The video perfectly encapsulates why I like this series. Sterling just dropped a massive and perhaps ludicrous change into the timeline and then treated each and every aspect of it seriously. If he could figure out his lesbian sex to story ratio in a similar way it would have been a definitive masterpiece.
I know a lot of authors put things into their work for their own sexual gratification. There's Piers Anthony and sexualized children or in Steve Stirling's case, racist atheists.
Really enjoy these videos mate! Its so refreshing to see analysis of the Domination that doesn't boil down to 'The Draka are meanies so they could never happen!' Moral outrage is not an argument, even if what one is analysing is morally outrageous. I actually have something of a claim to fame in regard to the Domination series. If you look at Kevin Davies' Deviant Art Page for the Marching Through Georgia cover art (Draka Attack), you'll see that he says the original oil painting was bought by a private collector. Well, that would be me lol. Although 'private collector' is a bit of a grandiose title in my case - I'm just a huge fan of the books. First read them when I was 17 and they were the first novels to really imprint on me and got me into reading and writing ever since. If you ever need any research help then let me know. Its been years since I last read them but I still have a nigh on encyclopedic knowledge of the lore. I'd love to see an analysis of the full timeline and/or the appendices. Once again, excellent work bud - bravo! PS. Apologies if this gets posted 3 times - I had some trouble getting the comment to stay up for some reason.
I wondered who the "private collector" was. I bought a print of that art from Kevin' Davies so I could scan it for the first Draka video I did. It's hanging in my office now. It gets some odd looks from visitors. I have been pondering doing some deep-dive Draka lore videos. Sometime it would be great to set up a call to talk about it. If you're open to it I'd even be up for doing a long-form video discussion to post some time.
It would make a killer miniseries. Imagine with a director who really understood the Draka and their world, with a Game of Thrones budget. I would use all unknow actors for greater impact. I would add some Draka world commercials. The end credits would be Draka world too. "NO SERFS WERE PERMANENTLY INJURED DURING THE MAKING OF THIS FILM PLAY."
And who knows? After the (let's be honest, atp) _fucking inevitable_ buyout, whoever Disney puts in charge might just start screaming to "make her _Straight"_ for a change...
And their parliament building looks like a structure out of Atlantis with a stained glass dome. Also note that the Holbars T6 DID have a heavier Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) complement machine gun. And yes, those drums were factory-packed.
And yes, those drums were factory-packed. So they were just thrown away when empty? Was every trooper followed by a train of serfs carrying the ammo that weighed twice what their enemy were carrying? Draka logistics would have led to there sure defeat.
@@JohnHughesChampignyTake it up with SM Stirling. To quote him, politely, "it's a dystopia, you ..." And yes, Draka Citizen Force and Janissary troops circa 1942 DTL are followed by unarmed logistics serfs - Auxiliaries. The Draka Timeline is near-future althist circa 1990, and has stylistic details that have visibly failed in the interim (scramjets as massively successful, most prominently)
I remember when I first read Marchng through GA back in 1990 and read the appendix I was totally wowed by it. the detail of the alternate history novel appendix was just unprecedented at the time. The Draka reminds of the South African army of the 1980s. right down to the Holbars T-6 assault rifle (on the cover of the novel) which reminds me of a South African R5 assault rifle(copy of the Israeli Galil) with a 75 round drum mag which after some though SM Stirling was probably a big fan of the US Stoner 63 assault rifle which had a optional 75 drum magazine. and in comparison to that The Draka holbars T-6 is shorter lighter but also has a 5mm round , smaller than the 5.56 the stoner 63 uses, making it feasable for the T-6 to be used. as a assault rifle. and I highly agree with you on the feed of the T-6 drum mag.
Every once in awhile I toy with the idea of wildcatting some 5x45 Draka cartridges and building something chambered for it. I'll almost certainly never do it, but it's a time and money problem more than anything else.
@@feralhistorian Id like to see how you build the Holbars . also its stated the T-6 was used until the 1970s and was modernized like with lighter and durable materials, possibly even telescope sights, laser range finders etc. maybe shorter frame. and I think the HOlbars T-6 will also take 30 round clips but the standard issue seems to be the 75 round drum.
@@johnwalsh4857 I'd like to see how I'd do it too. I have a rough idea in my head, but translating that into machined parts is the kind of engineering project no one pays me to do anymore.
Great breakdown. This is a series I only heard of through your videos, and seems very intriguing to me as I have also only recently studied the actual history of the mid century African bushwars, specifically Rhodesia, Angola, and South Africa. One thing that sticks out to me is that the use of lmgs beyond the machinegunner role actually did happen with special forces units, and for similar rationale as with the Draka.
I've taught wilderness survival for 30 years, in the Intermountain west. I would not carry a machete for this area if any other tool were available. The only cover art issue there is that I would (& sometimes do) carry a 'bushknife', slightly smaller than most machetes with a much thicker blade, those could be mistaken for a machete.
Interesting. As it relates to the books, I recall both terms, bushknife and machete being used, though I don't recall if they were used interchangeably.
Very nice, one likes it, one likes it! About the draka story, they appear to be karma houdinis means, they always win wars, and never lost one About the helmets, you are right as it was based on Stahlhelm 45 and Samurai helmet But those helmets are also based on iraqi fedayeen helmets and Pasgt helmets
The Fedayeen helmets are a great illustration. They were made because Uday Hussein thought they looked cool, but in use they had all the problems I mentioned, mostly just getting in the way during combat. They didn't even offer much protection, thanks to sketchy materials.
Also the Draka squad automatic weapon is a variant of the T-6 with longer barrell and a 150 round drum magazine. the Jannisaries use the SAW Mark 1 from WW1 , with a 7.5mm 15 to 30 round box magazine like the Bren LMG.
I appreciate your analysis of Mr. Stirling's work, and the inclusion of high quality fan art that is sure to be accepted as "Fanon" by those who like the books. Thanks for all your hard work on this project! 262nd Like.
from my talks with Stirling, the Japanese used their copy of the T-5(named the Arisaka rifle up until the end of the war in 1945. The Americans started the war with the Springfield a upgrade of the T-5 akin to the M14 rifle. but later in the war, upgraded to a copy of the T-6 holbars(smaller with a 35 round magazine , shorter with a simliar 5.5 mm round). also tank wise, the Japanese were using T-34 type tanks, while the Americans were using M-48s.
Interesting. I always assumed that a mag-fed T6 would have a 35-round capacity but had no basis for that. But if Stirling said it maybe I read that somewhere.
@@feralhistorian Yep same with a Galil assault rifle and the South African R5 also had 35 round clips. Interestingly the Galil is basically a reworked AK47 chambered to the 5.56.
@@johnwalsh4857 I've been around the Galil and it's heavy, a little too heavy. Also, it's got a weird balance. Basically, the whole world is going over to a clone of the AR15 version M4 platform. The US Army? It turned insane in 2024 and has basically a copy of the T-6 in .270 caliber that cost $12 per shot.
@@Easy-Eight yah shot a Galil a few times in the 80s, yep its heavy. Interestingly I found it was as heavy as the Chinese Type 56 AK47 clone but the Type 56 was more compact, found that bottle opener on the Galil to be interesting.
@@johnwalsh4857 I've owned and shot FALs, ARs, Mausers, Winchesters, Enfields, M1 Carbines, M1 Garands, and those Springfield M1As. Honestly, for hard hitting, well balanced, easy to hold, and excellent to shoot there are few rifles better than a post 2000 production M1A with a synthetic (plastic) stock. Gawds that rifle is excellent. We're talking sub MOA at 100 yards. We're talking some of the best iron sights in the business. .308 isn't a perfect round but it's somewhat inexpensive and bloody hard hitting; if worse goes to worse you can steal 7.62 NATO from a machine gun. The Delta operators (equal to the fictional Draka) use upgraded versions of the M21 (the Springfield M1A). It really pisses me off the US Army went over to the XM-7 when there were 7.62 NATO AR platforms that were far more inexpensive and more robust.
The problem being that the game isn’t intended to track two different kinds of recruits, so you could feed a pool into Citizen and a pool into Janissary.
One wonders how well the Draka would have stood up against the Chimera from the Resistance franchise (fall of man, etc). As I’d agree they’re the anthesis of the Draka in a few ways.
There is a group doing a Chimera vs Draka project over at alternatehistory.com. They get into some of the odd possibilities in that matchup. I did some artwork for them too when I was working on Draka stuff.
@@feralhistorian I'd love to see you talk about Resistance at some point, definitely one of my favorite alien invasion stories. If you're unaware, there are books and (I think) comics in addition to the games. There's also a cool fanfic that chronicles the Chimeran War up to the beginning of the first game in the style of World War Z.
Every Draka soldier could be a light machinegunner. Yeah, like the fallschirmjaeger with his FG42. An evolutionary dead end, inferior to the STG44, or even the M1 Carbine. I do like how the depictions of the Draka rifles are clearly somewhat based on the swiss Sturmgewehr 57, another ridiculously overengineered and heavy rifle made by scaling down a light machine gun.
The Draka had one advantage, serf costs are low. The early AK-47s started with a 10 pound billet of steel that was eventually milled down to about 2.5 pounds for the rifle receiver. That's expensive. Serf's cost are inexpensive so the Draka could be inefficient.
@@Easy-Eight Well, no. The "early" AK-47 was stamped, they fell back to the milled receiver because initially their stamping technology was making too many duds. The expense of milling wasn't labour, it was the machines. Each different cut needs a different machine. Unless the Draka are having their rifles made by hand...
I think the Jannissary Corps is a very interesting arm of teh Draka armed forces. Yes they are the brute force of the Draka military, the club as opposed to the Rapier of the Citizen Force. however they constitute like 75 percent of the Draka armed forces. Jannissary corps in the Eurasian war are described as motorized infantry units with towed artillery. quality on average comparable to alliance units more or less. but some units like the devil dogs are considered elite enough to impress their Draka masters. (hard to do). Also I think there is a Draka Jannissary marine corps to compliment Draka marine units. also while there are Draka specialized units and Recce(their version of special forces) Jannissaries also develop their own specialized units depending on the unit, also Jannissaries are used extensively on anti partisan duty and are well experienced. probably even better experienced than Draka units.
In _Marching Through Georgia_ Eric Von Strakenberg (spelling?) briefly considers the anachronism of the Draka bush sword but its implied it's so ingrained in their Aristocratic psyche (sword cultures) that it hangs on despite all the impracticalities. Never mind that drawing, let alone re-sheathing a 24" blade (if my 62 year old memory still works) from a back carry is extremely problematic, unless you have some sort of semi-open break scabbard, which is never described. As it is, SM Stirling in his Emberverse series has finally realized back carry for swords while looking cool, isn't useful at all except for transporting your long blade where waist carry won't work (climbing a cliff, hang gliding).
I do recall Eric von Shrakenburg (or vShrak in all my notes) musing about the bush knife. For me that covers why they brought the things. After though, I have to think that soldiers will start "losing" them as a way to ditch some dead weight. The Decurion puts "Logistical Oversight Supply Transfer" on the report, and no one asks questions.
Huh, synchronicity. I haven't read the novels, but plan to after these videos. Before reading the comments I paused to think of the lobster tail attachment the Colonial Marines had access too even if they aren't shown in Aliens. I was thinking that given how light and flexible their armour is already, that I'd be all for using segmented tail in most circumstances.
Reminds me of my wife's critique of the Civil War novel Cold Mountain w all the attention on describing guns and not the actual plot or narrative. It was all worldbuilding, and that can be good or bad. I recently watched the YT released ST: Strange New Worlds, and it was shockingly good. Best ST since Kirk and the Gang- good mix of homage and expansion, plus a throwback to fun and some silliness, as well as the morality plays that work. Have you seen it?
Worldbuilding has to match the tone. When Raiders of the Lost Ark shows us Germans using MP40s in 1936 I don't care, it's iconic design in a fantasy adventure setting. But when serious historical dramas get details like that wrong, it lowers my impression of the whole work. I was pleasantly surprised by ST: Strange New Worlds, I expected a shizburger but overall it felt more like "old Trek" than anything since Early Next Gen, if a bit uneven. I'm reserving judgment until we get about halfway through the next season to see how far it distances itself from the trainwreck that Discovery became.
@@feralhistorian I'm assuming you passed on Picard? It was even worse cuz here are characters you knew and mostly liked and they were shat upon relentlessly.
@@danschneider7531 My wife and I made fun of it over drinks all the way through. Season 3 had some good things, but several plot points made no sense and they still don't quite grok what Trek is. Season 1 was a wasted opportunity and season 2 . . . that was shit. I'm almost impressed with the way they were able to systematically deconstruct and destroy almost every key character from '90s-era Trek. It's a master class in how to ruin a franchise that's been successful for a half-century.
just from my brief research into Rhodesia and their squad tactics, military tactics, and Kit would the Draka military be more affective if they used Rhodesian style tactics and kit? with maybe a bit more emphasis on Infantry Automatic Rifles aka a heavier rifle to be used in a light machine gun role? cause whenever I think of Draka I think of Rhodesia.
Your examples of military helmets don't go as high as is now common, at least for certain subsets of US forces. On those helmets the ears are completely unprotected as it is assumed you will be wearing a headset that both protects your hearing from gunshots and explosions but also allows radio communications.
also to add , the Draka fought not only native armies, Ottoman and Chinese armies (before WW2 1941) but also fought Austro Hungarian , and the Japanese and Soviet armies in 1920s to 1930s border wars, there is a mention of border wars with the Japanese in China (the Japanese conquered most of China by end of WW1). except for western China which was conquered by the Draka), the Japanese army by the 30s was armed with a copy of the Draka Holbars T-5 semi automatic rifle. I think possibly chambered to 7.7 mm. (as was the Japanaese rifle OTL Arisaka type 99) and the Soviets armed with the Tokarev rifle which again is a copy of the T-5(chambered to 7.62mm). And I think the T-6 had its debut in the border wars with the Soviets and Japanese.
Have you read the Drakas! short-story collection? It's written by multiple authors but edited by Stirling and covers some the periods only alluded to in the appendices. Whether it's strictly speaking canon is debatable I suppose, but it has some pre-Marching Through Georgia stories that really flesh out some of the background. I'm planning to cover one or two of them sometime down the line. Have to do new Draka content every once in a while.
@@feralhistorian Yes I did, I read Drakas when it first came out back in 2000 , it was OK, liked some stories other not so much. I was expecting Stirling to release a prequel to Marching through GA named the Laughter of the Guns(set in WW1) and Unto us a child(Sequel to Drakon). alas we got Drakas instead. but I did have talks with SM Stirling through forums and he fleshed out the world somewhat. Id like to see how the Drakon earth timeline turned out after the epilogue at the end of Domination(all three books together iwth an original prologue and epilogue).
@@johnwalsh4857 Yes, Drakas! was uneven. Some good stuff though. I was looking forward to Laughter of the Guns back in 2000 or whenever it was. A sequel to Drakon less so. What forum was your talk with Stirling and is it still archived? I'm interested in what he said about it.
@@feralhistorian yah that talk was like 20 to 25 years years ago, I will have to look for it. I believe I talked to him in one of those google alternate history forums. I believe Sitrling had a problem with Jim Baen and swore never to go back to Baen Books . I believe Stirling would like to do more Draka but unfortunately Baen books hold hte rights to it.
I had the impression the Draka were super fit, at least equal to Delta or Navy Seals. Super fit, smart, and motivated soldiers remove a lot of problems from a unit. That's just the way it is. BTW, you've seen this before in history and comes in cycles. The knights of the Middle Ages were few in number compared to the imperial roman Army. Heavy horse could ride down a mere sword armed infantry unit. Look at 1940. A simple Japanese tank could run wild over simple Chinese infantry. Conversely, in 2024 a tank is a target for a drone.
The Draka Citizen Force would be the fastest army to adapt or ditch ther gear in wartime. Their ethos is praticallity in battle over all. Their R&D would be closer to actual veterans than other armys if nothing else because the children of the ruling elite are not kept out of actual combat. The heart of the franchise Draka world is; Competent Evil. Real world Evil systems seem to have fatal flaws built into their systems. Sometimes it can be symbols of success given prority over actual success, or ideology that is to inflexible to adopt simple improvements. It can be a protected and corupt privilaged ruling class that never has to account for failures. It can be a dishonest government culture that hides mistakes and falsifes reports toadvance careers. Or it can be trible rivalries that make team work subordinate to individual tribal gain.
Also, authoritarian societies tend to not like innovative thinkers too much. Such people tend to come up with ideas that destabilize the authoritarian structure. It's not always the case but it is frequent. As a result, the more authoritarian the society the less technological and scientific advancement it comes up with. Most of "their" advances usually come from spying on more progressive cultures and stealing their ideas and toys.
The books I've currently got in the pipeline are The Sparrow, Dies the Fire, and A Fire Upon The Deep. They take forever because I have to do a bunch of illustrations. But all suggestions are noted on the ever-expanding list of possibilities.
@@feralhistorian _The Sparrow_ I'm unfamiliar with; _Dies the Fire_ is unsurprising, as if memory serves that's another Stirling book (and series or two,) and _A Fire Upon the Deep_ I've actually read. The ideas of _AFUD_ are interesting; I just have problems with the antagonist.
The T6 looks more like the M27 IAR or FG 42 than an M249 based on the presumed use. Also, reliable detachable box magazines were very difficult to manufacture with 1930's technology. That is one of the reasons the U.S. went with a clip feed for the Garand. Belts make more sense for anything that isn't a pistol until mid 1940s. Also consider the legacy of the forces: M1 Garand, same 30-06 as the 1903 and 1917. Add rate of fire and increase capacity. Everyman a rifleman, aimed fire for every shot but now you have more total volume. Kar98k + MG42, a man is only as useful as his group element. Machine guns fire, rifles maneuver. Don't forget your grenades either. PPS, PPSH, AK47. Every man a submachine gunner. Use artillery to break up the enemy, close to 200 meters and hose them down. T6 every man and assault man. You are in the bush, where is the enemy? Recon by force. Draka are always outnumbered in their society, ammo is cheap, citizens are expensive. If you have an angry mob and an 8 shot semi auto, 20 people rush you down and you get 3 rounds off. You have 75 rounds on tap, gonna need a bigger mob.
Definitely not an AKM, everything hinted at about Draka industry suggests the T6 has a milled receiver. I'm pretty sure the inspiration is the South African R4, which is mostly a Galil clone, which is itself essentially just an AK variant.
I haven't set anything up yet. I think if the channel gets to 1000 subscribers I'll start trying some monetization and generally taking the whole thing more seriously.
My view is that the Draka Jannisary forces use the same uniform as the citizens corps but the weaponry is more downgraded. at the start of their entry into WW2 in summer 1941, the Jannissary forces were mostly equipped with teh T-5 semi auto rifle . Again with the view, the citizens get the best equipment and the Jannissaries the hand me downs and as noted in the books , 14 million T-5s were manufactured up until the 1930s. I can see the Jannissary forces which consitute about 75 percent of the Draka military were equipped this way until near the end of the Eurasian war, were they were transitioning to the T-6. Even during the pacificatfion wars post Eurasian war , large portions of the Jannissary forces were still equpped with the T-5.
I'd imagine the Janissaries would have a more basic uniform, but of a similar design. No built-in kneepads and lacking some of the niceties of the Citizen uniforms. Essentially Janissaries being issued gear equivalent to other standard WW2-era armies while the Citizen forces get gucci-gear with built-in knee-pads, carefully designed stretch panels, and higher quality fabric to stand up to longer use in the field reflecting that the Citizens are an elite force.
@@feralhistorian Yep that one too, the Jannisarries get the hand me downs and simpler cheaper made uniforms. Also Im thinking if being a Draka officer in the Jannissary corps is actually a demotion, like for Draka who pissed off the wrong people.
@@johnwalsh4857 Being a Janissary officer wasn't a demotion. It was a test. Go too "native," show too much love for your cannon fodder troops, and you will never be promoted further up. A Citizen Force officer existed to preserve his unit, a Janissary officer existed to expend it.
@@djolds1 that one too, however the Draka officer is also expected to lead their jannisaries by example. live fight and die with them. Yep the draka jannissary officer has to guide and maintain discipline and stability in the Jannissary corps while not going native.
@@johnwalsh4857 I suspect the von Shrakenbergs are an extremist aberration in Draka society. Too honorable. And note, the janissary officer vS who killed the original Marya in UTY essentially died for - being too decent. In Draka terms, anyway.
True (I even used a Galil as reference, as I suspect the cover artist did as well) but a distinction to be filed under _I say Kalashnikov, you say Balashnikov . . ._ It's essentially the same design.
@@feralhistorian lol fair enough sir. Sorry i thought the picture you posted was from the book or something. I was like thats clearly a galil! Hey man i really love your videos. I have them on a loop as i go to bed.
Regarding helmets... When fighting a technically inferior opponent, it soon enough becomes clear that you're fighting guerrillas. And good luck fighting guerrillas with a steel pot like that on your head. You'll never hear anything with those helmets on. The Germans changed the shape of their helmets a bit during the war - because a sentry on post couldn't hear well with a steel “bell” on his head covering his ears - they added special slits to solve that problem. Draka helmets as they are pictured is 10 times worse. They would make soldiers practically deaf...
I have to disagree about the reason helmets are changing shape and size. It has little to do with comfort or improving vision, but more to integrate ear protection and communication gear into the helmet. Everybody wants their own set of Peltors (or similar brand).
Russians are using boots again, though many will be soviet stock rather than the leather WW1 or officer versions. Different footwear suit different terrain, these boot were swapped out for sneakers in Afghanistan, but in Ukraine mud and sharp objects are a major concern and veterans advise in the field manuals to use high boots with a decent resistance to piecing. Hand to hand is favoured in certain cultures, notably Americans are one of the most extreme on the side of firepower and marksmanship, though marksmanship at least is commonly marched basically all European militaries retain substantially more enthusiasm for the bayonet, in short just because the Americans thought swords were silly (they weren't, at all, a least if you understand the context of fighting in China, and basic human psychologically responses to being charged with one) the Japanese carried them anyway. Personally I'd criticise the bayonet as too light, and much more of a tool, but I'm British, the designs and fighting styles favoured are equally cultural, one could criticise the Cossacks for using swords that didn't have guards, by they were their swords, and they knew how to use them (and they really did, during the civil war massively numerically superior red forces were regularly humbled by men who had little or no ammo, and often even the swords themselves were in short supply).
IDK why a good comentator wastes time on such a bottom of the barrel "sci fi" (using the term loosely) series. This Draka crap is right up there with Harry Turtledove for literary quality.
I see where you're coming from Adam.I haven't read the Draka stuff, but found Harry Turtledove in my late teens/early 20s and bounced right off it. I thought it was dross (and nothing has changed my mind since). But after being given a pretty bad history book (by a loving family member who hadn't read it) in my late 30s I had a slow realisation. That junk history book got me thinking, it got me motivated to find much better books on bits history I wouldn't have looked into otherwise. Those were two good things from a terrible book that I never open again. I've had the same thing since, from fiction too. If I can stand finishing it,and it gets me thinking afterwards,well that novel will never be reread or recommended to anyone,but it's done me a better turn than most media.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
The video perfectly encapsulates why I like this series. Sterling just dropped a massive and perhaps ludicrous change into the timeline and then treated each and every aspect of it seriously. If he could figure out his lesbian sex to story ratio in a similar way it would have been a definitive masterpiece.
I know a lot of authors put things into their work for their own sexual gratification. There's Piers Anthony and sexualized children or in Steve Stirling's case, racist atheists.
Wat
He loved that shit, didn't he?
@@patefreeman1106 Many of Stirling's stories involve strong female protagonists/antagonists with lesbian sexual orientation.
All of his books suffer from this, i love the change series but less horny lesbian sex and any sex would be nice tbh
I've waited decades for conversation about the Draka.
It's an ongoing thing here. There will be more.
@@feralhistorian please! i would love to see. I'll check any other, older vids you made about them.
@@enocescalona I just put all the Draka vids into a playlist. There will be more on that subject to come.
Really enjoy these videos mate! Its so refreshing to see analysis of the Domination that doesn't boil down to 'The Draka are meanies so they could never happen!' Moral outrage is not an argument, even if what one is analysing is morally outrageous.
I actually have something of a claim to fame in regard to the Domination series. If you look at Kevin Davies' Deviant Art Page for the Marching Through Georgia cover art (Draka Attack), you'll see that he says the original oil painting was bought by a private collector. Well, that would be me lol. Although 'private collector' is a bit of a grandiose title in my case - I'm just a huge fan of the books. First read them when I was 17 and they were the first novels to really imprint on me and got me into reading and writing ever since.
If you ever need any research help then let me know. Its been years since I last read them but I still have a nigh on encyclopedic knowledge of the lore. I'd love to see an analysis of the full timeline and/or the appendices.
Once again, excellent work bud - bravo!
PS. Apologies if this gets posted 3 times - I had some trouble getting the comment to stay up for some reason.
I wondered who the "private collector" was. I bought a print of that art from Kevin' Davies so I could scan it for the first Draka video I did. It's hanging in my office now. It gets some odd looks from visitors.
I have been pondering doing some deep-dive Draka lore videos. Sometime it would be great to set up a call to talk about it. If you're open to it I'd even be up for doing a long-form video discussion to post some time.
Draka would make a awesome TV show.
It would make a killer miniseries. Imagine with a director who really understood the Draka and their world, with a Game of Thrones budget.
I would use all unknow actors for greater impact. I would add some Draka world commercials. The end credits would be Draka world too.
"NO SERFS WERE PERMANENTLY INJURED DURING THE MAKING OF THIS FILM PLAY."
@@Albemarle7 Nice
And who knows? After the (let's be honest, atp) _fucking inevitable_ buyout, whoever Disney puts in charge might just start screaming to "make her _Straight"_ for a change...
Not these days
And their parliament building looks like a structure out of Atlantis with a stained glass dome. Also note that the Holbars T6 DID have a heavier Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) complement machine gun. And yes, those drums were factory-packed.
And yes, those drums were factory-packed. So they were just thrown away when empty? Was every trooper followed by a train of serfs carrying the ammo that weighed twice what their enemy were carrying? Draka logistics would have led to there sure defeat.
@@JohnHughesChampignyTake it up with SM Stirling. To quote him, politely, "it's a dystopia, you ..." And yes, Draka Citizen Force and Janissary troops circa 1942 DTL are followed by unarmed logistics serfs - Auxiliaries. The Draka Timeline is near-future althist circa 1990, and has stylistic details that have visibly failed in the interim (scramjets as massively successful, most prominently)
I remember when I first read Marchng through GA back in 1990 and read the appendix I was totally wowed by it. the detail of the alternate history novel appendix was just unprecedented at the time. The Draka reminds of the South African army of the 1980s. right down to the Holbars T-6 assault rifle (on the cover of the novel) which reminds me of a South African R5 assault rifle(copy of the Israeli Galil) with a 75 round drum mag which after some though SM Stirling was probably a big fan of the US Stoner 63 assault rifle which had a optional 75 drum magazine. and in comparison to that The Draka holbars T-6 is shorter lighter but also has a 5mm round , smaller than the 5.56 the stoner 63 uses, making it feasable for the T-6 to be used. as a assault rifle. and I highly agree with you on the feed of the T-6 drum mag.
Every once in awhile I toy with the idea of wildcatting some 5x45 Draka cartridges and building something chambered for it. I'll almost certainly never do it, but it's a time and money problem more than anything else.
@@feralhistorian Id like to see how you build the Holbars . also its stated the T-6 was used until the 1970s and was modernized like with lighter and durable materials, possibly even telescope sights, laser range finders etc. maybe shorter frame. and I think the HOlbars T-6 will also take 30 round clips but the standard issue seems to be the 75 round drum.
@@johnwalsh4857 I'd like to see how I'd do it too. I have a rough idea in my head, but translating that into machined parts is the kind of engineering project no one pays me to do anymore.
"I remember when I first read Marching through GA back in 1990" -- It's actually "Marching through GE" -- "GA" is Gabon.
@@JohnHughesChampigny haha true, GA is the state of Georgia.
Wow this channel is somewhat of a hidden gem! I am glad I got recommended this video, it was very interesting. Keep up the good work!
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Great breakdown. This is a series I only heard of through your videos, and seems very intriguing to me as I have also only recently studied the actual history of the mid century African bushwars, specifically Rhodesia, Angola, and South Africa.
One thing that sticks out to me is that the use of lmgs beyond the machinegunner role actually did happen with special forces units, and for similar rationale as with the Draka.
The Rhodesian Bush War is a rabbit hole I've gotten lost in on more than one occasion.
I've taught wilderness survival for 30 years, in the Intermountain west. I would not carry a machete for this area if any other tool were available. The only cover art issue there is that I would (& sometimes do) carry a 'bushknife', slightly smaller than most machetes with a much thicker blade, those could be mistaken for a machete.
Interesting. As it relates to the books, I recall both terms, bushknife and machete being used, though I don't recall if they were used interchangeably.
Very nice, one likes it, one likes it!
About the draka story, they appear to be karma houdinis means, they always win wars, and never lost one
About the helmets, you are right as it was based on Stahlhelm 45 and Samurai helmet
But those helmets are also based on iraqi fedayeen helmets and Pasgt helmets
The Fedayeen helmets are a great illustration. They were made because Uday Hussein thought they looked cool, but in use they had all the problems I mentioned, mostly just getting in the way during combat. They didn't even offer much protection, thanks to sketchy materials.
@@feralhistorianalso
Holbars T6 is based on galil, not AK-47
@@rosebeaufort6238 True, but the Galil is based on the AK.
Also the Draka squad automatic weapon is a variant of the T-6 with longer barrell and a 150 round drum magazine. the Jannisaries use the SAW Mark 1 from WW1 , with a 7.5mm 15 to 30 round box magazine like the Bren LMG.
I appreciate your analysis of Mr. Stirling's work, and the inclusion of high quality fan art that is sure to be accepted as "Fanon" by those who like the books. Thanks for all your hard work on this project!
262nd Like.
1:10 The Draka helmet looks like the Imperial Army Trooper helmet from Star Wars.
Have to say there is some great videos on this channel and some great takes.
from my talks with Stirling, the Japanese used their copy of the T-5(named the Arisaka rifle up until the end of the war in 1945. The Americans started the war with the Springfield a upgrade of the T-5 akin to the M14 rifle. but later in the war, upgraded to a copy of the T-6 holbars(smaller with a 35 round magazine , shorter with a simliar 5.5 mm round). also tank wise, the Japanese were using T-34 type tanks, while the Americans were using M-48s.
Interesting. I always assumed that a mag-fed T6 would have a 35-round capacity but had no basis for that. But if Stirling said it maybe I read that somewhere.
@@feralhistorian Yep same with a Galil assault rifle and the South African R5 also had 35 round clips. Interestingly the Galil is basically a reworked AK47 chambered to the 5.56.
@@johnwalsh4857 I've been around the Galil and it's heavy, a little too heavy. Also, it's got a weird balance. Basically, the whole world is going over to a clone of the AR15 version M4 platform. The US Army? It turned insane in 2024 and has basically a copy of the T-6 in .270 caliber that cost $12 per shot.
@@Easy-Eight yah shot a Galil a few times in the 80s, yep its heavy. Interestingly I found it was as heavy as the Chinese Type 56 AK47 clone but the Type 56 was more compact, found that bottle opener on the Galil to be interesting.
@@johnwalsh4857 I've owned and shot FALs, ARs, Mausers, Winchesters, Enfields, M1 Carbines, M1 Garands, and those Springfield M1As. Honestly, for hard hitting, well balanced, easy to hold, and excellent to shoot there are few rifles better than a post 2000 production M1A with a synthetic (plastic) stock. Gawds that rifle is excellent. We're talking sub MOA at 100 yards. We're talking some of the best iron sights in the business. .308 isn't a perfect round but it's somewhat inexpensive and bloody hard hitting; if worse goes to worse you can steal 7.62 NATO from a machine gun. The Delta operators (equal to the fictional Draka) use upgraded versions of the M21 (the Springfield M1A). It really pisses me off the US Army went over to the XM-7 when there were 7.62 NATO AR platforms that were far more inexpensive and more robust.
The Draka: *sips coffee* todays subject, SLAVERY
I think you mean "Serfdom".
Surprised no one made a Domination of the Draka mod for Hearts of Iron 4
I think there was one for a previous iteration.
The problem being that the game isn’t intended to track two different kinds of recruits, so you could feed a pool into Citizen and a pool into Janissary.
@@Detson404it’s too dated for me to play
One wonders how well the Draka would have stood up against the Chimera from the Resistance franchise (fall of man, etc). As I’d agree they’re the anthesis of the Draka in a few ways.
There is a group doing a Chimera vs Draka project over at alternatehistory.com. They get into some of the odd possibilities in that matchup. I did some artwork for them too when I was working on Draka stuff.
@@feralhistorian nice! Do you remember the thread name or what have you?
@@feralhistorian I'd love to see you talk about Resistance at some point, definitely one of my favorite alien invasion stories. If you're unaware, there are books and (I think) comics in addition to the games. There's also a cool fanfic that chronicles the Chimeran War up to the beginning of the first game in the style of World War Z.
Every Draka soldier could be a light machinegunner. Yeah, like the fallschirmjaeger with his FG42. An evolutionary dead end, inferior to the STG44, or even the M1 Carbine. I do like how the depictions of the Draka rifles are clearly somewhat based on the swiss Sturmgewehr 57, another ridiculously overengineered and heavy rifle made by scaling down a light machine gun.
Another excellent video! Sorry about not getting in touch with you. Got caught up with work. I’ll be posting this on our story thread
The fallschirmjaegers used rifles similar to the Draka T-6s and they even looked quite similar, wonder if the concept was initially just copying them.
The Draka had one advantage, serf costs are low. The early AK-47s started with a 10 pound billet of steel that was eventually milled down to about 2.5 pounds for the rifle receiver. That's expensive. Serf's cost are inexpensive so the Draka could be inefficient.
@@Easy-Eight Well, no. The "early" AK-47 was stamped, they fell back to the milled receiver because initially their stamping technology was making too many duds. The expense of milling wasn't labour, it was the machines. Each different cut needs a different machine. Unless the Draka are having their rifles made by hand...
I think the Jannissary Corps is a very interesting arm of teh Draka armed forces. Yes they are the brute force of the Draka military, the club as opposed to the Rapier of the Citizen Force. however they constitute like 75 percent of the Draka armed forces. Jannissary corps in the Eurasian war are described as motorized infantry units with towed artillery. quality on average comparable to alliance units more or less. but some units like the devil dogs are considered elite enough to impress their Draka masters. (hard to do). Also I think there is a Draka Jannissary marine corps to compliment Draka marine units. also while there are Draka specialized units and Recce(their version of special forces) Jannissaries also develop their own specialized units depending on the unit, also Jannissaries are used extensively on anti partisan duty and are well experienced. probably even better experienced than Draka units.
In _Marching Through Georgia_ Eric Von Strakenberg (spelling?) briefly considers the anachronism of the Draka bush sword but its implied it's so ingrained in their Aristocratic psyche (sword cultures) that it hangs on despite all the impracticalities. Never mind that drawing, let alone re-sheathing a 24" blade (if my 62 year old memory still works) from a back carry is extremely problematic, unless you have some sort of semi-open break scabbard, which is never described. As it is, SM Stirling in his Emberverse series has finally realized back carry for swords while looking cool, isn't useful at all except for transporting your long blade where waist carry won't work (climbing a cliff, hang gliding).
I do recall Eric von Shrakenburg (or vShrak in all my notes) musing about the bush knife. For me that covers why they brought the things. After though, I have to think that soldiers will start "losing" them as a way to ditch some dead weight.
The Decurion puts "Logistical Oversight Supply Transfer" on the report, and no one asks questions.
I swear that there was something in one ofnthe first 3 novels about the citizen force helmets having articulated 'lobster tails'.
Huh, synchronicity. I haven't read the novels, but plan to after these videos. Before reading the comments I paused to think of the lobster tail attachment the Colonial Marines had access too even if they aren't shown in Aliens.
I was thinking that given how light and flexible their armour is already, that I'd be all for using segmented tail in most circumstances.
6:19. Forgive a comment on a year old video, but it seems to be an RPD, which had a 100 round belt held in a drum
Always good to comment on old videos
Why does it matter how old the video is?
Reminds me of my wife's critique of the Civil War novel Cold Mountain w all the attention on describing guns and not the actual plot or narrative.
It was all worldbuilding, and that can be good or bad. I recently watched the YT released ST: Strange New Worlds, and it was shockingly good. Best ST since Kirk and the Gang- good mix of homage and expansion, plus a throwback to fun and some silliness, as well as the morality plays that work. Have you seen it?
Worldbuilding has to match the tone. When Raiders of the Lost Ark shows us Germans using MP40s in 1936 I don't care, it's iconic design in a fantasy adventure setting. But when serious historical dramas get details like that wrong, it lowers my impression of the whole work.
I was pleasantly surprised by ST: Strange New Worlds, I expected a shizburger but overall it felt more like "old Trek" than anything since Early Next Gen, if a bit uneven. I'm reserving judgment until we get about halfway through the next season to see how far it distances itself from the trainwreck that Discovery became.
@@feralhistorian I'm assuming you passed on Picard? It was even worse cuz here are characters you knew and mostly liked and they were shat upon relentlessly.
@@danschneider7531 My wife and I made fun of it over drinks all the way through. Season 3 had some good things, but several plot points made no sense and they still don't quite grok what Trek is. Season 1 was a wasted opportunity and season 2 . . . that was shit.
I'm almost impressed with the way they were able to systematically deconstruct and destroy almost every key character from '90s-era Trek. It's a master class in how to ruin a franchise that's been successful for a half-century.
nice stargate patch! will you do a video about stargate some day?
just from my brief research into Rhodesia and their squad tactics, military tactics, and Kit would the Draka military be more affective if they used Rhodesian style tactics and kit? with maybe a bit more emphasis on Infantry Automatic Rifles aka a heavier rifle to be used in a light machine gun role? cause whenever I think of Draka I think of Rhodesia.
Your examples of military helmets don't go as high as is now common, at least for certain subsets of US forces. On those helmets the ears are completely unprotected as it is assumed you will be wearing a headset that both protects your hearing from gunshots and explosions but also allows radio communications.
Now i am very curious about this series of books. You shoukd give this lectures carrying an AK rifle...just for the hell of it.
also to add , the Draka fought not only native armies, Ottoman and Chinese armies (before WW2 1941) but also fought Austro Hungarian , and the Japanese and Soviet armies in 1920s to 1930s border wars, there is a mention of border wars with the Japanese in China (the Japanese conquered most of China by end of WW1). except for western China which was conquered by the Draka), the Japanese army by the 30s was armed with a copy of the Draka Holbars T-5 semi automatic rifle. I think possibly chambered to 7.7 mm. (as was the Japanaese rifle OTL Arisaka type 99) and the Soviets armed with the Tokarev rifle which again is a copy of the T-5(chambered to 7.62mm). And I think the T-6 had its debut in the border wars with the Soviets and Japanese.
Have you read the Drakas! short-story collection? It's written by multiple authors but edited by Stirling and covers some the periods only alluded to in the appendices. Whether it's strictly speaking canon is debatable I suppose, but it has some pre-Marching Through Georgia stories that really flesh out some of the background.
I'm planning to cover one or two of them sometime down the line. Have to do new Draka content every once in a while.
@@feralhistorian Yes I did, I read Drakas when it first came out back in 2000 , it was OK, liked some stories other not so much. I was expecting Stirling to release a prequel to Marching through GA named the Laughter of the Guns(set in WW1) and Unto us a child(Sequel to Drakon). alas we got Drakas instead. but I did have talks with SM Stirling through forums and he fleshed out the world somewhat. Id like to see how the Drakon earth timeline turned out after the epilogue at the end of Domination(all three books together iwth an original prologue and epilogue).
@@johnwalsh4857 Yes, Drakas! was uneven. Some good stuff though.
I was looking forward to Laughter of the Guns back in 2000 or whenever it was. A sequel to Drakon less so.
What forum was your talk with Stirling and is it still archived? I'm interested in what he said about it.
@@feralhistorian yah that talk was like 20 to 25 years years ago, I will have to look for it. I believe I talked to him in one of those google alternate history forums. I believe Sitrling had a problem with Jim Baen and swore never to go back to Baen Books . I believe Stirling would like to do more Draka but unfortunately Baen books hold hte rights to it.
@@feralhistorian by far, the best story in that collection was the retelling of _Marching Through Georgia_ via the viewpoint of a Draka Flashman
The Draka helmet looks weirdly similar to those Fedayin Vader helmets.
I had the impression the Draka were super fit, at least equal to Delta or Navy Seals. Super fit, smart, and motivated soldiers remove a lot of problems from a unit. That's just the way it is. BTW, you've seen this before in history and comes in cycles. The knights of the Middle Ages were few in number compared to the imperial roman Army. Heavy horse could ride down a mere sword armed infantry unit. Look at 1940. A simple Japanese tank could run wild over simple Chinese infantry. Conversely, in 2024 a tank is a target for a drone.
The Draka Citizen Force would be the fastest army to adapt or ditch ther gear in wartime. Their ethos is praticallity in battle over all. Their R&D would be closer to actual veterans than other armys if nothing else because the children of the ruling elite are not kept out of actual combat.
The heart of the franchise Draka world is; Competent Evil.
Real world Evil systems seem to have fatal flaws built into their systems.
Sometimes it can be symbols of success given prority over actual success, or ideology that is to inflexible to adopt simple improvements. It can be a protected and corupt privilaged ruling class that never has to account for failures.
It can be a dishonest government culture that hides mistakes and falsifes reports toadvance careers.
Or it can be trible rivalries that make team work subordinate to individual tribal gain.
Also, authoritarian societies tend to not like innovative thinkers too much. Such people tend to come up with ideas that destabilize the authoritarian structure.
It's not always the case but it is frequent. As a result, the more authoritarian the society the less technological and scientific advancement it comes up with. Most of "their" advances usually come from spying on more progressive cultures and stealing their ideas and toys.
Did they stop for pecan pie? ^_^ I prefer colorful paisley to drab camouflage, but then I'm not on a battlefield or in a jungle.
I gotta prod you to talking about books I actually read instead of books I ought to read.
Also
THE BERZERERS
The books I've currently got in the pipeline are The Sparrow, Dies the Fire, and A Fire Upon The Deep. They take forever because I have to do a bunch of illustrations.
But all suggestions are noted on the ever-expanding list of possibilities.
@@feralhistorian _The Sparrow_ I'm unfamiliar with; _Dies the Fire_ is unsurprising, as if memory serves that's another Stirling book (and series or two,) and _A Fire Upon the Deep_ I've actually read.
The ideas of _AFUD_ are interesting; I just have problems with the antagonist.
The helmet reminds me of a sallet style
The T6 looks more like the M27 IAR or FG 42 than an M249 based on the presumed use. Also, reliable detachable box magazines were very difficult to manufacture with 1930's technology. That is one of the reasons the U.S. went with a clip feed for the Garand. Belts make more sense for anything that isn't a pistol until mid 1940s.
Also consider the legacy of the forces:
M1 Garand, same 30-06 as the 1903 and 1917. Add rate of fire and increase capacity. Everyman a rifleman, aimed fire for every shot but now you have more total volume.
Kar98k + MG42, a man is only as useful as his group element. Machine guns fire, rifles maneuver. Don't forget your grenades either.
PPS, PPSH, AK47. Every man a submachine gunner. Use artillery to break up the enemy, close to 200 meters and hose them down.
T6 every man and assault man. You are in the bush, where is the enemy? Recon by force. Draka are always outnumbered in their society, ammo is cheap, citizens are expensive.
If you have an angry mob and an 8 shot semi auto, 20 people rush you down and you get 3 rounds off. You have 75 rounds on tap, gonna need a bigger mob.
The Holbars T6 looks more like a Galil to me. As opposed to the AKM.
Definitely not an AKM, everything hinted at about Draka industry suggests the T6 has a milled receiver. I'm pretty sure the inspiration is the South African R4, which is mostly a Galil clone, which is itself essentially just an AK variant.
Cool
Also, do you have a patreon or something like that, yet?
I haven't set anything up yet. I think if the channel gets to 1000 subscribers I'll start trying some monetization and generally taking the whole thing more seriously.
My view is that the Draka Jannisary forces use the same uniform as the citizens corps but the weaponry is more downgraded. at the start of their entry into WW2 in summer 1941, the Jannissary forces were mostly equipped with teh T-5 semi auto rifle . Again with the view, the citizens get the best equipment and the Jannissaries the hand me downs and as noted in the books , 14 million T-5s were manufactured up until the 1930s. I can see the Jannissary forces which consitute about 75 percent of the Draka military were equipped this way until near the end of the Eurasian war, were they were transitioning to the T-6. Even during the pacificatfion wars post Eurasian war , large portions of the Jannissary forces were still equpped with the T-5.
I'd imagine the Janissaries would have a more basic uniform, but of a similar design. No built-in kneepads and lacking some of the niceties of the Citizen uniforms. Essentially Janissaries being issued gear equivalent to other standard WW2-era armies while the Citizen forces get gucci-gear with built-in knee-pads, carefully designed stretch panels, and higher quality fabric to stand up to longer use in the field reflecting that the Citizens are an elite force.
@@feralhistorian Yep that one too, the Jannisarries get the hand me downs and simpler cheaper made uniforms. Also Im thinking if being a Draka officer in the Jannissary corps is actually a demotion, like for Draka who pissed off the wrong people.
@@johnwalsh4857 Being a Janissary officer wasn't a demotion. It was a test. Go too "native," show too much love for your cannon fodder troops, and you will never be promoted further up. A Citizen Force officer existed to preserve his unit, a Janissary officer existed to expend it.
@@djolds1 that one too, however the Draka officer is also expected to lead their jannisaries by example. live fight and die with them. Yep the draka jannissary officer has to guide and maintain discipline and stability in the Jannissary corps while not going native.
@@johnwalsh4857 I suspect the von Shrakenbergs are an extremist aberration in Draka society. Too honorable. And note, the janissary officer vS who killed the original Marya in UTY essentially died for - being too decent. In Draka terms, anyway.
that rifle looks more liek a galil than a ak. But i get it.
True (I even used a Galil as reference, as I suspect the cover artist did as well) but a distinction to be filed under _I say Kalashnikov, you say Balashnikov . . ._ It's essentially the same design.
@@feralhistorian lol fair enough sir. Sorry i thought the picture you posted was from the book or something. I was like thats clearly a galil! Hey man i really love your videos. I have them on a loop as i go to bed.
Regarding helmets... When fighting a technically inferior opponent, it soon enough becomes clear that you're fighting guerrillas. And good luck fighting guerrillas with a steel pot like that on your head. You'll never hear anything with those helmets on. The Germans changed the shape of their helmets a bit during the war - because a sentry on post couldn't hear well with a steel “bell” on his head covering his ears - they added special slits to solve that problem. Draka helmets as they are pictured is 10 times worse. They would make soldiers practically deaf...
Didnt Soviet and US officers wear riding boots? Like patton on the eponymous film cover.
I have to disagree about the reason helmets are changing shape and size. It has little to do with comfort or improving vision, but more to integrate ear protection and communication gear into the helmet. Everybody wants their own set of Peltors (or similar brand).
Russians are using boots again, though many will be soviet stock rather than the leather WW1 or officer versions. Different footwear suit different terrain, these boot were swapped out for sneakers in Afghanistan, but in Ukraine mud and sharp objects are a major concern and veterans advise in the field manuals to use high boots with a decent resistance to piecing.
Hand to hand is favoured in certain cultures, notably Americans are one of the most extreme on the side of firepower and marksmanship, though marksmanship at least is commonly marched basically all European militaries retain substantially more enthusiasm for the bayonet, in short just because the Americans thought swords were silly (they weren't, at all, a least if you understand the context of fighting in China, and basic human psychologically responses to being charged with one) the Japanese carried them anyway. Personally I'd criticise the bayonet as too light, and much more of a tool, but I'm British, the designs and fighting styles favoured are equally cultural, one could criticise the Cossacks for using swords that didn't have guards, by they were their swords, and they knew how to use them (and they really did, during the civil war massively numerically superior red forces were regularly humbled by men who had little or no ammo, and often even the swords themselves were in short supply).
Criticise the machete as being too light, not the bayonet, autospelling strikes again.
T6 looks like a Galil.
Forgotten weapons has a video on why drum magazines are a bad idea. Basically to heavy bulky expensive and not very reliable.
Holbar? You mean that Galil with an MG42 drum and the mechanisms of an AR18?😂😂😂
The helmet feels more like a thinner russian altyn
i see them as mixures on izrael and rhodezia...
I see them as a mixture of Israel and Rhodesia*
IDK why a good comentator wastes time on such a bottom of the barrel "sci fi" (using the term loosely) series. This Draka crap is right up there with Harry Turtledove for literary quality.
I see where you're coming from Adam.I haven't read the Draka stuff, but found Harry Turtledove in my late teens/early 20s and bounced right off it. I thought it was dross (and nothing has changed my mind since).
But after being given a pretty bad history book (by a loving family member who hadn't read it) in my late 30s I had a slow realisation. That junk history book got me thinking, it got me motivated to find much better books on bits history I wouldn't have looked into otherwise. Those were two good things from a terrible book that I never open again.
I've had the same thing since, from fiction too. If I can stand finishing it,and it gets me thinking afterwards,well that novel will never be reread or recommended to anyone,but it's done me a better turn than most media.