The Fastest (and slowest?) Charging EV We've Ever Tested! The Hummer EV Hits Over 360kW Peak
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- Kyle is back with another Hummer EV video and this time it's digging into how this thing charges.
Link to spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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0:00 - Hello & Welcome
1:36 - Testing Procedure / Background Info
9:42 - Results / Analysis
#hummer #ev #charging 
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Masterfully executed root informational extraction, analysis and summation
I doubt GM would allow it, but having Andy Oury on the podcast to explain the tech behind Ultium and what is going on with the DC charging the Hummer/ultium packs would be really really cool.
I'm surprised that this hummer only takes 170 ish kw at 50%. I'd expect a bit more out of a 240kwh pack. The Ioniq 5 has similar speed with a pack that is a third of the size.
18:00 To me, that indicates an unfinished charging profile programming. I expect it to be smoothed out over time. It took GM several years to finalize the charging profile for the Bolt EV as well, but when they did, they were able to retroactively apply that charging taper (rather than stepdown) even on older models.
That's one thing that it will only improve from here.
as always fantastic job with numbers. can't wait to see if those numbers will extend to future Optimum batteries on Hummer, or will they change (software).
Kyle, you should check out this patent by GM for the pack switching, it involves having to switch the HVAC pack usage during the charging and this may explain the dips you are seeing. US2021/0078429. The two halves can get out of balance due to one having the HVAC load during charging. So they can switch that during charging to keep the packs in balance. Your theory of the HVAC and DC converter working at 800V is likely not correct.
Exactly. GM engineers told TFL that “pack switching” was what caused those sudden dips. Additionally, multiple owners have seen that post-initial-dip low constant KW charge speed like test 1’s curve on EA chargers. It appeared to be a charger restriction, perhaps hitting thermal limits back at the charger power boxes. EVGO charging experiences have also had the initial balancing dip, but typically quickly recovered to high kW speeds.
@@keithritter9338 It is possible the charging went into 400V charging mode on that blue curve, in order to balance the packs. The GM patent mentions that potential mode for imbalance between two halves.
Yeah enjoyed this video with deep dive on Hummer's charging curve. Not getting a Hummer, personally but good advice on stopping a charge session around 65% or even lower depending on where you have to get to. I stop charging the Model Y LR around 75% when it starts to fade and just plan on stopping at the next station around 10% or so. Cheers and drive safely.
I love that you showed the complimentary session for the video. I’m sure EA was happy about that one! 😂
1:04 I think the higher energy estimates are based on people referencing the EPA documents, which include losses from charging at 240 V. So a typical 10-12% loss will result in an additional 20 to 30 kWh of energy required to charge the battery from empty to full. The actual gross capacity should be 219.5 based on the battery cell spec sheets.
I can’t wait for Kyle profile Lucid Air charging curve.
As an electrical engineer and EV owner, these power curves are interesting, but as a driver I’m much more interested in miles charged. I want to look at the miles curves to see how long it takes to go from 0-100 mi; 0-200 mi; 100-200 mi; etc.
Let’s see when it makes no sense to stay charging and move on to the next charger. Based on charging my Tesla and Lucid, it seems the minimum charging time for a long road trip is 10-60% SoC. For some EVs, it may be faster to stop at 50%, provided there are ample chargers on your route.
Great job. Would be much more interested in the lyriq since they are using the same battery on a much different scale
Lyriq too!
Chargers prices need to be uniform. People really don't want to do math to figure out if the price per KwH is better than the charger that is price per min. All gas stations' price is per gallon no matter what state you go to. EV Chargers need to do the same.
There is a second patent GM has regarding reduction of dendrites in the battery pack, and that may cause the curves to shift, based on starting SoC. Kyle, I think you should try starting some charges at 40 or 50% SoC to see what happens. US 2022/0134900. Some of your results already show this affect, looking at the curve where you started at 30%, versus starting near 0%. The figure in that patent indicates a high starting peak and then tapering after some amount of time or charge added, rather than being purely based on SoC.
Great information. It would be nice to have a 400V charge curve.
Perfect for plugging into a standard wall socket.
Very cool video Kyle. Don't forget to flush. 😏
It's all about the curves
like in my twenties ;-)
Hi, I wonder what would happen if you stop at 70% then take it back to about 65% then restart..
That dip up at 80% is not dissimilar to the E GMP car’s 80% pause/dip they take where they chill for a few minutes to collect their thoughts and reassess before climbing back up.
I just got one of the Subaru Solterra EVs. I’m still learning the chargers, can you do a video on Solterra?
Didn’t you say that there are two battery stacks? Wouldn’t each stack be at 90% SoC when the Humma is reporting 80% SoC, since it would be reporting on the aggregate SoC? Which would explain why the drop is around 60%.
You should see battery voltage and current with OBD2 dongle.
Based on the initial dips of the blue and red lines, it looks like it can only max charge for the first 23% of added charge. Why else would the dips happen at different SOC? If you shift the red line over as if you started at 0% like the blue, then they match up. Very interesting.
Wonder what the lyriq and blazer would be like compared to this, considering the hummer is basically 2 lyriq/blazer batteries stuck together. Sounds like they would be just ok, not particularly great, like the mach e and older id4
Whatever happened to the Jaguar iPace? I thought that was a formidable EV, but now no one ever talks about or reviews it. What's up with that?
They didn't make very many
That dip at 80% is probably a resting voltage check to make sure it's at what it thinks it's at. Since there's probably very little top buffer, that's important to know.
When paralleling high power devices that far apart would be thermal differences between them. This is because you can never make them to be the same. It looks like they have the dip to allow thermal equalization between the modules. Otherwise there would be hot spots meaning the one that has the highest temperature would take most of the current and could cause thermal runaway. I would charge all the way to 70-80%. According to my experience, I had seen how hot it is when putting 500Amps into 3/0 copper wire for half an hour. (Expensive wire) I don’t know how they did it but putting that much power into the system all the time shouldn’t be good and one thing for sure it would cause a lot of thermal cycling through all the connectors.
Charge the Hummer in Tennessee and see how much it costs.
EVgo just switched to per kWh pricing in most locations
I would like to see comparisons of EVs charging at max peak current compared to lesser current. Overall Teslas really don't charge much faster on a V3 versus a V2. High peak current seems like a gimmick, one that has little gains in charging times yet is going to be very hard on the grid.
Here in Europe, we get a few city cars that have impressively slow fast charging. I once spent 35 minutes charging 15kwh to make it home with a VW e-UP. Next time I take that car I'll plug it in AC, because looking at the fast charger to see it putting out 26kw isn't fun. You can also turn on the headlights while changing, so great job VW...
Apart from range and charging speed, the up is pretty great, but having to charge an hour every 160km/100mi makes it probably the least road trip-able EV with CCS.
What's the problem with allowing to turn the headlights on while changing?
@ DRLs would be fine, but the UP will happily sit there with the high beams on if you forget to turn them off. Not ideal
@@b127_1 I think this is true for like all European cars though.
@ I doubt that id3 and the like will turn on the headlights while charging when on "auto". The up genuinely doesn't seem to know that it is charging, apart from not letting you drive. It is one of the most lazy ev conversions I've ever seen. It drives great and is very efficient, so it would have sold like crazy had they given it a bit better range and charging speed. Oh well, too late now.
More than an hour from 0-80% makes the Hummer a mediocre road tripper. My Mach E does it in 43 minutes and my model 3 in 32 minutes. And I think the ionic 5 does it even faster
16:20 GM's strategy appears to not use a bottom buffer at all, which is why cars like the Bolt EV will die at 0% (technically -0.9%, but still, not much at the bottom). So the only real buffer you'll see is at the top. Based on your testing of ~212-213 kWh usable from 100% to 0% and the battery specs of ~219.5 kWh gross, I'd expect about a 6 kWh top buffer, which is only about 3%. So not a true 100% SoC, but close enough that it will increase degradation over time.
FWIW, the first generation Bolt EV appeared to have no top buffer at all, which is why I was able to pull a true 60 kWh from 100% to 0%. After the update that GM issued (in 2018?), I lost about 2 kWh of usable capacity, and until the bigger battery was released in 2019, most Bolt EV owners were reporting 58 kWh usable when the car was brand new.
hear, hear! Kyle, should take a look at what you and Bill potter have been saying in the comments here.
I really do wonder how much money ea lost on that hummer charge between demand fees and free charging😂😂😂😂😂
The V3 Superchargers have nameplate ratings of 640A at 1000V. Still blows my mind such a wimpy cable and connector can be rated that high!
Don’t know if it’s true, but I heard those units aren’t safety certified due to smaller gauge cables
@Ben's Eco Journey The inverter nameplates show those ratings but I've been in the power industry for over 40 years and I have never seen any plug and cable assembly so light and thin carry that kind of power. You could never get it to pass safety regulations in today's industrial and utility industries.
Per Tesla’s NACS release, they get the higher amps by willfully exceeding IEC temperature limits (which CCS follows) IEC is 50 deg C temp rise above ambient or 90 deg C max temp. Tesla is 105 deg C max temp, regardless of ambient. Yeah, the cables and connectors could boil water.
@Keith Ritter But the general public is going to handle them? Again what is technically feasible and what is safe are two entirely different things. But wait, that's right I'm driving a soccer-mom car with 1000hp! Tesla can get away with anything!
The Hummer EV is almost more expensive to run than the original Hummer. Not that efficient due to it weight, expensive to run using superchargers as maintaining it.
Who cares - it's still cool.
2:32 Drop drop drop! 🙈
6:00 This is a joke? 😱
I feel like we need new terminology. Calling the Hummer the fastest charging EV is akin to calling a car the fastest because it has the most horsepower. I don't even know if the Hummer is mid pack in charging time to get 200 miles of range added. Maybe the Hummer is the most powerful Charging vehicle and something that can get you 200 miles down the road in 15 minutes would be the fastest charging EV.
Honestly, this charging curve is a bit concerning for me for the future Ultium (sp?) vehicles. It would be reasonable to assume that the charging curve characteristics will be similar among all the vehicles since it’s the same battery modules, just scaled up or down. A 212kWh battery charging at 360kw is 1.7C, which isn’t that much in today’s world, yet it still can’t maintain that speed for very long. To put the charging speed in perspective, 1.7C on an 80kwh battery would be 136kw. That is acceptable but far from impressive charging speed, especially if it can only maintain it to 40% (like the Hummer). Maybe this is just an initial/cautious charging curve that they’ll improve later?
It’s also worth noting that if the Hummer is charging 360kw at 800V, that is still far less amperage than a Tesla charging at 250kw, so it really isn’t stressing the charger that much (450A on the Hummer vs about 650A on the Tesla). Plugging a Tesla into the same charger (with a CCS adapter) and having it charge around 200kw would actually be more stressing to the charger and cabling than the Hummer EV charging at 360kw. It’s the amperage that causes the primary stress (heat), not the voltage (since 800V is still not that high) or the power (since power is just volts times amps).
The Hummer isn't charging at exactly 800V, also the charging curve for Ultium isn't strictly based on SOC, it's more based on time. Patent US 2022/0134900
If you compare the hummer ev to a hummer 1, it is very good for the environment.
wouldn't the slowest be the bz4x?
Actually peak charging power is a real concern. Huge utility peaks for little overall gain. Totally negates any benefits of converting transportation to electricity. I'll argue there needs to be 150kw limits or less on all charging during peak times.
Which might have to drop much lower as the grid strains itself to the breaking point. Also not a fan of the way most battery electrics are trending to >80 kWh to make range while at the same time being very un-aerodynamic and energy hungry.
WOW the chargers work 🤐
Kyle please review patent US2021/0078429.
Even at 70 percent, it is charging at over 100 kw. How can you call it slow and ask people to stop charging at 65 percent?
Impressive? No, not at all. Yeah it can suck down a lot of juice, but the C rate and the range added per hour is poor.
Great video! Thanks.
Yeah the Hummer is a beast, it beats out my Bolt on range pretty handily. I'm just not impressed with the efficiency. I think I'd go with the car his wife got over the Hummer.(the name of the car is eluding me lol)
Audi e-tron I believe.
@@jaredbradley4957 I think it was an id.4, either an S or S pro. I remember it having lumbar massage.
i think you are sort of pro EV? but this just keeps making people realize how much they can be a pain in the ass. Like your Luxury sport sedan is charging your car sitting in freezing cold or screaming heat for 30 minutes or more - and of course not all chargers have the tops charging speeds so it really is a pain unless you commute and charge at home most of the time - then the charging time isn't very important as long as it charges in a night.
I would rather suck on a ev tailpipe then a gas one, oh wait evs have no tailpipe😮😂👍 hummer ev is at least saving our lungs while it runs compared to gas. Renewable battery vs non renewable cmon people wake up. Car emissions can cause health problems
Anyone else have no audio?
Yes
Hm weird - RUclips is still processing the video so give it a few - I released it a bit too early from upload
@@KyleConner thanks! Guess I'm not used to being that early to videos 😅
First?
so much face this episode
You might as well stop at 70% charge as far as time is concerned. What a hog.
Terrible charging curve. Super slow past 70%.
I think the Hummer EV shouldn't be allowed to charge past 70% @ public DC charging stations.
It’s funny how people talk crap. My car can do this. Like the Mach e? You’re really going to compare a Mach e charging to a hummer Ev? Hummer is 1000 hp with 212 kw battery. The Mach e is what? 480 max HP and a battery of max 91 on the “extended?” Fords batteries / evs are junk compared to most of the market. Take these lightning / Mach e out when it’s -20 and see what happens. Ford really screwed their customers over. Now they are trying to justify their purchases. The value of the early ford evs will plummet in a couple of years. Sorry. Should have waited for better built evs
The battery of that car on pure DC use is probably toast after 30000 miles. These changing curves and 360kw Peak Speed for sure kills the cells.
Its less than 2C. Its far less stress on the battery than most EV`s that are in use today. For example the Tesla Model 3 charges at 250KW at a 80kw battery, so its about 2.5times the stress on battery
Tom, respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about. If that were true GM would not warranty the Hummer EV for 8 years / 150k miles (when they're already billions in debt). Fast charging doesn't kill batteries, but extreme temperatures and high end of charge voltage do, and always over time (cycle life). Like @travelguy78 says 360kW is not stressful at all, the charge rate is 360kW / 213kWh which is just about 1.69C rate, and that's for only 10 minutes before it intelligently drops speed to manage the heat. If we saw cell temperatures way out in the upper 40ºC and climbing without charging speed dropping, then it would warrant you saying something like that.
@@Infinion Mate get your information straight on Fast Charging and Battery degradation before you throw these facts. Every EV Owner gives you a warranty, im talking that with these charing rates your battery after 2-3 years of DC usage is between 80-90% of Health.
Anybody that buys a Hummer is not concerned about the environment. Battery to big and uses too much power. GM is a joke. We give them to much attention. How many EV vehicles has GM produced in 2022? How much is GM in debt? They are a burden on the American tax payer.
What's the percentage of people who own evs buy it because of environment.
Both the 2022 Toyota Prius AWD and the 2022 Hummer EV are EPA rated for 51 mpg(e) city but not sure a Prius on 35 inch tires could maintain that rating, so probably not a fair comparison.
you can always charge at home like most people
"it's an expensive toy"
The hummer is so anti ev it’s amazing. Sure it’s cool but evs are about efficiency and being green. This is like the worst
EV or hybrid? That is the question. Hybrids self charge, while straight EV’s don’t.
Do you work for Toyota?
@@KyleConner LOL love this
Self charge? Lol
Spending a ton of money at a gas station = self charging????
EVs self charge when retarding or going down the slope.
61 minutes of charging just to get 265 miles or 80% charge sucks.... It takes about 3 minutes to fill my tank of gas from empty to full "about 20 gallons" and that gives me 380 miles of range. If electric cars can cut the charging time in half I am definitely willing to buy an EV. But right now I still think they are too slow to charge and too many bugs with electrify america and lack real world range.
While I agree with you that this car doesnt really charge very fast it must be remembered how seldom you are at a fast charger. You start with 300 miles of range every day from charging it in your driveway. Its only when you drive more than 300 miles in a day that you need to fast charge and most cars typically charge upto 80% in 20mins. So you spend less time at "the pump" than with a gasoline car.
Well, this is as he said a car that likes to be charged from 0% to 30% really.
If you only had to fill your tank once every other month, and it took 25min, and cost $10, would you do it?
@Bowie The majority of charging happens at home while you're asleep. A Model 3 costs about $40 to charge 1000 miles at home. Superchargers are used primarily for road trips over 150 miles and cost about $10 for 150 miles, and take 15min. Sorry you've been mislead, but those are the facts.