Flagger Solutions | Deegan, Ty, And Vialle's Season Almost DONE | Safety Featuring Ryno Hughes
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Radios Heads Up Displays and Lights are all great ideas for what happened.
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My apologizes privateer that crashed was Bailey Kroone.
Radios Heads Up Displays and Lights are all great ideas for prevention.
Johnny, you need to get the rep from race control which is a product from my lapse. Race control provides automated caution light activation. It uses another transponder that looks like the timing transponder.
@@rockman4699interesting thank you
@@Johnny_Hopper You are most welcome. We need technology to complement flaggers as it is definitely proven we are not going to fix the flagging problem. If we were going to, it would have happened by now.
Ryno is 100% correct. Professional safety workers are required to protect the product, the riders.
100% like wtf how is this even a question
We love the riders we must protect them.
We need to have technology utilized and flaggers. Given there aren't enough flaggers now or for the last umpteen years, I am looking towards Race Control which relies upon technology and not flaggers to activate caution lights. Ultimate would be one way comms to the riders with Caution Caution or Keep Line Keep Line when about to be passed. Later we'll have LEDs in googles too I believe.
THIS SPORT NEEDS PROFFESIONALY trained and paid flaggers , no question. Look at pro stick and ball sports, this spory
No argument but rub a lamp if you think that is in the cards.
Ryno said it's only being talked about because it involves Deegan is correct, if it was someone in 23rd or whatever it wouldn't be discussed in depth as it is!
Hey, whatever it takes shouldn't matter who!
Whenever the points leader who ever it is gets takin out by a downed bike and it couldve been prevented with better flaggers everyone will talk about it! Do you think if Vialle was the points leader and he gets takin out by a downed bike they wouldnt talk about it??!! Honestly if that was anyone but Deegan they would be in the Hospital!!!
Trading cucksey for RYNO is the ultimate upgrade
Kooksey punching air. About to start more Ryno rumors.
@@jpesicka492😂😂
Any solution is better than what’s going on. Time to try something different if we expect a different outcome.
Two flaggers for every blind landing jump ! One before the lip one by the landing!
and those two flaggers talking to each other with head sets.
BOTH before the jump or on that side with one spying on the landing or make it 3 with head sets & the 2 up front MUST direct the racers to the safer side of the track, even if that means GETTING IN THEIR WAY, like a rodeo clown, PROTECT THE RACERS, PERIOD!!
You need a flagger both sides of the track.
I vote for lights! From the crash to Haiden landing on the bike was 5 seconds. There must be dedicated yellow flaggers on every blind jump. Even with a dedicated flagger, it would take two to three seconds for the flag. Not sure even that would have helped in this situation. Two seconds after the crash Deegs was committed to jump.
Title24 said there was a light on that jump. Flagger have 2 hands, yet hold 1 flag in their hands? They're "taught" horribly! ZERO reason They're not mainly looking at the landing.
Lights are common on popular tracks in Italy like Dorno. Works fine.
I vote for communication inside the helmet
@@poppianejo3856 we aren't there yet but it will come but only way comms for caution alerts.
They do it this way For the last 50 years WHY it’s CHEAP 😮 here’s a T shirt thanks 😢
Well maybe Davey Coombs should make safety a priority, and quit lining his pockets!
The professional sport of motocross is so much more dangerous than typical sports and motorsports that the sanctioning body must take action. It will cost a lot more to go racing, but lives could be on the line someday. It’s sad, but everything is getting more expensive. Amatures and sportsmen are the ones footing the bill by purchasing the gear and parts
Throw into the equation the basic lack of attention to safety issues against the expense, it speaks volumes to the strength of the MX addiction we all have. Civilians don't understand but I don't think I do either.
Military uses awesome headset that has guys that will join and exit the group as they get close enough like so many feet you could do the exact same thing and motocross with jumps Selective knowledge like you’ll only hear the warning if you’re close enough to the jump that’s in question
I like Rhinos idea, one mic for the ref with numbered jumps. "rider down jump 1 left side", "jump 1 clear". easy peasy
Me too. You could even put number signs on the track.
The radio idea while good, would require a spotter to radio the referee then the referee makes the announcement, meanwhile 3 or 4 riders have already passed through. Then the spotter has to radio in when clear, then the referee can radio out all clear. All takes time. What happens if there is multiple incidents at the same time 🤯. Experienced flaggers at take off and landing with clear lines of site to each other will be faster response.
If the rider has to remember which jump is jump #3, you’ll get CRS dudes killing people.
Cooksey is so off he claimed Hymas waxed Deegan making the crash seem minimal. The fact that the broadcast never showed the crash was brutal also I think they didn’t want the NBC non viewers to see the bad side of the sport
It’s not a 1 in a million.. this is at least the 3rd time it’s happened this year. It’s time to put radios in the helmet. We can discuss team communication later but let’s get the radios and allow the race director to have direct contact with the riders.
Unpopular opinion but we should probably only have 30 riders on the gate. The last 10 or so riders are 10+ seconds a lap slower. They aren’t even in the race and are a safety hazard
Flagger must always look downstream. (Mostly)
Can't help the rider by leaving the post.
Big commitment jumps need two flaggers.
The upstream flagger should SEE the main jump guy...or radios between these two.
Riders need time to shut down.
If this makes sense. 😅
*DISAGREE with Lappers getting BLACK🏴FLAGGED to pull off, especially in MX*
(I'm all for radios replacing the pit board)
Moto GP uses bike mounted LCD screens to alert riders..
why not test a GREEN LED on a few jumps
then WHEN RED slow down
Good suggestion, will add to the cost of racing.
@@kcinbnavi in a sport where athletes and promoters are making big bucks the money is out there. It is a matter of appreciating the riders AKA the talent. If I worked for Race Control I would approach the OEMs....Japanese Big 4, KTM Group. If the five of them all kicked in 70K according to my rough estimation, that would pay for the Race Control system that would travel the circuit and a couple hundred transponders. Please don't hold me to this number but is with 15 to 20 percent. To me, it isn't a matter of we can't afford it but we cannot afford to not get Race Control. Pala Press Day was a shot across our bow. 20 years ago newly signed KTM rider Donavan Mitchell was paralzyed after a flagger left his blind jump position to render aid. Huge pile up ensued and Ernesto Fonseca split his helmet!
@CoachRobb SINCE THEY HAVE GPS THEY SHOULD USE THE SAME TECHNOLOGY AS iPHONE.
WHEN THE BIKE COMES TO A STOP, THE RED LIGHT ATTACHED TO THE GOGGLE LENS LIGHTS UP FOR ARRIVING RIDERS.
JUST HAVE THE SAFETY CREW MEMBERS TO ASSIST THE DOWNED RIDERS.
HUD lights in goggles seems fully doable
The problem is that the flaggers think they should help the fallen rider out and so they do that instead of waving the flag. The flaggers are there to flag and if a rider needs assistance then have an assistant /medical person there. The flags also need to be visable before jumps and the flagger insistent on showing the flag.
A mobile light system with a dedicated finger on the button on every blind jump, with an additional arrow light to direct traffic.
I've been a flagger at a few supercrosses back in the 90s. The promoters and the AMA usually find locals to flag. There is a lot of volunteers and you don't get paid in most cases
I wrote a letter to the AMA a few years ago suggesting the flags have an arrow on them. --->
Go to the local races in the area and recruit people with actual on the track experience. Flaggers when I was in grade school were better than the ones the pros get, unreal.
Gawd in 1979 I remember a novice racer getting completely pummeled by the rest of the pack. The flagger was trying to help while waving the flag behind the jump. The guy was not conscious when it was all done.
Pro group of flaggers 100 percent
I do agree with Ryan, with the riders having the radio. Because these riders need to focus on the active changes with track conditions. It might seem better but it could complicate or overwhelm the riders. If we had one voice over radio that lets all riders know in a simple way to be cautious during a section of the track i believe would help. But if there was a radio linked to the teams would give to much insider advantage to the point things can get manipulated to easily.
I believe we should invest more on flagger complication, or have the flaggers run radios that have thier own basic codes. We could implement an incredible flag team system that could have fixed the Supercross gate drop problem this year.
A light, can turn yellow, blue, greed, or red, on the bike and visible to the rider, triggered proximally in an area of the track when a referee at that location pushes the appropriate color of button.
Flagger in a elevated stand next to every jump or blind section. Now the flagger has a better view of the track and they are more visible to riders. Put your “Qualified Flaggers” in the stand and your local higher’s on the ground. Check out Swan Mx in Tyler,Tx. Give the flaggers headsets not the riders.
Every rider could have a heads up display in their helmet, or lights in their visor. When a lead rider comes within 50 feet, his bike triggers a blue light in the lapped riders helmet. Flaggers at every dangerous spot can trigger a yellow light that displays in every rider's helmet when they are within 50 feet of the hazard
It would be interesting if the referees had radios, but with proximity chat like in video games so that only the riders coming up on the section with the downed rider would hear it. That way it isn’t even a distraction unless you’re coming up to that specific blind jump
As a Promoter Only 2 crews jobs are to SAFE a LIFE. The EMTs and the Flaggers. The Flaggers more so can help stopand prevent . major injuries, career ending, pile ups. The EMT is after the fact . The flaggers are Preventive making SO important. The right attitude is the MOST important. Let's be professional at SAVING LIFE finally. Trained and educated. Ex Racers ; Racers .would be perfect
Professional flaggers they should have trainded people for each race
Well TRAINDED
End of problem ..
Instead of holding a flag have the flaggers have a "stick with a button on top to activate the flashing color led" yellow blue red light, led can change color, in the helmet or goggles.
I'll bet you could augment flaggers with track mounted battery powered LED display boards on the most visible side of each blind jump and at critical places on the track. Yellow flashing > or a big red flashing X / medic cross no jump symbol , or a blue square for lappers. All remotely controlled by a dedicated crew of spotters and track officials. For example, VEVOR sells a 40X14"LED Programmable P10 Digital Full Color Display board for $185.99. Then, when not racing, scroll sponsor logos on the signs with ad space that can be bought by sponsors, thus paying for itself or turning a profit.
Ditto. The flaggers should be trained, certified and pro jobs. Compare to the medical team dude when Webb crashed in supercross, I think Dallas?? The one that took him out of championship and Tomac won. The dude literally made sure he dodged the bike while being 100% focused on getting to Webb. I watched that replay several times. Dude was a pro
Staff is definitely a issue in AMA.
Ive flagged pro nationals back when WW was on the schedule and for larger or blind jumps we ran two person teams one at the bottom of the face of the jump and one who would see the landing and work off of each other, and an AMA official would be in the area woth the blue
I think we have to try communication before we make assumptions. Maybe the riders will say it doesn't bother me in the least this is a huge help I absolutely love it. Maybe it's so comfortable they have a conversation about what's for dinner tonight 😂
Let's walk before we run and start with speakers inside the helmet for caution alerts not comms with their mechanic
Maybe the guys love communication for many reasons. Wear your competitor is what place you need to come in to win the overall. All kinds of things that may help them focus on the race more than doing math in their head or wondering different situations and being confused. It may not be a hindrance at all but a very positive step I think they need to start trying it at the practice track and go from there.
Ryno hit the nail on the head, if it was a rider outside the top 15 we wouldn’t even be talking about it
I'm pretty sure MotoGP uses volunteers. My buddy has flagged at the MotoGP race in Austin a couple times. Moto America also uses volunteers because the same friend has volunteered for them.
Professional flaggers should be at professional races. Not just local kids.
I’ve landed on bikes at local races but that is so different.
Awesome group 👍
Coach Rob: all flagged need to be aware of safety for themselves first. FIRST. Never turn your back on upcoming riders.
Two flaggers? Sounds like confusion. Accidents happen quick.
What about a stop light style that that have a yellow arrow to show witch direction to go
Mike Alessie crash comes to mind..
What about lights on the face of the jumps?
Just like in football and any other sport, you have professional referees you need professional flaggers that go around the whole entire series
Put LED on bottom side of visor.. red and yellow... left side of visor or right side for accident indicators
Imagine the storm if Deegan didn't pop right back up after this crash.
We are so lucky that Deegs did not get hurt in such a stupid avoidable situation. Local trained, AMA sanctioned (paid for) flaggers, I disagree that its the same group traveling... too expensive BUT > its on the AMA to fix this. The promoters can sanction the flaggers, but the AMA needs to own confirmation on the training. We are now a Global Sport... lets act like it.
Shouldn’t communication to the rider be rider dependent? You can tune out the crowds and the horns, you can tune out the radio. Common sense, you can communicate as little or as much as the rider requests it. Like, only when they’re passing the mechanic section, or when they’re in the air or on exits of sweepers into straight aways etc. It doesn’t have to be so complicated
I think you should put two people on the blind jumps with walkie-talkies, one on the jump face and one on the landing. So if a guy crashes on the landing like what happened here, the guy on the landing can instantly walkie-talkie to the guy on the jump face to red cross flag so nobody can jump it. I’m a fan of the professional flagger I would sign up for that if I were 20😅 Im also am a fan of coms. The race Marshall should come over the coms and say red Cross flag in split section whatever. The riders are already aware of the split timed sections so use them.
Ryan, great addition. Its not rocket science, how about have two trained flaggers per critical jump?
Every pro level high-speed racing series has team and official radio communications. Seems a simple fix
Just more flaggers especially at high risk spots, looked to me the flagger had to run to another guy to get a yellow flag, when Beaumer went down how long did it take for a flagger, he got hit twice. Is it just me or does Ryan look like Brian Deegan could be his brother, lol
Prob with the radios besides being a distraction but there's no way to prove the rider heard the command correctly, at all, or are riders gonna "not jump" in the heat of the battle
It should be the safety crew that travels the whole circuit and knows wtf there doing!! Not fans flagging a race. Its insane
There needs to be a flagger on both sides of the jump. That way when a rider is down, the side the rider is down on is the flagger that waves his flag letting the riders know to stay on the opposite side. If he’s down in the middle the both flaggers wave their flag.
But 100% they need a legitimate group of flaggers that are highly trained and don’t care about being star struck to watch the race and are actually there to do their job.
Yeah, pro ball sports there are conspiracy nuts who think refs rig games and maybe sometimes it happens, but for the most part these guys are highly trained and that is their career. A flagger at the top level of this sport should be no different.
Like ryno said, nothing will ever be 100% fullproof, things happen very quick in this sport, but you can limit these things from happening by having a trained group who are getting paid a decent amount to do a very important job. It’s honestly one of the most important jobs on the track because a flagger could potentially be the reason a rider gets landed on and lives or dies. I’m not sure why the track officials aren’t the ones flagging and why they would ever think hiring some random guys and girls off the street from the local area and paying them a ridiculously small amount to do such an important job at the highest level was ever a good idea.
Greedy Davy Coombs is not interested in improving flagging and rider safety. Its about ticket sales and counting cash
Hopper needs to call out Coombs for this.
2 guys at every yellow flag are again. Once there’s a crash, one guy goes to the crash to help with bike and rider, the other stands up top but out in front of where the crash is at to point to one side or the other. These guys are getting paid, they need to be on the edge of track ready to move!They have to get out on the track to help. The other guy with flag would be out in front in visible ste!!🤷♂️
I go to races and see flaggers looking backwards on the track all the time. It makes me want to scream at them. They must look forward on the track for every bit of the race.
DUDE, how can you warn someone that is coming at you about a problem that they are going to RAM INTO that is coming up, IF YOU NEVER LOOK BEHIND TO SEE IF THE TRACK IS CLEAR????
I think they need to have a team of 5 guys trained and put them on dangerous spots and volunteers on the rest of track under those 5 guys
I think flaggers should go through a training class just like a real job, and have to qualify for the job
561 to 303.....gun clubs finest.. palm beach represent
Tracks themselves need to be brought up to a modern day standard.. I’ve seen more tech on an RC track.. You need every bike gps tracked and when a crash or sudden stop is detected lights will flash only in that section of track… Noway the SMX or whatever promoters for these events could set up all that equipment at every track.. It’s up to the track owners… The same way F1 left indianapolis because the track just wasn’t in compliance with F1 standards.. Although the sport is still growing the series should give a percentage or something to encourage track owners to modernize their facilities. This doesn’t happen over night but let’s say in the next 5yrs then any track out of compliance get dropped from the series. You phase these things in like anything else.
Ryan it’s happened twice this year with injuries the first time.
When Ryno speaks you should listen
no reason why a dash light system wouldn't work , can set up cheap with bluetooth just to flash a yellow or blue on either side of bars blue left go right.. all you need is a flagger to see it and click a button and anything within the proximity of blue tooth which can be down easily. gps is to slow for crash issues unless you go military grade lol goggle thing is the best , in your face no looking down etc
F1 would never have volunteers anywhere. If you wanna be top level like F1 they need to step up and taking themselves seriously
AI could detect down rider immediately and trigger warning lights beside face of jump. Simple existing tech.
Less backmarkers in a race less havoc,
Professional, isnt that what we have in Supercross?
Bro, did you not see the CARNAGE that happened at Pala/Fox? Guess you don't know why Hampshire was at PressDay yet didn't race 1 MX race...
100 percent need to professionally trained flaggers no nfl or no nba no professional sport has volunteer referees.We are talking about riders life’s!!
Have cameras on every dangerous jump and someone watching eatch jump and have led lights coming up to the jump that someone crashed
Why can’t riders talk on non-whoop / rhythm sections like straight aways, mechanics sections, in the air or anytime they can pull a tear off?
I think that rappers make it more interesting because you as a smarter riders has to deal with that.
Ryno isn't correct. F1 have local volunteer marshals also. I'd say that the organisation of those marshals is better than the ama have in place.
It seems the easy answer is for professional flagmen, problem solved.
I don’t see why riders can’t be in radio contact with a spotter from the team up restrict what information can be conveyed on the radio granted riders may not respond to messages but they will hear them
How a flagger can tell a rider that the crash is on the opposite side of the tracks ?
Employ former pro MXers. Give them some percs.They have experience on the track and would take the job seriously...
I'm no pro but I m sure all these guys that line up know where they stack up. I say get rid of the blue flags. The riders know what's up. Yellow flags and red cross flags should take priority. Just saying.
Lot of pros want nothing to do with radios when interviewed. The current ones on the market that actually fit in helmets have an absolute terrible range. It would work for SX range wise but not MX without development. One person doesn't have visibility on a MX track let alone have the scan capability for the entire field. A heads-up display that works with rolls offs/tear offs, and is usable in all conditions? Come on. I have flown with heads up displays for years too. There were 3 seconds in Deegan’s incident. You’re telling me within 3 seconds someone would have identified the crash and relayed to the singular person. Then it would be broadcast, received and comprehend by the rider within 3 seconds? Absolutely not. Lights that have been used are good but are still misinterpreted when used today, are missed, and are only as good as the person activating them just like a flag is only as good as the person waiving it. Would an actual human factors and effectivity study be beneficial? Sure
It's 2024 could easily solve this problem they just don't wanna spend money. But they will limit the whoops to 9 cause it doesn't cost anything.
I think this a good beginning conversation, but do not agree with a lot of it. Radio comms to the riders? Not good. Properly trained and dedicated flag people...Super good. Paid professionals? No need. Professionals? Sure. I raced in AMA and SCCA and other organizations for 36 years. Not many errors on the part of turn workers. (highly trained) We never had less than 2 at a corner. One flagger, one radio person. (Plus line of sight to the next turn) Some corners had three workers. The third directed traffic, (in more hazardous spots) to ensure that the downed rider was safe....therefore the racers were at less risk. No passing on a local yellow. Period....thus no need to speed up or jump. Violators would be docked time, if they did not give up their accidentally gained positions. EVERYONE knew where the flag stations were! Turn workers, (volunteer) got free admission/free lunch and drinks/port-o-potties/free parking and beer/wine after the event. They were treated like gold and earned it! We rarely had a problem with turn worker attendance. I worked turns prior to my time racing and after, because I had much respect for them.
A light system will get taken out eventually. Flaggers for lappers and a flagger for riders down . Every flagger should have a head set on also. It should also be the track designers job to make a flat and easy spot for flaggers to navigate. How many times have you seen a flagger fumble to get to the area of a downed rider. A group of flaggers goingvtace to race would cost a half a million bucks a year
Two stable ights, one on each side of the takeoff, as on some tracks in Italy.(Dorno)
Your opinion has been noted about light system will get taken out eventually. There are so many positives that outweigh that unlikley scenario. Caution Z is utilized in SX and MX plus in flat track for years and has yet to be taken out. AMA tested out Race Control on Friday during the WMX race. Infront Moto Racing was testing it at Ernee MXoN.
@@rockman4699 on top of lights supercross is at ground level with no natural light as the day goes on jump faces and turns facing west will be tough to see. Its a good idea but a person waiving a flag on a jump face is a better option with someone in race control yelling hey stupid get out there.
How about we get rid of an anti aquatic system? Keep the flags yeah I’m OK with that, but put actual communication between the pits and the rider, comms in the helmet… the entire thought process of well we didn’t have it in the beginning is 🐂💩they didn’t have 120 foot triples either.
Medics need to get their thumbs outta their a$$e$ too. Get guys OFF the effing track.
The world's best motocross riders are being put in the hands of heres A free ticket ,
A HOTDOG & A COKE
😳 volunteer who knows absolutely nothing about MOTOCROSS RACING
And how to protect them by knowing what flag to throw out /when to throw it out /where to throw it out as well as how redirect other riders away from crashes ! We don't need lights and all the bells and whistles ! JUST HIRE knowledgeable people who know the sport inside and out !
Another reason they might be staying with idiot non trained bozo's is that way they could/might be way less liable in case of a very bad outcome. JUST ASKING if that might be a part of why this problem has not been solved.
HOW ABOUT .FLAGERS ON BOTH SIDES OF BLIND JUMPS ,AT THE TOP SIDES OF JUMP .
What if it is a 60 foot table top? the flaggers need to be way in front of the TAKE OFF so you would need 1 at the rear & two in front & the front guys need to be willing to GET IN THE WAY of the racers to try and slow them down & direct them to the safer side of the track, if there is a safe side!!!
just bring it down from 40 to 30 riders that will solve alot, mxgp is not even 20 at times..dont need to run 40 dudes when only 10 is "good" or in the hunt if you know what i mean.
The riders don’t have to talk only listen
You guys just say things without thinking it through logistically.
Having a traveling team of flaggers sounds great to say. Until you think of what that actually involves.
Say you have 30 flaggers. That's 30 round trip plane tickets every week. That's 60 nights of hotel every week. That's 30 rental cars every week. 30 people on payroll. 30 people to deal with their personal issues and reasons for possibly missing rounds, now you're dealing with that. That's on top of what you're paying them.. and who do you think is signing up to travel every week for 12 or 17 weeks? Traveling from Friday to Sunday every single weekend.. all for what, $200? Wouldn't even pay for food and airport parking. Are you guys signing up to do that job? When you just worked your 40 hours Monday through Friday?
It's just not going to happen so it's stupid to talk about.
Improve what they have. Maybe have the flaggers wear a radio headset so when there's a crash, there's a main coordinator yelling in their ear "flagger #7 wave yellow! Right side of track!". Or something similar.
This isn't NFL or NBA, there aren't unlimited resources or unlimited money. It would be impossible to actually implement this successfully from a practical perspective. Just like when you guys said anytime someone crashes they should be black flagged, sounds great untill you actually have to implement this and make it work in the real world
U hadt to whatch your back as a flagger to
why not test a few wireless lights at jump front faces on a few key area's
why not test and develop something with the riders
USA want PRADO and all these top riders and US MX as the pinnacle
and was only split second for deegan to react if a light came on
but hay why not test a system on a few spots and not confuse with a hole new system