I spent 30 yrs troubleshooting various electronics before retiring and then getting into the Automotive retail business. I Can't begin to describe what a Joy it is to watch you guys hunting down issues the methodical and logical way. Way too many part swappers around today. Backyard mechanics. Not just that, they know it all and take no advice. Keep doing what you're doing guys, It's a pleasure to watch, learn and I'm sure you're helping a lot of young mechanics with these new electronic beast.
Great video!. it might be worth noting that some modern control modules are able to shut down faulty circuits in order to protect the drivers. So in this scenario it is always best to check for circuit control again, after erasing fault codes.. I think in your case, if it has had a module already then it probably doesn't have a protection feature. But it is always better to check before condeming a module.
Hi Stephen, Great Point!! We did try clearing codes and installing a known good injector to see if the PCM would come back. I forget to mention that on camera. Thanks for watching Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
THIS GUY IS A REAL SCOPE MASTER ,,, YOU CAN SEE IT THERE'S NO GUESSING HE DEFINITELY KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING . I CAN LEARN A LOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really good one there. Had a similar issue on a Malibu and it was spectacular- the driver in the PCM was fried but in the closed position so the injector was just constantly on. It was blowing raw fuel out the exhaust like a steam locomotive and it filled the garage with acrid smoke in just seconds!!
Yes indeed. Injector shorted causing the driver to fail due to no load on circuit. Good point about the Cat and I thought the same. It was hard to check because it did show a rich O2 held at 2200RPM but I wasn’t sure if that was still fuel contamination. I asked owner to drive it for a week and let me check it again but they never returned :-/
This is a great channel. My only critique here is that you should always confirm which cylinder is misfiring with a power balance test. Never rely on the code alone. Obviously you guys did that somewhere along the line. But for newer techs, never trust the computer to pick out a cylinder. Always confirm with a power balance test. Great job!
No problem, I'm glad you liked it. A Pico Scope is a big investment, but it can really pay for itself once you get the hang of it. Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
No Pico needed... a good ear can tell you if your cranking is even... The rest of the test can be done looking at live data on a scanner or using a multimeter and a test light...
Its great to see a tech using a DSO! Scan tools only get you so far, especially if you're an independent using a generic scan tool. Also, cool trick using the light bulb to test the circuit under load! DVOMs have their place but testing 5V/12V wiring is not one of them IMO. The mAmps at 9V output by a common DVOM come nowhere near the functioning amps of the circuit. I usually back probe the connector and use my own wire/alligator clips to create my own circuit, but in this cars case it would've been a waste of time with little knowledge gained. I'm definitely going to use your method in the future. Nice work on the diagnosis! We need more videos like this!
Good diagnostics job. I would like to suggest two things. 1) To reset the PCM after clearing codes to see if the #3 injector comes back. 2) Measure the resistance of the new injectors before installing them to make sure they are in specifications.. Maybe you have done, or always already do (number 2),, so just suggestions. Again, good diagnostics and thanks for making these videos. Omegaman
Thanks for the tips! and watching the video! We did try and reset the PCM using a known good injector, but forgot to mention in the video. I was actually surprised the PCM didn't comeback. Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Nice Video! Sometimes it's easier to check resistance by leaving the injector pugged in and putting one lead on the fuse and the other lead at the computer connector.
Hey, that's a great tip! Especially on ones that are under the intake or something. Thanks for the tip, we will have to show that sometime soon! Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
I'm both enlightened and frustrated by this video--you seemingly resolved the p0300 within 15mins! I have a 2000 Accord V6 (160k) with the very same onerous misfire (p0300) gremlin! (This J30A1 engine also suffers from the dreaded "Heat Soak Issue", though I don't believe the two are connected.) Two techs have thrown their hands up at the problem after firing the parts cannon into the engine bay. How'dja like to make a video featuring the diagnosis and repair of a vaunted 6th gen Accord! Excellent and informative as always. Thanks Ryan! ...and vicariously, to Mike as well.
Hey Tim, Thanks for checking out the video! 2000 Accord, what parts have been replaced? Have they tried checking the valve lash clearance? Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Hiya, Ryan! In addition to a valve lash adjustment, the following is a list of things we've ALSO done: - fuel injectors/plugs - ECU/PCM - coolant temperature sensor - O2 sensors Additionally, we've performed an air purge of the coolant, checked the fuel relay solder joints, and tested each coil, and performed a wholesale Odyssey fuel rail swap-out! This stubborn gremlin will NOT be defeated! After each laying-of-the-hands, the CEL inevitably lights, and I drop my head in abject helplessness.
fuel fuel fuel! run premium and some additives or ethanol free fuel for a few tanks if available there. probably hot weather(heat soak) and fuel boil off in the rail/s, now it could be worse because of rapid pressure drop, leaking regulator/injectors/check valve(probably part of fuel pump). the boiling points of ethanol and straight gasoline are different, now factor in the system standing pressure and bleed off rate. maintaining higher pressure keeps the boiling point higher and less vapor in the fuel rails/system. vehicles are made to run on liquid fuel that's atomized, not vaporized fuels. if it's a return-less style system, it's more critical to maintain pressure for a long period after shutdown.
@@GoTechTraining According to the HSM (11-22, Supplement) "The Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) determines timing for fuel infection of each cylinder and also detects engine speed. The PCM detects misfiring by using the CKP sensor to monitor fluctuations in the crankshaft speed. It will then set DTC's depending on how much misfiring occurs." The DTC i get is p0300 with the occasional cylinder-specific code--I have NEVER gotten a P0335 or P0336. This makes me hesitant to suspect a wonky CKP. Yet it remains a potential source of a random misfire code, according to the HSM. This part is still original.
I would agree that the injector is the original problem. Before condemning the pcm I would first erase the code and see if the circuit comes alive. Sometimes if there is a circuit code the pcm will shut that driver down to protect it, especially in newer vehicles that have current limiting devices in the driver. Resetting the code might enable the driver in the pcm to allow proper function. Worth a try.
Doesn't it seem silly that the pcm driver can't support a load equal to the fuse protecting it?? If drivers can't be made strong enough, perhaps car makers should give each injector its own smaller rated fuse. Then the problem would simply be a shorted fuel injector that blew its fuse, and the pcm lives to fight another day.
I agree 100% If the fuse isn't actually protecting the circuit, the fuse is too big or the PCM driver needs to be stronger! Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
it would have been awesome to see a voltage measurement of the bad injector while it was plugged with car was running and then not running. Great video!
I would like to mention that the node test was not needed since you had confirmed no pulse present. Though I thought you were going to check what was missing at the connector; let's say the ground and the computer was detecting an open and would not fire the injector since there was no resistance present from the injector winding. Great video!
Hey man, we actually put a different injector in the loop verifying that the PCM wasn't in protection mode. Shoulda shown it for sure. As always, thanks for watching! Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining yes, that's extra assurance. I know I couldn't fool a running board module from a ford that wanted at least 1ohm resistance for it to command the running board motor. It did not like a motor with 7ohms, it refused to actuate it, I had a 3 amp light and put it in series, had around 1.2 ohms and it commanded finally. The motor worked flawlessly when actuated manually and the amperage was pretty similar to that of the 1 ohm motor. New motor fixed it but the old motor was still good to me.
This is how it's supposed to be done when diag. I'm a Honda tech as well. Fyi if it's busy af ... then your service advisors or service manager may rush...wich will cause steps to be skipped.
Hey Chris, We did try to hook up the #3 injector circuit to a good injector to see if the PCM would come back after having the correct resistance on that injector circuit, but the PCM was not having it. Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
i'm particularly curious as to why there are injectors in the box of goodies but then one of them that's on the car is shorted? is one of the injectors in the box shorted? i feel like there is more to this story.
Hi Josh, It was determined that one of the replacement injectors (#3) was also shorted and caused the replacement PCM to fail again. I'm not sure the source of the replacement injectors. But we made sure to source quality ones for the second replacement. Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
hello. Why was there no flush on the third cylinder during the bulb test? the engine controller was in safe mode? where did you connect the 30A current clamp? The same for the mass cable? Best regards
Hello Seb, This engine controller had a bad driver I don't think it had the ability to go into a safe mode for a over amperage condition I connected the 30 amp clamp to the 15 amp injector fuse using a fused jumper wire Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Terrific video I know you disabled the injectors by pulling fuse #39 but what wire did you connect the amp clap to to determine if the injectors are pulling to much current. I probably missed it but maybe you can just tell me which wire. Thanks for sharing. Artie 👍
Hey Artie, I pulled the injector fuse to do a relative compression test. Then I installed a fused jumper back into the injector fuse slot and installed the amp clamp around the fused jumper. Then I started the vehicle and grabbed amperage from all 4 injectors and it showed that the #3 injector was not pulling any amperage due to a bad PCM driver. ~Ryan
How often are p030x misfire codes the result of a wonky crankshaft position sensor and/or torque converter lockup solenoid? When in the t'shooting process would you test either as culprits, and how would you go about doing that?
Hi Lothian, Good question! When it comes to a crank sensor causing misfire codes, it is almost always a false misfire or a misfire code with no actual misfire felt. If I see multiple misfire counts on the scan tool without feeling the misfire while driving the car I will investigate the crank sensor. This can usually be fixed with a crankshaft position relearn or pattern relearn. If the crankshaft position sensor signal is causing a misfire, it will often be flagged by the ECM when the signal drops out and the po30x code will come along with a p0335 or p0339. Then I would scope the crank signal and look for any abnormalities. TCC solenoid issues that cause misfires are rare and can be tough to diagnose, usually they cause other symptoms like stalling or a buck/jerk. The easiest way to diagnose if the TCC is a issue is to remove the TCC fuse to stop it from engaging and retest. Thanks for the Reaching out and supporting the channel! ~Ryan Wilsing
So in conclusion, the injector is bad (shorted) which fried that driver in the PCM, so both will have to be replaced. How do you get access to the injectors on this engine? Looks to be a real pain. What might the total cost of repair be? Loved the video. Good Job.
Hello, The IM608 should be able to handle the PCM immobilizer relearn, not sure if it has the capability to re-write the VIN. Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
I have a honda accord 2016 misfiring under load above 4k rpm (no problem going 6k rpm downhill). It has new spark plugs, new high pressure fuel pump and still the same problem. Codes are: P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, that's all always, it never had the P0087, P0088 or P0089.
currently working on a 2009 honda crv with the same cylinder 3 misfire. upon first inspection it seems the previous owner had discovered the issue and tried to rewire the injectors. so first thing we did was get a stock harness back in the car rewired up properly. we have done some of the same testing and found that only the 3rd injector isnt receiving signal. i havent done a resistance test although it will be my first test in the morning. if i get the same results as you that means this pcm is dead?
Hi Thomas, Thanks for the kind words! We don't currently have any shirts for sale 😢 , hopefully in the future we will have that option. Thank you for supporting our channel! ~Ryan Wilsing
Our misfire/limp mode ended up being a bad mass air flow sensor. Finally fixed after coils, spark, cylinder 3 injector and valves failed to stop the limp mode.
2010 fit sport with recent valve adjustment and forgot to connect the EGR. Drove the car a short distance and engine light came on with car in limp mode. Reconnected the EGR and now cylinder two has miss fire and not sure how to fix it. Injector connector has power. Re-check valves or something else? Any advice will help. I’m a DIY guy so still learning. Thanks
Hi sir I have a 2005 chrysler 300c 5.7 currently its blowing white smoke from tailpipe " raw fuel " and code for #1 injector circuit open I suspect it's my injector module in pcm because key on the on position on these vehicles they don't have power to injectors needs Rev activity. Also did noid test and one stays lit. Is it a reliable test to test for voltage at pcm pin ? I tested other know good injectors from pcm no voltage and #1 has 11 volts can this be a reliable test to condem the pcm inj module keeping #1 injector open ?
Hello, I would test for power at the injector that seems shorted and then unplug the ECM. This will prove the wiring isn't shorted causing the issue. ~Ryan
I think I may have the same problem too except it happens randomly so I either get it after 2 months or when it’s cold, and I replaced the plugs and coils since march It doesn’t drive rough, it gets up to speed and gets good MPG so do you think I can drive it for like a few months
Hi how come you went into checking the injector instead of the ignition coil? I just want to try to understand a tech's thought process better so I can also apply it too, thanks!
Hey, so this one did have a fuel injector circuit code, P0203, stored in the PCM which led us to check there instead of the ignition system first. ~Mike
Not sure where the "new" injectors had come from on this car. As far as swapping the injectors, issue with that is this shorted injector swapped to a different cylinder could kill the PCM driver on that circuit. Now the car runs worse because 2 injectors that don't fire. IF the customer choses not to repair it at our shop, how do we tell the customer that their car now runs worse because of a test we performed...not a fun position to be in. Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
KNOWLEDGEABLE Go Tech Ryan Wilson Tutorial great video brilliant thank you very much helpful information video From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
We suspect that the PCM was replaced before the injectors because it wasn’t pulsing the injector. Or that one injector was initially replaced and then another one failed Thanks for reaching out! ~Ryan
The ECU was not pulsing the fuel injector hence the noid light didn't light up. The ECU connects the fuel injector to ground briefly to turn it on. In this case the ECU wasn't doing that, because the ECU was damaged, hence the light didn't come on (flicker). The ECU was damaged, it appears, because the suspect fuel injector had an internal short. That caused too much current to flow through the ECU injector control circuit and damaged the semiconductor in the ECU that is responsible for switching the fuel injector.
Hey Jeremy, don't worry, i'm still here! As much as I wish I could do it all, I just can't. Ryan is here to help. I hope you are enjoying seeing someone elses face besides my ugly mug haha! Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Hi P Hill, Great question! The injector was shorted to 2 ohms, which will cause it to draw around 6 amps. Which is way too much for the PCM driver to handle, but not enough to blow the fuse which is rated at 15 amps. Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
I agree! I think the injector was shorted just enough to burn the driver out, but not dead shorted to blow the fuse or have the PCM shut the driver down.
@@GoTechTraining yes it’s running so rough! I tried replacing coils, spark plugs, Maf sensor, still nothing . Still p0300 ,p0302, p0303,p0404 still shows up ! Next I’m changing the valve cover gasket ! I see some oil on the spark plugs when I took it off maybe is doing the misfires ?
Hey man, this is Ryan. He's one of the best techs I know. He's going to be helping me out on video creation...but don't worry, i'm still here :) Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
HI Greg, Exactly what we were going for! Also to show what can happen if you stop at a failed part without finding the root cause. Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
In my case, i checked, all coils, sparks everything was ok. Injectors were recently cleaned and checked by another shop. In my scan tool i got lean fuel mixture, no DTC were set, I saw it on fuel trims. No visible vacuum leaks but I just put my hand on throttle and car didn't stall, so I went and check EGR valve, realized it was leaking air to admission, I just cancelled by covering with a piece of coke can. Yes I know I should buy a EGR valve, but in Mexico some customers prefer doing this than spend on a EGR valve, anyway the car worked great, no DTC set. I hope this its useful to you guys having trouble with this, and sorry for my bad English.
Авто/Мото
Any good mechanic is a scientist at heart.
I agree!
Thanks for watching!
~Ryan Wilsing
I spent 30 yrs troubleshooting various electronics before retiring and then getting into the Automotive retail business. I Can't begin to describe what a Joy it is to watch you guys hunting down issues the methodical and logical way. Way too many part swappers around today. Backyard mechanics. Not just that, they know it all and take no advice.
Keep doing what you're doing guys, It's a pleasure to watch, learn and I'm sure you're helping a lot of young mechanics with these new electronic beast.
Hey John,
Thank you for the kind words! It is definitely our goal to keep teaching fundamental diagnostics.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Great video!. it might be worth noting that some modern control modules are able to shut down faulty circuits in order to protect the drivers. So in this scenario it is always best to check for circuit control again, after erasing fault codes.. I think in your case, if it has had a module already then it probably doesn't have a protection feature. But it is always better to check before condeming a module.
Hi Stephen,
Great Point!!
We did try clearing codes and installing a known good injector to see if the PCM would come back. I forget to mention that on camera.
Thanks for watching
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTrainingTop job! 👍
THIS GUY IS A REAL SCOPE MASTER ,,, YOU CAN SEE IT THERE'S NO GUESSING HE DEFINITELY KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING . I CAN LEARN A LOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the kind words and checking out the video!
Ryan Wilsing
You are a great teacher, making things easy to understand. Thank You
Great video, I always enjoy the videos from Gotech library!
Thanks for watching!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Doing diagnostics the right way and locating the problem. The way it oughta be. Good one Ryan.
Hey Mike,
Thank you for watching and the kind words!
Stay tuned for the next video when we fix this car!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Really good one there. Had a similar issue on a Malibu and it was spectacular- the driver in the PCM was fried but in the closed position so the injector was just constantly on. It was blowing raw fuel out the exhaust like a steam locomotive and it filled the garage with acrid smoke in just seconds!!
Wow that will drop you MPG quickly! Hopefully the converter was salvageable.
Was the injector shorted?
Thanks for reaching out!
~Ryan
Yes indeed. Injector shorted causing the driver to fail due to no load on circuit.
Good point about the Cat and I thought the same. It was hard to check because it did show a rich O2 held at 2200RPM but I wasn’t sure if that was still fuel contamination. I asked owner to drive it for a week and let me check it again but they never returned :-/
This is a great channel. My only critique here is that you should always confirm which cylinder is misfiring with a power balance test. Never rely on the code alone. Obviously you guys did that somewhere along the line.
But for newer techs, never trust the computer to pick out a cylinder. Always confirm with a power balance test. Great job!
Hi John,
Thanks for watching! Great Tip
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Ryan . thank you for putting this video up. Im a Dyi mechanic.
This will help me tremendously.
I just need a Pico scope now.
No problem, I'm glad you liked it.
A Pico Scope is a big investment, but it can really pay for itself once you get the hang of it.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
No Pico needed... a good ear can tell you if your cranking is even...
The rest of the test can be done looking at live data on a scanner or using a multimeter and a test light...
The Micsig SATO 1004 is also one to look at. Lots of choices for tools now.
Great job my friend. I love it.
Thank You!
Thanks for supporting the GoTech channel
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Excellent diagnostics, clever use of tools, especially the quick compression test via current reading, nice.
Hey Chris,
Thanks for reaching out and supporting the channel!
~Ryan Wilsing
Its great to see a tech using a DSO! Scan tools only get you so far, especially if you're an independent using a generic scan tool.
Also, cool trick using the light bulb to test the circuit under load! DVOMs have their place but testing 5V/12V wiring is not one of them IMO. The mAmps at 9V output by a common DVOM come nowhere near the functioning amps of the circuit. I usually back probe the connector and use my own wire/alligator clips to create my own circuit, but in this cars case it would've been a waste of time with little knowledge gained. I'm definitely going to use your method in the future.
Nice work on the diagnosis! We need more videos like this!
Excellent detective work.
Thank you! In the next video we will get this thing fixed!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Good diagnostics job. I would like to suggest two things.
1) To reset the PCM after clearing codes to see if the #3 injector comes back.
2) Measure the resistance of the new injectors before installing them to make sure they are in specifications..
Maybe you have done, or always already do (number 2),, so just suggestions.
Again, good diagnostics and thanks for making these videos.
Omegaman
Thanks for the tips! and watching the video!
We did try and reset the PCM using a known good injector, but forgot to mention in the video. I was actually surprised the PCM didn't comeback.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Nice Video! Sometimes it's easier to check resistance by leaving the injector pugged in and putting one lead on the fuse and the other lead at the computer connector.
Hey, that's a great tip! Especially on ones that are under the intake or something. Thanks for the tip, we will have to show that sometime soon!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Thanks I got it from Justin at OCD Auto, It's a small but really good Chrysler channel.
Well shout out to Justin @OCD Auto. Just subbed!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
I'm both enlightened and frustrated by this video--you seemingly resolved the p0300 within 15mins! I have a 2000 Accord V6 (160k) with the very same onerous misfire (p0300) gremlin! (This J30A1 engine also suffers from the dreaded "Heat Soak Issue", though I don't believe the two are connected.) Two techs have thrown their hands up at the problem after firing the parts cannon into the engine bay. How'dja like to make a video featuring the diagnosis and repair of a vaunted 6th gen Accord! Excellent and informative as always. Thanks Ryan! ...and vicariously, to Mike as well.
Hey Tim,
Thanks for checking out the video!
2000 Accord, what parts have been replaced?
Have they tried checking the valve lash clearance?
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Hiya, Ryan!
In addition to a valve lash adjustment, the following is a list of things we've ALSO done:
- fuel injectors/plugs
- ECU/PCM
- coolant temperature sensor
- O2 sensors
Additionally, we've performed an air purge of the coolant, checked the fuel relay solder joints, and tested each coil, and performed a wholesale Odyssey fuel rail swap-out!
This stubborn gremlin will NOT be defeated! After each laying-of-the-hands, the CEL inevitably lights, and I drop my head in abject helplessness.
fuel fuel fuel! run premium and some additives or ethanol free fuel for a few tanks if available there.
probably hot weather(heat soak) and fuel boil off in the rail/s, now it could be worse because of rapid pressure drop, leaking regulator/injectors/check valve(probably part of fuel pump).
the boiling points of ethanol and straight gasoline are different, now factor in the system standing pressure and bleed off rate. maintaining higher pressure keeps the boiling point higher and less vapor in the fuel rails/system. vehicles are made to run on liquid fuel that's atomized, not vaporized fuels. if it's a return-less style system, it's more critical to maintain pressure for a long period after shutdown.
@@GoTechTraining According to the HSM (11-22, Supplement) "The Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) determines timing for fuel infection of each cylinder and also detects engine speed. The PCM detects misfiring by using the CKP sensor to monitor fluctuations in the crankshaft speed. It will then set DTC's depending on how much misfiring occurs."
The DTC i get is p0300 with the occasional cylinder-specific code--I have NEVER gotten a P0335 or P0336. This makes me hesitant to suspect a wonky CKP. Yet it remains a potential source of a random misfire code, according to the HSM. This part is still original.
Mike you look so different since Covid 😂 great video Ryan, thanks for sharing
Hahaha!
Thanks for watching!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Brilliant work!
Great work like usual
Thanks for tuning in !
Glad you liked it
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
I would agree that the injector is the original problem. Before condemning the pcm I would first erase the code and see if the circuit comes alive. Sometimes if there is a circuit code the pcm will shut that driver down to protect it, especially in newer vehicles that have current limiting devices in the driver. Resetting the code might enable the driver in the pcm to allow proper function. Worth a try.
Hi Robert,
Your %100 correct
We did try that exact thing, but I forgot to mention on camera
Thanks for watching!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Doesn't it seem silly that the pcm driver can't support a load equal to the fuse protecting it?? If drivers can't be made strong enough, perhaps car makers should give each injector its own smaller rated fuse. Then the problem would simply be a shorted fuel injector that blew its fuse, and the pcm lives to fight another day.
I agree 100%
If the fuse isn't actually protecting the circuit, the fuse is too big or the PCM driver needs to be stronger!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Worse yet, even unplugging an injector with the circuit powered-up is enough to create a voltage spike that fries the PCM!
it would have been awesome to see a voltage measurement of the bad injector while it was plugged with car was running and then not running. Great video!
HI Robert,
I agree! Thanks for watching!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Great video I like the technique of trouble shooting
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the kind words and reaching out!
Glad you enjoyed the video
~Ryan
Great job and great video
Thanks for watching Della!
~Mike
Thanks for sharing GoTech👍
Ryan where's Mike today, hope he's doing great as usual😍
Hey Salman, I'm doing great, thanks. Hope you are too! Thanks for watching
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Great to hear from you, Stay Safe Bro👍
I would like to mention that the node test was not needed since you had confirmed no pulse present. Though I thought you were going to check what was missing at the connector; let's say the ground and the computer was detecting an open and would not fire the injector since there was no resistance present from the injector winding. Great video!
Hey man, we actually put a different injector in the loop verifying that the PCM wasn't in protection mode. Shoulda shown it for sure. As always, thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining yes, that's extra assurance. I know I couldn't fool a running board module from a ford that wanted at least 1ohm resistance for it to command the running board motor. It did not like a motor with 7ohms, it refused to actuate it, I had a 3 amp light and put it in series, had around 1.2 ohms and it commanded finally. The motor worked flawlessly when actuated manually and the amperage was pretty similar to that of the 1 ohm motor. New motor fixed it but the old motor was still good to me.
Ugh man Ford power running boards....have them on my 16' F150 in Wisconsin. N E V E R again.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Yes, forgot to mention the price tag. Around $600 at the shop discounted price.
Well done!!
Thank You!
Glad You liked it!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Great Work!
Thanks for watching!
Glad you liked it!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Excellent video my friend 👍👌
Thanks for checking it out, and supporting GoTech!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
good information, thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Awesome tutorial
Hello,
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
~Ryan
Great Job
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for checking it out!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Excellent
Hey Robert,
Thanks for watching!
So good video. Thanks
Hey Abimael,
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks you for watching!
~Ryan Wilsing
It is so good to me. Have a nice day.
Thanks for watching!
~Ryan Wilsing
Great vid. I had a 2005 honda pilot that had misfire codes all cylinders... Bad pcm must have been.
Hey James,
Yeah it seems to be a weakness on some Hondas. Which is surprising because they are normally pretty solid.
~Ryan
@@GoTechTraining well it had 290,000 miles
good testing info!!!!!!
Hi Robert,
Thanks for watching and reaching out!
Glad you like the video!
~Ryan Wilsing
Nice job
Hello Aymen,
Thanks for watching!
~Ryan
What a perfect video
Thanks for watching Mike!
~Mike
This is how it's supposed to be done when diag. I'm a Honda tech as well. Fyi if it's busy af ... then your service advisors or service manager may rush...wich will cause steps to be skipped.
Great work 👏. I would have liked to see if a new injector would have fixed it. If not reinstall ome computer
Hey Chris,
We did try to hook up the #3 injector circuit to a good injector to see if the PCM would come back after having the correct resistance on that injector circuit, but the PCM was not having it.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Thanks!
Woah thanks so much Todd! Appreciate the support!
~Mike
Good Video! Would you also want to make sure there's not a pin insertion issue, corrosion, or broken pin at the PCM connector just to be 101%?
Hi Sancte,
Good point! Great things to check!
Thanks for watching!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Good video had this before
Hey Simon,
Was it on a Honda? This is my first timing seeing a Honda PCM fail from a injector that is bad.
Thanks for watching!
Ryan Wilsing
@@GoTechTraining hi it was a Honda jazz and funny enough it was the same cylinder lol I did the same steps as you. this is mentioned on Ecu testing
Hi Simon,
Wow! Same cylinder
Honda must have had a injector issue with these motors.
Ryan Wilsing
Two thumbs up!
Thanks Richard!
-Mike
Seen it It was good Download another soon
Hi Hurlburton,
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks for subscribing!
Ryan
i'm particularly curious as to why there are injectors in the box of goodies but then one of them that's on the car is shorted? is one of the injectors in the box shorted? i feel like there is more to this story.
Hi Josh,
It was determined that one of the replacement injectors (#3) was also shorted and caused the replacement PCM to fail again. I'm not sure the source of the replacement injectors. But we made sure to source quality ones for the second replacement.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
hello. Why was there no flush on the third cylinder during the bulb test? the engine controller was in safe mode? where did you connect the 30A current clamp? The same for the mass cable? Best regards
Hello Seb,
This engine controller had a bad driver
I don't think it had the ability to go into a safe mode for a over amperage condition
I connected the 30 amp clamp to the 15 amp injector fuse using a fused jumper wire
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Terrific video I know you disabled the injectors by pulling fuse #39 but what wire did you connect the amp clap to to determine if the injectors are pulling to much current. I probably missed it but maybe you can just tell me which wire. Thanks for sharing. Artie 👍
Hey Artie,
I pulled the injector fuse to do a relative compression test.
Then I installed a fused jumper back into the injector fuse slot and installed the amp clamp around the fused jumper.
Then I started the vehicle and grabbed amperage from all 4 injectors and it showed that the #3 injector was not pulling any amperage due to a bad PCM driver.
~Ryan
@@GoTechTraining thanks for the reply. I just see you install the fused jumper wire. Now it all makes sense. Thank you for the quick reply. Artie 👍
How often are p030x misfire codes the result of a wonky crankshaft position sensor and/or torque converter lockup solenoid? When in the t'shooting process would you test either as culprits, and how would you go about doing that?
Hi Lothian,
Good question!
When it comes to a crank sensor causing misfire codes, it is almost always a false misfire or a misfire code with no actual misfire felt. If I see multiple misfire counts on the scan tool without feeling the misfire while driving the car I will investigate the crank sensor. This can usually be fixed with a crankshaft position relearn or pattern relearn. If the crankshaft position sensor signal is causing a misfire, it will often be flagged by the ECM when the signal drops out and the po30x code will come along with a p0335 or p0339. Then I would scope the crank signal and look for any abnormalities.
TCC solenoid issues that cause misfires are rare and can be tough to diagnose, usually they cause other symptoms like stalling or a buck/jerk. The easiest way to diagnose if the TCC is a issue is to remove the TCC fuse to stop it from engaging and retest.
Thanks for the Reaching out and supporting the channel!
~Ryan Wilsing
So in conclusion, the injector is bad (shorted) which fried that driver in the PCM, so both will have to be replaced.
How do you get access to the injectors on this engine? Looks to be a real pain. What might the total cost of repair be?
Loved the video. Good Job.
Hi thanks for the sharing. Can the procedure be done with IM608?
Hello,
The IM608 should be able to handle the PCM immobilizer relearn, not sure if it has the capability to re-write the VIN.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Goodbye parts cannon you will not be missed!
I have a honda accord 2016 misfiring under load above 4k rpm (no problem going 6k rpm downhill). It has new spark plugs, new high pressure fuel pump and still the same problem. Codes are: P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, that's all always, it never had the P0087, P0088 or P0089.
currently working on a 2009 honda crv with the same cylinder 3 misfire. upon first inspection it seems the previous owner had discovered the issue and tried to rewire the injectors. so first thing we did was get a stock harness back in the car rewired up properly. we have done some of the same testing and found that only the 3rd injector isnt receiving signal. i havent done a resistance test although it will be my first test in the morning. if i get the same results as you that means this pcm is dead?
looking for a shirt to buy great job good eyes steady hands
Hi Thomas,
Thanks for the kind words!
We don't currently have any shirts for sale 😢 , hopefully in the future we will have that option. Thank you for supporting our channel!
~Ryan Wilsing
Our misfire/limp mode ended up being a bad mass air flow sensor. Finally fixed after coils, spark, cylinder 3 injector and valves failed to stop the limp mode.
2010 fit sport with recent valve adjustment and forgot to connect the EGR. Drove the car a short distance and engine light came on with car in limp mode. Reconnected the EGR and now cylinder two has miss fire and not sure how to fix it. Injector connector has power. Re-check valves or something else? Any advice will help. I’m a DIY guy so still learning. Thanks
Hi sir I have a 2005 chrysler 300c 5.7 currently its blowing white smoke from tailpipe " raw fuel " and code for #1 injector circuit open I suspect it's my injector module in pcm because key on the on position on these vehicles they don't have power to injectors needs Rev activity. Also did noid test and one stays lit. Is it a reliable test to test for voltage at pcm pin ? I tested other know good injectors from pcm no voltage and #1 has 11 volts can this be a reliable test to condem the pcm inj module keeping #1 injector open ?
Hello,
I would test for power at the injector that seems shorted and then unplug the ECM. This will prove the wiring isn't shorted causing the issue.
~Ryan
I think I may have the same problem too except it happens randomly so I either get it after 2 months or when it’s cold, and I replaced the plugs and coils since march
It doesn’t drive rough, it gets up to speed and gets good MPG so do you think I can drive it for like a few months
ALSO is there like a part number for the PCM as I can only find used ones (unless it’s better)
Are you getting an engine misfire code?
This car was fixed with a used PCM, worked great!
~Ryan
@@GoTechTraining yea cylinder 3 and 4 sometimes it goes off unpredictably so it either comes back a few months
@@GoTechTrainingI found ones under the ecu name does it count
If injector 3 shorted ,why not have ground signal from pcm when you put test lamp?
HI Ziko,
Thanks for the question!
The shorted injector burned up the PCM driver and caused the PCM to fail also
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Hi how come you went into checking the injector instead of the ignition coil? I just want to try to understand a tech's thought process better so I can also apply it too,
thanks!
Hey, so this one did have a fuel injector circuit code, P0203, stored in the PCM which led us to check there instead of the ignition system first.
~Mike
@@GoTechTraining ohhh ok thank you
No problem, thanks for reaching out!
Hmmm I thought it already had a new set of injectors installed?
Yes, That also confused us.
It was determined that the shop got a bad new injector!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Honda had quite a few injector issues on those cars, probably got bad injectors from the junkyard?
It’s not hard to switch a couple of injectors and see if the miss goes with it.
Not sure where the "new" injectors had come from on this car. As far as swapping the injectors, issue with that is this shorted injector swapped to a different cylinder could kill the PCM driver on that circuit. Now the car runs worse because 2 injectors that don't fire. IF the customer choses not to repair it at our shop, how do we tell the customer that their car now runs worse because of a test we performed...not a fun position to be in.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Seems to me these circuits should be current limited. Wonder why not? Bad to take out a PCM for a bad sensing or commanded device.
Hey James, I completely agree that it should be. For whatever reason, this is not. Many cars it is though.
~Mike
Hey brother where are y'all located at I might have to bring my car to you. I'm having very similar of the same problem 08 Accord
We are located in Wisconsin
~Ryan
that one had a parts "cargo carrier" thrown at it. 🤪
Hahahaha, Yeah it was quite the pile of parts that came with it!
~Ryan Wilsing
KNOWLEDGEABLE Go Tech Ryan Wilson
Tutorial great video brilliant thank you very much helpful information video
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
HI Nick,
Thanks for the kind words! Glad you liked it!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
0:33 how can the fuel injector be bad again and blew out the second PCM if they already replaced injectors
We suspect that the PCM was replaced before the injectors because it wasn’t pulsing the injector. Or that one injector was initially replaced and then another one failed
Thanks for reaching out!
~Ryan
I am a bit confused that noid light on #3 did not light up when injector is disconnected.
The ECU was not pulsing the fuel injector hence the noid light didn't light up. The ECU connects the fuel injector to ground briefly to turn it on. In this case the ECU wasn't doing that, because the ECU was damaged, hence the light didn't come on (flicker). The ECU was damaged, it appears, because the suspect fuel injector had an internal short. That caused too much current to flow through the ECU injector control circuit and damaged the semiconductor in the ECU that is responsible for switching the fuel injector.
Uh oh Mike, what happened to you now? Where did you go man?
Hey Jeremy, don't worry, i'm still here! As much as I wish I could do it all, I just can't. Ryan is here to help. I hope you are enjoying seeing someone elses face besides my ugly mug haha!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Why did the injector fuse not do it job, if the injector failed and fused
Hi P Hill,
Great question!
The injector was shorted to 2 ohms, which will cause it to draw around 6 amps. Which is way too much for the PCM driver to handle, but not enough to blow the fuse which is rated at 15 amps.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
what if the 0302 come and go ?
That’s weird, usually Honda PCMs don’t fail often.
I agree! I think the injector was shorted just enough to burn the driver out, but not dead shorted to blow the fuse or have the PCM shut the driver down.
2001 honda civie eu newhead gasket and the car a misfire what cause that
Hello,
There can be many things that cause an engine misfire.
Are there any other codes set?
~Ryan
Engine check light on
so that honda was having a fit??? lol
Hahaha! Yes it definitely was!
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Hefty bill for the customer huh😅
Hi Philly,
Not sure the total cost, but guessing it wasn't cheap.
Thanks for watching
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Great job where is make?
Hey Oscar,
Don't worry Mike is still around!
Thanks for watching!
i need u to fix my car lol i have misfires in cylinders 2,3, and 4 lols..
That car must be running rough!
@@GoTechTraining yes it’s running so rough! I tried replacing coils, spark plugs, Maf sensor, still nothing . Still p0300 ,p0302, p0303,p0404 still shows up ! Next I’m changing the valve cover gasket ! I see some oil on the spark plugs when I took it off maybe is doing the misfires ?
Who is the guy doing this video?
Hey man, this is Ryan. He's one of the best techs I know. He's going to be helping me out on video creation...but don't worry, i'm still here :)
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
They did a video awhile back introducing Ryan.
A very basic diag!
HI Greg,
Exactly what we were going for!
Also to show what can happen if you stop at a failed part without finding the root cause.
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
How to fix a honda, throw the engine away and put a Vortec 4300 in
Hahaha, That Honda Fit would be a beast with a 4.3 Liter
Ryan Wilsing, Technical Instructor
Junk motor
In my case, i checked, all coils, sparks everything was ok.
Injectors were recently cleaned and checked by another shop.
In my scan tool i got lean fuel mixture, no DTC were set, I saw it on fuel trims.
No visible vacuum leaks but I just put my hand on throttle and car didn't stall, so I went and check EGR valve, realized it was leaking air to admission, I just cancelled by covering with a piece of coke can.
Yes I know I should buy a EGR valve, but in Mexico some customers prefer doing this than spend on a EGR valve, anyway the car worked great, no DTC set.
I hope this its useful to you guys having trouble with this, and sorry for my bad English.