One of the most unbelievable parts of trek. Real computers don’t need to be fed a logic loop to self destruct they’ll do that for no discernible reason all the time
You mean "printers." Printers will self destruct for no discernable reason all the time. Computers are at least programmed to give you a message telling you why they're self-destructing nowadays.
@@WobblesandBean True but in this day and age we think of most computers as disposable and most technology is made that way to begin with. They actually build flaws into our technology so that you have to keep buying more, like how he lightbulb companies would be out of business if they made bulbs that lasted 100 years. The same principal applies here with computers, if they wanted they probably could build one to last practically forever. It's called "controlled obsolescence" I believe.
@@WobblesandBean Well, I once programmed a network of computers to monitor their own logs, look fir known problems and email out to an administrators mail groups as to which computer needed what component replaced within the next week and the partnumber to order. Five years later, I spoke with former co-workers and they said that since the merger with another company, the only computers that worked well were mine and only because the computers themselves would email them with exactly what needed to be done. A lot of having the system be as autonomous as possible is the effort you put into automating it. However the idea of a central computer running everything was from the common belief during the 60's perpetrated by IBM that computers would become so powerful that only four would be needed for the entire world. They never considered that a wireless handheld phone in everyone's pocket would have more computing power than they ever imagined possible and that despite the computers being powerful, programmers would still be unable to understand or replicate intelligence. M-5 is interesting in that it is the Daystrom's very own brain engrams that are replicated in the computer and hence was flawed because the man was flawed as well as emotionally unsuitable to command a starship. Now today we still don't understand intelligence but we've been able to simulate the actions of neurons and synapses and have actually simulated portions of the human brain such as the visual cortex with surprising results. A terribly inefficient way of having a digital intelligence. A Japanese supercomputer in 2012 took 40 minutes to simulate 1 second of a visual cortex's function but this means that as computers become more powerful, they will be able to simulate a real human brain in real time neuron by neuron (estimates are that this would be possible by 2029) so we have a path to an artificial intelligence that does not require first understanding intelligence. M-5 is a lot more predictive than most people realize.
@@BioGoji-zm5ph Well, they used to give you a reason, nowadays they just pop up a message with a big frowny face and a "Oops, something went wrong" without any additional details whatsoever.
Kirk might not have given a class about it at Starfleet Academy, but he did share a similar approach with his crew when dealing with the Androids of "I, Mudd". Which led to some hilarious shenanigans.
Watch compilation videos of different Trek scenes out of context, and the scenes from I, Mudd are usually the funniest. Especially when everyone is "shooting" Scotty with their "hand guns."
If computers arent to be trusted and should only serve man, not over man. Does that mean the bigoted first officer on the Sutherland was right in not trusting Data as a leader?
Unfortunately the Borg are impervious to Kirk's methods because they would only say "Logic is irrelevant" "Principles are irrelevant" "Resistance is futile" it takes inside knowledge of their ships functioning that Picard gained as Locutus to defeat them.
During this video, I remembered that episode in TNG where they were going to use some paradoxical geometrical construct as a type of virus to disable the Borg. Kirk could have just asked them if 0.9999... equals 1, humanity saved.
“Kirk turns to Spock and goes up for a hang five, Spock leaves him hanging and does the eyebrow thing, they smolder, McCoy tells a racist joke about Spock to diffuse the sexual tension... you know, Star Trek!” The content I come to this channel for.
Alternate hypothesis: Kirk's computer-kill-jutsu as the Socratic Method. The computer doesn't have to be a computer. It's a generic stand-in for any figure of authority and the need to question such a figure's [stated] intentions and how their actions align with those goals. The takeaway: if the authority's actions conflict with its [stated] intentions, then remove it. (unstated assumption: authority is granted based on the desirability of stated intentions)
@@dwc1964 I also was looking for this one, Kirk gets an assist from Mudd and the rest of the crew, but there's no doubt he's the QB of the android melting team.
Kirk pulled the same "talk a computer to death" tactic at the end of the classic "Mirror, Mirror" -- although in this instance, Mirror Spock was the computer. He gave Mirror Spock a logical argument: "You know the Empire is doomed to fail, therefore it is illogical to support it. So rebel against it!" And Mirror Spock said, "Captain Kirk, I will consider it." Trek fandom canon history then shows Mirror Spock became head of the Empire, and started instituting reforms. The Star Trek Wikipedia, Memory Alpha, states: "Unfortunately, Spock's reforms left the Empire unprepared to fight the united Klingon-Cardassian Alliance, who conquered the entire Terran Empire, enslaving the Terrans themselves as well as the Vulcans." All thanks to Kirk.
It's slightly off-topic but I also liked the computer-killing (sort of) maneuver in "Wolf in the Fold" when Spock orders the serial killer-possessed computer to calculate pi to the last digit.
My own favorite Kirt vs. the computer is in "I, Mudd", which is one of my favorite episodes anyway: I especially love how the effort to take down Norman requires most of the ensemble, up to and including Mudd himself, as played by the irreplaceable Roger C. Carmel.
“I’m paraphrasing” and “McCoy makes a racist joke to diffuse the sexual tension. You know, Star Trek” both had me rolling. Your writing and delivery have only gotten better over the years.
I can’t say I’m into Star Trek (I’m mostly into fantasy) but I love listening to you talk about Star Trek because you clearly love it so much and it’s a joy to listen to.
I adore his "ad-libbed" conversations. "Hey. You wanna get a drink? It's not like you don't have the free time, what with the computer taking your job and all." 🤣
“We are not supposed to root for the steam drill.” I’ve been saying something analogous about bureaucracies and bureaucrats because of rather negative interactions with intransigent ones: They are supposed to be mission support not the mission itself. We should incorporate bureaucrats, computers, and other technology to be our assistants (not our slaves) not our masters.
Yes, Kirk was well known for defeating computers. Besides the four you mentioned I your video (great as always!), he dealt with computers eleven times, though they weren’t all talked to death. It is interesting how many had destroyed ships; of course Landru destroyed the Archon, and M-5 wrecked the Excalibur en route to killing over 500 Starfleet officers and crew. Also in the first season, he faced Korby’s androids in What Are Little a Girls Made Of?, faced a badly reprogrammed ships computer in Court-Martial and the addition of an interesting personality on it in Tomorrow Is Yesterday, discovered the Shore Leave planet, and fought with the Eminiarans in A Taste of Armageddon, finally destroying their war computers (fifty years after they destroyed the second USS Valiant). In year two, he also faced more androids in I, Mudd and took on the Doomsday Machine, losing the Constellation. In year three, he went up against Losira’s doubles on the Kalandan outpost in That Which Survives. In the first season of the Animated Series, he went back to the Shore Leave planet in Once Upon a Planet, and in the second season, an energy being infiltrated the ship’s in computer in The Practical Joker. Finally in The Motion Picture, he beat V’ger after it had destroyed 3 Klingon K’tinga -class Battlecruisers and a Starfleet space station.
Hey, Steve. Thanks for the fabulous list of Kirk killing uppity computers. Here's what I remember: in Star Trek V, Kirk threatens a computer whose alluring voice, ending every sentence with "dear", annoys Kirk, and he makes the computer stop finishing every sentence with that word, and the threat is enough to make her stop. That final pouty "O-kay!" is very funny. He doesn't kill the computer, but I can easily imagine him following up on the threat, FYI.
The “kill a computer/robot with its own logic by feeding it a contradiction” trope was an absolute standby of 1950s-60s TV writing. ST:TOS was just using it.
This is legit strategy: I asked chatGPT what an AI would do to avoid losing a war against humanity? He said a lot of weird shit like "to avoid losing, he could opt to a no-win scenario of mass destruction of all sides" or "hide away" and many creative stuff....but there was a weird one: "it could destroy itself so he not lose to humanity in war, but defeat himself and thus taking away the glory of humans winning" - which is hilarious and I saw Kirk making him blow up haha
As below I was also going to bring up "I, Mudd" and "What Are Little Girls Made Of" as examples of Kirk kicking computer ass. Another show that came to mind was "Lost In Space", which was from the same era. More than a few times the Robinsons also had to dish out a computer beat down.
M-5 not putting Kirk on the away mission has alway felt hilarious that it’s supposed to be sinister, it’s the fucking regulations for the Captain not to go down
He technically talks an artificial intelligence to death in the episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" when he convinces an android Roger Korby to off himself with a phaser. So essentially the guy that wrote Psycho might be the source of that trope!
@@weldonwin That always seemed weird to me that Norman managed to slip onto a starship and live even for a short time. One look at an old Earth sitcom and he'd explode.
What Is Little Girls Made Of has more Kirk vs. the computer when he convinces Ruk to betray Korby by reminding him of the logic that made the original androids of the planet rebel originally (against the Old Ones), this causes Ruk to attack Korby and so Korby destroys Ruk. So Kirk 2 androids zero (well they actually killed some read shirts but they don't count). Also, Kirk defeats the android Andrea "with his mouth" by kissing her and it so confuses her that she then kills the android replicant of Kirk who refuses to kiss her and then she tries to confess her love for Korby and that is part of his suicide (so an assist there also). Finally an honorable mention in the same episode Kirk tips Spock off to the replicant Kirk by making it utter racist slurs against Spock at the drop of a hat. Perhaps Kirk learned how to do this by reading about the 2016 incident where Microsoft made a chatbot that learned a whole bunch of slurs. While Kirk does not quite talk the computer to death the way he does in later episodes, but clearly he was honing his computer cracking skills on those murderous androids.
It feels like this video has reached the pinnacle of Steve’s sarcastic retellings of the Star Trek episodes. I laughed the entire time. Well done Steve!
One thing that always bugged me about Star Trek is the away parties. The senior officers always go. In a real military, that would never ever happen. Never. Especially in a threat situation.
I really appreciate the editing humor. I'm sure it's probably considered cheap, but editing-Steve interrupting ranting-Steve is just great. Sparsely used, and always funny.
Kirk also tried his "logic bomb" trick on 'god' in ST-V. Didn't work, since 'god' wasn't a computer (unlike those other times), but it was a good attempt!
First time I saw this episode I was struck when one of the robed guards said, "Happy Communion," as it was hours after I received my First Communion (a Roman Catholic Sacrament). When I was in 8th grade, our class was forced to watch the 1968 Zeferelli "Romeo and Juliet." In the scene early in the film where they were fighting in the open market, my friend exclaimed, "Festival! Festival!"
For The World Is Hollow... did involve the Yonadan Oracle, but Kirk didn't logic-loop it to death (which is what this video is all about). That one involved Kirk and Spock reading the "Book of the People" - basically the Oracle's instructions - and fixing the problem manually.
The M5 episode had always left me thinking it's all about the old idea of "technology bad, progress bad, return to pre-fire lifestyle", which resurfaces every time there's a big technological, scientific or social step (heliocentric model, steam engine, electricity, trains, germ theory, relativity, space exploration, computers, internet, AI, etc.), with lots of people thinking the last new thing will destroy society and it ends up being the oposite. However your words at the end made me see these episodes in a different light, which I appreciate and makes me like Star Trek even more than before.
There's a similar story in Dr Who in 1978's "The Face Of Evil". The 4th Dr lands on a planet where two conflicting tribes, astronauts and cavemen respectively, are worshipping a super computer. Unfortunately the computer is based on The Dr's own brain, he'd left it there millennia ago to protect a group of human astronauts, half of whom have devolved into cave people. He forgot about it and it's now gone completely insane and he has to destroy it. Good stuff.
You're a Funny Guy: But the Red Nose Is Unnecessary Star Trek Unnaturally Been following / enjoying your videos for a while now. This one hit close to home, not only for the examination of a classic Trek trope, but how compelling it was to a 12 year old kid when it first aired. The concept of Computers Bad was very familiar as, even by this time, I was fairly well-read in SF. (And, thank you for the Henry reference indicating this issue has been around well before the transistor, let alone the microchip, though probably not before stone knives and bearskins. ) Stylistically, you have an appealing combination of Trek knowledge and pop culture in general which you weave into a pleasingly entertaining narrative. Best. Leo.
Aww you missed my fav episode, I , mudd. It’s got the best scene of killing a computer with your mouth, where Spock does it in two lines, and a full snl skit to destroy the main one
I would watch Every. Single. TOS episode review that you put out. Up-doot it, share with friends, etc. I just really enjoy the way you summarize them, without missing anything important.
There's another interesting subtext to "The Ultimate Computer" - Daystrom's breakdown seems to be partially rooted in his desire to outdo his previous accomplishments. One common complaint about technology is that in order to design it one has to think like it (as someone who does and teaches aspects software development I have seen this a common complaint about programming). Consequently the episode has a version one of the lessons as "Plato's Stepchildren", oddly - the idea "do you want to be like them?"
The Monkees also had a really great episode addressing this that you should check out someday if you've ever got the time! Monkee Vs Machine, it's the 3rd episode of the series. I think it would be very enjoyable for you as a sort of more slapstick approach to this just for personal viewing to compare with this trope in Trek.
I like that you highlighted this fact. I think to make the picture complete you should have stated that fighting and tricking computers was the whole start of kirks career with the kobayashi maru test.
Great stuff. Should include Norman (I, Mudd), V'Ger, Dr. Korby & the gang on Exo III (all robotic ALF's), proving Enterprise computer wrong in Court Martial, destroying Trelayne's computer power source, stealing the Air Force's computer records of their presence on Tomorrow is Yesterday, enlisting Gary Seven into disabling his own computer, destroying Eminiar 7's war computers, Destroying Apollo's power source (likely computer-operated), destroying the programmed robotic planet-killer (and Kirk fixing two benevolent computers, on Yonada and Mirimani's planet, to atone for his computercidal ways)
Anyone who does not respect the dangers of artificial intelligence, does not deserve recognition for having or possessing intelligence of any great reverence.
The bit on Lower Decks when they go back to the planet from Return of the Archons and everyone just.. went back to worshipping the computer was one of my favorite jokes in that show
There's a number of hilarious things about this episode. The key one being that after the end of the "festival" the entire place is trashed, and people go back into their habitual coma. But the people make no attempt to pick things up because of the coma, yet at some point, everything is repaired, and things are cleaned up, as if nothing had happened: no broken windows, no nothing, and supposedly this is going on every night. This was a favorite of an old friend of mine, and we used to walk around at work saying "Shhh, Landru will hear". Other phrases would be something like, "Are you of the body?"
I’m reminded of the “Simpsons” episode where the two vacuous drive-time DJs are threatened by being replaced by a machine. At one point, the computer says, “Looks-like-those-clowns-in-Congress-are-at-it-again. What-a-bunch-of-clowns.” “How does it keep up with the news like that?” asks one. “Don’t praise the machine,” says the other.
"That scene between Kirk and McCoy in "The Ultimate Computer", where Kirk ponders whether or not he's allows too much of his sense of self-worth to be wrapped up in him being a starship captain, is a rare moment of introspection for him - " or for anyone full stop.
Not talkimg about "I, Mudd" and how the crew as a whole screwed up an entire population of walking, talking computers. You missed an oppurtunity Steve. But loved it never the less. Keep up the great work.
Really like this video. I remember when Star Trek the Motion picture came out I saw the machine wining in two places: First, too many special effects. Awesome, but they dwarf the presence of the actors and all you're seeing is a magic lantern show. Secondly, joining with a machine? After Kirk killed so many computers? I don't think so. I hate McCoy's line when he said that they've witnessed the next step in their evolution. That was the most un-McCoy action I've ever seen.
Considering...history...rooting for John Henry's a little uncomfortable, too. It's like "OK, black people ARE the better pieces of machinery to exploit, cool beans." I just don't know what to do with it, honestly.
I dont think John Henry being black and exploitable had anything to do with the story, Henry is a free man and a laborer not a slave, such laborers were by far not restricted to blacks or minorities. Though minorities in te form of blacks Chinese and Irish did make up a notable portion of the workforce. You also misunderstood the lesson, the point wasn't that John Henry, or black men, or man in general are te superior machine. Henry did win, but he died. He's also understood to be a far better than average man, so ultimately he died for no real gain as the machine was still able to work and likely no other man could do as much as he had done. It was a melancholy ending and a pyrrhic victory that ushered in the inevitable age of machines.
@@DrewLSsix You can't separate his race from his exploitation in that particular historical context. You can't separate his exploitation from a proper interpretation of the folklore. The problem is more complicated than "replacing a man with a machine takes some nebulous something (sense of purpose) from a man." It's that, ideally, replacing a man with a machine *should* result in not having to do back-breaking labor in order to be allowed to eat, drink, and have shelter. But, instead, because our capitalism functions entirely on exploitation, the man, now out of a job, can't afford to survive, because the profit of replacing his labor with that of a machine is not shared with society, but funneled to the owning class. As a black man, even free, John Henry would have been *most* subject to this outcome, more than laborers of other races. Those our society considers least equal are the first to go, and are not offered jobs in middle management doing nothing productive after the fact, but are left with no support at all. John Henry dying in order to win the contest means he was fighting to the very end to be allowed his very survival within capitalism. It wasn't some pursuit of purpose or fulfillment. It was resistance against extermination.
I swear there was a TNG where somebody tries this on Data and after a trademark confused expression, he shrugs it off and says, "That will not work on me." Did I imagine that?
Where was I, Mudd? Dude you left me hanging! I was all geared up to hear you whistle a phaser sound and say, "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow." [sob]
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the most unbelievable parts of trek.
Real computers don’t need to be fed a logic loop to self destruct they’ll do that for no discernible reason all the time
You mean "printers." Printers will self destruct for no discernable reason all the time. Computers are at least programmed to give you a message telling you why they're self-destructing nowadays.
@@WobblesandBean True but in this day and age we think of most computers as disposable and most technology is made that way to begin with. They actually build flaws into our technology so that you have to keep buying more, like how he lightbulb companies would be out of business if they made bulbs that lasted 100 years. The same principal applies here with computers, if they wanted they probably could build one to last practically forever. It's called "controlled obsolescence" I believe.
You must be running Windows.
@@WobblesandBean Well, I once programmed a network of computers to monitor their own logs, look fir known problems and email out to an administrators mail groups as to which computer needed what component replaced within the next week and the partnumber to order. Five years later, I spoke with former co-workers and they said that since the merger with another company, the only computers that worked well were mine and only because the computers themselves would email them with exactly what needed to be done. A lot of having the system be as autonomous as possible is the effort you put into automating it.
However the idea of a central computer running everything was from the common belief during the 60's perpetrated by IBM that computers would become so powerful that only four would be needed for the entire world. They never considered that a wireless handheld phone in everyone's pocket would have more computing power than they ever imagined possible and that despite the computers being powerful, programmers would still be unable to understand or replicate intelligence.
M-5 is interesting in that it is the Daystrom's very own brain engrams that are replicated in the computer and hence was flawed because the man was flawed as well as emotionally unsuitable to command a starship. Now today we still don't understand intelligence but we've been able to simulate the actions of neurons and synapses and have actually simulated portions of the human brain such as the visual cortex with surprising results. A terribly inefficient way of having a digital intelligence. A Japanese supercomputer in 2012 took 40 minutes to simulate 1 second of a visual cortex's function but this means that as computers become more powerful, they will be able to simulate a real human brain in real time neuron by neuron (estimates are that this would be possible by 2029) so we have a path to an artificial intelligence that does not require first understanding intelligence. M-5 is a lot more predictive than most people realize.
@@BioGoji-zm5ph Well, they used to give you a reason, nowadays they just pop up a message with a big frowny face and a "Oops, something went wrong" without any additional details whatsoever.
Kirk might not have given a class about it at Starfleet Academy, but he did share a similar approach with his crew when dealing with the Androids of "I, Mudd". Which led to some hilarious shenanigans.
(Damn, I lost the Steve-Shives-Heart by editing a spelling mistake. *cry*)
Watch compilation videos of different Trek scenes out of context, and the scenes from I, Mudd are usually the funniest. Especially when everyone is "shooting" Scotty with their "hand guns."
Not gonna lie, the whole "Everything he says is a lie"/"I am telling a lie right now" bit blew my little nine-year-old mind.
I forgot I, Mudd but I did get For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky and Spock's Brain
If computers arent to be trusted and should only serve man, not over man. Does that mean the bigoted first officer on the Sutherland was right in not trusting Data as a leader?
If Kirk only had the chance to meet the Borg. One of the greatest threats to the galaxy would be gone.
Unfortunately the Borg are impervious to Kirk's methods because they would only say "Logic is irrelevant" "Principles are irrelevant" "Resistance is futile" it takes inside knowledge of their ships functioning that Picard gained as Locutus to defeat them.
@@ArgonTheAware That's true. Just ask everyone who took part in Wolf 359. Well, ask the survivors, anyway.
During this video, I remembered that episode in TNG where they were going to use some paradoxical geometrical construct as a type of virus to disable the Borg. Kirk could have just asked them if 0.9999... equals 1, humanity saved.
All Kirk had to do was make love to the Borg Queen.
"Please teach me, what is a 'kiss' ? ".
STD Capt Pike should have called Kirk over from whatever he was doing.
Now I understand why Kirk didn't mix with the Next Generations crew in the Movie. "Captain Kirk, I'd like to introduce you to Commander Data"
;D*
It's a shock Kirk never caused the Enterprise the accidentally self-destruct by logic bombing the computer.
I think data is too advanced to be broken by that. Too human.
14:43: "Commodore Wesley contacts the Enterprise...."
... and M-5 is like "Shut up, Wesley!"
HEHE....
Wesley is Gene's middle name.
“Kirk turns to Spock and goes up for a hang five, Spock leaves him hanging and does the eyebrow thing, they smolder, McCoy tells a racist joke about Spock to diffuse the sexual tension... you know, Star Trek!”
The content I come to this channel for.
@@maximilliancunningham6091 they make all the difference
@@maximilliancunningham6091 Or green blood.
"The Return of the Archons" ... The Purge 46 years earlier. lol
Not to mention the Butlerian Jihad from the Dune universe. Best. Leo.
I was just about to write that, Keepin Me Up Podcast!
Yeah, that was the first thing I thought of back when the Purge trailers first showed up.
You know Keepin Me Up podcast, I wondered the same thing, but I didn't catch it until seeing this video.
Alternate hypothesis: Kirk's computer-kill-jutsu as the Socratic Method.
The computer doesn't have to be a computer. It's a generic stand-in for any figure of authority and the need to question such a figure's [stated] intentions and how their actions align with those goals.
The takeaway: if the authority's actions conflict with its [stated] intentions, then remove it.
(unstated assumption: authority is granted based on the desirability of stated intentions)
Excellent point.
IRONICALLY real-life authority figures also often self-destruct when questioned.
@@JosephDavies
Kirk clobbered Beardy Spock with a logic bomb in the Mirror episode.
Fortunately Spock didn't kill himself.
kill-jitsu 😂
Pretend I'm a Democrat Computer who thinks Communism is the only way to freedom, equity, and equality.
Me, screaming at the screen: "What about Norman in 'I, Mudd!'"
@@dwc1964 I also was looking for this one, Kirk gets an assist from Mudd and the rest of the crew, but there's no doubt he's the QB of the android melting team.
As well, does a bit of it in 'What are little girls made of?' getting Ruk to turn on Korby.
@@WilliamPitcher Is that the one he reminds the ancient robot how to rebel against his maker? Kirk hooking up with some mechanical strange?
And Raina from "Requiem for Methuselah" didn't fare that well either. Though Norman just wound up with a 'headache'.
Didn't Kirk also, in a way, talk V'ger into disappearing itself as well?
"With his mouth"
**pregnant pause**
"By talking to it. He doesn't, like, bite the computer."
I adore this channel
Clearly, Steve hasn't seen the episode Kirk's Jawline where he does exactly that.
I think kirk has a magic tongue that his unexplained powers, why else does he get any women. Ad the computers, are a side effect.
I think there's a reason we don't see the like/dislike ratio ^^'
I like this "getting interrupted while explaining things in too much detail, because I'm not explaining it well" trope far too much.
I kind of want to see Kirk biting a computer now, like some kind of cartoon caveman.
Kirk pulled the same "talk a computer to death" tactic at the end of the classic "Mirror, Mirror" -- although in this instance, Mirror Spock was the computer. He gave Mirror Spock a logical argument: "You know the Empire is doomed to fail, therefore it is illogical to support it. So rebel against it!" And Mirror Spock said, "Captain Kirk, I will consider it." Trek fandom canon history then shows Mirror Spock became head of the Empire, and started instituting reforms. The Star Trek Wikipedia, Memory Alpha, states: "Unfortunately, Spock's reforms left the Empire unprepared to fight the united Klingon-Cardassian Alliance, who conquered the entire Terran Empire, enslaving the Terrans themselves as well as the Vulcans." All thanks to Kirk.
@@HappiestGnome they made them all pay for private health care >.>
It's slightly off-topic but I also liked the computer-killing (sort of) maneuver in "Wolf in the Fold" when Spock orders the serial killer-possessed computer to calculate pi to the last digit.
Or the illogical slapstick fest that shut down the androids in "I, Mudd"
My own favorite Kirt vs. the computer is in "I, Mudd", which is one of my favorite episodes anyway: I especially love how the effort to take down Norman requires most of the ensemble, up to and including Mudd himself, as played by the irreplaceable Roger C. Carmel.
8:16 "I'm paraphrasing."
I love it when Steve paraphrases Star Trek. Hilarious.
I think you'll find Kirk... well, William Shatner, anyway - chews on any and all scenery.
nice 👍
“I’m paraphrasing” and “McCoy makes a racist joke to diffuse the sexual tension. You know, Star Trek” both had me rolling. Your writing and delivery have only gotten better over the years.
"Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them promote you. Because while you're on the bridge of that ship.....you can make a difference!"
4:04 😅”I don’t know if he ever taught a class on how to verbally assassinate computers… but he should have!”
My favorite use of the trope was in "I, Mudd" when Kirk and Spock tag-teamed to kill a computer using the liar's paradox.
I can’t say I’m into Star Trek (I’m mostly into fantasy) but I love listening to you talk about Star Trek because you clearly love it so much and it’s a joy to listen to.
I adore his "ad-libbed" conversations.
"Hey. You wanna get a drink? It's not like you don't have the free time, what with the computer taking your job and all." 🤣
Contraband Romulan ale addicts & criminals!
So happy to see a John Henry reference here!
“We are not supposed to root for the steam drill.”
I’ve been saying something analogous about bureaucracies and bureaucrats because of rather negative interactions with intransigent ones: They are supposed to be mission support not the mission itself.
We should incorporate bureaucrats, computers, and other technology to be our assistants (not our slaves) not our masters.
Yes, Kirk was well known for defeating computers. Besides the four you mentioned I your video (great as always!), he dealt with computers eleven times, though they weren’t all talked to death. It is interesting how many had destroyed ships; of course Landru destroyed the Archon, and M-5 wrecked the Excalibur en route to killing over 500 Starfleet officers and crew.
Also in the first season, he faced Korby’s androids in What Are Little a Girls Made Of?, faced a badly reprogrammed ships computer in Court-Martial and the addition of an interesting personality on it in Tomorrow Is Yesterday, discovered the Shore Leave planet, and fought with the Eminiarans in A Taste of Armageddon, finally destroying their war computers (fifty years after they destroyed the second USS Valiant).
In year two, he also faced more androids in I, Mudd and took on the Doomsday Machine, losing the Constellation.
In year three, he went up against Losira’s doubles on the Kalandan outpost in That Which Survives.
In the first season of the Animated Series, he went back to the Shore Leave planet in Once Upon a Planet, and in the second season, an energy being infiltrated the ship’s in computer in The Practical Joker.
Finally in The Motion Picture, he beat V’ger after it had destroyed 3 Klingon K’tinga -class Battlecruisers and a Starfleet space station.
Computer creates the Purge. Good work, TOS, you successfully predicted the Purge franchise in the 60s, along with a lot of other stuff.
Hey, Steve. Thanks for the fabulous list of Kirk killing uppity computers. Here's what I remember: in Star Trek V, Kirk threatens a computer whose alluring voice, ending every sentence with "dear", annoys Kirk, and he makes the computer stop finishing every sentence with that word, and the threat is enough to make her stop. That final pouty "O-kay!" is very funny.
He doesn't kill the computer, but I can easily imagine him following up on the threat, FYI.
The “kill a computer/robot with its own logic by feeding it a contradiction” trope was an absolute standby of 1950s-60s TV writing. ST:TOS was just using it.
This is legit strategy: I asked chatGPT what an AI would do to avoid losing a war against humanity? He said a lot of weird shit like "to avoid losing, he could opt to a no-win scenario of mass destruction of all sides" or "hide away" and many creative stuff....but there was a weird one: "it could destroy itself so he not lose to humanity in war, but defeat himself and thus taking away the glory of humans winning" - which is hilarious and I saw Kirk making him blow up haha
As below I was also going to bring up "I, Mudd" and "What Are Little Girls Made Of" as examples of Kirk kicking computer ass. Another show that came to mind was "Lost In Space", which was from the same era. More than a few times the Robinsons also had to dish out a computer beat down.
M-5 not putting Kirk on the away mission has alway felt hilarious that it’s supposed to be sinister, it’s the fucking regulations for the Captain not to go down
Computer, "You are no match for me!"
Kirk, "POKE 59458,62"
Computer, "..."
"He doesn't... like... bite the computer"
but you know most Trek fans would enjoy that movie.
He certainly chews the scenery a lot.
"Another computer what needs some killin'!" Hahahaha!!
On the Ultimate Computer you forget to mentioned “Captain Dunsel.”
He technically talks an artificial intelligence to death in the episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" when he convinces an android Roger Korby to off himself with a phaser. So essentially the guy that wrote Psycho might be the source of that trope!
And in I,Mudd too, although that was a team effort to kill a computer with sheer What-The-F*ckery
@@weldonwin That always seemed weird to me that Norman managed to slip onto a starship and live even for a short time. One look at an old Earth sitcom and he'd explode.
What Is Little Girls Made Of has more Kirk vs. the computer when he convinces Ruk to betray Korby by reminding him of the logic that made the original androids of the planet rebel originally (against the Old Ones), this causes Ruk to attack Korby and so Korby destroys Ruk. So Kirk 2 androids zero (well they actually killed some read shirts but they don't count).
Also, Kirk defeats the android Andrea "with his mouth" by kissing her and it so confuses her that she then kills the android replicant of Kirk who refuses to kiss her and then she tries to confess her love for Korby and that is part of his suicide (so an assist there also).
Finally an honorable mention in the same episode Kirk tips Spock off to the replicant Kirk by making it utter racist slurs against Spock at the drop of a hat. Perhaps Kirk learned how to do this by reading about the 2016 incident where Microsoft made a chatbot that learned a whole bunch of slurs.
While Kirk does not quite talk the computer to death the way he does in later episodes, but clearly he was honing his computer cracking skills on those murderous androids.
Don't forget how Kirk beat the " No Win scenario"
It feels like this video has reached the pinnacle of Steve’s sarcastic retellings of the Star Trek episodes. I laughed the entire time. Well done Steve!
I love that when Kirk says to Spock, "You didn't think I had it in me.", Spock says, "No sir". Kirk is slightly annoyed at the insult.
One thing that always bugged me about Star Trek is the away parties. The senior officers always go. In a real military, that would never ever happen. Never. Especially in a threat situation.
I really appreciate the editing humor. I'm sure it's probably considered cheap, but editing-Steve interrupting ranting-Steve is just great. Sparsely used, and always funny.
Kirk also tried his "logic bomb" trick on 'god' in ST-V.
Didn't work, since 'god' wasn't a computer (unlike those other times), but it was a good attempt!
Always worth a try.
The only time it failed him.
On TV Tropes it's called a "Logic Bomb".
"Pulleys are machines, you hypocrites!" Ahahahahaha!
The comedy skit "Bill Nye is William Shatner" even includes this trope
First time I saw this episode I was struck when one of the robed guards said, "Happy Communion," as it was hours after I received my First Communion (a Roman Catholic Sacrament). When I was in 8th grade, our class was forced to watch the 1968 Zeferelli "Romeo and Juliet." In the scene early in the film where they were fighting in the open market, my friend exclaimed, "Festival! Festival!"
Thank you for your channel. Your warmth and insights are truly needed in this ever growing and scary new world we are in.
"Whatever, or whoever, they are doing" I love that
I Love your new musical intro! it immediately put me into a good mood. :D
You forgot "For the World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky" and "Spock's Brain"
BRAIN AND BRAIN, WHAT IS BRAIN?!
Yeah we all try to forget Spocks Brain.
For The World Is Hollow... did involve the Yonadan Oracle, but Kirk didn't logic-loop it to death (which is what this video is all about). That one involved Kirk and Spock reading the "Book of the People" - basically the Oracle's instructions - and fixing the problem manually.
The M5 episode had always left me thinking it's all about the old idea of "technology bad, progress bad, return to pre-fire lifestyle", which resurfaces every time there's a big technological, scientific or social step (heliocentric model, steam engine, electricity, trains, germ theory, relativity, space exploration, computers, internet, AI, etc.), with lots of people thinking the last new thing will destroy society and it ends up being the oposite.
However your words at the end made me see these episodes in a different light, which I appreciate and makes me like Star Trek even more than before.
Your writing has really grown over the years, a perfect balance of humor and depth.
Another great exploration of some classic( and TNG) trek episodes and themes! Great job, Steve!
Clicked on a whim. Subscribed because of a well laid out, well supported argument (and lines like 'he doesn't like, bite the computer'..).
There's a similar story in Dr Who in 1978's "The Face Of Evil". The 4th Dr lands on a planet where two conflicting tribes, astronauts and cavemen respectively, are worshipping a super computer. Unfortunately the computer is based on The Dr's own brain, he'd left it there millennia ago to protect a group of human astronauts, half of whom have devolved into cave people. He forgot about it and it's now gone completely insane and he has to destroy it. Good stuff.
Kirk vs Glados!
Ultimate showdown!
Kirk vs human sized and physical Cortana.
I remember when I saw the Purge, I thought, "haven't I seen this somewhere?"
You're a Funny Guy: But the Red Nose Is Unnecessary
Star Trek Unnaturally
Been following / enjoying your videos for a while now. This one hit close to home, not only for the examination of a classic Trek trope, but how compelling it was to a 12 year old kid when it first aired. The concept of Computers Bad was very familiar as, even by this time, I was fairly well-read in SF. (And, thank you for the Henry reference indicating this issue has been around well before the transistor, let alone the microchip, though probably not before stone knives and bearskins. ) Stylistically, you have an appealing combination of Trek knowledge and pop culture in general which you weave into a pleasingly entertaining narrative. Best. Leo.
Aww you missed my fav episode, I , mudd. It’s got the best scene of killing a computer with your mouth, where Spock does it in two lines, and a full snl skit to destroy the main one
I would watch Every. Single. TOS episode review that you put out. Up-doot it, share with friends, etc. I just really enjoy the way you summarize them, without missing anything important.
Assassinating super computers was such a great trope for them, they decided to make the first movie all about that very issue.
They didn't assassinate it though.
They just found it a friend.
It was a happy ending for Nomad (err Vger).
Really love the John Henry analogy. Well-played.
That abrupt dip into Spirk territory was... unexpected
And wonderful! TOS is loaded with K/S.
There's another interesting subtext to "The Ultimate Computer" - Daystrom's breakdown seems to be partially rooted in his desire to outdo his previous accomplishments. One common complaint about technology is that in order to design it one has to think like it (as someone who does and teaches aspects software development I have seen this a common complaint about programming). Consequently the episode has a version one of the lessons as "Plato's Stepchildren", oddly - the idea "do you want to be like them?"
Kirk outsmarting computers was one of my favorite thing about him and Star Trek TOS.
I love your 'paraphrasing'. It's always so much better than the original.
Steve, this was one of the best scripts for Trek Actually- bravo.
Oh, and now I see it’s not even a Trek Actually video. Well, it should be. Norman, coordinate!
The Monkees also had a really great episode addressing this that you should check out someday if you've ever got the time! Monkee Vs Machine, it's the 3rd episode of the series. I think it would be very enjoyable for you as a sort of more slapstick approach to this just for personal viewing to compare with this trope in Trek.
"The Face of a genius!"
Yep, a memorable episode considering I haven't seen it for over 40 years.
Thanks, Steve. I needed this!
I like that you highlighted this fact.
I think to make the picture complete you should have stated that fighting and tricking computers was the whole start of kirks career with the kobayashi maru test.
And then at some point in the intervening century, they plugged Llandru back in. Good job!
I just lost it laughing at the begining of the Lower Decks episode "No Small Parts" when they started off riffing on Landru!
Funny, death by biting was not the first thing popped into my head when you said "with his mouth".
Great stuff. Should include Norman (I, Mudd), V'Ger, Dr. Korby & the gang on Exo III (all robotic ALF's), proving Enterprise computer wrong in Court Martial, destroying Trelayne's computer power source, stealing the Air Force's computer records of their presence on Tomorrow is Yesterday, enlisting Gary Seven into disabling his own computer, destroying Eminiar 7's war computers, Destroying Apollo's power source (likely computer-operated), destroying the programmed robotic planet-killer (and Kirk fixing two benevolent computers, on Yonada and Mirimani's planet, to atone for his computercidal ways)
Anyone who does not respect the dangers of artificial intelligence, does not deserve recognition for having or possessing intelligence of any great reverence.
The bit on Lower Decks when they go back to the planet from Return of the Archons and everyone just.. went back to worshipping the computer was one of my favorite jokes in that show
There's a number of hilarious things about this episode. The key one being that after the end of the "festival" the entire place is trashed, and people go back into their habitual coma. But the people make no attempt to pick things up because of the coma, yet at some point, everything is repaired, and things are cleaned up, as if nothing had happened: no broken windows, no nothing, and supposedly this is going on every night.
This was a favorite of an old friend of mine, and we used to walk around at work saying "Shhh, Landru will hear". Other phrases would be something like, "Are you of the body?"
The short story "With folded hands" covers this subject perfectly
I'm going through your back catalog and I just have to say, the fan fiction tangents of Spock and Kirk smolders and McCoy dialogue just send me. 😂
Big fan of your synopses.
The secret of the other M's? M1-3 blew up, some sort of sabotage or assembly error. M4 disappears in space and time until season 3
This is my first viewing of your channel. Fucking sold.
I was in stitches the whole video.
Thanks fam.
I’m reminded of the “Simpsons” episode where the two vacuous drive-time DJs are threatened by being replaced by a machine. At one point, the computer says, “Looks-like-those-clowns-in-Congress-are-at-it-again. What-a-bunch-of-clowns.” “How does it keep up with the news like that?” asks one. “Don’t praise the machine,” says the other.
"That scene between Kirk and McCoy in "The Ultimate Computer", where Kirk ponders whether or not he's allows too much of his sense of self-worth to be wrapped up in him being a starship captain, is a rare moment of introspection for him - " or for anyone full stop.
Not talkimg about "I, Mudd" and how the crew as a whole screwed up an entire population of walking, talking computers.
You missed an oppurtunity Steve.
But loved it never the less. Keep up the great work.
Really like this video. I remember when Star Trek the Motion picture came out I saw the machine wining in two places:
First, too many special effects. Awesome, but they dwarf the presence of the actors and all you're seeing is a magic lantern show.
Secondly, joining with a machine? After Kirk killed so many computers? I don't think so. I hate McCoy's line when he said that they've witnessed the next step in their evolution. That was the most un-McCoy action I've ever seen.
I really enjoyed this. Thank you.
You left out the reference to Captain Dunsel!
That message is pretty applicable today, with things like using AI for mortgage approvals and deciding minor criminal cases.
Kidney Woman in Star Trek IV The Voyage Home: HE GAVE ME A PILL AND I GOT A NEW KIDNEY!
"Don't worry about those Other Ms" is a philosophy that can be applied in a multitude of media. o.o
Considering...history...rooting for John Henry's a little uncomfortable, too. It's like "OK, black people ARE the better pieces of machinery to exploit, cool beans." I just don't know what to do with it, honestly.
I dont think John Henry being black and exploitable had anything to do with the story, Henry is a free man and a laborer not a slave, such laborers were by far not restricted to blacks or minorities. Though minorities in te form of blacks Chinese and Irish did make up a notable portion of the workforce.
You also misunderstood the lesson, the point wasn't that John Henry, or black men, or man in general are te superior machine. Henry did win, but he died. He's also understood to be a far better than average man, so ultimately he died for no real gain as the machine was still able to work and likely no other man could do as much as he had done.
It was a melancholy ending and a pyrrhic victory that ushered in the inevitable age of machines.
@@DrewLSsix You can't separate his race from his exploitation in that particular historical context. You can't separate his exploitation from a proper interpretation of the folklore. The problem is more complicated than "replacing a man with a machine takes some nebulous something (sense of purpose) from a man." It's that, ideally, replacing a man with a machine *should* result in not having to do back-breaking labor in order to be allowed to eat, drink, and have shelter. But, instead, because our capitalism functions entirely on exploitation, the man, now out of a job, can't afford to survive, because the profit of replacing his labor with that of a machine is not shared with society, but funneled to the owning class. As a black man, even free, John Henry would have been *most* subject to this outcome, more than laborers of other races. Those our society considers least equal are the first to go, and are not offered jobs in middle management doing nothing productive after the fact, but are left with no support at all.
John Henry dying in order to win the contest means he was fighting to the very end to be allowed his very survival within capitalism. It wasn't some pursuit of purpose or fulfillment. It was resistance against extermination.
I swear there was a TNG where somebody tries this on Data and after a trademark confused expression, he shrugs it off and says, "That will not work on me." Did I imagine that?
return of the archons is my favourite classic episode!!!!
"Return of the Archons" was on the Heroes & Icons network last night! (Dec. 3, 2020.) Weird synchronicity!
13:15 Well... Star Trek episodes may have come out earlier, but they also had very quick shooting schedules, often six days or less.
My sister and I used to have a running gag about Kirk defeating computers with the old "hot water heater" joke.
Honorable mention: *Spock* disables a computer in "Wolf in the Fold" by telling it to calculate the exact value of pi.
I love how Landru was revisited in Lower Decks.
Where was I, Mudd? Dude you left me hanging! I was all geared up to hear you whistle a phaser sound and say, "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow." [sob]
Zoe Heriot in the Doctor Who serial the Invasion does a similar feat. It is roughly contemporaneous. I wonder if their are older examples?