@@sgumglm Still a friendship, it’s maturing and having responsibilities that drove them away really, like most childhood friendships. Rootspring and ShadowsSight are also a pretty good friendship, but they don’t converse much
@@ravem410 wasnt the whole point of the comment about male and female friendships not turning into heteronormative sludge? i dont see how rootspring and shadowsight's friendship is related. conversely, i would make the counterpoint of rootspring and bristlefrost also not being allowed to just be friends, even though bris clearly isnt interested in him for a _while_ until the authors realize they have to be in love or smthn
When I first got into Warriors, I figured the Thunderclan apprentices (Dustpaw, Sandpaw, Greypaw, Ravenpaw) were taken in or recruited from outside the clan as stray/feral kittens, since Bluestar had mentioned a shortage of warriors. And the discrimination against Rusty was that he was a housepet who hadn't experienced the wild life. It's a personal explanation that would answer why we don't know who's related in the first arc--we didn't need to. It was all fresh blood.
I thought the same about Swiftpaw. I thought for the longest time that he was a kit on his own taken in by ThunderClan and nursed by Goldenflower as she was already pregnant with Bramble and Tawny and producing milk at the time.
I had assumed similar. Or just that parents weren't encouraged to get attached to their kittens after they were weaned, because life in the wild is rough or something.
It was implied Onestar and Whitetail were mates in a book. I don't know which one, but Dovewing(paw at the time?Not sure.) Was listening in on Windclan using her powers and a cat asks after Whitewing and a cat replies she is 'sharing Onestar's den tonight'. It is not mentioned again.
@@ziradraws9029 haha, well yeah. They are half-siblings, although Darktail would be probably around the age of Firestar. Onestar had said that he was a young warrior when he has the romance with Smoke, which means it must have been before he met Firestar, as he was actually not a young warrior then. I’d say Darktail was born probably not long before Brokenstar became leader. It would also explain his acceptance of kittypets, because most of windclan was only nice to him because they thought Firestar was a clan-born warrior (besides Tallstar, he knew he was a kittypet)
@@ravem410 didn’t expect you to awnser that fast. Even though Onestars confession confirmed it I still refuse to believe that Ashfoot is Onestar’s sister. Morningflower can be his sister though, I don’t care about that.
I just want to say that Redtail's Dept did give a in-universe confirmation that Ryestalk was indeed the mother of Mudclaw and a second kit. Winds of Change also went on to mention that Mudclaw and Tornear were littermates. Wrenflight is shown as Onestar's mother in Tallstar's Revenge and Eaglekit was from SOTC as Ashfoot's son when WC was being driven out.
My gosh, there is a lot of dead kits… I kind of wish these characters were canon. It would make the series and the Clans feel more dangerous, like it’s talked up to be. The Clans are always talking about how the kits are gonna die but seriously, when was the last time a kit died? Flickerkit? Does he even count?
There was Flickerkit, then Dandelionkit and Juniperkit in Thunderclan, but if we count other clans, that also includes Snipkit of Skyclan and Bluebellkit and Dewkit of Shadowclan. The latest mentioned dead kits that start getting into the "old" category are Breezepelt's dead siblings. And the only apprentices that've died lately are Seedpaw and Molepaw.
I heard that someone called Su Susan went to "fill the cracks of her favourite series with her headcanons" when it came to untold kits. Vicky did improve, which probably gave Su the wrong impression that she was considered an writer/editor, but it got messy when SpottedLeaf's Heart came out, with people blaming her for it. Vicky "threw her under the bus" (unsure about that) and Su deactivated her Facebook.
Honestly I don't know who the great StarClan decided that Blackclaw was Mistyfoot's mate. Like, he talks sh_ behind her back in Twilight, calls her out in The Fourth Apprentice, is one of the recognizable cats under the bonehill, so most likely he was sitting somewhere close to the events, which could speak of his position... and suddenly love, kittens, awww. Unless she left him and then he was getting revenge, you know, Ashfur 1.0.
Mistyfoot had her kits in the beginning of the first arc, so it's possible they were mates and after her parentage was revealed, he rejected her. Blackclaw did always seem pretty aggressive and prejudiced even from the start; Mistyfoot could have done so much better.
@@tiffanychan1945 Yeah, I do not in any way mean that they remained those mates. I was always thinking about a possibility that they broke up, though I rather believed that maybe she'd be the one to break up with him first, because he didn't fit her, he obviously couldn't make her happy for a longer period of time with his character, but your option is also very good. I just don't know why Erins said they just were mates and wouldn't confirm that he/she left, because this is obviously strange and a plot hole. And also yeah, Blackclaw is... you know.
This is why, although taking note of fan theories/ideas can be useful and insightful, the authors just...shouldn't, for the most part. They should know their world and their characters and should've taken notes of the family tree along the way as they wrote each book. Or at least, that's what I would do. (Also the fact they really need to discuss things as a team more often because yeesh) And taking fan-said things and putting them on information sources that most fans can and will see as canon is...a little bit favouring. Almost as if they saw these ideas and went "well, sure, that looks like it checks out" and just slapped it down as "canon". As much of a fan I am of Warriors and have been since I was a kid, the older I got the more I wonder how on earth these managed to get published...and so many, too (some things are purely mistakes by editors, granted, but you get my point).
i stg they could add a lgbtq relationship if they wanted to, the editors barely proofread these mfs with how many times a cat has a different name, different eye color, etc.
@@icy2292 They do have LGBT+ relationships but only a few and they're not directly stated within the books themselves which is mainly due to the fact they wouldn't be published in certain countries at the time of that particular book's publication date originally, back when gay marriage wasn't as legal as it is today. However, there have been a number of times where the authors have confirmed couples such as Barley/Ravenpaw and Tallstar/Jake - they even confirmed Rowanstar to be trans now. Also, editors don't just proofread, they're allowed to make their own suggestions too (famously why Rosepetal and Foxleap never became a couple despite the evidence because an editor said they were too closely related, and I agree that that's a bullshit reason considering the way these cats are supposed to only breed within their own group). The publishing process can often really mess up a book, especially when it's a series and if a series is as popular as something like Warriors is then I suppose most of the editors just assume the book will be great anyway. If it's gonna get them a huge chunk of money from people's pockets regardless then it's no real fuss to them :') (That being said, whoever works with the Bravelands team really has their shit together because those books are incredible and so much better than Warriors despite being under the same penname)
@Kelsey It kinda started as a bit of a joke because they kept switching his gender by accident so people started saying he's trans lol The only "confirmation" I know of is apparently for Pride Month one year they put it on the website. It's not author tomfoolery or anything like JK Rowling does, it was just a bit of harmless fandom fun and the authors decided to acknowledge it a little bit and apparently confirm it as canon
Also part of Sharpclaw's family, he was mates with Cherrytail and they had Hawkwing (This was confirmed in Hawkwing's Journey). Cherrytail's littermate is Sparrowpelt and thus for is Pebbleshine's father, who is mate of Hawkwing. Cousins. I already know there is a lot of inbreeding in Warrior Cats but it still freaks me out.
@ravem actually I figured it’s first cousins once removed. Onestar is Heathertail’s father and Ashfoot is Crowfeather’s mother, making Crow and Heather first cousins. Breezepelt is Crowfeather’s son. So, her cousin’s kid. And cousin’s kid(or parent’s cousin) is first cousin once removed
Well, you didn’t exactly get EVERYTHING right. You forgot how Dewnose was mentioned to be Sorrelstripe’s mate even though there was no evidence suggesting that in the books. There was also no reason TO make them mates in the first place considering ThunderClan is already inbreed enough. They could have just left Sorrelstripe’s kits fatherless and no one would have cared.
@@Sunnyfall Yeah! Understandable! I haven’t even looked at the Family Tree myself because I don’t think it’s available on mobile, and that’s what I use most lol
They should honestly make Stormcloud be mates with someone in ThunderClan. He wasn't born there, and StarClan knows we don't need more inbreeding. More diverse genes, I am begging you!
@@sindrevangenrobberstad2889 I think pairing Stormcloud up with Cherryfall would be a good idea to promote more genetic diversity. Both of Berrynose’s parents come from the horse place so he’s not related to any clan cats except his mom and siblings. There’s a different story for Poppyfrost, but Cherryfall is not that much related to everyone else.
@@Cloverrfrostt Welp, I just found my new background character ship. Stormcloud x Cherryfall for the win! Joining together to diversify the gene pool and hopefully being cute in the process!
Actually, I remember from the Secrets of the Clans book, it briefly notes an "Eaglekit" as Ashfoot's son, in the section where Brokenstar drives WindClan out.
You say "the fan" a lot and I'm wondering is there literally 1 singular fan that made up so many headcanons that became canon? why was it only their headcanons that got confirmed? what's the whole story behind that??? is there a story behind that? It's interesting to see so many cats, which are essentially fan characters get put into the canon line up and have them all come from one person.
It is mostly one particular fan. I chose not to put their name or story in this video because they've gotten a lot of flack since those posts were made, and I don't feel right digging it back up when they're long since gone.
I distinctly remember seeing a post from one of the Erins (can't remember which one!) saying that the fan in question was a "super fan" and that they were allowed to "reveal" these types of seemingly-inconsequential tidbits of lore. I'm not sure if there was ever an explanation as to why that person got that kind of special treatment tbh.
the comment about wishkit and hopekit not being canon isn't true it's in yellowfang's secret she names the other two kits along with brokenkit in the tree hollow, unless im crazy but im fairly certain i remember her naming them wishkit and hopekit because she was scared and more or less naming them like that to give herself hope.
Just double-checked. The names Wishkit and Hopekit never appear in Yellowfang's Secret. She only ever refers to the two she-cats as her other kits or the two dead kits. Brokenkit is also not named in the tree hollow. She only decides on a name when she places him at Lizardstripe's paws.
wait wishkit and hopekit were never mentioned in yellowfangs secret? i swear she named them that maybe not in the hollow but i swear i remember it? i might be high man idk :Worried:
A new retcon was made just recently concerning parentage, labeling Dewnose as having sired Sorrelstripe's kits Myrtlepaw and Baypaw. From the Warriors family tree instead of the actual books.
I’ve simply opted to go off of what’s talked about in the series books rather than super editions, novellas and the like. If cats werent related or mentioned to be related in the first couple of series, they’re not moving forward. Reducing the inbreeding within the clans
I’m pretty sure Hopekit and Wishkit are existing characters though? They didn’t really have an impact in the series, since they pretty much died at birth, but they were Yellowfang’s kits. They were the only 2 she-cats that were born from Yellowfang, but they were too weak to survive, and before they died, she named them Hopekit and Wishkit. You can find this info in her special edition “Yellowfang’s Secret”. It’s something that is shortly seen in the story, where the compares the 2 females to the one male, Brokenkit, who later becomes Brokenstar, because she believed he looked so fit and yet so sinister for his age.
I agree, most of the old stuff is not canon to me. But I think Onestar being Heathertail's father is confirmed in Crowfeather's Trial. I don't think her mother is confirmed, however.
As stated by another comment, While dovepaw is listening into Windclan, it’s mentioned that Whiletail was “Sharing Onestar’s den tonight” Though this was long after Heathertail was born, and it isn’t brought up again
At least they have a proper family tree now, but also damn so many cats are direct cousins and dating. I'm glad Graystripe's Vow didn't succeed in setting up Flipclaw and Flywhisker, she's his aunt and it would have just made the problem worse.
Once you look up the Hapsburg tree and King Tut’s family tree, you’ll find out the inbreeding in Warriors is tame in comparison Still weird but expected.
Nice video! I wasn't really into the idea of searching the family tree myself (mostly because of zooming problems) so that really helped! Oh, and Blackclaw was shown as Mistystar's mate on Leopardstar's Honor, but I'm not sure if he was on hte family tree before.
I don’t think heathertail *is* mentioned in the book as Onestars daughter, but whitetail did share a den with Onestar, and as a leader, that meaning they’re mates.
@@Spectorwing yeah, it’s been a while for me to, but if I’m not wrong (I totally could be) Crowfeather mentions (not necessarily out loud) that Heathertail is Onestar’s daughter. Which makes sense seeing as he would have the apprentice-mentor bond with her.
Anyone else hate how Blackclaw was established to be Mistystar’s mate? He spends the entire series opposing her, even going so far as to support Hawkfrost in his coup against her for RiverClan deputyship in the 2nd arc. Seems like a terrible choice for a mate to me.
Rather late to the party, but I recently reread TPB and caught the "non-existent" kits. Since TPB didn't give kittens much attention, random kits were made up on the spot. Lynxkit randomly appeared in Into the Wild chapter 11, noting Firepaw as a good hunter. There's also a black kitten in the same scene who never gets mentioned again, and who (likely) *isn't Swiftkit* since there's no mention of white (and the fluffy gray kitten in that scene could be Cinderkit, as no gender was revealed). There's a tabby tom kitten mentioned in chapter 9 who pisses off Yellowfang and reappears in chapter 11, with a gray and white tom kitten playing alongside him. Mistlekit appears in Fire and Ice in chapter 15 being treated by Yellowfang, but she's never named. And Ashfur and Ferncloud's siblings were much like Mistlekit: you saw Brindleface prancing around with her *four* kittens, but they were never named, as even Ashpaw and Fernpaw were named.
It really sucks that you can’t trust the wiki (sometimes), you can’t trust the family tree, and you can’t trust the deleted warriors app. Sometimes, even the books go back on things they’ve said! Honestly, there’s no *REAL* source of information.
I mean, it's not weird at all to me that the clans are so inbred. Only recently did they even start to consider allowing outsiders in, and for the most part the only ones who care to are ThunderClan and SkyClan. So for generations, the Clans have been inbreeding simply because there was no new blood in the Clans anyway. Might also explain why the Tribe is so ungodly useless. They've gotta be extremely inbred because there aren't even other allies around to inbreed with. Stormfur is probably the first outsider to join them in ever.
I can see why they would just add a name to some kits that die at birth or vary soon afterwards being maybe a bit nicer than having lots of unamed dead kits filling up a number of spaces. Might look a bit bad but that's also what happens in nature.
morningflower and cloudrunner as mates honestly bothers me so much... like i generally give warriors a lot more leeway when it comes to age gaps so long as they're both warriors when they get together and they don't interact much before they both have their names, but morningflower's mate being a senior warrior when her MOM was born is is super uncomfortable. idk maybe it's just because morningflower is one of my favorite background cats but i think she deserves better than a tom who would've been elder age by the time she was a warrior.
The family tree and the biologically unrealistic looking cats have always frustrated me, idk why. At least they are trying to get the family mix-ups straighten out.
Cat genes are really, really weird. From what I've gathered, kittens might end up looking nothing like their parents, due to weird genes and stuff. Another weird thing that messes with cat genes is sometimes litters can have more than one father (the books avoid this for obvious reasons, but it's still interesting).
True, but typically cats( at least toms) will look like some version of their moms, but that would mean no tigerclaw clones, and that's a no no for the Erin's lol.
@@goldenwillow3002 Not really. When you look at cat genes and why they behave the way they do, they do actually make a lot of sense, and kits usually look somewhat like their parents.
Am I the only 1 who believes that the family tree, including the author's word, is ONLY canon if it doesn't contradict the books? This includes character contradictions, like when someone *claimed* that Whitestorm was Fern & Ash's father. (I don't accept that it's canon.)
Writing a Redtail survives AU currently and had to refer back to this video before proceeding to go ahead and make it true in MY storyline that He and BrindleFace had Sandstorm a bit too early on in their relationship before realizing they weren't true soulmates and broke off the relationship before she was born. Still great parents and have a very happy growing family with WhiteStorm involved as well but Yaknow I wanted some more dynamics for my man Redtail other than his sister.
Um, I don't want to be rude, but I think in the last chapter of Bluestar's prophecy, it's mentioned/hinted that Dustpaw is Ravenpaw's littermate. Then again, I might be mistaken
Dustpaw did try to play with Ravenpaw in the last chapter (causing him to get startled) but he also played with Graypaw and Sandpaw and nothing is mentioned of any familial connections between any of them. If you come in believing they are brothers, you could see that moment as Dustpaw trying to reach out to his brother, but it certainly doesn't have to be that way.
So Dustpelt being related to Brindleface and becoming mates with Ferncloud is canon? Cause uhh Dustpelt and Brindleface are siblings in the family tree and well, Ferncloud is Brindleface's kit still even if her father wasn't Whitestorm...
Dustpelt being in any way related to that family isn't canon. I highlighted Ravenpaw's siblinghood specifically because it's a popularly mentioned one, but he isn't siblings with any of those cats. The only reason he's said to be siblings with them is because his parents were decided (out of the books,) to be Robinwing and Fuzzypelt, and Brindleface *is* confirmed to be their daughter in the books, Bluestar's Prophecy to be specific. Taking just what is in the books, Dustpelt's only family is his mate and the kits they have. He didn't have any family before that.
At 8:52, I genuinely thought you were going to say "information pulled from the Warriors ass". I mean, in context to what's *actually* written in the books, you can't exactly say I'm wrong...
you have such a nice voice. i am sorry if that is creepy but your voice is so soft on my ears and not AAAHH IM HERE LISTEN TO ME CAN YOU HEAR ME. its so clear and understandable ☺️
I can't believe that no one's realized that squirrel flight an ashfur are related(kinda).So for those that don't know sandstorms mom was brindle face and her father was said to be red tail but now is not but ashfurs parents where whitstorm and BRINDLE FACE an sand storm is mates with firestar there kits being squirrel flight an leaf pool making ashfur her half uncle! I know crazy! An ashfur wanted to be mates with her -
Actually Sandstorm has no canonical parents. Author statements out of the books retroactively gave her those two several years ago but that was later decanonized and at this point even the Website Family Tree and the Warriors Wiki don't list her as having parents at all, unsurprising because nothing in the books has ever even hinted at her having parents or said who they may be.
Yo, while I was looking at the family tree, I was looking at the black and white cats and I thought of Swift, Paw, and then I thought of Taylor Swift is Swift paw apaw a singer😂!!??
@@crewmatewhite4532 Squirrelflight's mother is Sandstorm, who's father is Redtail, who's sister is Leopardfoot, who's son is Tigerstar, who's son is Brambleclaw. Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw share a pair of great grandparents, who would be Adderfang and Swiftbreeze. I am aware that in the video they say that Redtail is not but it is briefly mentioned in book one I believe.
...i still think the fact that Graystripes mother and father are brother and sister is so fucking funny and the fact that the wrigthers tried to cover that up XD im not gonna let that go, the clans are all ready inbreed enogh is not something new anyways 🤣
how much of this is misinformation and how much is just not confirmed in-universe? it's almost impossible to tell unless there's some other form of information going against it, especially with how much thought the authors themselves put into it
I'm just gonna point out... There's a certain distance between relatives that is generally considered to be okay for procreation. Most places in the modern era use second cousins as the point where relations are distant enough, in part because it's nearly impossible to keep track of relationships beyond first cousins, and also because the risk becomes negligible at that point. Case in point- Whilst everyone knows that Ivypool and Fernsong are related through Firestar's family, they don't see that they're actually closer related through Brightheart and Brackenfur, with both confirmed to have the same mother! The only reason we think of them as related through Firestar is because more attention get's paid to Firestar's family!
Bluestar family tree Spoiller warning! Rooktail+Daisytoe= Moonflower and Goosefeather Moonflower+Stormtail=Bluestar and Snowfur Snowfur+Thistleclaw=Whitestorm Rainflower+Shellheart= Crookedstar and Oakheart Bluestar+ Oakheart=Mistystar, Stonefur and Mosskit Whitestorm+Brindleface=Fercloud, Ashfur, Tulipkit and Elderkit Mistystar+Blackclaw= Reedwhisker, Pikepaw , Primerosepaw and Perckit Whitestorm+Willowpelt=Sorreltail, Sookfur and Rainwhisker Sorreltail+Brackenfur= Poppyfrost, Honeyfern, Cinderheart, Lilyheart, Seedpaw and Molekit Poppyfrost+Berrynose= Cherrypaw and Molepaw Lilyheart+Snowbush= Larksong, Honeyfur and Leafshade Cinderheart+Lionblaze=Hollytuft, Sorrelstripe and Fernsong Family tree of Firestar Spoiler warning! Crystal+Mocha= Jake, Ferris and Whiskers Jake+Quince= Scourge, Socks and Ruby Jake+Nutmeg= Firestar, Princess, Filou, Tommy and Luna Princess+Oliver= Cloudtail, Zack, Taylor, Livy and Nami Firestar+Sandstorm=Squirrelflight and Leafpool Cloudtail+Brightheart= Whitewing, Snowbush, Dewnose and Ambermoon Leafpool+Crowfeather=Lionblaze, Jayfeather and Hollyleaf Squirrelflight+Bramblestar= Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Juniperkit and Dandelionkit Snowbush+Lilyheart=Larksong, Honeyfur and Leafshade Whitewing+ Birchfall= Dovewing and Ivypool Lionblaze+ Cinderheart= Hollytuft, Sorrekstripe and Fernsong Sparkpelt+Larksong=Finchlight, Nightheart and Flickerkit
Honestly I feel like it's only going to be a matter of time before someone rants about my 4 Warrior Cats OC's Colossus, Alfred, Ace, and Crovan, which I made all 4 of them to be Scourge's siblings
@@mysticalkat6717 erin confirmed that holly leaf and fallen leaves loved eachother, they mentioned if they ever met in *starclan they would become MATES*
@@explodingmicrowave.4816 there was barely even a hint of a romance in canon and there have been so many contradictions by the authors that their word is not a reliable source
![Tigerstar's (Genetically Realistic) Family Tree [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MhEPtkqizfM/mqdefault.jpg)
seeing hollyleaf and fallen leaves being listed as mates made me turn into a rabid dog. FRIENDSHIPS? BETWEEN A LAD AND A LASSIE? EXIST??? PLEASE???
Sandstorm and Dustpelt?
@@ravem410 they kinda disappeared after the first series
@@sgumglm Still a friendship, it’s maturing and having responsibilities that drove them away really, like most childhood friendships. Rootspring and ShadowsSight are also a pretty good friendship, but they don’t converse much
@@ravem410 wasnt the whole point of the comment about male and female friendships not turning into heteronormative sludge? i dont see how rootspring and shadowsight's friendship is related. conversely, i would make the counterpoint of rootspring and bristlefrost also not being allowed to just be friends, even though bris clearly isnt interested in him for a _while_ until the authors realize they have to be in love or smthn
isn't hollyleaf like 500 years younger than fallen leaves??????? hasn't fallen leaves been in those caves for like ever?????
We will never ever forget the Erins forgot that Patchpelt was Willowpelt's sister but WAS also Graystripe's father-
When I first got into Warriors, I figured the Thunderclan apprentices (Dustpaw, Sandpaw, Greypaw, Ravenpaw) were taken in or recruited from outside the clan as stray/feral kittens, since Bluestar had mentioned a shortage of warriors. And the discrimination against Rusty was that he was a housepet who hadn't experienced the wild life.
It's a personal explanation that would answer why we don't know who's related in the first arc--we didn't need to. It was all fresh blood.
I thought the same about Swiftpaw. I thought for the longest time that he was a kit on his own taken in by ThunderClan and nursed by Goldenflower as she was already pregnant with Bramble and Tawny and producing milk at the time.
I had assumed similar. Or just that parents weren't encouraged to get attached to their kittens after they were weaned, because life in the wild is rough or something.
It was implied Onestar and Whitetail were mates in a book. I don't know which one, but Dovewing(paw at the time?Not sure.) Was listening in on Windclan using her powers and a cat asks after Whitewing and a cat replies she is 'sharing Onestar's den tonight'. It is not mentioned again.
Yes, I remember this too!
Ok but..... Isnt heathertail his daughter?
@@ziradraws9029 yes, she is supposedly the daughter of Whitetail and Onestar
@@sagestarling3226 so dose that mean dark tail and heather tail were half siblings? If so my head cannon has gone out the window.
@@ziradraws9029 haha, well yeah. They are half-siblings, although Darktail would be probably around the age of Firestar. Onestar had said that he was a young warrior when he has the romance with Smoke, which means it must have been before he met Firestar, as he was actually not a young warrior then. I’d say Darktail was born probably not long before Brokenstar became leader. It would also explain his acceptance of kittypets, because most of windclan was only nice to him because they thought Firestar was a clan-born warrior (besides Tallstar, he knew he was a kittypet)
Hopekit and Wishkit are canon as of Yellowfang’s Secret.
Onestar is canon as Heathertail’s dad as of Crowfeather’s Trial.
Which makes Heathertail and Breezefelt 1st cousins
@@ravem410depending on if you believe Ashfoot is Onestars sister since that’s also a retcon*
@@Third7Plays True, I’m just going off what the family tree said at the time of my message
@@ravem410 didn’t expect you to awnser that fast. Even though Onestars confession confirmed it I still refuse to believe that Ashfoot is Onestar’s sister. Morningflower can be his sister though, I don’t care about that.
I just want to say that Redtail's Dept did give a in-universe confirmation that Ryestalk was indeed the mother of
Mudclaw and a second kit. Winds of Change also went on to mention that Mudclaw and Tornear were littermates.
Wrenflight is shown as Onestar's mother in Tallstar's Revenge and Eaglekit was from SOTC as Ashfoot's son when WC was being driven out.
And in tallstar's revenge ryestalk and shrewclaw are mates and mud and torn's parents.
My gosh, there is a lot of dead kits…
I kind of wish these characters were canon. It would make the series and the Clans feel more dangerous, like it’s talked up to be. The Clans are always talking about how the kits are gonna die but seriously, when was the last time a kit died? Flickerkit? Does he even count?
There was Flickerkit, then Dandelionkit and Juniperkit in Thunderclan, but if we count other clans, that also includes Snipkit of Skyclan and Bluebellkit and Dewkit of Shadowclan. The latest mentioned dead kits that start getting into the "old" category are Breezepelt's dead siblings. And the only apprentices that've died lately are Seedpaw and Molepaw.
I heard that someone called Su Susan went to "fill the cracks of her favourite series with her headcanons" when it came to untold kits. Vicky did improve, which probably gave Su the wrong impression that she was considered an writer/editor, but it got messy when SpottedLeaf's Heart came out, with people blaming her for it. Vicky "threw her under the bus" (unsure about that) and Su deactivated her Facebook.
They got right that Frostfur is Dustpelt's sibling but left out her littermate according to Bluestar's Prophecy: Brindleface.
Honestly I don't know who the great StarClan decided that Blackclaw was Mistyfoot's mate. Like, he talks sh_ behind her back in Twilight, calls her out in The Fourth Apprentice, is one of the recognizable cats under the bonehill, so most likely he was sitting somewhere close to the events, which could speak of his position... and suddenly love, kittens, awww. Unless she left him and then he was getting revenge, you know, Ashfur 1.0.
Mistyfoot had her kits in the beginning of the first arc, so it's possible they were mates and after her parentage was revealed, he rejected her. Blackclaw did always seem pretty aggressive and prejudiced even from the start; Mistyfoot could have done so much better.
@@tiffanychan1945 Yeah, I do not in any way mean that they remained those mates. I was always thinking about a possibility that they broke up, though I rather believed that maybe she'd be the one to break up with him first, because he didn't fit her, he obviously couldn't make her happy for a longer period of time with his character, but your option is also very good. I just don't know why Erins said they just were mates and wouldn't confirm that he/she left, because this is obviously strange and a plot hole. And also yeah, Blackclaw is... you know.
Phew
Sunny ,you are my hero for diving into this mess
❤😊🎉😍🥹
This is why, although taking note of fan theories/ideas can be useful and insightful, the authors just...shouldn't, for the most part. They should know their world and their characters and should've taken notes of the family tree along the way as they wrote each book. Or at least, that's what I would do. (Also the fact they really need to discuss things as a team more often because yeesh) And taking fan-said things and putting them on information sources that most fans can and will see as canon is...a little bit favouring. Almost as if they saw these ideas and went "well, sure, that looks like it checks out" and just slapped it down as "canon".
As much of a fan I am of Warriors and have been since I was a kid, the older I got the more I wonder how on earth these managed to get published...and so many, too (some things are purely mistakes by editors, granted, but you get my point).
i stg they could add a lgbtq relationship if they wanted to, the editors barely proofread these mfs with how many times a cat has a different name, different eye color, etc.
@@icy2292 They do have LGBT+ relationships but only a few and they're not directly stated within the books themselves which is mainly due to the fact they wouldn't be published in certain countries at the time of that particular book's publication date originally, back when gay marriage wasn't as legal as it is today. However, there have been a number of times where the authors have confirmed couples such as Barley/Ravenpaw and Tallstar/Jake - they even confirmed Rowanstar to be trans now. Also, editors don't just proofread, they're allowed to make their own suggestions too (famously why Rosepetal and Foxleap never became a couple despite the evidence because an editor said they were too closely related, and I agree that that's a bullshit reason considering the way these cats are supposed to only breed within their own group). The publishing process can often really mess up a book, especially when it's a series and if a series is as popular as something like Warriors is then I suppose most of the editors just assume the book will be great anyway. If it's gonna get them a huge chunk of money from people's pockets regardless then it's no real fuss to them :')
(That being said, whoever works with the Bravelands team really has their shit together because those books are incredible and so much better than Warriors despite being under the same penname)
@Kelsey It kinda started as a bit of a joke because they kept switching his gender by accident so people started saying he's trans lol The only "confirmation" I know of is apparently for Pride Month one year they put it on the website.
It's not author tomfoolery or anything like JK Rowling does, it was just a bit of harmless fandom fun and the authors decided to acknowledge it a little bit and apparently confirm it as canon
My head canon that Whitestorm is Graystripe's and Darkstripe's father
And Runningwind was Ashfur's father. But he was uninterested in parenting
Oh, I imagine Whitestorm as their father too!
Also part of Sharpclaw's family, he was mates with Cherrytail and they had Hawkwing (This was confirmed in Hawkwing's Journey). Cherrytail's littermate is Sparrowpelt and thus for is Pebbleshine's father, who is mate of Hawkwing. Cousins. I already know there is a lot of inbreeding in Warrior Cats but it still freaks me out.
Heathertail and Breezepelt are 1st cousins as well
Ashfoot & Onewhisker are littermates
@ravem actually I figured it’s first cousins once removed. Onestar is Heathertail’s father and Ashfoot is Crowfeather’s mother, making Crow and Heather first cousins. Breezepelt is Crowfeather’s son. So, her cousin’s kid. And cousin’s kid(or parent’s cousin) is first cousin once removed
@@flowerthecat3 il never get the removed part
@@ravem410 well it just mean seperated by one or more genrations
but ya it does get a little complicated
Well, you didn’t exactly get EVERYTHING right. You forgot how Dewnose was mentioned to be Sorrelstripe’s mate even though there was no evidence suggesting that in the books. There was also no reason TO make them mates in the first place considering ThunderClan is already inbreed enough. They could have just left Sorrelstripe’s kits fatherless and no one would have cared.
Ah yes. Sorry I managed to miss that one. The mate line going down and back must have thrown me off.
@@Sunnyfall
Yeah! Understandable! I haven’t even looked at the Family Tree myself because I don’t think it’s available on mobile, and that’s what I use most lol
They should honestly make Stormcloud be mates with someone in ThunderClan. He wasn't born there, and StarClan knows we don't need more inbreeding. More diverse genes, I am begging you!
@@sindrevangenrobberstad2889
I think pairing Stormcloud up with Cherryfall would be a good idea to promote more genetic diversity. Both of Berrynose’s parents come from the horse place so he’s not related to any clan cats except his mom and siblings. There’s a different story for Poppyfrost, but Cherryfall is not that much related to everyone else.
@@Cloverrfrostt Welp, I just found my new background character ship. Stormcloud x Cherryfall for the win! Joining together to diversify the gene pool and hopefully being cute in the process!
Actually, I remember from the Secrets of the Clans book, it briefly notes an "Eaglekit" as Ashfoot's son, in the section where Brokenstar drives WindClan out.
You say "the fan" a lot and I'm wondering is there literally 1 singular fan that made up so many headcanons that became canon? why was it only their headcanons that got confirmed? what's the whole story behind that??? is there a story behind that? It's interesting to see so many cats, which are essentially fan characters get put into the canon line up and have them all come from one person.
It is mostly one particular fan. I chose not to put their name or story in this video because they've gotten a lot of flack since those posts were made, and I don't feel right digging it back up when they're long since gone.
I distinctly remember seeing a post from one of the Erins (can't remember which one!) saying that the fan in question was a "super fan" and that they were allowed to "reveal" these types of seemingly-inconsequential tidbits of lore. I'm not sure if there was ever an explanation as to why that person got that kind of special treatment tbh.
@@saml815 the erin you are talking about is vicky!
It might be Su Susann, I know she was a super fan and named a lot of unknown kits, but not much else.
@@abrady0 She also put many characters in Dark Forest
the comment about wishkit and hopekit not being canon isn't true it's in yellowfang's secret she names the other two kits along with brokenkit in the tree hollow, unless im crazy but im fairly certain i remember her naming them wishkit and hopekit because she was scared and more or less naming them like that to give herself hope.
Just double-checked. The names Wishkit and Hopekit never appear in Yellowfang's Secret. She only ever refers to the two she-cats as her other kits or the two dead kits. Brokenkit is also not named in the tree hollow. She only decides on a name when she places him at Lizardstripe's paws.
wait wishkit and hopekit were never mentioned in yellowfangs secret? i swear she named them that maybe not in the hollow but i swear i remember it? i might be high man idk :Worried:
wait what? I was pretty sure that they were named that ... something is wrong now
@ anyone confused she DOES canonically name them in a field guide im pretty sure!
@@liligwaa i thought i remember it too 😭
I misread hillkit as hellkit. I'm afraid that's all I have to add to this conversation
A new retcon was made just recently concerning parentage, labeling Dewnose as having sired Sorrelstripe's kits Myrtlepaw and Baypaw. From the Warriors family tree instead of the actual books.
I’ve simply opted to go off of what’s talked about in the series books rather than super editions, novellas and the like. If cats werent related or mentioned to be related in the first couple of series, they’re not moving forward. Reducing the inbreeding within the clans
I just seen this channel pop up on my recommendations, I have no regrets clicking it at all. You're so underrated and amazing!!! 💙
I’m pretty sure Hopekit and Wishkit are existing characters though? They didn’t really have an impact in the series, since they pretty much died at birth, but they were Yellowfang’s kits. They were the only 2 she-cats that were born from Yellowfang, but they were too weak to survive, and before they died, she named them Hopekit and Wishkit. You can find this info in her special edition “Yellowfang’s Secret”. It’s something that is shortly seen in the story, where the compares the 2 females to the one male, Brokenkit, who later becomes Brokenstar, because she believed he looked so fit and yet so sinister for his age.
Yeah they exist but their names were never mentioned in the super edition
I agree, most of the old stuff is not canon to me. But I think Onestar being Heathertail's father is confirmed in Crowfeather's Trial. I don't think her mother is confirmed, however.
As stated by another comment, While dovepaw is listening into Windclan, it’s mentioned that Whiletail was “Sharing Onestar’s den tonight” Though this was long after Heathertail was born, and it isn’t brought up again
I must say, Elderkit is a creative name
This makes me think of the warrior cats age problems. An even bigger mess.
It's always a treat to be able to listen to a Sunnyfall video! Also woo!! You're almost to 4k!! I remember when you were in the 300s
Face book helped mould the warrior cats family tree.
*You learn something new every day*
Wait, I could've sworn Yellowfang named Wishkit and Hopekit in Yellowfang's secret.
The one person who made this website is a true warrior for diving into the mess we call warrior cats family tree(I like your videos btw)
At least they have a proper family tree now, but also damn so many cats are direct cousins and dating. I'm glad Graystripe's Vow didn't succeed in setting up Flipclaw and Flywhisker, she's his aunt and it would have just made the problem worse.
Once you look up the Hapsburg tree and King Tut’s family tree, you’ll find out the inbreeding in Warriors is tame in comparison
Still weird but expected.
I studied the warrior cat family tree but into broken code, I can't even name most of the main character's kittens.
Nice video! I wasn't really into the idea of searching the family tree myself (mostly because of zooming problems) so that really helped! Oh, and Blackclaw was shown as Mistystar's mate on Leopardstar's Honor, but I'm not sure if he was on hte family tree before.
One of the things I appreciate this thing is it doesn’t say Brindleface is Sandstorm’s mothrr
Swiftpaw was known as Goldenflower's son in A Dangerous Path, we just didn't know who his father was. And if we go strictly by canon, we still don't.
I don’t think heathertail *is* mentioned in the book as Onestars daughter, but whitetail did share a den with Onestar, and as a leader, that meaning they’re mates.
Lynxkit is in the books lynxkit is in the book where Yellowfang snarls as Swiftpaw's sibling. It isn't Bramblekit cuz he didn't exist by that point
8:25 welp, (spoiler?) they ended up confirming and making this a secondary plot point in Leopardstar's Honor
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure it's Said something about onestar being heathertails dad in one of the field guides.
In Crowfeather’s trial actually.
@@sagestarling3226 oh did they confirm it in that book? It's been a while since I read that one lol my bad
@@Spectorwing yeah, it’s been a while for me to, but if I’m not wrong (I totally could be) Crowfeather mentions (not necessarily out loud) that Heathertail is Onestar’s daughter. Which makes sense seeing as he would have the apprentice-mentor bond with her.
Hollyleaf and Fallen Leaves are a QPR if anything. Aroace Hollyleaf gang
Admittingly, some of the kit names are cute. Tulipkit, Swankit, Cricketkit, and Lavenderkit being the four I like the most.
I got a Myheritage commercial before I started this video lol
Anyone else hate how Blackclaw was established to be Mistystar’s mate? He spends the entire series opposing her, even going so far as to support Hawkfrost in his coup against her for RiverClan deputyship in the 2nd arc. Seems like a terrible choice for a mate to me.
Yeah. In my Rewrite AU, a different tom is mates with Mistystar.
Another thing tho is the wrote blackclaw as mistystar's mate after he was so rude to her and at the time there weren't many know riverclan cats
Rather late to the party, but I recently reread TPB and caught the "non-existent" kits. Since TPB didn't give kittens much attention, random kits were made up on the spot. Lynxkit randomly appeared in Into the Wild chapter 11, noting Firepaw as a good hunter. There's also a black kitten in the same scene who never gets mentioned again, and who (likely) *isn't Swiftkit* since there's no mention of white (and the fluffy gray kitten in that scene could be Cinderkit, as no gender was revealed). There's a tabby tom kitten mentioned in chapter 9 who pisses off Yellowfang and reappears in chapter 11, with a gray and white tom kitten playing alongside him.
Mistlekit appears in Fire and Ice in chapter 15 being treated by Yellowfang, but she's never named. And Ashfur and Ferncloud's siblings were much like Mistlekit: you saw Brindleface prancing around with her *four* kittens, but they were never named, as even Ashpaw and Fernpaw were named.
06:20 wishkit and hopekit were actually named in yellowfang's secret, she names them before she names brokenkit iirc
It really sucks that you can’t trust the wiki (sometimes), you can’t trust the family tree, and you can’t trust the deleted warriors app. Sometimes, even the books go back on things they’ve said! Honestly, there’s no *REAL* source of information.
I mean, it's not weird at all to me that the clans are so inbred. Only recently did they even start to consider allowing outsiders in, and for the most part the only ones who care to are ThunderClan and SkyClan. So for generations, the Clans have been inbreeding simply because there was no new blood in the Clans anyway.
Might also explain why the Tribe is so ungodly useless. They've gotta be extremely inbred because there aren't even other allies around to inbreed with. Stormfur is probably the first outsider to join them in ever.
I can see why they would just add a name to some kits that die at birth or vary soon afterwards being maybe a bit nicer than having lots of unamed dead kits filling up a number of spaces. Might look a bit bad but that's also what happens in nature.
I know huh probably won't see this but ur oc is honestly pretty good
For some reason, most of the kit names that were invented on Facebook just don't sound like proper warrior names.
I love that thunderclan takes up most of the video 😂😂😂
like how darkstripe and tigerstar are cousins. *sweet home alabama intensifies* (and redtail is tigerstars uncle)
morningflower and cloudrunner as mates honestly bothers me so much... like i generally give warriors a lot more leeway when it comes to age gaps so long as they're both warriors when they get together and they don't interact much before they both have their names, but morningflower's mate being a senior warrior when her MOM was born is is super uncomfortable. idk maybe it's just because morningflower is one of my favorite background cats but i think she deserves better than a tom who would've been elder age by the time she was a warrior.
The family tree and the biologically unrealistic looking cats have always frustrated me, idk why. At least they are trying to get the family mix-ups straighten out.
Cat genes are really, really weird. From what I've gathered, kittens might end up looking nothing like their parents, due to weird genes and stuff. Another weird thing that messes with cat genes is sometimes litters can have more than one father (the books avoid this for obvious reasons, but it's still interesting).
True, but typically cats( at least toms) will look like some version of their moms, but that would mean no tigerclaw clones, and that's a no no for the Erin's lol.
@@TheAshfurApologist I can agree that warriors genes make no sense like 99% of the time
@@goldenwillow3002 Not really. When you look at cat genes and why they behave the way they do, they do actually make a lot of sense, and kits usually look somewhat like their parents.
@@fabplays6559 Cat genes might make some sense, but how genes work in warriors makes a lot less sense
Am I the only 1 who believes that the family tree, including the author's word, is ONLY canon if it doesn't contradict the books? This includes character contradictions, like when someone *claimed* that Whitestorm was Fern & Ash's father. (I don't accept that it's canon.)
I had heard from a RUclipsr that SandStorm and Ashfur share the same mother, which Ashfur wanted to be mates with SquirrelFlight but..
Writing a Redtail survives AU currently and had to refer back to this video before proceeding to go ahead and make it true in MY storyline that He and BrindleFace had Sandstorm a bit too early on in their relationship before realizing they weren't true soulmates and broke off the relationship before she was born. Still great parents and have a very happy growing family with WhiteStorm involved as well but Yaknow I wanted some more dynamics for my man Redtail other than his sister.
Also Ashfur is not a little menace attached to Squilf in this so don't worry no inCEst lol.
Um, I don't want to be rude, but I think in the last chapter of Bluestar's prophecy, it's mentioned/hinted that Dustpaw is Ravenpaw's littermate.
Then again, I might be mistaken
Dustpaw did try to play with Ravenpaw in the last chapter (causing him to get startled) but he also played with Graypaw and Sandpaw and nothing is mentioned of any familial connections between any of them. If you come in believing they are brothers, you could see that moment as Dustpaw trying to reach out to his brother, but it certainly doesn't have to be that way.
So Dustpelt being related to Brindleface and becoming mates with Ferncloud is canon? Cause uhh
Dustpelt and Brindleface are siblings in the family tree and well, Ferncloud is Brindleface's kit still even if her father wasn't Whitestorm...
Dustpelt being in any way related to that family isn't canon. I highlighted Ravenpaw's siblinghood specifically because it's a popularly mentioned one, but he isn't siblings with any of those cats. The only reason he's said to be siblings with them is because his parents were decided (out of the books,) to be Robinwing and Fuzzypelt, and Brindleface *is* confirmed to be their daughter in the books, Bluestar's Prophecy to be specific. Taking just what is in the books, Dustpelt's only family is his mate and the kits they have. He didn't have any family before that.
@@Sunnyfall thanks for clearing that up for me!
Shrewclaw and ryestalk are confirmed to be mudclaw and tornear's parents in tallstar's revenge.
I defult to the books for families and timelines in the warriors. As I don't trust the web for anything other than names and plants
Lets just say, everyone we ever met in the warrior series is related :'D
At 8:52, I genuinely thought you were going to say "information pulled from the Warriors ass".
I mean, in context to what's *actually* written in the books, you can't exactly say I'm wrong...
um in leopardstars honor in the alligences in queens willowpelt is in there as mother of darkkit/stripe
Ok but will you give us your opinion on what the family tree really looks like.. pls.
In onestars confesion it states that he is the brother of Morningflower and Ashfoot
you have such a nice voice. i am sorry if that is creepy but your voice is so soft on my ears and not AAAHH IM HERE LISTEN TO ME CAN YOU HEAR ME. its so clear and understandable ☺️
I can't believe that no one's realized that squirrel flight an ashfur are related(kinda).So for those that don't know sandstorms mom was brindle face and her father was said to be red tail but now is not but ashfurs parents where whitstorm and BRINDLE FACE an sand storm is mates with firestar there kits being squirrel flight an leaf pool making ashfur her half uncle! I know crazy! An ashfur wanted to be mates with her -
Actually Sandstorm has no canonical parents. Author statements out of the books retroactively gave her those two several years ago but that was later decanonized and at this point even the Website Family Tree and the Warriors Wiki don't list her as having parents at all, unsurprising because nothing in the books has ever even hinted at her having parents or said who they may be.
@@Sunnyfall Oh thanks! The team prob made them have no parents bc they realized that they were connected
I thought wishkit and hopekit were named in yellowfangs sercet
Tell me this who was the closest cat to maple shade before they found out maple shade was with apple shade.
Mapleshade has no confirmed family beyond her mate and descendents, not even in author statements or the family tree, amazingly.
AppleDusk* Also technically that would be Patchkit I think.
Yo, while I was looking at the family tree, I was looking at the black and white cats and I thought of Swift, Paw, and then I thought of Taylor Swift is Swift paw apaw a singer😂!!??
fun fact: Cinder’Heart and Lion’Blaze are related
Not putting Ravenbarley as mates.... homophobia strikes again. /s
Is that why squirrelflight broke up with Ashfur?, that she found out that he is her uncle?
Bramblestar is also related to her
@@_-NatureMations-_ how?
@@crewmatewhite4532 Squirrelflight's mother is Sandstorm, who's father is Redtail, who's sister is Leopardfoot, who's son is Tigerstar, who's son is Brambleclaw. Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw share a pair of great grandparents, who would be Adderfang and Swiftbreeze. I am aware that in the video they say that Redtail is not but it is briefly mentioned in book one I believe.
...i still think the fact that Graystripes mother and father are brother and sister is so fucking funny and the fact that the wrigthers tried to cover that up XD im not gonna let that go, the clans are all ready inbreed enogh is not something new anyways 🤣
Somebody please tell me whether jake is or isn’t firestars father like the heck is happening- LIKE IS SCOURGE FIRESTARS HALF BROTHER
That is true. Both were confirmed in the Ultimate Guide (the last guide book) back in 2013.
While i do ship Holly and Fallen, I respect everyones opinion
Same
how much of this is misinformation and how much is just not confirmed in-universe? it's almost impossible to tell unless there's some other form of information going against it, especially with how much thought the authors themselves put into it
Too...many...retcons..
It’s a littel hard for me I read the Swedish version because I’m Swedish but it’s hard to say the names in English tho
I'm just gonna point out... There's a certain distance between relatives that is generally considered to be okay for procreation. Most places in the modern era use second cousins as the point where relations are distant enough, in part because it's nearly impossible to keep track of relationships beyond first cousins, and also because the risk becomes negligible at that point.
Case in point- Whilst everyone knows that Ivypool and Fernsong are related through Firestar's family, they don't see that they're actually closer related through Brightheart and Brackenfur, with both confirmed to have the same mother! The only reason we think of them as related through Firestar is because more attention get's paid to Firestar's family!
It’s still incest and it’s still gross no matter how you slice it
Onestar and WhiteTail?? That is possible
Remember me at 50k subs.
Bluestar family tree
Spoiller warning!
Rooktail+Daisytoe= Moonflower and Goosefeather
Moonflower+Stormtail=Bluestar and Snowfur
Snowfur+Thistleclaw=Whitestorm
Rainflower+Shellheart= Crookedstar and Oakheart
Bluestar+ Oakheart=Mistystar, Stonefur and Mosskit
Whitestorm+Brindleface=Fercloud, Ashfur, Tulipkit and Elderkit
Mistystar+Blackclaw= Reedwhisker, Pikepaw , Primerosepaw and Perckit
Whitestorm+Willowpelt=Sorreltail, Sookfur and Rainwhisker
Sorreltail+Brackenfur= Poppyfrost, Honeyfern, Cinderheart, Lilyheart, Seedpaw and Molekit
Poppyfrost+Berrynose= Cherrypaw and Molepaw
Lilyheart+Snowbush= Larksong, Honeyfur and Leafshade
Cinderheart+Lionblaze=Hollytuft, Sorrelstripe and Fernsong
Family tree of Firestar
Spoiler warning!
Crystal+Mocha= Jake, Ferris and Whiskers
Jake+Quince= Scourge, Socks and Ruby
Jake+Nutmeg= Firestar, Princess, Filou, Tommy and Luna
Princess+Oliver= Cloudtail, Zack, Taylor, Livy and Nami
Firestar+Sandstorm=Squirrelflight and Leafpool
Cloudtail+Brightheart= Whitewing, Snowbush, Dewnose and Ambermoon
Leafpool+Crowfeather=Lionblaze, Jayfeather and Hollyleaf
Squirrelflight+Bramblestar= Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Juniperkit and Dandelionkit
Snowbush+Lilyheart=Larksong, Honeyfur and Leafshade
Whitewing+ Birchfall= Dovewing and Ivypool
Lionblaze+ Cinderheart= Hollytuft, Sorrekstripe and Fernsong
Sparkpelt+Larksong=Finchlight, Nightheart and Flickerkit
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what about starclan or bloodclan
StarClan cats all come from the Clans, We know nothing about most BloodClan cats.
So they are not related anymore
5:50 i hate hollyleaf x fallenleaves sm like fallenleaves was literally dead decades before hollyleaf was alive its so stupid
Honestly I feel like it's only going to be a matter of time before someone rants about my 4 Warrior Cats OC's Colossus, Alfred, Ace, and Crovan, which I made all 4 of them to be Scourge's siblings
actually, fallen and holly leaf just promised to be mates and starclan, im a bit confused- back me up here XD
That never happened in the books though? Hollyleaf died and Fallen Leaves was upset. That was it
@@mysticalkat6717 thats not true-
@@mysticalkat6717 erin confirmed that holly leaf and fallen leaves loved eachother, they mentioned if they ever met in *starclan they would become MATES*
@@explodingmicrowave.4816 there was barely even a hint of a romance in canon and there have been so many contradictions by the authors that their word is not a reliable source
@@mysticalkat6717 search it up "did hollyleaf and fallen leaves love eachother"
do some research before arguing
t
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