Sony Hi8 tape was total garbage. Lets see why
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2019
- Sony made a lot of great gadgets, and even made great recording tape with one exception, their early Hi8 tapes sucked big time. Sure they looked great initially, but time has not been friendly with them. If you have family memories on video tape the time to archive it now. This is especially important for stuff recorded on Sony tape as I will show in this demo of some of my older Sony tapes.
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I have a 8mm tape that my parents recorded in 1994 and it still plays perfectly.
So do I. Fuji, maxell and TDK. I also have a bunch of Sony tapes that are bad.
The 2 tapes from 1994 that I have are TDK and BASF, I just checked.
As long as there kept away from direct sunlight, dust, moisure and magnets they play perfectly. I have 15 year old tapes that still play with no issue too.
Amazing that everybody nowadays has a camera on their phone that outperforms a $12,000 camera from back in the day.
Common consumer still film cameras back to the 50s beat general digital consumer cameras for quite a while though.
Likewise some mechanical/analog devices are worse now, and the typical quality of many items(like power tools) has gotten worse since about the 90s.
Personally I don't like to think about that. I hate that everything that I grew up with can now be rep[laced by a dam phone. They are an insult to my childhood and the things I grew up with.
Hi there, thank you for this upload! I have a Sony Hi-8 camcorder, when i rewatch the tapes I've previously recorded on, certain segments of the video will either cut-out-to-blue or give a delayed image or glitch during the video. I've transferred the footage to digital and noticed the delay carries over, though when i pause/ff/rew the video at the time of the occurrence i get the image i had lost. i'm curious if that's a sign of either dust/particle build up on the camera head or tape reel, or an effect from moving the camera around too much while recording (action filmers, if you have this problem lmk) ?
12voltvids: Sony Hi8 tape was total garbage.
RUclips: Sony ad before video starts.
LOL
@12voltvids Do you recommend any Maxell or Fuji 8mm tape, because the Maxell tapes I find are also metal type tapes. What should I search for?
Maxell and Fuji tapes have been fine.
Do you think it could be tape hydrolysis thats causing it to disntigrate ?
Hi, this has nothing to do with the video but can i record with hi8 tapes on my video 8 camera??
Is there a particular period of Sony Hi8 tapes that this is most evident with?
Hi Dave, love the content. I am trying to archive a Fuji Hi8 tape, with noticeable mold on the tape. While playing the tape sheared and ripped. I took it apart trimmed it to a clean area decent enough and tried to splice it together. The tape is so brittle it just tears apart while trying to rewind it. Any advice or is it toast?
Mold is a problem on 8 mm tapes. If there's not much mold you might be able to spool it from one reel to the other and back by hand. If mold is severe there are some places that will de-mold your tape but they charge an absolute Fortune. I've been quoted as much as $500 per tape. Needless to say I've never had a client that is wanted to spend that kind of money they just write it off and lose the memories.
On the topic of Hi8 transfer: I have 2 Digital8 DCR-TRV520 camcorders from 2000. Same model, got them from a former police detective.
They both have problems. One of them isn't too bad, the only problem is that it will just start zooming in for no reason. I think it's a problem with the ribbon cable maybe. It will still transfer over Firewire just fine and play tapes.
The other one has a major problem: The Firewire connector is broken, so it's basically useless for transferring video. Everything else works fine.
Would it be possible to replace the Firewire connector? Could I order a new one online or do I have to use the connector from the other camera. How would I disassemble the camcorder?
I have a Canon Elura 65 (MiniDV) with the exact same problem of constantly zooming in. Never got around to fixing it; but I liked this one because it had all the ports (usb, rca, s-video, firewire, mic-in, and sd card).
I found out about this the hard way around 15 years ago. I shot about 70 hours of video for a documentary on Hi8 tape around 1993-94 and transferred all the master tapes to digital. All of the Sony-branded Hi8 tapes I used for the project had this problem.
You and everyone else.
Are the Sony tapes from the late 1990s still garbage (like 1999 or 2000)? Or does this apply to the earliest Hi8 tapes from the early to mid 1990s?
Facts love the channle
Hi8 was an analogue video signal with a digital audio track, how do they compare to older Video8's for reliability?
8mm and Hi-8 were both analog video formats that uses Fm audio like hi fi vcrs. They uses a mono signal initially, and then added a second carrier and used a matrix like FM stereo to record the L=R on one carrier and the L-R on the second carrier to maintain compatibility with mono machines.
All 8mm uses a 210' tape wrap. Video uses the first 180' of drum space and the extra 30' that the tape was in contact was used to record PCM digital audio on equipment that supported it. This extra reserved space could be dubbed after the fact. Time code could also live in this reserved space.
The quality of your videos I think are a lot clearer now you have decided to use 60fps. Improves the capture quality very nicely! Great job!
I upgraded my internet plan to unlimited so bandwidth is no longer an issue as it was getting quite expensive to go over the limit. 10.00 per 50 gig
There's something special about the picture quality of VHS.
Ya, it SUCKS. Only 220 lines of horizontal resolution and about 80 of color resolution.
@@12voltvids doesn't matter to me if it's technically inferior to modern video formats, I just like the look of it.
@@MarshMellowChronic
By all means use it. Need any tapes? I have hundreds I want to get rid of.
I agree , providing there is enough light . Analog is the smoothest compression , forget the math , its the LOOK after all .
Excellent for recording music too
@@shaun9107 Smooth as is lack of detail. Us professional producers paid many thousand dollars to capture detail.
Is this a common issue with their mini dv tapes as well? Might explain why my all my footage becomes so distorted. If you were to use one of these bad tapes in your camcorder, can you ruin your camera? Looking for ways to salvage this.. do i need to clean the head in my camera then?
DV tapes used metal evaporates tapes. The problematic ones were the high grade metal particle tapes.
I have a Sony hi-8 camera and would like to get tapes, do someone know where i can buy some?
I have TONS of Hi8 tapes with a maximum of 3 passes on them, bulk erased available.
I used Hi8 as a production format. Most were recorded on once, then the tape was dumped to the computer for editing and the tape put away.
Have you considered "baking" the tapes? I know they do that with audio tape that is suffering from binder failure. I'm not sure if it works with video.
Yes, in fact. There's entire video formats where baking may be needed just to get one more play out of them, and these tapes are headed that way too.
Thanks for the information about Sony tapes! I'm going right now and check; either way I'm going to rush the transfer of my tapes to DVD's before any more time elapses.
Fortunately I have very few Sony tapes in my collection of 8mm tapes. For old open reel tapes that have the sticky tape syndrome it’s recommended to bake the tape prior to digitizing. This does work fortunately. I’m just curious if this is would be a possibility to make the transfer a little less painful of those affected Sony tapes?
8mn is very thin tape and it is metal tape. Don't know what baking will do to the tape. Never tried it.
@@12voltvids Thats true. You scared me pretty good with this video. I have about 30 tapes that I need to digitize. I think Sony tapes must have been more expensive back in the day. I only have a couple with the majority of the tapes being Fuji, Memorex and TDK. I also have some 4 track reel to reel tapes to digitize and have been reading up on the baking process. Ampex recomends 130 F for 2 to 8 hours depending on the tape thickness. Best to experiment on tapes that can be destroyed first.
www.radioworld.com/industry/baking-magnetic-recording-tape
Is there anyway to make it look better? Was thinking of filming short films with this format
Analog video tape looks like crap compared to my odern he digital camcorders. Even the cheapest cell phone can shoot a substantially better picture then 8mm/hi8 and VHS/svhs
Analog video can do better quality than tape. If you compare the composite output of any digital player or camera and a VCR or hi/video 8 camera you'll see a clear diference. And because of the many inperfections of a mechanically accessed media, capture devices do have a hard time triying to capture the tapes, with many dropouts and blue screens in the middle.
What about TDK metal particle tapes?
This is a response to a comment, deleted by viewer.
"William Schwartz
Who in their right mind pays $12,000 in 1996 for a broadcast type camera just for family videos? If I heard correctly that is crazy"
Answer, probably nobody. I was in the commercial video business, shooting corporate videos, television commercials, Music Videos, News stories, high end wedding videos and film to video transfers. For commercials and music videos we rented a Betacam SP camera because the editing was generally done in a post facility and that is what the wanted it on.
For corporate, weddings and news gathering I shot on my 12,000 professional Hi-8. The reason was for quality. I was getting 3,000 to shoot a wedding, and I needed my quality to be head and shoulders above my competition, which were generally shooting on an Panasonic AG450 or 455. Some used JVC GY-X2 camera which was closer in quality to the EVW300 as it was a 3CCD but Sony had an edge on the JVC, better low light and because it was 8mm and not full size VHS was considerably lighter which is important for the operator when being carried around from early morning to early morning the next day. 12lbs vs 22lbs with a better picture, similar price. No brainier.
We had all our home movies on Hi8 going back to 1991, spent hours and hours and hours transferring them all to digital a few years ago, had to buy a new (used) camera to do it as ours had bit the dust. Non-metal Sony tapes always stored in a box in a closet in a house with central air. Wanted to transfer everything before the tapes deteriorated or were accidentally lost or destroyed, now all the kids have digital copies.
All 8mm tape is metal. There were different grades. The high grade tapes may have looked better initially but have not held up well.
How did you transfer them?
Really enjoyed your footage! Beautiful British Columbia! Gotta love our province! - i wonder if those neighborhoods still put up all those lights during christmas!
Dave, have you tried baking the tapes? It theoretically stops the sticking and clogging temporarily (for a few days).
That's great... I have a lot of Sony 8mm tapes... But maybe I have some time, they're all 2005 and newer (up to 2009), recorded in Digital8 format. Sony Hi8 and Digital8 tapes were very expensive at that time, so I switched to TDK at some point. Are those OK?
The TDK, Maxell and Fugi tapes I have used have all been OK. Just transferring a Maxell right now. Over 1 hour in and no problems. Recorded in 91. Problem has been with Sony HG and Hi8 MP tapes mostly. The evaporated tapes have more of a drop out problem.
Here in the UK, Scotch branded tapes were pretty notorious. You could always tell if a VCR had been primarily used with Scotch branded tapes as the upper drum would have a dull finish and the heads would usually be toast. I'm sure it doubled-up as 200-grit sandpaper if you were running low!
I've only ever owned VHS and S-VHS machines, so I always tended to favour JVC S-VHS tapes, even for standard VHS recording. BASF EMTEC were also pretty good for standard VHS, even their 5-hour E300 offering - always useful to have for recording a TV series onto.
Also have a few TDK D-VHS tapes that used to work very well in S-VHS mode..albeit with non-standard tape lengths! With regards to TDK in general, I tended to find their normal VHS and S-VHS offerings kinda struggled with blue colours - always somewhat of a litmus test when it came to video tapes.
Scotch tapes were great. They kept the heads clean!
Sounds like they've got sticky-shed syndrome. Could these Sony Video-8 tapes be baked before trying to play them. Like they sometimes do to treat old audio tapes that have degraded like this, and the binder is breaking down.
Not a sticky shed problem. The binder fails and the coating comes off. When it gets really bad it will literally peel off and you end up with the surface of the tape all over the inside of the machine.
@@12voltvids I'm thinking it could be still worth trying to bake them. That's what tape baking is supposed to do, to temporarily harden the binder to try to stop the coating from going all over the head. It is only a temporary treatment. But I believe that's what studios have done sometimes, to archive irreplaceable master tapes that have degraded.
I have many old Sony Beta tapes that shed too much oxide and clog heads, along with many dropouts of course. When they shed, the actual tape becomes trasparent in some areas and you can see tape oxide dust all over the place inside the VCR. Never had that problem with TDK and Maxell tapes from the same era.
still new to beta and vcrs in general, but i noticed that my first betamax tape i got recently (blank), it was fine. i got these dynamicrons (blanks) and the machine itself seems to make more noise, louder and sounds weaker when those tapes are in there. they are all sony, the first one isn’t a dynamicron tho (still sony) and that one seems to be fine.
Yes I have done a few small test shots and it is as good as new. For my other camera is the Sony PXW-X70
Any Sony tape made after 2001 will be fine, right?
thanks for the info Dave. I have alot of Sony Hi8 tapes from the 90's too. Just have a question, I have a Sony GV-8 video walkman that wont turn on. It gets 5.9 volts at the slider power switch. Do leaking caps stop them turning on too? thanks
It's likely. You might as well check them just in case.
@@rawr51919 I think it will sit as a display unit for now. Just picked up a GV500 fully working on ebay.
I own a hitachi hi8/8mm camcorder that my grandfather owned before his unfortunate passing. The hi8 tapes he owned are going on about 20 years old (he used them in mostly 99 to 2003) the only issues I’ve found is a magenta tint at the top. The tape is maxwell 8mm. I can’t reuse the tape it seems. It turns to static when I record over previous footage
Yeah that's inexcusable. Wonder if Sony mfg their own tape or had a second company do it.
Sony almost always made their own tape and, usually, they are fairly good.
But, they did have some crappy ones, too. In addition to the tapes 12voltvids is talking about, Sony also had their UHG line of Dynamicron tapes for Beta and VHS, and those weren't good, either. Initially, they were excellent, but then they developed a tendency to shed excessive amounts of oxide as they age to the point where a head clog within seconds was all but certain. Meanwhile, their standard grade Dynamicron tapes are reasonably fine for their advanced age.
@@Watcher3223 exactly the uhd tapes were horrendous. There was a disclaimer on every tape warning about no warranty of any kind because tape can and does fail.
knowing how sony does their stuff they most likely designed it and all then had some small company produce them, and most likely said company did a crap job with the tape
On the reel to reel side of tape, most of the Sonys, despite being good back in the day, have also turned into sticky, shedding crap. Their audio cassettes are very good though.
I've had the Sony video 8 tape. Since 1990. And they still play today. I have never had any problem with them.
And also The recordings I made in 1990 still played just as good today. It could have been a bad batch of tapes that you may have bought
Guarantee they do not play as well. The color will have faded for starters. No way to avoid it.
Now I know why Sony tapes become bluescreen on my machine, it fails to lock on to signal because the tapes are deteriorated and nothing is shown, but the time code goes on.
A interesting thing is that audio works and image can be seen in FF and REW.
My sony SDT-9000 also has a brush, but DSR-2000AP only a foam wheel.
are you sure?it could be a capacitor fail
Oh boy... And I got a plenty of the HMPX tapes...
Was any issues with 1/2" VHS?
BASF tapes that were the pure chrome formula were pretty hard on video heads.
Plenty. There were many counterfeit VHS tapes that flooded the market and caused constant head clogging.
12voltvids I used them for videos and DAT. They have been sitting for several years. I have them in a semi controlled environment. I'm almost afraid to check after seeing your video.
I feel your pain. I also do tape archiving, I've been having trouble with Sony 8mm tapes just today! Every few minutes it's: stop the recording, eject the tape, clean the heads, then record the next few minutes and repeat all over again. Also have a maxell that squeaks as the tape surface has gone sticky.
I have put my prices up for 8mm because of the extra work. I actually put my camera in the studio and filmed myself doing the transfer so when the guy whined about the price I said "watch this"
I may have to put up my prices too. Even open reel audio tape is getting a problem, the newer the tape the more likely it is to go sticky, especially ampex. Older tape is fine.
@@meurighailstone1999 As these tapes become harder and harder to play, and as working machines to play them on become fewer and farther between prices go up.
Sucks to be the procrastinator that could have had them done for 10 a tape that is paying 20 now.
Too bad so sad I say. One of my favorite sayings. That and "these things happen"
Thanks for the Sony tips...
Looks like I got away lightly, the ordinary 8mm Sony MP90s I used briefly in the 1990s are still fine along with some BASF & Scotch equivalents....All transferred now thank goodness.
I found this video via Oddity Archive. Great informative video. I've just acquired a 1998 Video 8 HR Handycam, and both of the tapes are TDK. I'd image these will be fine?
TDK made some of the best Hi-8 tape out there.
@@NJRoadfan I'll buy some more of those then.
I would expect ordinary brands to have problems, not sony, that's just mad :-(.
For vhs recordings i used many types.
I purchsed some Basf chromium tapes and they seemed great but after sitting unplayed for a while they played back with hundreds of dropouts/dots on the screen.
The tape actually had visible dots on it, after ditching one cassette i left the rest in the front room.
The room heating was a little higher, and the dots vanished on every cassette and played perfect!!.
Never seen that effect before on any other tape brand, really odd.
BASH chrome video tape had many problems. The biggest was it is very abrasive, and many people had to replace the heads in their VCRs after a short time. Panasonic heads were the worst hit. Many wore under warranty and were replaced for free the first time. Then panasonic issued a service bulletin warning about premature hear wear with BASF pure chrome tapes.
In that case i was lucky it didn't kill the heads in my old learning machine, the Piano key JVC 3320ek, all metal chassis and if it was dropped the floor would be badly damaged :-D.
The machines processing was on seperate Elna pcbs.
The only thing that pissed me off was the dc motor driving the video drum, the picture would sway or breath if the motor was imperfect.
@@12voltvids On top of that BASF tape simply doens't age well. Their chromium dioxide binders were more brittle than average, they shed like crazy, and they get really sticky. Even when new, BASF video tape was inferior to the likes of Maxell and TDK. Ironically, so far as my observations go, when BASF stopped making their own tape in Germany and started having their video cassettes outsourced from Korea, they were better.
@@12voltvids There VHS was no excuse . the audio tapes are mint .
A worn out VHS tape could not look as bad as BASF
@@shaun9107 Just goes to prove that Geraman engineering is not what it is cracked up to be. I have had a few German cars, and they were the biggest pieces of crap I ever drove. I understand that old British cars are also a steaming pile of crap but I have never owned one so I can't comment on that.
Hello Dave, This is very sad for many who have these Sony Hi8 tapes. I really hope, that they can save their tapes before it is too late. Kind regards, Ronny
Just got 3 more in from same era and same problems. One of the reasons I haven't posted much new stuff over the past few weeks is because I have been stuck watching boring home videos making sure they play and I can get the video off them.
That's very frustrating. I had the problem with a cheap VHS tape from Sony. After a few seconds, the picture was totally noisy. I like to use TDK and Fuji tapes. I used to have Video 8 tapes from Sony. But I do not know if the tapes were good or not.
Interesting video , thanks. 😊
I have a dvd ram disk that I cant get anyone to transfer, it came with the Panasonic dvd burner that I had , I loaded it up with music and now I cant use it anymore
I have DVD RAM equipment.
If you send me that disk I can rip it and send you the files back.
cool vid! i hope video8 MP from sony isn't that bad over the period of time, as i got into old camcorders and i quite enjoy it. on the other hand i will prolly transfer them on a regular basis (that's the plan at least). i can only say that vid8 maxell MPs from the very late 90's hold very good, was able to enjoy seeing myself as a little kid without problems. cheers!
The Sony mp hi8 tapes are the ones I have had the most trouble with. Tdk and Maxwell good.
I had the same proble with this.I wondered why?Thanks.
Kinda scares me a bit, in a way, because technically, all magnetic tape recording medium in all formats will eventually end up like this potentially? VHS, 8mm, umatic, beta, VHS-C, hell maybe even cassette tapes too. I hear Reel to Reel which is one of the oldest consumer formats is already suffering this to some degree. Thoughts? Imagine all the computer archive backup tapes. Weeeeeee.... I still have some of the cassette tapes I have had since childhood in the 90s, and luckily they are still holding up well. Even the cheap 99 cent drugstore Gemini ones too.
Correct it will all fail eventually.
I got a shirt that I never wore from the electric parade ,not sure if they do that anymore.
No, but it's reportedly coming back.
i wonder how many people have these tapes that are unplayable for this reason and don't even know it.
There are tons and tons of them out there. I just found a bunch more that will be difficult to get the recordings off.
I was waiting for one of those laser beams to hit the planet and blow it up, darn blue screen. Now we'll never know.
Alameda Repair Shop What planet? That's the moon man.
Why didn't you use a capture card for your demonstration?
Most capture cards generate a 30p output which is pure garbage for analog video, it can even do 60p if you use a good deinterlacing method.
@@binarix128 Actually analog does 60i, dividing the fields from 30. 60p is slow motion. 30p makes sense to me for modern transfer
@@video2000ification but you can take the original 60i video and de interlace it with e.g. YADIF, which will produce a 60p output, and render the video at 60p; if for whatever reason you need a 30p output you can skip every two frames from the 60p video or de interlace the video interpolating the fields. But the correct way to trasnsfer analog video is by keeping the video interlaced so then it can be de-interlaced by the player, or generating 60p output using a proper algorithm.
The thing with (consumer) capture devices is that many of them are "hard wired" with garbage de-interlacing methods like field blending or field discard.
@@binarix128 ...yes, especially on the timeline
Speaking of tapes, I happen to buy the NOS TDK 8mm tapes from yard sale, and it's totally blank never used it because, I never had the Sony 8mm camcorder where I don't have any night vision for the cameras for to see these storm's best action course including rain and lightning.
Now besides the Hi8 tapes, VHSC to VHS adaptor aren't reliable, because what happens is, when constantly use the VHSC tapes to VHS adaptor in the VCR by play back the tapes, no matter when fast forward or rewind the tape, the binder would damage on each end, and would cause a picture distortion and wouldn't let you see the good picture at all, leaving you the unusual tape warp and no way to repair or recover the tape to play it back by archiving the video, and make a DVD or Blu-Ray for the souvenirs.
On the other hand, using the VHSC camcorder to playback the video tapes shouldn't be that problem while archiving the video to your PC or HDD without risking damage the tape including the binder.
Now to VHS, in two days ago, I was archiving the video including, Glacier National Park, Volcanos Volcanic Fury, Simitar's Speed Demons, Simitar's Digger's and Dozer's Great Adventure, Simitar's Sandsation Vol. 1 and 2, and Profina (including Incharge Institute America) Finance Company.
that brush cleaner is v nice i had to bake 40% of the hi8 tapes i just transferred was a nightmare
It is kind of funny you were evaluating a Hi8 camcorder for pro usage one year after DV launched :)
Another funny thing about your machine is M-load, which Sony has been using since Betacam bvw-200/300/400 because it allowed for more compact mechanism than U-load. Sony developed the mechanism to move the cassette onto and over the drum, and I think this idea has since been used for 8-mm mecha and for MiniDV mecha.
Regarding tapes, recently I had to digitize a couple dozen Video8 and Hi8 tapes from 1992 to 1995, mostly regular Video8, mostly Sony MP tapes - no issues. A couple of Hi8 tapes were TDK, no issues. I have two "professional" HMPX tapes NOS in wrapper which I wanted to try to record onto, now I am worried :) I've heard that the binder issues were resolved by the early 1990s, but you are saying that your cassettes are from the mid-1990s.
There is no comparison between the evw300 and the dxcvx1000.
The 300 blew the doors off if it and pretty much every consumer DV camera due to the 4:1:1 color space of DV. I eventually caved and went for a vx1000 but it was pale by comparison. I had betacam at this time as well for commercial work. I could intee cut betacam footage with hi8 from the 300 and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Cutting with dv footage however stood out like a sore thumb. I had a vx1000 but didn't use it much due to the unlocked audio problem. I went full DV in 2000 with a JVC gydv500 and canon gl2 . Then hdv in 2004 and then pulled the plug on the commercial production business in 2005 as i started working shift work so i couldn't take commitments a year in advance and then not be able to get the day off work, my 2nd cameraman was too busy with family life to be reliable. Canceled a wedding shoot and left me in a jam. Final nail in coffin so to speak was when my business partner ended up in a coffin. That was the final straw and i stopped shooting weddings and corporate videos and just did the archiving stuff.
@@12voltvids I cannot believe Hi8 looked better than DV. Hi8 has lower luminance resolution, and its chrominance resolution is garbage. Both the EVW300 and VX1000 have 3CCD pickup, and I believe both have 1/3-inch sensors. No, really cannot believe it :) Although before DV came along, Hi8 was indeed the best of consumer-grade formats, and I've read similar opinions that the first generation looks almost as good as Betacam (original Betacam I guess, not SP or DigiBeta).
@@ConsumerDV DV used color space 4:1:1 which had very poor color resolution. The evw300 had 1/2" sensors which performed better than the 1/3 of the vx1000. I had both. Chroma was better on hi8 but lower SNR. What did look good was the evw300 connected to digital 8 recorder.
@@12voltvids I am blown away with this statement! 4:1:1 means 180 color samples in each line, while Hi8 resolves less than 60. Maybe in low light 1/2-inch sensors made a difference, but in good light the VX1000 should have been miles better. Oh, well, cannot argue with your past experience as you remember it.
Connecting the EVW300 to a digital recorder effectively made it a digital camera, so no question there.
@@ConsumerDV consumer DV cameras had really shitty front ends. The 300 into a DV or digital 8 deck looked superrior to both my canon gl2 and Sony vx1000. Much better front end and superrior glass. The evw300 onto tape looked better then either of the DV cameras I had. That was one of the reasons i dropped the dollars for the JVC gydv500. You can't however compare analog to digital. 4:1:1 is quite poor for color rendering. Lots of detail in lumamance but color is pretty weak. 1/4 of the lumamance pixels. 180 pixels as you said but analog is not measured in pixels as it is a continuous signal.
I've been using the Sony camcorder to transfer hi8 tapes to digital, I haven't run into this issue so far.Seems like only a matter of time.
I bought a box of those 'Professional' Sony tapes - they immediately closed the head of the camcorder. So much for professional quality. hahah
Hahaha. Ya so did I. I bought a box of p6-60hmpx. Worst tape i ever used. I still have 3 or 4 unopened. Sony said they fixed the problem but they didn't offer to replace the ones i had or reimburse me for loss due to tape failure rather point me to the warranty where it states they they will not be responsible for any loss of revenue for tape failure. Tell that to the couple who's wedding was a mess of dropouts when i used one on my vx3 on a steadycam Jr. All the nice tracking shots of them strolling around the park was lost due to a clogged head during record and no warning that the recording was no good. Fortunately i was able to get enough but they asked for the raw footage and i didn't have the walk around shots that something funny happened (the bride slipped and fell on her ass) and I had it on camera. They wanted the shot for a blooper reel and it didn't record. I bought the short load tapes because the 60s were supposed to be a heavier more reliable tape. It was just as bad if not worse. 😮😮😮😮😮 😢😢😮
I use the data tapes that you can get for computers and I got like literally a whole big box of them found out they worked in my camera and I basically bought the whole Supply from free Geeks. they record mini DV so I'm cool
Yeah I have a pile of sony 3/4" tape I still use, new old stock. In my experience sony Umatic seemed like it was getting dirt embossed into it, drop-outs that don't grind off and you can see a little impression or maybe also scratch on the surface of the tape. Just seems a bit fragile. I was recently testing a 3/4" deck and a sony 20 minute small cassette 3/4" tape came to a halt with a loud squeak in a BVU-800 which nearly made it's analog tension servo system throw the tape off the guides and then yank it and pinch it and run it over and then crank one of the reel motors into full maximum, but it recovered just in time. I don't know what the cause is yet, it's a back burner thing. Could be I got grease on the tape when I was repairing the deck and it contaminated the cassette. But the sound was like that high pitched squeak 3/4" machines make with sticky shed tape.
Ampex made some pretty bad umatic tape too.
I don't use tape for anything except dat for temporary storage logging radio for copy to computer
@@12voltvids Yeah I mean Umatic ampex 187 (maybe and / or 197) tape. Made the death squeak and head clogged the heads every minute. After baking it played perfect and amazingly the tape surface is pristine perfect (checked with a good lens), I mean like I don't know where some minimal damage had been.
6:20 That bear is cute. Looks so happy. That tape format though is very crappy. We used the High 8 in our "Broadcast" class at school and had constant quality issues. When I finally broke into broadcasting in 1999 they were using DVCPro. It was better but the decks were plagued with crappy caps.
I have plenty of hi8 tapes that were fine. Maxell TDK and Fuji. Just the Sony tapes were problematic after they say around for years.
Hi, I have a Sony Hi 8 camcorder CCDTR3200 over 30 yers old and still in perfect working order. All my tapes are still playing back perfect including Sony, TDK and Maxell. I am carefull to store the tapes in a cool room standing upright in a metal container. I make short films and intend to do one on Hi8 soon. My newer camera is the Sony PXW-X70 with 4k installed. Thank you for your video I enjoyed it very much.
Some formulations of Sony tape was the shits. I have a bunch that will clog the heads after a few minutes. I also provide an archive service and see hundreds of tapes a month. You have been lucky. Best place to store tapes is on a shelf with good ventilation is a dry room. Moisture is the killer. Mold will ruin tapes. I have had my share of moldy tapes to deal with.
I shoot on Sony FDR AX33, 53 and 100. All are 4k. They are more than good enough for anything I am shooting. I run the 4k at 100mb/sec and it looks incredible.
@@12voltvids Thank you for reply. I also shoot 4k at 100mps.By the way I use pal tapes as I'm in Ireland.
Sony reel to reel tapes are also often powdery or sticky. Somehow, their compact cassette tape doesn't give those issues. At least, i haven't experienced them.
Yes, the SLH line was problematic, not sure of the ULH stuff though. It is what's called sticky shed syndrome where the binder gets all sticky and sticks to the heads, leaving a gooey mess everywhere. Their PR-150 tapes were sticky binder that squealed liked a pig due to stiction caused by a lack of lubricant and often also shed a dry powder that's easily cleaned off and sonic-ally speaking, it was not any better than the old Scotch 150 anyway.
I have 2 reels of the SLH-180 tapes, backcoated too and were the early versions in the black/yellow boxes, bought almost 30 years ago as NOS and so far they work fine, not breaking down as far as I know. In fact, I played most of both sides of one of them the other day without issues. I think it's the later SLH-180 tapes in the red/gray boxes that may be problematic.
Think goodness I don’t have that I do have a Sony p6 120 mp
WHY SONY DID NOT MAKE D8 PRO 3CCD CAMERA?
The D8 format was never intended to be a professional format. Even though it recorded to the same spec as DV and could have easily handled an HD signal with plenty of extra bandwidth sony crippled the cameras by giving them a low pixel CCD. Even lower than the Hi8 cameras of the day. So even though the tape format could easily resolve 500tv lines (analog equivalent, the digital resolution 720x480) the sensor only had 345,000 pixels whereas equivelany DV cameras were typically 680K.
The only reason that D8 existed was to satisfy people that had already invested in 8mm and hi8 equipment and wanted to make the move to digital without rendering their existing family tapes on 8mm and hi8 obsolete. The initial D8 cameras all would play back analog recordings. Remember these were budget cameras targeting home video. Sony also had a professional video division that made DVCAM equipment. DVCAM was similar to DV. Same bit rate as DV but a baster tape speed. A 60 minute miniDV tape for example was only 40 minutes in DVCAM mode. It used a wider video track width so that dropouts were less of an issue, but DVCAM players could play back SP recorded DV tapes, but the reverse was not true. Consumer and pro DV could not play DVCAM. The other companies concentrated on Professional DV (JVC) and DVC-PRO (Panasonic) DVC PRO uses a different codec so was not compatable. Professional DV (JVC) was compatable with consumer.
Anyway it was all marketing. The professional division paid the engineering costs for the consumer allowing you to buy a digital camcorder for 1-2000 as opposed to 10,000 which is typically where the pro models started and went up from there. The pros got better cameras, and glass, and through this recorded a superior picture suitable for broadcast.
mp90 and mp120's still holds up well
so besides the tape actually breaking down i dont think the quality is honestly that bad for the 90s
In 2003 I bought a dvd burner and burned all my VHS and cassette tapes to dvd and CD, and I did it just in time, a lot of the cassettes were slowing down and had to fast forward and rewind several times, and that was with a nakamichi tape deck bx1
sounds like the deck needed replacement belts.
I don't know how MPE tapes are clogging the heads, as they don't have any binder, the metal layer is vacuum evaporated on the substrate. I have two Sony MPE tapes, my problem with them is the tape is so thin without the binder, the edges are curling, and the tape transport have problems handling it. Sometimes it's so curly that it doesn't even able to stay flat on the drum, in this cases they're unplayable, and I had to load-eject them muliple times, when finally the tape flattened under the tension of the transport, and I was able the play back the tapes.
The metal E tapes don't clog the heads, but the evaporated metal coating deteriorates and you end up with dropout city. They dropout like crazy, but don't contaminate the heads, but it is about as bad when you have 100 dropouts a minute.
@@12voltvids I see. And I guess if there's a Digital8 recording on them (especially if it's LP), the picture would be pixelated and the PCM sound cuts out, because of the high data error rate.
@@mrnmrn1 The biggest problem with digital 8 and miniDV for that matter was the LP speed.
No interchangeability between decks. For the tape to play properly it needed to be played on the same recorder that made the recording.
@@12voltvids Yes, I've read this in the user's manual of my DCR-TRV270 Digital8 camcorder, although I've came across two other Digital8 camcorders (one from the same 2004 generation as mine, the other was a first generation D8), both played back my (fresh) LP recordings fine. Based on this experience, I decided to use LP only, because Hi8 tapes were expensive. About 12 years passed since then, I don't know how true it would be now, with aged LP recordings. I currently don't have access to other D8 camcorders.
@@mrnmrn1 I never used Hi8 tapes for D8. Standard 8mm tapes worked fine.
Maybe you would have had better luck with Fuji Pro Hi8 tape stock?
I believe I said that. I started using Fugi Maxell and TDK tapes after the sony tapes started showing problems.
YOU ARE RIGHT ..MY HI8 PR TAPE IS NOT BETTER PICTURE ..IT EFFECT ISSU TO HEAD ..I REPLACE MY RECORING IN NORMAL 8MM TAPE OR DIGITAL8 FOR DIGITAL CAMCORDER AND THAT HI8 MM TAPE IS EXPENSIVE ..THANKS
This isn't even that bad. I had gotten a transfer job of about 10 tapes, all Sony MP or ME Hi-8 filmed between 1993 and 1999ish. All but the 1999 tape (had the Digital 8 logo on the shell) had playback problems after about 5 minutes. Whats weird is that it didn't appear to be tape shedding in my case. After I played back a section of tape in real time, that section (after head cleaning) seemed to be cured of playback problems.....almost like playback cleaned off whatever gunk was on the tape. No dropouts or other issues after that. I landed up returning the tapes after doing just one because I didn't want to risk damage to my equipment. I strongly suspect something with the tape lubricant was causing the problem in my case, not tape shedding (there were no telltale flakes in the playback device or visual damage).
one man's garbage is another man's treasure.
No this tape is garbage. Clogs heads every 5 minutes. Takes 3 to 4 hours to digitize a 2 hour tape and when custimer us charged extra for bad take they get upset. When they bring me their camera to clean and then bad tape clogs heads again they don't want to pay to reclean. Trust me this tape is no man's treasure but you are welcome to use it and find out for yourself.
@@12voltvids bro you have any old vhs or mini dvs for sale. my birthday is coming up and i'm thinking of buying myself one but it's so hard to find a good working one.
Well, it captured some moments that created memories, right. So, it worked great. : )
Shit... I just looked this up cause I found my old camera and we have old family videos on the tapes and now I see this... we haven’t digitised any yet but it’s fair to assume the tapes are over 12 years old
Interesting, do some people have the same problem, say with, DAT tapes, since the technology is similar. Newer had this kind of problem with audio tapes: Maxells XLll, MA, TDK SA, SA-X, MA-X, some BASF - well they have other problems. Maybe some cheap ones would have dropouts from time to time.
It seemed yp happen only with the high grade 8mm and Hi-8 tapes from Sony. The standard grade didn't seem to have the same faults, but then from my experience I never used a standard 8mm tape because my equipment was all hi-8 so I used hi-8 tapes and my Sony branded ones are failing.
I clean my tape heads with a finger-sized piece of computer paper and ethyl alcohol. I have no problems capturing 2 hours of HMPX tape from 1991.
That Disney girl had fantastic legs 😀
Zachary Sandberg At what time stamp?
Agree, totally garbage cause I suffered the same fate . I can’t even archive all those footages at all…very sad
I and many others feel your pain.
this is exactly what im looking for. the worse the quality the better it is
I considered buying those tapes and Camcorder. I didn't. I stuck with my VHS camcorder.
You're probably thanking yourself now for not getting them for your memories.
Did you expect 4k quality from an analog tape?
I would expect 480i as that was the format it was recorded.
it's not about resolution. it's about tape quality and dropouts and glitches it causes, while being store in a pristine condition in good environment. let's say a 4k UHD recording suddenly starts glitching out and the footage slowly gets unreadable over a period of time, without any apparent reason. i mean sure, the tape is old, but i've got older tapes that don't do these kind of things. tapes obviously don't last forever, but (as other manufacturers of that time proved it) this sony tape should be in a good condition, seeing that other tapes hold on pretty good till this day, but it obviously isn't. hope that cleared up things a bit.
That's sad people use to trust sony stuff.thanks for the info
I RECORD SOME MATERIAL IN TDK KODAK HI8 TAPES BRAND AND ITS VERY GOOD QUALITY AND COLOR
Hi8 was a very good format for home recording. It was a "broadcastable" format, and many early reality TV shows were shot using a Sony CCD-VX3 3ccd camcorder. My first 3 ccd was a VX3. I wish I still had that camera. It was a great camera but I sold it, and my EVW300
Some of the cameras I have had over the years. Not counting the seperate recorder / camera.
GCS1 professional Betamovie (still have) MBC1000 Betamovie (sold) CCDV8 original 8mm camera (sold) CCDv110 8mm (still have) CCDTR81 Hi8 (still have) CCDV5000 Hi8 (sold) CCDVX3 (sold) EVW300 professional Hi8 (Sold) Sony DCRVX1000 DV camera (Sold) Canon GL20 DV camera (Sold) JVC GYDV500 (still have) Sony DCRTRV110 Digital 8 (still have) DCR TRV720 digital 8 (still have) Sony HDRFX1 HDV camera (still have) Sony HDRHC3 HDV camera (still have). Sony HDRCX220 and a JVC I forget the model of SD card based. The current cameras I use for production FDR-AX100 and FDR-AX33 4K SD card based. Yes I have a few cameras since the mid 80's but all for my production business.
Besides that Sony Hi8 tapes, was Sony VHS tapes are that bad?
I never used Sony vhs but some if their beta tapes, the hi grade ones were crap so likely the VHS tape was bad too.
And likely there are no guarantees to whenever the binder decide to break off and loose some metal particle from the binder, and will cause to clog the head drum.
On the other hand, I have the Premium Grade tape made by the same company including both 6 hours and 8 hours tape, and it's not a Japanese made tape, it's a Mexican made tape, and I don't know that the quality is similar to the Hi8 one where it has the same problem by the manufacture who never solve the problem to correct their ingredient.
@@Bluethunderboom Notice that the tapes all had a exclusion to warranty for any loss of material due to tape failure.
Is also the same problem as Sony audio cassette tape whenever the binder breaks off and loose them iron oxide and contaminated the audio head and the erase head?
@@12voltvids While archiving the Sony VHS for Client, did the tape cause the head drum to get clog?
Ya similar issues with the 'high end' metal audio cassettes in some cases. Good video thanks for showing the problem.
Are digital 8 tapes good, and are all Sony tapes bad?
Digital 8 as a format was very good. Same quality as DV as the data format and compression identical. Many Sony hi8 tapes were bad. Most digital 8 cameras had relatively low quality sensors as Sony didn't want them to look as good as the dv cameras and dvcam format professional cameras. I used to pump the analog s video output from my broadcast camera into my DCR trv110 camera and use it as an external recorder. The quality was unbelievable.
12voltvids thank you for responding because I'm thinking about getting a Sony DCR TRV-330 Digital eight camcorder.
@@sonicfan82 They work good, but I have to wonder why in 2020 anyone is still fiddling around with tape.
Totally agree that Sony Hi8 was totally garbage! And a long with them the Digi8 as they was just as bad. I digitized all VHS and DV tapes almost 10 years ago and I ran into problem with Al my Sony DV tapes but not at any of my VHS/VCR tapes.
That was also when I start doubt about DV as a format as all my VHS tapes had no dropout's like the DV had! Ok, VHS might have gone noisier but non of those dropout's found on the DV!
Thanks for a great video and perhaps I might try another time to copy those DV tapes that was stubborn then and buy me a cleaning cassette if they are still to be found 🤔
I never had any problem with hi8 or DV. Only a specific Sony hi8 tape. The binder was bad and the tape coating came off clogging the heads. Never had issues with maxell, Fuji or tdk tapes. The only issues I have had with DV tapes is those recorded on garbage canon cameras. They have a clip on pinch roller that breaks and then the camera chews the tape which contaminated the heads on subsequent playbaxk. 8mm and DV tape being much thinner than VHS was easier to damage. If stored in damp dark places could go moldy and moldy 8mm avs DV tape will tear when unspooled. VHS can also get moldy but usually doesn't break.
Its not really trash, I bought a converter for 10 bucks off of Amazon and it can basically convert video from all of my 5 Tape Recording Cameras
Basf vhs tape had that problem too
You got that right
The quality of hi8 definitely sucks but it makes for a great effect if used tastefully. I love the handycam I've got because people will eat up the whole 90s look🤣
Hi8 quality was great. A good camera and a fresh tape looked
Indeed they are not well made...we had tremendous trouble digitising our 127 tapes. Out of them, 7 were completely degraded. The remaining ones had varying amounts of degredation.
I get tone of bad tapes for clients to the point that I am raising my rates for 8mm and hi8 because I have to sit there and watch the entire tape while archiving, and that takes my time which is valuable.
A E S T H E T I C
Thanks! You convinced me not to buy Sony tapes. I will only buy maxell tapes or tdk tapes. If I ever see Sony videos I will pass. I only record on maxell anyway
The question is why are you still using video tape in 2020?
Perhaps for a gun video I should haul out my old vintage gear and try to make something. I have been pondering this for awhile. Record straight to analog tape from either a tube camera or ccd, do the full edit using analog tape while recording the process of the edit and then upload the finished project to my channel. What do you guys think about this. I am open to suggestions. What format should i use for acquisition? Beta, hi8, digital 8, DV, HDV? Myself i am leaning to Beta as i could use those slhf1000 decks with the preroll editing capability.
@@12voltvids so to answer your question about why I shoot on tape still in 2020. Its because I like the look of 8mm tapes. They give a early 2000s nostalgic look you don't really get in videos these days. Also I would love to see a video where you record a new video using 8mm video for sure. Maybe even vhs-c too.
I work for a professional tape preservation organization and this is an interesting case. Gonna be interesting with D8 sony I'm sure! I don't know about baking hi-8 but as a last resort I'd try it. I don't know about ME tapes and baking. I'm starting some experiments, I've had great results with Umatic 3/4" ampex 187 in a home made oven, not pro like they use where I work.
Same with HI8MP ones
Yes the Sony hi8 tapes were crap.
I am a big fan of 3ccd.
I have a 3ccd hd camera. Should use it some time.
Surely you did not transfer this over to DVD unless the print was very good and clear...
Actually I do transfer tapes over even when they look bad like this. Have to stop constantly clean the head and pick up again. If going direct to DVD I'll stop the recording clean the head and then start up again rewind back slightly so that material is not missed and the client gets a tape back and their DVD and it'll have multiple chapters or I've had to stop to fix it and I'll tell them up front yeah the tape was damaged and this is why it cost extra right. Because I have a standard price per tape but that price is only valid if the tape has no damage if the tape requires extensive work such as demolding it before I can transfer that costs extra and they're informed and either they decide they want to do it or they don't. I've never had anyone say no to recovering their tapes because they really don't have many other options other than lose the footage.
@@12voltvids That's Amazing work, do you get tired of ever watching your clients video's, transferring video or vhs to DVD or any other tape medium is time consuming, that's good you charge extra if the tape is damaged, as damaged or worn tapes can be troublesome for the heads, and also can break the VCR, which has happened to most people.
@@speedyboishan87
Yes I do get tired of watching people's tapes. I am much happier when the tape does not have a problem and I can just load it press play hit the record button on the recorder and walk away and just kind of monitor it and make sure something doesn't go bad but when a tape is damaged and has to be babysat it gets monotonous. I understand that a new parent wants to do nothing but film their baby but come on 30 hours of tape in the first year! I can understand the milestones but every time the kids spits up doesn't have to be documented on tape or worse now sometimes it's funny those first moments are usually pretty funny and I've got some that I'm sure will embarrass my kids when they're showing to them at some date down the road preferably at some celebration like a wedding nothing like embarrassing them in front of all their friends 😂. I see when I was growing up that's the type of stuff that my parents would have done drag out the most embarrassing moments and put it on display like a family gatherings and stuff and for someone with my age that was just growing up unfortunately today the kids are so sensitive that if you look at them the wrong way they're going for counseling. It's a sad world that we're in now.
@@12voltvids That's great what TBC do you use so that any Flicker or video abnormalities are fixed, not video malfunction..
@@speedyboishan87 i use the one built into my player and capture devices. For something really bad I will run it through the videonics mx1 but generally the built in tbc on my evs7000 works great for 8mm and hi 8 and the input tbc on my Panasonic and Toshiba DVD recorders also work great at cleaning up video with poor sync. That's all the time it's correct it will do is clean up the sync. if you need to adjust the video level and chroma level and chroma phase then you need to have a proc amp. Some high-end time base correctors also have a procamp built in. However to accurately use a proc amp you need both a way for a monitor and a vector scope and the tape needs to have color bars recorded on a section of the tape made it the time the original recording was made. This is used to set the video level Black level chroma level and chroma phase before you actually start the capture. since the number of home video users that were recording color bars for 30 seconds or a minute before they started using their tape is zero they do you no good because without a reference, and your monitor and eyes are not a reference, playing with a pro camp will usually do more harm than good. My EVS 7000 for example has a procamp built into the time-based corrector which you access using a menu you can adjust the color level and phase on playback however unless you recorded color bars on the tape prior to recording, and high-end cameras have the color bar option, your game don't have a reference. When I was shooting analog every tape had a minute of color bars at the beginning recorded. This serves two purposes one to allow for adjustment on playback and two to make sure all the high dropout areas of the tape which were usually at the beginning had passed before I actually started recording something. I was using a tectronics waveform monitor and vector scope in my studio when I was dealing exclusively with analog stuff. I don't use them anymore I've got them now built in to my editing package and I can tweak stuff once it's been captured however you still need those color bars recorded at the beginning for a reference
Better dry out those tapes. I've heard using a food dehydrator can do it.
Moisture is not a problem in my studio as it is climate controlled. Customers tapes I have no control over.
That's one reason why tapes have been obsoleted.
One of many reasons. Good Riddance.