kind of looked up to, they were telling stories how they battled kickboxer and Thaiboxer and what not and they did not sparr in the end because they could not agree on a rule set. What a joke. They probably don't even realize they were full of excuses. The thing with the 3 attackers at the black belt exam was a thing for us too, but honestly, even if they really tried to hurt their mate (which they never would, they don't really attack. they are friends) - what's the point of drilling for 10 years just in order to have a single practical aspect later on. I think our black belts even were blindfolded... I am not sure though, you were only allowed to join if you were invited by the masters and were near black belt yourself. stupid elitism, lol. *Remember this, guys: in a real situation you will always fall back to the first things you learned and drilled the most.* I can't stress this enough. That is why you should have a quality instructor from the get go. I trained a shit ton of techiques from other systems like Muay Thai and Boxing and stopped doing most of the TMA techniques years ago but I still fall back on some of those from the past (I was a bouncer, inspired by Geoff Thompson's book 'fear', so I have references). I am glad that not everything is bad, so the front kick, followed by a straight is what my auto pilot plays off when my brain shuts down in a fight or flight situation. I did observe this a few times. That works fine with some follow up when needed. Imagine I spent all my teens and twenties in some voodoo techniques, I'd be pissed as hell. This vid is worth multiple thumbs up. Love your channel and your honesty. Also, there is nothing wrong with martial ARTS, it is a form of art and culture, just like dancing. Just don't fool yourself or anyone else. Took me weeks to get my younger buddy to pick a serious martial art. I talked him into Muay Thai instead of Taekwondo. That makes me oddly happy, cus I know very well that he will thank me in a couple of years... haha. All the best to you. Oz.
@@byronjuarez656 I said effective combat. Jk, you're right, that is capoeira, but I think it's doubtful how effective it really is since I've never heard of capoeira techniques being used in MMA.
@@SpitefulAZ To be fair, Anderson Silva used the Jenga (sp?) sidestep before but Andy could make anything work. He was once cornered by Steven Segal (Aikido!) I tried Capoeira before and imo it was extremely difficult to learn b/c the movements are so unorthodox and indirect. As for effectiveness, I think Capoeira works vs other strikers but not so much vs Wrestling or grappling. I've heard a BJJ student mock Capoeira before but Relson Gracie corrected him, saying "It works." It might be a Brazilian pride thing but the respect was there.
I do judo and have done some bjj and the sparring is basically the same the difference is judo focuses more on throws and take downs and less on ground but there's still a good amount of ground also in judo after green belt you have to win in competition to get your belts it is traditional but it's also very heavily sport focused with a lot of sparring and everyone spars everyone
Great video. Helpful insights. Bu there is also another type of elitism related to class, which often is subsumed in some tma through fees, uniform and seminars a student is expected to pay for. It can be very expensive.
This is your best video on this subject so far....and I think you finally answered my question of, 'If a traditional martial art pressure tests what is it?'. Specifically I took Karate with an instructor who was pressure testing and not just through kumite, it kind of resembled Krav Maga, except probably not as 'severe', like a Krav Maga Light. He also taught Judo separately but I think you would characterize this as an anomaly not the 'norm'. I still find your videos interesting on this subject, as what you are describing is more about group dynamics in a way than martial arts. For example, many people will leave one church for another because of the organizational structure. In many ways, traditional martial arts resembles traditional religion...
Rokas, you are right on the mark. I train Wing Chun, and we suffer from all that in our association. Hell, just check my byline. But that's changing in some schools. Guys like Alan Orr are taking Wing Chun concepts, mixing them with MMA and pressure testing the result. Some of it works. I still train the old way, but at least I tell my couple of remaining students to test everything they learn, and please, call me by my first name, or ..."coach". Been in this since the 70s, and frankly, I've had it with all the "sifu" crap.
Systema practitioner here. I'm very fortunate because i've found a group of nice and experienced people, my teacher is just some years older than me and we like to mock each other during every training session, he also has a nice broad experience, with boxing, budo and other stuff. For like 4 years there was this 60yo guy, he's also a teacher in a different style of systema, budo and tkd. I've learned a lot from them, especially from their tales about over self confident "masters" and their students. And for my personal experience i've encountered a bunch of thai/kick boxer and TMA practitioners. I think that the problem is the frog in the well and the dunning-kruger effect. I don't know if you've heard about the story of the frog in the well, TL;DR is a frog who lives in a well (duh) and thinks that all the water he sees is the greatest amount possible, even when a turtle explains what an ocean is. The same principle applies to the martial arts, if you keep practicing the same array of techniques without other experiences you start to think that the world starts and ends with your style. The dunning-Kruger effect is a known psychological effect of a cognitive bias of illusory superiority, and this is a key point to keep in mind when dealing with elitists in martial arts. Simply speaking they don't want to even think that their time was wasted and there's a lot of idealization instilled in the minds of a lot of teachers where their style is the stronger. TL;DR You're an elitist when you' ass hasn't been kicked by 3-4 different styles
I will also say that you are slightly sipping the cool aid in regards to bjj and combat sports. I’ve been following your journey for a bit and it’s been really enjoyable watching the evolution. There are plenty of bjj belt wearers who think that bjj can handle any situation, which is only true if you cross train in other arts to supplement what could be called a “fight” (something so situational it can’t really be quantified) As a judo black belt and bjj brown belt, let me also say that traditional arts vary widely. Judo and kendo, for example, incorporate intense pressure testing every practice session with sparring after technique training. whereas some Kung fu style might never. Would you call them both traditional arts? I think that within traditional arts some are much more connected to reality than others, and they shouldn’t be disregarded. Thanks for a thought provoking video!
Having trained in both TMA and now BJJ I believe most problems are born out of “ insecurity “ in simple terms fighting arts that are based if fighting competition rarely have to question effectiveness. A wrestler knows exactly what he can do as does a boxer ( BJJ , Muay Thai etc ) as a young man in KUGB Shotokan the fighting squad could ALL fight and did so in open competition , same when I moved to kickboxing . In short insecurity which often heavily enforces ritual and the fantasy of “ deadly technique “ ( utter rubbish - I got lost in the as a young man ) is based on lack of a trial proven fighting ability . I still love all the arts , just an old man’s( 52 ) point of view . OSS 🥋🙏🏻❤️
Great video brah. You hit the nail on the head. I studied Judo from 4 to 15. I then wrestled. Then I joined the military and served as a martial arts instructor but I never got my black belt. I was just one belt shy. When I returned home and found a school. The school wanted to change the way I fought to match their ideal. I was drinking the Kool aide but my wife wasn't. I did my research thanks to youtube and decided to leave the organization. So it happens. You just have to understand how to watch out for it.
Martial Arts Journey: Warns about the danger of generalizing. Also Martial arts journey: Hey, I'm gonna make a video that completely generalizes martial arts schools! Me: Most of these are just signs of a bad school.
I have had a couple students do that and come to me to ask questions about their life and how to deal with certain things, most often I refer them to a professional on that topic, be it an MD. to the proper teacher. Trying to be more than you are will get you in trouble for sure. Encouraging questions by all and practical training on hands, learning to be hit and not be afraid to be hit so you are not flinching and much more are LOST to modern arts claiming to be Traditional. I prefer the term "Old School" as those masters still learn and never stop humbling themselves. Egos and arrogance lead to more often bad things in life and loss of friends etc. Honey will always get you future than Vinegar I was always told.
Having practiced Iaido and Kendo for nearly 20 years now, I will say that respect and discipline are indeed pivotal to proper martial arts practice. I must point out that I personally have never had a master who advised me on marriage or business, or anything else outside martial arts practice for that matter. I think that maybe you had some really bad luck with choosing dojos in your youth. That being said, the most valid point you make is that we should always maintain out common sense; that is absolutely true.
That was a nice essay. I mostly agree, and I think it's important for all traditional schools to consider giving up some of their traditions, if they want to teach the general public. Traditional martial arts schools don't really train units of soldiers anymore, not even in their countries of origin. One needs to go the military or a police academy for that. I mean, ways to easily keep class organized are great, but ways to quickly inflate an ego are not necessary.
BJJ of today isn't what it began as. It's an effective combination of the best of the martial arts. They kick strike and grapple. It's effective in competition and SD. OSU and respect for the evolution of the martial arts and sciences. 🐯
Hi, I don't know if this is of interest, but it would be nice to see you interview Iain Abernethy on his thoughts about practical karate and the roll of kata. 🥋 I have seen your other interview, for this, I would like a interview on what traditional martials arts have to do to keep up in an ever changing environment and what traditional martial arts have to offer if done right. 🥋 I would find it interesting since you mentioned pressure testing in karate, and Iain have taken a different approach to it all than most other karate instructors. 🥋
Whenever you have a belt system it will signify who is more "superior" including in BJJ ... it is when the "superior" dude starts being superior in other fields then it becomes wrong
Its real! There is a racist side of it too as many black and brown people experience it from Asian and white teachers. We sometimes do it too each other too as black and brown people. My martial arts experience has been almost entirely beem from the prospective of a step child like experience as most of my instructor family and friends trained with them so i would constantly get the scraps. I was never discourage as im a asshole and in due time most if the family drop out and i was left when the new students came on. The worse experience was probably at the BJJ and Muay Thai school they hated that i trained already and would constantly kick me out for not being a victim or whipping board. I empty my cup but wouldnt let them abuse me as they tried to on many occassions. I made friends with them when the plan backfired and i show mercy and let them go. When i finally learn how to defend there technique they kick me out permanently. There isnt much room for free thinking as most instructor have to keep face and if you even by accident up show them you have to go. Funny thing is i pride myself in being a discipline student
Honestly it depends on the martial art. Boxing and TKD practitioners tend to be more humble, but god are karate and bjj people absolutely insufferable in my experience.
Is hapkido an effective martial arts, I’ve done taekwondo for four years (quitted) boxing and kick boxing and I am a noobie at BJJ, I’ve asked around if it is and all I got was all martial arts are effective in a fight which is not true ( examples being aikido and tai chi ) I just had an argument that not all martial arts are not for self defense, I enjoy watching ur videos even though I was aware of some martial arts not being effective as others. It’s good to see ur perspective on martial arts.
I chose this video to resubscribe, because I think it addresses my my main concern I was having with your channel awhile ago. The video where you challenged people to debate you on a video seemed like an attempt to justify yourself on an arbitrary means that gave yourself the privilege of forum. The video where you talked to that one teacher in the cafe who tried to use some philosophy and his position in martial arts to disparage AllLivesMatter and non-conservative, that was him using his elite sense of self to be reductive another social perspective which he was not an authority on (not a blackbelt in politics). This video gave me hope that you actually do mean to follow through with the demeanor of the channel to be open to and question everything, rather than forming ego around being egoless and "rational."
Tbf head instructors at traditional places are usually old men who maybe used to be good at sparring but now even if they wanted too can't kick higher than shin level
In my experience hierarchical behaviour is rampant in Jiu-Jitsu. I think the pressure-testing aspect of the sport regulates its a bit but it is still often awful.
in a martial arts were teknic is constantly testet in sparing there is no need to discuss what is wrong or right, if it works it works. also in a martial arts were you spar a lot you need to be friendly or else you wont have any friends to play with.
Sorry but you have a misunderstanding about the sempai/kohai relationship. This idea permeates Japanese society and is not just in martial arts. The concept is that someone senior to you is a source of guidance and they are respected because they have been where you are now. Someone senior to you pulls you up, and he is likewise pulled up by someone senior to him. It is not elitist at all, because everyone is senior to someone and junior to someone else. Everyone helps each other in an upward path. Unfortunately, you were exposed to a perverted version of this and I have seen it too. Good video!
Sorry you had a bad experience. Where I train, myself and other black belts love working with the inexperienced. I prefer working with them at seminars.
You tackled an important issue for me. I recently had a Problem with my sabumnim because I behaved like he was Master of everything. Therefore I put him In an uncomfortable position. Undue subordination can be dysfunctional and disrespectful too. Im glad he is close to beeing a zen Master already, so the lesson was relatively easy on me to learn. With a Shitty Master, I'd have had set myself up for abuse.
Great video Rokas! I'm always so glad I can get a fresh perspective from you. By the way from what movie/tv series is the clip in the beginning of the video of the guy in the black gi?
Gearóid Éamonn Ocslaigh no idea I legit googled guy who plays Mark Zuckerberg since I recognized him in the clip and this popped up. Looks like a comedy from what the trailer showed.
I thought that was Jesse Eisenburg but my eyesight is bad so i wasn't sure if it really was him or not. I'll go watch the film and tell you if it's good or not😁
Elitism in traditional martial arts? Last time I checked it was Gracie Jiu Jitsu and MMA that claims to be superior to everything else, I never heard this from Bujinkan or Aikido or Karate.
Aikido isn't considered a "traditional" martial art it is classified as a gendai (or modern) martial art. Belts are actually rare in koryu/ traditional martial arts, the belt system got started by Judo and spread to other arts, or the kyu/dan system. The sempai/kohai system is ingrained in Japanese culture in general not just martial arts. What you are describing is merely a difference between how westerners view western verse asian culture when it comes to martial arts. Judo, kendo, some karate, are gensai, or modern and not necessarily traditional. Given this how exactly are you defining the word "traditional martial art".
The "elitism" you're talking about stems from a form of military hierarchy. These arts were training to aid a person in protecting themselves, their family, and their country. I modern day, if the instructor seems to misuse their position or overstep their bounds, that's on the individual. I trained TKD for several years and I found our instructor put a heavy burden on the black belts to help lead the classes. We trained outside of the normal class times and spent the classes supervising and helping others. Didn't really feel elite. I see more elitist mentality from MMA practitioners looking down on tradition marital arts. I've trained Martial arts for 18 years and I have been training at an MMA gym for the past 4 years. I hear the guys talk shit all the time about other martial arts. A backkick to the liver has been known to change their minds a lit though.
I practice MMA and karate. I think the black belt is the starting point to learning.
Very true. We were always taught getting a black belt means that one knows their basics. Now the real training starts.
The black belt used to be the only belt. Other belts are marketing stunts
@@موسى_7 I do not disagree with that. There are rumors that it started with a white belt that stained itself to black. There are others that it was white to black and blue and green were added. Not sure. I am certain that it is a marketing gimmick.
I practice both traditional and mixed martial arts, and elitism definitely isn't unique to TMAs. It all depends on the culture of the individual school. At my main gym, none of my teachers ask to be called master/sensei/sifu/guru/etc., and that does a lot to set the tone for the rest of us.
But I have definitely encountered elitism in MMA, and ESPECIALLY in BJJ. With all due respect, I think you may be sipping the jiu jitsu koolaid to some extent.
It's great that you've had good BJJ teachers and training partners, but BJJ in general is full of gate keeping and elitist attitudes. I've seen people argue that if you haven't trained within a specific Gracie lineage, you don't have complete BJJ. I've also heard at least one story about an instructor being smeared by the Gracie family for focusing on no-Gi jiu jitsu.
So I think it's disingenuous to suggest BJJ is free of these issues.
Personally, I have the chillest BJJ teacher and great training partners. But the horror stories are out there if you're willing to hear them.
You can see the toxic aspects in the online community. I think this video ignores that and should address since we may not be directly exposed to it at a gym doesn't mean that it isn't occuring somewhere else.
Interesting video. But to be honest, one of the things that turns me off with Rokas's SBG is how Matt disses traditional martial arts. I hate how Matt says "this doesn't work" or "this works" when some of the traditional martial arts schools have done just fine in MMA (John Hackleman, for example, is a self-described traditional martial artist who was the head trainer for both Chuck Lidell and Glover Teixeira. GSP and Lyoto Machida come from karate--GSP has mentioned several times that all of his takedown defense timing comes from karate. Ronda Rousey comes from judo. The list goes on.) . Not to mention the fact--and yes, this is a fact--that streetfighting and prizefighting are not the same thing. You can see lots of this "elitism" from SBG on RUclips, including on this very channel. Of course that's not to say that the SBG guys don't know BJJ--their BJJ is very good. But it's kinda ironic to hear complaints about "elitism" coming from a student of one of the most elitist martial arts schools today.
Also, it's incorrect to think that all BJJ schools do things the same way and that they've all thrown out tradition. At my BJJ school (which is a large international team that has produced world and ADCC champions), we still line up left to right. We still bow in. If two pairs are rolling and bump into each other, the junior students stop and reset and allow the senior students to continue. It's a show of respect, and it's not a bad thing.
There's this famous recording (not sure if it's from JRE or not) of Rogan and a couple of other guys wallowing in self-satisfaction about how BBJ is the greatest thing ever and calling themeselves - wait for it - "modern day Jedis". Somehow BJJ practitioners are usually the loudest when talking about cultesque features of (pseudo-)traditional schools, while comepletely missing that the joke is on them
I think the point he is making here is the elitism and problems specific to TMAs.
@@jaehwan123 I especially agree on your last point. The type of jiu-jitsu I do (German jujutsu) values a lot of those traditions. We line up left to right, wear mostly white gis with minimal patches and bow in. Where I train, there are many additional rules regarding the bow-in: If you need to retie your belt, face away from the instructor, when we go down to kneel during the bow-in, the right leg goes down first and gets up first, during the kneeling, the feet shouldn't be crossed over, it should be silent during the entire bow-in and so on. However, what is not really present where I train is the hierarchy. We call our instructors by their first name and without any title and people with higher belts don't get any special rights. Our instructors also only give advice on doing techniques and not on any other thing. So in the end, I agree that traditional doesn't equal bad as what usually contributes to a martial art not working is strong authority of the instructor, even outside of martial arts which doesn't necessarly come from tradition but from people abusing trust.
I also dislike all the BJJ elitism.
I'll be honest... your channel brings confort to my heart!
Since I found it, it became so much easier to move on.
Our experiences are so similar, both coming from Aikido, and kind of share the same timing. Glad to share this with someone!
Tks, again, Rokas!
Same here, watching your channel made me reconsider if i should keep on training aikido or not and if i was really having fun and fulfilling the objective that made me join aikido in the first place. And also that its ok to let go some stuff to do other that you enjoy more.
@@arkhust6775
if you know how to fight and where you can try individual elements step by step, practice aikido, if you know how to fight very well you can stay with aikido ... look for judo or kicboxing and try to use individual elements, treat aikido as "kata", something like in judo / bjj technician practice where you can't train them on a resistance opponent ... sparring / fighting is looking for opportunities, reflexes and something similar to the trained ...
aikido (not black belt), muaythai (a lot of sparing, lite filing lilke in movie "Concussion 2015" - not at this time), bjj (some times judo for there sparing) i did... and some basic calisthenic...
learn the basics of medicine / body mechanics for rehabilitation ... injuries not avoided ...
i have from aikido what i want... for me work...
Having trained and continuing in several "traditional" martial arts (Judo, Taiji, Karate), this seems entirely alien to me. At each dojo the senior students deserved respect because of the simple fact that they were genuinely skilled -- nobody thought they should be respected simply because they wore particular colour belts. Moreover, earning brown and black belts required significantly more than simply "putting the time into punching, kicking, and choreographed forms". In both the Judo and Karate dojo those who wore brown and black belts were required to be good at applying the martial art, something which lower-rank students learn directly during sparring. Indeed in my current Karate dojo more advanced students are expected to consider who they are training with -- but there is a clear duty to select less advanced students in order to help them: the more senior you are, the greater the duty.
There is no shame in sitting on the left end of the line -- just like the undergraduate students at my university are not ashamed to be labelled "first year". It is not thought that the people sitting to your right are inherently better in any moral sense. They have likely been training longer, and some of them might have deep enough understanding to help you, but that's it.
I agree!
I agree, maybe because i'm asian and not too bothered by it, unless there is clear frontal elitism, i just thought of it as tradition.
I practice Shaolin kung Fu and my teacher has made it extremely clear that your belt and age mean nothing. The respect you give is what really matters. He always says that the belt merely means you've been practicing longer and have more knowledge but that's doesn't correlate to any form of surperiourity.
Hey Rokas, I sometimes hear unfair criticism of Judo. I really think you need to try it out for yourself. It has a lot of cross over with BJJ and it's a super effective martial art. It's just not as trendy and popular as BJJ is at the moment. It's good to learn Judo and wrestling because a lot of BJJ schools neglect it and the practitioners are not good at putting people to the ground to finish the fight.
Trying out Judo soon is on my list
@@MartialArtsJourney BJJ IS judo. Literally, the rule set is the only difference, one focuses standup and one focuses the ground work.
Almost all BJJ techniques exist in Judo.
Now current sport judo has some drawbacks, sonce they banned techniques, which target the legs, etc, but honestly that just means the more "traditional" version was just more legit.
And as someone who did Judo and does BJJ at the moment, I kind of miss the structure I had, in regards to bowing, adressing the teacher as sensei, student's lining up by rank (makes it faster if anything). That's just good manners/discipline and doesn't take away from the fun or the training itself.
@@Deathskull0001 I don't think that almost all BJJ moves in judo, but what I think is that judo headhunting training is better than what I get taught in BJJ. I think
@@bookknight They're not practised for sure, as sports judo currently is really focused on throws and trips. However, they exist in the kodokan, as in, the moves were invented prior to the Gracies learning them - the popular example being the story behind the kimura.
I think that Nate Diaz is a good example of the major weakness of BJJ. They chose to focus on the ground game, attaining excellence in that area, but in doing so had to sacrifice the throws to have the time. Nate is a good boxer, and good at BJJ, so he can do well on the ground or on his feet, but has to rely on his opponent taking him down to transfer between them.
Wrestlers can really show the benefit of being good at the takedowns. Rather than letting your opponent dictate the terms of how you go to the ground, you can use the takedown to set up the submission.
There is sparring in judo and I do sparr with my coach.
I wouldn't even consider judo a traditional martial art tbh
By the definition he is using, judo would not be considered a traditional martial art in a lot of ways
Anyone can explain to me what is Traditional and what is modern?
@@m5a1stuart83 Traditional BAD. Modern GOOD. Dudes like Rokas will let you know which is which as needed.
@@fearghalohara4608 Judo is more of a sport/"martial way" than a martial art. It was more or less designed as such.
Belt ranks tend to create a cult of personality. I was certain at age 16 that when I received my black belt that the world would change and then it didn't. I was still riding the bus and getting bad grades in school.
If you got your black belt at 16 that sounds like a Mcdojo unless you were abnormally skilled.
Belts or no belt really doesn't matter, from what experience I had through both "traditional" or "modern" martial arts. The club or dojo culture is always the culprit for this, such as the instructor being too prideful to respond correctly to confrontation.
@@hornetc5585 I think that's more a western thing. In the East it's more common to see black belts given to under 18 year olds and for it to mean very little. Because martial arts are often taught in schools. So it's more like saying you played cricket or football or rugby for your school. Then they differentiate more between the dan grades. First dans tend to have imposter syndrome. second dans become over-arrogant over-aggressive. 3rd Dan have the skills but take unnecessary risks. 4th dans are more comfortable like water 5th dans have sunk into the master and later than that involve service to the way and spiritual development something like that. But it means different things depending on the school and dojo. People could leave Japan or Singapore with a simple black belt that had no respect at home and once they arrived in america they became grand masters. But that was the 20th century for ya. I don't think black belts means as much as thy did even in america these days. And in India most people with Karate black belts will be kids with maybe 10 years training who then give up Karate to take up MMA/BJJ. It may take them another five years mind to get their blue belt in BJJ
For all the elitism in traditional martial arts, the elitists in BJJ is the most disconcerting - they never stop rambling on about belts. IMO, because I came from fight sports, gradings/belts is a business construct that leads inevitably to a drip feeding of knowledge, control of knowledge for power and elitism. Humans just don't learn best that way, nature and a natural world presents stimulus and learning opportunities in dynamic ways. As a fighter, I learned from people of all abilities, learnt from every encounter, as much from those with the best skillset as from those with the most limited.
It's pressure testing, not elitism.
@@sampokemppainen3041 what is?
@@boxingforselfdefence7620 bjj belt system.
I recon you do not train in jiu jitsu, correct?
belts and gradings are *most certainly* a business construct, though that doesn't mean they don't have meaning in BJJ, in the sense that they generally represent fairly accurately the skill level of someone, at least inside his geographical area. Because you usually don't get promoted until you demonstrate you can hang out decently with the upper rank people, it's that simple - something that arts without real sparring can't have obviously.
I don't think it leads to control of information as you say, never seen people try to protect their secret techniques (which most of us know, aren't a thing in this day and age) - in fact, most people are more likely to help out and provide advice to lower belts the higher in rank they go. Maybe they do it in good faith, maybe they just want to prove they know their rank's share of knowledge, who cares tbh, the net effect is positive in this aspect imo.
It *does* occasionally result in some bruised egos if someone misses a promotion they though they deserved, but it's rare. People that chase belts don't usually last long in bjj anyway, because the belts are few and far between, and it just takes too long to become a black belt in most schools for people that aren't truly passionate to reach that point.
I see all of that in BJJ tbh
No, no, no. Not possible. The video was clear...and authoritative.
i am too latly. big school names like gracie, alliance, 10th planet and lcct all bring a narrow view of what bjj is suppose to be and act very cultish.
Jen Zim
Perhaps a similar phenomenon happened with ancient martial arts in which they were proven to work but over time they became “cultish” because they proved themselves to be the best and due to all that arrogance their training was off and corrupted
BBJ is in fact very elitsm. The Shotokan, Chang Ho TKD, Aikido and silat where I train, hirarchy is not more than a hirarchy in any normal club. Even in clubs you have different type of memberships. It is a normal thing in social behaviour. My Aikido teacher was a 3rd dan and professor at military academy. I knew nothing about that before I google him. Just a nice normal person with a black belt.
This was a truly great video on a subject that needs to be covered more often!
I recently got into a debate with a Black Belt in my own Organization about this. I was reprimanded for criticizing a view he held, off the mat, that he had presented in public for discussion. I was told I should not criticize a Senior... I explained that we are off the mat and no one is above reproach. On the mat I will respect skill, but even there, if there is an error it needs to be corrected.
True respect is humble, realizing that students might have something they can teach you, keep each other in check and on the proper path.
Weirdly enough I trained a bit of aikido but my sensei never did that positioning thing where the more advanced students were on the right and less advanced students on the right, and she was honest that the training wouldn't help win fights and that honestygot me to pressure test stuff and pushed me to learn some wrestling. I definitely found the experience valuable.
that vegeta costume tho
:D
Very well said!
I have never tried "modern" martial arts and as far as trafitional martial arts go, it is full of this "elitism" mindset.
Good job explaining it
After years of wrestling, boxing, various tries of mma, savate etc I had a stroke and doctor told me contact sports are no no. I started training karate and suddenly people who had never even sparred started telling me how to fight. I was dumbfounded, how was this possible?
I have sparred with national level champs, competed some and encountered violence in my work. And now some pot bellied office worker tells me nothing I do will work in real situations.
Your videos have helped me a lot to figure out the weird fantasy bubbles of traditional martial arts schools. Currently focusing on points karate since it's a sport, not a coreographed act.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience! I know how frustrating these situations are and unfortunately they're universal and happens all across the globe.
Yes...imo it heavily discredits a karate practitioner (especially an instructor) when they have a pot belly. Not body shaming, or saying they don't know their stuff. I just think it makes you look like you don't take your art (or yourself) seriously when part of your craft if you will, is physical fitness.
I am an older man and chose to do a TMA mostly for fitness reasons.....I needed to loose weight and get flexible I had no real intent on one martial art over the other ....so in visiting many schools I just applied the simple test of is he or is he not a culero....(a mexican word for arsehole). This is a human trait and I see it in my career as well as interaction with neighborhood groups etc .....if you are a person who wants to feel superior you will look for a way to exercise that false superiority.....so I understand and accept what you say but I doubt it is as clear cut as you are trying to say .....I deeply respect your journey and your skills and how you are growing as a person but you need to look back with joy as the experiences you had in your aikido life as that was your journey which has taken you to where you are today....you seem rather happy to look back and bash and paint everything now as being perfect ....I am glad you are happy and feel you have found your place but this is a result of the journey .....and remember to apply the culero test to everything ......I myself found a wonderful aikido class and teacher who had helped me achieve all I wanted from martial arts.
Hey, when I was a school teacher and part time MA instructor, parents would ask me what style they should have thier children learn. I always had two suggestions. 1- make sure it's easy to get to and hard to miss driving home. A beginner needs easy access. After they make a personal commitment to train they will travel the world to continue. 2- you are picking a mentor for your child. If you don't like the teacher, or trust them with your child, why would you ever give your child over to them even had they the mythical best system of martial arts?
Blind obedience is dangerous
Thats why I love bjj instructors who rolls with their students. If you are good enough, you might be even able to tap him now and then :)
But really, those guys don't tell you they are good, they show you
@@vasilijenicic6806 yeah man, I used to spar with my students. If their hands were down, boom headshot. Not moving, leg sweep. Too close? Hip throw. Of course it was all light, I'm not tryna kill them. I think they learned well that way.
Funny enough, there are members of the grace family who are extremely elitist/cocky. In fact, the patriarchs of bjj were very elitist when they were trying to promote their art. One of the gracies refused to fight sakuraba in his prime because apparently sakuraba didn't have the "warrior spirit". I think you should take a step back and really do some more research into "modern martial arts" community. The elitism isn't as exclusive as you think. You seem to by trying to compensate for the bad experience you had with aikido. It's kind of disappointing because you yourself have become somewhat of an elitist.
All those traditions such as bowing are just that... They're traditions. This does not take away the experience of fighting or the art. The bow in the east is the "equivalent" of a handshake in the west... So according to your mindset, should handshakes be questioned now in the west?
PS I come from a modern combat background (Muay Thai and boxing) so there's no animosity here in terms of mma vs tma. Just very disappointed in you rokas.
"Just very disappointed in you Rokas" is a strong phrase. But don't worry I read comments and I hear people. I will do some digging into elitism in BJJ and MMA.
Muay thai is a traditional martial arts
@@robleyusuf2566 traditional yes. But they've always been modernizing their combat standards. But yeah the point still remains.
@@generationace3032 Muay thai and kyokushin kai and the okinawan karate never modernized much but were effective from beginning because they are training hard not like the othe traditional martial arts. There are fake traditional martial arts around who are destroying the reputation of the other traditional martial arts. Please look at the videos of Muay thai, kyokushin kai and okinawan karate. Also Judo is a traditional martial arts and effective.
I hope I don't offend when I say I don't trust handshakes, which are most often offered gratuitously by exactly those people I have the least reason to trust. A failed method of courtesy has been suborned to the needs of infectious, contagious, disease. In other words, handshakes are a great way to spread disease. They tell you nothing about the character of the persons involved.
How about elitist and abusive Black Belts? When I was in my first month of Aikido, I went out and bought every book I could find to reinforce what I was learning in class. One book I read said take advantage of any opportunity to work with black belts to increase your learning and understanding. So this day finally comes. I was practicing techniques on the open mat after class and a black belt approached me to work with him. Of course I jumped at the chance. The first fall I took should have been my last. He threw me with so much force that I literally slid across the mat on my break fall. I didn't want him to think I was weak so I got up quickly and proceeded to take harder and more forceful falls. After several more falls all I wanted was for it to end, but I stubbornly held on to the words of that book, believing I was getting an "advanced" lesson. At some point several more blackbelts began to watch. On one particular irimi nage throw I've never done, (I was too new) I was not yet trained on the ukemi, which required rolling out. Instead, I crashed hard to the mats directly on my shoulder and heard a pop/crunch in my collar bone. I surprised even myself with the scream I let out and the gathering blackbelts came to pick me up. I was thankful when one of them said I think you're good for today to get me out of this session. It took over a month for that shoulder to heal.
I've encountered several black belts like this at several schools. They're everywhere and they piss me off. As a kohei, we faithfully entrust our safety and trust in the sempai. In an art like Aikido, we cannot resist, counter, or retaliate. Unless we excuse ourselves or the head teacher steps in, we have to endure this. It got to the point where when we'd see certain black belts approaching us, or joining our drill line, people would move over to another line until I was stuck 1 on 1 with Mr. Sadistic. Yes I'm stubborn and don't want to show I'm weak, even when I get my ass kicked. So many times I wish I could just blast them full on in the face! This is the type of elitism I can't stand. They act as if they are untouchable and constantly made me feel like if I'm going to get my ass kicked anyway, at least let me fight back to have a chance. There is no one to humble them in this setting.
When I recieved my black belt in taekwondo I was told that it only means that I have sufficient knowlegde of the basic techniques in tdk. I think that was them trying to humble me.
But they were right. I received mine as well. They told me it's like a High School Diploma. A basic vocabulary. Hardly 3rd year French. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of pride in my accomplishment and working through the injuries I overcame to get it, but it's still going to take many years for me to feel "fluent" enough to depend on my skills. We need to stay humble and keep learning!
The ego needs an enemy in order to survive, the ego only exists in opposition. Do not compare yourself to someone else, learn from them and then you love to learn from them so you love to live your life. The circle becomes full
Bang on about the lack of pressure testing in TMA. I remember training with an aikido instructor who was a complete shit to his student, really badly bullied this vulnerable student and just bragged about himself
I can relate to that. I was a 9 year old fat boy when I started learning karate and my instructor used to beat the shit out of me just for fun, I used to get bruises on my skin and he used to make fun of my weight in the class and the advanced students bullied me and made fun of me, I used to cry. Yet I stayed there for 6 years and gained by black belt. I didn't see any end to their elitism so I left that dojo and quit martial arts because of my dispise for these elitists. I'm glad there are others like me as well.
@@zack9953 you should give martial arts another shot
I agree with this idea of elitism but I'd like to say there's actually some good in tma. Also I've come across elitism in both bjj and Muay thai. I've trained in both tma and modern martial arts, karate and Muay Thai. One thing I appreciate about my karate instructors was that they actually kept an eye out for their students when sparring. They knew who was experienced (not just in belt ranking but just overall natural talent) and not as experienced and they encouraged everyone to spar with anyone regardless of experience. And they would always emphasize the more experienced fighters to be responsible for the safety of their partners. When I trained in Muay Thai however, my instructors didn't care too much. Great overall learning experience but there were times when some experienced fighters were purposely headhunting, even on the inexpereinced/new trainees. But the instructors didn't do shit nor emphasize responsbility onto experienced fighters. There have been people who quit my classes because of head hunters. And my Muay Thai instructors didn't do anything to ensure safety of newers trainees. TBH I think one of the newer trainees even got a minor concussion, and they just wanted to learn, not pursue a fighting career like these wannabe fighting headhunters.
Don't get me wrong, I love Muay thai, it's still my basis martial art even though I'm participating in karate at the same time, but theres a good amount of respect I have for my karate classes compared to my Muay Thai classes.
Shit can go both ways to both tma and modern ma's but there are pros and good things that tma can teach. Rokas I think you're throwing a little too much shade on tma's without diving too deep into the benefits that they provided, while also ignoring the horror stories and cons of modern ma's.
I think you should continue your journey in modern martial arts while also giving tma's (not aikido) another shot down the road, but these kinds of videos calling out elitism in tma's (while ignoring elitism in modern martial arts) is quite hypocritical and honestly missing the entire point. You had a couple of bad experiences in aikido, doesn't mean every tma school is like that. Just like you had a couple of good experiences in modern martial arts, doesn't mean all are like that.
That's one thing I can say of TMA (TKD for me...) are the values and mutual respect they foster. Every school is different and the recruiting tactics of Karate when I was younger (Sensei having you lie on the floor and stepping on your stomach...) were questionable enough to question the art's ethics. Now that I am older, I can see individuals and not broadly paint the organization. In other arts such as Boxing, respect is more earned than conferred due to the day in and day out training and sparring. I think anyone entering the Arts should strive for a healthy balance between the two. It's the best way to build character.
This is not unique to TMA. A exceptional genius in one endeavor may assume his opinions and observations are equally qualified in areas outside his expertise. Those he trains may also adapt this assumption. Everyone has weaknesses and blind spots. Unfortunately this may mislead those who trust and follow them.
my HEMA club has something similar to ranking students, we have 4 "ranks" total (Novice, Experienced, Senior, Scholar) the newbies (novices) are cluttered on the left, and the more experienced fencers (experienced, senior, and scholar practitioners) are cluttered on the right side of the line, we have 3-4 instructors, one keeps records and the daily roll call, one instructs the newbies, one instructs the more experienced fencers, the last instructor goes back and forth between the two. thus dividing the gym in two between the newbies and advanced fencers. if there arent total beginners at the time of practice, the gym is not divided. after our practice, drills, and the learning stuff, the gym is used for sparring. now onto the ranks:
Novice:
the beginners, these guys learn the fundamentals like guards, footwork, how to handle the sword, how to cut, how to thrust, how to defend, and a couple basic techniques. they dont spar just yet, instead they do drills, try to shape their form, learn to engage their core, and develop some muscle. this stage takes about 2 months.
Experienced:
now that they have learned the fundamentals, they start to learn more advanced techniques, collect some basic protective gear, start sparring. this is when the fun really starts.
Senior:
these guys have now become serious fencers, they know very advanced techniques, theyve developed muscle groups, structure and muscle memory, theyve collected their kit including their 'feather sword', started intense full contact sparring, and theyve most likely started attending events and seminars.
Scholar:
these guys are seniors, but theyve also read the manuscripts thoroughly, studied them, and theyve reached their peak in terms of technique efficiency and finesse. these guys are now even more serious, theyve started earning medals, joining the very large competitions. they will break you.
^ you only notice your progression well after youve ranked up, the ranks arent symbolised, theyre just there to keep track of your progress
What is the difference beetween taekwondo and training for ibjjf? People wearing traditional clothes, they are obsessed with the color of their fashion accesory. And technically you can win by a knock out/submission, but most of the time it is just point game.
No difference. It's just that bjj can be used for fighting, other then competing in a sport. Taekwondo is far more difficult to use in a fight against people who know how to defend.
@@riccardomurru5799 Same with BJJ, you will having trouble againts wrestler on concrete. Especially if they know the basic of Newaza, you are screwed.
elitism does not belong only to TMA even if it tends to be magnified by the behaviors you describe and that are typically associated with TMA. As far as Aikido is concerned, I used to say: here in the west there are people that want to be more japanese than the japanese.
Mixed Martial Arts comes from Traditional Martial Arts. There shouldn't be hate between the two rather harmony. Also the class structure of TMA is a formal environment meant as a military prep school for young people entering the service.
Yes Rokas, traditional martial arts have problems and modern martial have also their own.
As you say staying aware and always questioning oneself while exposed to different experiences is essential.
“Old world cultures cherish grace in defeat because they know we all lose in the end. New world cultures remain confident the can keep destiny at bay, perhaps forever.’
The definition of 'Traditional' spans a History of different Universes / Dimensions too. Actually, experienced Masters will tell you it depends on the Art itself not a non-linear Historical placement or emphasis.
A lot of us like the customs of TMAs such as the uniforms, the bowing, the forms (kata) as well as the emphasis on respect, awareness, and non-violence.
My favourite art would combine those customs with a mix of many different styles from several cultures and time periods.
However, in that hypothetical martial art, teachers would be very honest about the limitations of their own eclectic style because there's only so much one can learn in one lifespan.
You are an awesome individual and watching your personal and martial growth is inspiring. Forget the haters!
Reminds me a little bit of Ramsey Dewey phenomenon, he is a great fighter and very experienced in the ring with a wealth of information in that field. But people are starting to look to him like he is a god when it comes to everything outside of the ring and in life, when it comes to everything from [not] drinking even herbal tea, to not calling anyone who doesn't share close genetics with you family. It's scary to see how quickly someone can be thrown [unwillingly maybe?] into a "god" position, just because they're a great martial artist.
I call this the "Cult of Personality". Not originally from me.
@@RicoMnc Great saying, it fits perfectly.
@@RicoMnc a song by LIVING COLOUR. the video 2 go with demonstrates exactly THAT. dig it.
I find this highly interesting, I practiced Karate which would also be considered traditional and my experience was the polar opposite.
It seemed to me that humility was part of the tradition. The black belts I have practiced with were the most humble people I have met.
It was very common to hear phrases like "don't worry about the color of the belt, it does nothing but hold your jacket" or similar attitudes.
Everyone was also super open minded about experiences from other martial arts.
the ironic thing is the non-asian schools are more "traditional" than the schools with asian teachers. I don't blame them, the arrogance of the Asian taught teachers make them have a lot more to "prove." Though in my experience at least in major cities, a lot of the schools in the "hood" tend to be more effective in practical fighting due to the nature of where the teacher and students came from and they do not fear "losing face" when sparring outside of their styles to learn and adapt.
It is all about the journey, humble submission, respect, pleasantness, manners, willingness to learn and putting into practise the learnings to any teacher who is willing to give up their time and impart their hard earned knowledge and experiences of teaching methods and techniques. It is the essence of any learning whether it be learning to drive, fly, sailing, playing sports, trade disciplines, performing heart surgery etc. or martial arts. All must have willing students devoid of arrogance, stuborness and lonewolf lawlessness. Willing to apply themselves, put time and effort into training and learning.
Everyone wants to be a great concert musician but no-one wants to put in the hard yards- the 8 hours a day or more of practice needed to acheive levels of skills unavailable to the non worthy and non initiated. Elitism is a motivator to inspire one to climb the ladder and prove to be worthy . Removing elitism would change the dojo into a church hall aerobics class of bum sniffing leotard lackeys.
I am happy to start at the bottom and work up. we need to build strong safe foundations to build our techniques on to avoid injury to self and others. A black belt means you have begun your journey to master self.
If we want to be the best martial artists and defeat fellow man then just invest in c4, rocket launchers, drones, tanks and expensive state of the art stun guns, rail guns, satelite technology, intelligence etc. etc.
Old outdated fighting methods won't save us but their disciplines will. then we must have a disciplined army with rules, training and dare i say it..... elitism ....yes elitism. basic military training strips away everything and builds from the ground up crack elite marines, French Foreign Legion, SAS , Green Berrets etc. etc. elitism has it's place. Elitism weeds out the non committed half arsed. but if lulled into a false sense of security then pride goes before a fall
Does poo tin know humbleness, humility, empathy and respect??
Martial arts have great benefits as a way of life for fitness, balance, mobility, co-ordination, brotherhood, family, health, breathing, agility, learning how to fall without hurting oneself, learning biomechanics, calmness and mastering fear and self.
One- on- one competitive attack sports lack realism in the face of a multiple attack.
Rokas i have only begun my journey and from what little i have seen, you have earned the right to question and seek and i wish you well in your journey, it is nice seeing your videos and skill levels growing. I appreciate and admire your humbleness, respect, honesty and willingness to share your experiences. I wish you all the very best brother !!! and look forward to seeing your progress. Domo arigato gozaimus !!!!
I remember taking Tang So Doo and having to bow when I saw my black belt instructors outside of the dojo. I would be at work and if I saw my instructors (Even the ones from other dojos that didn't teach me on a regular basis.) I worked as a cashier and my instructors expected me to leave the register and bow to them. My boss saw this and wanted to know what I was doing and why. One time it was very busy during the Christmas shopping season and the line was huge. I didn't leave the register to bow. Next karate class I was yelled at in front of everybody. I was so humiliated, I tried to explain it was busy and I didn't want the other customers in line to be angry. My instructor said he didn't want to hear any excuses, I was being disrespectful! I had to do pushups on my knuckles! This incident was one of the reasons why I quit taking karate.
Wow, that's crazy! 😱
Even when I was at a bar or the movies. I'd have to bow and speak to them. No matter if I was with my friends or boyfriend. I'd have to ignore my friends and pay attention to my instructors. This one time I was at a bar and my instructor was lecturing that I was drinking too much. Acted like he was my dad. I got annoyed and I was a little tipsy and I dumped a pitcher of beer on his head. Boy did he get pissed! Luckily I had a lot of friends with me and they stopped him from coming after me. My bouncer friend threw my instructor out and banned him from the bar cause he always hassled me.
@@natalieshannon7659 You should have showed them the middlefinger and left without doing the pushups.
I started my fighting with boxing and gained wrestling as a way to supplement my training. No matter how good of a boxer I would become (unless I trained for a really long time/hired a professional trainer), it would only get me so far. The same is true with wrestling. The same is true with any combat based sport. No matter how much sparring I'd do, I'd still be limited to size. I have a friend, who even in doing BJJ, as a white belt, easily and handily defeats anyone below purple simply based on his size. This is while maintaining BJJ rules. There is this misnomer that all is well if you've got sparring. Now having said that, I joined a Kuk Sool Won school. KSW is an awesome martial art, it mixes and positions so many things together. So much so, that my friend's MMA fight trainer had received his black belt in KSW and my friend considered it "very deadly". However, KSW does not give you any resistance until at least brown belt. My Master Instructor had even said, "up until black belt all we're teaching you is how to train. At black belt that is when the training really begins".
Fast forward, I join a Wing Chun school. By month two, we're doing resistance training. Often I have "sparred"(meaning full energy, full contact) with my older brothers in the system. They dice me. I've brought other people, they can handily and easily dice them, regardless of size or skill. We have a school that is very humbling. My skills are far above where they would have been without this. Again, it depends on the school. I have been in McDojo MMA schools. Also, we call it full contact but in reality, as i showed a friend of mine, if we went to the ground and he sprawled out like this, his groin is open, his throat is open. It is not full contact. Not like the way people believe it to be. You must be able to fail and shown how it would fail in the street, regardless of style.
There are just different ways of looking at the same thing. Martial art styles are a weapon. We say they're for self defense, but they exist to "hit without getting hit". This is a weapon. Some weapons are great at somethings, while being lackluster in others. Not me trying to make a statement, just trying to present how I see it. Thanks!
The quality of the instructor is so important. I've heard something along the lines of: a good leader isn't marked by his ability to control his students, but by his ability to train his students how to control themselves; if the students feel lost or begin to conflict because the leader is gone (because they are dependent on him), then his role as a leader is questionable.
I liked the video because he's a westerner who accurately rated Confucianism. A few issues with the rest of the video, but the tone is quite reasonable and I feel that he has a sincere relationship with his martial arts.
His old traditional school must have been lacking if he is so disillusioned by it, I would like to hear a bit about what he practiced before doing mma.
You are right, there is nothing to "humble" a black belt especially if they don't compete.
I want to say that not all traditional schools are like that mine always emphesise that the belt doesnt represenr anything but martial arts experience
Very precise description. This is essentially what I felt when I precticed Kung-Fu back in the late 90's.
100,000 subscribers 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Congrats from Tijuana!!
I practiced karate for more than 6 years and I totally agree with "advanced" students bullying students lower than them. Also a lot of favouritism shown towards certain students by the instructor.
It's unfortunate that Elitism goes on, I've experienced several times and not just within MA. Ego obviously plays a large part which is another topic in itself.
Certain cultures and traditions don't translate well from the far East to the West and modern day. The other aspect is the the way people learn. Teaching methods have changed and developed over the years, and unfortunately many people are stuck in the past. As you mentioned people blindly follow without knowing why and this is where the problems arise. Tradition can be fine, providing people can understand the purpose of what they are doing and why.
This unfortunately is something that happens in everyday life. Most people like feeling comfortable and don't want to rock the boat. Change is something people in general seem to fear as they would rather stick to what's familiar.
Another aspect of the elitism is that the instructors don't feel the need to answer your questions. Communication is only from master to student. Only when I took karate classes from an American instructor that I was explained why we're doing this movement, and why an alternate movement won't work in certain situations. Never got that explained from a traditional asian instructor.
That's why when my grandkid grows older, I'll only look for dojos with Western educated instructors.
The more advanced students take more responsibility and the lead in drills. But, I NEVER had a sense of my Sihings being elitist towards me and I NEVER act like an elitist towards my Sidai.
It's recognized that some students have a level of knowledge that I don't yet possess. So, they're helping me get there.
I practice Iaido, which is very traditional. Its also an art with a smaller number of students across the world, so its common to have seminars with high dan Japanese practitioners visit. We have a close connection to Japan, and its easier to keep the traditions without the egos impacting it
I think it comes down more to the people and the training place . But the black belt and the superiorty thing is on spot there are many black belts that behave that way. ( and many that don't ) I guess if everyone trains hard and help all the ranks everyone understands their current position and ability plus their sensei always behaving as an student ( mindset wise ) there can be a lot of improvement .
Toxic instructors exist in martial arts where the systems did not weed them out before they became instructors. At some point the most accessible traditional martial arts became focused on physical technique and the superficial aspects of cultures of origin instead of the deeper personal development and character building emotional intelligence of tradition. The superficial notions of culture are easily confused for ego based structures to protect incapable instructors because that is what toxic wannabes use them for. It is seen in this video through the example given about the way students of Japanese arts line up based on time in training. This is a tradition that comes from the days of dueling, when a person might pretend to be a student to attack the teacher in front of his class. In old school Budo ambush and counter ambush are common aspects of the training. The reason the more advanced students sit on the front row and to the right of the school is so they can protect the teacher when his back is turned and when the instructor is facing the class, the more trusted students are on his weak side and outside of his sword draw arc. The lessor known and less trusted students are on the instructors strong side and at the end of his sword arc when he is facing the class. This is in case the lessor known student should try to ambush the teacher. Not about a hierarchy, but rather a practical strategy.
It is fascinating how author managed to practice Aikido for 13 years and failed to learn this
Daaaaamn man. I am watching your videos since its once popped up in suggested vids. I really appreciate you looking at both side of a coin not only about aikido, but at any topic you make a video about. You talk about both sides. I really like that. And now I am subscribed)
Very nicely said, as with all things in martial arts, and in life, an honest balance is very important. The balance between following and respecting the traditions and not getting too involved beyond what they are there to teach. In the same manner some traditional Dojos will focus far too heavily on Kata or Waza and miss out on the pressure testing of sparring, randori or even Mushin.
You raise some very valid points! To some degree, though, it also depends on the particular school you go to. I did Aikido for a few years, and even though the school was very traditional, the environment was very good natured and supportive. I also did a little bit of Karate, and in that school, the bullying element was far more evident, and it occasionally even created unsafe situations. The difference? The Aikido school had a large number of high-level Japanese blackbelts, while the Karate school has only a few. So competition to get high-level validation was more extreme, while in the Aikido school, there were too many good black belts to see them as royalty, they were teachers and helpers.
At the same time, there is definitely a retarding element in the Confucian school structure to stop newbies from advancing too fast, which can be very disheartening to some students.
brother, I came back to post this after watching this video a few days ago and thinking about it ever since. Even though as long time martial arts fan and practicioner, I was very aware of what you said (one single sparring in BJJ is enough to realize this), you did hit the nail on the head here and put it into words perfectly. 100% signed.
I did Hapkido (basically TKD+Aikido) for many years and even back in the day, I did not understand certain things about the gym culture. Why do black belts stop fighting out of the blue and go back to a teacher only role? Did they forget how to fight? Also the shutting people up with authority part and the mystical reasons for why what is bad and other things are mandatory is simply a load of BS. Met some of my former mates (and they were family, without a doubt) and they still have troubles accepting that as a fact.
"oh dude, by now I know all the black belt techniques, those are the ones that really hurt"
"you sure want to spar, I might hurt you"
"if you do that oblique kick, that guy most likely will never walk again"
"no bro, you just can't use those joint manipulations, they are too dangerous"
man.... that makes me mad. Maybe I should visit those old buddies for some sparring but bet your ass they will use rule sets to deny you from doing anything and claim in a real fight I'd be dead.
I remember in 2010 or so, one of the guys I was friends with from another school just went right through all of his opponents in the tournament and was placed akwardly bad, even though it was very obvious to everyone, that he dismanteled all of his opponents, up to 1st kub master-students. The reasoning from the comitee was bad technique (he used hooks and thai kicks additionally, but everything was crisp and clean. Dude is a freak and a successful teacher himself for a decade now. Needless to say he stopped Hapkido after that incident and rightfully so)
Then I remember, two of the older black belts who I kind of looked up to, they were telling stories how they battled kickboxer and Thaiboxer and what not and they did not sparr in the end because they could not agree on a rule set. What a joke. They probably don't even realize they were full of excuses.
The thing with the 3 attackers at the black belt exam was a thing for us too, but honestly, even if they really tried to hurt their mate (which they never would, they don't really attack. they are friends) - what's the point of drilling for 10 years just in order to have a single practical aspect later on. I think our black belts even were blindfolded... I am not sure though, you were only allowed to join if you were invited by the masters and were near black belt yourself. stupid elitism, lol.
*Remember this, guys: in a real situation you will always fall back to the first things you learned and drilled the most.* I can't stress this enough. That is why you should have a quality instructor from the get go.
I trained a shit ton of techiques from other systems like Muay Thai and Boxing and stopped doing most of the TMA techniques years ago but I still fall back on some of those from the past (I was a bouncer, inspired by Geoff Thompson's book 'fear', so I have references). I am glad that not everything is bad, so the front kick, followed by a straight is what my auto pilot plays off when my brain shuts down in a fight or flight situation. I did observe this a few times. That works fine with some follow up when needed. Imagine I spent all my teens and twenties in some voodoo techniques, I'd be pissed as hell.
This vid is worth multiple thumbs up. Love your channel and your honesty. Also, there is nothing wrong with martial ARTS, it is a form of art and culture, just like dancing. Just don't fool yourself or anyone else. Took me weeks to get my younger buddy to pick a serious martial art. I talked him into Muay Thai instead of Taekwondo. That makes me oddly happy, cus I know very well that he will thank me in a couple of years... haha.
All the best to you. Oz.
No pressure testing in Ving Tsun? It all depends how you train. Its just like in Karate. Some do mostly katas, other do full contact fighting...
i wanna turn my breakdancing into an effective tool in combat sports.
It's called "Capoeira."
@@byronjuarez656 I said effective combat.
Jk, you're right, that is capoeira, but I think it's doubtful how effective it really is since I've never heard of capoeira techniques being used in MMA.
@@SpitefulAZ To be fair, Anderson Silva used the Jenga (sp?) sidestep before but Andy could make anything work. He was once cornered by Steven Segal (Aikido!)
I tried Capoeira before and imo it was extremely difficult to learn b/c the movements are so unorthodox and indirect.
As for effectiveness, I think Capoeira works vs other strikers but not so much vs Wrestling or grappling.
I've heard a BJJ student mock Capoeira before but Relson Gracie corrected him, saying "It works." It might be a Brazilian pride thing but the respect was there.
I do judo and have done some bjj and the sparring is basically the same the difference is judo focuses more on throws and take downs and less on ground but there's still a good amount of ground also in judo after green belt you have to win in competition to get your belts it is traditional but it's also very heavily sport focused with a lot of sparring and everyone spars everyone
Great video. Helpful insights. Bu there is also another type of elitism related to class, which often is subsumed in some tma through fees, uniform and seminars a student is expected to pay for. It can be very expensive.
This is your best video on this subject so far....and I think you finally answered my question of, 'If a traditional martial art pressure tests what is it?'. Specifically I took Karate with an instructor who was pressure testing and not just through kumite, it kind of resembled Krav Maga, except probably not as 'severe', like a Krav Maga Light. He also taught Judo separately but I think you would characterize this as an anomaly not the 'norm'.
I still find your videos interesting on this subject, as what you are describing is more about group dynamics in a way than martial arts. For example, many people will leave one church for another because of the organizational structure. In many ways, traditional martial arts resembles traditional religion...
Rokas, you are right on the mark. I train Wing Chun, and we suffer from all that in our association. Hell, just check my byline. But that's changing in some schools. Guys like Alan Orr are taking Wing Chun concepts, mixing them with MMA and pressure testing the result. Some of it works. I still train the old way, but at least I tell my couple of remaining students to test everything they learn, and please, call me by my first name, or ..."coach". Been in this since the 70s, and frankly, I've had it with all the "sifu" crap.
Glad to hear it 🙏
Systema practitioner here.
I'm very fortunate because i've found a group of nice and experienced people, my teacher is just some years older than me and we like to mock each other during every training session, he also has a nice broad experience, with boxing, budo and other stuff.
For like 4 years there was this 60yo guy, he's also a teacher in a different style of systema, budo and tkd.
I've learned a lot from them, especially from their tales about over self confident "masters" and their students.
And for my personal experience i've encountered a bunch of thai/kick boxer and TMA practitioners.
I think that the problem is the frog in the well and the dunning-kruger effect.
I don't know if you've heard about the story of the frog in the well, TL;DR is a frog who lives in a well (duh) and thinks that all the water he sees is the greatest amount possible, even when a turtle explains what an ocean is.
The same principle applies to the martial arts, if you keep practicing the same array of techniques without other experiences you start to think that the world starts and ends with your style.
The dunning-Kruger effect is a known psychological effect of a cognitive bias of illusory superiority, and this is a key point to keep in mind when dealing with elitists in martial arts.
Simply speaking they don't want to even think that their time was wasted and there's a lot of idealization instilled in the minds of a lot of teachers where their style is the stronger.
TL;DR
You're an elitist when you' ass hasn't been kicked by 3-4 different styles
In traditional martial arts there is a discipline which is similar to that of the military. Black belt is like a general.
I remember seeing the Machada brothers gym in LA. Nicest guys ever but holy fuck your gonna feel like a pretzel after rolling with them.
I will also say that you are slightly sipping the cool aid in regards to bjj and combat sports. I’ve been following your journey for a bit and it’s been really enjoyable watching the evolution. There are plenty of bjj belt wearers who think that bjj can handle any situation, which is only true if you cross train in other arts to supplement what could be called a “fight” (something so situational it can’t really be quantified)
As a judo black belt and bjj brown belt, let me also say that traditional arts vary widely. Judo and kendo, for example, incorporate intense pressure testing every practice session with sparring after technique training. whereas some Kung fu style might never. Would you call them both traditional arts? I think that within traditional arts some are much more connected to reality than others, and they shouldn’t be disregarded. Thanks for a thought provoking video!
Having trained in both TMA and now BJJ I believe most problems are born out of “ insecurity “ in simple terms fighting arts that are based if fighting competition rarely have to question effectiveness. A wrestler knows exactly what he can do as does a boxer ( BJJ , Muay Thai etc ) as a young man in KUGB Shotokan the fighting squad could ALL fight and did so in open competition , same when I moved to kickboxing . In short insecurity which often heavily enforces ritual and the fantasy of “ deadly technique “ ( utter rubbish - I got lost in the as a young man ) is based on lack of a trial proven fighting ability . I still love all the arts , just an old man’s( 52 ) point of view . OSS 🥋🙏🏻❤️
Great video brah. You hit the nail on the head. I studied Judo from 4 to 15. I then wrestled. Then I joined the military and served as a martial arts instructor but I never got my black belt. I was just one belt shy. When I returned home and found a school. The school wanted to change the way I fought to match their ideal. I was drinking the Kool aide but my wife wasn't. I did my research thanks to youtube and decided to leave the organization. So it happens. You just have to understand how to watch out for it.
ima go out on a limb here and take a wild guess jim carrey's character from IN LIVING COLOR wuz the basis 4 MASTER KEN.
Martial Arts Journey: Warns about the danger of generalizing.
Also Martial arts journey: Hey, I'm gonna make a video that completely generalizes martial arts schools!
Me: Most of these are just signs of a bad school.
i could be wrong but i think that we many time we used the word "traditional" we actually mean "cultural" in the martial arts world
Very interesting video. Thanks for posting.
I have had a couple students do that and come to me to ask questions about their life and how to deal with certain things, most often I refer them to a professional on that topic, be it an MD. to the proper teacher. Trying to be more than you are will get you in trouble for sure. Encouraging questions by all and practical training on hands, learning to be hit and not be afraid to be hit so you are not flinching and much more are LOST to modern arts claiming to be Traditional. I prefer the term "Old School" as those masters still learn and never stop humbling themselves. Egos and arrogance lead to more often bad things in life and loss of friends etc. Honey will always get you future than Vinegar I was always told.
Having practiced Iaido and Kendo for nearly 20 years now, I will say that respect and discipline are indeed pivotal to proper martial arts practice. I must point out that I personally have never had a master who advised me on marriage or business, or anything else outside martial arts practice for that matter. I think that maybe you had some really bad luck with choosing dojos in your youth. That being said, the most valid point you make is that we should always maintain out common sense; that is absolutely true.
That was a nice essay. I mostly agree, and I think it's important for all traditional schools to consider giving up some of their traditions, if they want to teach the general public. Traditional martial arts schools don't really train units of soldiers anymore, not even in their countries of origin. One needs to go the military or a police academy for that. I mean, ways to easily keep class organized are great, but ways to quickly inflate an ego are not necessary.
BJJ of today isn't what it began as. It's an effective combination of the best of the martial arts. They kick strike and grapple. It's effective in competition and SD. OSU and respect for the evolution of the martial arts and sciences. 🐯
Hi, I don't know if this is of interest, but it would be nice to see you interview Iain Abernethy on his thoughts about practical karate and the roll of kata. 🥋 I have seen your other interview, for this, I would like a interview on what traditional martials arts have to do to keep up in an ever changing environment and what traditional martial arts have to offer if done right. 🥋 I would find it interesting since you mentioned pressure testing in karate, and Iain have taken a different approach to it all than most other karate instructors. 🥋
We don't have belt even belt ranks.
"What's your highest form/drill?"
That denotes our "rank"
Whenever you have a belt system it will signify who is more "superior" including in BJJ ... it is when the "superior" dude starts being superior in other fields then it becomes wrong
Its real! There is a racist side of it too as many black and brown people experience it from Asian and white teachers. We sometimes do it too each other too as black and brown people.
My martial arts experience has been almost entirely beem from the prospective of a step child like experience as most of my instructor family and friends trained with them so i would constantly get the scraps. I was never discourage as im a asshole and in due time most if the family drop out and i was left when the new students came on.
The worse experience was probably at the BJJ and Muay Thai school they hated that i trained already and would constantly kick me out for not being a victim or whipping board. I empty my cup but wouldnt let them abuse me as they tried to on many occassions. I made friends with them when the plan backfired and i show mercy and let them go. When i finally learn how to defend there technique they kick me out permanently. There isnt much room for free thinking as most instructor have to keep face and if you even by accident up show them you have to go. Funny thing is i pride myself in being a discipline student
Honestly it depends on the martial art. Boxing and TKD practitioners tend to be more humble, but god are karate and bjj people absolutely insufferable in my experience.
Is hapkido an effective martial arts, I’ve done taekwondo for four years (quitted) boxing and kick boxing and I am a noobie at BJJ, I’ve asked around if it is and all I got was all martial arts are effective in a fight which is not true ( examples being aikido and tai chi ) I just had an argument that not all martial arts are not for self defense, I enjoy watching ur videos even though I was aware of some martial arts not being effective as others. It’s good to see ur perspective on martial arts.
I chose this video to resubscribe, because I think it addresses my my main concern I was having with your channel awhile ago. The video where you challenged people to debate you on a video seemed like an attempt to justify yourself on an arbitrary means that gave yourself the privilege of forum. The video where you talked to that one teacher in the cafe who tried to use some philosophy and his position in martial arts to disparage AllLivesMatter and non-conservative, that was him using his elite sense of self to be reductive another social perspective which he was not an authority on (not a blackbelt in politics).
This video gave me hope that you actually do mean to follow through with the demeanor of the channel to be open to and question everything, rather than forming ego around being egoless and "rational."
Tbf head instructors at traditional places are usually old men who maybe used to be good at sparring but now even if they wanted too can't kick higher than shin level
In my experience hierarchical behaviour is rampant in Jiu-Jitsu. I think the pressure-testing aspect of the sport regulates its a bit but it is still often awful.
depends solely on the teacher, not on the martial arts.
Wife Husband But you do realize this is common in TMA right?
in a martial arts were teknic is constantly testet in sparing there is no need to discuss what is wrong or right, if it works it works. also in a martial arts were you spar a lot you need to be friendly or else you wont have any friends to play with.
Sorry but you have a misunderstanding about the sempai/kohai relationship. This idea permeates Japanese society and is not just in martial arts. The concept is that someone senior to you is a source of guidance and they are respected because they have been where you are now. Someone senior to you pulls you up, and he is likewise pulled up by someone senior to him. It is not elitist at all, because everyone is senior to someone and junior to someone else. Everyone helps each other in an upward path. Unfortunately, you were exposed to a perverted version of this and I have seen it too. Good video!
That is what it's meant to be but not how it's actually used.
Years ago I went to learn Aikido.
The one thing I remember was that nobody wants to partner with a novice. 😥
Sorry you had a bad experience. Where I train, myself and other black belts love working with the inexperienced. I prefer working with them at seminars.
Many MMA or BJJ schools have folks who do not want to spend their precious time with a newbie. It is beneath many of them.
You tackled an important issue for me. I recently had a Problem with my sabumnim because I behaved like he was Master of everything. Therefore I put him In an uncomfortable position. Undue subordination can be dysfunctional and disrespectful too. Im glad he is close to beeing a zen Master already, so the lesson was relatively easy on me to learn. With a Shitty Master, I'd have had set myself up for abuse.
Great video Rokas! I'm always so glad I can get a fresh perspective from you. By the way from what movie/tv series is the clip in the beginning of the video of the guy in the black gi?
Gearóid Éamonn Ocslaigh The Art of Self Defense
@@MusicloverX88 Oh I still wanna watch that. Is it any good?
Gearóid Éamonn Ocslaigh no idea I legit googled guy who plays Mark Zuckerberg since I recognized him in the clip and this popped up. Looks like a comedy from what the trailer showed.
I thought that was Jesse Eisenburg but my eyesight is bad so i wasn't sure if it really was him or not. I'll go watch the film and tell you if it's good or not😁
Teacher say no school, don’t make popular and fame. no money to sustain. Teacher instructs at his place of business, a simple tea house.
We have vastly different views on what it means to be a Black Belts...
A black belt is like earning a high school diploma or may be a GED depending on the Dojo.
Elitism in traditional martial arts? Last time I checked it was Gracie Jiu Jitsu and MMA that claims to be superior to everything else, I never heard this from Bujinkan or Aikido or Karate.
Very nice approach. Congratulations.
How Elitism in MMA ruined martial arts period.
Aikido isn't considered a "traditional" martial art it is classified as a gendai (or modern) martial art. Belts are actually rare in koryu/ traditional martial arts, the belt system got started by Judo and spread to other arts, or the kyu/dan system.
The sempai/kohai system is ingrained in Japanese culture in general not just martial arts. What you are describing is merely a difference between how westerners view western verse asian culture when it comes to martial arts.
Judo, kendo, some karate, are gensai, or modern and not necessarily traditional.
Given this how exactly are you defining the word "traditional martial art".
It's a reflection of east asian culture where hierarchy is central
The "elitism" you're talking about stems from a form of military hierarchy. These arts were training to aid a person in protecting themselves, their family, and their country. I modern day, if the instructor seems to misuse their position or overstep their bounds, that's on the individual. I trained TKD for several years and I found our instructor put a heavy burden on the black belts to help lead the classes. We trained outside of the normal class times and spent the classes supervising and helping others. Didn't really feel elite. I see more elitist mentality from MMA practitioners looking down on tradition marital arts. I've trained Martial arts for 18 years and I have been training at an MMA gym for the past 4 years. I hear the guys talk shit all the time about other martial arts. A backkick to the liver has been known to change their minds a lit though.