@ 12:55 For those wondering: An Isaurian became emperor of the Romans, and his name is the most famous example of an Isaurian name. He's remembered in history as Emperor Zeno (a Greek name), but his birth name was Tarasis, and the full name is this: Tarasicodissa Rousombladadiotes ^Try saying that three times in a row!
Fascinating stuff, as always. Hoping they find that second Kalasma tablet, fingers crossed 🤞. Also, hieroglyphic Luwian is actually my favorite Anatolian language, at least at the moment. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you very much for the video! I'm glad I live in the time, when it's possible to get such specific and well structured information just being at home. P.S. It's a pleasure to listen to your accent
Thank you! I've lived in Poland for 11 years (on and off) but have come to accept I will always have a brummie accent when speaking Polish 😉 Pozdrawiam
Does this text, "Elements of Hittite" teach the cuneiform writing system? I read some reviews on Amazon that said it did not. I am thoroughly enjoying your channel. Studied linguistics way back 22 years ago. Trying to revive it and catch up on all the research done since then. I appreciate all bibliographic information.
This video was incredible! As a student with a deep passion for this ancient world, I am truly impressed and grateful for your work. Studying the Hittites in Korea is quite challenging, and I believe I might be the only one here pursuing this field. I'm particularly interested in finding a translation of the Kalašma text(KBo 71.145 (CTH 470)). Do you have any suggestions on where I could locate it? Thank you once again for your amazing work!
Wow, what a fantastic story you have! Great to hear that people are interested in the Hittites. I wish you well with your studies! Drop me an email: learnhittite at gmail dot com and I'll share with you Rieken and Jakubovich's first translation - it was distributed at a conference and I'm not sure it is easily available. Their translation isn't 100% finished though and I'm sure many will debate what they've come up with.
Also, I have a question...to what extent do you think Sumerian influenced the Anatolian IE languages? I'm sure your answer would be too big for a youtube comment section, but, I'm curious.
Yeah that's a tough one to answer. I suppose a lot depends on the timeline of Anatolian IE languages in the near east and their dispersion. If the Ebla archives really do show an Anatolian language in the region earlier than current popular models suggest then who knows. It seems to be debated amongst researchers about how proficient Hittite scribes were in Sumerian, I rather suppose they knew the language reasonably well so (instead of just knowing say sumerograms with specific use cases) I would expect influence in the Hittite texts we have recorded and would that not have some influence on the spoken a language at the time? at least amongst the elites. I've recently read "Sumerograms and Akkadograms in Hittite: Ideograms, Logograms, Allograms, or Heterograms?" by Kudrinski and Yakubovich, might be worth a read. Personally, I've always taken some issue with the idea that sumerograms and akkadograms would have been pronounced as the underlying Hittite word, that may have been true when Hittite grammar was attached to it but very often it's just the ideogram with zero little morphological change. I've always suspected the scribes would have known the original sonic value or approximations of it.
The theory that Proto-Anatolian is a sister language, rather than a daughter one, to PIE does make sense... after all, PIE couldn't have sprung up in isolation, especially with the non-PIE language families nearby!
Yeah I saw it too, pretty interesting. I've not read the work that the discussion was based on though but it's high on my list. Do you think that a video about all the potential proto languages to PIE would be interesting? I thought about doing one just on Proto-Indo-Uralic but maybe I could expand the scope
@@LearnHittite Yes that would be very interesting. Jackson Crawford and guests thought there was something to the study. The obvious but very speculative conclusion would be that if proto Indo Basque originated in Caucasus or Anatolia, and then split, then perhaps proto Basque was maybe a language that moved westwards from Anatolia with early European farmers and indo-Anatolian/Indo European split somewhere around or near Anatolia, before PIE moved up to become Kurgan culture.
Great question! I'm not sure there is an agreed upon answer to it though. I personally don't see any reason to think it wasn't an Anatolian language, probably derived from proto-Luwian, maybe even Kalasmaic, Palaic. Interestingly, researcher Kloekhorst, an Anatolian language expert who I mentioned in this video, published an article about 12 years ago where he said it was a precursor to Etruscan. No idea what he was basing that on or whether he still holds that opinion though. Isolate is also possible.
@@LearnHittite if some of the extant letters reveal that the Hittites had a conflict with Troy and used Ahhiyawa or Mycenaeans as mercenaries against them (if I heard that last audiobook correctly) ...can we draw a conclusion that there was a significant language or cultural difference btw Hittites and Trojans? Or simply a political one?
I have read the Kloekhorst 2022 article and the Beekes 2002 article on the matter. Beekes adduces 24 pieces of evidence that the Etruscans originate from Troy: • Herodotus' account. • The Etruscans were referred to as Pelasgians. (This alone is established with reference to several authors to connect the dots.) • Both were Τυρσηνός. • The Lemnos inscription. • Herodotus says that the people of Plakiê and Skylakê ("Skylake?" hehe. Σκυλάκη), two small places east of Cyzicus on the southern shore of the Sea of Marmara, spoke the same language as...well...our copy of Herodotus says Krêstôn, but Dionysios of Halicarnassus quotes Herodotus as saying Krotôn, that is, Cortona, Tuscany. Briquel 1984 convinced Beekes that Krotôn is the proper reading. • The Kumdanlı inscription, from Gondane (Isparta/Baris, west central Turkey), 2nd-3rd c. AD, line 4: "[Αὐρ. Ἀσκ]ληπιάδης Ἀλεξάνδρου [Θ]υρση[νός]" • The suffix -ānos (whence Attic -ēnos) in Τυρρηνός is ubiquitous in northwestern Asia Minor and much rarer elsewhere. • Steinbauer's (1999) identification of shared vocabulary between (IE Anatolian) Lydian and Etruscan. I can't see the original text at the moment, but there is a website (claimed to be) by Steinbauer mentioning Etruscan maχ=Lemnian mau "4" (note; maχ is more commonly suspected to mean 5) and two grammatical endings. One could, I guess, also E-mail Steinbauer about his current views on the matter. • Equating the Etruscan legendary hero Tarchon (Briquel 1991) with the storm-god Tarhunt of Asia Minor. • Hellanikos says that the Etruscans who came were led by Nanas/Nanos, a well-known Lallname of Anatolia, especially Lydia. • Versnel (1970) showed, to Beekes' satisfaction, that the triumph, its shout thriambe, and thus triumpe of the Etruscan god Tinia (=Dionysos) originates in a New Year's celebration of Asia Minor. • The double-axe (bipennis) labrús/dabrús shows up in Lydia and Etruria as a symbol of kingship. I might add, isn't it interesting how this sound must have been between an /l/ and a /d/? Odysseus=Ulysses, labúrinthos=dabúrinthos etc. • The Roman name Camillus is said by Varro to derive from Kadmilos/Kasmilos who is one of the Kabeiroi, and its initial stress corroborates that Camillus is of Etruscan origin. The Kabeiroi were chthonic gods worshipped in Imbros, Lemnos, Samothrace, and Thebes. Here Beekes also mentions hepatoscopy, that is using livers to scry. • The constant conception of the Etruscans as "strange" and "foreign" by both the Italians and Greeks. • Tuscany is in no way topographically a withdrawal area (that is, of a more ancient people). • The obvious break between Bronze Age Apennine and Proto-Villanovan cultures. • The 1200 crisis. • The Etruscans' ten saecula bring us back to an origin (of their state?) in or around the tenth century BCE. • Herodotus' mention of the famine. I think we've seen more about this famine since 2002. • The sea peoples T(w)r(w)š and Lukka. • Ceramics of the 13th century BCE show that the Mycenaeans knew the sea-route to Italy (or, I would say, that at least someone did). • Pliny says that the Etruscans conquered 300 cities from the Umbrians. I personally think that this point is HUGE. • Aeneas' friend Sergestus appears to be Lydian Srkastu-, Phrygian Surkastos. • Homer mentions two Pelasgian sons of Lêthos fighting on the Trojan side. The Etruscan leθe and its derivatives are very common in inscriptions. Now, there are two important facts to keep in mind: If Etruscan has an origin in Asia Minor then that doesn't mean that Etruscan derives singly, or even principally, from the region. I happen to believe that it does derive principally from there, or at least in league with the Trojan coast, but one could be looking at a native language of the Italian peninsula with a hefty helping of "Lydian Trojan" influence, much as in the case of English influenced by French. And also, it doesn't mean that the only, or prestige, or even majority language of Troy was Tyrrhenian. The Iliad, for instance, mentions the Trojan soldiers speaking many different languages. (If anyone is wondering: none if this is claiming shared ancestry between Etruscan and Indo-European Anatolian Lydian, but rather contact in antiquity.) Finally, it also wouldn't mean that Troy was necessarily their ultimate origin. For instance, the Etruscans could be originally from the Thessalian plain.
@@ЛеонидФедяков-ъ9яHerodotus and geographer Strabo mentioned Phrygians as a GrecoThracian tribe who migraded in Anatolia . Greeks considered their language ( indoeuropean) to be a part of the Greek branch of dialects. Modern days researches and ancient sources has proved that Armenians are a mixture of Urartians and Phrygians - thats why their ( indoeuropean) language related to Greek..
St Paul probably met many speakers of Anatolian languages on his missionary journeys. I'm most interested in when he and Barnabas visited Lystra, where at first the natives thought the two of them were gods. St Luke, writing the Acts of the Apostles in Greek, writes that 'when they [the natives] saw what Paul had done they raised their voice in Lycaonian (Greek 'Lukaonisti'), saying that the gods, having been made similar to men, came down to us'. Does anybody know what this Lycaonian language was?
I mean no disrespect, but I get concerned when I see Wikipedia as your sources. I'm not sure if it's just for video copyright reasons, but they get vandalized or taken over by nationalists so I've lost faith. I have subbed so would love further expansion. For example Kurdish language is linked to hittites so wondering if you've touched on that and I've always wondered the arguments for and against, whether you're an expert or learning as you go. Also what do you think of Zazaki language.
I've mainly used wikipedia for maps or tree diagrams as they are open source and it means I don't have to draw them myself. They are all checked and verified, I always draw or create myself the images which are innacurate or unavailable elsewhere. Obviously I can't just post maps and tables from other people's published work. All key information is found in the resource list in the video description. Kurdish language is only distantly linked to Hittite via its relationship as an Indo-European language.
Possibly Hattic and way back in the 1920's a few researchers thought that another IE language could be a substratum language to Hittite but that was when even Hittite as an IE language was debated.
Yes, Indo-Uralic video please!
academics obssessed with sacred and unquestionable indo-uralic theory
can't wait til he can Finnish it
I found it very funny that when you say "well" the image of a well appears
Glad you liked it 👍
An image springs to mind
Nice one 😉
Great Video
Thanks a lot! Your support is really appreciated.
Very impressed with your attempt to locate Kalašma within the Anatolian branch. As far as I can tell you're the first to do so publicly!
Thanks for your kind words! Maybe I'm the first that has said more than it is vaguely Luwian related... 👍
@ 12:55
For those wondering: An Isaurian became emperor of the Romans, and his name is the most famous example of an Isaurian name. He's remembered in history as Emperor Zeno (a Greek name), but his birth name was Tarasis, and the full name is this:
Tarasicodissa Rousombladadiotes
^Try saying that three times in a row!
Fascinating stuff, as always. Hoping they find that second Kalasma tablet, fingers crossed 🤞. Also, hieroglyphic Luwian is actually my favorite Anatolian language, at least at the moment. Thank you for all you do.
I just find hieroglyphic luwian incrediby beautiful to look at. It's a script of art. Plus the grammar/morphology is neat!
Thank you! Great video!
Glad you liked it!
Thx a lot.
Thanks for your support!
Thank you, that you make Videos about the genetic ancestors of anatolian turkish people👏
Modern turks are a mixture of indigenous peoples and central Asian invaders
@@Rotebuehl1 Wait!!! so you're saying anatolians dont naturaly have central asian dna????? who whould hane thought!!!!!
Thank you very much for the video! I'm glad I live in the time, when it's possible to get such specific and well structured information just being at home. P.S. It's a pleasure to listen to your accent
Glad you like it and thanks for your support!
Love your channel, can't wait for more info on Kalasma. As Polish I was very happy to hear you pronouncing Popko's book, really not bad :)
Thank you! I've lived in Poland for 11 years (on and off) but have come to accept I will always have a brummie accent when speaking Polish 😉 Pozdrawiam
@@LearnHittite also, indo-uralic video please, I'd adore it ❤️
Thanks!
Wow thank you very much for your support!
@@LearnHittite Thank you very much for these addictive programs!!...
Does this text, "Elements of Hittite" teach the cuneiform writing system? I read some reviews on Amazon that said it did not. I am thoroughly enjoying your channel. Studied linguistics way back 22 years ago. Trying to revive it and catch up on all the research done since then. I appreciate all bibliographic information.
It does teach it yes!
First of Anatolian languages is Circassian (Hittitian) Language
This video was incredible! As a student with a deep passion for this ancient world, I am truly impressed and grateful for your work. Studying the Hittites in Korea is quite challenging, and I believe I might be the only one here pursuing this field.
I'm particularly interested in finding a translation of the Kalašma text(KBo 71.145 (CTH 470)). Do you have any suggestions on where I could locate it? Thank you once again for your amazing work!
Wow, what a fantastic story you have! Great to hear that people are interested in the Hittites. I wish you well with your studies! Drop me an email: learnhittite at gmail dot com and I'll share with you Rieken and Jakubovich's first translation - it was distributed at a conference and I'm not sure it is easily available. Their translation isn't 100% finished though and I'm sure many will debate what they've come up with.
@@LearnHittite I will drop you an email. I really appreciate your response and I’m looking forward to the next video!
Indo-Uralic please!
Also, I have a question...to what extent do you think Sumerian influenced the Anatolian IE languages? I'm sure your answer would be too big for a youtube comment section, but, I'm curious.
Yeah that's a tough one to answer. I suppose a lot depends on the timeline of Anatolian IE languages in the near east and their dispersion. If the Ebla archives really do show an Anatolian language in the region earlier than current popular models suggest then who knows. It seems to be debated amongst researchers about how proficient Hittite scribes were in Sumerian, I rather suppose they knew the language reasonably well so (instead of just knowing say sumerograms with specific use cases) I would expect influence in the Hittite texts we have recorded and would that not have some influence on the spoken a language at the time? at least amongst the elites. I've recently read "Sumerograms and Akkadograms in Hittite: Ideograms, Logograms, Allograms, or Heterograms?" by Kudrinski and Yakubovich, might be worth a read.
Personally, I've always taken some issue with the idea that sumerograms and akkadograms would have been pronounced as the underlying Hittite word, that may have been true when Hittite grammar was attached to it but very often it's just the ideogram with zero little morphological change. I've always suspected the scribes would have known the original sonic value or approximations of it.
The theory that Proto-Anatolian is a sister language, rather than a daughter one, to PIE does make sense... after all, PIE couldn't have sprung up in isolation, especially with the non-PIE language families nearby!
I wonder how this connects to pontiaka romeika? We call trabzon trapezounta and kalachevo means I speak
I saw a video recently which links Basque to Indo-European. It was on the channel of the guy who specialises in Old Norse, forget his name.
@JacksonCrawford
Yeah I saw it too, pretty interesting. I've not read the work that the discussion was based on though but it's high on my list.
Do you think that a video about all the potential proto languages to PIE would be interesting? I thought about doing one just on Proto-Indo-Uralic but maybe I could expand the scope
@@LearnHittite Yes, that would be interesting. Thanks for the great work!
@@LearnHittite Yes that would be very interesting. Jackson Crawford and guests thought there was something to the study. The obvious but very speculative conclusion would be that if proto Indo Basque originated in Caucasus or Anatolia, and then split, then perhaps proto Basque was maybe a language that moved westwards from Anatolia with early European farmers and indo-Anatolian/Indo European split somewhere around or near Anatolia, before PIE moved up to become Kurgan culture.
@@1297wombat The problem with it moving with EEFs was that they moved West something like 8-5Ky BC, much much earlier than Yanamnaya.
What would have been spoken in Troy? Language isolate? Canaanite city?
Great question! I'm not sure there is an agreed upon answer to it though. I personally don't see any reason to think it wasn't an Anatolian language, probably derived from proto-Luwian, maybe even Kalasmaic, Palaic. Interestingly, researcher Kloekhorst, an Anatolian language expert who I mentioned in this video, published an article about 12 years ago where he said it was a precursor to Etruscan. No idea what he was basing that on or whether he still holds that opinion though.
Isolate is also possible.
@@LearnHittite if some of the extant letters reveal that the Hittites had a conflict with Troy and used Ahhiyawa or Mycenaeans as mercenaries against them (if I heard that last audiobook correctly) ...can we draw a conclusion that there was a significant language or cultural difference btw Hittites and Trojans? Or simply a political one?
I have read the Kloekhorst 2022 article and the Beekes 2002 article on the matter. Beekes adduces 24 pieces of evidence that the Etruscans originate from Troy:
• Herodotus' account.
• The Etruscans were referred to as Pelasgians. (This alone is established with reference to several authors to connect the dots.)
• Both were Τυρσηνός.
• The Lemnos inscription.
• Herodotus says that the people of Plakiê and Skylakê ("Skylake?" hehe. Σκυλάκη), two small places east of Cyzicus on the southern shore of the Sea of Marmara, spoke the same language as...well...our copy of Herodotus says Krêstôn, but Dionysios of Halicarnassus quotes Herodotus as saying Krotôn, that is, Cortona, Tuscany. Briquel 1984 convinced Beekes that Krotôn is the proper reading.
• The Kumdanlı inscription, from Gondane (Isparta/Baris, west central Turkey), 2nd-3rd c. AD, line 4: "[Αὐρ. Ἀσκ]ληπιάδης Ἀλεξάνδρου [Θ]υρση[νός]"
• The suffix -ānos (whence Attic -ēnos) in Τυρρηνός is ubiquitous in northwestern Asia Minor and much rarer elsewhere.
• Steinbauer's (1999) identification of shared vocabulary between (IE Anatolian) Lydian and Etruscan. I can't see the original text at the moment, but there is a website (claimed to be) by Steinbauer mentioning Etruscan maχ=Lemnian mau "4" (note; maχ is more commonly suspected to mean 5) and two grammatical endings. One could, I guess, also E-mail Steinbauer about his current views on the matter.
• Equating the Etruscan legendary hero Tarchon (Briquel 1991) with the storm-god Tarhunt of Asia Minor.
• Hellanikos says that the Etruscans who came were led by Nanas/Nanos, a well-known Lallname of Anatolia, especially Lydia.
• Versnel (1970) showed, to Beekes' satisfaction, that the triumph, its shout thriambe, and thus triumpe of the Etruscan god Tinia (=Dionysos) originates in a New Year's celebration of Asia Minor.
• The double-axe (bipennis) labrús/dabrús shows up in Lydia and Etruria as a symbol of kingship. I might add, isn't it interesting how this sound must have been between an /l/ and a /d/? Odysseus=Ulysses, labúrinthos=dabúrinthos etc.
• The Roman name Camillus is said by Varro to derive from Kadmilos/Kasmilos who is one of the Kabeiroi, and its initial stress corroborates that Camillus is of Etruscan origin. The Kabeiroi were chthonic gods worshipped in Imbros, Lemnos, Samothrace, and Thebes. Here Beekes also mentions hepatoscopy, that is using livers to scry.
• The constant conception of the Etruscans as "strange" and "foreign" by both the Italians and Greeks.
• Tuscany is in no way topographically a withdrawal area (that is, of a more ancient people).
• The obvious break between Bronze Age Apennine and Proto-Villanovan cultures.
• The 1200 crisis.
• The Etruscans' ten saecula bring us back to an origin (of their state?) in or around the tenth century BCE.
• Herodotus' mention of the famine. I think we've seen more about this famine since 2002.
• The sea peoples T(w)r(w)š and Lukka.
• Ceramics of the 13th century BCE show that the Mycenaeans knew the sea-route to Italy (or, I would say, that at least someone did).
• Pliny says that the Etruscans conquered 300 cities from the Umbrians. I personally think that this point is HUGE.
• Aeneas' friend Sergestus appears to be Lydian Srkastu-, Phrygian Surkastos.
• Homer mentions two Pelasgian sons of Lêthos fighting on the Trojan side. The Etruscan leθe and its derivatives are very common in inscriptions.
Now, there are two important facts to keep in mind: If Etruscan has an origin in Asia Minor then that doesn't mean that Etruscan derives singly, or even principally, from the region. I happen to believe that it does derive principally from there, or at least in league with the Trojan coast, but one could be looking at a native language of the Italian peninsula with a hefty helping of "Lydian Trojan" influence, much as in the case of English influenced by French.
And also, it doesn't mean that the only, or prestige, or even majority language of Troy was Tyrrhenian. The Iliad, for instance, mentions the Trojan soldiers speaking many different languages.
(If anyone is wondering: none if this is claiming shared ancestry between Etruscan and Indo-European Anatolian Lydian, but rather contact in antiquity.)
Finally, it also wouldn't mean that Troy was necessarily their ultimate origin. For instance, the Etruscans could be originally from the Thessalian plain.
What is the relationship between the Anatolian languages and the Armenian language?
No relation
@@gelbsan oh, really? The fact that they are all Indo-European doesn’t count, does it?
@@ЛеонидФедяков-ъ9я Sorry, my bad. they both are also human.
@@ЛеонидФедяков-ъ9яHerodotus and geographer Strabo mentioned Phrygians as a GrecoThracian tribe who migraded in Anatolia . Greeks considered their language ( indoeuropean) to be a part of the Greek branch of dialects. Modern days researches and ancient sources has proved that Armenians are a mixture of Urartians and Phrygians - thats why their ( indoeuropean) language related to Greek..
The reference for the comment I have just made is Acts 14,11.
St Paul probably met many speakers of Anatolian languages on his missionary journeys. I'm most interested in when he and Barnabas visited Lystra, where at first the natives thought the two of them were gods. St Luke, writing the Acts of the Apostles in Greek, writes that 'when they [the natives] saw what Paul had done they raised their voice in Lycaonian (Greek 'Lukaonisti'), saying that the gods, having been made similar to men, came down to us'.
Does anybody know what this Lycaonian language was?
Luwi, Lydi, Lyci....😅
I mean no disrespect, but I get concerned when I see Wikipedia as your sources. I'm not sure if it's just for video copyright reasons, but they get vandalized or taken over by nationalists so I've lost faith. I have subbed so would love further expansion. For example Kurdish language is linked to hittites so wondering if you've touched on that and I've always wondered the arguments for and against, whether you're an expert or learning as you go. Also what do you think of Zazaki language.
I've mainly used wikipedia for maps or tree diagrams as they are open source and it means I don't have to draw them myself. They are all checked and verified, I always draw or create myself the images which are innacurate or unavailable elsewhere. Obviously I can't just post maps and tables from other people's published work. All key information is found in the resource list in the video description. Kurdish language is only distantly linked to Hittite via its relationship as an Indo-European language.
if you don't learn Kalasma we can't be friends
The words anatolian and language have greek etymology.
is there a substratum of an earlier language in hittite? like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum_in_Vedic_Sanskrit
Possibly Hattic and way back in the 1920's a few researchers thought that another IE language could be a substratum language to Hittite but that was when even Hittite as an IE language was debated.